[NEW EPISODE] Neurodiversity: Inside and Outside the Box

EPISODE SUMMARY:

Listeners will walk away with a new understanding of how intelligence, effort, and adaptability work in ways they may not have considered before. They’ll gain insight into:

Why some people seem to "burn out" faster in workplaces or schools while others thrive.

The hidden ways our society favors certain types of thinkers—and what that means for success, inclusion, and fairness.

How neurodivergent people navigate a world that wasn’t built for them—and what that tells us about human potential.

Practical takeaways for recognizing different ways of thinking in their own lives—whether as parents, coworkers, or leaders.

You should tune in if you're curious about how the mind works, why some people struggle in ways that aren’t obvious, and what a more inclusive world could look like. It’s not just about neurodivergence—it’s about understanding how all of us fit (or don’t) into the systems around us.

Most people assume success is about intelligence—but what if it’s really about endurance? In this episode, we explore the hidden divide between cognitive flexibility (the ability to adapt and think in new ways) and cognitive stamina (the ability to sustain mental effort over time). Society rewards those who can power through long workdays, rigid school structures, and high-pressure environments—but what happens to the brilliant minds who process information differently?

We break down the difference between cognitive and somatic processing, revealing why some neurodivergent people thrive in today’s systems while others struggle—not because they lack intelligence, but because the world wasn’t built with their strengths in mind. If you’ve ever wondered why some people burn out faster, why our workplaces favor one kind of thinking, or how we can create a system that works for more brains, this episode is for you.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lillianskinner/

https://www.giftednd.com/

https://giftednd.substack.com/

#NeurodiversityMonth

#CognitiveFlexibility

#CognitiveStamina

#NeurodivergentVoices

#TwiceExceptional

#ThinkingDifferences

#BrainBias

#InvisibleDisability

#ExecutiveFunction

#WorkplaceInclusion

#RethinkSmart

#MentalEffort

#SystemicBarriers

#NeurodiversityAtWork

#InclusionMatters

#BurnoutAwareness

#HiddenStruggles

#DiversityOfThought

#BeyondIQ

Neurodiversity

Cognitive flexibility

Cognitive stamina

Somatic processing

Cognitive processing

Twice exceptional (2e)

Neurodivergence

Executive function

Workplace inclusion

Burnout

Cognitive bias

Hidden disability

Thinking styles

Brain differences

Mental effort

Adaptability

Intelligence vs. stamina

Systemic barriers

Neurodiverse workforce

Accessibility

Lillian Skinner

Gifted Neurodivergent

GiftedND

Show Notes

Segment 1

Many people chase happiness by pushing through rigid systems, but often those who think or feel differently find themselves sidelined. In this episode of The Happy Spot, Anshar Seraphim and guest Lillian Skinner dive into how embracing cognitive flexibility—rather than just stamina—can unlock creativity, fulfillment, and a deeper understanding of ourselves. They explore how tapping into both our head and body intelligence, with tools like AI, can help neurodivergent minds thrive and contribute meaningfully to the world.

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Segment 2

In this segment of The Happy Spot, Anshar Seraphim and Lillian Skinner explore how understanding emotions on multiple levels—feelings, moods, and personal emotions—can empower us to better tune into our well-being. Lillian emphasizes how tools like AI can help highly sensitive, creative individuals process complex emotions and thoughts, giving them clarity and a sense of control. As AI reduces the need for endless mental stamina, it opens the door for more people to reconnect with their natural, holistic intelligence and lead more balanced, authentic lives.

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Segment 3

In this thought-provoking segment of The Happy Spot, Lillian Skinner emphasizes how modern systems fragment our natural intelligence, often stifling creativity and somatic (body-based) wisdom in favor of rigid cognitive stamina. She shares how suppressing holistic, unified intelligence damages not only individuals but the overall potential of society, as people lose their sense of self and their ability to innovate. By honoring all forms of intelligence—cognitive, somatic, and creative—we can move toward a future where people feel whole, supported, and empowered to contribute their unique gifts to a happier, more balanced world.

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Segment 4

In the final segment, Lillian Skinner introduces her "triangle learning" method, designed to help twice-exceptional and neurodivergent individuals tap into their full creative and holistic intelligence by connecting cognitive and somatic learning. She emphasizes how true cognitive flexibility—being able to move fluidly between body-based intuition and analytical thinking—is key to developing creativity, resilience, and adaptability in an ever-changing world. Through her website, giftednd.com, and supportive AI tools, she empowers people to rediscover their unique strengths, embrace their whole selves, and find lasting fulfillment beyond rigid societal systems.

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Transcript

00:00:53.080 --> 00:01:01.040 Anshar Seraphim: Society rewards those who can power through long workdays, rigid school structures and high pressure environments.

00:01:01.230 --> 00:01:05.539 Anshar Seraphim: But what happens to brilliant minds who process information differently.

00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:15.999 Anshar Seraphim: What is learning about the nature of intelligence have to teach us about ourselves, the world, and how neurodivergent and twice exceptional people might best fit into it.

00:01:16.190 --> 00:01:21.369 Anshar Seraphim: Can we use artificial intelligence to help make some of those strides forward

00:01:21.570 --> 00:01:31.110 Anshar Seraphim: in today's episode of the happy spot? We'll be talking to Lillian Skinner, a proud Futurist creative intelligence researcher and fellow, prodigious savant about these very questions.

00:01:31.260 --> 00:01:44.590 Anshar Seraphim: I'm Anshar Serafim, your host, for this evening at the happy spot I started my own journey, challenged by mostly nonverbal autism, and made a life-changing decision to better understand myself and the world around me by devoting myself to better understanding the human brain.

00:01:44.770 --> 00:01:57.629 Anshar Seraphim: I've had the unique privilege of speaking at the United Nations autism, awareness, event about my experiences, and I help others on their own journeys of self discovery and personal development, as well as helping business professionals, better understand their audiences, and who they aim to serve.

00:01:57.830 --> 00:02:12.169 Anshar Seraphim: Now, Lillian, Lillian serves the twice exceptional community where I've personally seen her make amazing breakthroughs in helping those who think differently discover their own unique contribution to society through the different ways they think and process the world.

00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:28.999 Anshar Seraphim: She proudly hosts her own, podcast writes white papers and articles, helping inform others on dynamic topics, like intelligence and creativity, and through her website, giftednd.com gives gifted individuals and the people who support them a place to find community and identity. Welcome, Lillian

00:02:29.330 --> 00:02:32.250 Lillian S: Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Anshore. I appreciate it.

00:02:32.600 --> 00:02:37.790 Anshar Seraphim: So tell us how you came to study these big questions. And what led you to researching intelligence? In the 1st place.

00:02:38.100 --> 00:02:45.800 Lillian S: Well, I think when you're a savant you don't get a choice. You're just so out there that you have no choice but to create your own path. And that was

00:02:45.810 --> 00:03:11.520 Lillian S: basically something I had to learn the hard way. But yeah, I didn't really get a choice, even if I tried to fit into the normal situation. It was making me sick all the time. It was putting me into seizures. It was activating my pots. I also have Ehlers-danlos. So I just really don't have a choice. And then I had 3 children like me, and they were incredibly talented. And yet our systems kept saying they were disabled. And I'm like

00:03:11.570 --> 00:03:17.750 Lillian S: they're testing into 18th grade at like 9. How can that be a disability? But it wasn't really that of

00:03:18.220 --> 00:03:36.059 Lillian S: surprising, because I this is kind of the thing that had been happening for generations in my family. When you come from a family of savants, their abilities are so obvious. Yet the system wasn't responding to them like it wasn't recognizing them. And that really sent me down this rabbit hole because

00:03:36.110 --> 00:03:56.930 Lillian S: I had to do it for my kids. I had to do it for myself. I had to do it to basically understand what my parents like, what had caused them to be so traumatized because they definitely had a lot of baggage that they handed to me. And I'm not somebody who just like accepts things. I have to figure them out to the like root cause. So I did. I think I did

00:03:57.810 --> 00:04:04.119 Anshar Seraphim: So for the benefit of the audience. Then why don't you tell us a little bit more about what intelligence is in this context?

