Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
How does it feel to be in a space where everyone offers belonging to themselves and others? In this episode, we will learn about Dr. Otito's Belonging Framework.
Belonging is a universal human need, yet not everyone feels like they belong, even when they should. What leads to belonging and non-belonging? Dr. Otitio's framework will discuss environmental and personal factors to foster and practice belonging, with a focus on work spaces where we spend much of our adult lives.
***
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Dr. Otito Iwuchukwu, is an organizational psychologist and pharmacist-scientist, career strategist, international speaker and author. Dr Otito has been studying and researching on the impact of belonging in cross-cultural experiences since immigrating to the United States twenty years ago. A certified facilitator in cultural intelligence, Otito has been training and teaching from a cultural and trauma-informed framework for many years.
***
IF YOU ENJOYED THIS EPISODE, CAN I ASK A FAVOR?
We do not receive any funding or sponsorship for this podcast. If you learned something and feel others could also benefit, please leave a positive review. Every review helps amplify our work and visibility. This is especially helpful for small women-owned boot-strapped businesses. Simply go to the bottom of the Apple Podcast page to enter a review. Thank you!
***
LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
www.gotowerscope.com
Website: www.otitoiwuchukwu.com
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/otitoiwuchukwu
Facebook: www.facebook.com/otitoiwuchukwu.authorpage
Instagram: www.instagram.com/thebelonging.paradox
#belonging #culture #culturalintelligence #neurodiversity #workrelationships #diasporawomen #TheHardSkills #OrganizationalDevelopment #LeadershipDevelopment
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
As women in leadership roles, we often find ourselves navigating environments where belonging is not always guaranteed, no matter how capable or accomplished we are. Dr. Otito's experiences remind us that even when invited into a space, subtle or overt signals may still question our right to be there. This tension isn’t just external; it can lead us to question our own sense of worth and belonging, influencing how we show up at the table.
What becomes clear is that belonging is both an internal journey and an external strategy. As leaders, we must cultivate a strong sense of self, while actively working to create inclusive, empathetic environments for our teams. Dr. Otito’s “BELONG” framework highlights how essential it is to set healthy boundaries, maintain grace under pressure, and orient ourselves thoughtfully in new spaces, even when the culture doesn't mirror our own.
Leadership isn’t about conforming to pre-set molds but about reshaping the space to reflect diverse voices, including our own. The stories shared in this conversation remind us that building belonging starts with sending clear, intentional signals to others—welcoming differences while advocating for equitable treatment. This isn’t just about feeling accepted; it’s about redefining the conditions of acceptance altogether.
Finally, for women leading teams or organizations, embracing this paradox means letting go of the need to control every outcome. Instead, we can focus on fostering trust, extending grace, and recognizing the needs of both ourselves and others. In doing so, we not only strengthen our leadership but pave the way for future generations of women to feel they belong without question.
00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:17.590 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Welcome back to the Hard skills show where we take a deep dive into the most challenging soft skills required to navigate leadership, uncertainty, complexities and change today and into the future. I'm your host, Dr. Mira Branku, psychologist, leadership consultant and founder of Towerscope.
00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:29.009 www.TalkRadio.nyc: So today's episode is really relevant to current experiences and how national events have had an impact in our daily experiences with belonging and non-belonging.
00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:33.150 www.TalkRadio.nyc: How can we increase the experience of belonging for ourselves and others.
00:01:33.390 --> 00:02:03.029 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Dr. Otito is here with us today to help us imagine things differently and learn from her belonging framework. It's a great topic to help us kick off. Season 7, which is focused on navigating, unhealthy work environments in the honor of my new workbook that came out millennials, workbook for navigating workplace politics, and really beyond. So whether you're a leader managing a team or simply trying to support your colleagues, this conversation is for you.
00:02:03.360 --> 00:02:24.300 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Let me introduce our guest today, Dr. Otito Iwchuku. I knew I was going to mess it up, which is a beautiful name. By the way, she is an organizational psychologist, and she's a pharmacist, scientist, an interesting combo here career strategist, international speaker, and author
00:02:24.380 --> 00:02:36.879 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and certified facilitator in cultural intelligence. Dr. Otito has been studying and researching the impact of belonging and cross-cultural experiences since immigrating to the United States 20 years ago today.
00:02:36.930 --> 00:02:56.700 www.TalkRadio.nyc: And I can't imagine a better guest today, for today's times, plus she and I clearly enjoy having lots of books behind us, and she was bobbing her head to my music so clearly she enjoys music, too, so we already have a lot in common. Dr. Otito.
00:02:56.860 --> 00:02:58.649 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Welcome to have you on the show.
00:03:03.580 --> 00:03:16.279 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Thank you so much, Dr. Branco. I am so excited to be here. I remember when I 1st met you, and where I 1st met you, and so when you asked me to come, I'm like, Oh, my goodness, this is such an honor. So thank you
00:03:16.500 --> 00:03:24.929 www.TalkRadio.nyc: absolutely. Yeah. So Dr. Ottijo and I met at a talk that I was giving for the society of psychologists and leadership.
00:03:24.930 --> 00:03:48.570 www.TalkRadio.nyc: It was about redefining leadership, and especially for women and marginalized voices, and she attended, and she really enjoyed it. And then I started seeing her work, because that's how we connected. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, I love her work. I want to talk to her more. So that is how she ended up on this show. So Dr. You emigrated 20 years ago. Today I emigrated.
00:03:48.790 --> 00:03:57.999 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Probably should I date myself 40 something years? But that means that you have
00:03:58.010 --> 00:04:19.089 www.TalkRadio.nyc: a personal experience with that transition into a new world, a new culture. In addition, you have a personal and parent experience with neurodivergence, which adds kind of additional perspective, cultural you know, perspective and and of all of this impacting, belonging and non-belonging.
00:04:19.089 --> 00:04:35.329 www.TalkRadio.nyc: So I would love to hear more about how those experiences you know, the personal experience of immigration, the personal experience of neurodivergence and parenting. You know, child, with neurodiversity.
00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:39.210 www.TalkRadio.nyc: how does that? How has that influenced your interest
00:04:39.580 --> 00:04:44.000 www.TalkRadio.nyc: in belonging and non-belonging and kind of where you are with it right now?
00:04:44.190 --> 00:05:11.850 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Okay, thank you for that question. So it's interesting. Because, you know, every time I think about that story about this story, I'm about to tell, like one of 2 stories. I can't believe that it happened. But it did. And this was literally when I walked into graduate school. So I came like fresh off the plane and into school. I didn't have like, you know, time for adjustment. Maybe I had about 3 days. Wow! School.
00:05:11.900 --> 00:05:17.949 www.TalkRadio.nyc: And I remember the 1st time this professor walked into the classroom.
