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EPISODE SUMMARY:
WHAT YOU WILL LEARN:
What if you could actually figure out what people want of you in a way that would help you become more successful professionally and in your personal life? The greatest challenge to that is how different each person's reality contributes to confusion, misunderstandings, conflict, and missed opportunities. In this episode, we'll learn how to break into those insights.
In this episode, you'll have a chance to reflect on the influence of your values and drivers, and how to identify, tap into, and integrate those of others to create a more inclusive and robust depiction of our diverse reality, improve emotional intelligence, and become better and more effective at everything we choose to do.
We'll explore what societal norms have rewired us to sabotage our relationships, how to debunk some deeply-held notions and replace them with more appropriate and expansive ways of perspective adoption, and how to better understand ourselves and make ourselves and our own expectations better understood by others, while we stay open to better understanding them and theirs.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Karl is a certified Executive Coach, Leadership/Team/Organization Development Consultant, and international speaker who has over 25 years of experience coaching leaders and their teams (from Individual Contributors to CEOs in myriad industries and sectors) to work better together and consistently exceed their organizations’ goals. He holds a PhD in Organizational Psychology (where this thesis was on “using the Enneagram to Help Organizations Attract, Retain, and Motivate their Employees”) and has authored three books: “The How & Why: Taking Care of Business with the Enneagram” (now in its 3rd Edition!), “Nina and the Really, Really Tough Decision” (now available in English, Spanish, French, and Greek!), and, most recently, “Explicit Expectations: The Essential Guide & Toolkit of Management Fundamentals.”
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LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
www.gotowerscope.com
www.performandfunction.com
http://linkedin.com/in/rkarlhebenstreit
IG: r.karl.h
Twitter/X: rkarlh
Why do we have such a difficult time working and getting along with other people? Why do we experience so many misunderstandings and disappointments when we try to communicate and work with others? Why don't others see things the way we do? In this episode we'll tap into how to better understand ourselves and make ourselves and our own expectations better understood by others, while we stay open to better understanding them and theirs.
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
Dr. Mira Brancu’s latest episode of The Hard Skills explores how leaders can reduce misunderstandings and foster stronger workplace relationships by setting explicit expectations. Guest R. Karl Hebenstreit, an executive coach and organizational psychologist, shares insights from his book Explicit Expectations, emphasizing that unclear expectations are the root cause of disengagement, conflict, and failure in organizations. Through his personal experiences and leadership framework, he highlights the importance of moving beyond the Golden Rule to the Platinum Rule—understanding and meeting others' unique needs to create alignment, engagement, and success.
In this segment, Dr. Mira Brancu and R. Karl Hebenstreit discuss the shift from the Golden Rule (treating others as you want to be treated) to the Platinum Rule (treating others as they want to be treated), emphasizing the importance of empathy and understanding individual needs. Hebenstreit introduces the Rhodium Rule, the next step in leadership growth, where leaders integrate diverse perspectives to expand their worldview and make more informed, inclusive decisions. He also outlines the 7 C’s of Leadership—clarity, consistency, confidence, communication, collaboration, compassion, and coaching—as essential practices to navigate today’s volatile, uncertain, and complex work environments while maintaining trust and engagement.
In this segment, Dr. Mira Brancu and R. Karl Hebenstreit explore how leaders can maintain clarity and consistency in communication despite uncertainty by fostering collaboration and psychological safety within their teams. Hebenstreit emphasizes that leaders don’t need to have all the answers but should instead leverage the diverse perspectives of their teams to drive innovation and shared ownership of solutions. He also highlights the importance of balancing confidence with humility, demonstrating vulnerability, and shifting away from outdated command-and-control leadership models to create a more inclusive and effective leadership approach.
In the final segment, Dr. Mira Brancu and R. Karl Hebenstreit emphasize the power of over-communication to overcome the transparency illusion, ensuring leaders clearly articulate expectations and check for understanding. Hebenstreit highlights a nine-question framework to guide effective leadership communication, helping teams connect the dots between strategy, purpose, and execution. He leaves leaders with a key takeaway: expand your perspective, embrace inclusivity, and integrate diverse experiences to see the full picture and lead with impact.
00:00:52.360 --> 00:01:05.489 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the most challenging soft skills required to navigate today's leadership complexities and tomorrow's unknowns. I'm your host, Dr. Mira Branku.
00:01:05.830 --> 00:01:20.550 Mira Brancu: Why do we have such a difficult time working and getting along with other people? Why do we experience so many misunderstandings. Our guest today will share with us the top ways to minimize most misunderstandings.
00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:30.190 Mira Brancu: And it's a great topic for Season 6, which is focused on positive workplace politics in honor of my new workbook, millennials, workbook for navigating workplace politics.
00:01:30.470 --> 00:01:33.529 Mira Brancu: So let me introduce our guest to you.
00:01:33.710 --> 00:01:36.420 Mira Brancu: R. Carl Hybenstreit
00:01:37.010 --> 00:01:48.760 Mira Brancu: is a certified executive coach leadership team, organizational development consultant and international speaker with over 25 years of experience.
00:01:48.970 --> 00:02:12.909 Mira Brancu: coaching leaders and their teams to work better together and consistently exceed their organizational goals. He holds a Phd. In organizational psychology and has authored 3 books. The most recent and the one we're focusing on today is explicit expectations, the essential guide and toolkit of management fundamentals. It's a great book. I had a chance to read through it. So we're going to go through it today. Welcome and great to have you on the show, Carl.
00:02:15.450 --> 00:02:16.839 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Thank you for having me.
00:02:18.610 --> 00:02:25.900 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm excited. So, how did you get into
00:02:26.030 --> 00:02:40.079 Mira Brancu: this particular topic? You know? I'm sure you were seeing a lot of conflict all around you in organizational psychology. But I'm really curious. How did you get to this sort of explicit expectations, idea and interest in it?
00:02:40.340 --> 00:02:49.289 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So there's a more recent reason. I created the book, and a very old way that actually was. The was the
00:02:49.750 --> 00:03:11.719 R. Karl Hebenstreit: the impetus for starting, thinking about things in a different way. So when I was in my early twenties I was working at at, and T. And I was in a very, very mature role for my age, and I had to go and present at the Society for Human Resource Management about this wonderful concept called Talent Alliance. So I went there, and there were 2 back to back sessions at the Society for Human Resource Management Conference.
00:03:11.850 --> 00:03:22.879 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and I was all excited. I was all ready to go. I had my presentation. I had the technology going. Everything was all set, went in, started everything, and people started leaving.
00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:23.380 Mira Brancu: Move.
00:03:23.380 --> 00:03:31.140 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Got up one after the other, and they started leaving the room. And I was devastated. It was, Yeah.
00:03:31.140 --> 00:03:32.302 Mira Brancu: It's everybody's nightmare.
00:03:32.690 --> 00:03:52.939 R. Karl Hebenstreit: It it. And it happened to me it happened to me, and I realized that people were not there to. For the same reason I thought that they were there. I was there to present to them this wonderful solution to all of their problems, and get them to understand the system and hopefully buy into it, and they were there like, no, I don't want a sales, demo. I'm out of here.
00:03:53.490 --> 00:04:11.129 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and I was in my early twenties, and I was again just devastated. Luckily I had an immediate opportunity to turn this around because I had another workshop right after it. So I decided I need to approach this from a different perspective, and I need to set the expectations upfront. Find out what they're here to hear about
00:04:11.677 --> 00:04:17.570 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and also what I can do to help them to address those needs. So that's where the initial
00:04:17.790 --> 00:04:19.730 R. Karl Hebenstreit: understanding or the light.
