EPISODE SUMMARY:
1) Understand the details of the current psychedelic bills in NY and NJ
2) Get an understading of psychedelic psilocybin centers in Oregon and Colorado and what we can learn from them.
3) Legal perspective of psychedelics at the federal level.
4) How does cannabis rescheduling effect the psychedelics landscape.
5) The new administrations potential position on cannabis/psychedelics
6) A patients persepctive on the leagal landscape and how its effecting him getting treatment.
7) Learn aall about cluster headaches and why the call them suicide headaches.
8) Learn which psychedelics are most affective for cluster headaches.
Come and learn from one of the shapest legal minds on in the tri-state area all about psychedelics at the local and global levels and hear specifics about the bills in NY and NJ along with programs that have been up and running and just starting out. Explore the potential of where psychedelics are positioned to be in our legal system and in the medical profession. Hear all about the good fight a patient has been putting up in the legal system to get psychedelic therpy legislation passed in order to treat one of the most devestating conditions known to man - suicide headaches.
Hosts Gaetano Lardieri and guests Lauren Dayton and Joe McKay explore the devastating impact of cluster headaches, often called the "suicide headache" due to their extreme pain and lack of effective treatments. They discuss the challenges of misdiagnosis, ineffective medications, and the urgent need for greater awareness and advocacy to improve care for sufferers. As the episode progresses, they hint at an exciting discussion about the potential of psychedelics in offering relief—giving hope to those seeking innovative solutions for chronic pain and well-being.
Joe McKay and Lauren Dayton share their transformative experiences using psychedelics to manage cluster headaches, revealing how psilocybin not only relieved their excruciating pain but also improved their mental health and overall well-being. Despite societal stigma, they emphasize the importance of advocacy, education, and community-driven research in shifting perceptions and expanding access to alternative treatments. Their work with Cluster Busters has empowered thousands of sufferers, demonstrating that natural, science-backed solutions can profoundly enhance happiness and quality of life.
New York and New Jersey are at the forefront of potential psychedelic reform, with multiple bills aiming to expand access to psilocybin for health and wellness, including a personal use permit program. Advocates like Joe McKay and Lauren Dayton stress the importance of breaking stigma, funding research, and ensuring safe, regulated access, particularly for veterans and first responders who could benefit from these treatments. As legislative momentum builds nationwide, they encourage individuals to engage with lawmakers, support ongoing studies, and push for policies that prioritize holistic well-being.
The final segment highlights the urgent need for better education in hospitals regarding cluster headaches, with advocates like Lauren Dayton taking the initiative to inform medical professionals and push for systemic change. Joe McKay shares the profound impact of finding a supportive community through Cluster Busters, emphasizing how connecting with others facing similar struggles has been life-changing. The episode concludes with a powerful message about the importance of alternative wellness, advocacy, and redefining work-life balance, encouraging individuals to seek happiness through informed choices and compassionate support networks.
00:00:45.370 --> 00:00:55.250 Gaetano Lardieri: Welcome to the happy spot Podcast on Talkradio dot Nyc. Sponsored by Jack Thomas. I'm your special guest host, Gaetano Lardiri.
00:00:55.250 --> 00:01:16.349 Gaetano Lardieri: I am a cannabis and psychedelics, researcher and advocate for many years and professionally as a consultant in these 2 spaces for the last 11 years. In this special podcast series, we'll dive deep into all things. Medical cannabis and psychedelics, exploring how these compounds can transform lives, reduce stigma and advance groundbreaking research.
00:01:16.350 --> 00:01:42.750 Gaetano Lardieri: drawing from my experience and connections with advocates, scientists, therapists, industry leaders, and so on. I'll introduce you to some of the most fascinating innovative minds in cannabis, psychedelic science, medicine research insurance and beyond. Get ready for an eye-opening journey into these dynamic industries and beyond just a quick disclaimer. The podcast doesn't substitute for legal or medical advice. And we don't condone the use of illegal substances.
00:01:42.800 --> 00:02:03.720 Gaetano Lardieri: Welcome to our 4th podcast in this special series, which will feature 2 special guests, Lauren Cohen, Dayton, Esquire, and Joe Mckay, retired. Nypd firefighter. This talk today is about cluster headaches. That is a very important topic I have been interested in advocating for now, for several years since I met Joe and Lauren
00:02:03.720 --> 00:02:17.750 Gaetano Lardieri: without further ado. Before I go into asking you questions in our discussion, please introduce yourselves, and tell us a little bit about who you are and what you are, what your involvement is with cluster busters, ladies first, st Lauren.
00:02:18.380 --> 00:02:48.379 Lauren Dayton: Thank you so much, Guy, and thank you to the happy spot for having us on this program. Today I'm excited to be here. So I am a lawyer, a councilwoman, a mom, an advocate, and about 12 years ago became a cluster headache sufferer, and ever since then I have attempted to work in headaches and neurological pain disorders, advocacy. And so I'm thrilled to have the platform today to discuss it.
00:02:48.540 --> 00:02:49.940 Lauren Dayton: I'll pass it to Joe.
00:02:51.340 --> 00:02:52.000 Gaetano Lardieri: Joe.
00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:52.890 Gaetano Lardieri: Yes.
00:02:52.890 --> 00:03:14.400 Joe Mckay: Hi! I'm Joe Mckay. I'm a retired fdny firefighter from Engine Company 2 0, 1 in Brooklyn. I'm also a an advocate. I've advocated for the 9 11 bill for Burn Pits Bill, and for headache disorders with the Alliance for headache disorders. I'm also a board member of Cluster busters and a cluster headache survivor.
00:03:16.040 --> 00:03:21.639 Gaetano Lardieri: Thank you and welcome Joe and Lauren. Joe. Quick question! Why did you decide to become a firefighter?
00:03:24.350 --> 00:03:40.357 Joe Mckay: yeah, I could say, it's a calling it's definitely a calling, but I have I have family. I have uncles that were on the fire department, you know, Fdny, so since I was a little kid, it was always a dream of mine to become a firefighter as I got older.
00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:50.630 Joe Mckay: yeah, that that calling came to me in my early twenties to take the test, and and I was lucky enough to to do well and get hired so.
00:03:51.820 --> 00:03:58.420 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah, excellent. New York is lucky. And, Joe, tell us a little bit about your experience on 9 11.
00:03:59.100 --> 00:04:14.810 Joe Mckay: Yeah, so I had I had offered to work that tour. But I was off. My company had a fundraiser in on a golf course in Staten Island that day. So my Buddy Shotzi ended up working that tour instead.
00:04:16.158 --> 00:04:20.731 Joe Mckay: we were all on the golf course, when we when we found out what was going on, obviously, and and
00:04:21.976 --> 00:04:28.820 Joe Mckay: we made our way, you know, after the second plane hit we knew it was no accident. We made our way to into downtown Manhattan.