00:05:18.140 --> 00:05:21.670 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and he literally said to us, he said.
00:05:22.380 --> 00:05:27.530 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I don't know why it has to be he, but he said, You know,
00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:50.689 www.TalkRadio.nyc: you're not meant to be here. Something like that, like, you know, this particular field is for certain people, and like you could trace the ancestry, the ancestral tree. That's what he said, like you could literally trace it to me, and so I know that not all of you are going to make the cut something like that. So that was like one of them. Another one came and said.
00:05:51.160 --> 00:06:08.750 www.TalkRadio.nyc: You know, I think that was the very 1st week, he said, well, you know all of you are coming from all of these countries where you thought like you were the local champions. But now you're here in this country, and you're gonna have to almost like, Prove yourself right. He's like, you know, you're here now.
00:06:08.750 --> 00:06:25.929 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and you're going to be small fish in a big pond. Literally, he said that in class, and I remember thinking what you know that's kind of. And I said, You know I was born in Nigeria, and I remember thinking to myself, you do not know who we are, right, that kind of thing.
00:06:26.030 --> 00:06:31.090 www.TalkRadio.nyc: And I remember that I doubled down on the work I worked so hard. I mean.
00:06:31.390 --> 00:06:41.810 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I'm just looking back now, if that was not a good strategy, because it led to Burnout. But I said, you know, it was trying to prove myself. I said, I'm going to show you that I'm here. I deserve to be here, and
00:06:42.170 --> 00:06:50.410 www.TalkRadio.nyc: it was hard, but I remember that feeling in the classroom and thinking you only just met us like, why are you saying this? You know.
00:06:50.610 --> 00:07:04.150 www.TalkRadio.nyc: to us? And I think I've carried that in my heart, even as I, you know, entered the education space to say, I never want anyone in my classroom to feel like, you know, they don't belong, because that's literally what it was so. That was from
00:07:04.320 --> 00:07:07.889 www.TalkRadio.nyc: like literally, my 1st 2 weeks in graduate school.
00:07:08.350 --> 00:07:34.919 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and I just never forgot how that felt right now. Many years later, I have my own child, you know he's in the school, and he was in kindergarten at the time, and I remember getting a call that you know that they had some observations and they wanted to let me know. So I said, Okay, you know, this was a school psychologist. I said, Okay, so I went in, and I was literally blindsided. There was a whole child study team.
00:07:35.280 --> 00:07:43.139 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and you know, the teacher at the time was saying how he doesn't pay attention. You know he's very like disruptive, and all of that.
00:07:43.230 --> 00:08:01.950 www.TalkRadio.nyc: And I said, What's the issue? She said. Oh, his comprehension is not good, like, you know. I keep trying to get him to read. And I said, How are you measuring comprehension? And she said, Well, you know they read and we ask them questions, and he doesn't answer me. And so that's how I know. Like he, you know, he's not understanding the thing.
00:08:02.020 --> 00:08:31.249 www.TalkRadio.nyc: And I said, This is my child right? And she said, but he reads really well, that's what she said, she said. He reads really well. He reads at the 4th grade level, and I said I didn't even know that. But I said, It's my child, and I can tell you how I kind of you know, assess his comprehension at home, because he does the same thing. He will not answer me if I ask him like this direct question of what was in the book. And so I said, I started to like, misread the book like I'll just say, Oh, you know, in this book, you know. Say.
00:08:31.580 --> 00:08:47.730 www.TalkRadio.nyc: maybe Leo went to the farm and he was saying, No, no, no! On page 25 he says, Leo went to, you know the grocery store, and I said, If that is not comprehension, I don't know what it is right like. I don't understand why you're saying he's not comprehending.
00:08:47.770 --> 00:09:05.000 www.TalkRadio.nyc: And then she said, Well, you know, he's not letting me focus on the other kids because he came in knowing how to read already. So I don't have time to focus on the kids who are just getting their Abcs. And I remember thinking so. My child has to suffer right, for you know this whole uneven
00:09:05.280 --> 00:09:30.349 www.TalkRadio.nyc: class, so to speak. I said, so what is the correct. What are we going to use to help him in the classroom being that you know his social and emotional skills are not yet there. This is why he's in kindergarten. They asked me if you could move a level, and I said, No, because I want him to kind of, you know, have the social skills. So all of this was so baffling to me because I said, you haven't even taken the time to know this child. You're already kind of.
00:09:30.350 --> 00:09:49.979 www.TalkRadio.nyc: you know, judge them. And it's like their problem right? And that's to me, becomes the central conversations around belonging right because of these judgment, summary judgments that are made sometimes. And then people just almost cannot overcome that right in the eyes of the people making the judgments. So, yeah.
00:09:50.190 --> 00:09:58.470 www.TalkRadio.nyc: yeah, yeah, that's A lot of really, you know great stories about messaging
00:09:58.640 --> 00:10:08.890 www.TalkRadio.nyc: that you got and messaging that your child got about belonging and not always based in your in your capabilities.
00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:12.539 www.TalkRadio.nyc: right? So belonging does not necessarily mean
00:10:13.316 --> 00:10:18.920 www.TalkRadio.nyc: that it's connected to capabilities. So as you sort of continue to
00:10:19.190 --> 00:10:23.360 www.TalkRadio.nyc: look into this experience of belonging and non-belonging.
00:10:23.530 --> 00:10:28.510 www.TalkRadio.nyc: What have you learned over time for yourself about
00:10:29.185 --> 00:10:32.580 www.TalkRadio.nyc: that experience? And then, and even
00:10:34.250 --> 00:10:40.329 www.TalkRadio.nyc: how you've applied it to your son, have you how you've applied it to other people that you work with. Yeah.
00:10:40.430 --> 00:11:01.590 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I think the primary thing that I, you know, always come from is who defines the space who defines who gets to be in the space. And so you find yourself taking the voice of advocacy to say, everyone, you know, deserves a shot they deserve to be in this space. You may not like it. You may not like them, but the space itself.
00:11:01.670 --> 00:11:17.689 www.TalkRadio.nyc: You cannot stop them from being in that space if they choose right. So then it comes down to a matter of choice. Because, you know, with this child, we've also thought, should we homeschool, should we? Not? So that's the choice we are making. But while the while he's there, or while I'm in a certain place.
00:11:17.790 --> 00:11:39.029 www.TalkRadio.nyc: then I should be able to be afforded all the rights and privileges that come with being in the space, if we're looking at it from a systemic point of view. But I've seen that that doesn't always happen. And so for the individual, then you have to almost like, rearrange yourself and say, Okay, with what
00:11:39.670 --> 00:12:02.280 www.TalkRadio.nyc: self am I going to come into this space right? Because I know people talk about. You know the authentic self. And while I appreciate that messaging, sometimes I feel like that may not be the best thing for certain people right? Because you then have to almost like, look at the space. Try to see if you can redraw your boundary lines and know right how you how you should be
00:12:02.280 --> 00:12:15.520 www.TalkRadio.nyc: in that space. Right? People in the, you know, neurodiverse city community or neurodivers coming to say it's masking, but that's what you have to do sometimes, in order to be able to, you know, walk through that space and then come back.