00:04:19.730 --> 00:04:22.775 Mira Brancu: Pivot. 1st of all, Carl, what a pivot you made.
00:04:23.080 --> 00:04:23.410 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah.
00:04:23.410 --> 00:04:29.680 Mira Brancu: Very impressive pivot, you know, like the realization and the adjustment made such a difference.
00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:57.810 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Well, I was fortunate that I had that second chance right then and there. Other people could have had to wait a year, or you know, until the next conference, or if if they would even allow them back to to try to make that change. So I was just fortunate to to be able to have that opportunity, and since then I've been. Whenever I've done a workshop or meet up with people, the 1st thing I want to do is I find out what is your expectation of what we're gonna do today at this workshop, at this coaching session, whatever it is because I need to know that we're on the same page.
00:04:57.810 --> 00:05:04.180 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Can I deliver on that expectation? And if I can't, I need to let them know what they can expect of me.
00:05:04.620 --> 00:05:08.800 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Right? So so that was the very 1st
00:05:09.440 --> 00:05:15.530 R. Karl Hebenstreit: introduction to the fact that, hey? Not everyone is necessarily thinking about things the same way that I do.
00:05:15.640 --> 00:05:24.549 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and wanting the things that I do. And, by the way, that's very much golden rule, the Golden Rule is, treat others the way that you want to be treated so. I was thinking that this is.
00:05:24.690 --> 00:05:27.559 R. Karl Hebenstreit: but I would have wanted if I were to show up to this workshop.
00:05:27.750 --> 00:05:37.470 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and it wasn't what they wanted. So that's the pivot to the platinum rule. Treat others the way that they want to be treated. Find out what their expectations are, and see if you can meet them.
00:05:38.250 --> 00:05:45.559 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So the the latest iteration of how this book came about was, I was asked to create a
00:05:46.130 --> 00:06:04.579 R. Karl Hebenstreit: some sort of reference guide or toolkit for a startup that had all these individual contributors who are being promoted into management roles. Now that the company was getting bigger and growing, and of course they didn't have any knowledge, any background, any experience in being supervisors or managers. It was their 1st time doing so.
00:06:04.930 --> 00:06:12.050 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and they needed some sort of support and help that the organization was not able to offer in any other way. So I created
00:06:12.460 --> 00:06:20.420 R. Karl Hebenstreit: a smaller version of what the book is specific to their needs and what they were looking for, and realized that there's more I wanted to put in here.
00:06:20.570 --> 00:06:26.520 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And this project is not what is letting me do so. But let me expand on that.
00:06:26.810 --> 00:06:37.939 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So I took that work. I expanded it, and I created the book because this is really a way for people who are thrust into a supervisory or leadership role for the 1st time, or
00:06:38.490 --> 00:06:44.960 R. Karl Hebenstreit: even may have years of experience managing and leading others, but have never really had formal training in it.
00:06:45.140 --> 00:06:55.579 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And there's, by the way, there's lots of research research that shows that our managers have not received enough training to do so, and they feel that they actually report that they don't receive any training to do so.
00:06:55.720 --> 00:07:17.229 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So this is a way to address that, to really show people. This is the expectation of you as a leader, as a manager now, and it's it's a 2 way street. It's you need to figure out what the organization, what your manager expects of you. But you also need to figure out what your direct reports expect of you, and then you need to let them know what to expect of you as well what your expectations are as well
00:07:17.520 --> 00:07:18.090 R. Karl Hebenstreit: so.
00:07:18.090 --> 00:07:20.790 Mira Brancu: So critical. And it doesn't. I mean.
00:07:21.130 --> 00:07:34.895 Mira Brancu: it seems obvious. But it doesn't necessarily come naturally to start a conversation, a discussion in this way a relationship right? And before we get into your framework,
00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:46.089 Mira Brancu: what are the the kind of applications that this has? What are the common conflicts that you see that that you find your framework works really well for.
00:07:46.930 --> 00:08:02.989 R. Karl Hebenstreit: It really works for every type of conflict that you would have in an organization from a conflict in hey? I'm coming into this job you recruited me, you interviewed me. These are I. This is what I was expecting, and the reality that I'm getting is not what I thought it was. Gonna be.
00:08:03.510 --> 00:08:09.000 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Well, what were your, you know? Ask the right questions in the interview, and hopefully, the yeah.
00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:15.529 R. Karl Hebenstreit: be honest with you, and and really give you the true picture, the realistic job preview. What's really
00:08:15.580 --> 00:08:19.530 R. Karl Hebenstreit: the culture is like and the company is like, and the expectations for the role are like
00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:29.150 R. Karl Hebenstreit: to once you're there, and and there and saying, You know, I joined this job, and I want to be. I want your job within 6 months or a year. That's not going to happen.
00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:43.679 R. Karl Hebenstreit: But those expectations need to be explicit. So the manager can say, that's not going to happen. Now we, you know we can grow you, we can give you development experiences we can provide. Maybe you can mentor people, maybe whatever it is to help them grow to eventually
00:08:43.679 --> 00:09:03.100 R. Karl Hebenstreit: get into a higher level role if that's what they're really looking for. But really, it's also figuring out, what are you looking for in this quote? Unquote promotion. Is it more money? Is it more responsibility? Is it managing others? Is it the job title we can probably meet those needs? If it's not, I need. I want your job in 6 months to a year.
00:09:03.810 --> 00:09:31.303 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I I could imagine a million applications I'm also resonating with like, just from the very beginning, when you're doing a job search. I can't tell you how many times you know, I've had conversations with people who are looking at negotiating salary location hybrid versus remote. You know all of these like logistical things. And then, you know, I say, how do you know this is the right environment for you.
00:09:32.430 --> 00:09:33.110 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Exactly.
00:09:33.110 --> 00:09:38.770 Mira Brancu: And it, you know a lot of are
00:09:39.140 --> 00:09:43.230 Mira Brancu: kind of satisfaction has to do with those
00:09:43.520 --> 00:09:52.999 Mira Brancu: subtle, quiet assumptions, hopes, dreams, aspirations, that we never explicitly reveal. Right?
00:09:53.140 --> 00:09:53.890 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:09:54.020 --> 00:09:55.410 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Absolutely.
00:09:55.410 --> 00:10:03.870 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and I see it also play out even when you're on a project, even when you're in a team and you have expectations. Oh, I expect my team members to behave a certain way.
00:10:04.150 --> 00:10:20.380 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Have we had this conversation? Are there explicit rules of engagement? Have we all gotten together and said, this is how we will work together. These are my hot buttons, these are my pet peeves. This is what I like to. This is how I like to be communicated with. This is how I like to receive feedback. This is how I like to receive recognition
00:10:20.520 --> 00:10:23.759 R. Karl Hebenstreit: there. These can be different, for every single person on the team.
00:10:24.070 --> 00:10:36.109 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and a manager needs to learn how to navigate that. Otherwise they're going to be instead of thinking that they're they're engaging people, and they're doing the right thing. They may have the best intentions, but the reality is, they may be disengaging them.
00:10:36.560 --> 00:10:38.213 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely.
00:10:39.610 --> 00:10:43.150 Mira Brancu: You know, I've had situations where
00:10:43.820 --> 00:10:48.729 Mira Brancu: a team most teams do this. But a team has skipped over that entire process.
