EPISODE SUMMARY:
1) What is Ibogaine?
2) How does it work?
3) What addictions is it most effective for?
4) How long are the effects and how long do they last?
5) Why is medical supervision needed and why?
6) How does it compare to other addiction treatments such as Methandone and Burprenorphine?
7) What is its legal status of Ibogaine and why is it still schedule 1 in most places?
8) Is it more effective with psychological support?
In this episode learn all about Ibogaine from two highly trained medical doctors who have had their own personal experience with psychedelics as well as treated thousands of patients with Ibogaine for addiction. Come explore the science and mystical effects of this amazing plant.
In the latest episode of The Happy Spot, hosts Jack Thomas and Gaetano Lardieri explore the world of alternative wellness, particularly the use of psychedelics like Ibogaine for addiction treatment and personal transformation. Featuring experts Dr. Bruno Rasmussen from Brazil and Dr. Maurice Hinson from New York, the discussion highlights the spiritual and neurological benefits of Ibogaine, which promotes brain plasticity and enhances self-awareness through profound introspective experiences. As the conversation unfolds, the hosts emphasize the importance of combining psychedelics with therapy to maximize their healing potential, offering listeners insights into groundbreaking approaches to wellness and happiness.
In this segment, hosts Gaetano Lardieri and Jack Thomas continue their discussion on Ibogaine with Dr. Bruno Rasmussen and Dr. Maurice Hinson, exploring its effectiveness in treating both chemical addictions like opioids and cocaine, as well as behavioral addictions such as gambling and compulsive eating. While highlighting Ibogaine’s unique ability to reset the brain’s tolerance to substances and enhance therapy, they also emphasize the necessity of medical supervision due to potential cardiac and psychiatric risks. Dr. Hinson expands on the broader implications of Ibogaine, suggesting its potential in revolutionizing mental health, neurodegenerative diseases, and overall wellness by addressing the often-overlooked spiritual dimension of healing.
In this segment, Dr. Bruno Rasmussen emphasizes the importance of medical supervision when using Ibogaine, likening it to a surgical procedure that requires a controlled environment due to potential risks. Dr. Maurice Hinson discusses Ibogaine’s leading role in the plant medicine revolution, highlighting its ability to rewire the brain’s neurocircuitry and its potential to treat substance abuse and other conditions by reopening critical periods of cognitive development. The discussion also contrasts Ibogaine with traditional opioid-replacement therapies like methadone, underscoring its ability to facilitate long-term healing rather than merely substituting one substance for another, all while avoiding the painful withdrawal symptoms that often deter recovery.
In this final segment of The Happy Spot, Dr. Bruno Rasmussen highlights the crucial role of psychological support before, during, and after Ibogaine treatment, ensuring that patients integrate their experiences into lasting positive change. He also discusses the legal landscape of Ibogaine, emphasizing the need for regulatory reform to enable more research and wider access, particularly in countries like Brazil, where efforts are being made to set a global precedent. Dr. Maurice Hinson stresses the importance of public advocacy in pushing for policy changes, arguing that withholding a potentially life-saving treatment due to political and financial interests is unethical, and encouraging people to spread awareness to drive legislative action.
00:00:48.770 --> 00:00:55.459 Gaetano Lardieri FUNGGUY: Welcome to the happy spot podcast on Nyc radio sponsored by Jack Thomas. I'm just.
00:01:28.620 --> 00:01:31.960 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): Does it appear that Gaetano has frozen?
00:01:35.360 --> 00:01:36.210 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): Yes.
00:01:42.300 --> 00:01:44.249 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): I'm gonna step in for a moment.
00:01:45.420 --> 00:01:48.790 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): Guy had given me the questions earlier today.
00:01:49.530 --> 00:01:54.160 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): So until Guy comes back nobody can fill Guy Guy's shoes.
00:01:54.430 --> 00:01:56.030 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): I am Jack Thomas.
00:01:56.500 --> 00:02:03.740 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): I had the blessings of meeting Gaetano Ladiri. He has been working on this movement and connecting people worldwide.
00:02:03.970 --> 00:02:14.060 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): Caetano, he'll come back and share his story, headed, Heading Up in New Jersey. But today we have the good fortune of Dr. Bruno Rasmussen from Brazil.
00:02:14.180 --> 00:02:19.790 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): and Dr. Maurice Hinson coming to us from our beloved New York City State.
00:02:20.210 --> 00:02:29.789 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): He is originally a Philly kid, so I hope he doesn't get too braggadocious because this is coming out of New York and New Jersey. You know, we all want to make nice here today.
00:02:30.510 --> 00:02:32.676 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): So what's really amazing is
00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:59.849 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): Gaetano says, Hey, Jack, I have this idea, and I go into New York City, and I listen to a gentleman, and I'm drawing a blank on his name, but he's involved with Kentucky. The Iber game movement, and sitting right to my left without even knowing each other, was Dr. Maurice Hinson and I had met him. I had seen him speak at an engagement that was in New Jersey, and we at the happy spot focus on alternative wellness.
00:03:00.050 --> 00:03:23.389 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): And so we're looking at. What are the professionals that are sitting in the room? And how can we, as everyday people, make it, part of our lives. Some of the things that are out there are scheduled one drugs. We're not here promoting scheduled one drugs. We're educating people, that there are choices and options. And there are professionals right here in our local market international market. And we're trying to figure out the best way to serve our people.
00:03:23.670 --> 00:03:32.349 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): So with that being said, I do want to introduce the floor. 1st to Dr. Bruno, coming from Brazil.
00:03:32.480 --> 00:03:50.629 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): Dr. Bruno, who are you, our podcast. Our members out. There are 2.6 million people. Nyc radio going around the world. And pretty much this community is about alternative wellness and how we can be better for ourselves personally.
00:03:50.880 --> 00:03:58.889 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): humanity. So floor is yours. If you just please take a moment and share a little bit about who you are and how we can appreciate you.
00:04:00.340 --> 00:04:13.630 Bruno Rasmussen: Thank you. Good night, and thanks for the opportunity to be here. Well, I'm Bruno Rasmussen. I'm a medical doctor. I work in Brazil. I consider myself the 1st psychedelic doctor in Brazil.
00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:18.700 Bruno Rasmussen: I work with Ibogaine since 1994,
00:04:18.990 --> 00:04:35.110 Bruno Rasmussen: and what I'm trying to do here in Brazil is Ibogaine is legal here in Brazil, different from the United States, for example, where it's a schedule, one drug, and I'm working to make it more accessible to
00:04:35.280 --> 00:04:40.699 Bruno Rasmussen: to most of the people here in Brazil that needs it mainly for the treatment of addiction.
00:04:43.110 --> 00:04:58.800 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): Great. Thank you. Thank you so much. And so we can relate to you. So in America I work with Mds and Dos in their business and advisory business. And so a medical doctor, I'm 58, 59 years old.