00:04:31.065 --> 00:04:35.824 Joe Mckay: Yeah, unfortunately, Shotzi, my buddy didn't make it
00:04:36.770 --> 00:04:51.170 Joe Mckay: you know, for 343 firefighters were killed that day. 4. 4 of them were from my company, and altogether I was 26. So it was a rough time for all of us, for all New Yorkers and and for the country as well.
00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:59.509 Joe Mckay: Yeah, it was funerals and memorials. And you know, for 6 months, you know, and
00:05:00.880 --> 00:05:13.965 Joe Mckay: I don't need to go over it again. But you know, I'm sure. If you're old enough, you remember what it was like being in New York at that time? It wasn't it wasn't fun. But we, you know, we did what we had to do as New Yorkers to to get the city back up and running.
00:05:14.650 --> 00:05:22.150 Gaetano Lardieri: Absolutely absolute heroes, for sure. And, Joe, what happened to you and your health in the months after 9, 11.
00:05:22.750 --> 00:05:30.449 Joe Mckay: So 6 months. You know, after working on the pile. And like, I said, going to funerals and memorials they were. There were
00:05:30.890 --> 00:05:34.743 Joe Mckay: sometimes as many as 10 a day when we couldn't make them all
00:05:35.390 --> 00:05:43.490 Joe Mckay: I was 6 months out, thinking I can't get, you know, can't get any worse. I was in a not a good in a good place, and I woke up at one in the morning
00:05:43.650 --> 00:05:51.519 Joe Mckay: feeling as if someone had just stabbed me in the eye with a burning hot ice pick. I thought I was. You know. I thought I was having an aneurysm that I was going to die.
00:05:52.092 --> 00:05:54.588 Joe Mckay: I ended up in the emergency room and
00:05:55.331 --> 00:06:05.098 Joe Mckay: After about 2 h the pain went away. And it happened again this the next night. They didn't give me any answers in the emergency room. Nothing. They couldn't tell me what was happening.
00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:25.389 Joe Mckay: 6 weeks after that I was lucky enough to get a proper diagnosis of cluster headache, otherwise known as the Suicide headache. So yeah, so you know, after dealing with the with the loss of 26 people. And you know that I knew online 11 and and everything else. And now I had this pain
00:06:26.130 --> 00:06:33.979 Joe Mckay: condition that I had to deal with for the rest of my life, in which there was no treatment, and limited treatments and and no cure.
00:06:35.170 --> 00:06:40.330 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah. And so, Joe, elaborate a little bit more. Tell us, what cluster headache is actually.
00:06:40.830 --> 00:06:57.839 Joe Mckay: So plus the headache is. It's really a misnomer. It's not a headache, although the pain is in your head. So it's, you know. Technically, it's called a headache, but it's like migraine. It's a primary headache disorder, meaning that nothing else causes the headache.
00:06:57.960 --> 00:07:23.169 Joe Mckay: It is arguably the worst pain known to mankind. Pain is subjective. But there's been a study that asked people that have cluster headache to rate their pain with other things that happen in their life like unmedicated childbirth, and and gunshot victims burn victims. Kidney stones, shingles. You name it, and cluster headache
00:07:23.490 --> 00:07:29.460 Joe Mckay: came out on top. So it's it's very difficult to treat and
00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:34.409 Joe Mckay: unfortunately, over 70% of us have suicidal ideation.
00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:39.808 Joe Mckay: And you know, that's what we're trying to change. We're trying to
00:07:40.380 --> 00:07:43.070 Joe Mckay: Teach people how to live with this disease.
00:07:44.070 --> 00:08:02.299 Lauren Dayton: I'm sorry I'm going to just add, you know, Joe and I, in the past couple of years has been some amazing research and and things that I've read. It's really a neurological pain disorder of your nerves that are through your head, through your eye socket, usually on one side of the face. And that's really it's defining characteristic.
00:08:02.330 --> 00:08:19.299 Lauren Dayton: And it comes on in a very cyclical manner, usually at the same time middle of the night. But someone described this to me in our group, and I think it's a very apropos thing. It's like waking up to a broken bone in the middle of a deep sleep, and that level of pain is how you wake up.
00:08:19.580 --> 00:08:28.930 Lauren Dayton: and I feel that's very accurate, and I have had childbirth, and I would do that again before I suffer my worst attacks and clusters.
00:08:29.660 --> 00:08:56.302 Joe Mckay: Yes, so the the name cluster. It comes because you get them in clusters. You. You get them for weeks or months at a time, and then they then, you know, if you're lucky to be episodic, they go away. 8 attacks a day is not uncommon for a cluster headache software in in peak of cycle. So 8 times a day, anywhere from a half hour to 3 h, you have that burning, stabbing ice pick feeling in your eye.
00:08:57.350 --> 00:08:58.130 Joe Mckay: yeah.
00:08:59.210 --> 00:09:06.750 Gaetano Lardieri: Lauren, let me ask you, how long did it take you to get proper diagnosis of cluster headache? And why do you think that was.
00:09:07.130 --> 00:09:21.489 Lauren Dayton: So I had never heard of this in my entire life, and essentially my internal medicine doctor never heard of this. Nobody in my local hospital ever heard of this. So when I had my 1st attack, it was the middle of the night. I thought I was having a seizure.
00:09:21.640 --> 00:09:30.859 Lauren Dayton: and so I went into the er saying, You know I can't see out of this side of my head, and the level of pain is so intense. Nobody knew what it was.
00:09:31.040 --> 00:09:54.330 Lauren Dayton: and they put me on a morphine drip which did not break it, and I was there for about 48 h. They sent me home, and the cholesterol headache itself went away. But I don't think anything in the hospital led to that, and I didn't know it was going to come again. I had never known this. I had a newborn at the time, so I was already up in the middle of the night. My sleep cycle was already a mess with a newborn.
00:09:54.420 --> 00:10:15.419 Lauren Dayton: You know. It just kept happening repeatedly a couple times a week, and I kept saying, Well, you know I must have a tumor. I got Mris, I wound up, going to various neurologists who didn't even diagnose me. It actually took me 4 and a half years before I heard the word cluster! Headache.
00:10:15.630 --> 00:10:26.940 Lauren Dayton: and somebody said, Oh, one sided eye, you must have clusters, and I said, I don't know what that is. And then it took me about another 2 years to find the right neurologist who understood the condition.
00:10:27.750 --> 00:10:49.129 Lauren Dayton: and during that time I was on so much medication, so many side effects of the medication weight gain, brain fog. I had passed out. I had low blood pressure. I had heart issues. I couldn't drive nothing, by the way was taking away the pain I was on daily medicines that would not fix this.
00:10:49.140 --> 00:11:01.350 Lauren Dayton: So it wasn't until I actually met Joe and a group called cluster busters that I really started understanding the condition and finding the right doctors and the right diagnosis.
00:11:01.520 --> 00:11:09.789 Lauren Dayton: We are lucky. One of the things we're working on as advocacy groups and cluster busters is to get information to hospitals and doctors.
00:11:10.690 --> 00:11:15.860 Lauren Dayton: I can't say it enough. I've now taught my own internal doctor all about this condition.