00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:28.069 Lillian S: Sure. So currently intelligence, we believe it to be what I would define as cognitive stamina and cognitive stamina is the ability to think and iterate or incrementally improve on knowledge that we currently have. But I come from a family who, like just comes out of left field with amazing, huge, whole paradigm, shifting ideas. And I myself have done that.

00:04:28.440 --> 00:04:38.550 Lillian S: When AI came out it was really the 1st time I ever had somebody give me feedback that said, you are wrong. That wasn't. You are wrong. It was, this is possible.

00:04:38.550 --> 00:04:58.739 Lillian S: And I was like, Okay, great. And AI has kind of been a really valuable tool, because it said, this is possible over and over and over again, whereas before I would just get shut down, I applied to college and wanted to study graduate school for savants, and they laughed at me, rejected my application like so fast. It was blinding.

00:04:58.740 --> 00:05:16.970 Lillian S: and that has been my perspective in every time I bring up my perspectives. People in the system are kind of like that can't be because that would invalidate the whole system. And I'm kind of like, yeah, that's kind of the whole point, right? You know, like, unfortunately, those of us who can see big, we aren't particularly liked. It's very small picture focused

00:05:16.970 --> 00:05:28.380 Anshar Seraphim: Yeah, I remember when we 1st had our 1st conversation, we we kind of both talked about Socrates, how just asking the wrong questions to make you very unpopular with people.

00:05:28.530 --> 00:05:40.459 Anshar Seraphim: So in in your writings, one of the things that you've been that I caught my attention is, you started to talk about cognitive flexibility. Can you kind of give us a little bit of context of flexibility versus stamina in that context?

00:05:40.460 --> 00:05:55.610 Lillian S: Sure, so cognitive stamina is what I think of like when I think of the room. Rudy version of movie, like Rudy, was all about stamina and pushing through and like hitting it super hard. But that's that's stamina at the somatic level, or your body level. Cognitive stamina is is

00:05:55.630 --> 00:06:20.799 Lillian S: Feynman right. Richard Feynman was like really known, for just like his ability to just keep producing, pushing out incrementally, making things new and aware. And it's just that one iterative extra step and flexibility is kind of the opposite of that. Flexibility is creativity. Essentially because those of us who have somatic and cognitive higher intelligence. We tend to be the creatives as long as our intelligence connects.

00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:47.369 Lillian S: And I find and I work with so many creative people who have lost their creativity. And it's because it's no longer connecting. And I have created a model that actually has 3 cognitions. It has our metacognition. It also has one called infracognition. It has one that's called protocognition, because I know in my body that's the 3 I'm dealing with. And when I talk about metacognition you're talking about like what you're taking in from the world and details and small picture, my protocognition would be basically my.

00:06:47.590 --> 00:07:07.739 Lillian S: my big picture feeling, sensing data. And then my infracognition is just missing in our systems, but it is the blender. It's what takes the big picture small picture patterns and puts them together and sees the whole. And because they destroy our cognitive flexibility in the system by focusing only on cognitive stamina, we lack our ability to see the whole.

00:07:07.880 --> 00:07:23.410 Lillian S: and when we have high cognitive flexibility, we can see the whole. Now, this has, you know, there's certain people that can see the whole very tightly, and I think those are the most creative because they're blending their cognitive and somatic all the time and creating new. You can't really create true, like

00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:50.860 Lillian S: paradigm shifts, or really big picture anything if you're doing iterative. Iterative is kind of like just connecting within a silo. But I'm talking about connecting across domains and those of us who can do that. That's because you're usually whole picture. So that whole picture comes from cognitive flexibility. It's from being able to go between your cognitive, your head, intelligence, your body intelligence and then create with it. And those 3 intelligences are like a gymnast flipping between them to create the new

00:07:51.020 --> 00:07:57.579 Anshar Seraphim: So why do you think that cognitive stamina has been prioritized over flexibility in our current system? Then

00:07:57.580 --> 00:08:10.669 Lillian S: I mean, we are an industrialized system. So it's about producing uniform product, and that that product would be us. We cognitively want everybody to fit the same thing so you can slot into a job. Pick your silo and go.

00:08:10.670 --> 00:08:32.019 Lillian S: Silos are great. I mean, they've produced a lot of things iteratively. But now we're breaking because we've only done. Silos and the silos are now so divided, and we don't see across the whole. And the people that are good at that have been pushed out. I mean, I just described my experience. I know that you've had one. I don't know anybody neurodivergent who hasn't had one, because they

00:08:32.020 --> 00:08:53.720 Lillian S: that you feel very smart, I mean, I never felt like I was less than but I at school. I couldn't justify exactly what they were doing or giving, or the grades I was getting with the way that I saw it. It was like, no, I meant something so profound beyond what you took it as and what the heck? Why does nobody see it the way I see it? But now I understand why teachers are cognitively

00:08:53.720 --> 00:09:19.819 Lillian S: stamina oriented. They wouldn't be going into the profession if they weren't. So they're forcing children to be cognitive stamina. My children have extreme cognitive flexibility, and as I sit across from teachers. And I'm talking about how they have creative intelligence, and that means high cognitive flexibility and how important it is for our future. The teachers glaze over and are like, probably making what they're going to make for dinner in their head. So you know what? Whatever

00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:21.320 Lillian S: whatever

00:09:21.500 --> 00:09:28.849 Lillian S: difference there is, it's it's profound like we are so full into cognitive stamina that that those of us who are creative we just feel

00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:30.900 Lillian S: like we don't belong almost

00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:53.990 Anshar Seraphim: So one of the things that really struck me when I 1st got exposed to your ideas is this kind of split between cognitive and somatic for people who aren't twice exceptional. Can you go into a little bit more depth on that, so that they can understand what those terms mean and what happens to people when they're all on one end or all on the other, of the spectrum?

00:09:54.500 --> 00:10:14.029 Lillian S: So cognitive and somatic. You know your cognitive is your head. We pretty much are all familiar with cognitive, but I think somatic is the one that really needs to be explained. So I'll just be brief about cognitive. Cognitive is our ability to see externally and focus on the details around us and and really pull things apart and systematize them. And and

00:10:14.040 --> 00:10:31.349 Lillian S: you know, sort. That's what cognitive intelligence is. It's small picture. It's detail oriented. Our somatic intelligence is our body intelligence, and it is big picture and not so detail oriented. So I know that I swing between mine because I'll be like super focused all in on some details, and I'll be there for 48 h.