00:10:48.730 --> 00:10:49.139 Mira Brancu: I'm just
00:10:49.140 --> 00:11:04.120 Mira Brancu: discussing their expectations at each individual. Pet peeves. Hopes, dreams, concerns, style of communicating. You know how how they want to manage conflict, all of those things. And
00:11:04.850 --> 00:11:10.600 Mira Brancu: you could have a team that's been working for 20 years together and have never done that. And.
00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:11.000 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah.
00:11:11.452 --> 00:11:18.270 Mira Brancu: When they have tension when they fall apart. You know. Just engaging
00:11:18.370 --> 00:11:24.090 Mira Brancu: in those explicit expectation discussions makes a massive difference.
00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:31.509 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah, figuring out where they're coming from. What? What worldview do you have? What perspective are you taking on this
00:11:31.770 --> 00:11:45.019 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and realizing that they're not out to get you. They just may be looking at things from a different lens. That's really what it is. And, by the way, wouldn't it be great if you could also take on that lens, because that's going to expand your own worldview.
00:11:45.450 --> 00:11:48.840 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. So in your book.
00:11:49.350 --> 00:11:53.219 Mira Brancu: you state a very clear perspective. I'm gonna read it right now.
00:11:53.920 --> 00:11:58.559 Mira Brancu: not knowing what is expected of you is the root cause
00:11:58.990 --> 00:12:07.179 Mira Brancu: of confusion, disappointment, disengagement, and failure in organizations and in your book you
00:12:07.420 --> 00:12:28.350 Mira Brancu: are able to apply it to like literally every critical leadership, activity, strategic planning, organizational design, justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, recruiting, interviewing, hiring, prioritization, delegation, empowerment terminations, meetings. I mean all of the things that most leaders
00:12:29.812 --> 00:12:32.039 Mira Brancu: have challenges with.
00:12:32.040 --> 00:12:32.460 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Right.
00:12:32.460 --> 00:12:35.359 Mira Brancu: Right, you can apply that pretty much so.
00:12:36.910 --> 00:12:39.090 Mira Brancu: Tell me more about
00:12:40.970 --> 00:12:43.920 Mira Brancu: Why is it the root cause?
00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:50.259 Mira Brancu: And especially around disengagement? I'm especially curious about the disengagement and the failure.
00:12:50.260 --> 00:12:50.640 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Right.
00:12:50.957 --> 00:12:54.769 Mira Brancu: Why? Why is it sort of the root cause of those things?
00:12:55.040 --> 00:13:24.539 R. Karl Hebenstreit: I think people don't generally go out in the morning and say, I'm going to create chaos. I'm going to create confusion. I'm just going to hurt people by misunderstanding them and creating nebulous situations where people don't understand each other and create conflict. They go generally out looking at the world the way that they, the world, makes sense to them. And again, Golden Rule treating the world the way that they want to be treated. And the reality is, other people don't want to be treated that way. They don't.
00:13:24.540 --> 00:13:25.500 Mira Brancu: The world at the same.
00:13:25.500 --> 00:13:33.519 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Lens. They don't have the same values. They don't have the necessarily the same principles or ideologies that they're looking at, that make the world make sense to them.
00:13:33.520 --> 00:13:33.970 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah.
00:13:33.970 --> 00:14:01.450 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And so there's that immediate conflict. So no expectations are shared, and people are thinking that the other person is sharing their same worldview and their same perspective. But they never have the conversation. So that's why the conflict happens. Because people aren't clear. They expect they're almost like expecting people to read their minds, and I don't know any mind readers, I don't know if you know any mind readers out there, and that you know exactly what the other person is needing or thinking, or what their values are, what their motivations are.
00:14:01.450 --> 00:14:12.529 R. Karl Hebenstreit: what their aspirations and dreams are. So these are all implicit, and people think that well, these people should know. I mean, they know me or we're we're teammates. We've been working together for X amount of time.
00:14:12.940 --> 00:14:20.900 R. Karl Hebenstreit: but it's never made explicit. And until it's made explicit we don't really know. And that's where the conflict always arises in every single
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:24.360 R. Karl Hebenstreit: aspect of the workforce.
00:14:24.690 --> 00:14:25.060 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:14:25.060 --> 00:14:26.070 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And even at home.
00:14:26.430 --> 00:14:44.332 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I mean, I just think about like the the disengagement piece. I'm thinking about myself. And it's invalidating. When someone says they hear something different than what I just said or intended right or when someone
00:14:45.100 --> 00:14:49.355 Mira Brancu: you know, has gotten to know me a little bit, and then.
00:14:50.020 --> 00:15:10.209 Mira Brancu: you know, says something does something that is so different than what I've been saying all along is a value of mine, or an interest of mine or and yes, in our personal lives, too, you know, like when when my spouse, you know, brings home, I don't know earrings, and I said, I don't like earrings, and I don't wear earrings.
00:15:10.530 --> 00:15:13.251 R. Karl Hebenstreit: I don't even have pierced ears right.
00:15:13.640 --> 00:15:20.220 Mira Brancu: We're always we're, you know. It's not like he's not. He's trying so hard. Right? They people try
00:15:20.640 --> 00:15:38.369 Mira Brancu: to offer what they think someone else needs. But this is the crux of what you're saying is that's the Golden rule, right? And the platinum rule is trying to listen carefully enough, or pay attention enough to know. But what is it that they need from me?
00:15:38.370 --> 00:15:39.040 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Right.
00:15:39.040 --> 00:15:45.069 Mira Brancu: How should I show up for them in particular? So we are reaching an ad break I would love to get into.
00:15:45.240 --> 00:16:01.680 Mira Brancu: How do you sort of shift that mindset. What are some sort of tips and tricks that you have for that? You're listening to the hard skills with me, Mira Bronco and our guest today. Carl. Heavens, right? Author of explicit expectations. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern.
00:16:01.800 --> 00:16:18.070 Mira Brancu: At that time you can find us live streaming on Linkedin, Youtube and several other locations@talkradio.nyc. And if you'd like to ask us questions right now in real time, and you're listening in real time. Send us the questions we'll answer, otherwise we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:17:59.810 --> 00:18:16.159 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Mira Branku and our guests today are Carl. Heavens, right? And we're talking about his new book, explicit Expectations and part of explicit Expectations. 1st rule, switch from the Golden Rule to the platinum rule.
00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:16.690 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Hmm.
00:18:16.690 --> 00:18:23.169 Mira Brancu: Switch the mindset. So we've been talking about that. How do you make that shift?
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:24.820 R. Karl Hebenstreit: It's difficult.
00:18:24.930 --> 00:18:33.029 R. Karl Hebenstreit: It's really difficult, because all of our lives we've been taught the Golden Rule. Everyone talks about the Golden Rule, how we even think about gold as being this.
00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:51.690 R. Karl Hebenstreit: this, this level of standard that is the highest possible. It's expensive, it's sought after. It's it's plating Capitol buildings. It's just, you know, it's like, you know, we have all these different things about the golden ticket, golden parachutes, the golden girls.
00:18:51.690 --> 00:18:53.183 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yes, it's just.
00:18:54.650 --> 00:19:07.680 R. Karl Hebenstreit: but everything. It's it's amazing. It's the gold is just what we should be looking for. And then we all know that the Golden Rule is, treat others the way that you want to be treated. Even even hotels are going around, and they're having that as their advertising campaign.
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:08.120 Mira Brancu: You treat.
00:19:08.120 --> 00:19:22.680 R. Karl Hebenstreit: The way that we'd want to be treated. And the reality is, even if we just use the hotel as an example, not everyone's gonna want to go to that hotel. Some people want to go camping. Some people want to use an Rv, some people. It's just that's not gonna apply to everyone.