00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:19.200 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): I'm going to call your traditional right. They go by lines right? They look at a very linear path and your dos. The Osteopath is looking at a holistic approach, not saying either one is right or wrong. They're just 2 different approaches in your practice. How do you look at things so we can relate to you.
00:05:20.110 --> 00:05:32.080 Bruno Rasmussen: Well, I am a traditional doctor, but I work with a non traditional medicine. So we work in a hospital. That's the way that we manage to do it legally here in Brazil.
00:05:32.080 --> 00:05:53.220 Bruno Rasmussen: So we work with this psychedelic medicine. But in a traditional way we for sure respect a lot of the traditional knowledge and the traditional cultures mainly from Africa, where iboggine came from. But here in Brazil, because of cultural.
00:05:53.220 --> 00:06:18.579 Bruno Rasmussen: a cultural situation, and for the legal situation. We need to try to put this traditional medicine in a medical environment for us to to make it more, let's say, for the government and for the health agencies to see it in a in a more favorable way.
00:06:19.490 --> 00:06:22.510 Bruno Rasmussen: Help us to to do this. This work.
00:06:23.620 --> 00:06:28.479 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): Great. Thank you so much, and I'm going to turn my question over to Dr. Hinson
00:06:28.890 --> 00:06:31.209 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): if you break so
00:06:32.250 --> 00:06:54.329 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): Dr. Maurice Hinson, I sit next to you at an event, and you're calm in your stature, and you're sitting there as the everyday person. But today you're here with the medical coat, and you're the doctor, and so your wisdom of who's the story of Dr. Hinson? And you know, why does the community want to know about your practice and your life, and how you're serving others.
00:06:54.520 --> 00:07:23.570 Maurice Hinson, MD: Yeah. Well, I appreciate the invitation. I'm a general internist by training. So I got my bachelor's in neuroscience from Johns Hopkins, and then went on to Drexel to do my medical degree, and then came up to New York to do my Residency training at New York, Presbyterian Wall, Cornell. But you know. I think my story started well before my educational pursuits. Right? I think
00:07:23.650 --> 00:07:36.200 Maurice Hinson, MD: you know. Sometimes life guides us in the direction that you know we should be. And I think we get we reach a certain point in our evolution where we realize that life doesn't happen to you. It happens for you.
00:07:36.480 --> 00:08:00.579 Maurice Hinson, MD: And then, if you take that approach, then you see how everything that you have to go through all the challenges is meant to help you grow and evolve in advance, and I think you know, and I'm fortunate to have those life experiences that put me on this path on this trajectory where now I'm in a space where we can start discussing things like Ibogaine and other psychedelics and
00:08:00.580 --> 00:08:14.129 Maurice Hinson, MD: other plant medicines that have been restricted, you know, for political and financial reason, but have immense potential to transform how we approach not only mental health, but overall health and wellness.
00:08:14.270 --> 00:08:17.200 Maurice Hinson, MD: And you know my, my.
00:08:17.900 --> 00:08:27.590 Maurice Hinson, MD: my position now, even as an allopathic doctor is to reintroduce the the spiritual elements of medicine. You know we
00:08:27.690 --> 00:08:40.150 Maurice Hinson, MD: we completely disregard the spiritual self from how we approach health and wellness, which I think is, is completely inappropriate, and is why you know, our healthcare system and its therapeutics largely fail.
00:08:40.260 --> 00:08:45.420 Maurice Hinson, MD: you know, because we're trying to navigate health and wellness without any real spiritual compass.
00:08:45.550 --> 00:08:50.349 Maurice Hinson, MD: And because of that, you know, our greatest disease is of the spirit.
00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:57.369 Maurice Hinson, MD: And so my my purpose is to really reintroduce the the significance of targeting the spiritual self.
00:08:57.460 --> 00:09:22.770 Maurice Hinson, MD: And that's where the psychedelics really come into play, especially those like Ibogaine, which have such immense and profound sort of mystical experience, and then associated physiologic changes. And so really, my task, my mission is just to spread the word to teach as many people about this. There's a lot of people don't know that this therapy exists.
00:09:22.920 --> 00:09:26.060 Maurice Hinson, MD: And so that's 1 of my many missions.
00:09:27.670 --> 00:09:30.837 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): Dr. Hinson. Thank you so much for sharing and
00:09:31.850 --> 00:09:34.520 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): I'm going to. Now turn my question over to Dr.
00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:46.619 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): Ms. Mohsen. Excuse. I hope my pronunciation may not have been perfect. But the question is kind of a basic question to our audience. Right? So here's a perspective.
00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:48.400 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): I'm 58
00:09:48.520 --> 00:10:04.879 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): grew up in New York City, live in Jersey, raised my kids 2825, and anytime you took right? Any 58 year old, having kids right. My kids don't want to hear from me because they're busy looking at their phone technology. They know so much more than I do in so many areas.
00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:24.340 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): But yet they still look to us for guidance. And one of the questions in here we're starting off and Gaetano is coming back. I'm gonna ask the 1st question and then hand the floor back off Gaetano. It's such powerful information going on here. Even the computer got intimidated by it. The computer.
00:10:24.770 --> 00:10:28.130 Gaetano Lardieri: Did Mike? Did gentlemen have a chance to introduce themselves? I'm sorry, Larry.
00:10:28.450 --> 00:10:47.860 JACK THOMAS (Formerly Larry Mosk): That's okay. Yeah, no. We went through the introduction. We set the platform introductions. I'm going off the 1st question, what you sent me earlier. And so I'm just reading from what is Ibrane, and from what plant is it derived? And so that's to Dr. Bruno. I'm going to duck away, and then Gaetano will take it over from here. Thank you, gentlemen.
00:10:47.860 --> 00:10:48.749 Gaetano Lardieri: Thank you, Larry.
00:10:51.170 --> 00:11:04.150 Bruno Rasmussen: Okay. So ibogaine is alkaloid that is, extracted for many plants, but mainly from the Tabernata tabernati iboga plant, which grows in Africa mainly in Central and
00:11:04.230 --> 00:11:30.879 Bruno Rasmussen: in Central Africa, and like Gabon and Cameroon and other countries around, but more traditionally in Gabon, it's usually use it from a long time there as a ritual. They think that Ibogaine turns young teens in adults. So at the age of 17 they make a big
00:11:30.970 --> 00:11:54.300 Bruno Rasmussen: a ritual where people take Ibogaine, and after that they are considered as adults and go to the adult work at their tribes. But in 1962, a guy from New York called Howard Wotzoff. He experimented Ibogaine because he heard that Ibogaine had a lot of
00:11:54.390 --> 00:12:11.529 Bruno Rasmussen: psychoactive effects, and he had this effect. It's really interesting. The effects are very interesting, because you see a lot of images, and you see your past life. You see your childhood during this experience, and after that
00:12:11.530 --> 00:12:32.770 Bruno Rasmussen: he noticed it. This Howard lot. He noticed it that he wasn't addicted to heroin anymore. He previously of this treatment he was addicted to heroin. So he noticed it that Ibogaine had a role in this cure, let's say so. He started to
00:12:32.940 --> 00:12:43.270 Bruno Rasmussen: talk with a lot of people United States, a lot of colleges trying to find someone to make a research there, and
00:12:43.420 --> 00:13:06.019 Bruno Rasmussen: it started with him. But now, Ibogaine, it's known by a lot of people in some countries it's banned. It's scheduled like in the United States, in France and other countries, but in the most of the countries in the world it's not regulated. And in Brazil it's it's not regulated, but it's not forbidden, and under some
00:13:06.020 --> 00:13:15.800 Bruno Rasmussen: rules you can do treatments here, since you this, since these treatments are followed by a doctor, since they are doing in a hospital.