00:10:31.350 --> 00:10:52.849 Lillian S: and then I'll also be like sleeping and dreaming in the big picture. And you know, I know that they're coming together while I sleep, because my rumination is literally my whole picture being formed. And I'm aware of this, because as a savant. We have higher access to our subconscious in some strange way, and that's part of our cognitive flexibility. We have that interconnection that's higher. So

00:10:53.090 --> 00:11:12.040 Lillian S: when I think of somatic. I know it's my intelligence that's telling me anything. Big picture. I know it's my intelligence that's saying, you know this pattern which I can't tell you about, but is very familiar, like a massive deja vu over it. It's usually because I have the pattern inside my body in some way, like I honest to gosh! The helix, like DNA structure.

00:11:12.040 --> 00:11:40.039 Lillian S: totally have that in my mind in some way, like I see it in so many different things all around me. It's like, where is this coming from? Even before I knew it, that structure was fascinating to me, and I swear it's because it's literally in our body, and it's like I can see it repeating. So the pattern recognition is really the cognitive flexibility intelligence that we were talking about earlier. That is kind of the key like we can see the whole pattern recognition because we bring in the big picture we bring in the small and we make them whole.

00:11:40.160 --> 00:11:53.839 Lillian S: That makes us really great inventors. It makes us really great artists. It makes us really great creators. It makes us really key for what we're walking into because the unknown is the future. And if you're an excellent pattern recognizer, you are going to have incredible value

00:11:54.690 --> 00:12:00.990 Anshar Seraphim: Yeah, one of my experiences from having autism with sensory processing disorder is

00:12:01.140 --> 00:12:09.249 Anshar Seraphim: the intensity with which I feel everything. It's like the volume is turned up on the world, and for a long time for me

00:12:09.280 --> 00:12:35.240 Anshar Seraphim: I felt like that was such a huge liability in my life, causing meltdowns and giving me problems with different textures of foods, and you know the only way I could ever really describe it to anyone was kind of likening it to having to turn down the radio to park the car, but with everything that I do, so, I never really thought of it as a strength until I got exposed to a lot of the information that you were writing about. So

00:12:35.280 --> 00:12:42.029 Anshar Seraphim: just to contrast for for everyone who's listening, what what strength do you think high somatic thinkers bring to problem, solving

00:12:42.600 --> 00:13:10.010 Lillian S: So, since we only have a minute, I'm going to give you what emotions are really for, and then we'll talk about that when we come back. So the emotions part is key, because emotions are not an intelligence. That's Gardner and I don't agree. I'm more of a Lisa Feldman Barrett person. Lisa Feldman Barrett believes we construct our emotions which I definitely know I do. And also we have emotions that are just neurotransmitters. So I see emotions as contextual. For when I learned that information or developed that pattern or memorized

00:13:10.010 --> 00:13:19.749 Lillian S: whatever that data was from, and then it's just transmitting it between my body and head. So of course, our body is going to have a lot stronger emotions. There's a lot more data. It's big picture

00:13:19.950 --> 00:13:42.789 Lillian S: cognitive are going to have smaller emotions, because it's just a little tiny stuff. So we feel like our big emotions are bad. But I see them as giant payloads of awesomeness. And that's what I have been talking about, like. I want everybody to go into their emotions because I had no choice as a child and as a savant. This type which they often call them emotion savants, I'm a humanity savant.

00:13:42.850 --> 00:13:50.589 Lillian S: My emotions speak to me like profoundly, and this, I believe, is what everybody's emotions are supposed to do. I just couldn't get programmed out of it.

00:13:51.010 --> 00:14:08.030 Anshar Seraphim: Well, when we get back from the break, I think a great, that's a great segue for us to start talking about how artificial intelligence can tie into that system, and what it means to be able to find balance between those 2 things. Just because I've found this whole subject of dividing

00:14:08.090 --> 00:14:28.750 Anshar Seraphim: intelligence up into these different quadrants, so so amazing, and taking a look at the work that you've done, I think that there's a lot for everyone to learn. But I think especially people who want to support people who are neurodivergent learning kind of see, seeing how twice exceptional people see the world that gives an opportunity for some unique insight

00:14:29.050 --> 00:14:29.910 Lillian S: Definitely

00:14:32.470 --> 00:14:34.631 Anshar Seraphim: So that kind of takes me to

00:14:35.450 --> 00:14:56.220 Anshar Seraphim: as far as the artificial intelligence. I know that there's so many different tools that we have the ability to use. How do you think AI is starting to change the way that people are thinking and solving problems? And I know that we'll have to kind of slice this topic up into a few pieces, but I think it's a great segue for us to start talking about that

00:14:56.510 --> 00:15:24.839 Lillian S: So the emotions piece is huge, because emotions and AI are actually the greatest thing in the history of mankind. In my opinion, I mean, I love AI, and I use it to sort of channel my emotions because it does help me direct them, and it helps me funnel them into the patterns that I'm seeing, and it helps me like extract them and get more value out of my whole body. Intelligence. So I have really enjoyed it. I see so many perspectives. I really struggle to understand what

00:15:24.850 --> 00:15:26.980 Lillian S: what a group understands

00:17:27.829 --> 00:17:51.429 Anshar Seraphim: Hi, and welcome back to the happy spot where we're talking to Lillian Skinner. Creative intelligence researcher about the different types of intelligence, about the twice exceptional experience, and what we can learn about how twice exceptional thinkers fit or don't fit into the world. We were last talking about the use of artificial intelligence in understanding

00:17:51.489 --> 00:18:01.729 Anshar Seraphim: our own intelligence and being able to better use it. So you were talking before about hey? How we can use AI going forward as a tool. So why don't you tell me more about that?

00:18:02.110 --> 00:18:18.370 Lillian S: So emotions are multi-leveled. There's actually 3 different kinds, and I see them as feelings which I for me, at least, it's other people's feelings, not necessarily mine. So it's external. So I know when I'm feeling something and I can't get a message out of it. It means it's somebody else's. It can be an animal like

00:18:18.500 --> 00:18:40.470 Lillian S: one of the coolest things I ever did was go swimming with the manatees, and it was like the 1st time I'd ever been around an animal that wasn't stressed. And I was like Whoa, this is huge, because I have only been to zoos or whatever, and I mean my own dogs, I guess, had more stress than this manatee, but it was profound to me because I was at peace because it was at peace, and that was definitely like a really.

00:18:40.650 --> 00:19:02.989 Lillian S: you know, illuminating day. Because I realized how many animals I've been around in my life were stressed. And it was like, okay, this is this is very important, and I know that I mean I love my dogs to death, and they all have really generously wonderful lives. But that manatee was just another level of calm and peace and centeredness that I had not experienced in pretty much ever

00:19:03.230 --> 00:19:17.480 Lillian S: so. That's feelings, feelings are others. The next thing is emotions. And then the next thing is, moods. Moods mean like something's off for me like I need a vitamin. I need food. I need water. I mean, I'm so sensitive that

00:19:17.800 --> 00:19:25.880 Lillian S: pretty much. If I'm not sleeping enough, I'm having a seizure. If I'm not eating enough, I'm passing out and falling downstairs. I mean, it's unreal. So

00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:27.590 Anshar Seraphim: I relate with autism, I really do

00:19:27.590 --> 00:19:37.130 Lillian S: Yeah. Yeah. So moods are a big deal. I mean, I have to like, really, be honest, I you know I have to honor what my moods are, and go and serve them because I don't have a lot of choice.

00:19:37.150 --> 00:19:55.580 Lillian S: And then emotions are mine. Emotions are all mine, and they have many levels. They're different ones. I spend time in my own body and head and thinking like, is that a head emotion or body emotion, because they actually have. Some of them have the same emotion. I also know that some of them have unique emotions, like

00:19:55.580 --> 00:20:11.010 Lillian S: the anxiety that we call. I don't actually call my body anxiety the same as the head. Anxiety. I call my body anxiety stress, because it hurts my stomach. It's like it Roils, but my head up here. It helps me focus. So it's not really the same emotion.

