Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
We want leaders to do the right thing when tested, and we want and believe we will rise to the challenge when the moment presents itself. But the current way we learn how to act ethically in those critical moments doesn't always translate or cause us to think we can do it effectively and confidently. Why not? How can we better prepare ourselves and our leaders when the moment arises? This is that episode.
Giving Voice to Values (GVV) is an innovative approach to values-driven leadership development in business education and the workplace. Drawing on actual experience and scholarship, GVV fills a long-standing critical gap in the development of values-centered leaders. It's not about persuading people to be more ethical. Rather GVV starts from the premise that most of us already want to act on our values, but that we also want to feel that we have a reasonable chance of doing so effectively and successfully. In this episode we'll explore how to raise those odds.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Mary C. Gentile, PhD, is Creator and Director of Giving Voice to Values (www.GivingVoiceToValuesTheBook.com), launched with The Aspen Institute and Yale School of Management and hosted at Babson College for 6 years, now based at UVA-Darden. This values-driven leadership curriculum has been piloted and/or presented in over 1,500 sites globally and has been featured in Financial Times, Harvard Business Review, Stanford Social Innovation Review, McKinsey Quarterly, etc. Gentile is a consultant, speaker and author on GVV. She was formerly the Richard M. Waitzer Bicentennial Professor of Ethics at UVA Darden (2016-2022) and was previously at Harvard Business School (1985-95) and Babson College (2009—2015). She holds a B.A. from The College of William and Mary and Ph.D. from State University of New York-Buffalo.
Gentile's publications include: Giving Voice to Values: How To Speak Your Mind When You Know What's Right; Can Ethics Be Taught? Perspectives, Challenges, and Approaches at Harvard Business School (with Thomas Piper & Sharon Parks); Differences That Work: Organizational Excellence through Diversity; Managerial Excellence Through Diversity: Text and Cases, as well as cases and articles in Harvard Business Review, Stanford Social Innovation Review, Academy of Management Learning and Education, Risk Management, CFO, BizEd, Strategy+Business, and others. Gentile was Content Expert for the award-winning CD-ROM, Managing Across Differences (Harvard Business School Publishing).
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LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
www.gotowerscope.com
www.GivingVoiceToValuesTheBook.com
#GivingVoicetoValues, #TheHardSkills #LeadershipDevelopment #LeadershipValues #ValuesDrivenLeadership
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
In this episode of The Hard Skills, Dr. Mira Brancu explores the challenge leaders face when trying to act on their values in high-pressure environments, introducing Dr. Mary Gentile, creator of Giving Voice to Values (GVV), a global leadership framework that equips professionals to speak up ethically and effectively. The conversation delves into how values-based leadership differs from traditional ethics by focusing on shared, internal values like integrity, justice, and compassion—universal concepts that can transcend personal preferences and cultural divides. Leaders are encouraged to not only reflect on their core values but also strategically communicate them in ways that resonate with their audience, leveraging their personal strengths and emotional intelligence to drive ethical influence.
In this powerful segment of The Hard Skills, Dr. Mira Brancu and Dr. Mary Gentile dive deep into why even well-intentioned professionals struggle to act on their values—highlighting fear, futility, unconscious bias, and the misconception that speaking up must always be confrontational. Dr. Gentile explains how her Giving Voice to Values (GVV) framework empowers leaders by helping them recognize their personal communication strengths and use them to voice values-based concerns more effectively and authentically. The conversation also introduces GVV’s seven core pillars—including self-knowledge, normalization, and reframing rationalizations—which provide high-achievers with actionable tools to align ethical clarity with strategic influence.
In this segment of The Hard Skills, Dr. Mira Brancu and Dr. Mary Gentile explore how leaders can develop the emotional resilience and strategic communication needed to navigate today’s polarized and ethically complex environments. Gentile highlights the power of normalization—recognizing that values conflicts are a regular part of leadership—and urges professionals to prepare in advance with thoughtful, values-aligned responses rather than reactive decisions. Her Giving Voice to Values framework empowers leaders to act authentically, calmly, and compassionately, building what she calls “moral muscle memory” and encouraging a shift from whistleblowing to proactive, values-driven influence that fosters trust, respect, and cultural transformation within organizations.
In this final segment of The Hard Skills, Dr. Mira Brancu and Dr. Mary Gentile address one of the most pressing challenges for leaders today: how to prioritize values in the face of overwhelming demands and complex, often conflicting organizational pressures. Gentile offers a powerful reminder that while leaders can’t do everything themselves, they can empower others, delegate with intention, and most importantly—communicate clearly about what the organization stands for and who is leading each effort. She emphasizes that leadership today requires not just taking action, but creating a culture where ethical dialogue is invited, respected, and followed through with transparency.
00:00:36.400 --> 00:00:56.560 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills show where we take a deep dive into the most challenging soft skills required to navigate leadership, uncertainty, complexities and change today and into the future. I'm your host. Dr. Mira Branku, psychologist. Leadership consultant and founder of Towerscope.
00:00:56.740 --> 00:01:25.900 Mira Brancu: Now, today's episode was inspired by a desire for me to share more, not just about how to navigate organizations, but also the current societal stressors. Because, you know, in our own organizational experiences, it's a microcosm of our experiences of society right? And many people, whether they have formal leadership roles, or those who want to find their voice to act on their values, find it difficult to speak up and use their voice when the time comes.
00:01:26.170 --> 00:01:52.369 Mira Brancu: and there's a disconnect between what we feel is right to do in the moment, and whether we feel we can do it effectively and successfully. And this is where our guest comes in to help us learn more about how this skill can be learned. So whether you're a leader managing a team or simply trying to support your colleagues. This conversation is for you. So let me introduce our guest today, Dr. Mary Gentilly.
00:01:52.370 --> 00:01:58.390 Mira Brancu: She is creator and director of giving voice to values which
00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:13.539 Mira Brancu: we'll also refer to as Gvv. Which was launched with the Aspen Institute and Yale School of Medicine. Sorry Management, previously hosted at Babson College for 6 years, and now based at Uva. Darden.
00:02:13.570 --> 00:02:36.179 Mira Brancu: giving voice to values is a values driven leadership, curriculum that has been piloted and or presented in over 1,500 sites globally, and has been featured in Financial Times, Harvard Business Review, Stanford Social Innovation Review, Kinsey Quarterly, and others. Dentilly consults. She speaks, she writes on Gvb. She was formally
00:02:36.340 --> 00:03:00.300 Mira Brancu: the Richard M. Waitzer, Bicentennial Professor of Ethics at Uva Darden, and was also previously at Harvard Business School and Babson College. She holds a BA. From the college of William and Mary and a Phd. From the State University of New York, Buffalo, which, by the way, Mary, I. Went to Binghamton University, also part of the Suny system in upstate New York. You were a little farther.
