This week, on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam is pleased to welcome Author, Astrologer, Dean, and Executive Director, Cathy Coleman, Ph.D.
Cathy was Ralph Metzner’s wife of 31 years (1988-2019). She worked at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) as Director of Student Services and later Dean of Students when Ralph was Academic Dean and professor.
Cathy later worked as Executive Director of EarthRise Retreat Center at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, as President of Kepler College (of Astrological Arts and Scienes), and with CIIS’ Center for Psychedelic-Assisted Therapies and Research.
She was co-founder with Ralph Metzner, and is a current board member of the Green Earth Foundation. She is also a professional consulting astrologer.
Her latest book, Ralph Metzner, Explorer of Consciousness: The Life and Legacy of a Psychedelic Pioneer reveals the vast impact of Ralph Metzner’s healing therapies and wisdom on colleagues, students, clients, and the fields in which he worked.
Tune in and share all of your questions and comments about your own psychedelic experiences on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
Sam Liebowitz opens the show by exploring the idea that holding on to joy can be just as challenging as enduring difficult emotions, emphasizing that deep inner work is essential for expanding our capacity for happiness. He encourages listeners to observe how long they can sustain good feelings without self-sabotage, suggesting that our ability to hold joy is tied to our self-worth and the unconscious beliefs we carry. The episode then transitions into an insightful conversation with Dr. Cathy Coleman, who shares her experiences as the wife of renowned psychedelic pioneer Ralph Metzner, offering a glimpse into his profound contributions to consciousness exploration, psychology, and spirituality.
Ralph Metzner’s lifelong pursuit was the expansion of consciousness, which he approached with deep intentionality and awareness, believing that personal responsibility for one's own consciousness was key to transformation. His psychedelic experiences profoundly shifted his worldview, leading him to explore various modalities, including psychology, mythology, and esoteric traditions, as pathways to healing and personal growth. Dr. Cathy Coleman shares insights into his careful, methodical approach to psychedelics, his dedication to helping others process their ancestral and personal traumas, and how his work continues to influence seekers on their own journeys of self-discovery.
Dr. Cathy Coleman’s book, Ralph Metzner, Explorer of Consciousness, is a powerful collection of essays from notable figures like Stanislav Grof, Dennis McKenna, and Rick Doblin, each offering unique perspectives on Metzner’s vast contributions to psychology, psychedelics, and spirituality. These reflections highlight Ralph’s multifaceted nature as a healer, scholar, and visionary who brought new dimensions to academia, personal transformation, and the intersection of mythology, ecology, and consciousness. The book serves as an inspiration for seekers to embrace their own journeys of self-exploration, emphasizing the power of the mind to shape reality and the importance of living with deep awareness and intention.
The Green Earth Foundation, founded by Ralph Metzner and Dr. Cathy Coleman, was created as a publishing platform for Metzner’s work, focusing on consciousness, ecology, and psychology, and led to the publication of his influential book Allies for Awakening. Ralph’s openness to multiple perspectives extended to his views on psychedelics, as he believed in holding space for both traditional, shamanic practices and modern medical approaches, while maintaining a deep concern for integrity in the field. Dr. Coleman reflects on Metzner’s wisdom and legacy, emphasizing his ability to embrace complexity, his reverence for responsible psychedelic use, and his inspiration for future generations to explore consciousness with depth and care.
00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:53.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators. Good morning. Good evening. Wherever you're tuning in from
00:00:53.270 --> 00:01:22.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: welcome to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. I am very, very pleased, as always that you are here with me today. We've got a wonderful show in store for you, with a fascinating woman who wrote a great book about a wonderful person, her husband, and we'll get right into that in just a moment. But first, st of course, we have my blog post from a couple of years ago.
00:01:23.160 --> 00:01:29.709 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and this one is entitled, when we truly feel good about ourselves.
00:01:29.970 --> 00:01:32.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we can hold even more joy.
00:01:34.220 --> 00:01:37.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We all have certain limits in our lives.
00:01:37.900 --> 00:01:41.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: not just external limits, but internal ones.
00:01:41.700 --> 00:01:46.150 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We have the ability to hold certain feelings to a point.
00:01:47.050 --> 00:01:52.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Often we think the challenging feelings are harder to hold.