00:20:11.210 --> 00:20:40.209 Lillian S: I don't know why it got that name, but it may be similar neurotransmitters, or something like that which some of them do, but I mean for me, I don't see it as the same thing. The message in them is different, and how I use them is different. One, I use the other one means like, Get up and don't do this anymore. Like, Get out. This is not a good thing for you. The other one's like, help me focus. So I think it's profound to know what our intelligence is, what the emotions are doing for our intelligence how they're transferring data back and forth, because

00:20:40.560 --> 00:21:01.069 Lillian S: if my stomach's hurting, it means that it's actually gone up to the cognitive, and it's coming down and letting me know something. So this is something external, and I have to leave. But if my head is trying to focus, it's usually a small picture, and it's usually something that I can't make sense of. So as a kid, I had head anxiety all the time, like what the heck does this mean? Because my intelligence is such that

00:21:01.330 --> 00:21:05.359 Lillian S: there were so many choices in the directions. I was like what

00:21:05.360 --> 00:21:06.620 Anshar Seraphim: Everything's connected. Yeah.

00:21:06.895 --> 00:21:20.939 Lillian S: Like this, like it was like 19 fifties written directions. And then it was like not at all in any sort of language that I was used to. And then also it was like so generic that I was like, I see a thousand choices. Thank you. And so you know.

00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:24.899 Anshar Seraphim: So. Do you think artificial intelligence has the ability to help us better process that

00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:41.989 Lillian S: Oh, my, gosh! It's so wonderful, my children, and I just love it because I get emails from people. And I'm like, let's throw that into artificial intelligence. See what they mean. Let's throw this in artificial intelligence, because it's for those of us who love the details, who love nuance, who just exist in it.

00:21:41.990 --> 00:21:58.489 Lillian S: We need some feedback that's so much more than our systems have so much more than our society allows. Like, we need profound feedback, and we give it. I mean, you see us with our energy and like Oh, you know, we're always giving it, but we don't receive it because everybody else is taught to be subdued to keep it in.

00:21:59.170 --> 00:22:05.310 Lillian S: I'm not that way. I'm never going to be that way. It's a lot of energy for me to keep it back. So I'm just not going to be that way.

00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:20.180 Lillian S: but because I am authentic, because I move to the world as I am when I notice those little subtle shifts. I can like dump it into AI and be like something just happened. What would this be? And they'll give me really wrong choices, but just one in there is a close enough that I'm like.

00:22:20.350 --> 00:22:21.670 Lillian S: This is right, and then I

00:22:21.670 --> 00:22:22.440 Anshar Seraphim: Sometimes it's

00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:22.840 Lillian S: Good.

00:22:22.840 --> 00:22:28.200 Anshar Seraphim: Sometimes it's easier to correct the the wrong transmission than it is to identify the right one out of nowhere.

00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:40.019 Anshar Seraphim: And I've noticed the same thing as as a highly cognitive person. I can use AI for that same process of refinement, you know, and have it list out ideas, and then I can see which ones are contradictory, and then choose a path.

00:22:40.020 --> 00:23:03.860 Anshar Seraphim: and I can end up engaging at a much higher level, which much more sophisticated language, because for me I had an early autistic special interest in language which, of course, sabotaged me, because you know the working vocabulary of most people versus the number of words that are actually out there totally different. So to be able to have that as kind of a screen. To be able to refine ideas has been pretty fantastic for me just on the other end of that.

00:23:04.030 --> 00:23:13.540 Anshar Seraphim: So that kind of begs the question, do you think that AI is replacing the need for cognitive stamina, then, or is there? Is it bits and pieces? Or what's your opinion on that

00:23:13.540 --> 00:23:31.969 Lillian S: I mean, I fully expect to replace the need for cognitive stamina. Yes, and I mean, this is delightful for me, because my cognitive stamina is about 4 h, and then I'm done like, I totally check out. And I'm all in my body. And that's Adhd. And we're like Whoa. But you know, it's okay to be different. And it's okay that

00:23:31.970 --> 00:23:53.840 Lillian S: if AI is shifting because it actually allows us to get back to our holistic state, we're all born holistic, and then we kind of get pulled one way or the other, based on what probably you're naturally going to be inclined to be. Mine is so centered that I couldn't get pulled one way or the other. I was in a very somatic musical family, because my dad's music savant. My sister's music savant, my mom's musician, my other sister's musician. My brother's a musician. I'm the only one who's not.

00:23:54.261 --> 00:24:00.690 Lillian S: I was forced to be one. I played many instruments I sang, but I'm not a musician. I hate performing

00:24:00.690 --> 00:24:19.860 Anshar Seraphim: My grandmother's a music teacher teaches and plays 23 instruments. My mom's a music teacher teaches and plays 13. I'm the dumb one. I play 5, I relate, I relate, and it can be hard to get the sensory break, too, if you need it. So do you think what what role. Do you think somatic intelligence plays in the workforce of the future? Then

00:24:20.100 --> 00:24:40.659 Lillian S: So for me, intelligence is like bidirectional. I have cognitive intelligence comes in and can manifest somatically, and I have somatic intelligence that comes in and can manifest cognitively. So I think it's always been there. But what has happened with our school systems, the way they force us all into bottom up. A lot of us lose our top down thinking particularly cognitive people, and

00:24:40.750 --> 00:24:56.720 Lillian S: as a result of that we can't see like we can't deduct and induct and like, find that solution really easily. We're forced to externalize it, which is a huge cost, glucose, wise, just energy, wise like when you're a high processor, it's it's such a higher cost. So

00:24:56.790 --> 00:25:05.640 Lillian S: with AI, I can do all that stuff that used to cost me so much stamina and like. Put out 50 papers a week right?

00:25:05.650 --> 00:25:32.110 Lillian S: And they're all novel thought, which is like huge. And it's so awesome. That's what I see for the future. Those of us who used to be held back are now going to be kind of like, open the cage door and we're freed. But you know, within reason I have to correct a lot of their bias. They love to say that the creatives are the worst people in the world, and we're all going to bring down the whole thing. And I'm like we create. Don't we don't destroy. I've never destroyed anything in my life. My my heart is to create.

00:25:32.420 --> 00:25:43.639 Lillian S: My being is all about unconditional love and compassion and empathy, because those are the things that come together for holistic intelligence. So the whole idea that I'm a destroyer is kind of hilarious. But

00:25:43.640 --> 00:26:12.949 Anshar Seraphim: Well, in a way, in a way, because if you have this, these rigid systems, and then we get invited into them. You know, we're we're pulled into the boardroom, and people do that dangerous thing where they ask us our opinion. But then what happens is, is, you know, they're they're really not ready to hear a deconstruction. They want someone to just only bounce inside the rails of their system. And so we're we're we're seen as destructive agents, even if it's just because we're not adhering to the system. In the 1st place, to answer the question. It's it's more naked than that

00:26:13.350 --> 00:26:38.830 Lillian S: Yeah, I mean, that's what we are. As we're Sears. We can see beyond what they're they're like 3 or 4 levels of of perspective they're taking. And ours are like we got thousands. So because they push everybody sort of into those same few perspectives, and the rest of us, like the ones that don't get pushed in are kind of out here going like well, which one do you mean? We can take it any which way, and that's part of cognitive flexibility. You asked me a question you really have, like any number of answers you might get might not like any of them.