00:03:01.530 --> 00:03:13.629 Mira Brancu: I heard her keynote at this year's society of Consulting Psychologist Conference, and I just felt like I had to invite her on the show. So welcome, Mary.
00:03:13.880 --> 00:03:16.480 Mary Gentile: Thank you so much, Mira. It's a pleasure to be here
00:03:16.480 --> 00:03:22.250 Mira Brancu: Absolutely, very excited to have her on the show also, right next to me. I have her book
00:03:22.530 --> 00:03:23.150 Mary Gentile: Right.
00:03:23.150 --> 00:03:42.079 Mira Brancu: Here, let me for those of you who are watching. I'm gonna make sure that you can see this. Yes, giving voice to values all right. I also have it on my kindle. So I really did enjoy this, the talk, the book, all the things. But I want to start with
00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:51.049 Mira Brancu: some shared language. Right? We talk about ethics, we talk about values, you talk about, you know, values based leadership. Tell us more about how you define it.
00:03:51.980 --> 00:04:07.310 Mary Gentile: Sure. So you know, my work began, and most of my professional career has been in Mba programs, business schools, as you mentioned. And so when we were talking about these kinds of issues in business schools, we call it business ethics.
00:04:07.310 --> 00:04:26.549 Mary Gentile: And when I started talking to wider audiences to business practitioners. But even talking to business school students, the language of ethics wasn't necessarily the most effective language. I think when people think about ethics, it's usually a code of ethics. It's a set of rules. It's a set of guidelines.
00:04:26.550 --> 00:04:55.250 Mary Gentile: It's often an external set of rules and guidelines, and what I really wanted to do was to help people tap into something more aspirational, something that came from within them. And so I started using the language of values which is really most psychologists and philosophers, and even biologists, have identified that there are a certain set of values that are pretty much universally shared by human beings. And so I wanted to talk about that
00:04:55.860 --> 00:05:13.179 Mira Brancu: Oh, that's really interesting. So I'd love to hear more about the sort of commonly held values, because the 1st thing as you were talking. The 1st thing that came up in my mind is, you know, when when you have ethics, it's written down as standards, right. Everybody has to agree like these are the ethics in our profession.
00:05:13.210 --> 00:05:26.250 Mira Brancu: and when we talk about values it feels a little bit more nebulous because we, you and I can have different values. So when you talk about the sort of like more common values that we all hold, what are some of those
00:05:26.580 --> 00:05:55.280 Mary Gentile: Sure. Sure. Yeah, you know, values is one of those overdetermined words. It can mean many different things. And so I often have to explain what I'm talking about. You know, we can talk about the core values, what philosophers tend to call hyper norms. And those are these set of moral values, ethical values, virtues even that tend to be universally shared. And those are things like integrity, compassion.
00:05:55.280 --> 00:05:56.860 Mary Gentile: justice.
00:05:56.860 --> 00:06:17.519 Mary Gentile: The good news about this is that there is this set of core values that are universally shared. It does give you a way of communicating across lots of other differences. The other news about it is that it's a really short list. And so when you're actually trying to communicate with people about values based
00:06:17.590 --> 00:06:41.849 Mary Gentile: choices, you want to think about first, st does the issue that we're disagreeing upon actually rise to the level of one of these core values? Or is this more just a matter of my personal preference, my style. I like country. You like city, that kind of thing. So you want to make sure. Is it something we can agree to disagree on? Or is this one of those issues that rises to that high level. And if it does.
00:06:41.980 --> 00:07:07.930 Mary Gentile: then you want to think about a way of communicating about it that's going to connect with the way your audience sees that value. In other words, don't use the language that comes explicitly, or only from your religion or your political beliefs or your sort of social context. Try and find that sort of shared language to be able to help them. See how we we connect on this issue
00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:14.452 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I think these are really good points. So I well, the 1st question I have is,
00:07:15.660 --> 00:07:23.319 Mira Brancu: how do we know if we're disagreeing on a point that actually has something to do with a higher order.
00:07:23.530 --> 00:07:35.500 Mira Brancu: Value versus, just like a simple disagreement. Is that something that people have a challenge doing, and if so, how can they sort of like attend, or you know, or tease that apart
00:07:36.010 --> 00:07:56.359 Mary Gentile: Yeah, I think sometimes people do have some trouble making that distinction because we have emotional reactions when we disagree right? And and often when we have that emotional reaction, we we think of it as coming from a place of core values, or, or, you know, right and wrong.
00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:56.840 Mira Brancu: Right.
00:07:57.186 --> 00:08:03.080 Mary Gentile: And so when we actually work with people with giving voice to values, it's it's really a.
00:08:03.380 --> 00:08:31.170 Mary Gentile: it's a framework for helping people develop the skill, the confidence, and the likelihood of voicing their values, acting on their values and doing so effectively. When we do that, we actually work people through a kind of protocol of questions. And the 1st question we always ask people is to think about what is the value that's at stake here for you that there is this kind of self-reflection that has to happen there?
00:08:31.527 --> 00:08:38.680 Mary Gentile: And that also addresses the question I mentioned earlier, which is, and is this a value that rises to that
00:08:38.679 --> 00:09:01.420 Mary Gentile: level that we really need to find agreement on? Or is it something that we can agree to disagree on? And in a business context. This is really very relevant, because there's lots of things I'm going to disagree with with the employee or the manager who sits next to me, and some of them may be things that are hugely important to me, but have absolutely nothing to do with my work together with them.
00:09:01.420 --> 00:09:24.860 Mary Gentile: and so we may have to agree to disagree on those issues. But when it comes to a core value that has to do with the impact of the work that we're doing on our stakeholders, on our customers, on our colleagues, on our shareholders, etc, on our communities. Then those are the ones that we need to think about how to really act on effectively
00:09:25.090 --> 00:09:27.447 Mira Brancu: And I really appreciate that because
00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:45.846 Mira Brancu: it is important to know when one of these values is touched upon versus. Not because we get like you said we get very defensive. How dare you call me blah blah? How dare you? You question my value or my integrity, or my, you know
00:09:46.230 --> 00:09:47.276 Mary Gentile: Or intelligence.
00:09:47.800 --> 00:10:07.009 Mira Brancu: Intelligence. My expertise all of this stuff, and knowing like when it starts hitting on a value that is also work related is, the most important place to start that makes perfect sense. Yeah, and then, also being able to connect to other people's language, we use a lot of jargon.