00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:21.790 Lauren Dayton: and I think that patient advocacy is really sometimes the best way for you to get the right care.
00:11:22.300 --> 00:11:32.350 Gaetano Lardieri: Absolutely advocacy. Talk to your legislators, I agree. 100%. And, Joe, let me ask you, were prescribed medical treatments helpful for your cluster headaches.
00:11:32.690 --> 00:11:43.278 Joe Mckay: No Limited limited success with with a steroid taper early on when I started getting the attacks. It would take,
00:11:43.950 --> 00:11:57.140 Joe Mckay: you know, it would take a couple of weeks for it to to kick in. But but you know, like Lauren had said about the morphine, there's no painkiller that'll touch the pain. Of course, the headache attack. It's just no painkillers work.
00:11:57.370 --> 00:11:58.730 Joe Mckay: Fentanyl. Nothing.
00:11:59.153 --> 00:12:08.850 Joe Mckay: Some of the other meds, you know that I had gotten were, you know, making me like a zombie? Some of the, you know, the side effects were were horrible.
00:12:10.750 --> 00:12:18.270 Joe Mckay: yeah, it. The only thing that that ever really helped for a short time, like I said, was a steroid tape, a high dose, steroid taper.
00:12:18.750 --> 00:12:20.539 Joe Mckay: but nothing else came close.
00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:25.100 Gaetano Lardieri: No no no other intervention, no other medication.
00:12:25.100 --> 00:12:28.186 Joe Mckay: Well, there was. Yeah. Well, there there is one.
00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:35.919 Joe Mckay: a certain percentage of cluster headache patients do respond to triptans, which is an abortive migraine, abortive drug.
00:12:36.110 --> 00:12:38.090 Joe Mckay: but you can only use it twice a day.
00:12:38.570 --> 00:12:50.690 Joe Mckay: and you know, cluster headache patients can get 8 attacks a day, so you know, any more than 2 doses a day. You can cause problems with your heart, you know. Side effects are aneurysm.
00:12:50.800 --> 00:12:57.800 Joe Mckay: And you know, cardiac embolism, it's not not something you want to be using all that much. But
00:12:58.210 --> 00:13:06.430 Joe Mckay: yeah, there. There was no up until short time ago. There were no drugs brought specifically to market for cluster, headache.
00:13:08.214 --> 00:13:19.699 Gaetano Lardieri: Okay. So when we come back we'll go to break. And when we come back on, ask Joe when you, when you learned that psychedelics may be effective for treatment, for cluster headaches. So let's go to a quick break, and we'll be back in a minute.
00:15:05.140 --> 00:15:16.970 Gaetano Lardieri: Welcome back to talkradio dot nyc. I'm your host, Gaitanna Larderi. So, Joe, let me ask you, tell us about when you learned that psychedelics may be an effective treatment for cluster headache.
00:15:18.380 --> 00:15:46.100 Joe Mckay: So when I 1st got wind of it I was still an active duty firefighter and I kind of read it, and it it just went like, in and out my head real quick. I was like, what what is this about? It was an Internet search. And I was like, yeah, no, that's not happening. It wasn't until many years later, after I had retired. And I had a really bad, a bad cycle that I actually sought out.
00:15:46.470 --> 00:16:05.570 Joe Mckay: you know that search on the Internet and found that there was a study done actually at Harvard with psychedelics as a treatment for cluster headache, and they had a high success rate in that small study. So that was the 1st introduction. You know, for me that psychedelics could be a treatment for cluster headache.
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:11.670 Gaetano Lardieri: And and describe for us, and tell us that 1st time you tried psychedelics for cluster headaches.
00:16:12.820 --> 00:16:15.178 Joe Mckay: So I had. I had
00:16:15.970 --> 00:16:36.270 Joe Mckay: reached out to someone that knew a guy that used to go to grateful dead concerts. And because I knew nothing about psychedelics. I didn't. I? You know I wasn't wasn't into it as a teen or a young adult but yeah, I ended up with a with a small dose and I
00:16:36.300 --> 00:16:51.169 Joe Mckay: a couple. Actually, I should say that I ended up with with some chocolates. It came in a chocolate form, and I didn't know much about it. It was very light. The psychedelic effect was minimal. It was just some, maybe some bright colors other than that, but I had
00:16:51.340 --> 00:17:13.430 Joe Mckay: read that it could be used as a prophylactic. It could stop cluster headaches from coming on. You could stop the cycle altogether. So for for a while I was once every couple of months I was just having a mushroom, and and you know I missed my cycle for 2 years, and I can't. I can't say for sure. If if that was the case, my suspicion is that that there was
00:17:13.430 --> 00:17:34.269 Joe Mckay: that those short doses did keep the cluster headaches away, but it wasn't until 2017, when I had a really really hard time with it, and and I wasn't able to find the grateful dead. Guy couldn't find any, and and I was kind of between a rock and a hard places. That's when I reached out to to cluster busters and and eventually someone
00:17:34.310 --> 00:17:40.830 Joe Mckay: called me back and I was able to get it. And yeah, I had. I had a much more psychedelic experience that time.
00:17:41.262 --> 00:17:48.347 Joe Mckay: But the next day the the attacks were were gone, like they stopped the attacks. And yeah in the in their tracks.
00:17:49.110 --> 00:18:01.850 Joe Mckay: yeah, it also. Shortly after that it also helped me realize during during this psychedelic experience that I I had Ptsd from 9 11,
00:18:02.110 --> 00:18:31.520 Joe Mckay: and that it hit me like a ton of bricks, you know, while I was under the influence of Psilocybin, I could see how I had changed, and at the time I was hooked on prescription painkillers, the doctors were more than happy to give me tramadol and oxycontin. I did have back issues, but I realized during that psilocybin experience that I was taking the painkillers not to numb the physical pain, but to numb the emotional pain.
00:18:31.730 --> 00:18:40.709 Joe Mckay: So I had, you know I had that experience, that one experience I could. I could say it benefited in the way that it stops the pain of cost. The headache.
00:18:40.820 --> 00:18:53.869 Joe Mckay: It woke me up to the fact that I had Ptsd. And helped me get to where I am today, and it also helped me get off of the opiates. So I got a hat trick when it comes to Psilocybin for me. I benefited in 3 ways.
00:18:54.360 --> 00:18:58.850 Gaetano Lardieri: And fantastic. And actually, how do they? How do the psychedelics actually help help you?
00:19:00.310 --> 00:19:02.730 Joe Mckay: So as far as the headaches go.
00:19:03.070 --> 00:19:03.670 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah.
00:19:03.670 --> 00:19:07.040 Joe Mckay: Yeah, that's the that's the 1 million dollar question. It's.
00:19:07.040 --> 00:19:08.220 Lauren Dayton: Theory of all time.