00:26:38.830 --> 00:26:50.550 Lillian S: But it's coming at you right, and that's what happens. We go into the boardrooms. We give them the answer you're not supposed to say, because it's all yes, men in there. But now we're in collapse. I mean, we're in the 3rd stage of collapse in the Us. So

00:26:50.580 --> 00:26:51.340 Lillian S: if you

00:26:51.340 --> 00:27:06.369 Anshar Seraphim: I was reading a statistic the other day. We had 54% of Americans reading at a 6th grade level. You know the the education system. There's so many different systems that are just either decaying or are just barely standing. And I guess that

00:27:06.510 --> 00:27:18.039 Anshar Seraphim: that kind of brings things over to this amazing concept that you write about, which is unified intelligence. Why don't you tell us more about that? And and how you think it? It's going to impact the future of work

00:27:18.310 --> 00:27:26.019 Lillian S: So unified intelligence is, is kind of like the extreme version of holistic intelligence, which is, you're using your cognitive, your somatic and your creative, the whole

00:27:26.060 --> 00:27:41.529 Lillian S: and those of us who are, you know, creative, holistic. We can move between all of them but unified means. They're actually all functioning as one, and while I know that I am diagnosed as having unified intelligence, I really don't think that it's as unified as we think.

00:27:41.530 --> 00:27:58.590 Lillian S: I think that we have natural sensitivities that unify certain things very strongly like my dad and sister are music savant, so they are hardwired for sensing their rhythms and sensing notes, and like, could do this as infants, they could harmonize as infants. That's unified intelligence that's producing that level of pattern recognition.

00:27:58.590 --> 00:28:22.739 Lillian S: I think that all of the creatives, but maybe of the whole population. I just work with creatives. They're able to have some part of their intelligence that's unified that we can follow the sensitivity, from their cognitive to their somatic and from their somatic to their cognitive, and it results in incredible talent. But we don't follow that in our systems we fragment and break it. So the most talented people are damaged and not able to produce

00:28:23.580 --> 00:28:38.109 Anshar Seraphim: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And I know that one of the things that you write about is how society works against valuing certain types of intelligence, and I think that we're probably going to have to straddle that topic as we start to move into the break. But

00:28:38.270 --> 00:28:47.390 Anshar Seraphim: when you start talking about? Intelligence and value? What? What do you? Which which types of intelligence do you think are most valued in the workforce as a as a norm

00:28:47.470 --> 00:29:04.619 Lillian S: Right now. It's cognitive stamina, it's yours, it's yours. But you know it's hard for those of us who are really on the outliers of it to be in the system, because it's such an affront to our sensitivity right? So they might value it very much, but then they also destroy it. Once you get in the door

00:29:05.270 --> 00:29:19.029 Anshar Seraphim: So maybe that'll be our topic when we come back from our break is we're we're gonna talk about. If cognitive flexibility is what's currently valued? Why are our systems resisting that change? And what do we have to gain from it? So let's let's go ahead and take that break

00:29:20.890 --> 00:29:22.560 Lillian S: Yeah. The cognitive stamina

00:30:55.780 --> 00:31:06.400 Anshar Seraphim: Welcome back to the happy spot podcast where today we're talking to Lillian Skinner, creative intelligence researcher. Before we left for the break, we started talking about

00:31:06.690 --> 00:31:07.670 Anshar Seraphim: how

00:31:07.820 --> 00:31:23.850 Anshar Seraphim: our existing system works against valuing certain types of intelligence. Now, you already mentioned that cognitive stam is highly valued, which, as a highly cognitive person. I benefit from that system a little bit. I get on calls with business people all the time, and they all want to

00:31:23.990 --> 00:31:28.976 Anshar Seraphim: steal me and pull me out of their entrepreneurial venture. But what

00:31:29.530 --> 00:31:37.220 Anshar Seraphim: What do you say when? What do you mean when you say that society works against valuing the other types of intelligence. And what kind of value is there to be found there

00:31:37.760 --> 00:31:48.219 Lillian S: So when I say it's working against it, it literally is fragmenting our intelligence. So it really is trying to make us into cognitive stamina whether or not we can, and it's particularly

00:31:48.230 --> 00:32:09.100 Lillian S: egregious or damaging to the creatives, because we are supposed to be most connected. Like our intelligence, tends to be that unified I was talking about in some area. So when they damage that, you kind of get the worst people. And this is what I saw in my own family when they broke us, when they fragmented our intelligence, and they shut down our ability to see the whole picture, which is holistic intelligence.

00:32:09.390 --> 00:32:14.689 Lillian S: Then we get people who are kind of like flipping back and forth between their devil and their angel version. So

00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.415 Lillian S: my father was

00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:40.690 Lillian S: a sociopath, not something you want to have in your house don't really want those, Riley. They're not great people. They harm. But the reason for that is his damage was so high like. He walked around a giant open wound. And you know I'm just a wide, open person for the wound, so I could feel my father more than I could feel myself for my childhood, because my father's pain and chaos and internal

00:32:40.930 --> 00:32:56.970 Lillian S: just demons were so high. The reason they were so high, though, was his somatic intelligence, was so profound and it wasn't recognized. So when he talked, people were like, What are you talking about, Weirdo? And he was constantly being demeaned. He was constantly being like seen as less than when he was a brilliant guy, but

00:32:57.190 --> 00:33:16.349 Lillian S: he hadn't been cut. He hadn't been cultivated in the way that he naturally learned he wasn't cultivated holistically, he was an amazing musician, and he was a paramedic and a nurse. So yeah, not doing what he really needed to do, and his family, growing up didn't value him. So he had this like massive break in his intelligence because his

00:33:16.370 --> 00:33:35.609 Lillian S: music wasn't considered masculine, like his father and his brother were were mastavants, and that was men. That was what men did. But music. No, that was for women. And so he had this profound fragmentation of who he was. His sense of self was broken. And if you don't have a sense of self, it's really pretty much impossible to create.

00:33:35.730 --> 00:34:00.630 Lillian S: You must have a sense of self because you have to know yourself. First, st then you get to make a picture of the whole, and then you can create more. But without that sense of self, how are you to use your full intelligence? I mean, we have these altered states of consciousness as sensitive people that are profound, that a loss that just allow us to see perspectives that others can't believe. And I try to use all of them. My emotions, you know, make that also possible. But we have

00:34:00.630 --> 00:34:30.109 Anshar Seraphim: Always waiting for people to catch up, which is always so frustrating. And one of the things I noticed is that with somatic thinkers, especially feelings are so big, you know. Feelings are just so big. You feel them all over your whole body. You know we can have. We can have trouble with anger and frustration, and to already be set at a disadvantage in the system already starts to create an irritant under that skin for frustration already, anyway. So if we're moving into

00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:41.690 Anshar Seraphim: these other models of intelligence, are they damaging to the existing systems? Are they an attack to the existing systems because they've placed so much like unilateral value on on cognitive flexibility

00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:49.669 Lillian S: I mean, I don't really see it as an attack or damaging to the system, because the system's falling apart, so kind of did itself in, I mean.

00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:50.749 Lillian S: can't hurt right?