00:01:52.910 --> 00:01:56.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: yet the same can be said of the enjoyable feelings.
00:01:58.160 --> 00:02:03.479 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Of course it is hard to hold pain and suffering for an extended period of time
00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:13.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the stress and anguish of holding the feelings of betrayal, loss, grief, and sadness wears everyone down who experiences them.
00:02:14.890 --> 00:02:20.049 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We would all much rather experience joy, fun and excitement.
00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:26.849 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and holding those feelings presents its own challenges as well.
00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:31.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For even though we think we are good at holding joy.
00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:39.129 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: there does come a point at which we unconsciously cannot allow it to continue.
00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:47.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Then we sabotage ourselves, or make bad judgments that cause us to move in the opposite direction.
00:02:48.540 --> 00:02:53.329 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There could even be a sense of relief that we no longer feel good.
00:02:54.060 --> 00:03:02.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is common to find ourselves waiting for something bad to happen when everything is actually fine.
00:03:03.200 --> 00:03:11.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Our society is full of sayings and idioms about how we should expect things to go bad when everything seems to be going so well.
00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:21.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and that programming has instilled in us all some limits to experiencing the happiness we so desire.
00:03:21.390 --> 00:03:32.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That isn't that we so desire. This is not even considering the fact that many of us have the feeling that we don't even deserve to feel good
00:03:33.450 --> 00:03:44.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for when we do a deep dive into our psychological makeup, we can find. There are a lot of experiences that have caused us to feel unworthy.
00:03:45.270 --> 00:03:53.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and that unworthiness comes out when we truly feel good about something in our lives.
00:03:54.050 --> 00:04:06.889 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The amount of good feelings we can allow in our lives, as well as the length that they can last, is directly proportional to the work we have done to unravel those unconscious beliefs.
00:04:07.230 --> 00:04:19.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Indeed, the level of success we all experience in business, in relationships and health is directly related to the amount of good feelings we can hold in our bodies.
00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:29.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The better we feel about ourselves, the more able we are to hold on to those wonderful feelings.
00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:32.539 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and the converse is true as well.
00:04:33.210 --> 00:04:42.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the more unworthy and the less self-esteem we have, the less able we are to hold those good feeling sensations.
00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:45.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So what are we to do?
00:04:46.860 --> 00:04:51.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This is why doing our deep inner work is so important.
00:04:52.310 --> 00:05:04.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The only way to counteract this phenomena is to dig in and process those experiences that we have held onto our whole lives.
00:05:05.210 --> 00:05:10.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Perhaps we seek the help of a professional therapist to support us in this endeavor.
00:05:11.140 --> 00:05:16.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or maybe we find a shaman or medicine facilitator who's skilled at working with people
00:05:17.290 --> 00:05:24.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for some of us. Maybe we just need to have some difficult conversations with our family and friends.
00:05:25.740 --> 00:05:31.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This work is not for the faint of heart, it requires bravery and effort.
00:05:32.610 --> 00:05:40.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and the rewards of that effort will be proportional to our willingness to be truly honest with ourselves.
00:05:41.820 --> 00:05:49.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for only when we truly feel good about ourselves can we allow ourselves to experience joy, happiness.
00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:52.769 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and pleasure for its own sake.
00:05:54.180 --> 00:05:57.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So how good are you at holding these good feelings in your body?
00:05:58.030 --> 00:06:05.339 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What experiences do you need to process and let go of to hold even more wonderful sensations in your life.
00:06:07.140 --> 00:06:12.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So the the germ or the kernel of this
00:06:12.780 --> 00:06:17.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: idea I got from the book, The Big Leap, by gay Hendrix
00:06:20.140 --> 00:06:22.959 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and it's been a while since I've read the book.
00:06:23.400 --> 00:06:26.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: but but the idea behind it of how
00:06:27.220 --> 00:06:37.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: holding on to good feelings is actually challenging, for many of us has always sort of stuck with me. And as I work with people.
00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:42.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and as I experience people, I see that
00:06:42.860 --> 00:06:52.279 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a lot of people have actually a very hard time feeling good when they've been feeling crappy for so much of their life.