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:37.910 Joe Mckay: Yeah, it's it's more or less like the serotonin. 2. A receptor in the brain is suspect, with cluster headache and a lot of other conditions as well. So the research that's being done, and there isn't a whole lot, unfortunately, because of the funding. But the research is pointing towards 3 different parts of the nervous system, and and that serotonin. 2. A receptor fits nice with
00:19:38.030 --> 00:19:42.290 Joe Mckay: with Psilocybin and and Lsd. And Psychedelics in general, and and
00:19:42.420 --> 00:19:52.949 Joe Mckay: when Albert Hoffman, who 1st synthesized Lsd. He was actually he was working for Sandos. The drug company was actually looking for a treatment for headache.
00:19:53.190 --> 00:20:09.560 Joe Mckay: And if you look at the chemical structure of psychedelic compared to the chemical structure of some of the headache medicines that are on the market today, they're very similar. Of course I'm just a flyman. This is coming from. This is coming from some of the doctors that I've gotten to know over the years.
00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:18.820 Gaetano Lardieri: Understood. And and, Lauren, let me ask you, what does someone in your position, with little or no medical options for pain, relief, do to find solutions.
00:20:19.180 --> 00:20:45.510 Lauren Dayton: You know, it was really hard, like, Joe said. We get put on a ton of medicine that are not effective for our cluster condition. And so I was really desperate. I don't remember how I stumbled upon cluster busters, but at some point I actually met Joe Mckay and another group of people that suffered from this, and he was. Joe was the 1st person I'd ever met who had the same condition.
00:20:45.969 --> 00:20:57.479 Lauren Dayton: And Joe has been a mentor an advocate, and just the greatest person of my support system. I I can't say thank you enough. I tell him he saves my life all the time.
00:20:57.780 --> 00:21:13.479 Lauren Dayton: and he did because I was suicidal, and I am super happy in my life, and I adore my family, and the last thing I wanted was to actually commit suicide, and I had told my husband so many times like this, pain is going to take me down.
00:21:13.730 --> 00:21:42.369 Lauren Dayton: So I actually found Joe at just the right time, really. And he introduced me to cluster busters and cluster busters on his website. Had a lot of informative videos on oxygen therapy, which I did find very effective to break a cycle that you're already in, but to stave the cycles off completely. I hadn't tried anything yet, and then I actually in person met Bob Wold, who was the founder of Cluster Busters.
00:21:42.370 --> 00:21:51.999 Lauren Dayton: and he I went up, and I introduced myself at a very small gathering, and he, I said, I haven't tried psilocybin. He looked me right in the face, and he said, You need to
00:21:52.000 --> 00:22:11.489 Lauren Dayton: like you need to. But you know Psilocybin, not being legal, was very difficult for me to make that decision. You know I hold an elected official position. I am an attorney. This is still class one scheduled drug in every State, and so to make that leap
00:22:11.550 --> 00:22:14.080 Lauren Dayton: of faith was really hard.
00:22:14.290 --> 00:22:28.499 Lauren Dayton: and to find psilocybin that I believed was safe and not laced with anything else, or not causing any other side effects also was so important to me. So I'm very lucky I had a friend give me my 1st dose
00:22:28.550 --> 00:22:48.129 Lauren Dayton: in a pill form that I took, and I took a very low dose because I was very nervous, and I remember calling and saying, nothing's happening. And and they said, Well, take more, and then I took them all, and then I was like, Oh, but I will tell you that I didn't have cluster headaches for like 9 months after that.
00:22:48.550 --> 00:22:49.000 Gaetano Lardieri: Right now.
00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:57.099 Lauren Dayton: Groundbreaking to my life. Just unbelievable. And I've last year, was it the year before
00:22:57.370 --> 00:23:19.020 Lauren Dayton: it was the last December? I didn't do my fall dose. I usually take it twice a year, and I wound up all of December in such pain and suffering in a cluster headache that I couldn't break with anything. It took almost 30 days to break out of that cycle, and I said, I will never miss a dose, and you know it doesn't have to be a lot, but whatever it does.
00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:43.969 Lauren Dayton: you know, Joe was talking about the serotonin two-way receptors. I try to research and read the Nih papers on this, and they do say it reforms new neurotransmitters. So maybe it's forming new connections. However, it does. I'm also not in the science world. So my lay person idea is that it's helping my nerves and reforming connections to go around things that are damaged.
00:23:45.285 --> 00:23:47.840 Lauren Dayton: Whatever it is, it's life changing.
00:23:48.150 --> 00:23:54.259 Gaetano Lardieri: It's yeah. It's working that's fantastic. And and, Joe, tell us about the advocacy work that you do.
00:23:55.470 --> 00:23:57.800 Joe Mckay: Yeah, so we need
00:23:58.010 --> 00:24:09.089 Joe Mckay: in the United States right now. There are only 11 states there that don't have some kind of psychedelic legislation that's been introduced. Right now.
00:24:10.100 --> 00:24:16.719 Joe Mckay: I want to say about a dozen States I've met with legislators telling my story. And and you know.
00:24:17.010 --> 00:24:32.200 Joe Mckay: telling the people about cluster headache and and how it's become. You know, the leading treatment amongst the cluster headache community. I also tell my story. You know the hat trick story that I talked about before you know it. It
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:40.539 Joe Mckay: like Lauren had said before. You know, I had thoughts of suicide as well, after those experiences. I
00:24:40.650 --> 00:24:43.780 Joe Mckay: I don't have those thoughts anymore. So I mean, it's
00:24:43.890 --> 00:25:00.959 Joe Mckay: it's literally saved thousands of lives that I could. You know, knowing what I know, from what cluster buses, and speaking to Bob Wald and and others that have and met at conferences thousands of lives, I could say that, and it's not even just here in the States. It's all over the world
00:25:01.070 --> 00:25:03.140 Joe Mckay: that that people know about it.
00:25:04.510 --> 00:25:07.199 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah. So yes, go ahead, Joe.
00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:09.350 Joe Mckay: No, no, I was. Gonna say, the the
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:11.870 Joe Mckay: you want to talk about the bills or.
00:25:11.870 --> 00:25:21.129 Gaetano Lardieri: Well, yeah. So I want to ask Lauren. Lauren, why do you think of public? The public is so resistant to learning and trying and researching alternative solutions for pain.
00:25:22.040 --> 00:25:41.180 Lauren Dayton: So, you know, it's interesting. Even I was myself resistant because I think the concept of the drugs from the 19 seventies has tainted this industry, you know so many of our incredible medicines are nature created. You know, penicillin is your perfect example, you know, mold on an orange.
00:25:41.360 --> 00:25:51.880 Lauren Dayton: and I think that the industry halted looking into these natural solutions when the war on drugs in the seventies and eighties really escalated the harms.
00:25:52.090 --> 00:26:00.789 Lauren Dayton: But so much of what Joe and I do is citizen science. And you know the people who came before me in this cluster world. They
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:19.960 Lauren Dayton: tried different doses and small doses and regulated doses and timed themselves so that they know almost better than the scientists what's going to work. And then we go and we get to tell the scientists at labs and universities. Hey, please try this because we know it works. But
00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:34.309 Lauren Dayton: you know we're so few advocates. And so the idea that something like a ketamine, a psychedelic a Lsd could be from nature and healing. It's just not in the public. And we need to change that perception.