00:12:15.520 --> 00:12:30.320 www.TalkRadio.nyc: you know, to a safer space which is typically your home and be yourself right in that sense. So yeah, that's the way I see it. To say you have to advocate while you're in the space. But at the same time you should also know that this space
00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:40.849 www.TalkRadio.nyc: may not be able to take the fullness of myself in terms of capacity, and all of that. And so I need to be mindful of that. And mindful then of how I present myself.
00:12:41.090 --> 00:12:57.049 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Yeah, absolutely. I. There, there is the the context of. On the one hand, you were admitted to the program. They've invited you into the space. On the other hand, they're sending you all kinds of messages that you don't belong. And so you're trying to think.
00:12:57.680 --> 00:13:06.479 www.TalkRadio.nyc: am I allowed to actually be myself here or not. Or who did you actually admit to this program? Right now, let's let's blow it up
00:13:07.100 --> 00:13:20.790 www.TalkRadio.nyc: even larger, right at a national and international level. Right? National international crises have a way of somehow creating this interesting paradox of.
00:13:20.920 --> 00:13:22.400 www.TalkRadio.nyc: on the one hand.
00:13:22.710 --> 00:13:36.879 www.TalkRadio.nyc: creating less belonging. It's us versus them. That is a threat response. Right? Who? Who are my people that I can feel safe with, and who are not my people, that I cannot feel safe with? What is my, you know, and it's total self protection.
00:13:37.705 --> 00:13:50.260 www.TalkRadio.nyc: At the same exact time. It also creates spaces of increasing belonging when people are under threat and looking for safe places and spaces and people. Right?
00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:57.770 www.TalkRadio.nyc: How do you think about navigating those polarities, and even like thinking in the workplace, right in the workplace?
00:13:58.314 --> 00:14:02.259 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Some people are talking about earth for us versus them.
00:14:02.530 --> 00:14:09.730 www.TalkRadio.nyc: some of our own people my people are talking about, we this and they that, and it creates both
00:14:09.950 --> 00:14:14.619 www.TalkRadio.nyc: safety and lack of safety belonging, and lack of belonging at the same time.
00:14:15.650 --> 00:14:17.160 www.TalkRadio.nyc: How do you make sense of that?
00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:32.090 www.TalkRadio.nyc: So what I think at what's going about? What's going on at the national level? I think about it from a family systems. Perspective, right? It's that sense of
00:14:32.818 --> 00:14:55.120 www.TalkRadio.nyc: like you said is a threat response it's a sense of oh, everything I own now is going to have to be shared right in that sense, and we see it, and I and I use family system because you see it in a family. If the the addition of you know a new child, whether by birth or by adoption. Right? The the children that are currently in the house, or the child that is currently in the home
00:14:55.880 --> 00:15:09.809 www.TalkRadio.nyc: has this almost, like, you know, almost like a natural sense of something is changing, right? Something has shifted, something is never going to be the same. And so their response right to that.
00:15:10.020 --> 00:15:29.680 www.TalkRadio.nyc: It's you sometimes you can't predict it. And I think that's what we're seeing at the national level. And so everyone, then, in order to respond to that, you know, I would say, evoked responses. We now cluster into our own, you know identity spaces, and so like, I said, then it becomes us versus them.
00:15:29.990 --> 00:15:32.120 www.TalkRadio.nyc: But I think if we
00:15:32.170 --> 00:15:53.470 www.TalkRadio.nyc: came out of that 0 sum, you know mentality to say, if I get a slice of the pie, another person doesn't get it, then it helps us all to see that we're all here, for you know a common good. And what is that common good, the survival of the human species or at work. You know
00:15:53.470 --> 00:16:11.200 www.TalkRadio.nyc: the concept of all of us working together to meet organizational goals. Now, how you may meet that goal or your own process may be a little different from mine, but it doesn't mean that, you know. It doesn't mean that you're wrong, or I'm wrong, right? In that sense. It's just
00:16:11.230 --> 00:16:38.749 www.TalkRadio.nyc: what I call the different ways that we see the world. And so what happens then now is, though someone says, if you cannot see through my own view through my own window. Then you're not allowed in this space, but it's like, but there are many windows in the house. I can go look through another window as long as we want to, you know. Look outside and admire the weather. Actually, if we do that, it actually allows us to compare to say, Oh, I see this, and I see this. And you know
00:16:39.110 --> 00:17:07.399 www.TalkRadio.nyc: what a beautiful environment we live in. Right? So all of these are just analogies. But that's the sense that I see to say. There's no reason that we have to almost like be this way right, if not for that, like human response to threats, right? Because it's an unknown. You don't know what's going to come behind. And so it's like, let me stop this from even happening. But the ways in which we're stopping it are antithetical to human flourishing.
00:17:07.569 --> 00:17:18.029 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I mean, that's the way I see it. Yeah, yeah, I can't believe it. But we're already reaching an ad break. So before we continue on this very interesting conversation, we're gonna
00:17:18.030 --> 00:17:39.049 www.TalkRadio.nyc: enter into an ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Otito Chuku, and author of the Belonging Paradox. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern time. You could find us at lots of locations at Talkradionyc. We'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.
00:17:43.030 --> 00:17:49.329 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Are you a conscious co-creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness.
00:17:49.630 --> 00:18:05.700 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I'm Sam Liebowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show, the conscious, consultant hour awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen! Live at our new time on Thursdays, at 12 noon Eastern time.
00:18:05.810 --> 00:18:13.450 www.TalkRadio.nyc: That's the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. Thursdays 12 noon on Talkradionyc.
00:18:17.560 --> 00:18:42.250 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Are you a high achieving, growth-oriented leader? Are you interested in developing your authentic leadership while creating a healthy, inclusive workplace? Hi, I'm Dr. Mira Bronku host of the hard skills on Talkradionyc at 5 pm. Eastern on Tuesdays, where we discuss how leaders develop the hard skills needed to make a greater impact. We interview experts have live coaching and tackle these challenges.
00:18:42.530 --> 00:18:47.810 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Listen to the hard skills. On Tuesday, at 5 pm. Eastern on Talkradio, dot. Nyc.
00:18:49.690 --> 00:18:54.729 www.TalkRadio.nyc: you're listening to talk radio, Nyc uplift, educate, empower.