00:13:16.130 --> 00:13:31.159 Bruno Rasmussen: And it's very interesting because you have no options to treat addiction. And it's a good option. Some research show that Ibogaine has more than 70% good results in treating addiction.
00:13:32.400 --> 00:13:37.980 Gaetano Lardieri: Thank you so. And, Dr. Chavez, how does Ibogaine work in the brain to actually treat addiction.
00:13:38.850 --> 00:13:49.370 Bruno Rasmussen: Well, there are 2 kinds of actions of fiber gain in the brain. The 1st action is raising hormone, who is called Gdnf.
00:13:49.370 --> 00:14:19.100 Bruno Rasmussen: that promotes connections between the neurons and changes the architecture of the brain, makes some kind of plasticity in the brain, and the other way that it acts is by this experience that I mentioned it. When you see your past life, and it makes you think about you, think about your life, think about your relationships, and this facilitates psychotherapy. Ibogaine is a therapy, a psychotherapy facilitator
00:14:19.100 --> 00:14:22.539 Bruno Rasmussen: without therapy, ibogaine has no
00:14:22.650 --> 00:14:30.039 Bruno Rasmussen: so much effect. But if you mix ibogaine and therapy, you have this beautiful and good effect.
00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:40.279 Gaetano Lardieri: Okay so we'll go to a break right now and then we come back. We'll ask Dr. Chavez about substances and addictions of Ivocaine. But we'll go to Commercial right now.
00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:24.820 Gaetano Lardieri: Okay, welcome back to talk radio. Nyc, so, Dr. Chavez, a question, what substances or addictions has Ibogaine been shown to be most effective in treating. In particular, I have an outside question from a dear friend of mine in regards to specifically smoking sensation.
00:16:25.700 --> 00:16:46.679 Bruno Rasmussen: Yes. Okay. Ibogaine works with chemical addictions and non-chemical addictions for chemical addictions. We can cite opiates like heroin or Fentanyl and Cocaine crack cocaine. Here in Brazil we use ibogaine to treat mainly cocaine and crack cocaine addiction, because we have a lot of these here. We have not
00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:51.530 Bruno Rasmussen: so many opiate addicts like we have in United States.
00:16:51.810 --> 00:17:20.100 Bruno Rasmussen: But it can be used for non-chemical addictions like gambling sex addiction, food addiction, eating disorders, things like that. And it's interesting, because for regular smoking cessation, it's not so good as you can expect an efficacy around 70 to 80% for opiates. For example, you can expect a result around 50%
00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:23.390 Bruno Rasmussen: for the smoking. So it's not the 1st option.
00:17:23.460 --> 00:17:38.940 Bruno Rasmussen: Ibogaine really has the potential to change someone's life. But it's not a miracle. So it's a thing that you must use with other interventions like therapy. As I mentioned before.
00:17:39.250 --> 00:17:40.140 Gaetano Lardieri: Excellent.
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:42.960 Maurice Hinson, MD: Yeah, if I if I could.
00:17:43.830 --> 00:17:53.690 Maurice Hinson, MD: Yeah, add to it, because just to piggyback off what Dr. Rasmussen said, you know that one of the reasons why it has such a
00:17:53.890 --> 00:18:05.660 Maurice Hinson, MD: broad efficacy is because it's unlike many of the the agents that we have. Currently it actually has multiple as a myriad of different mechanistic effects.
00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:28.419 Maurice Hinson, MD: You know most of our single agent therapies only have one mechanism of action, but Ibogaine actually targets multiple receptors in the cns and peripheral nervous system of which include Nmda, which is similar to ketamine. The sigma kappa mu opioid receptors the nicotine receptors.
00:18:28.420 --> 00:18:42.950 Maurice Hinson, MD: It has a significant influence on the serotonergic pathway. And so we can see why we get such an immense response from this single agent, which is very different from a lot of our current standard therapies.
00:18:43.740 --> 00:19:03.840 Bruno Rasmussen: Exactly. Thank you, Dr. Morris, just to remember it's exactly why Ibogaine reacts with the opioid connectors, receptors in the brain that it has this great effect against opiate addiction. Although it's not an opiate, it's not a chemical, it's not an opiate, but it reacts with the
00:19:03.990 --> 00:19:06.410 Bruno Rasmussen: the the receptors in the brain. It's true.
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.569 Gaetano Lardieri: And Dr. Chavez. What are some of the potential risks and side effects of ibogaine therapy?
00:19:12.470 --> 00:19:20.580 Bruno Rasmussen: Well. The potential risks about ibogaine therapy are cardiac arrhythmias ibogaine. Sometimes mainly when it founds
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:42.909 Bruno Rasmussen: some chemicals in the system like cocaine, for example, it can lead to potential, complicated arrhythmias, like one, especially one that it's called Torsade du Ponce Arrhythmia. But this is manageable. If you really prepare the patient if you do it in an environment with all the resources.
00:19:42.970 --> 00:20:06.039 Bruno Rasmussen: with doctors, with nurses in a place that we can make any kind of intervention if needed. For example, I work with Ibogaine for 30 years. As I said, I've seen more than 2,000 patients, and I never saw a complication. But you must prepare very well the patient before taking ibogaine ibogaine is not a thing that you
00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:13.070 Bruno Rasmussen: decide today to take it. Tomorrow you must prepare yourself, even physically and psychologically.
00:20:13.530 --> 00:20:21.039 Gaetano Lardieri: Medically preparing. So an ekg. Echocardiogram, what kinds of exams would you perform on a patient.
00:20:21.320 --> 00:20:24.200 Bruno Rasmussen: Exactly the Akg and some blood tests
00:20:24.230 --> 00:20:54.179 Bruno Rasmussen: to be sure that besides your heart, that is okay. Your liver is okay. Your kidney is okay? And there are other potential complications on Ibogaine. There are the psychiatric complications. So you can. It's not good to use ibogaine in a person that has some kind of psychosis like schizophrenia, some kinds of bipolarity. It must be followed by a multiprofessional team
00:20:54.180 --> 00:21:02.249 Bruno Rasmussen: to be sure that the patient has the profile to take Ibogaine, and that it will be safe for this patient.