00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:23.480 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:29.220 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So it becomes very central, very, very. Me focused very egocentric. If you want to look at it that way.
00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:51.370 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and it doesn't take into consideration the fact that there are differences. Now the Golden Rule would absolutely work if every single person was exactly the same way, from exactly the same background with exactly the same needs, same abilities, same history, same like, same dislike, same allergies, same same ideology, same politics. And is the world that way?
00:19:52.170 --> 00:19:54.330 Mira Brancu: No, it it's not. And
00:19:54.550 --> 00:20:01.712 Mira Brancu: let me just interject here, because I'm having like a realization about how selfish the golden rule is.
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:03.929 Mira Brancu: Yeah, it sounds like.
00:20:03.930 --> 00:20:06.160 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Very self centered. It's very egocentric.
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:08.150 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yes, it's very me focused.
00:20:08.290 --> 00:20:24.349 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And if we look at Daniel Goldman's work with with basically emotional intelligence building. That's the 1st step. Being selfish or self aware, like, what do I think? What are? What do I think in this situation? What are what are my needs. I'm this is how I show up right.
00:20:25.540 --> 00:20:39.180 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Next step in emotional intelligence. Building is empathy towards others, empathy for others, and their different perspectives and situations that takes us to the platinum rule. So treat others the way they want to be treated.
00:20:39.300 --> 00:20:42.130 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Now, the only way to figure that out is
00:20:42.390 --> 00:21:02.560 R. Karl Hebenstreit: to talk to them. So we have to talk to people, we have to have relationships with them. We have to ask them, we have to have discourse and really figure out, what is it that makes them tick. What's important to them? What are their values? How do they think about things? What are their feeling styles or thinking styles? Their action styles all these different things.
00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:07.210 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So then, we have Golden rule, self-awareness.
00:21:07.330 --> 00:21:24.640 R. Karl Hebenstreit: platinum rule, empathy. The next step in Daniel Goldman's work is do something with it, integrate it. So it's great to have the knowledge that this other way of thinking exists, or this other worldview or perspective exists, and guess what it's equally valid to your own.
00:21:25.230 --> 00:21:39.620 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So if we still stay stuck in Golden Rule, we're going to think our way is the best. There is no other way with empathy. We start seeing other ways and realizing, oh, there are other ways of thinking about things. And oh, wow! I guess they do make sense. If you think about them.
00:21:39.740 --> 00:21:43.269 R. Karl Hebenstreit: 3rd step. Now we're going to go. Call it the Rhodian rule.
00:21:43.270 --> 00:21:43.800 Mira Brancu: -
00:21:43.810 --> 00:21:58.570 R. Karl Hebenstreit: How do we integrate that new perspective, that new knowledge, that new worldview into our own, to have more of a growth mindset, expand our mindset in our worldview, so that we truly do see the world the way that it is
00:21:59.980 --> 00:22:02.260 R. Karl Hebenstreit: as opposed to just the way that we are.
00:22:02.970 --> 00:22:13.719 Mira Brancu: Yeah, rhodium. I actually, when I read your book, I actually had to look it up. I was like, What's rhodium, did you? Where did you? Did you come up with that? Where did you come up.
00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:29.889 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So I went. So I did. I looked at it. And I said, Okay, gold expensive. Whatever. Right? Platinum more expensive. Is there something that's even more expensive than platinum. And rhodium is within the platinum family. And it's the most expensive platinum. So I'm like, okay, let's go with that.
00:22:29.890 --> 00:22:30.830 Mira Brancu: Nice nice.
00:22:30.830 --> 00:22:41.270 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And then so that. So someone was asking me how to spell it recently, and it's so it's RHOD, IUM. And I like RO. Like the first.st My 1st initial
00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:44.379 R. Karl Hebenstreit: right, and H. Is in my last name.
00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:47.100 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And Od, as in what I do. Organization, development.
00:22:47.100 --> 00:22:47.990 Mira Brancu: Nice.
00:22:48.600 --> 00:22:51.040 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Then you add, Ium.
00:22:51.650 --> 00:22:58.809 Mira Brancu: Okay, that's perfect. I love it. I love it. So. Yeah, I I really love this idea of first, st you.
00:22:59.140 --> 00:23:05.029 Mira Brancu: you know, you go inward, which is what a lot of coaches do is focus on that self awareness.
00:23:05.030 --> 00:23:05.670 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yes.
00:23:06.042 --> 00:23:16.470 Mira Brancu: And then you go outward, and you focus on learning kind of how somebody else is experiencing, you know, in their perspective. But this sort of like integration
00:23:16.890 --> 00:23:23.110 Mira Brancu: in order to have a larger perspective, is so critical for leaders to be able to step back.
00:23:23.410 --> 00:23:28.929 Mira Brancu: taken lots of different perspectives and then sort of like, try to decide what to do with that.
00:23:29.050 --> 00:23:31.740 Mira Brancu: So I really, I really like that a lot.
00:23:32.550 --> 00:23:39.990 Mira Brancu: So now let's let's get into sort of specifics in your book you have these 7 C's of explicit.
00:23:39.990 --> 00:23:40.330 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Thanks, bye.
00:23:40.330 --> 00:23:58.780 Mira Brancu: You have these kind of 5 effective practices that you apply to all of these different ways of engaging as a leader, I'd love for you to spend a little time sharing with our audience. You know, what are those 7 C's, how to think about them, how to apply to effective leadership practices.
00:23:59.490 --> 00:24:08.350 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah, thank you for that. So the 7 C's were basically a response to the fact that we are living in very.
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:35.779 R. Karl Hebenstreit: very challenging times, so I don't know if people used to be calling it Vuca times of Vuca volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity. And then the new term that's been expanded from. That is bonnie, so brittle, which challenges our assumption, that of strength, that the world is strength, and it'll all work out, and it'll be strong and resilient, and the reality is, it's very brittle, especially right now. It's very brittle.
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:49.439 R. Karl Hebenstreit: The A. Would be for times of anxiety, right? So the anxiety is because we have an illusion that we can. We do have control over many things. And and we're seeing more so that the control doesn't exist
00:24:49.700 --> 00:24:56.390 R. Karl Hebenstreit: right? We can control some things, but we can't control as many things as we'd want to control. So there's an anxiety that that results from that
00:24:56.770 --> 00:25:08.739 R. Karl Hebenstreit: nonlinear. The N is for nonlinear. So nonlinear is that we we are hoping to make things predictable and then create systems and models that predict things. And the reality is, we can't really do that.
00:25:09.420 --> 00:25:32.040 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And then the eye is more, for it reminds me of the Princess Bride. Inconceivable, incomprehensible. And it's pretty much the same thing. We just can't make sense of it. We we think that there's a way to make sense of everything, but it really is difficult, and it's incomprehensible at times. So to create some sort of
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:41.190 R. Karl Hebenstreit: solidity, some some stability, something. We need these 7 C's, and we look to our managers and our leaders to do this.
00:25:41.580 --> 00:25:45.409 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and I think the most effective managers and leaders do this very well.
00:25:45.700 --> 00:26:04.869 R. Karl Hebenstreit: One of the 1st things that a manager or leader should be doing with their teams and with their organizations is to make sure that they have clarity. People don't want to be confused right? They're looking to the leader to say, what direction are we going in? And, by the way, why, why are we doing this so ultimately starting with why? And
00:26:05.650 --> 00:26:17.470 R. Karl Hebenstreit: that's tying to the mission? And the reason we're here and really look for clarity into direction and directionality, maybe not necessarily telling them exactly what to do, because no one wants to be micromanaged. But
00:26:17.580 --> 00:26:22.390 R. Karl Hebenstreit: tell me where we're going. Give me that vision, that clarity of vision, and and tell me how much
00:26:22.830 --> 00:26:27.589 R. Karl Hebenstreit: control I have in that certain situation. How much authority I have to make this happen?