00:06:55.380 --> 00:07:02.449 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and and I even reflect this myself. I mean I'm the pot calling the kettle black like I can have a hard time
00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:06.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: holding on to those good feelings without
00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:12.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: doing something that causes me to feel like I shouldn't have done that. That was silly. That was stupid.
00:07:13.700 --> 00:07:21.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We all do, and I guess I I just I wrote this blog post because I just wanted to
00:07:21.950 --> 00:07:28.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: remind people and to highlight, and and to really get into the fact that
00:07:31.320 --> 00:07:34.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: it can be hard to feel good.
00:07:37.930 --> 00:07:39.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that's normal.
00:07:40.280 --> 00:07:41.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's common.
00:07:43.260 --> 00:07:47.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And when we want to shift and change that in our life.
00:07:48.710 --> 00:07:52.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that's when we really gotta dig in and do our deep work.
00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:59.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's when we can really dive into.
00:07:59.110 --> 00:08:06.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Why don't we feel good about ourselves sometimes? We don't even want to admit that we don't feel good about ourselves.
00:08:07.510 --> 00:08:10.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So sometimes it's just coming to that recognition.
00:08:11.990 --> 00:08:17.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So at least, if we can be truly, deeply honest with ourselves.
00:08:17.300 --> 00:08:19.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: then we can begin the path of healing.
00:08:19.790 --> 00:08:25.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: then we can step on that path of like. Okay.
00:08:25.130 --> 00:08:29.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm gonna feel worse before I feel better. But once I've processed these
00:08:30.350 --> 00:08:35.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: challenging emotions and feelings, then we have more space.
00:08:36.100 --> 00:08:42.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and then we can actually do a bit more and feel better.
00:08:45.230 --> 00:08:50.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So I guess I just relate this one to
00:08:50.940 --> 00:08:54.139 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to to pose a question to all of you who are listening.
00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:58.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and to maybe, if you're open to this exercise for the next week.
00:09:00.210 --> 00:09:05.329 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like, just see like, how often do you feel good for no reason at all.
00:09:06.310 --> 00:09:11.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and if something happens and you're in a great feeling state, how long can you hold on to it?
00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:20.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is it a minute, 5 min, 10 min, a half hour, an hour a day.
00:09:21.810 --> 00:09:23.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: 2, 3 days a week.
00:09:24.910 --> 00:09:29.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How long can you feel good
00:09:30.650 --> 00:09:36.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and just enjoy that sensation for no reason at all. You don't have to earn it.
00:09:37.310 --> 00:09:43.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Just be it so. That's my blog post for this week.
00:09:43.680 --> 00:09:49.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The title, again is when we truly feel good about ourselves we can hold even more joy.
00:09:49.560 --> 00:09:59.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And of course you can always find my blog post@talkradio.nyc slash, blog, or on my personal branded website, the conscious consultant
00:09:59.570 --> 00:10:09.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: dot com all right. It is now my pleasure to welcome to the show author, astrologer, Dean, executive director.
00:10:09.740 --> 00:10:11.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Dr. Kathy Coleman.
00:10:12.090 --> 00:10:30.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Kathy was Ralph Metzner's wife. For 31 years she worked at the California Institute of Integral Studies, Ciis as director of student services and later Dean of students. When Ralph was academic, Dean and professor there.
00:10:30.460 --> 00:10:49.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Kathy later worked as Executive Director of Earthrise Retreat Center at the Institute of Noetic Sciences as President of Kepler College of Astrological Arts and Sciences, and with Ciis's Center for Psychedelic Assisted Therapies and research.
00:10:49.850 --> 00:10:58.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: She was co-founder with Ralph Metzner and is the current board member of the Green Earth Foundation.
00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:25.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and she is also a professional consulting astrologer and her latest book I just received. It's here Ralph Metzner, explorer of consciousness. The life and legacy of a psychedelic pioneer reveals the vast impact of Metzner's healing therapies and wisdom on colleagues, students, clients and the fields in which he worked. Welcome to the conscious consultant hour. Kathy.
00:11:26.060 --> 00:11:27.350 Cathy Coleman: Thank you. Sam.
00:11:28.160 --> 00:11:36.759 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's a pleasure to have you thank you for taking the time. So I'm I'm curious you were married to him for a long time. How did you meet Ralph.