00:21:02.450 --> 00:21:04.110 Gaetano Lardieri: And those side effects.
00:21:04.110 --> 00:21:05.809 Maurice Hinson, MD: I've seen in. Oh, sorry.
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:07.380 Gaetano Lardieri: Go ahead! Go ahead!
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:26.019 Maurice Hinson, MD: At least what I've seen in a lot of the published studies. There's a sort of a pretty extensive screening protocol that a lot of them implement. We know that Ibogaine is metabolized by Cytochrome, p. 452 d. 6. And you know, one of the
00:21:26.020 --> 00:21:44.619 Maurice Hinson, MD: one of the objectives in the screening protocols is to eliminate any other concurrent use of medications which are also metabolized by CD. 6. And that includes a lot of commonly prescribed medications, the Ssris, like fluoxetine.
00:21:44.620 --> 00:22:01.689 Maurice Hinson, MD: paxil, and some antipsychotics, even cardiovascular medications like metoprolol and Carbitol, you know. So I think you know, just like with anything there's a risk with any medication that we give any procedure that we perform.
00:22:01.690 --> 00:22:20.009 Maurice Hinson, MD: It's really about taking the necessary steps to mitigate those risks, and I think by properly screening and doing the Ekgs and echoes, and eliminating these other medications that are also metabolized by the same 2D. 6. I think that's when you can significantly reduce the risk. And you know, funny enough.
00:22:20.100 --> 00:22:42.089 Maurice Hinson, MD: the the objection behind using ibogaine, at least in the Us. Is because of this cardiotoxicity and the risk for prolonged Qt. But the current standard of care, methadone and suboxone. They also prolong your Qt. As far as I know.
00:22:42.230 --> 00:22:50.669 Maurice Hinson, MD: Methadone accounts for 3 to 4,000 deaths annually, directly suboxone around one to 2,000,
00:22:50.840 --> 00:23:11.479 Maurice Hinson, MD: and since Ibogaine has been published over the last several decades, I've only seen a documented maybe 40 cases. I don't know how realistic that is, but that pales in comparison to the current standard of care. So yes, we can discuss the risk of this medication, but it seems to be far less risky than the current standard of care.
00:23:11.900 --> 00:23:19.069 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah, so, and how long would those side effects? Typically last? And are there any other drug-drug interactions that we should be aware of
00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:21.909 Gaetano Lardieri: when treating patients with Ibogaine.
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:48.750 Bruno Rasmussen: Yes, as Dr. Morris said, a lot of normal use of medications, but these are the effects of the acute effects of ibogaine. They last for around 48 h. But you have to be careful about taking other drugs for around a week or 10 days after Ibogaine, because Ibogaine has a metabolite called nor Ibogaine that circulates in the system for a longer time. So it's interesting to
00:23:48.750 --> 00:24:09.700 Bruno Rasmussen: to be careful. There's an interesting thing about Ibogaine, because it seems that Ibogaine resets your tolerance in the brain, so even if you are used to any substance like caffeine, for example, after Ibogaine, if you take a coffee, it will make a big effect even in the dose that you are used to.
00:24:09.700 --> 00:24:31.749 Bruno Rasmussen: So this is a danger of ibogaine, because if you take ibogaine, and for some reason, even not having cravings. If you decide to take heroin, for example, you can die from your regular dose, you can die from an overdose, because your regular dose will turn into an overdose after Ibogaine. So it's a medicine that you must take care
00:24:31.760 --> 00:24:33.910 Bruno Rasmussen: about taking it, and you make
00:24:33.950 --> 00:24:59.589 Bruno Rasmussen: you must take care about yourself for some days after it, to be sure that you'll be safe, and, as Dr. Morris said, there are some deaths related to Ibogaine in the past. But you can see that if you research these situations, you will see that almost all of them people the patients that had problems. They use it.
00:24:59.590 --> 00:25:16.480 Bruno Rasmussen: a medicine, or even an illicit drug, subrepitously with ibogaine. So this is the problem. You can not mix anything with ibogaine. It's only ibogaine, even other psychedelics you cannot mix. This is the trick to make a safe use of ibogaine.
00:25:17.080 --> 00:25:24.950 Gaetano Lardieri: And Dr. Chavez. You spoke a little bit about this earlier, but maybe to elaborate a little bit more. What is the role of medical supervision during Ibovine treatment.
00:25:25.620 --> 00:25:53.509 Bruno Rasmussen: Yes, is to 1st to give a reassurance to the patient that everything is fine, because it's a very strange experience, and sometimes patients get very anxious with experience, because you start thinking very quickly, and you cannot control your thoughts. You start having these visions that may disturb you mainly. If these visions are bringing you memories of your childhood traumas.
00:25:53.510 --> 00:26:04.540 Bruno Rasmussen: So one of the roads of the doctor around, or the medical supervision is to reassure the patient that everything is okay and it will go away. It will pass. You will go to the normal
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:24.960 Bruno Rasmussen: and other role is to do an intervention if if needed. If the patient starts to have some like an arrhythmia, for example, or things like that, you must be there by the side of the bed to act very promptly to avoid further consequences.
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:33.369 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah. And you mentioned contraindication? Are there any other contraindications or conditions that make Ibogaine either unsafe for certain individuals.
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:42.740 Bruno Rasmussen: Yes, like health problems in the, in the liver or in the kidney, or in the heart, and psychiatric problems like
00:26:43.150 --> 00:26:56.810 Bruno Rasmussen: schizophrenia, psychosis and things like that. Each patient must be evaluated very individually. There is not a specific rule for this, they must be evaluated, and we must
00:26:56.910 --> 00:27:16.899 Bruno Rasmussen: weight the problems and decide if the benefit of ibogaine will be great, be greater than the risk. So there's not a specific rule for this. You must evaluate every patient individually, and take this decision.
00:27:17.360 --> 00:27:24.399 Gaetano Lardieri: Right, Dr. Hinson, and I just want to ask you in what area of medicine does Ibogaine have the greatest potential.
00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:37.609 Maurice Hinson, MD: Well, you know, as I mentioned earlier, I think the greatest deficit that we have in in conventional medicine is the fact that we completely disregard the spiritual self from health and wellness.
00:27:37.730 --> 00:27:55.210 Maurice Hinson, MD: and I think the the introduction of Ibogaine and the psychedelics overall allow for the reintroduction of these tools that help us to reconnect and realign. And you know, because when we disregard the spiritual self, then the body becomes sick.
00:27:55.500 --> 00:28:01.769 Maurice Hinson, MD: you know, and I think we we continue to go down, the same failed
00:28:02.060 --> 00:28:13.979 Maurice Hinson, MD: rabbit hole of discovering, you know, these single molecular miracles, and that, you know it goes against nature. You know nothing in nature exists in isolation.