00:26:29.155 --> 00:26:29.700 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Then
00:26:29.810 --> 00:26:36.320 R. Karl Hebenstreit: you don't want a leader who's gonna be wishy washy. You don't want them to say one thing one day, and then another thing the next day.
00:26:36.350 --> 00:26:57.040 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So you're not going to think of that person as being confident or inspiring confidence, or even consistent. So we really need leaders that are not only consistent in what they say, but are also consistent with the organization. What the organization is saying. So all leaders have to be saying the same message. We don't want to be again. We don't want to create confusion.
00:26:57.040 --> 00:27:15.679 R. Karl Hebenstreit: All people are looking for is that clarity and that consistency. And like, Okay, great. Now, I feel more comfortable. I feel like I can be safe here right because my leader is being clear and is telling me exactly what's going on, and that telling me exactly what's going on is that communication part.
00:27:15.830 --> 00:27:22.999 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Whenever we have employee engagement surveys or employee satisfaction surveys. We always get the same number one complaint.
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:30.430 R. Karl Hebenstreit: I don't get enough communication, or the communication isn't clear, or they're not telling me what's going on. I want more communication of what's really going on
00:27:31.040 --> 00:27:36.530 R. Karl Hebenstreit: through all the channels, and it needs to be consistent. Right? We're going back to that consistency again.
00:27:37.490 --> 00:27:38.530 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Then.
00:27:39.010 --> 00:27:58.549 R. Karl Hebenstreit: again. Most people don't want to be told what to do. They want to be in an environment where they're collaborative. So they want teamwork. They want to work with other people. So they want to have an environment of collaboration where they are heard, their voices are heard, they are included. They don't feel like they're being pushed down or not listened to.
00:27:58.550 --> 00:28:15.170 R. Karl Hebenstreit: They're there for they were hired for a reason. People are hired for their skill, sets their ideas, their backgrounds, their expertise. They want that to be. They want to be able to contribute that and to be heard and included and not be shut down. So that collaborative environment where that psychological safety can exist is really really important.
00:28:15.330 --> 00:28:43.249 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and that psychological safety can only exist through compassion. That's the other. C, so the compassion, the empathy, the understanding of each individual team, members, situation. What's going on? What do you need again? How do you want to be rewarded? What passions do you have that we can. We can find ways of using those strengths in the workplace. We don't want to disengage you by having you work on things you don't like to do. We want to make sure that you are engaged.
00:28:43.600 --> 00:28:50.839 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and the last thing is again not telling people what to do, but coaching them and developing them and growing them through coaching.
00:28:51.300 --> 00:28:59.439 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So those 7 C's are clarity, consistency, confidence, communication, collaboration, compassion, and coaching.
00:29:01.110 --> 00:29:07.052 Mira Brancu: That was great, a great summary and overview. Thank you. There's a few things that came up for me.
00:29:07.950 --> 00:29:13.960 Mira Brancu: Between the clarity, consistency, confidence and communication.
00:29:14.280 --> 00:29:15.353 Mira Brancu: I thought.
00:29:16.290 --> 00:29:21.230 Mira Brancu: Sometimes leaders think they have to have the answers to be able to
00:29:21.730 --> 00:29:27.379 Mira Brancu: communicate confidently to communicate clearly with clarity.
00:29:27.490 --> 00:29:45.570 Mira Brancu: So and we're reaching an airbreak. So when we come back, I want to talk about this sort of idea of like? Do you have to have all the answers? What if you don't have all the answers in a sea of uncertainty? What do you do to still be clear, to still communicate, to still be consistent and compassionate, and all of these things
00:29:45.820 --> 00:29:49.669 Mira Brancu: but in the world of
00:29:51.020 --> 00:30:03.750 Mira Brancu: sort of incomprehensible, you know uncertainty in all of this stuff. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Mira Branku and our guests today are Carl heavenstrike, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:31:34.870 --> 00:32:01.729 Mira Brancu: Hello! Hello! You're back to the hard skills with me, Mira Branku and our guest today, Carl heavenstrite. And we've been talking about the 7 C's. Of explicit expectations from his book, Explicit Expectations, and one of the sort of pitfalls and or assumptions that some leaders make when they hear things like. Oh, I have to be clear and consistent and and communicate effectively.
00:32:01.790 --> 00:32:07.979 Mira Brancu: but they're in a world where things are constantly changing, constantly moving. It's hard for them
00:32:08.190 --> 00:32:11.910 Mira Brancu: to provide that clear
00:32:12.120 --> 00:32:21.419 Mira Brancu: vision or even like what's happening. You know every sort of day, sometimes for them they can get overwhelmed.
00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:24.380 Mira Brancu: How can they still meet these.
00:32:24.380 --> 00:32:24.740 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah.
00:32:24.740 --> 00:32:34.720 Mira Brancu: Sort of communication best practices in a way that sort of takes in. You know how difficult it is to
00:32:35.090 --> 00:32:38.253 Mira Brancu: just know what you're doing on any given moment.
00:32:38.570 --> 00:32:50.640 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah, no, that's a great question. It's a huge challenge for leaders nowadays, and the reality is they leader. Our leaders do not have all the answers. They are
00:32:50.950 --> 00:33:17.119 R. Karl Hebenstreit: tasked, and they've been put in this role in order to find the best way of doing things. But as a leader you don't have to have all the right answers. You just have to have the right people that you're working with to help come up with the answer. If you create this environment, this inclusive environment, where people feel psychologically safe. And one of the C's is collaboration. So you will collaborate with people. And one of the other Cs is coaching, so coach them find out what their ideas are
00:33:17.180 --> 00:33:26.079 R. Karl Hebenstreit: right. If we were operating just under the Golden Rule it would be. I'm the leader. I know everything. I know all the answers, but that's not true. No one can.
00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:42.779 R. Karl Hebenstreit: The only way to know all the answers is to include others to expand to platinum rule, tap into their skill, sets their knowledge, their ideas, their past experiences, their different worldviews and perspectives that can show you a different way of doing things that, by the way, could be better.
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:50.820 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And the more diversity we have in our team members and their perspectives and their backgrounds and their experiences and histories.
00:33:51.060 --> 00:33:55.340 R. Karl Hebenstreit: the better solutions and the more innovative solutions will be created.
00:33:55.730 --> 00:34:00.419 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And, by the way, by having the team come up with a solution.
00:34:01.320 --> 00:34:04.529 R. Karl Hebenstreit: The team will buy into it far more.
00:34:05.600 --> 00:34:09.620 Mira Brancu: Heavily, or more so than if it's being dictated to them.
00:34:09.889 --> 00:34:12.139 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Because they've come up with it. They own it
00:34:12.590 --> 00:34:18.270 R. Karl Hebenstreit: so they feel like they own it. So that's it's really. I mean, it sounds like I'm oversimplifying it. But it that's the way.
00:34:18.600 --> 00:34:32.089 Mira Brancu: Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean it sounds simple, but it does take some time to gather those perspectives and to align around. You know what
00:34:32.630 --> 00:34:36.300 Mira Brancu: message we might send. Given these different
00:34:36.790 --> 00:34:41.850 Mira Brancu: perspectives in different areas of expertise that people are bringing and what you know each.