00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:49.500 www.TalkRadio.nyc: welcome, welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Braku and our guest today, Dr. Otito Iwuchiku, and she is the author of the Belonging Paradox. So we've been talking about this paradox from my perspective, about belonging and non-belonging during crises during international and national crises. And you started, you know, talking about
00:19:50.213 --> 00:20:10.540 www.TalkRadio.nyc: not not falling into the trap of clustering into various identity spaces which I loved. I wrote it down. How he wrote that, and that our 1st identity is the human species. That is what we all have in common. That's our 1st identity. You also shared around
00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:33.763 www.TalkRadio.nyc: kind of like the recognition of we are all windows into our experiences in our environment, and those windows are important not to just like look out your own window, but to recognize there's multiple windows in our home, in our space, and that you might want to take in a different perspective a different
00:20:34.360 --> 00:20:41.070 www.TalkRadio.nyc: part of your environment to get, you know, a bigger view of it. So I'm wondering how how all of this connects
00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:50.229 www.TalkRadio.nyc: to how you think about belonging, and especially kind of how you came up with the belonging paradox as a focus of your book.
00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:50.795 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Okay?
00:20:51.570 --> 00:20:55.779 www.TalkRadio.nyc: So again, you know, speaking from that
00:20:56.546 --> 00:21:01.399 www.TalkRadio.nyc: view, I would say, my worldview of neurodiversity.
00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:28.610 www.TalkRadio.nyc: The paradox for me, actually 2 paradoxes that I explored in the book is this idea of, you know, belonging, being almost like an internal state, and then an external process. So I have to be able to know who I am right, accept myself for who I am, and then when I enter into a space, then I work on, you know, making sure that I feel right, I have that feeling of belonging in that space.
00:21:28.730 --> 00:21:42.610 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and sometimes that would necessitate some work. It's going to necessitate work of making sure that I, too, am also sending signals of belonging to other people, regardless of who or what I am.
00:21:43.040 --> 00:21:45.350 www.TalkRadio.nyc: And the second paradox was.
00:21:45.410 --> 00:22:14.940 www.TalkRadio.nyc: it's tied to this 1st one of that we can be, you know ourselves, within a community and outside of the community, because I do think that the work of belonging, you know, you can't speak about it without talking about the tension behind wanting to be yourself and wanting to be an integral part of a group. Right now. The problem with a group is, there might be certain characteristics in that group that may not align with your, and by alignment I don't mean even values, but it's just the way the group
00:22:15.030 --> 00:22:28.850 www.TalkRadio.nyc: is may not align to your own person. And so how do you walk through that? Because you want to be part of the group as an example, you know. Talk about school, right?
00:22:29.260 --> 00:22:54.269 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Children want to go to school, or I want to go to work. However, the particular work environments may not be aligned to my personhood, my personality and all of that. And so how do I straddle that tension, knowing that all I want to do is work right, regardless of how I come across. And so those were the things that I kind of kept
00:22:54.580 --> 00:22:57.379 www.TalkRadio.nyc: researching and wondering about. Because
00:22:57.740 --> 00:23:15.780 www.TalkRadio.nyc: if you think in terms of, you know, maybe social rejection or things. I don't think people come into a space thinking that they're going to be rejected. They come just as they are, but then they kind of get signals from the environment or from friends. When I talk about environment, I'm talking about social environment which could mean groups.
00:23:15.780 --> 00:23:37.159 www.TalkRadio.nyc: they get the signals that tell them you don't really belong here right? And so what that does is the person could go to another space, but then that experience may follow them, and then they're kind of a little bit wary now, right in the new space, and the the weariness then comes across as being aloof right? And so you then get this
00:23:37.170 --> 00:23:54.880 www.TalkRadio.nyc: almost like feedback mechanism, where it's like this new person is so aloof, but not recognizing that all they're doing is just being a little bit guarded because of their previous experiences. And so how do people recognize that they are responding to this person
00:23:54.880 --> 00:24:14.109 www.TalkRadio.nyc: who is also responding to them? So it's again like I said, it's like a feedback loop. And so for me, it's the question of how do we? How do we walk through all of this right both from the individual point of view and from the organizational point of view, knowing, though, that organizations are made up of individuals, right? So how do you straddle that continuous tension?
00:24:14.405 --> 00:24:20.305 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Yeah. Yeah. A couple of things come up for me when you're you're sort of sharing. This one is just
00:24:20.600 --> 00:24:29.820 www.TalkRadio.nyc: A personal story of to describe. Kind of like the experience here, right? Which is I
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:51.400 www.TalkRadio.nyc: am a mom of a daughter who's interested in volleyball. Now I don't identify as a volleyball mom. However, when I go to these tournaments there are volleyball moms, and they all crowd around together, and they're all talking volleyball, and I'm totally clueless about volleyball.
00:24:51.400 --> 00:25:06.360 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and I also look very different, and have, you know, different experiences, and you know, background than they. It's very clear. They know it. I know it. We haven't talked about it right. But what happened
00:25:07.044 --> 00:25:21.595 www.TalkRadio.nyc: last year is there was a situation where my daughter needed, you know, some support. And I realized I never made any relationships, because I always felt like I was the outsider. I always felt like
00:25:22.170 --> 00:25:51.739 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and not just. I didn't just feel like maybe I might be rejected. But I rejected them, too. I didn't make any effort to try to cultivate relationships. I just accepted the state of things, and so, when it came to me needing help for my daughter, I had realized I failed her in failing to make a connection that I clearly could have made an effort to do. And I think all of that speaks to
00:25:51.840 --> 00:26:14.289 www.TalkRadio.nyc: this idea of that you don't hear a lot of when we talk about belonging is that there's there's a part of us that we're supposed to also seek, creating a space of belonging, even when we don't necessarily feel it first.st Like that is our responsibility, too. Right? So sending signals of belonging, one of the things that I learned at the very tail end is.
00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:40.179 www.TalkRadio.nyc: yeah. I should invite everybody to dinner after a tournament that will signal some level of belonging. And lo and behold, people came, and lo and behold, we kind of got along, and it was nice shocking, I know, but I had to create that like I had to also step in to deep discomfort and be my personal discomfort in order to create that sense of belonging in order to feel that sense of belonging right.
00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:54.010 www.TalkRadio.nyc: So that's really what my book explores right that personal responsibility versus collective responsibility, because it goes both ways, especially if you are now aware of your person. Right? Like you said you were aware of. I'm not
00:26:54.180 --> 00:27:14.830 www.TalkRadio.nyc: a part of this people, but I mean this space, and my daughter deserves, you know, like I said, the rights and privileges of volleyball. And so I must not deprive her of that because of my own discomfort. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, going back to the tension now of, you know, wanting to be yourself.