00:26:34.660 --> 00:26:40.410 Gaetano Lardieri: Right. And and Lauren, how has cluster busters helped? Specifically your cluster attacks.
00:26:41.090 --> 00:27:01.089 Lauren Dayton: You know they're educational. It's advocacy, Bob Wald and his incredible team. I know Joe's on the board. They are constantly providing education and information. You know. I didn't know how to use oxygen. I got this huge tank. Everyone said, go get high dose oxygen. I didn't know what to do with it. But they literally had a video. And this is how you do it.
00:27:01.090 --> 00:27:16.950 Lauren Dayton: And that kind of like, I said, Citizen Science, where they have learned techniques, and they're sharing them with other patients and other pain sufferers is just life changing again because I would have no clue. My doctors don't know a lot of this.
00:27:16.950 --> 00:27:29.670 Lauren Dayton: But you know this community that suffers with me has created its own solution. So cluster busters, if anybody is out there listening with cluster headaches or other headache disorders. Please go to their website.
00:27:30.530 --> 00:27:33.360 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah. What's the what's the website? Again? Lauren.
00:27:33.930 --> 00:27:34.969 Lauren Dayton: All a joke.
00:27:34.970 --> 00:27:36.530 Joe Mckay: busterbusters.org.
00:27:36.690 --> 00:27:37.360 Lauren Dayton: Yeah.
00:27:37.360 --> 00:27:38.010 Joe Mckay: Yeah.
00:27:38.180 --> 00:28:05.929 Joe Mckay: And and the study that Lauren was talking about the citizen science, the protocol that was just tested at Yale over the past couple of years actually was a protocol. That cluster bust is designed through citizen science, which is a pulse regime, which is low dose psilocybin. Once every 5 days the study was done at Yale, and it proved the efficacy of of that dose of that pulse regime. So.
00:28:06.730 --> 00:28:14.579 Gaetano Lardieri: Excellent, excellent. Okay, so we'll go to a break, and then when we come back, we'll we'll focus on New York legislation. So let's go to break, and we'll be right back.
00:29:47.510 --> 00:30:01.320 Gaetano Lardieri: Welcome back to Talkradio dot nyc. I'm your host, Gaitanna Lardyri. So, Joe, let me ask you, focusing on New York. Is there legislation that would expand legal access to psychedelics.
00:30:01.950 --> 00:30:19.540 Joe Mckay: Yeah, so there are 4 bills right now that have been introduced. Lindsa Rosenthal has a decrim bill that she put out a couple of years ago. It's still active. Senator Natalia Fernandez and Assemblymember. Pat Burke have a bill as well, actually 2 bills as well.
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:37.710 Joe Mckay: And then we have the chair of the Health Committee in in New York. The Assembly Health Committee, Amy Paulin has a bill as well, which Julia Salazar's a Senator that just signed the companion bill in in the Senate. So this there's 4 bills right now floating around in in Albany, and
00:30:38.560 --> 00:30:40.622 Joe Mckay: we hope we hope they all get done.
00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:52.539 Gaetano Lardieri: Well, can you take a bit of a deeper dive into the pollen, Bill? That's personal. Psilocybin permits? Can you talk? That's very that's fascinating. We talked a little bit about it before. But can you go into a little bit more detail about that show?
00:30:52.540 --> 00:31:03.160 Joe Mckay: Yeah, so it it's the bill is 2142 is the number. And it basically is a adult use. Psilocybin, a permit program.
00:31:03.340 --> 00:31:19.759 Joe Mckay: So to obtain a permit to use psilocybin. Adults would have to undergo a health screening and then also complete a safety and education course that would be given by the State. The bill would also authorize the purchase and cultivation possession.
00:31:19.970 --> 00:31:22.239 Joe Mckay: a personal use of psilocybin
00:31:22.360 --> 00:31:28.220 Joe Mckay: for health and wellness purposes, and it establishes opportunities for psychedelic assisted therapy as well.
00:31:28.723 --> 00:31:57.426 Joe Mckay: The bill would also allow for licensed cultivators. So the the cultivators would be able, you know they grow the mushrooms, and they would be tested. And what have you? And you would know what was. You know what you get in there? And, unlike cannabis, where you would go to a dispensary and get it. The 20. The bill would actually provide for a courier service from the from the grower, you know, from the service center. I'm sorry from the
00:31:58.090 --> 00:32:15.553 Joe Mckay: from the cultivator directly to your home, so there's no, you know there's no dispensary you'd be able to walk in with. So it's it's regulated. You know, you have a safety aspect, the education aspect as well. And I I think that that bill would probably
00:32:16.580 --> 00:32:19.909 Joe Mckay: provide the most access to to, you know, to the most amount of people.
00:32:20.900 --> 00:32:30.079 Gaetano Lardieri: And okay, yeah, that that's an that's an interesting concept an interesting bill. So that's the one that you think has the the best legs.
00:32:30.370 --> 00:32:47.260 Joe Mckay: Yeah, it's it's getting a lot of buzz. You know, like I said, there's 39 other States that that have legislation. You know, in the works. And this bill has been actually the the model itself was proposed decades ago.
00:32:47.723 --> 00:33:13.830 Joe Mckay: And it was just picked up, you know by the Us. Up in New York. As far as you know, giving it a try, you know, putting legislation out there. But there are other States that are looking at this model and there are people that are policy experts that feel that this is probably the best way to go to avoid some of the the pitfalls with the FDA. And what have you?
00:33:14.010 --> 00:33:31.739 Joe Mckay: Yeah, we're really excited about this Bill Allison Hoots is an attorney, one of the attorneys that helped put it together. She did the lion's share of the work, but there was a team in New York that got this bill put together. So we're very excited about all of them, but especially Senator Paul's bill.
00:33:32.060 --> 00:33:34.909 Gaetano Lardieri: That's excellent. Now, is there homegrown any of these bills at all?
00:33:34.910 --> 00:34:00.940 Joe Mckay: Yes, yeah, the polling bill would would provide. If you're a licensed. You know, if you have that permit or license, you know the the wording still up in the air. But if you have the ability, you know from the state, the okay, from the state, you'd be able to grow your own. So someone like myself who has cluster headache I would be able to grow my own mushrooms at home, and they would never leave the house. Yes, it's yeah. I'm sorry.
00:34:01.310 --> 00:34:07.080 Gaetano Lardieri: Now is that regulated in any way? Or is that like, how does that work? Actually well, just.
00:34:07.340 --> 00:34:13.876 Joe Mckay: Yeah. So if you're gonna grow on your, if you're gonna grow on your own, if you have a permit and you're gonna grow on your own.
00:34:14.350 --> 00:34:18.750 Joe Mckay: there's no regulation for that, but but licensed cultivators in the State.