00:34:42.120 --> 00:34:45.409 Mira Brancu: But it's like that old metaphor.
00:34:45.510 --> 00:34:56.819 Mira Brancu: you can each be holding one piece of the elephant, or you can come together, describe what you're holding onto here, and actually describe the elephant when you get there right.
00:34:56.820 --> 00:34:58.030 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Together. Yeah.
00:34:58.712 --> 00:35:09.010 R. Karl Hebenstreit: yeah, it's it also takes. I mean, ego comes into play here, too. Right? I'm the leader. I need to know. I have the answers. My way is the right way.
00:35:09.555 --> 00:35:22.399 R. Karl Hebenstreit: There's no other way to do it. It's setting aside that part of you, and realizing that you cannot do this alone, you will burn yourself out, and you don't have the right answers all the time. You just can't. You're human.
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:34.789 Mira Brancu: Let's apply that to the confidence one. Because a lot of leaders feel like, and it makes sense that you want to exude a certain level of confidence in you. Right.
00:35:34.790 --> 00:35:35.340 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yes.
00:35:35.901 --> 00:35:38.060 Mira Brancu: When you do that, though
00:35:38.250 --> 00:35:46.710 Mira Brancu: sometimes. It goes in kind of a counter. Counter useful, you know.
00:35:46.910 --> 00:35:49.469 Mira Brancu: Effort where you're either
00:35:50.113 --> 00:36:00.449 Mira Brancu: shutting down access to you as a human being, a vulnerable human being who's working through their, you know, working through it yourself. Or
00:36:01.306 --> 00:36:05.600 Mira Brancu: you are displaying something. You're not, or you're.
00:36:05.600 --> 00:36:06.220 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Ego gets.
00:36:06.220 --> 00:36:14.689 Mira Brancu: Involved. Right, as you said so. What do you actually mean by confidence, and how you can capitalize on the
00:36:14.870 --> 00:36:17.080 Mira Brancu: most effective kind of confidence.
00:36:17.080 --> 00:36:17.630 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah.
00:36:18.040 --> 00:36:46.919 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So what I mean by confidence is the ability to step in when necessary, the ability to make a decision when required, the ability to take control of a situation when it's absolutely necessary to do so, and the confidence to exactly what you talked about earlier, to know that you can be vulnerable. You're so confident that you know that you can show your vulnerability, and that will make you even more powerful and stronger in the eyes of your teams and your organization.
00:36:46.970 --> 00:36:58.359 R. Karl Hebenstreit: because that that takes a lot of confidence to show vulnerability and strength to show vulnerability, and it only makes you more confident and stronger, not confidence in in to the extreme of
00:36:58.590 --> 00:37:04.090 R. Karl Hebenstreit: of arrogance. Right? Definitely, not confidence at the extreme of arrogance. It's like
00:37:04.590 --> 00:37:20.579 R. Karl Hebenstreit: I'm going to show up strong. I'm also going to be vulnerable. I'm going to be empathetic. I'm going to be here for my people. I'm going to support them, and I will make the hard decisions when it's necessary to do so. And my people, my team, will know that I have their best interests at heart
00:37:20.950 --> 00:37:23.629 R. Karl Hebenstreit: when I am making these difficult decisions.
00:37:23.990 --> 00:37:25.530 Mira Brancu: Yeah, you know
00:37:25.650 --> 00:37:32.923 Mira Brancu: another way, as I'm thinking about it, just talking with you. Another way to think about confidence is humility. You know it's it's
00:37:33.490 --> 00:37:35.800 Mira Brancu: and and especially for
00:37:36.227 --> 00:38:04.870 Mira Brancu: folks who either have a lot of power and privilege, you know, in an organization, or for folks from a marginalized background, you know. There's always this like incredibly tenuous line around like, how do I show up in a way that that builds confidence in me as a leader, so that people feel like they can trust me right and but if you're bringing humility to it, and you're saying
00:38:05.010 --> 00:38:07.280 Mira Brancu: there are some things I know I don't know.
00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:17.089 Mira Brancu: and there are people I know who can help provide additional information, who could be part of the team, and it goes back to that collaboration piece that you mentioned.
00:38:17.610 --> 00:38:22.399 Mira Brancu: That's the confidence people are are really drawn to. That exudes trust
00:38:22.520 --> 00:38:25.419 Mira Brancu: right? Right? Not the sort of like performative confidence.
00:38:25.420 --> 00:38:27.460 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Exactly exactly.
00:38:27.620 --> 00:38:43.779 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and I think all the 7 C's together contribute to that. They contribute to the vulnerability and the the humility of the leader who relies and supports the team members to be a stronger unit as opposed to
00:38:43.930 --> 00:38:47.749 R. Karl Hebenstreit: the strength, is all in me. It's not. The strength is in the team.
00:38:48.356 --> 00:38:51.408 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, it reminds me of of
00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:58.039 Mira Brancu: you know, just thinking about how old school models of leadership
00:38:58.170 --> 00:39:05.749 Mira Brancu: are all about, command and control, and I have all the answers, single hero, model, right? And what you're.
00:39:05.750 --> 00:39:06.530 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And a failure.
00:39:06.790 --> 00:39:07.920 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Single failure.
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:08.600 Mira Brancu: Too. Yeah.
00:39:09.140 --> 00:39:11.665 Mira Brancu: And what you're sort of
00:39:12.550 --> 00:39:16.179 Mira Brancu: reminding us that is, is that in this day and age.
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:18.809 R. Karl Hebenstreit: It doesn't work well anymore.
00:39:19.200 --> 00:39:24.800 Mira Brancu: It's a sort of team based leadership and
00:39:24.980 --> 00:39:28.180 Mira Brancu: leaders who know how to create
00:39:28.380 --> 00:39:33.960 Mira Brancu: a thriving environment for everyone to perform at their highest levels together
00:39:34.110 --> 00:39:41.467 Mira Brancu: will be the ones using these 7 C's will be the ones to to best sort of
00:39:42.190 --> 00:39:45.929 Mira Brancu: lead people through this bonnie world of ours.
00:39:46.700 --> 00:39:57.549 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah. And think of, think of all that, that stress that is removed from the leader that now doesn't have to take that all on themselves
00:39:57.680 --> 00:40:04.980 R. Karl Hebenstreit: about. I need to know everything. I need to have all the answers I need to to be the have the best way of doing things
00:40:05.100 --> 00:40:20.910 R. Karl Hebenstreit: to now say, let me facilitate this from all of this experience, and all of the backgrounds and histories of my teams, to come up with the best possible way. Not no, no! One single person should have to have all that on on their shoulders.
00:40:20.910 --> 00:40:24.853 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. So. Going back now to
00:40:26.650 --> 00:40:31.240 Mira Brancu: these principles of explicit expectations. I would love to hear
00:40:32.160 --> 00:40:55.770 Mira Brancu: a a a client case, for example, or a situation that you saw this happening and and or help people work through developing stronger, explicit expectation processes around these 7 C's. I'd love to hear? Kind of like, what does it sound like? What does it look like? And you know, what can people imagine themselves doing better.
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:06.570 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah. So whenever I do a team building with any organization with any team, these come into play for sure, because what we're doing is, we're approaching it from the standpoint of
00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:08.540 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Golden Rule.
00:41:08.700 --> 00:41:14.810 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Let me be aware of my own preferences, my own values, my own motivators.
00:41:15.080 --> 00:41:19.670 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and then finding out, oh, wait! There are more. There are others there are different.
00:41:19.830 --> 00:41:22.609 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So then you find out from your team.