00:11:38.640 --> 00:11:39.275 Cathy Coleman: Well,
00:11:40.040 --> 00:11:47.989 Cathy Coleman: I 1st met him as a student at I was a student at California Institute of Integral Studies, which I'll refer to as Cis.
00:11:49.230 --> 00:11:50.015 Cathy Coleman: And
00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:56.860 Cathy Coleman: In my essay in the book I wrote that I have these 4 different
00:11:58.170 --> 00:12:06.199 Cathy Coleman: connections with him. So the 1st was as his student. So I came to the school in 1981, and
00:12:06.460 --> 00:12:10.289 Cathy Coleman: he it was a very, it was very small event. It was 171 students and.
00:12:10.290 --> 00:12:10.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Why?
00:12:10.780 --> 00:12:13.590 Cathy Coleman: Came in, and so he taught.
00:12:13.790 --> 00:12:21.400 Cathy Coleman: as most professors did, quite a few different things, and Ralph has a wide reach. In his ability to teach, so
00:12:21.910 --> 00:12:23.459 Cathy Coleman: I don't know. I had. Maybe
00:12:23.890 --> 00:12:35.510 Cathy Coleman: I don't know. Maybe a couple of classes before I then was hired on as the director of admissions and financial aid there and then I kind of quickly
00:12:37.130 --> 00:12:46.609 Cathy Coleman: rose through the ranks and became the director of student services, which kind of meant that I was head of all the non academic aspects of the school.
00:12:47.710 --> 00:12:48.235 Cathy Coleman: And
00:12:49.010 --> 00:12:59.832 Cathy Coleman: and then Ralph was at the time the academic Dean. So then I had this overlap with him as not only my Professor, because I was still finishing my graduate studies, and then
00:13:00.390 --> 00:13:03.829 Cathy Coleman: then I was also kind of working side by side with him
00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:18.010 Cathy Coleman: on academic issues. And I mean, we had staff meetings every week, and we were in staff meetings, and it was a pretty small school then, and that, and at that early stage of the eighties there were only 9 of us on the staff. So anyway,
00:13:18.510 --> 00:13:19.520 Cathy Coleman: a.
00:13:20.020 --> 00:13:25.525 Cathy Coleman: So I I had that connection for about 4 years.
00:13:26.700 --> 00:13:29.800 Cathy Coleman: And then one day Ralph
00:13:29.970 --> 00:13:38.570 Cathy Coleman: asked me out for lunch, which I he basically never stopped to ask, stopped to go for lunch with anybody, because he was always so hardworking and.
00:13:38.570 --> 00:13:38.925 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And
00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:44.459 Cathy Coleman: So on our way back to school he he said, well, I
00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:47.309 Cathy Coleman: I've always wanted to be in a relationship with you.
00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:57.379 Cathy Coleman: I'd like to do this, and he was turning 50, and he was going on a vision quest. And I guess he'd been thinking about it for a long time. So
00:13:57.830 --> 00:14:01.499 Cathy Coleman: in some ways I've always felt like it was a little bit like.
00:14:02.090 --> 00:14:07.347 Cathy Coleman: you know, a a sudden arranged marriage. But, on the other hand, we knew each other really well.
00:14:08.392 --> 00:14:12.890 Cathy Coleman: From working together. And and you know.
00:14:13.170 --> 00:14:15.440 Cathy Coleman: and I knew him as a professor. So
00:14:16.520 --> 00:14:21.820 Cathy Coleman: yeah, it wasn't like somebody. It wasn't like brand new. But anyway, that's that's how it all began.
00:14:21.820 --> 00:14:23.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow, wow!
00:14:23.590 --> 00:14:29.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So and and and just to give our audience a little perspective, do you know how big Cias is? Now.
00:14:29.170 --> 00:14:37.730 Cathy Coleman: Yeah, it's about 1,500 and I mean, it's not a huge school, but it's really grown a lot. It's grown in programs. I mean.
00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:39.300 Cathy Coleman: you know, when I 1st
00:14:39.530 --> 00:14:44.880 Cathy Coleman: came there there was only about 6 programs, and now there's probably I don't know 15 or.