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:25.236 Joe Mckay: So these are basically mushroom farmers. These are the the New York Agricultural Board of
00:34:25.770 --> 00:34:53.130 Joe Mckay: yeah. The Ag. Board in in New York State actually is behind the bill. So mushroom farmers that are growing, you know, regular mushrooms now for you know, for restaurants, or what have you in New York? They would actually take on this task, and they would be you know, testing and potency testing. And what have you that they would have to do? And then you would get the you know, you would get the psilocybin mushrooms. From from these cultivators.
00:34:53.320 --> 00:35:09.649 Gaetano Lardieri: Okay? Oh, excellent! I see. So, Lauren, you recently testified with Joe before a New Jersey legislator. Yet that proposed bill has stalled. What do you think needs to be done to convince States to move on the issue of Psilocybin.
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:28.629 Lauren Dayton: So in New Jersey they're considering a psilocybin bill that is a therapy based bill. So it would be a combination of psilocybin with required therapy in facilities that would be created here in the State. I'm in New Jersey.
00:35:28.660 --> 00:35:51.510 Lauren Dayton: and there was a lot of pushback about who could be allowed to attend the facility. Who could make the decision on who those patients would be? Would it be just doctors? Can it be therapists? Can it be people in this industry and psychedelics. And then there was additional pushback from the. From what I understand the Department of Health.
00:35:52.090 --> 00:35:57.469 Lauren Dayton: they weren't sure that they can get enough support behind the bill.
00:35:57.730 --> 00:36:17.929 Lauren Dayton: We are Joe and I. I say we we're still very hopeful that this bill will move forward here in New Jersey. There was a lot of good discussions with our Assembly and our Senate on the State level. We had a lot of bipartisan support. Everyone saw this as a Health Initiative, which is always welcomed, and
00:36:18.130 --> 00:36:26.020 Lauren Dayton: Joe and I both testified before the Health Committees, and then we testified before the Budget Financing Committee.
00:36:26.450 --> 00:36:28.020 Gaetano Lardieri: Got out of that. I believe.
00:36:28.150 --> 00:36:29.120 Lauren Dayton: Yes.
00:36:29.590 --> 00:36:49.799 Lauren Dayton: and we had very positive reception. So right now, I think we have advocacy groups that are working to keep this bill momentum moving. And I hope so. And if anyone wants to join that coalition, the nice thing here in New Jersey on our bill is that
00:36:49.800 --> 00:37:05.469 Lauren Dayton: we had a lot of wonderful mushroom farmers join our advocacy, and so I do think, in terms of farming and trade and regulation. That was all here and ready to get involved. So you know we are the Garden State. I'd love to see this.
00:37:06.230 --> 00:37:17.580 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah, you're you're you're exactly right. And that's S. Bill Numbers S, 2283. If anyone's interested. And if you're in New Jersey. Call your legislators. Let them know you want that bill to move forward. But go ahead, Joe.
00:37:17.720 --> 00:37:30.660 Joe Mckay: Yeah, no, it's the the legislators that we've been meeting with. We really haven't gotten much resistance. The psilocybin received breakthrough status from the FDA. Back in 2017.
00:37:30.790 --> 00:37:55.569 Joe Mckay: When we go in, we meet with the legislators. We start talking to them. A lot of them are already aware of what's going on with psilocybin, you know, and especially in the veterans, community and 1st responders where veterans and 1st responders are being sent out of the country for psilocybin therapy, and it's charitable organizations that are picking up the cost of that. And and it's really not fair that you know.
00:37:56.020 --> 00:38:14.979 Joe Mckay: Then we send our soldiers to war, and they come back with Ptsd. And we're dealing with this this crisis suicide crisis with veterans, with a number of, you know, almost 22 a day, and yet we can't take care of them here at home, and we got to rely on charitable organizations to send them to Jamaica or Mexico to get this therapy.
00:38:15.490 --> 00:38:38.310 Joe Mckay: Some of the legislators that we met have military experience, and it's the worst kept secret in the military is that Psilocybin could help with with, you know, reintegration into civilian life with veterans and and and just general mental health as well. So the stigma is breaking, and it's going to take.
00:38:38.380 --> 00:38:58.659 Joe Mckay: you know, more stories from from people like Lauren and myself, and and you know, I've met politicians that use psilocybin. I've met judges. I've met sports stars. you know. It's like I said. It's the worst kept secret out there right now, and it's just a matter of
00:38:58.750 --> 00:39:07.760 Joe Mckay: you know, each State being brave enough to, you know, and and smart enough to to bring it forward to the masses. So that's what we're hoping to do.
00:39:07.950 --> 00:39:15.459 Gaetano Lardieri: I agree, and I hope New York and New Jersey lead, and if we can't take care of our vets and our soldiers and end of life, people at end of life.
00:39:15.460 --> 00:39:16.730 Joe Mckay: Absolutely. Yeah.
00:39:17.150 --> 00:39:32.629 Gaetano Lardieri: We felt falling apart as a society. So let's at least take care of those groups. Lauren, do you? Do you think psychedelic legislation through legalization is possible, what path would would get passed? Do you think.
00:39:32.950 --> 00:39:39.950 Lauren Dayton: You know, it's such a chicken and egg problem. I think you know, major hospitals and doctors aren't able to test
00:39:40.220 --> 00:39:46.310 Lauren Dayton: using psilocybin and other psychedelics, because they're, you know, class one.
00:39:47.020 --> 00:40:04.100 Lauren Dayton: And without that research and data we can't prove that legalization could be safe and effective. So it really is chicken and egg. What I really think needs to happen is that States need to allow medical research, and it should be across the board on a Federal level
00:40:04.100 --> 00:40:24.029 Lauren Dayton: that psychedelics, including psilocybin and ketamine, can be tested. And then we have a much more realistic picture. Both the Nih and the Center for Disease control. We're tracking some data. I'm fearful that that data will not continue. But I'm
00:40:24.070 --> 00:40:27.380 Lauren Dayton: remain hopeful that science will always win the day.
00:40:28.240 --> 00:40:41.019 Lauren Dayton: and I will say that I don't see States saying that this is safe to go off of that class one schedule until there is real data behind it. Real patient data.
00:40:41.550 --> 00:41:04.789 Gaetano Lardieri: I have a saying, and God, we trust everyone else bring data. Right? It's data data data. You're right. And Lauren, speaking of the Nih. The Nih has allotted enough funding for painful headache conditions, but they have created brain V-r-a-in, which is supposed to focus on neurological conditions. How should patients be advocating for funding and research.
00:41:05.410 --> 00:41:26.579 Lauren Dayton: You know, this was something I was very excited about the Nih actually recognized. I don't remember exact years, but recently, in the past couple of years that all of these neurological pain disorders need to be studied and focused on, including so many debilitating headache conditions that Joe and I both advocate with. So
00:41:26.680 --> 00:41:37.340 Lauren Dayton: they created brain. And it was supposed to bring together some of the brightest minds in neurological disorders and neurologists, scientists, researchers.
00:41:37.530 --> 00:42:04.349 Lauren Dayton: From what I understand. A lot of it has stalled. It does need to be funded. So in every State. People should be talking to their Congress people, their representatives, and saying, please continue to fund this initiative. You know. I think headaches are one of the biggest disruptors of our economy. People stay home from work. They can function in their home, in their daily lives because of neurological conditions.