00:41:22.940 --> 00:41:41.019 R. Karl Hebenstreit: or even your it may not even be your team. Right? So sometimes it's a leadership team, and you have your peers there. So they're not necessarily your your direct reports, but they're your peers, and then you're finding out that all of your peers have different thinking styles or feeling styles or action styles.
00:41:41.260 --> 00:41:58.350 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And sometimes it's really really funny when I have a large enough group of like 50 or 60 people, and I separate them out into their different motivation styles, or feeling styles, or whatever people I put them by whatever they they are, and people end up sitting next to their best friend at work. And they're like
00:41:59.690 --> 00:42:01.959 R. Karl Hebenstreit: same style, thinking, feeling, and acting.
00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:02.650 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:42:02.650 --> 00:42:06.335 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And I don't get along as well with that other person that's on the other side of the room.
00:42:06.740 --> 00:42:27.369 R. Karl Hebenstreit: because we don't. We have totally different ways of thinking, feeling, and acting. And now I'm seeing why I don't quite understand them. But now I see the value in their way of thinking, feeling, and acting, and they're not just doing something to push my hot buttons. This is ultimately, really how they're viewing the world and experiencing the world. And, by the way, what can I learn from that.
00:42:28.020 --> 00:42:37.929 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So that's always what happens when I do. Team building exercises with small or even large teams. The big epiphanies come even without introducing a model
00:42:38.780 --> 00:42:46.089 R. Karl Hebenstreit: to show that there are differences in thinking, feeling, and acting even within this, this team of of
00:42:46.210 --> 00:42:48.229 R. Karl Hebenstreit: colleagues of equals.
00:42:48.420 --> 00:43:02.260 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And then their minds start going to. Okay. Now let me think about what's going on with my direct reports. Oh, and also my family. And and they start seeing some of the challenges with the interpersonal dynamics that they're having at home or with their families as well.
00:43:02.260 --> 00:43:22.419 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So in every single. And this is hundreds and hundreds of teams that I've been working with to do this. Those are their biggest epiphanies, and whenever they change constellation, whenever they have a new leader, whenever they move into a different. Whenever a reorganization or restructure, they bring me back again, because they see the value of learning that.
00:43:22.430 --> 00:43:26.930 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and understanding that about each other, and how they can move forward
00:43:27.331 --> 00:43:35.959 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and be successful without those challenges of this person's out to get me, or this person doesn't understand me, or I don't know why, they're thinking like that or doing what they're doing.
00:43:36.310 --> 00:43:48.509 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So it's really eye opening. And hopefully, they're also integrating all of that additional knowledge for themselves, not just working with their people. But even if they are just using it to work with their teammates, that's a win.
00:43:48.720 --> 00:44:04.300 Mira Brancu: That's right. Yeah. So we're reaching another ad break when we come back. I'd love to hear how these affect the 5 effective leadership practices. You mentioned that in your book, and also
00:44:05.100 --> 00:44:10.590 Mira Brancu: talking through kind of a couple of examples of
00:44:11.710 --> 00:44:20.549 Mira Brancu: you know the most common, let's say, conflicts that you see, and how to have an explicit conversation.
00:44:20.550 --> 00:44:21.410 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah.
00:44:21.410 --> 00:44:32.860 Mira Brancu: Yeah, all right. So you're listening to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Carl, have been streit of explicit expectations, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:46:08.900 --> 00:46:15.249 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Mira Branku and our guests today are Carl Hebensright
00:46:15.510 --> 00:46:43.069 Mira Brancu: and we have been talking through some ways to apply his framework to different con conflict situations, and different sort of styles of how we work and expanding our our knowledge and experience and perspectives, and I was thinking, through a couple of very specific examples of how explicit exploitation expectations might sound.
00:46:43.370 --> 00:46:49.110 Mira Brancu: and a couple that came up for me were just thinking about
00:46:49.230 --> 00:46:56.300 Mira Brancu: the the idea of over communicating. We often when we communicate.
00:46:56.520 --> 00:47:16.079 Mira Brancu: we have the transparency illusion, the the bias that we think it's more obvious to everybody than it actually is that we're more clear than we actually are. And then we get annoyed when people don't get it don't understand. Argue in a way that we have no idea where they came from. Right. And so
00:47:16.210 --> 00:47:21.280 Mira Brancu: some practical tips around that, you know, would be sort of
00:47:21.390 --> 00:47:23.680 Mira Brancu: framing what you're going to say.
00:47:23.780 --> 00:47:40.039 Mira Brancu: hey? I'm I'm going in this direction. I'm gonna talk about this because it's important to me, because and if you're confused about, it's probably good. If you ask me some questions, and then you say your thing, and then you check in right. That's over communicating.
00:47:40.410 --> 00:47:43.310 Mira Brancu: and it's more important to over communicate with
00:47:43.600 --> 00:47:46.000 Mira Brancu: people you don't have a strong relationship with.
00:47:46.373 --> 00:48:02.499 Mira Brancu: You know, if if you have been with your spouse for 30 years. You can look at each other and and communicate that way like there's nothing needs to be said, or you can complete your sentences. But that's not the case with people who are new in your life, and are just getting to know you and your style. So that's 1 thing that came up for me
00:48:03.030 --> 00:48:19.729 Mira Brancu: when thinking about how to apply this idea of communication, for example, to being an effective leader? Are there other effective leadership practices? That sort of you, you find that are like really helpful or practical tips that would be helpful for folks.
00:48:20.120 --> 00:48:23.849 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah. So so, continuing on with the communication, because that really
00:48:24.150 --> 00:48:49.530 R. Karl Hebenstreit: falls into many different categories that that touches every category of leadership. So if we don't know who our audience is. Like we we they're brand new. You're brand new leader. You don't. You have to dress them for the 1st time. You have no idea what they're interested in or what they're what they're focused on. There is a checklist in the book about the make sure you answer these 9 questions and absolutely start with the why, why are we doing this? Why is this important?
00:48:49.800 --> 00:49:16.630 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Why is this related to our mission, or how is it going to help us achieve our goals right? And there are 9 different things that you can go down. What's the effect on the impact on the people, the stakeholders or clients, or whatever it is? How is this interesting and unique? And how does it help our brand, our image or reputation? Why is it logical? Why is it what we should be doing, based on what's going on with our with
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:36.719 R. Karl Hebenstreit: evidence that we have or research that we've done? What backup plans do we have? If things go wrong, how does it help us to grow our vision to expand and maybe partner with other organizations, or whatever, what's within our scope to control what's within our purview. And then how does this fit the whole system?
00:49:36.720 --> 00:49:37.110 R. Karl Hebenstreit: How does
00:49:37.110 --> 00:49:46.519 R. Karl Hebenstreit: really help us to thrive as a system and meet every single need that we have. So if you hit those 9 key points that's going to address what everyone is.
00:49:46.910 --> 00:49:58.419 R. Karl Hebenstreit: it's gonna each human being in your audience is going to be interested in at least one of those I saw that masterfully done, by the way, by Samsung last year, when they launched their their new flagship
00:49:59.018 --> 00:50:03.791 R. Karl Hebenstreit: cell phone and they addressed all 9 of those. And I was like, good for you.
00:50:04.090 --> 00:50:06.010 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Wow, yes, no. But.
00:50:06.010 --> 00:50:07.300 Mira Brancu: No, seriously.
00:50:09.110 --> 00:50:23.450 Mira Brancu: those those questions are so so good and so important. And I can't tell you how many times I hear leaders start a discussion, and it feels like it's halfway through a thought.