00:14:45.160 --> 00:14:46.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:14:46.350 --> 00:14:49.250 Cathy Coleman: And it's it's it's yeah, it's much
00:14:49.510 --> 00:14:52.150 Cathy Coleman: and many, many staff. I don't know. There's probably a
00:14:52.630 --> 00:14:57.000 Cathy Coleman: I don't know. I don't know how many staff 100, I mean, but there's a lot, you know. It's grown a lot.
00:14:57.290 --> 00:15:06.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah. And it's grown in reputation as well. It's really one of the premier educational organizations on the West Coast when it comes to
00:15:07.130 --> 00:15:11.769 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: all kinds of things, spirituality and psychedelics, and all kinds of stuff like that.
00:15:12.050 --> 00:15:12.640 Cathy Coleman: Right.
00:15:14.180 --> 00:15:19.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and just one more question before we go to break. For those who might not
00:15:19.220 --> 00:15:27.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: have a sense of who Ralph Metzner was. He's really a
00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:32.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a pioneer. He's like one of the people who really
00:15:32.620 --> 00:15:45.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: brought the psychedelic movement, I guess. Forward with people like Sasha Shulgin. What were some of Ralph's like like just big, big accomplishments like, why
00:15:46.100 --> 00:15:54.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like, why write a book about him? I know he was your husband. But but I mean? What was it that he did that really had so much impact.
00:15:55.980 --> 00:15:59.239 Cathy Coleman: Well, just going back to the
00:15:59.470 --> 00:16:04.879 Cathy Coleman: origin I mean. He was so. He was European. He was born in Berlin in 1936,
00:16:04.990 --> 00:16:11.801 Cathy Coleman: and then, because of the war, ended up in Scotland, going to a boarding school, Gordonstown boarding school.
00:16:12.500 --> 00:16:13.869 Cathy Coleman: which is
00:16:14.380 --> 00:16:24.170 Cathy Coleman: where Prince Charles went. It was kind of famous and then he went to Oxford, and then he came to Harvard. So I kind of paint that picture because
00:16:24.310 --> 00:16:29.060 Cathy Coleman: he had a lot of history before getting to Harvard, but he came as a graduate student student.
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:40.659 Cathy Coleman: and then Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert Romdas were professors, his professors, then grad school professors, and then
00:16:40.870 --> 00:16:53.320 Cathy Coleman: they discovered Lsd. I mean, they didn't discover it, but they discovered the use of it of Lsd and Psilocybin and started all of these psychedelic experiments
00:16:53.610 --> 00:16:57.790 Cathy Coleman: in about 1962, and
00:16:57.890 --> 00:17:02.689 Cathy Coleman: Ralph was just finishing his graduate studies. And so he was there.
00:17:02.800 --> 00:17:03.814 Cathy Coleman: Primary.
00:17:05.030 --> 00:17:21.880 Cathy Coleman: you know, he was just a major player in those all those early years of experiments. And then Aldous Huxley suggested to them that they write a write the book, the psychedelic experience based on the Tibetan Book of the dead. And so then he wrote
00:17:22.040 --> 00:17:28.089 Cathy Coleman: that book with Larry and Alpert. And so that's really his 1st
00:17:28.300 --> 00:17:32.960 Cathy Coleman: claim to fame that book, you know. I think hundreds of thousands of people have.
00:17:33.370 --> 00:17:33.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:17:33.810 --> 00:17:40.610 Cathy Coleman: Read that book. It's so so, so there's that. And then then that was.
00:17:40.820 --> 00:17:45.960 Cathy Coleman: you know, that sort of seeded his lifelong interest in.
00:17:48.040 --> 00:17:56.110 Cathy Coleman: you know, working with psychedelics and psychology. So he he had got the Phd. From Harvard in psychology, and he was a psychotherapist.
00:17:56.580 --> 00:17:59.449 Cathy Coleman: And then he also.