00:27:15.100 --> 00:27:18.859 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and then wanting to be part of a group right?
00:27:19.060 --> 00:27:27.090 www.TalkRadio.nyc: What I have found more often now than I feel like. Maybe even in the past, is
00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:34.160 www.TalkRadio.nyc: the moment we think that someone feels differently than us about anything.
00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:42.080 www.TalkRadio.nyc: we're shocked. We're disappointed. And now, all of a sudden, we don't have a sense of belonging, and
00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:55.200 www.TalkRadio.nyc: that's not really what belonging is about. Like we all, they're all different. You don't have to agree with every single thing, every thought I have in order for us to feel belonging. So I'm curious
00:27:55.570 --> 00:27:58.880 www.TalkRadio.nyc: if there's anything in your belonging framework
00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:02.169 www.TalkRadio.nyc: around trying to sort of navigate that
00:28:02.410 --> 00:28:07.680 www.TalkRadio.nyc: that tension of we can experience differences and still belong.
00:28:09.230 --> 00:28:32.999 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Yes, so it's the orientation parts, right? So if you think about belong, I call the O orientation world orientation or location orientation, and that really speaks to cultural intelligence right? And that is the idea that people are different, right as I'm orienting myself. I'm orienting myself in relation to the world around me.
00:28:33.160 --> 00:29:03.000 www.TalkRadio.nyc: An orientation literally requires me to know where I am right and where I am is going to be completely different from where I was before, because that's where I'm trying to belong in this new space. If it was a place where I was comfortable. I kind of know everybody. I don't need this. So every time we enter into new space, new work experiences, and all of that part of the orientation that we must do, I think, or you know, I state in the book is that we need to get to know the people around us. So just like you were saying with the volleyball.
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:23.759 www.TalkRadio.nyc: We need to get to know the customs, the practices, all of those things, you know, can help us situate ourselves, because the quicker we get to know those things, the quicker we can know if this is a space that we really want to be in right, because we do have, you know, choices in terms of I mean, sometimes the choices are forced.
00:29:23.760 --> 00:29:37.079 www.TalkRadio.nyc: but we do have a choice. And so for me, it's that the orientation aspect of it to say, how do I situate myself in this new space or place that has people who are different from me
00:29:37.570 --> 00:30:03.019 www.TalkRadio.nyc: now, not everybody's going to take up this challenge or this responsibility and do things. And so we we need to be aware of that as well like you're saying some people feel like, you know, cultural intelligence is for those people. I don't need it, but I always say that everyone comes into a space, especially in the workspace with different cultures, even if we're all from the same part of the world because the culture could be the family you're raised in
00:30:03.800 --> 00:30:08.139 www.TalkRadio.nyc: the school. You went to the town. You live in all of those things
00:30:08.300 --> 00:30:16.720 www.TalkRadio.nyc: kind of coales together, right? And people carry those things along with them consciously, unconsciously. So, yeah.
00:30:16.930 --> 00:30:33.870 www.TalkRadio.nyc: yeah, absolutely. It makes me think of a couple of things that tie into navigating workplace politics and also team dynamics and team development with workplace politics. One of the things that are that is in my book is around.
00:30:34.276 --> 00:30:52.579 www.TalkRadio.nyc: doing an environmental scan anytime. You're in a new setting, and you're trying to understand how to create change, or how can I speak up in a situation? The 1st thing is understanding your context, and an environmental scan is asking all kinds of questions.
00:30:52.620 --> 00:31:07.739 www.TalkRadio.nyc: to understand what was the history and who has power here, and who makes decisions? And how are decisions made? And all of these things right? So that is very similar to cultural orientation that you talk about with belonging absolutely
00:31:08.192 --> 00:31:09.400 www.TalkRadio.nyc: the other is
00:31:09.730 --> 00:31:16.230 www.TalkRadio.nyc: that when we do team development. It is one of the most important things before you even get into anything is like.
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:41.310 www.TalkRadio.nyc: can we create a sense of human connection here and a lot of team development sessions include something around connecting as humans and storytelling. Right? If we tell stories about how we were raised, how we were brought up our childhoods. You're going to hear different stories, but you are going to hear some similarities about values, about things that are important to you
00:31:41.450 --> 00:32:10.520 www.TalkRadio.nyc: about you know surprises about, you know, like I was raised in kind of a similar experience, even though it was a totally different town, and all of that creates a sense of belonging. Even when you're totally different in terms of cultural background upbringing town school family, we can have very different experiences and similar. Threads, you know of that that connect us. So
00:32:12.110 --> 00:32:34.680 www.TalkRadio.nyc: When we come back we're reaching another ad break when we come back. Let's dive even more deeply into what else, in addition to this orientation piece, can we do to help bring about more of a sense of belonging? You're listening to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Otito Iwachuku, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:32:35.850 --> 00:33:02.019 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Hey, everybody! It's Tommy Gee, the nonprofit sector connector coming at you from my attic each week here on talkradio Dot, Nyc. I host a program philanthropy and focus nonprofits impact us each and every day, and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their story. Listen each week at 10 Am. Eastern Standard time until 11 am Eastern standard time right here on Talkradionyc.
00:33:02.710 --> 00:33:26.779 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Hi, I'm Linda Marcannico. The a train to Sedona is a memoir about my journey to love and compassion. It's also the name of my new broadcast. On Wednesdays, at 12 noon, when we are spiritual, we embrace possibilities and ideas which strengthen our mind, body, spirit, health, and wisdom. On the A train to Sedona broadcast I plan to interview guests
00:33:26.780 --> 00:33:33.490 www.TalkRadio.nyc: who embrace these expansive practices, join us on Wednesdays at 12 noon on talk, radio. New York City.
00:33:34.930 --> 00:33:44.219 www.TalkRadio.nyc: You're listening to talk radio. nyc@wwwtalkradio.nyc. Now broadcasting 24 HA day.
00:34:06.320 --> 00:34:32.140 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Welcome welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Otito Uluciku, we are talking about your upcoming book, The Belonging Paradox, and you started sharing one part of the acronym orientation. I would love to hear the rest of the acronym of belong what goes into it from your perspective. Okay.
00:34:32.380 --> 00:34:49.730 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I'm smiling so hard or so big. Because while you were speaking, I was thinking, I said, maybe it's us, you know, as organizational psychologists, because really a lot of the practices, or some of the practices I put in the book stem around storytelling.
00:34:49.850 --> 00:35:17.639 www.TalkRadio.nyc: storytelling, I call them, you know, telling your belonging stories, and that's what exactly what you described. And so it's that ability to make meaning. And you know, as different as we are, we're able to make meaning or construct meaning from one another's stories. So the the framework that I developed and I talk about in the book. It's really, I think about it as a wayfarer's tool, right? So the the navigate navigation tools
00:35:17.830 --> 00:35:24.510 www.TalkRadio.nyc: for lived belonging in whatever space you find yourself, and you know it's called the belong Framework.