00:10:07.190 --> 00:10:12.320 Mira Brancu: That is something where we think it's obvious to other people.
00:10:12.680 --> 00:10:31.370 Mira Brancu: We use it, you know, in our own, you know, lives or whatever. And then we we bring it in, you know, to somebody else. And we think they're gonna completely, automatically understand. And that is not the case. That is not the case. And knowing, like what are the parts of our language that are jargony to other people, is another piece of like sort of breaking it down right
00:10:31.710 --> 00:10:42.639 Mary Gentile: Right? Right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean in, when we talk about giving voice to values and the procedures that we work people through to give them the opportunity to rehearse and to practice, and to prescript.
00:10:42.640 --> 00:11:04.020 Mary Gentile: One of the things that we do is actually think about. How am I most skillful, comfortable, likely to express myself? When have I been effective at communicating with people in the past, even if it had nothing to do with values or ethics? Just how am I better at communicating? Am I better in writing? Am I better by asking questions? Am I better in debate?
00:11:04.020 --> 00:11:04.470 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:11:04.470 --> 00:11:26.499 Mary Gentile: You know those kinds of things, but we also ask people to think about who you're trying to influence. When have you ever seen them change their mind. What kinds of arguments, what kinds of approaches, resonate for them? Because you might want to be thinking about ways to enlist that knowledge so that you can be more effective. I have a little story about that. If it's okay to share it
00:11:26.500 --> 00:11:27.100 Mira Brancu: Yes.
00:11:27.100 --> 00:11:52.089 Mary Gentile: Yeah. So you know the work I've done to create this approach, this pedagogy, if you want to call it that in curriculum involved. 1st of all, interviewing lots of people in organizations at every level, from very junior to very senior, and I gathered a lot of stories, and I remember one of the stories I gathered was from a woman. She was working in a corporation. She was a very high, level C-suite level.
00:11:52.090 --> 00:12:16.349 Mary Gentile: and she told me the story about one day being in a meeting with the CEO and the other C-suite executives, and the CEO was proposing a course of action that he was very invested in. He clearly wanted to do it. She thought it was ethically problematic and problematic in other ways as well, but he was so invested and everyone was going along with it, and she was somebody who said.
00:12:16.350 --> 00:12:26.920 Mary Gentile: you know, she had strong views, but she felt like she wasn't very good at communicating them in that kind of a situation. It would have been combative. It would have been her against the room she just
00:12:26.920 --> 00:12:51.009 Mary Gentile: and so she silenced herself. She said nothing, and the group took the decision. They were going to go forward. This was at the end of the day. She knew this was a bad idea, and she was trying to figure out what to do. So she said she she went home and she thought about it, and she thought, I am most effective when I make a data driven argument that is well thought out and structured, and probably in writing.
00:12:51.100 --> 00:13:02.240 Mary Gentile: When have I actually seen my my CEO make a decision, you know, change his mind, make a decision. He tends to respond to really compelling stories, often about a competitor.
00:13:02.630 --> 00:13:26.309 Mary Gentile: their success or failure. So she said. She went home, and she wrote the well-structured argument that she knew she could make in a memo. And then she this was back in the day of phone calls rather than email or text. She left a voicemail for her, CEO, and she said, Look, I know we took a decision. So she acknowledged that, but I have some information that I really think you ought to see before you act.
00:13:26.588 --> 00:13:32.439 Mary Gentile: So I just need 10 min of your time tomorrow morning. So she went in the next morning with her memo.
00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:57.359 Mary Gentile: but she had come up with a compelling story about why he should read her memo. She didn't think she could come up with a story that would gather all her ideas. It was just not something she was skillful at, so she felt like. What she did is she played to both her strengths and his predilections, and in fact, she was effective at changing his mind. I don't say these things will always work. But I am asking to. People
00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:05.020 Mary Gentile: think about it in this way, you know. Don't just get passionate, you know. Get get clever and intelligent about how you communicate
00:14:05.020 --> 00:14:17.580 Mira Brancu: That's beautiful, that's beautiful. I have a story about that I'm going to share, but we're reaching an ad break when we come back. I'll share the little story. And also I want to sort of expand this out to, you know.
00:14:17.610 --> 00:14:47.209 Mira Brancu: Continue to explore this issue of like we have a gut feeling we want to do right. And then we get stuck. Because I love that about your book, about how to get unstuck. So you are listening to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branco and our guest, Dr. Mary Gentilli, author of Giving Voice to Values. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern. At that time you can find us live streaming on Linkedin Youtube several other locations@talkradio.nyc. And we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:16:30.060 --> 00:16:58.519 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Mary Gentilli, of giving voice to values, and before we went to the ad break you were sharing the story that reminded me of my own story of speaking up, and I feel like there's 2 kinds of people. There's people like me who in the beginning of my career was politically clueless, and
00:16:58.750 --> 00:17:19.979 Mira Brancu: I did speak up to a leader at the highest level of an organization, and I shared my concern about something I thought was unethical, and what happened after that was lots of conversations without me about me, and I ended up being shut out of lots of decision, making opportunities, and labeled as clueless
00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:38.207 Mira Brancu: and it took me a long time to learn the political, savvy part of this. And actually, it's it's what you know led me to write Millennials guide to workplace politics and the workbook like once I learned this. I wanted to decode it for everybody else, you know. But
00:17:38.790 --> 00:17:45.210 Mira Brancu: it it. You spoke a little bit to that, like understanding your audience, and what, how they will receive.
00:17:45.320 --> 00:17:57.540 Mira Brancu: Yet that information well is part of it. There's a second group of people that you know, want to do the right thing. Imagine doing the right thing, or are very much, you know, like,
00:17:58.020 --> 00:18:02.539 Mira Brancu: find these values important, and then find themselves stuck
00:18:02.870 --> 00:18:14.710 Mira Brancu: acting in the moment. And that is how we see tragedies, atrocities, human rights, violations, bullying other bad behavior happening because so many people get stuck
00:18:14.910 --> 00:18:35.159 Mira Brancu: and not sure how to intervene. And I think your book really speaks to that as well. And so I'm curious like for that group of people. Why or how does this disconnect happen? What makes it so hard to act on the things that we
00:18:35.270 --> 00:18:37.170 Mira Brancu: believe they're important to us.