00:50:23.790 --> 00:50:24.370 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah.
00:50:24.640 --> 00:50:30.559 Mira Brancu: And and then what happens is, everyone is confused
00:50:30.810 --> 00:50:33.799 Mira Brancu: and they're either silent. Worst case scenario.
00:50:34.240 --> 00:50:37.289 Mira Brancu: you know, or they start
00:50:37.450 --> 00:50:45.700 Mira Brancu: like asking a billion questions picking it apart, feeling stressed and frustrated because the leader didn't start with
00:50:45.830 --> 00:50:48.090 Mira Brancu: all of that stuff you just described.
00:50:48.260 --> 00:50:48.900 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Right.
00:50:49.100 --> 00:50:55.230 Mira Brancu: You're connecting the dots. You're helping people connect the dots to all of the big picture, all of the perspective.
00:50:55.620 --> 00:50:59.580 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah, and how it's going to impact them. And the people that they care about.
00:50:59.890 --> 00:51:24.419 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Right? Yeah. So that's that's the those checklist. And that checklist of 9 items can be applied in a variety of different settings for change management, for just normal communication, for for you were talking about communicating and it going awry. Delegation is a great example of that. Someone feel a leader feels. Oh, I'm going to delegate this. This is a great learning opportunity for for Mira. Let you know. Here, Mira, do this. And you're like.
00:51:24.580 --> 00:51:50.960 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Okay, I'm going to do it from my perspective, my, my golden Rule perspective. And the leader is like. No, no, no, my Golden Rule perspective is that you would do it this way. There was no communication and no expectation set about what you could do, how far you could take it, how much risk is involved? When is the deadline? What does good look like? By the way, do you understand the concept. And one of the things one of the best practices that we talk about in the book is.
00:51:51.630 --> 00:51:57.410 R. Karl Hebenstreit: bring that back up. So, Mira, go ahead and type up an email and say, this is what I heard you say.
00:51:57.540 --> 00:52:12.699 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Is this, what what's expected, what your expectations are? And that gives the leader a chance to say yes or no no a week earlier, and on this one and a week later for that one, and don't include these people on that, because that's only gonna they don't need to know that yet, or whatever it is. Right.
00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:16.370 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So it's really a way to set those explicit expectations.
00:52:16.570 --> 00:52:19.459 Mira Brancu: I love that. It's a it's a sort of back and forth.
00:52:19.460 --> 00:52:20.000 R. Karl Hebenstreit: - like.
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:30.969 Mira Brancu: Like it's it's there's 2 people involved or more. Right? So that's great managing up, you know, like, did I hear right? Is this what you want of? Are those your expectations right?
00:52:30.970 --> 00:52:31.370 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Yeah.
00:52:31.370 --> 00:52:33.970 Mira Brancu: And a lot of
00:52:34.290 --> 00:52:49.819 Mira Brancu: leaders and managers sometimes try so hard to not micromanage that they don't provide you with enough information to know what to do, and then they end up micromanaging later, after you've started the work, because you haven't had those explicit expectations that you.
00:52:49.820 --> 00:52:56.130 R. Karl Hebenstreit: I subscribe exactly. Now I know earlier, you asked about the 5 5
00:52:56.410 --> 00:53:13.430 R. Karl Hebenstreit: requirements or expectations of leaders, and that and that's not my work that I mean, that is attributed to Cusis and Posner, and those were, inspire a shared vision which comes across with the clarity, this the sea of clarity model. The way show people, you know, be a role model for what's expected.
00:53:13.490 --> 00:53:33.469 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and that's again with clarity and also the consistency and confidence. I would say, that goes along with their challenge, the process. We could do this better and actually have people challenge and support your people in challenging the process, because there's a better way to do it. There could be a faster way, less expensive way, a more meaningful way, something that could expand our horizons even more
00:53:34.340 --> 00:53:43.300 R. Karl Hebenstreit: connect with each of your people. Get to know each of your people. And that's the empathy. And that's really again, the only way that you're gonna be able to achieve all of your goals in the organization.
00:53:43.440 --> 00:54:00.900 R. Karl Hebenstreit: and then enable others to act. Remove the obstacles that are in their way, and again, by connecting with your people, you will be able to find out what those obstacles are, so that you, in a in your position of authority, may have some ability cross functionally and across the company to remove some of those obstacles for them.
00:54:01.940 --> 00:54:09.559 Mira Brancu: Beautiful, beautiful! Thank you for sharing all of these gold nuggets. Oh, no platinum, no rhodium.
00:54:09.560 --> 00:54:10.120 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Oh, really.
00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:11.170 Mira Brancu: The rodium number.
00:54:11.897 --> 00:54:22.250 Mira Brancu: What is one thing out of all of the things that you've shared today, which it was a lot of great stuff. What's the one thing that you want people to take away from today?
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:40.980 R. Karl Hebenstreit: To be more inclusive, to expand their mindsets and horizons, and be open to all of the other experiences and mindsets that are out there, and to integrate them into their own, because only that way will you truly understand what's really going on
00:54:41.090 --> 00:54:45.680 R. Karl Hebenstreit: in the world? You'll be able to see the whole world as opposed to just a 40 degree sliver of it.
00:54:45.950 --> 00:54:50.549 Mira Brancu: Love it, love it. And where can people find you if they want to learn more.
00:54:51.658 --> 00:54:59.320 R. Karl Hebenstreit: So they can go to my website, perform and function.com. They can find me on Linkedin under our Carl heavenstride.
00:54:59.520 --> 00:55:04.209 R. Karl Hebenstreit: my books are available on Amazon, and also through Ingram Spark.
00:55:04.550 --> 00:55:06.740 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And yeah.
00:55:06.740 --> 00:55:08.460 Mira Brancu: Awesome, and for those of you.
00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:09.772 R. Karl Hebenstreit: And on your show.
00:55:10.100 --> 00:55:30.399 Mira Brancu: And on my show, those of you who are watching right now, or watching the recording later. Through video, I have perform and function.com up so you can see what you'll find there. So much information is available here. And, by the way, Carl has an AI bot definitely look that up. I'm just gonna.
00:55:30.862 --> 00:55:35.487 R. Karl Hebenstreit: About all the time on this show. You never know.
00:55:35.950 --> 00:55:51.219 Mira Brancu: We're not gonna share anymore. Go to his website and check it out audience, what did you take away from today? And more importantly, what is one small change you can implement this week, based on what you learn from Carl. Share it with us on Linkedin.
00:55:51.390 --> 00:56:11.190 Mira Brancu: You'll find us there. You'll find talkradio, dot Nyc there and talk radio is also on Facebook Instagram, Twitter, twitch, apple, spotify Amazon Podcasts all over the place. So please find the episode there. It'll be posted soon and help us increase our visibility. Reach and impact by leaving a review.
00:56:11.380 --> 00:56:26.110 Mira Brancu: The stuff that I like to talk about on this show is also part of my research-based strategic leadership, pathway, roadmap that I use to help organizational misfits on their leadership journey. And you can find out more@gotowerscope.com.
00:56:26.650 --> 00:56:41.549 Mira Brancu: and thank you. Talkradio dot Nyc. For hosting. Thank you for joining us today, Carl. Heavens! Right with explicit expectations. Thank you so much. Have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from
00:56:41.740 --> 00:56:42.700 Mira Brancu: bye. Everybody.
00:56:43.030 --> 00:56:43.960 R. Karl Hebenstreit: Thank you. Everyone.
00:56:44.490 --> 00:56:46.490 Mira Brancu: Great to have you bye.
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