00:35:24.990 --> 00:35:41.029 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and the B. Really talks about boundaries. And you know, when people talk about boundaries, they say, Oh, you know. But it's this idea of knowing you know where to go or where not to go, because in certain instances there are places where
00:35:41.516 --> 00:35:45.920 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I don't need to go right. So it it wouldn't matter if
00:35:46.796 --> 00:35:51.050 www.TalkRadio.nyc: those spaces accepted me or not or not, because I don't
00:35:51.250 --> 00:36:08.830 www.TalkRadio.nyc: have any need right. I don't see any need that they can satisfy for me now not to say that those spaces are bad at all. But it's this idea of knowing exactly where you should be right. If somebody has said so, I use an example in the book of
00:36:08.830 --> 00:36:32.350 www.TalkRadio.nyc: you know the adult only resorts right. If I have a family I should not be going there. I should know that that is not a space for me, right? So there's no sense in saying I'm going to take my children there and then when I get there, you must. You know you must accept us right. They already told me there are conditions for entry, so that knowledge right of what you call boundary lines. I think it really
00:36:33.266 --> 00:36:48.670 www.TalkRadio.nyc: helps us all as we make our way in the world. And then the ease for empathy right kind of, you know, being able to walk in people's people's shoes, and then the l, it comes from this concept of
00:36:49.152 --> 00:37:06.879 www.TalkRadio.nyc: not holding tight right to outcomes right like being loose in, you know, in our outlook to life and to different spaces. I talked about the O already, which is that orientation, you know, and then the n is like
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.799 www.TalkRadio.nyc: needed. Right? I. And that's why I said.
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:18.140 www.TalkRadio.nyc: when we enter into spaces, we need to know that there's a need, you know, for us in those spaces. Right like you, said the school
00:37:18.500 --> 00:37:29.150 www.TalkRadio.nyc: that gave me when I like. If I go back to my graduate school experience the school that gave me at the admission. There was a need right? Why they asked me to come in there. They needed students.
00:37:29.150 --> 00:37:55.399 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and so, you know, I need to know that my presence there was not obituary right like you said you invited me into this space, and that means that I'm here to fulfill a need right within this space. And then the G right. It's not something that you may find in a lot of organizational, you know, psychology kind of things. But I talked about grace. The concept of, you know, being graceful or grace filled
00:37:55.400 --> 00:38:22.339 www.TalkRadio.nyc: to know that you know everyone is walking a journey, and so we have to be. We have to give Grace right when mistakes happen, and they will happen right where belonging gets impinged or impacted, we need to be able to look at it right from that perspective of perhaps there's something here I don't understand. It's not always about the way that I'm looking at it. I need to make room for other interpretations.
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:31.399 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Wow! I love this so much. There's there's a a bunch of things that you talk about that I don't hear very much.
00:38:32.180 --> 00:38:42.850 www.TalkRadio.nyc: When people talk about belonging, and some of what you shared around boundaries.
00:38:43.634 --> 00:38:51.495 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Not holding tight, you know, being loose. And I want to hear more about that in just a second knowing
00:38:51.980 --> 00:38:56.985 www.TalkRadio.nyc: that you're needed in a certain space, and where your presence is needed?
00:38:57.530 --> 00:39:02.739 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and maybe also around the grace as well. There's something about.
00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:06.730 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I think the way that we've interpreted belonging
00:39:06.860 --> 00:39:09.909 www.TalkRadio.nyc: is I should be able to belong in all spaces.
00:39:10.660 --> 00:39:15.160 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and that means we're in for a whole lot of disappointment
00:39:15.670 --> 00:39:22.570 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and a whole lot of shock when we end up in a space where it doesn't make any sense
00:39:23.600 --> 00:39:32.759 www.TalkRadio.nyc: because of the grouping or the requirements. As you said the entry, you know.
00:39:33.790 --> 00:39:36.070 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and it makes me think a lot about like
00:39:36.460 --> 00:39:42.410 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I've I've because I've I've been growing my own leadership development community membership program.
00:39:42.790 --> 00:40:04.350 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I think a lot about community. I think a lot about how to create safe spaces. I've been in a lot of communities that have not been safe, not, you know, have really disappointed me. And I was actually terrified to create my own space because of those bad experiences. You, too. Okay, right? So, but what I, what I've
00:40:04.660 --> 00:40:13.309 www.TalkRadio.nyc: noticed about like the application of, for example, group coaching to a community space is group coaching always has ground rules.
00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:24.100 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Group coaching always has. Who's in and who's out what is within the scope of this? What is not in the scope of this. Why would you opt in? Why would you? Opt out of this kind of program?
00:40:24.260 --> 00:40:40.041 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Community spaces is the same right? You need to know what you're getting yourself into. Who is the community for, and not for whether. It will speak to you. All of these things need to be explicit, and it's rarely, explicitly stated now.
00:40:40.750 --> 00:40:46.980 www.TalkRadio.nyc: yes, there are some spaces that are unfairly discriminatory and biased.
00:40:47.260 --> 00:41:10.719 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and don't say it. And then other places that are unfairly discriminatory and biased, and do say it. And those are problems kind of outside. I think the scope of what you're trying to say. So tell me more about like how you distinguish between spaces that are more on this discriminatory side versus spaces that are trying to be hopefully clear
00:41:10.850 --> 00:41:17.869 www.TalkRadio.nyc: about the boundaries about. You know what's needed of you, in what way and those kinds of things.
00:41:18.430 --> 00:41:26.540 www.TalkRadio.nyc: So there's an example I use in the book, and no offense to. You know the Harley Davidson writers right. But that's a space, I said to myself.
00:41:26.910 --> 00:41:51.339 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I'm not a motorcycle person. I already know this right? So there's nothing I'm going to go look for in that community. Meanwhile this is a tightly knit community. They know each other, they have like certain symbols. I'll say right. The jackets, the whatever else they use to kind of identify themselves outside of owning those gleaming. You know, machines that I really admire, but you know I know I'm never going to get on one. So
00:41:51.340 --> 00:42:05.019 www.TalkRadio.nyc: in that space they may not necessarily say to you, this is what is needed to require that this is what is needed to belong, or this is it? But you can see it right? So it's almost like unspoken. But it's overt. It's not covert at all. They're not trying to.