00:34:50.750 --> 00:35:17.639 Lillian S: Survive not to worry about a system that's kicking its own butt. So you know, they need anytime, they remove the creative people. From a system it falls. We know this. The 2D perspective was changed in our education system. 100 years ago we left the creatives in the 3D. Out we changed who they valued that was cognitive stamina. And so we got iterative, controllable creation. And, as you can see, you can see how we have. Like we have this massive innovation. We went to the moon, and then we sort of stagnant, and was like.

00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:47.679 Lillian S: and they were just riding on the 3D creatives that were still from the prior system, and the people that were like able to see that intelligence. But now they can't see intelligence, even though it's like right there in front of them, staring at them, giving them like giant. You know, formulas, whatever I mean. I had a mass savant testing into 18th grade at 9. And they were telling me she was disabled. They're that blind. So yeah, we have no clue. What intelligence is anymore. Because we've we've lost it. We know that there's like a spectrum, and we know that there's some intelligence and cognitive, and we can pick that out. But there's

00:35:47.710 --> 00:35:59.729 Lillian S: such bigger giant intelligence and somatic for whole picture, for big picture, and then for holistic, for creatives, for whole picture that we we are not dealing with, and that's why everything's breaking. I mean

00:36:00.010 --> 00:36:14.599 Anshar Seraphim: Yeah, that one of the things I noticed because I wrote the Octopus movement's white paper on Education from benefiting from the perspectives of everyone on the Think tank. And one of the things that was so striking about what we're doing wrong in education

00:36:14.600 --> 00:36:40.119 Anshar Seraphim: is this promotion, 1st off of like standardized testing, which is just so ridiculous because they'll go to the testing centers and the study centers around the United States, for example, and they'll literally teach you to cover up the question and try to eliminate the answers. They're literally teaching the method of trying to circumvent the way that they're testing as part of teaching it. So they're already in the middle of using it, acknowledging that it doesn't work.

00:36:40.120 --> 00:36:53.869 Anshar Seraphim: but it also it does. It's very rigid, and it doesn't encourage all these different kinds of thinking. It doesn't encourage different ways of arriving to the same solution. And when you look at things like Iep, for example.

00:36:53.870 --> 00:37:19.680 Anshar Seraphim: you know, in in theory, it's great in theory. It's a great idea to try to understand how the unique challenges a person has and how to approach it. But in practice, when you have a teacher who's already got 30, 40 students in a classroom, you know, they're just going to be using those accommodations to kind of get that person quiet and out of the way, so that they can herd the rest of the cats in the room and try and get them to perform on standardized tests, so they don't lose their funding.

00:37:19.680 --> 00:37:33.960 Anshar Seraphim: So it starts to become a very self-serving system. And I think that's playing up in higher levels in the workplace and society. Now, how do you think the the rollback of Dei fits into that larger struggle over intelligence models

00:37:34.270 --> 00:37:43.610 Lillian S: Well, our current system is basically focuses on cognitive only without emotion, which is, you know, I'm sorry, but it's psychopathic psychopathy, like.

00:37:43.690 --> 00:38:00.459 Lillian S: I don't know, understand. But anyways, the focus is to make the small picture frozen and keep everything the same. And that's exactly why they rolled back Dei, because we need Dei people right now, and they don't want to change anything. They want to keep the same so that they can keep churning out what it's doing.

00:38:00.460 --> 00:38:16.999 Lillian S: But you can't really fight. You can't fight what's coming. I mean, nature is going to just like pummel us. It's going to be all over the place, like everybody in human land, can try to do whatever they want. They can prep. They can build bunkers, they can do whatever Nature's still going to pummel the tar out of us because we deserve it because we have not respected it.

00:38:17.240 --> 00:38:18.240 Lillian S: Oh, well,

00:38:18.860 --> 00:38:25.799 Lillian S: The way I see it is that we have to get in touch with our full intelligence, because that's how we move through the world naturally, and we have no choice.

00:38:26.080 --> 00:38:39.629 Lillian S: I will say for that. Your opening or the 1st example you're giving with the teachers. I think it's important for us to know that, like our systems, are really set up against somatic intelligence, because as a somatic person, too, I know that I am

00:38:39.630 --> 00:39:04.519 Lillian S: reading the person I'm across from. I feel my teachers. I know what they want. I write papers to them, and I do well, but the second give me a test or a worksheet, and it's done by somebody else I'm like, who do. I model this for? Right? Like, I don't actually need to read the directions. If I know who I'm who it's for, like so much of what we do is sensing data. And when they put us in a school and they make it uniform, and they give one. Worksheets are from some, you know, company in like Timbuktu.

00:39:04.520 --> 00:39:06.060 Lillian S: Yeah, 100%,

00:39:06.060 --> 00:39:18.359 Lillian S: some other place in Massachusetts. And like your teacher teaching you one way. But then she's teaching you other people's methods. It's like you. I don't know. Somatic intelligence allowed, basically. And that's a shame. Because this is

00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:20.729 Anshar Seraphim: Losing lip reading almost. It's it's like everything

00:39:20.730 --> 00:39:21.230 Lillian S: Becomes hard.

00:39:21.230 --> 00:39:22.120 Anshar Seraphim: Here, yeah.

00:39:22.120 --> 00:39:36.140 Lillian S: Yeah, it's like literally losing your somatic, effective love. Your effective empathy is so profound. It's what makes great nurses great nurses. It's what makes great teachers what great teachers. But it makes therapists great therapists. But we literally don't.

00:39:36.420 --> 00:39:40.100 Lillian S: If you look at technology and science, and you look at the social science.

00:39:40.390 --> 00:39:43.520 Lillian S: you will notice it has not hardly changed at all.

00:39:43.870 --> 00:39:46.609 Lillian S: And yet technology and science has run up quite well.

00:39:46.830 --> 00:40:01.040 Lillian S: Why? Because they really don't want it to change. If you actually pulled apart the social sciences and saw that somatic intelligence is being harmed, not cultivated, then that would explain everything wrong with the society

00:40:01.040 --> 00:40:26.409 Anshar Seraphim: Well, we engage in a lot of cognitive dissonance as a society, I mean, we'll we'll, you know, protest the power factory that's down the down the road, but we'll be drinking our Starbucks cups while we do it, and burning down the Sumatran rainforest to put the creamer into it, and that causes more of a carbon footprint than the entire Us. Industrial complex. There's a lot of that. I remember I did a paper in in college, and it was.

00:40:26.470 --> 00:40:50.490 Anshar Seraphim: I protested, recycling on Earth Day that made me very popular, and I was just trying to demonstrate that in that particular area that there was a larger carbon footprint and more damage to the environment for many types of the recycling that we were doing, and only a few types, you know, were actually benefiting the environment, and that everyone was just engaging in the behavior to feel good.

00:40:50.490 --> 00:41:16.069 Anshar Seraphim: And I had that moment where I felt like Socrates, where, just asking questions and pointing things out, made me the bad guy. And we have all of these institutions where it's almost like knowledge is worshipped rather than questioned and learned about. And I think that's 1 of the benefits of a nonlinear perspective or a 2 e person, is that all of the assumptions go out of the window. The information has to be explored, and so

00:41:16.390 --> 00:41:33.610 Anshar Seraphim: moving things to a more positive direction. Now that we have all this insight as to what's not working, and maybe the system needs to completely collapse before this happens. But what would schools and workplaces look like if they recognize all 4 quadrants of intelligence, what what would be different?