00:18:37.770 --> 00:19:05.009 Mary Gentile: Right? Right? Well, there's lots of reasons for that. And a lot of people have done research on that. A number of the reasons that are really at the top of the list are fear, fear of retaliation of some sort, or fear of futility that I'm going to do all this, and it's not going to make a difference, anyways, and I might end up suffering for it. And why would I put myself out there if it's not going to make a difference. So those are 2 of the most common
00:19:05.010 --> 00:19:05.460 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:33.949 Mary Gentile: Then there's also things that are a little more nuanced. We know stuff from behavioral ethics, from psychology research. Now about how we react to values conflicts. And we know, for example, that in many circumstances, perhaps sometimes in most circumstances, we tend to react automatically, even emotionally, kind of unconsciously. And we do what we think is possible, and then we rationalize post hoc. Why, it was
00:19:33.950 --> 00:19:58.820 Mary Gentile: the right thing to do, or why it was the only thing to do the only thing that we could do. And we're not doing this because we're trying to be evil. It's kind of a self protective measure because you don't want to live in that space of cognitive dissonance where you know something's wrong, and you do it anyways, right? So our brains protect us from that. And then there's also other things where there's biases, decision-making biases where we.
00:19:58.820 --> 00:20:19.340 Mary Gentile: we are vulnerable to obedience to authorities. We tend to think well, they must know better, right? Or they have the experience, or we're vulnerable things like false consensus bias where we assume. Well, everybody else must think this. You know a group. Think you know, all of these things tend to
00:20:19.340 --> 00:20:26.329 Mary Gentile: react. And then one that's very relevant for the work I do with giving voice to values is that we think there's only one way to react
00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:27.970 Mary Gentile: only
00:20:27.990 --> 00:20:40.370 Mary Gentile: to act is to speak up, you know, to shake your fist and stamp your foot and speak truth to power. Kind of be a martyr, and a lot of what I'm trying to talk to people about is that there are many ways
00:20:40.370 --> 00:21:03.430 Mary Gentile: to get your viewpoint out there, and there are ways that are actually going to make it easier, not only safer for you, but easier for the person you're trying to communicate with, to understand and to hear, and to maybe be persuaded to be more effective at this. And so what the work I do with giving voice to values is all about, is actually giving people the opportunity to identify
00:21:03.430 --> 00:21:12.300 Mary Gentile: all of those different strategies and skills and approaches, and which ones they personally are most likely to use and to rehearse them and practice them
00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:27.119 Mira Brancu: I love love that, and I'm resonating so much because you know it, I would say in the last 5 to 10 years it's been kind of a a journey for me as well to figure out. What is my voice? That's natural.
00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:27.710 Mary Gentile: To me
00:21:27.710 --> 00:21:43.519 Mira Brancu: And I played around with being a loud advocate, and and that felt so disconnected and inauthentic for me. But I wanted to be that, but I just couldn't, and that would hold me back right. And then I played around with.
00:21:43.730 --> 00:21:59.330 Mira Brancu: am IA cheerleader? Am IA support person, am I, you know a quiet disruptor and insurrectionist, am I, you know, like, where? Where does it feel right? And when that is aligned it's so much easier to act
00:22:00.010 --> 00:22:12.308 Mira Brancu: right. And I'm hearing that that is part of your curriculum is trying to figure out first, st like what's important to me. What do I want to act on, and then second is
00:22:12.930 --> 00:22:19.950 Mira Brancu: You know. Where am I? Most likely? Or how am I most likely to act in the moment? How do I know that about myself
00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:24.729 Mary Gentile: Absolutely absolutely. I have another little story about that, if you like.
00:22:24.730 --> 00:22:25.250 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:22:25.250 --> 00:22:54.679 Mary Gentile: I was doing a consulting job where I was asked to work with a major financial management firm in New York City, and they were concerned. This was a number of years ago. They were concerned about representation in their workforce, and they felt like they were, you know, pretty much homogeneous in terms of their employee base, and they wanted to reach out to a broader base, and they weren't sure why they weren't attracting that kind of talent. Why they weren't finding that kind of a talent.
00:22:54.680 --> 00:23:03.200 Mary Gentile: So I was doing. I'd been asked to do a set of interviews with the very senior Level partners in this organization to try and learn some things about how this could be addressed.
00:23:03.230 --> 00:23:28.790 Mary Gentile: It seems sort of interesting in today's climate. But anyways, I was doing these interviews, and I was interviewing with a very senior partner in the firm, and he was clearly annoyed at having to talk to me. You know his meter was running, and this was a waste of time, and he was kind of sitting there with his arms crossed, and so I started asking my questions. I had my little tablet list of things.
00:23:28.790 --> 00:23:54.749 Mary Gentile: and you know he just kind of exploded at 1 point, and he just said, This is bullshit. Excuse me, but he said, This is ridiculous, and I said, Well, can you say something more? And he said, well, he said, this is crazy, he said, you know, a few years ago I hired the 1st African American male to work in my team that our firm had had ever hired at that level, and it didn't work out, and I had to let him go, and I've been paying a price ever since.
00:23:54.750 --> 00:24:19.069 Mary Gentile: And I said, Oh! And I thought, Well, I know all the answers to this. I know I could say, Well, if you hired a white guy and he didn't work out. Would you never hire another white Guy, you know, or did he really not work? Did did he actually get the support he needed? I knew all the questions to ask, but I knew this guy was not going to respond to those he was just. You know, he was just resistant. So I just
00:24:19.110 --> 00:24:42.690 Mary Gentile: I. My style is to ask questions. And so I said, Well, can you tell me what price you paid, you know, and I was really curious. I wasn't arguing with him. It wasn't confrontational. It was curious, and and it was really interesting, because his face just changed. It. Just sort of, you know. The color went out of his face. He kind of leaned back. He opened up his body language like he was relaxing, and he just said.
00:24:42.710 --> 00:25:01.789 Mary Gentile: Wow, he said, you know I've been telling that story for 2 years, and nobody has ever asked me what price I paid, he said. They always just assumed, oh, yeah, you paid a price, you know, and he said, and you know what else. Now that I think about it, I don't think I paid a price, and he said, but I really thought I had, and once we got to that
00:25:01.790 --> 00:25:02.540 Mira Brancu: Oh, my goodness!
00:25:02.540 --> 00:25:32.360 Mary Gentile: It was like. Then we could talk, you know, and we could talk about the pros and cons of what we were trying to do and how to handle this. And but it was really interesting to me that you know. Sometimes you have to figure out that style. That was the style that worked for me. If I had tried to argue with him it would not have worked for me. I would not have been effective, and it certainly would not have worked for him. You know, he was one of those combative kind of guys. So you know, I think that's another illustration of what you're talking about.
00:25:32.360 --> 00:25:38.310 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I love that. And you know, I think what it, what it took is for you to recognize about yourself.