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:18.660 Lauren Dayton: And you know, they are living with pain on an everyday basis. That's a very high level of pain, I mean cluster headaches is extreme. I can't even open eyes. But you know, on this brain initiative with the Nih it was
00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:20.149 Lauren Dayton: very hopeful.
00:42:21.080 --> 00:42:28.259 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah. And we have a new administration. Any thoughts on where you think the new administration is going to go, Joe, you had your hand up. Yes.
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:39.298 Joe Mckay: Yeah. Well, let's talk about the new administration. Move on to that. Yeah. So rfk, Jr. Has mentioned in the past that psychedelics.
00:42:39.930 --> 00:42:46.638 Joe Mckay: you know, it should be should be looked at and and should be brought out out of the shadows because it is.
00:42:46.970 --> 00:43:09.639 Joe Mckay: There is a lot of science. There were decades of science for psychedelics as a treatment for chronic pain. Going back to the Korean War, where veterans were coming back from the Korean War amputees, and they were using mirror box therapy in combination with Lsd. And they were having tremendous tremendous success in treating phantom limb pain.
00:43:09.650 --> 00:43:26.030 Joe Mckay: There's also other chronic pain conditions that have been researched with psychedelics that show promise. There is some work being done by a doctor named Joel Castellanos that I'm aware of in California.
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:48.090 Joe Mckay: as well as some other places around the world. So it's it's slow. More money needs to be put into research like Lauren was saying before most of the studies are being funded right now by charitable organizations, by psychedelic donors, and that needs to change the potential for for psychedelics as a medicine to treat
00:43:48.090 --> 00:43:59.570 Joe Mckay: many conditions is there? And and we're really doing ourselves a disservice by allowing the stigma to continue, and not really, you know, not taking a deep dive into it.
00:44:00.430 --> 00:44:10.630 Gaetano Lardieri: Yup, and so we'll go to break, and we come back. We'll ask Lauren about hospital educating hospitals and emergency rooms and local physicians, and so on. So let's go to break, and we'll be back in a minute.
00:45:48.570 --> 00:46:10.910 Gaetano Lardieri: Welcome back to Talkradio dot Nyc. I'm your host, Gaetana Lardieri. So, Lauren, I want to ask you. You believe hospitals, especially emergency rooms in the Tri-state area, and New Jersey, where you live, are not well educated on cluster headache syndrome. Do you think it would be helpful for more local doctors to meet and discuss this issue with patients.
00:46:11.370 --> 00:46:39.189 Lauren Dayton: Yes, it's actually something I discuss with my neurologist who happens to be in New York City. We discuss ways that either his neurological group in one of the main hospitals in New York City or the local hospitals can educate. So I actually have a sheet that I've created and Clusters has some information that they can give out, and whenever I meet a nurse or doctor in an emergency room, who doesn't know what a cluster is.
00:46:39.190 --> 00:46:45.519 Lauren Dayton: I go right into the education process. Like I said, patient advocacy is so important in these kinds of conditions.
00:46:45.520 --> 00:46:57.100 Lauren Dayton: But really I also think it would be beneficial for these universities who are studying these conditions to put out information to local hospitals and doctors, offices.
00:46:58.550 --> 00:47:12.690 Gaetano Lardieri: Oh, oh, excellent! That's excellent! And and Joe again! Tell us, where? Where can we find out more information about cluster busters and talk to us about your your board member. As well talk to us about the culture.
00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:21.239 Gaetano Lardieri: because I found I find the cult, the the culture, very fascinating. Just unmute yourself, Joe, so we all.
00:47:22.080 --> 00:47:38.930 Joe Mckay: yeah. So as far as information goes about cluster headache and cluster busters, you can clusterbusters.org. It's the website's there. It has links to a lot of the science that that's been done. As far as the culture with with cluster busters.
00:47:39.340 --> 00:47:57.889 Joe Mckay: My 1st cluster Buses Conference was in 2017, and I was. That was when I was desperate and suicidal. I walked into a room full of about full of patients and doctors, speaking openly about psychedelics and other treatments, not just psychedelics, but other treatments for
00:47:58.270 --> 00:48:00.310 Joe Mckay: for a cluster headache.
00:48:01.120 --> 00:48:02.080 Gaetano Lardieri: It's tripping.
00:48:02.080 --> 00:48:17.389 Joe Mckay: No, not at all, no, not at all. It's it's people from all walks of life like I said, I've met, I've met judges, I've met politicians. I've I've met plenty of people from all walks of life that have, you know, that have caused a headache, and and then I've come to conferences.
00:48:17.710 --> 00:48:36.519 Joe Mckay: The disease is very isolating. It's it's a lot of people that have this disease. Besides the suicidal ideation they end up losing their job losing relationships, you know, when you lose your job you lose your health care, and they're really in a desperate place. And when you try to describe
00:48:36.970 --> 00:48:46.489 Joe Mckay: to a person of what it's like to live with this disease. How bad the pain is! It's it's really difficult for other people to understand.
00:48:46.630 --> 00:48:48.420 Joe Mckay: And when you're
00:48:48.540 --> 00:48:56.719 Joe Mckay: you know, for me, when I 1st walked into that room and and I started talking to people, and and it was life changing for me, because
00:48:56.970 --> 00:49:10.459 Joe Mckay: it's kind of like you found a community, I mean. For me. It was an emotional release to be in a room full of people that totally understood what it was like living with this disease, and how horrible it was, and how it could destroy you and your family's life.
00:49:10.870 --> 00:49:31.729 Joe Mckay: So so, as far as the you know the people there. It's not a bunch of hippies looking to trip. It's doctors from Yale and Harvard and these other places where they're doing research. It's moms and dads, grandparents, young adults, people from all walks of life.
00:49:31.730 --> 00:49:45.070 Joe Mckay: sharing their stories and and getting support and learning from from all the cluster headache patients, because it's very difficult to treat this disease. And and you know, when you're in a room full of people that have been down that road before, it's priceless.
00:49:45.390 --> 00:49:53.910 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah. And I, I seen the culture amongst the cluster Buster people absolutely 100 to the culture as well.
00:49:54.416 --> 00:50:02.149 Lauren Dayton: I will say I'm I'm so thankful for the community I have yet to be able to actually attend a conference in person.
00:50:02.520 --> 00:50:03.230 Joe Mckay: Getting you there.
00:50:04.160 --> 00:50:09.809 Lauren Dayton: Always the start of school for me. But I I hope to make it actually this fall in Dallas.
00:50:09.950 --> 00:50:33.040 Lauren Dayton: But I will say, you know, during the pandemic they actually had everything on zoom, and that was when I was 1st beginning to learn about this, and so I got to go to the conference for a little bit on Zoom, and it was mind blowing and one of the nicest things was that they had patients each time speak about the condition, and then other than Joe and a few people that I had met. I didn't know anyone else living with this.