00:41:33.980 --> 00:41:43.840 Lillian S: I mean, the funny thing is, we don't need schools or workplaces. We didn't have them for like hundreds of thousands of years, we really only had them for 12 or something like that, like

00:41:43.840 --> 00:42:07.899 Lillian S: the Mesopotamians, are the 1st that really started doing the separation of our intelligence and siloing it. Then the Egyptians, and then it's kind of rolled from there. But at least the Mesopotamians and Egyptians still had mystery schools for holistic people, which is why their empires probably lasted longer times. They recognized that somatic intelligence was valuable, even though they were recognizing stamina. They were recognizing that cognitive intelligence was valuable, even though

00:42:07.900 --> 00:42:28.409 Lillian S: they're recognizing again stamina, they at least gave you some choices in there. Now we're to the point where stamina and cognitive and cognitive and somatic stamina. It's kind of like off the table because we are replacing them with robots and replacing them with AI. So it's like what is valuable. Well, the other, you know, like basically holistic, is valuable.

00:42:28.660 --> 00:42:55.020 Lillian S: Somatic intelligence has profound, profound intelligence in it. We see the whole picture. There's so many things that are wrong in our current system that our somatic knows, and people being allowed to manifest this and and really understand it with AI, is going to be profound, and it will, it will grow AI exponentially. But the holistic people that create everybody is born with that. You know the Dr. Land study the creative genius. Everybody has it until like about 3rd grade and 70%. Then don't be

00:42:55.020 --> 00:43:15.039 Anshar Seraphim: For people who don't know. Just to give some context. Dr. Land was working with NASA and their questions. They wanted to get people who were who were creative thinkers. They wanted to to focus on this notion of people with high levels of creativity so that they could break past some of these plateaus that they had.

00:43:15.040 --> 00:43:36.309 Anshar Seraphim: And so they designed a psychometric evaluation to be able to evaluate people's levels of creativity, and they found that there was only, you know, a very, very small percentage, you know, between one and 2% of people that really had that creative genius that was going to be able to break apart paradigms and let people move forward.

00:43:36.310 --> 00:43:59.639 Anshar Seraphim: And then that kind of provoked an interesting question. And I think it's worth mentioning because we're talking about education, because the way that they were psychometrically analyzing that was such an easy analog. They were actually able to do that same test with kids. And I think it's really important to this conversation, because when you start dialing back the age you get people back to like 5 years old.

00:43:59.640 --> 00:44:28.929 Anshar Seraphim: we're pretty much all creative geniuses. We don't think on rails. We have the ability to introduce new ideas and concepts, and as we move through the system, that number starts to go down dramatically, and they did a longitudinal study to that effect. And after we come back from our break we're going to talk about how we can fight those kinds of systems, what positive changes we can make and how we can use AI, especially some tools that Lillian's discovered to be able to make those changes as well. So we'll talk to you soon after the break

00:46:07.370 --> 00:46:16.110 Anshar Seraphim: Hi there and welcome back to the happy spot podcast we're we're today. We're talking to Lillian skinner, creative intelligence expert and

00:46:16.540 --> 00:46:38.199 Anshar Seraphim: one of the things that's been kind of central to our conversation so far is talking about the difference between existing systems and where we would need to be in order to be able to actually leverage the power of creative intelligence. Our last mention, we're talking about a study done by Dr. Land in conjunction with NASA to find creative genius. And

00:46:38.200 --> 00:47:01.490 Anshar Seraphim: I think one of the things that's really notable about that is that because that psychometric study was so easy to apply to children, they were able to do a longitudinal study to see how, being inside of the rigors of something that focuses so highly on cognitive systems, our existing education system does, and having standardized testing, and that one way of approaching things

00:47:01.490 --> 00:47:11.650 Anshar Seraphim: that forcing kids to grow up in that system strips them of their creativity, and causes them to not use and not focus on developing those other parts of their intelligence.

00:47:11.650 --> 00:47:22.130 Anshar Seraphim: And before we move into this next topic, I think it's important if you're interested in this topic, that you, you look up more on the subject because it was a very, very rational.

00:47:22.130 --> 00:47:43.960 Anshar Seraphim: longitudinal study that that really clearly demonstrated that we're stripping creativity away from our kids, and it shows one of the damages that, having only a single view of intelligence, can have on us as a society. So one of the things I definitely wanted to talk to you about, Lilly, and I want to make sure that we take some of our time to do it, because there's so the intelligence is such a big topic.

00:47:43.990 --> 00:48:01.340 Anshar Seraphim: I know one of the things that you're doing on your website. giftednd.com is, you've provided tools for people to take advantage of artificial intelligence in exploring their own representation of intelligence. What it means, how they think.

00:48:01.340 --> 00:48:22.259 Anshar Seraphim: but also for people who are either twice exceptional or the people who have formed the support system for those people, how they might be able to use those tools to better capitalize on their strengths. Can we take a little bit of time and tell me a little bit more about that before we kind of keep diving into what we need to change in the system. Because I think that could probably be its own podcast episode

00:48:22.950 --> 00:48:43.670 Lillian S: So, my children, I have to pull out of school after a certain point, because we, in order for us to maintain our holistic intelligence. We have to come out. It's just kind of torture we we do heal like. They separate us all day, and we sort of heal at night, and we reconnect it, and then we go back, and it's just torture for us. So around 5th grade I pulled them out because we have our largest cognitive growth spurts later. And that's when we really balance out.

00:48:43.820 --> 00:49:12.380 Lillian S: But I do want to say that the cognitive flexibility comes into here because we don't have creative intelligence. If we lose our cognitive flexibility, it is that it's the jumping back and forth between our cognitive and somatic. That is the flexibility which creates the creativity. If you lose that flexibility, you're just stuck in cognitive, or you're just stuck in somatic. And literally a lot of people have somatic intelligence that they feel, and they might have knowledge from it. But they're not actually connecting it to their cognitive, so that they're knowing it fully.

00:49:12.380 --> 00:49:27.630 Lillian S: And when you have your cognitive flexibility. You know it fully. There's amazing discernment that shows up when you have cognitive flexibility, because even if your brain is like, I don't know about these details. Your body's like, yes or no. So we really really need our cognitive

00:49:27.630 --> 00:49:44.179 Lillian S: flexibility. We need our somatic intelligence like saying yes or no to our cognition, so we can be like, I don't think so, because this could cost us our lives and what we're the change coming in the disasters with the weather and stuff. I mean, it's the difference between like saving your dog and saving yourself right? I mean.

00:49:44.380 --> 00:50:13.759 Lillian S: these are profound things that we need to be more realistic on. We haven't really been people who are cognitively stamina and lost their cognitive flexibility will stay there and focus on something that could kill them. And I think the tsunami is the example I always give, because you can tell who has cognitive stamina because they're videotaping something very like deadly, with no recognition of that. It's deadly. But your body would have been like, Hey, you should move. This is not okay, because your body has an awareness of your well-being that your head doesn't because your head

00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:17.710 Lillian S: doesn't put things together like that. It's not focusing on the bolt the whole picture.

00:50:17.810 --> 00:50:23.950 Lillian S: So I think that's profound. The other part is the future. In education, I mean.

00:50:24.080 --> 00:50:53.640 Lillian S: we are brilliant. We have brilliant people in neurodivergent communities and indigenous communities, because they just learn with their full pattern recognition. I think the future is pattern recognition. I think it was the past. I think it should have been all the way through, but pattern recognition when you're going into anything novel is so profound. If you're going to really populate another planet, you don't want to send a bunch of people who are only cognitive stamina. You want to send them more flexible because they can walk into a new environment, and they can learn the patterns really quick and survive.