00:25:39.024 --> 00:25:48.359 Mira Brancu: Let me lean into my strengths of asking, you know. Open ended questions with non-judgmental stance. Right? It got there right
00:25:48.670 --> 00:26:13.639 Mary Gentile: Yeah. Yeah. And and with the giving ways to values approach, I mean, we have 7 pillars. I don't have to go into them all but one of them is self-knowledge and alignment, and the idea is to understand how you are most effective and then frame the challenge you're facing in a way that plays to your strengths. When I would talk to very risk-taking, aggressive, assertive people, they would do this very differently. You know I have stories
00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:31.149 Mary Gentile: of how they've done it. And then I would talk to people who were introverts, or risk averse, and they would do it in a very different way, and if they felt like they had to be one or the other, it wouldn't work, you know, the assertive, aggressive Risk Taker if I told them to be cautious and more conservative.
00:26:31.150 --> 00:26:46.800 Mary Gentile: They'd say, Yeah, right? But it's not who I am. And if I told the introvert and the risk averse person, they need to have moral courage, they say, well, that's great, but it's not who I am. And so we needed to find ways to frame the challenge you're facing so that it plays to your strengths
00:26:47.070 --> 00:27:00.499 Mira Brancu: I would love if you could give an overview of the the all 7 pillars you gave us one which is self knowledge and alignment, you know, framing what are the other ones?
00:27:00.890 --> 00:27:24.129 Mary Gentile: Well, the 1st one is values. And we actually talked about at the beginning of this, podcast you know, which is that we're looking at the values that tend to be shared. You know that we're looking at that high level set of values rather than a totally cultural, relativistic kind of approach or a total Universalist approach. We're looking for the places where we can find that common ground and then framing things in a language that communicate.
00:27:24.130 --> 00:27:33.589 Mary Gentile: The second one is what I call choice, and it's simply that people often don't believe they have a choice. You know, we know from research that people tend to
00:27:34.280 --> 00:27:39.110 Mary Gentile: over, overemphasize or to exaggerate negative outcomes.
00:27:39.110 --> 00:28:03.810 Mary Gentile: and to under emphasize positive outcomes. To think the positive was an exception, and that the negative is the norm. And and people tend to do this for evolutionarily effective reasons. Right? We want to protect ourselves. But the thing is, it means that we limit our choices. So the second one is just to understand that we probably have more choices than we think. The 3rd one is purpose, and what I mean by that is that you want to think about your
00:28:03.810 --> 00:28:21.009 Mary Gentile: define, your purpose in your career, in your workspace in the broadest sense, you know, not to get caught up in this quarter's results. But to really try and think about what am I trying to do here? Why am I in this industry, for example? Why am I in this functional area, whether it's
00:28:21.010 --> 00:28:48.000 Mary Gentile: audit or whether it's marketing or whether it's operations, you know, to define yourself in that broader sense, and then to appeal to that sense of purpose in the individuals you're speaking with, because you'll sort of be raising them to a different level of thinking about the issues. Then the next one is normalization. And the idea there is that people tend to think of these values conflicts as the exception. You know, you're working along doing your job.
00:28:48.090 --> 00:29:05.909 Mary Gentile: and this your boss comes and tells you to do something, and you're like a deer in headlight, and often people will just kind of put their heads down, do what he or she says, and try and get past it to get back to work. And what we've tried to understand is that these kinds of conflicts are the work that
00:29:06.280 --> 00:29:21.889 Mary Gentile: that values. Conflicts are a normal part of life. They happen every day, multiple times a day at work in our families, in our relationships, and if you normalize them, you kind of sort of bring that sense of exception and stress down.
00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:42.750 Mary Gentile: You can sort of approach them in the way that I talk about, which is like rehearse, prescript practice get more comfortable. Understand how you're effective. So normalization. The 5th one is self-knowledge and alignment. I already explained that it's playing to your strengths. The 6th one is voice which is simply to understand that
00:29:42.750 --> 00:30:03.940 Mary Gentile: voice is a metaphor. There's lots of ways to do it. It can be a conversation. It can be a memo. It can be asking a question. It can be talking to someone who's going to talk to someone who's going to talk to the decision maker. It can be trying to get someone into a decision making team, who, you know, brings a different perspective. There's lots of different ways to voice.
00:30:03.940 --> 00:30:12.860 Mary Gentile: And then the final one is what we call reasons and rationalizations, which is that in my work, gathering many, many stories about how people encounter values, conflicts.
00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:27.000 Mary Gentile: We hear the same kinds of reasons or rationalizations for why you can't act on your values or ethics over and over, and they're predictable. And they're very powerful. But they're not bulletproof.
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:44.309 Mary Gentile: but they're very hard to respond to in the moment. And so the idea is to identify a lot of them and to practice. So we hear things like it's standard operating procedure in this industry or this part of the world or this organization, or it's not material. It's not a big enough deal to worry about.
00:30:44.310 --> 00:30:57.909 Mary Gentile: or it's not your responsibility. It's above your pay grade, or it may be a little bit, Dicey, but don't you feel loyalty to your company, or your boss, or your clients, or your colleagues?
00:30:57.910 --> 00:31:12.600 Mary Gentile: So we hear those all the time. Those are the fours we hear often there are some others, of course, and so we've actually worked with people to think about. How could I start to address these? So, for example, if they're saying it's not a big enough deal to worry about.
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:40.430 Mary Gentile: That's a kind of that sort of gives you the answer. It's like, so that's why it's really easy to address it. Now, you know, if we wait till it's a big deal there's going to be a lot more cost involved for the organization, for whoever was harmed by this behavior for yourself, you know all of that. And so you just start to find ways to kind of twist these a bit and reframe them so that you can actually be heard. So those are the 7 pillars
00:31:40.430 --> 00:32:07.499 Mira Brancu: Thank you for sharing all of those. They're brilliant. We're reaching an ad break when we come back. I'd love to dig into a couple of them where I just wrote a couple of notes or reactions and would love to hear more about those you are listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Mary Gentilli, author of giving voice to values as well as the person who launched the curriculum we air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. And we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:33:39.630 --> 00:33:47.090 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and our guest today, Dr. Mary Gentilli, of giving voice to values
00:33:47.250 --> 00:34:07.639 Mira Brancu: and Mary just shared with us her 7 pillars that go into the curriculum of how to sort of train ourselves to become better at giving voice to values. And there's a couple that I would love to dig into more. And the 1st thing that came up which I really loved was around normalization
00:34:07.870 --> 00:34:20.990 Mira Brancu: that the you know the idea that conflicts you know, are the work. Not not to avoid getting, you know, back to work. And this actually reminds me of the things that we do.