00:50:33.120 --> 00:50:43.750 Lauren Dayton: and my husband actually sat through the entirety of the conference for a couple of days with me, and they do something not only for the patients, but for the caretakers in the home.
00:50:43.930 --> 00:50:48.690 Lauren Dayton: It's just such a wonderful community. It's hard to understand pain.
00:50:48.730 --> 00:51:14.379 Lauren Dayton: And so that was life changing. But I will also say in terms of understanding psychedelics. There's been some amazing videos and documentaries out right now on, like Netflix. You know, one of the advocates in our group is a guy named Neil Ustane, who did a wonderful and beautiful documentary how to change your mind with Michael Poland's book.
00:51:14.610 --> 00:51:17.890 Lauren Dayton: And there's another one fabulous fungi that.
00:51:18.835 --> 00:51:19.780 Joe Mckay: Fantastic.
00:51:19.780 --> 00:51:25.450 Lauren Dayton: Excuse me. Fantastic fungi they both discuss, you know, psychedelics
00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:50.289 Lauren Dayton: and the natural nature of them. So I think not only is the culture of cluster busters really just special and unique. But it's also understanding that citizen science is vital to it that this idea of psychedelics isn't isn't scary or harmful. It's done with very big open arms and with love and community. So the whole process of caring for yourself becomes.
00:51:50.370 --> 00:51:52.329 Lauren Dayton: I just think, very holistic.
00:51:52.740 --> 00:51:59.009 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah, it's become very mainstream. I'm watching now. Every Sunday night, 1130 on adult swim. Common side effects.
00:51:59.010 --> 00:52:01.610 Lauren Dayton: I think that's the funniest.
00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:03.610 Gaetano Lardieri: Can I?
00:52:03.610 --> 00:52:05.389 Gaetano Lardieri: What? A book, too? Yeah.
00:52:05.390 --> 00:52:06.869 Lauren Dayton: Oh, yes, of course. Joanna.
00:52:06.870 --> 00:52:09.479 Joe Mckay: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:52:10.070 --> 00:52:12.419 Joe Mckay: Yeah. Yeah. You go ahead. You're gonna okay.
00:52:12.420 --> 00:52:12.979 Joe Mckay: All right ahead.
00:52:12.980 --> 00:52:33.029 Joe Mckay: There was a book written recently by a professor at Rutgers, Joanna Kepner. She's a professor of sociology, and she found she followed our organization for for more than a decade, and and she did a deep dive into the you know, into the inequities of people that were living with cluster headache, and how
00:52:33.070 --> 00:52:52.059 Joe Mckay: the medical community kind of left this out to dry. It's called Psychedelic Outlaws. It's got a pretty good title, but it tells the story of our of our organization and the struggles that people with cluster headache have. And you know, with the current medical system, because the system doesn't serve us as it is now.
00:52:53.100 --> 00:52:54.970 Gaetano Lardieri: And where can people find that book.
00:52:54.970 --> 00:52:59.490 Joe Mckay: Amazon Amazon. Psychedelic Outlaws. By Joanna Ketna on Amazon.
00:53:00.720 --> 00:53:04.269 Lauren Dayton: And she just come and testified on our cluster Buster behalf.
00:53:04.270 --> 00:53:04.740 Joe Mckay: Correct.
00:53:04.740 --> 00:53:08.260 Gaetano Lardieri: She's, you know, attending hearings in New Jersey for the bill.
00:53:08.590 --> 00:53:11.420 Lauren Dayton: And it's really nice to have that support.
00:53:11.730 --> 00:53:33.709 Joe Mckay: There was one other thing I wanted to mention, too, the dosing amount for people with cluster headache. We don't need a really heavy dose of psychedelics. It's a light dose, because it's not considered a microdose more like a mini dose. And a lot of people actually take the mushroom capsules before they go to bed and sleep through the whole experience.
00:53:34.330 --> 00:53:49.750 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, this is fantastic. You guys are amazing. And we look forward to telling more of the world about cluster busters. In the meantime I'd like to bring on our sponsor, Jack Thomas, to say some departing words.
00:53:52.690 --> 00:53:55.539 larry moskowitz: Joe Lauren, thank you so much.
00:53:56.530 --> 00:53:56.835 Joe Mckay: You.
00:53:57.140 --> 00:54:02.670 larry moskowitz: The authenticity and the stories that I've listened last time. And this time
00:54:03.610 --> 00:54:15.119 larry moskowitz: it makes me think of how our generation, when we were younger growing up. And how communities advocated the word patient advocacy to hear that
00:54:16.030 --> 00:54:20.650 larry moskowitz: our our intent at the happy spot is to bring alternative wellness
00:54:20.770 --> 00:54:23.060 larry moskowitz: through the New York city podcast
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:30.529 larry moskowitz: so numbers in perspective, there are 3.6 million people that have been listening to the podcast for 14 years.
00:54:30.820 --> 00:54:37.730 larry moskowitz: We have now been accepted by the octopus movement. I'm a founding member, and it's about being neurodivergent.
00:54:37.990 --> 00:54:47.519 larry moskowitz: So what happens is our neurodivergent movement is in connection with the mind. The neuroscience. And we're putting think tanks together around the world.
00:54:48.110 --> 00:54:55.890 larry moskowitz: So to have you to be part of this, I'm grateful. I'm just going to read a couple of notes just about a little bit about myself.
00:54:56.657 --> 00:55:03.680 larry moskowitz: To give people an idea of who I am and what we're representing into the happy spot.
00:55:04.110 --> 00:55:21.880 larry moskowitz: This is where your physical reality, highest potential and souls purpose are one. The future of work is happy. It's now I help executives change their behavior to help the employees. It's a vision. Global behavior change one executive at a time.
00:55:22.230 --> 00:55:24.720 larry moskowitz: Let's remember, we have millennials in general
00:55:24.900 --> 00:55:36.159 larry moskowitz: and Gen. Z. They're redefining. What work should be. They watched older generations grind themselves down, seeing what happened, impacted mental health relationships, physical health. Now they're saying enough.
00:55:36.530 --> 00:55:52.849 larry moskowitz: Right? Look at this guy going around shooting people in New York City. We don't advocate it. We're just recognizing it. They're holding the line when it comes to things. Work-life balance, flex schedules, fair pay. Look at what Jamie Dimon's going through in New York. Everyone's so frustrated here at the happy spot.
00:55:53.080 --> 00:56:18.509 larry moskowitz: Our intent is to create a safe space, to have real live conversations, and I'm just grateful for the 2 of you and say, Thank you. And I look forward to hearing more in the marketplace. Gaetano. You are a blessing the people around the world, and how they honor and respect you and watching the engagement. It's like sitting at the coffee table as a kid, and I'm eating cookies out of the blue tin. You know the butter cookies. Everyone knows that
00:56:18.510 --> 00:56:25.830 larry moskowitz: everyone. Thank you have a great evening. I'll turn the floor back over to you, as we'll be closing out the evening. Thank you. Everybody.
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:28.250 Gaetano Lardieri: Thank you.
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