00:42:05.300 --> 00:42:27.209 www.TalkRadio.nyc: you know, hide their spaces. But then you think about spaces like, you know, 3rd spaces, community spaces the park, and all of that everyone should be able to use those spaces. So when I see a person telling me, Oh, you cannot do this because of this. My 1st instance, is to ask, who are you to say that to me? Right? That's kind of my instinct. Because I feel like
00:42:27.210 --> 00:42:47.579 www.TalkRadio.nyc: this space here is open space, right. So I use again the example of you know, the luxury or adult only resorts. Those tell you very clearly what is required for entry, so it would be ludicrous of another person to say, Hey, you know. Yes, I'm here with my child, that you must allow me entry because it's a resource. And so.
00:42:48.030 --> 00:42:54.260 www.TalkRadio.nyc: The the question, I think, then, or the dissonance for many people is when you enter into those spaces
00:42:54.380 --> 00:43:07.620 www.TalkRadio.nyc: that are literally said to be for all right. I come again back to school, right? A school a public school will tell you about, you know, making sure that every child is educated.
00:43:07.640 --> 00:43:25.980 www.TalkRadio.nyc: But then within each classroom based on the teacher based on, you know, I would say, the biases that we all bring with us. Every child has almost like a very different experience within the same school. And so it's those kinds of spaces I feel like. That's where my, you know.
00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:33.229 www.TalkRadio.nyc: my, whatever it is, gets agitated to say. But you said, the contract here
00:43:33.230 --> 00:43:58.259 www.TalkRadio.nyc: is that every child here should get a good education. Now, what I consider good versus another family may be different, but at least the basic minimum should be met, and no child should have to be, you know, discriminated against, I would say in this space, whether overtly or covertly. So those are the kinds of things to say for us. What do we expect of the spaces? Right? Another space for many people would be. Maybe
00:43:58.580 --> 00:44:19.219 www.TalkRadio.nyc: you know faith communities right to come into the spaces. They literally will say, you belong here. Right? That's kind of the messaging that we give to our students and all that. But then, when they come in like happened to me in graduate school, their belonging experiences are so different, right? Based on who is in the room, who is not in the room based on so many things.
00:44:19.220 --> 00:44:38.039 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and then I think the part that then adds a bit of insult to injury is that no one believes you sometimes when you're telling the stories, or they just like minimize the story. And so from that point of minimization. Like I said, you carry around some wounds that are not visible, but then you take it into spaces and it's like
00:44:38.670 --> 00:44:59.919 www.TalkRadio.nyc: you start. You show up a certain way, and people wonder what happened right? Most times. It's because of, you know, the previous belonging experiences. But then I think part of the work that we need to do is to be able to shed those things off and know that every space we enter is its own space. Right? You don't bring in as best as you can. You know the clutter
00:44:59.920 --> 00:45:21.410 www.TalkRadio.nyc: from past experiences. Yeah. Yeah. And is that what you mean by not holding tight the loose part. Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. Yeah, which is not easy. We hold on to a lot as humans. It is not easy. It is not easy. And that's why I said this relieved like it's not something you learn. And then that's it.
00:45:21.410 --> 00:45:35.329 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Every space is going to, you know, present itself differently. And so you have to be ready like, I talk about this concept of evocation, and I talk about it a lot, because, you know, as a black woman.
00:45:35.530 --> 00:45:42.909 www.TalkRadio.nyc: many times people would stereotype or say certain things about, you know the culture or whatever.
00:45:43.070 --> 00:45:51.229 www.TalkRadio.nyc: But then I got to realize that there are certain spaces you enter. Even if you do nothing at all. You don't do anything at all. You just come in.
00:45:51.690 --> 00:46:19.780 www.TalkRadio.nyc: It's almost like you entering into that space already changes the atmosphere for the people, because they're not used to seeing a person like you. Right? And you know, I work in healthcare and in education. So these are 2 primary areas where this is to me has been a thing. It's almost like they're just not used to it. And it has nothing to do with you. It's just the people in the environment are like reacting to say, Who is this person? Right? What is this new person? And so then they start to again send out signals to you
00:46:20.410 --> 00:46:36.490 www.TalkRadio.nyc: that you then react to right. And all of this is being done on a subliminal level. And so that's what I always say. Let's bring it out into the open right. I schooled a little bit in the South, and I said there are certain places that I would rather be in terms of just
00:46:36.880 --> 00:47:06.219 www.TalkRadio.nyc: environmental signals, right? Because if a person doesn't like you and they show it, that's back to the boundaries, then I know I don't need to, you know. Try to be friends with this person, because they've shown me that they don't want to be friends, but there are times when, because of the shared space, we we will have to be friends right like I remember moving, and our next door, neighbor, I will not say the city, but you know, came to say hello to us the very 1st day we landed with a holster gun on his hip.
00:47:06.790 --> 00:47:26.499 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and I was looking at him like, Okay, what are you trying to tell me? But this is our next door, neighbor? And so I said, No, but the way I grew up where I grew up. Neighbors are like family, right? They're the people that if you left something, if you left your stove on they will go turn it off for you. And so, you know, it was kind of
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:38.869 www.TalkRadio.nyc: what to do. Went back to a shared, shared, you know, normal artifact or make food for the holidays. I sent some make food for whatever occasion. I sent some to him.
00:47:39.050 --> 00:48:01.030 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and we became the best of friends, such that this person cried when we were moving, you know. And so there are instances like that where you do have to breach the divide. But because the same thing happened with the next door, neighbor, and he, like, returned the food. Didn't want anything to do with us. That's the boundary, I know. Okay, this person I've stretched out my arm, and you know my arm of fellowship. They don't want anything to do with me.
00:48:01.030 --> 00:48:12.319 www.TalkRadio.nyc: so I leave them alone. I'm not going to keep trying, you know, to be friends with them and keep getting rebuffed, because then it becomes matter and just focus my attention
00:48:12.460 --> 00:48:38.590 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and my energy on the ones that have, you know, made room, too, right for that back and forth. So that's the idea of that boundary. And so that piece sometimes is hard for people to comprehend, because most times we internalize it and think it's something about me as a person. And many times it's not. It's just the environment, right that that's almost like sends a signal, and then we react to that. And then you see this
00:48:38.590 --> 00:48:45.259 www.TalkRadio.nyc: unspoken dynamics right? That then comes to fore as you as you continue to do the work.
00:48:45.300 --> 00:49:02.770 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Yeah, those are really, really great examples. We are reaching an ad break. So I will have a few more follow-ups after the ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Atito Uicuku, who is the author of the
00:49:02.850 --> 00:49:20.529 www.TalkRadio.nyc: the belonging paradox. So we'll be right back in just a moment. Were you an essential worker during the pandemic? If you needed to learn stages of epilepsy, did you depend on advocates? Did you use new innovations to cope with mental and neurological issues maintaining high quality of life?
00:49:20.830 --> 00:49:28.760 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Mental health are what we all strive for. I'm Frank R. Harrison, host of Frank about health, and each week top healthcare influencers, professionals.