00:28:14.230 --> 00:28:20.519 Maurice Hinson, MD: and so to so to believe that we can discover and isolate.
00:28:20.890 --> 00:28:40.310 Maurice Hinson, MD: and it resolves all of our problems, I think, is unrealistic. I think Ibogaine, as powerful as it is, is not a miracle medicine. It's another tool, you know, just like I mentioned this with cannabis as much as I love cannabis and love the other psychedelics. They're just tools.
00:28:40.510 --> 00:29:09.649 Maurice Hinson, MD: you know. And once you figure out that you can use these various tools in combination, then we can start to develop far more comprehensive therapeutic regimens for patients. Because, as Dr. Bruno said, it's not just the ibogaine, it's the ibogaine with the therapy. You know, we're addressing it in a multifaceted fashion, because disease in itself is a complex multitude of interdependent
00:29:09.650 --> 00:29:27.040 Maurice Hinson, MD: pathologies, you know, or pathologic mechanisms and pathways. And so I think it's irresponsible and and unrealistic to think that we can use a single agent or one form of therapy, and it resolves all the issues.
00:29:27.150 --> 00:29:28.859 Maurice Hinson, MD: Now, that's more of a
00:29:29.190 --> 00:29:38.149 Maurice Hinson, MD: philosophical answer. From a practical standpoint. I do believe it's going to have the greatest impact on the mental and the mental health space, just because this
00:29:38.600 --> 00:29:48.519 Maurice Hinson, MD: this area of medicine has been stagnant for the past several decades, and and the the medicines that we have available to us are highly ineffective
00:29:48.610 --> 00:29:53.820 Maurice Hinson, MD: and also carry, you know, significant side effect profiles.
00:29:53.870 --> 00:30:16.279 Maurice Hinson, MD: You know it always. It was always weird to me to treat someone with a medication that increased the risk for suicidality, and they're already dealing with depression. It's no common sense there, you know. So I think the mental health space is in need dire need
00:30:16.280 --> 00:30:31.140 Maurice Hinson, MD: of novel therapies that are actually effective and and don't worsen situations. But I also think Ibogaine especially, has a much broader use, you know, not just with
00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:51.259 Maurice Hinson, MD: mood, disorders and substance abuse disorders, but also other neurocognitive disorders like dementia. You know Parkinson's Alzheimer's. There was a paper that was just published this past week in frontiers, in immunology, where they had a case study, where they gave Ibogaine to 2 individuals with Ms.
00:30:51.550 --> 00:30:52.040 Maurice Hinson, MD: And
00:30:52.040 --> 00:31:08.210 Maurice Hinson, MD: found a significantly decreased lesion size in one of the patients, and both patients had significant improvements in their motor function and other issues. And so I think it has an immense potential across the board to really impact
00:31:08.290 --> 00:31:28.219 Maurice Hinson, MD: a lot of our disease states that we don't have good therapies, for I'll make a prediction and say that I think we're going to see Ibogaine being used in Als. You know Lou Gehrit's disease, you know, we don't have any real good therapies for Als. But just given the neuroregenerative potential of Ibogaine.
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:35.559 Maurice Hinson, MD: I think that's 1 disease that I think we could see, you know, significant improvements from with the use of ibogaine.
00:31:35.800 --> 00:31:47.150 Gaetano Lardieri: Excellent, and when we come back we'll ask you about where the emerging plant medicine revolution is going. When I began, and I also see a question in Youtube about Afib. I'd like to know about that as well. So we'll go to a breakdown. We'll come back in a minute.
00:33:22.760 --> 00:33:31.080 Gaetano Lardieri: Welcome back to talk radio. Nyc. So let me ask Dr. Chavez, have you treat? I see, a comment on Youtube. Have you treated any patients with Afib with Ibogaine.
00:33:31.900 --> 00:33:32.950 Bruno Rasmussen: Wait. Sorry I didn't.
00:33:32.950 --> 00:33:38.049 Gaetano Lardieri: Asin, hey, Sid, have you treated.
00:33:38.050 --> 00:33:47.229 Bruno Rasmussen: Oh, no, no, no! I never treated anyone with a fever, and but I saw the comment. And it's interesting to to see that.
00:33:47.370 --> 00:34:08.349 Bruno Rasmussen: you know, like this patient is commenting. This person is commenting, it's exactly with Ibogaine, so you must take care. So he stayed in the hospital for 4 days in observation until he's safe. It's exactly what we must do with Ibogaine. Take care of the patient, and not do the treatment outside the hospital in a place where there is no
00:34:08.350 --> 00:34:30.370 Bruno Rasmussen: resources to do it. So see, Ibogaine, seriously, take it seriously. Take care, as we do with a lot of other medicines, a lot of medicines and medical procedures need to be done in the proper place, like, for example, you don't do a surgery in a hotel or in your neighbor's garage. You do.
00:34:30.370 --> 00:34:31.099 Gaetano Lardieri: Right! Oh.
00:34:31.100 --> 00:34:51.839 Bruno Rasmussen: So this surgery. So it's the same thing until we understand more about Ibogaine and learn how to protect more efficiently people. We must take care with it and take this kind of attention about ibogaine to avoid people avoid problems to people. So it's exactly that
00:34:52.060 --> 00:35:03.119 Bruno Rasmussen: you need to take care. We need to pay attention and not to treat it with like a displeasant medicine. We need to really to
00:35:03.810 --> 00:35:10.399 Bruno Rasmussen: take care of the patient and only release them. When everything. We are sure that everything is fine.
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:21.380 Gaetano Lardieri: I agree, 100%. This should be administered under a medical supervision and a medical facility. Dr. Hinson, where do you think Ibogaine fits within the emerging plant. Medicine, revolution.
00:35:23.446 --> 00:35:35.543 Maurice Hinson, MD: I actually see it leading that that charge. You know that when you consider just how powerful of a medicine it is. So just just on a spectrum of of psychedelics, you know.
00:35:36.530 --> 00:35:43.770 Maurice Hinson, MD: ibogaine, as far as I know, has this sort of longest trip. You know the 48 to 72 h
00:35:44.376 --> 00:35:51.829 Maurice Hinson, MD: and that they found that that coincides with what they call the the critical period
00:35:51.970 --> 00:36:13.059 Maurice Hinson, MD: of neurocognitive development. I don't know if you saw that paper that was recently published. But basically that window of neurocognitive development where the brain is most malleable and you're able to learn the most. What occurs naturally, you know, during childhood development and ends like around age 7 to 9
00:36:13.240 --> 00:36:32.920 Maurice Hinson, MD: that can reopen what I began use. And now you can learn new things. And this is this is what makes it such a powerful therapeutic for substance abuse disorders because you're relearning, you're literally rewiring the pathologic neurocircuitry which cements those addictive behaviors.