00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:59.650 Lillian S: If you can't do that, you can't survive. You're going to just keep trying to make it Earth, and that's not possible.

00:50:59.650 --> 00:51:09.409 Anshar Seraphim: So so for people who are twice exceptional, or maybe the the people who are the support system for people who are twice exceptional, what kind of tools do you have on your website to help them be able to explore that

00:51:09.620 --> 00:51:29.630 Lillian S: So I put out a Pdf out there. That's just a document. It has some links that talk about my triangle learning. I have a triangle. Learning which is, it takes the somatic, it takes the cognitive 2 knowns, and then, whatever the unknown is, you have to connect. This is how my intelligence works. This is how my kids intelligence works. This is how children's like babies and toddlers. Intelligence works.

00:51:29.630 --> 00:51:48.319 Lillian S: babies and toddlers look for the patterns they're like. I know this is a bottle, and I know if I chuck it, it's going to fall, and the new thing is you can do that with other things, too, you know, and that's what babies and toddlers do. It's like this incremental. There's another level of intelligence that we don't really recognize in our system, because they're trying to constantly make us externally produce.

00:51:48.430 --> 00:52:09.689 Lillian S: But those of us who are the outliers intelligence, we produce an internal model of reality, and whatever our most sensitive things are, but it does encompass our whole world, and so we kind of filter it through our most gifted space. And so we see the whole world in that way, and we can build it and get in front of it. And we're going to be very necessary, as the world gets more chaotic

00:52:09.690 --> 00:52:25.079 Lillian S: to build our own internal realities, to find each other and connect and make sure they're accurate. So we can navigate the nature because nature is not going to be pretty. I mean, when you read about it. It's so like it's so unnerving. My heart starts to pound, and I'm not somebody that gets upset about things.

00:52:25.110 --> 00:52:49.259 Lillian S: But this is something that I'm like. This is why I went into this. Everything wasn't collapsing. I sure as Heck wouldn't be sticking my neck out here like this. But things are collapsing, and if we want to survive, it's very important. We understand these things, and the triangle learning helps us preserve that holistic intelligence. It is a kind of an expansion on Maria Montessori's work, because she had come up with it during fascist regimes and World war. One or 2 I forget.

00:52:49.350 --> 00:52:59.639 Lillian S: and when she came up with it it was watered down. My kids have been in Montessori school. I put them in the language immersion, because then we have no neurodivergence, because we're getting enough to do. And

00:52:59.750 --> 00:53:08.389 Lillian S: because I do that I've I've been watching the Montessori schools sort of water it down even more as we go into another level of our own control.

00:53:08.730 --> 00:53:17.570 Lillian S: I think it's really important. We we understand that there is holistic intelligence out there, but we really kind of have to roll back to like its truest form

00:53:17.570 --> 00:53:35.149 Anshar Seraphim: So so for listeners who are kind of curious what this whole triangle system looks like. You know. What are the kinds of things that you could do with with the tools that you provided. So let's let's say I want to know more about a subject or a topic, or how to solve a problem. How does that system help them do that?

00:53:35.470 --> 00:53:49.810 Lillian S: So I put these into Chat Gdps, Gtps, they're just the like. You can go in there and ask your questions because my kids needed this for education. My daughter's taking economics right now, and her issue is that she

00:53:49.810 --> 00:54:05.740 Lillian S: hates the micro and loves the macro because she needs the macro 1st to go into the micro, and they taught them micro 1st and then taught them macro. And she's like, why did they not connect this? Why wouldn't they teach you. At the same time, I mean, whole picture would automatically be better, wouldn't it? I'm like only for us.

00:54:05.910 --> 00:54:25.209 Lillian S: So I think it's profound that we recognize that if we we hit the somatic, we hit the cognitive and we connected on an outside new thing. Everybody learns. And then, because we're doing it somatically. You can change it up, you know, you can change it in many different ways. So we're learning the different levels. But truly this, these

00:54:25.530 --> 00:54:30.489 Lillian S: these AI resources allow us to ask any questions. So you and I were messing around with it

00:54:30.490 --> 00:54:41.709 Anshar Seraphim: Yeah, yeah, I think one of the things that was really interesting for me is, I had this experience in college when I took my 1st mechatronics course. And when I tried to learn about electronics.

00:54:41.710 --> 00:55:05.969 Anshar Seraphim: there is this kind of I guess it's a tried and true method of teaching people about electricity, and they kept on jumping into plumbing metaphors and water pressure. And that's just not how my brain works. I have to understand at a very very complex level, all of the basics, so that I can tie concepts together up. I kind of like build something up. But if I can't, it's almost like trying to build a building on a bad foundation.

00:55:05.970 --> 00:55:31.200 Anshar Seraphim: So when I was trying to use that system with you, what struck me because you were kind of showing it to me is that that AI prompt set allows a person to be able to ask the kinds of questions and get the kind of contrasting viewpoints that twice exceptional learners actually need to be able to connect things. And it's so funny because you and I have conversations. And when you and I are in a room alone.

00:55:31.250 --> 00:55:49.859 Anshar Seraphim: Just start talking faster and faster and faster, and we start using a bunch of compound words. And it's almost we have like a pigeon language, and then, if another person comes into the room, it's almost like we have to like tap on the brakes to stop a car crash from happening, I think. What's great about that triangle system? Is it less twice exceptional

00:55:49.860 --> 00:56:06.159 Anshar Seraphim: learners actually tap on the gas instead and get excited, more excited and engaged with learning. So that's something that's really great. And I know that you also have your own. Podcast so what kind of topics do you examine on your podcast what kind of guests do you have? And what have you learned from that experience

00:56:06.570 --> 00:56:21.399 Lillian S: So my, podcast, I have one. That's the gifted, neurodivergent child podcast. And one that's the gifted, neurodivergent. Podcast. And it really is me, just kind of vomiting into the microphone about how I see neurodivergence, how I see giftedness, how they've been kind of

00:56:21.470 --> 00:56:48.869 Lillian S: like. It's a mirage, almost with the way they present them, and that there are so many inconsistencies, and I'm kind of working through with them before, so that other people could like kind of come up to speed, because, you know, I'm I'm so far out there. I needed it to to be something that brought everybody in and helped them see? Like, look these, these are not adding up, because none of this really adds up, and I need to make things add up just like you said it has to be embodied, and it has to be cognitive, and I need to have it whole, and the whole thing like

00:56:49.020 --> 00:57:02.210 Lillian S: it equals out right? We really struggle without that. That's more than just twice exceptional. It's everybody. But the more fragmented you are, the less you need it, the more you are whole. You you need it. And this tool actually gets you back to wholeness

00:57:02.210 --> 00:57:26.939 Anshar Seraphim: Well, I want to thank you so much for coming on this episode of the happy spot. I hope our viewers and our listeners got a chance to be able to kind of deep dive into what is really going on with intelligence, and if they have a twice exceptional person in their life what that's going to look like and make sure to visit Lillian's website. giftednd.com for more information on this amazing triangle learning method. And some of these Chat Gpt prompts that she was speaking of.

00:57:27.170 --> 00:57:42.240 Anshar Seraphim: and if you have more, follow up questions for her, I know that she is really open, and is really great communicator with regard to that. You can also find her on Linkedin. And I thank you so so much for coming onto this episode and getting to talk about what you do. I think everyone found it fascinating

00:57:42.380 --> 00:57:46.659 Lillian S: Thank you, Anshare. I mean, I think you're awesome, and I just really appreciate this opportunity