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:45.350 Mira Brancu: We were doing with our own children, you know, which is that a lot of parents try to overprotect their children from sort of difficult interactions and challenges. And our kids, you know, have come home from an early stage sharing something wrong that they witnessed right, and they felt uncomfortable with. And
00:34:45.650 --> 00:34:49.900 Mira Brancu: you know our whole goal has been you know.
00:34:50.030 --> 00:35:02.729 Mira Brancu: Yes, we like try to help them think it through. But in our head we're training them for real life because it only gets harder and more difficult and more challenging. So you better have the skills and be ready to have
00:35:03.070 --> 00:35:22.530 Mira Brancu: a lot. It sounds like in some ways. This curriculum helps people catch up to that, you know. If they didn't have a chance to practice constantly, you know, doing these things, that this is a way to sort of go back to those like. What do you do with all the feelings you have when when something feels off
00:35:22.530 --> 00:35:48.879 Mary Gentile: Right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's funny you should use that analogy because I find that often when I'm sharing Gbv with people, even though it's with a corporate audience. Some of their some of their 1st things that get triggered are to think about their families, their children, and how they're how they're raising them. But the the idea of normalization actually came to me from an interview I was doing with a gentleman he was.
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:59.840 Mary Gentile: He worked for a firm that was involved with a lot of mergers and acquisitions right? And his job was often to be the one who would go. You know those deals often take
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:24.049 Mary Gentile: many, many months, you know, to work out and his his job. He was often going out and building relationships with the CEO and the Cfo. Of the organizations that were going to be acquired as they negotiated the deals, and he told me the story. He said that he had been spending a few days with the CEO and Cfo. Of a company that his firm was about to acquire. They'd been working on this for almost
00:36:24.050 --> 00:36:52.759 Mary Gentile: the year. They were near the end of the transaction, and it was one of his last visits with them. They'd spent a couple of days together, and they were all at the airport, having a glass of wine before they flew off into various directions, and the CEO and the Cfo. Said to him, Okay, and they've become friends over the course of the year. And they said, Okay, so tell us what's really going to happen to us. What's going to happen with us? And you know. He said
00:36:52.780 --> 00:37:15.470 Mary Gentile: he knew that he had a responsibility not to share any information of that sort, that he may or may not have had, but he felt a relationship with these guys. He also didn't want to alienate them. At this point of the deal he was trying to figure out what to say. So I said, Well, what did you do? And he said, Well, Mary, he said, I lied, and then he paused, and he said instinctively, I lied.
00:37:15.470 --> 00:37:30.270 Mary Gentile: and then he said, but then I went home, he said, and I thought about it, and I thought if I keep doing this kind of work, and I really like this work, he said. I'm going to get asked something like that every time, you know, it's going to come up over and over and over again, so I can just lie every time.
00:37:30.270 --> 00:37:51.580 Mary Gentile: or I can spend an hour or 2 and just sit down and figure out what would be an honest answer that still respected my fiduciary responsibilities and all of that. And so he said, he just came up with a little script for himself, where he would basically say, you know, even if I knew the answer to that, I wouldn't be allowed to share it. But what I can tell you
00:37:51.580 --> 00:38:08.260 Mary Gentile: are some things that you can be doing that based on my experience, are going to put you in the best possible position. And then he said, he tried to have some substantive suggestions for people, and he said, the thing is, he said, it's not exactly what people would be asking for. It wouldn't be what they wanted him to tell them.
00:38:08.260 --> 00:38:21.740 Mary Gentile: but it would help them feel that they've been treated respectfully. They've been given something of value, and it could also maintain the relationship. And he said, You know, the thing he realized is that
00:38:21.740 --> 00:38:40.310 Mary Gentile: this is a normal part of doing business, he said. This isn't an exception, and that's why he thought, why not prepare for it, and have a response that is both honest, but also useful and respectful to my audience? And that's where the light bulb kind of went off for me about this
00:38:40.540 --> 00:38:46.059 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Oh, what an amazing story! And what an elegant solution! I love elegant solutions like
00:38:47.375 --> 00:38:53.040 Mira Brancu: I'm curious. This triggered something for me about. You know.
00:38:53.640 --> 00:38:57.749 Mira Brancu: right now, there's a lot of leaders that want to do the right thing.
00:38:57.910 --> 00:39:05.731 Mira Brancu: and they're very fearful of retaliation or the repercussions or the impact on their families or
00:39:06.670 --> 00:39:27.140 Mira Brancu: the impact on their employees, if they do the wrong thing, or, you know, don't capitulate, you know, to to things that they think is wrong, but they're trying to protect one group versus another. All of this stuff is really, really challenging. I would love to hear any words of wisdom that you have, using your giving voice to values curriculum like, how might you apply it?
00:39:27.380 --> 00:39:33.478 Mary Gentile: Yeah. Yeah. So I think in terms of of you know, thinking about when to act
00:39:33.860 --> 00:39:34.210 Mira Brancu: Right.
00:39:34.210 --> 00:39:44.450 Mary Gentile: There's a couple. There's a couple of things that I think about. You know. The 1st thing is, there are some issues that are just so important. That we really.
00:39:44.450 --> 00:40:07.119 Mary Gentile: you know, we can't ignore them. I think one of the ways I think about that is, if they are the precedent to some sort of immediate action that's going to have an impact as opposed to people are thinking something through. So sometimes you just need to act. One of the things I tell people with giving voice to values is that
00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:22.919 Mary Gentile: you know we we often feel like people will hear the expression giving voice to values, and they'll think it's about whistleblowing. And actually, I created Gbv because I kept seeing all the research on whistleblowing. And how, 1st of all, it was often too late.
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:24.190 Mary Gentile: It's already been done
00:40:24.520 --> 00:40:41.209 Mary Gentile: The person who blew the whistle often suffered some sort of ramifications from blowing the whistle. I mean, there were all these reasons why it wasn't the best solution. And so what I really wanted Gvv. To be about was about changing the conversation in the organization
00:40:41.210 --> 00:41:05.600 Mary Gentile: so that you don't necessarily get to that point where blowing the whistle is necessary that people start to talk about these things early on when they're starting down a path that's going to lead to potential real dangers. And so that was, you know, one of the things that I try and talk to people about is, you know, the risks are lower and the chance of having an impact is higher if you actually do that. So that's 1 thing.
00:41:05.600 --> 00:41:09.250 Mary Gentile: But another thing is, I also think about.