00:36:33.510 --> 00:36:40.800 Maurice Hinson, MD: And so, you know, given that it has such a powerful and and and prolonged effect.
00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:48.617 Maurice Hinson, MD: I think we're gonna see, you know, a lot of different before, you know.
00:36:49.660 --> 00:36:53.826 Maurice Hinson, MD: unresolved pathologies now being addressed.
00:36:54.840 --> 00:37:19.797 Maurice Hinson, MD: but yeah, I really see it leaning, leading a charge when it comes to psychedelic use. And you know. But again, it's it's just one of many tools. I don't think Ibogaine is going to be applicable to everyone, you know. I think with people who have more mild symptoms. You may not need such an aggressive therapeutic or potentially aggressive therapeutic.
00:37:20.490 --> 00:37:34.859 Maurice Hinson, MD: I think we're going to get to a point where we can risk, stratify patients by disease, severity, and then implement various different modalities, and perhaps those who have the most, because it appears that the people have the biggest
00:37:34.990 --> 00:38:00.709 Maurice Hinson, MD: or the the greatest deficits, or who have the most severe substance. Abuse disorders tend to do the best with ibogaine, and so, perhaps there are other modalities that we can use which don't pose as significant of a cardiotoxic effect that you know we can use before Ibogaine. And so, you know, I really see this fitting in
00:38:01.060 --> 00:38:22.440 Maurice Hinson, MD: perfectly with what we're doing in plant medicine and this revolution of plant medicine. Everything from, you know, cannabis to psilocybin, Lsd. And mdma and ketamine even. You know I'm a huge fan of ketamine use in certain medical situations. And so, you know, I'm really excited to see Ibogaine being put
00:38:22.888 --> 00:38:31.490 Maurice Hinson, MD: in that basket. But you know for me it's really about the plant. I began as just one of many alkaloids within the plant.
00:38:31.590 --> 00:38:41.799 Maurice Hinson, MD: and we, even we. There's even mentioned that the particular plant that grows in Gaboon, the Tabernati Africana. I believe it is
00:38:42.610 --> 00:38:46.160 Maurice Hinson, MD: that has a a different composition
00:38:46.310 --> 00:38:57.990 Maurice Hinson, MD: molecular composition than like the Vorconja, for example, where we derive a lot of the the Ibogaine from, or we synthesize a lot of the ibogaine from.
00:38:58.100 --> 00:39:18.939 Maurice Hinson, MD: And so I would love for us to get back to the plant. You know. It's something about the plant and all its constituents, you know, not just one isolated compound that really affords the greatest therapeutic benefit. You know. The only time we really talk about that is, when we talk about cannabis and the entourage effect, because cannabis has the cannabinoids and terpenes, and all these other
00:39:18.950 --> 00:39:28.580 Maurice Hinson, MD: elements, the flavonoids. But it's not just cannabis. It's all plants that have this this myriad of different compounds, and I think
00:39:29.270 --> 00:39:31.570 Maurice Hinson, MD: we do ourselves an injustice
00:39:31.740 --> 00:39:51.019 Maurice Hinson, MD: reducing this plant, which has the advantage of millions, if not billions, of years of evolutionary perfection, and we think that we can exert its, you know its action through one compound. I think that's that's a misguided
00:39:51.520 --> 00:40:08.890 Maurice Hinson, MD: attempt to really develop therapies. I think we need to use as much whole plant medicine as possible, and so I would love to see us be able to work with it. And granted, I understand, you know there's only a small amount of ibogaine in the plant.
00:40:08.890 --> 00:40:09.330 Gaetano Lardieri: Right.
00:40:09.330 --> 00:40:16.340 Maurice Hinson, MD: I think maybe like 4 to 6% or something like that within the plant. But this is why we do extracts
00:40:16.470 --> 00:40:36.610 Maurice Hinson, MD: right to increase the concentration. This is why we have technologies like nanotechnology, right where we can do a small, a small volume, but a high concentration. So I think, perhaps, rather than you know, focusing on dosage, we focus on different delivery methods.
00:40:36.720 --> 00:40:52.410 Maurice Hinson, MD: you know. Perhaps that's going to become the new wave of how we approach botanical medicine or whole plant medicine. And so I know I'm really excited about where we are. It's an interesting time that to be a provider and have access, or at least
00:40:52.630 --> 00:40:58.790 Maurice Hinson, MD: on the the, on the verge of having access to using the.
00:40:58.790 --> 00:41:03.749 Gaetano Lardieri: We have to. First, st we have to 1st get it out of schedule one, and be able to research it properly. That
00:41:04.075 --> 00:41:04.399 Gaetano Lardieri: correct.
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:33.769 Gaetano Lardieri: that's the issue, and you did mention something earlier in regard. It triggered something, and I thought about it. So you're resetting the brain chemistry. But you need to replace it with a good therapy. Right? So the whole therapy piece needs to come into place to replace that Dr. Chavez, let me ask you, how does ibgen. Compare with other treatments for addiction, such as methadone and urinephrine. I know you mentioned a little bit earlier, but maybe you could speak to that a little bit more.
00:41:34.690 --> 00:41:38.778 Bruno Rasmussen: Yes? Well, the difference is that methadone, and
00:41:39.380 --> 00:41:48.000 Bruno Rasmussen: they are opioid, like opioid, like medicine. So they are only substitutes. So you change. You change
00:41:48.040 --> 00:42:09.829 Bruno Rasmussen: the opiate that the person is using by a long, lasting opiate, that the patient needs to take only once a day, and it really helps to stabilize the patient. So they are auto medicines. They don't have to shoot themselves, and they don't need to use it every hour or every couple hours.
00:42:09.830 --> 00:42:22.720 Bruno Rasmussen: So it's usable. But Ibogaine is totally different. Ibogaine. It's not a substitute, although it reacts with some brain receptors with some opioid brain receptors.
00:42:22.720 --> 00:42:49.019 Bruno Rasmussen: but it's not an opiate. It reacts with other receptors as we mentioned it, and it really changes the plasticity of your brain, the architecture of your brain making a new balance of the neurotransmitters and giving the patient a well-being state that lasts for months, sometimes for years.
00:42:49.020 --> 00:42:55.029 Bruno Rasmussen: And the patient don't have the needs to take any other drugs. So.
00:42:55.130 --> 00:43:24.650 Bruno Rasmussen: and it's a very important thing. Ibogaine you normally you take Ibogaine only once in your life, sometimes twice in your life. You don't need to take it every day. So they are different. They are treatments for the same problem, but methadone and other substitutes, they are only substitutes. Can say, you change the substance for that you are addicted for, and Ibogaine promotes healing of the
00:43:24.650 --> 00:43:31.320 Bruno Rasmussen: of the the problem, and you can stay away of other medicines if you really
00:43:31.330 --> 00:43:42.919 Bruno Rasmussen: are lucky with the results, because it doesn't work for everyone, for a lot of people, but not for everyone. And if you follow the rules like we said before, and Dr. Morris stressed it.