00:49:28.900 --> 00:49:44.809 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and innovators answer these questions and more stay tuned on Thursdays at 5 Pm. On Talkradio, dot Nyc. And I will continue to be frank about health with all of you. Are you a conscious co-creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness.
00:49:45.070 --> 00:50:01.170 www.TalkRadio.nyc: I'm Sam Lieboch, your conscious consultant, and on my show the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen! Live at our new time on Thursdays, at 12 noon Eastern time.
00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:09.489 www.TalkRadio.nyc: That's the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. Thursdays 12 noon on Talkradionyc.
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:22.330 www.TalkRadio.nyc: You're listening to talk radio nyc@wwwtalkradio.nyc. Now broadcasting 24 HA day.
00:50:43.040 --> 00:51:00.060 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Welcome welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Otito Uicuku, and she is the author of the belonging paradox, and she just went through some really juicy. Great examples of how you can think about
00:51:00.180 --> 00:51:22.590 www.TalkRadio.nyc: per framework belong, and especially around the boundaries which I found very insightful as well as kind of the reciprocity necessary to evaluate the boundary, setting. What I have to try and test out in order to evaluate boundaries, as well as setting my own boundaries. Now, one of the things I think is very fascinating. That you mentioned
00:51:22.900 --> 00:51:36.529 www.TalkRadio.nyc: to me before is that you have found that certain professions, and especially like the helping professions of all professions seem rife with behaviors that can actually lead to or reinforce
00:51:36.720 --> 00:51:39.140 www.TalkRadio.nyc: a lack of belonging.
00:51:39.300 --> 00:51:53.020 www.TalkRadio.nyc: And I think I have a sense of this myself within our profession of psychology and certain subsections of psychology. But I would love to hear more about what you have seen around this.
00:51:58.670 --> 00:52:27.859 www.TalkRadio.nyc: It's interesting because one of the ways that you can actually use to expand belonging right. The consciousness of belonging is this contact, like positive contact, making sure that people from different. You know, groups and different cultures come together in a cooperative atmosphere. And so with the helping professions. Many of us go in with this concept of doing good right? So we want to do good. We want to help people. We want to make sure that the world is a better place.
00:52:27.960 --> 00:52:34.069 www.TalkRadio.nyc: But then you get into these places, and it looks like, you know, the people who come in there
00:52:34.510 --> 00:52:55.489 www.TalkRadio.nyc: almost like many times, are very driven right driven to achieve that goal that they want to achieve. And so you have, you know, what you call highly ambitious people, very driven. And so you can imagine having a cluster of this kind of people, right? I don't want to use the word type a or anything. But you have this cluster. And so you get into this
00:52:55.680 --> 00:53:08.789 www.TalkRadio.nyc: almost like high levels of competition. So sometimes the goal is even forgotten, all in the bid of who can do the most good right. And so once you have competition, conscious or unconscious.
00:53:09.340 --> 00:53:38.570 www.TalkRadio.nyc: the belonging levels go down. Because now people start to exhibit certain behaviors and certain things that then, you know, impact other people around, in spite of the fact that all of you are there for this subordinate goal. Right? So I don't know what it says with with, you know the professions, but it's like, look, you know, we're all here to be teachers. Right? Yes, winning teacher of the year is a good goal. But let's not forget that we're here for the students right in that sense. So
00:53:39.420 --> 00:53:51.710 www.TalkRadio.nyc: yeah, absolutely. And you know, even clinically right, if we're talking psychologists or people who who go into any helping profession where they're diagnosing
00:53:51.820 --> 00:54:15.440 www.TalkRadio.nyc: right? What is diagnosis? You either are or are not, or you have this problem, or you don't have this problem, or you have this other problem, it automatically categorizes. And if you take it a step too far, you're you're going to stigmatize unnecessarily or put people in buckets where.
00:54:15.570 --> 00:54:41.426 www.TalkRadio.nyc: frankly, the behavior is a spectrum like it's on a it's on a continuum right and and we find that in all kinds of behaviors and experiences and identities. Right? It? It's actually on on a, we're, we're all human beings. We just function in different ways and different experiences. So there's a risk there of calling people in and out right
00:54:42.190 --> 00:54:51.439 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Now, I wish I could talk with you forever, but I also recognize that we're nearing the end here. If people want to find out more about you and your work, where can they go
00:54:51.520 --> 00:55:15.069 www.TalkRadio.nyc: so you can find me on Linkedin, like Mira said, so you won't find many of people with my name, and then my websites right? So yes, that's my website. Com. And if you click on the books, you will learn more about the belonging products, how to order and how to join the community. So yeah.
00:55:15.460 --> 00:55:18.253 www.TalkRadio.nyc: excellent, excellent. And
00:55:19.820 --> 00:55:26.930 www.TalkRadio.nyc: audience. What is one thing you took away from your time today with Dr. Otito?
00:55:27.020 --> 00:55:49.479 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Share it with us on Linkedin and@talkradio.nyc. So we could cheer you on so we could hear more about. So we can support right? We'd love to hear from you. We're also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, twitch, apple spotify Amazon Podcasts all over the place. So if today's episode resonated with you.
00:55:49.480 --> 00:56:10.600 www.TalkRadio.nyc: share it with a colleague or leave a review. And if you're looking for more personalized support or leadership or team coaching head to towerscope.com to schedule a consultation. Again. You can also reach out to Dr. Atito, and I'm going to spell it for you so that you can find her website easily. OTIT O,
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:26.189 www.TalkRadio.nyc: IWUC. HUKW. U, okay.com find her website. It's beautiful. It's got lots and lots of things about the different projects that she's doing, including the belonging paradox and her community.
00:56:26.640 --> 00:56:48.370 www.TalkRadio.nyc: And the stuff I talk about here on this show is also part of my research-based strategic leadership pathway roadmap that I use to help socially conscious organizational misfits on their leadership journeys to help out and to learn more about us. You can go to gotowerscope.com. You could also go check out my books, millennials, guide to workplace politics or the workbook.
00:56:48.590 --> 00:57:09.960 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and just want to thank you. Talkradio dot Nyc. For hosting. Thank you for joining me on this journey together we will navigate the complexities of leadership, and emerge stronger on the other side, and learn about belonging from Dr. Atito. This is Dr. Mira bronchu, signing off until next time. Stay steady, stay present and keep building those hard skills.
00:57:10.100 --> 00:57:15.669 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Take care, everybody. Thank you. Dr. Atito. Thank you, Mira. Bye, everybody
Talking Alternative Broadcasting
392 Central Park West Suite 17R - New York, NY 10025
Privacy Policy · Terms & Conditions
Thank You for Visiting TALKRADIO.NYC © 2022.