00:41:09.250 --> 00:41:33.969 Mary Gentile: you know, and and also because you're doing it when it's smaller. The stakes are lower in terms of everything involved, but also to think about. You know if you have a good approach, you know, use it even if it doesn't feel like this is the most important issue in the world. If you think you have something really useful. Use it because it's going to both build your habit and your your sort of muscle memory. I call it a moral muscle memory.
00:41:33.970 --> 00:41:44.750 Mary Gentile: Build your moral muscle memory to be able to do this. It also helps people understand that you actually have some interesting and and useful ways of approaching these kinds of values conflicts.
00:41:44.750 --> 00:41:56.250 Mary Gentile: and and it makes it more likely that you will do it again. And then I also ask people to think about, are you? Are you responding from a place of of calm, a place of of competence.
00:41:56.250 --> 00:42:25.520 Mary Gentile: and a place of compassion? Because I think it's not. That doesn't necessarily mean that if you're not calm you should never do anything. But it might mean you might need to wait a minute. You might need to go back and think about what's the most effective approach. Or if you don't feel competent, that doesn't mean that you should never act. It might mean you need to find someone to work with you, to find an ally who actually has whatever skill or insight or expertise is necessary. And if you're not feeling compassionate.
00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:49.350 Mary Gentile: Perhaps you need to do a little self reflection about that. But you know, I like to ask people to think about those 3 things. So a lot of this is about building the habit, building the muscle memory building, the skillfulness, understanding that there are so many different ways to voice and act on your values. It's not just going and telling your boss off. That's probably not the most effective strategy.
00:42:49.440 --> 00:43:12.100 Mary Gentile: all of that said, and that would usually be my answer. If I were doing a podcast like this a few years ago, all of that being said, I think we're at a moment in history. Right now, we're at a moment in our lives right now, where we really also need to be thinking about. There are some things that we might have used as norms for making decisions. For, like the most effective way to act
00:43:12.100 --> 00:43:34.800 Mary Gentile: that aren't really working anymore. You know, we're at a place right now where there's such a degree of polarization. There's so many threats that we didn't actually expect that it's certainly in our capitalist system in the United States that that we certainly didn't expect that we'd be dealing with that. There's changes in terms of the way laws and regulations are being
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:42.580 Mary Gentile: pursued and enforced that are having an impact on businesses. So I think that all of that is going on right now, which means that
00:43:42.580 --> 00:44:09.090 Mary Gentile: it probably is a time when you also need to be spending some serious time having conversations with your employees, with your C-suite, your management, and even with your consumers. To begin to understand, you know, we may need to act differently than we would have in different times, that our normal forms of behavior are not necessarily
00:44:09.330 --> 00:44:14.319 Mary Gentile: designed to cope with some of the kinds of challenges that we're dealing with right now.
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:25.180 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. These are all really good points. One of the things. There's a couple of things I want to highlight and pull out from what you said. One is how you define voice
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:54.779 Mira Brancu: is, you know, so flexible and allows it. It's almost like you could replace it with act. Take any action right? Just take any action, and it will give voice. You're you're speaking through your actions. And those actions can be different for different people. All you gave lots and lots of examples of how you can take an action, and that does feel a lot more empowering than taking no action whatsoever which feels very disempowering right now, especially
00:44:55.425 --> 00:45:02.829 Mira Brancu: and then the other is, you know, to sort of think about like
00:45:03.010 --> 00:45:20.120 Mira Brancu: what kind of person. What kind of leader do I want to show up with in the world today what is needed? What do I want to see that I'm not seeing, or I need more of. And how can I offer that to the world through my own actions? And you know you describe some of them
00:45:20.240 --> 00:45:29.710 Mira Brancu: around, you know, changing the conversation, showing up as calm, competent, and compassionate. We need that. Why don't you offer that right?
00:45:30.250 --> 00:45:36.099 Mira Brancu: That right? I can offer that and then, you know, a lot of sort of like
00:45:36.621 --> 00:46:00.639 Mira Brancu: recognizing that now girding resilience will also require building community getting, you know, support systems in place, being a little bit more uncomfortable than your usual, and all of those things might need to be added into sort of like the the planning and thinking about how to show up right now in in particular, and I could sort of share, like.
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:22.900 Mira Brancu: you know, myself, the the thing that I'm trying to do. Really, a lot more of is a lot of those things that that you shared, you know. Just trying to to bring kind of a voice of calm, a voice of reason, a voice of support. Compassion whenever I can. You know. All of those things. So you know.
00:46:23.050 --> 00:46:31.649 Mira Brancu: I think there's a there's a lot like you said we have choice. There's a lot more choices that we haven't thought through that we actually have. And I love that that part of it
00:46:31.650 --> 00:46:38.100 Mary Gentile: Exactly. Exactly. I love what you just laid out there, and I think one of the things that you were pointing out is that
00:46:38.210 --> 00:47:01.250 Mary Gentile: when you act in the way that you can act, playing to your strengths, playing to your skills. All of that. You're also setting an example. You know, you're kind of opening the path for other people to act in their way. One of the exercises I created when I 1st designed Gvv. Is, I called it, starting assumptions for giving voice to values.
00:47:01.300 --> 00:47:23.070 Mary Gentile: And there's a set of things that you know in order to do this, and in order to do it effectively. These are assumptions that we start from. And so there are things like, I'm not alone. But then you follow. I'm not the only one who feels this way, but then you follow that by acknowledging that. But if I don't say or do, or somehow express it.
00:47:23.080 --> 00:47:52.309 Mary Gentile: nobody else will know that I feel this way, and so you won't know that you're not alone, and they won't know that they're not alone, you know. And so we have this set of assumptions like that and others are, you know, this is worth doing, and you know, lots of assumptions. But then, at the end, when I would use this as an exercise I'd give this set of. I think it was like 12 assumptions, and then I would ask people whether it was in a company or in a classroom to think about. Do you think these are true?
00:47:52.631 --> 00:48:06.789 Mary Gentile: You know? Do you think it's true that it's important to act on your values? Do you think it's true that you're not the only one, do you think? And and what was interesting is that the outcome of that exercise would be that
00:48:07.210 --> 00:48:36.049 Mary Gentile: they're true. If you make them true, if you act that way, and if you don't act that way, you make them untrue. And so the thing is that it's a matter of choice. Again, you know, it's like, by acting as if these are true. I create a context wherein these things can happen. But if I act as if I am the only one, I'm going to ensure that I'm alone. You know those kinds of things. So I think it's you know this is a it's 1 of those. It can be a virtuous circle or
00:48:36.870 --> 00:48:38.609 Mary Gentile: non virtuous circle.