00:43:43.010 --> 00:43:50.719 Bruno Rasmussen: You need therapy. You need a lot of other interventions to maintain this long, lasting ibogaine effect.
00:43:52.420 --> 00:43:53.999 Maurice Hinson, MD: Really quickly. You know.
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:54.569 Gaetano Lardieri: Vincent. Yes.
00:43:54.630 --> 00:43:58.580 Maurice Hinson, MD: What it. What it appears is the biggest benefit.
00:43:58.660 --> 00:44:13.979 Maurice Hinson, MD: or in the use of ibogan is the fact that they're able to resolve these addictive behaviors without risk of withdrawal. Right? If you've ever seen someone with the opioid use disorder, you know they.
00:44:14.010 --> 00:44:28.809 Maurice Hinson, MD: you know the idea of going through withdrawal is is what stops them from engaging in some of these other harm. Reduction therapies like buprenorphine, you know they they do not like buprenorphine, you know, but you're able to achieve
00:44:28.870 --> 00:44:36.309 Maurice Hinson, MD: a level of resolution without the withdrawal symptoms which is, which is unprecedented.
00:44:36.310 --> 00:44:50.450 Gaetano Lardieri: Okay, so we're going to go to break. And when we come back, when he asked Dr. Chavez about some psychological support, I'd like to know more about in his practice what support is available other than just the drug itself. So we'll go to Commercial now and be right back in a minute.
00:46:28.730 --> 00:46:43.349 Gaetano Lardieri: Okay, welcome back to talk radio. Nyc, Dr. Chavez, I just want to ask you other than the actual administration of the drug. What other psychological support or therapies. Do you incorporate into your practice with your patients?
00:46:44.260 --> 00:47:03.460 Bruno Rasmussen: Well, we do 2 different practice, the pretreatment, psychotherapy and post treatment. Pretreatment is more for accused in what to expect, and saying to the patient what he could expect to the experience. It's a deep experience. Sometimes it's challenging.
00:47:03.510 --> 00:47:32.049 Bruno Rasmussen: So we focus on that. On talking with the patient, learning his problems, trying to understand his traumas and prepare the patient to what may come during the experience, because sometimes it's very hardcore the experience. And after. But well, during the experience we stay around reassuring the patient that everything's okay, that it will go away. It will pass, and nothing bad will happen.
00:47:32.090 --> 00:47:49.679 Bruno Rasmussen: But the most important is the post treatment therapy, where we try to integrate, integrate what the experience and the insights that the patient had, because during the experience doing this situation when you can see your past life, and you can see your
00:47:49.950 --> 00:48:16.389 Bruno Rasmussen: trauma moments in the past, and you can have. You will have insights about yourself, about your family, about your relationships. So we try to integrate the integrate this in the day by day life. So the patient we try to to teach the patient how to make a good value of that, how he can use this new learning, this new information.
00:48:16.390 --> 00:48:24.309 Bruno Rasmussen: to have a better life. And, as Dr. Maris said, iboggan opens a window of
00:48:24.310 --> 00:48:41.330 Bruno Rasmussen: a chance or opportunity to learn to change habits, to act differently, that you normally act so. It's important that patient has this psychological support to go through this phase of a new learning, to try to
00:48:41.440 --> 00:49:04.749 Bruno Rasmussen: to have a new life and stay away from the problem is not only to stop using drugs or substances, but about having a good life being happy. This is the goal of the patient. To be happy, to live normally without discretion about you I need to use. I need to use all the time. That's the goal.
00:49:05.230 --> 00:49:10.139 Gaetano Lardieri: And Dr. Chavez, can you give us a breakdown of the legal status of Ibogaine in different countries?
00:49:10.750 --> 00:49:23.419 Bruno Rasmussen: Yes, forbidden or banned. In some countries like United States, France, Sweden, and others, but not a lot.
00:49:23.430 --> 00:49:47.560 Bruno Rasmussen: and the most of the Ibogaine is not totally regulated in any country in the world, but some countries, like New Zealand and Brazil, have some rules for you to use Ibogaine under a medical prescription and a lot of countries mainly in North America, like Mexico and Central America. It's not regulated so you can use it.
00:49:47.730 --> 00:49:56.589 Bruno Rasmussen: but it it you may, you must work under the the radar. It's not. The clinics are a little underground. It's not official.
00:49:56.730 --> 00:50:04.330 Bruno Rasmussen: So what we want to do is to totally regulate it in Brazil to see if you can
00:50:04.410 --> 00:50:33.529 Bruno Rasmussen: do a or promote a domino effect in other countries in the world. Starting by late in America, and after that, other countries for us to, for the people to have more access to to it, because when a substance is scheduled strictly scheduled like schedule, one United States. It's difficult even to do research. So we can't learn about it. So it's important that the research happens for us to understand
00:50:34.060 --> 00:50:51.319 Bruno Rasmussen: ibogaine and other substances, other psychedelics. Research is key for everything. So science is key for everything. So we need to do science on this psychedelics to understand better and to make it safer and safer for people in the future. Use it.
00:50:51.400 --> 00:51:14.370 Bruno Rasmussen: and we hope this in Brazil. We hope that it will be a public health policy in Brazil in a few years to help people that need. And it's interesting because all the indications of Ibogaine, like Dr. Morris, mentioned it. Ms. Alzheimer Parkinson's addiction mood disorders. They have not
00:51:14.370 --> 00:51:36.920 Bruno Rasmussen: the big medicine that works and that helps. There are all diseases or problems, mental issues that have no treatment. So there is a space for Ibogaine. It's not that we are promoting a new medicine for fever. No, we have paracetamol. We have a lot of things, but no, it's for ibogaine is for problems that we don't have medicines.
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:50.109 Bruno Rasmussen: So this is the value of ibogaine, and it may be Ibogaine itself, or it may be new substances divided by Ibogaine. Base it on Ibogaine that can help these people.
00:51:50.890 --> 00:51:59.499 Gaetano Lardieri: Excellent, Dr. Hinson. You spoke a little bit about it earlier, but can you elaborate a little bit more? What? What do you imagine the future of ibogaine therapy to be.
00:52:00.460 --> 00:52:25.060 Maurice Hinson, MD: Yeah, as Dr. Bruno just mentioned. You know these other areas that we oftentimes just overlook, and we sort of dismiss and have no real good therapies, for you know we're learning more and more that you know, the root of virtually all chronic disease is inflammation, and ibogaine is an incredible anti-inflammatory, medicine, anti-neuro, inflammatory medicine.
00:52:25.250 --> 00:52:31.510 Maurice Hinson, MD: And so I think it's going to have a profound impact on the prevention and treatment of dementia.