00:48:38.610 --> 00:49:05.300 Mira Brancu: Very, very good. Yeah. Great points. I have one more question for you when we come back from the ad break, and then we will start sort of closing out, sharing kind of what people can do as next steps. You are listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and our guest today, Dr. Mary Gentilli, author of giving voice to values. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. You could find us@talkradio.nyc. And we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:50:42.510 --> 00:51:07.590 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Mary Gentilli, of giving voice to values. And, Mary, you have shared so many different ways that we can think about how to step into well, giving voice to values, how to really act, take action on the things that are most important.
00:51:07.730 --> 00:51:12.230 Mira Brancu: And my one remaining question for you is.
00:51:13.180 --> 00:51:21.942 Mira Brancu: there are so many people's values being violated, or feel like so much is being thrown at us right now. And
00:51:22.540 --> 00:51:32.920 Mira Brancu: you know. I feel like I could put my energy in a million different directions right now, a lot of people feel this way. Right? We can't
00:51:33.210 --> 00:51:34.619 Mira Brancu: act on everything.
00:51:35.390 --> 00:51:38.019 Mira Brancu: So for
00:51:38.140 --> 00:52:02.680 Mira Brancu: you know, especially like within organizations that are being impacted in multiple ways, right? Whether like funding is being taken away and or now, now you have to, you know, fire and riffs. And now you need to focus on removing. You know these words and not those words. All all of this stuff. There's lots of things going on right that that require organizational response.
00:52:03.300 --> 00:52:05.110 Mira Brancu: How can leaders
00:52:05.576 --> 00:52:15.919 Mira Brancu: prioritize and stay focused? If if they're feeling like they can't possibly give voice to all the values, how do they make that kind of final decision
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:21.860 Mary Gentile: Yeah. Yeah. So I think one of the things that's really important to do is to realize that
00:52:22.060 --> 00:52:43.940 Mary Gentile: each of us individually cannot do everything. But that doesn't mean that we can't support everything. And so I think, especially when you're in a position of leadership. You know, a lot of it has to do with identifying who has a particular investment, and perhaps expertise, or or commitment, or
00:52:44.040 --> 00:52:52.730 Mary Gentile: innovative approach to a particular issue, and and ask them to kind of be the voice or the face of some of these things. It's
00:52:53.060 --> 00:53:08.189 Mary Gentile: it's not that all of us have to do everything, because then we'll do nothing. Well, but the thing that's important is when people do that kind of sharing. Sometimes they don't make it explicit. And I see this happen a lot that
00:53:08.458 --> 00:53:26.459 Mary Gentile: you know people will think it was my idea that that she would handle this, and that he would do this, and and you may even have talked to them about it. But if you haven't made that clear to the if you're in a leadership position, I'm thinking now, if you haven't made that clear to your organization. People think that you're not caring about that
00:53:26.460 --> 00:53:26.880 Mary Gentile: may
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:42.139 Mary Gentile: don't understand that. And so I think one of the most important things for a leader is the communication part? Is the part about expressing? What is it that we, as an organization, really care about? How are we going to approach it.
00:53:42.140 --> 00:54:03.270 Mary Gentile: and then making it clear that you are working through other people as opposed to feeling like you have to lead on every single issue. So I think, you know. Often there's this understanding. We can find allies, but we don't actually make it explicit that that's what we're doing. It's 1 of the things that I learned when I 1st started sharing Gvv.
00:54:03.270 --> 00:54:28.199 Mary Gentile: Organizations would ask me to come in and do trainings and programs, etc, and they would often it was the senior leaders who would say, You know, we know about values. We're okay. Do this for our middle management, our lower level managers, you know. And eventually people started realizing. No, maybe we need to talk about this at the senior level, too. But you talk about it a little differently. So instead of the rehearsal and the practice, and the pre-scripting
00:54:28.200 --> 00:54:39.509 Mary Gentile: speaking up, it might be about speaking across to your to your partners, right to to your C-suite colleagues, who you need to be able to have a collegial relationship with them.
00:54:39.822 --> 00:54:47.940 Mary Gentile: Or it might mean having to think about, how do I create a context, a culture, where I make it clear that I actually invite people
00:54:47.940 --> 00:55:12.879 Mary Gentile: to raise these kinds of issues, and then I think one of the most important ones is for a senior leader is, how do I hear it when someone brings it to me? And you can do the same kind of rehearsal and prescripting and practice around how you hear it, as you do about how you raise it. And that's another place where people often don't communicate. It's never good news. When someone brings this to you. And so the person who
00:55:12.880 --> 00:55:30.039 Mary Gentile: that you know they don't necessarily get thanked. They don't necessarily feel like their message was welcome. They don't necessarily hear any follow up, even if you do follow up in good faith, you know. So again, this part about from a leadership role, a huge part of it is communicating that
00:55:30.040 --> 00:55:37.410 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, brilliant, brilliant. Mary, how can people find out more about your work?
00:55:37.720 --> 00:55:59.289 Mary Gentile: Sure. Sure. So there's obviously a website which you're putting up. It's just giving voice to valuesthebook.com. And you'll find there links to the book. And there's also a lot of follow up books, you know, applying this to to medicine or to law or to governance. There's even one about young adult education. You know, they apply this approach in different contexts.
00:55:59.290 --> 00:56:08.139 Mira Brancu: But then there's also links to the curriculum. There's Moocs, there's videos, there's interactive online cohort based programs, all kinds of things.
00:56:08.140 --> 00:56:08.500 Mira Brancu: Wow.
00:56:08.500 --> 00:56:12.469 Mary Gentile: And and you can email me, which is also on that website
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:33.379 Mira Brancu: Awesome. That's A wealth of resources available here today. Thank you so much for sharing all of this incredible, useful, timely information and audience, what did you take away from today? And more importantly, what is one small change you can implement this week, based on what you learned from Mary?
00:56:33.380 --> 00:56:49.890 Mira Brancu: Share it with us on Linkedin and@talkradio.nyc, so we could cheer you on the hard skills is also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, twitch, apple spotify Amazon Podcasts all over the place. If today's episode resonated for you share it with a colleague.
00:56:50.170 --> 00:57:14.130 Mira Brancu: leave a review, and if you're looking for more personalized support with leadership or team coaching, you could reach out to Mary Gentilly as well as you can reach. Out to me towers, go towerscope.com. Thank you talkradio dot mic for hosting together, we will navigate the complexities of leadership and emerge stronger on the other side. Thank you for joining me, Mary. Really love having you
00:57:15.130 --> 00:57:15.750 Mary Gentile: Thanks.
00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:17.229 Mira Brancu: Take care! Everybody!
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