00:52:32.077 --> 00:52:41.220 Maurice Hinson, MD: I mentioned Ms, that study that just came out. You know, having a role in Als.
00:52:41.570 --> 00:52:48.440 Maurice Hinson, MD: And what's interesting in that study that just came out with the 2 patients with Ms.
00:52:48.730 --> 00:53:03.509 Maurice Hinson, MD: What they did was they gave the patients a loading dose, and then microdose. Thereafter 20 milligrams daily, and I do see ibogaine being used in micro doses
00:53:04.190 --> 00:53:19.199 Maurice Hinson, MD: for a small longitudinal changes. You know we know that the people where iboga is indigenous to. They chew on the eboga plant all day, and.
00:53:19.200 --> 00:53:19.540 Gaetano Lardieri: Yes.
00:53:19.540 --> 00:53:20.350 Gaetano Lardieri: Stimulate.
00:53:20.350 --> 00:53:21.180 Gaetano Lardieri: Bark. Yeah. Yeah.
00:53:21.180 --> 00:53:36.399 Maurice Hinson, MD: As a stimulant. And so, perhaps, that has implication on, you know. Add Adhd, on energy, on, you know, when you, when you consider it. Virtually every chronic disease state has a psychogenic component.
00:53:36.970 --> 00:53:59.020 Maurice Hinson, MD: whether we give, you know, credence to it or not. Adherence to medication is a psychogenic, you know, parameter. So perhaps we can really help people who struggle to maintain a certain diet, you know. Maybe this will help, you know now, because people have pathologic
00:53:59.640 --> 00:54:15.930 Maurice Hinson, MD: behaviors associated with eating. This is why obesity is such a problem in the Us, you know. And so I really think that we're going to see Ibogaine and the psychedelics overall being able to be used outside of the
00:54:16.580 --> 00:54:27.087 Maurice Hinson, MD: this box that we're creating for in the the mental health space and it's just gonna take a little bit of creativity and a little bit of
00:54:27.700 --> 00:54:39.590 Maurice Hinson, MD: nudging our legislators to to change the laws and and have it at minimum at minimum rescheduled so that we can start studying it appropriately.
00:54:39.970 --> 00:55:09.860 Gaetano Lardieri: Yeah, no. I agree with that 100%. We need to have it rescheduled or descheduled. So we can research it properly. There's some fantastic research out there with showing. Ibogaine even makes the brain younger. And with this protein unfolding that once you start understanding the protein unfolding, you can understand Alzheimer's and dementia, and Parkinson's, and so on. So there's some really fantastic future ahead of us. Any parting thoughts we have about 3 min left any parting thoughts. Dr.
00:55:09.860 --> 00:55:11.130 Gaetano Lardieri: Chavez.
00:55:12.930 --> 00:55:19.999 Bruno Rasmussen: Oh, I just want to thank you for this opportunity, and thank Jack, too, and Dr. Morris for the company, because
00:55:20.040 --> 00:55:44.889 Bruno Rasmussen: and the great insights, because it's very important for us to talk about this. It's a thing that we said in the beginning, a lot of people doesn't know that it even exists. So it's important to talk about this, to spread the world and to help people to have more information. At this moment. The most, the more information that people can have is important because we need to change this
00:55:44.890 --> 00:56:14.250 Bruno Rasmussen: change. This situation. We need to to really try to reschedule it in the United States, because, as United States being not a scheduling one drug in the United States, all the world will benefit from it, because people follow some of the United States rules in research and things like that in funding, people are not interested in funding a research with a scheduling one substance. So it's important, this this kind of
00:56:14.530 --> 00:56:21.959 Bruno Rasmussen: promoting science promoting information is very important. So I thank you all for this opportunity to to be here and to talk about.
00:56:22.140 --> 00:56:29.559 Gaetano Lardieri: And I thank you so much. You're a leader in this space, and Dr. Chavez can just tell us, where can we get in touch with you. How do we reach you?
00:56:30.420 --> 00:56:32.310 Gaetano Lardieri: Can you tell our audience how we reach you?
00:56:32.710 --> 00:56:56.730 Bruno Rasmussen: Yes. Well, I have an Instagram account, which is Bruno Rasmussen, Chavez, and I have my email, which is Bruno dra.com.br. It's the Brazilian address Internet. But you can find me on Instagram at Bruno, Rasmussen, Chavez, with an S in the end.
00:56:57.110 --> 00:57:00.330 Gaetano Lardieri: Thank you, Dr. Hinson. Any parting thoughts, sir.
00:57:00.610 --> 00:57:29.760 Maurice Hinson, MD: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, 1st again, I really appreciate the invitation and opportunity to speak on about ib game. I think my my only last. My last comments are going to be, you know, for us to to really support the movement in whatever capacity. I think everyone has a microphone. Even if you're not on a podcast or not in front of a bunch of people, it's just something you can talk about at your, you know, your dinner table just just to get the information out there, because I think the more people
00:57:29.770 --> 00:57:50.580 Maurice Hinson, MD: that know about it, and the more people that we can have advocate for its use and and accessibility and affordability. I think the more we'll be able to get our legislators to to change the laws. I mean, I, you know personally, I find it criminal evil even to
00:57:50.580 --> 00:58:01.410 Maurice Hinson, MD: to restrict and and suppress life-saving treatment because it conflicts with, you know, current political and and financial interests.
00:58:01.430 --> 00:58:07.739 Maurice Hinson, MD: You know there are millions and millions of people who have been impacted, whether directly or indirectly.
00:58:07.810 --> 00:58:15.940 Maurice Hinson, MD: from the opiate crisis, from mental health, disease, from Als from dementia, you know. And if we have
00:58:16.120 --> 00:58:31.489 Maurice Hinson, MD: a therapy which shows potential, then why not make that available to the masses? You know, why are we continuing to restrict it because we haven't figured out how to tax it, or because the the ones who govern
00:58:32.410 --> 00:58:50.000 Maurice Hinson, MD: the current, the ones who sort of have a monopoly over the industry. Don't want the competition, like, you know. At some point we have to put people before profit, you know, I think we we've overdone, you know, focusing on the dollar and not
00:58:50.690 --> 00:58:58.260 Maurice Hinson, MD: really leading with moral integrity. And so I think the more people that know about
00:58:58.770 --> 00:59:05.730 Maurice Hinson, MD: this medicine and that it exists. I think the sooner we'll see changes in its legislation and its accessibility.
00:59:06.370 --> 00:59:14.539 Gaetano Lardieri: And I thank you 2 gentlemen very, very much for joining me today on talk radio. Nyc, this was a fantastic outstanding program. Thank you. Everyone.
00:59:14.930 --> 00:59:15.760 Bruno Rasmussen: Thank you.
00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:16.490 Maurice Hinson, MD: Thank you.
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