00:17:59.710 --> 00:18:06.680 Cathy Coleman: you know, loved writing that might have been his. That might have been his favorite thing to do. He wrote 24 books when he was
00:18:06.970 --> 00:18:16.774 Cathy Coleman: I mean the psychedelic experience being the 1st one. And then so he's well known as an author. Some psychedelic books,
00:18:17.530 --> 00:18:28.200 Cathy Coleman: one on European mythology, one on green psychology. So he's kind of a pioneer also in ecopsychology, and
00:18:28.820 --> 00:18:40.010 Cathy Coleman: which he preferred to call green psychology. And then one of his early books was called maps of consciousness. So he wrote about the I Ching the Tarot
00:18:40.890 --> 00:18:46.000 Cathy Coleman: actualism, which is Agni Yoga, which is a light light work, meditation, and
00:18:47.230 --> 00:18:49.209 Cathy Coleman: So we had many different
00:18:50.980 --> 00:19:00.799 Cathy Coleman: areas. And one of the things that people kind of marvel about him is because he had such vast knowledge of Eastern and Western systems of thought and
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:05.149 Cathy Coleman: history and mythology and
00:19:05.570 --> 00:19:12.779 Cathy Coleman: psychedelics and astrology. All these things he was able to weave all of this into everything he did.
00:19:13.030 --> 00:19:13.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No.
00:19:13.570 --> 00:19:20.600 Cathy Coleman: Made. It really made everything very rich. You know his teachings, his lectures, his his research work.
00:19:20.890 --> 00:19:21.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I know.
00:19:22.030 --> 00:19:31.729 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: because he had such a good handle on so many different disciplines, and and he could also, like, bring it in together and interrelate them.
00:19:32.030 --> 00:19:44.629 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right. Wonderful. We got to take our 1st break when we come back. Let's talk about the book a bit more, and about Ralph, and and sort of what the book reveals about Ralph. Maybe that most people don't know. Okay.
00:19:45.230 --> 00:20:10.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: all right. Thank you so much. Dr. Coleman. All right, everyone. Please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We do this every Thursday 12 noon to one Pm. Eastern time right here on talkradio, Dot, Nyc. And all over social media. And we're speaking this hour with Dr. Kathy Coleman, author of the book, Ralph Metzner, explorer of consciousness. And we'll be right back after these messages.
00:21:57.650 --> 00:22:08.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back to the conscious, consultant hour awakening humanity. We're speaking this hour with Dr. Kathy Coleman, author of the book, Ralph Metzner, explorer of consciousness
00:22:09.120 --> 00:22:14.919 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: just out of curiosity. Why? Why explorer of consciousness? Why is that the subtitle of the book.
00:22:18.740 --> 00:22:23.989 Cathy Coleman: Well, the that was the that was the title that the publishers chose.
00:22:24.450 --> 00:22:32.660 Cathy Coleman: When I but it's similar to what I submitted to them, which was called intrepid explorer, and it was hard to actually.
00:22:32.840 --> 00:22:37.160 Cathy Coleman: because Ralph has so many interests. It was hard to
00:22:37.370 --> 00:22:40.499 Cathy Coleman: come up with a concise title that.
00:22:40.760 --> 00:22:41.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Of capital.
00:22:41.220 --> 00:22:43.304 Cathy Coleman: At all, and
00:22:44.440 --> 00:23:06.659 Cathy Coleman: I came up with the title, Intrepid Explorer, just because he was kind of a fearless explorer of many different things, but then I think they wanted the title. I think they wanted the word psychedelic to be in the title. That's why the subtitle is the life and legacy of a psychedelic pioneer. That's not what I submitted to them, but it was I was fine. I could understand that. So.
00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:24.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, what was Ralph's main motivation in all of these things? He was exploring, as you mentioned, like, everything from from iching to astrology to psychedelics. What was it that really drove him to dig so deep into these topics?
00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:34.769 Cathy Coleman: Yeah, I'll answer that by partly looping back to your your question. Before which? Why? Why.
00:23:34.910 --> 00:23:50.100 Cathy Coleman: you know, explorer of consciousness. So that really was. The main thing that he he was always after was when he worked with people was, you know, expanding their awareness, and even even his own practice at home, I mean
00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:56.563 Cathy Coleman: he had. He had notes around the house, you know, kind of on the stuck on the mirror, etc. Like
00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:05.460 Cathy Coleman: intention plus awareness, you know.
00:24:05.870 --> 00:24:06.780 Cathy Coleman: Equals.
00:24:08.300 --> 00:24:16.270 Cathy Coleman: Oh, geez! I'm here, I'm blocking what but intention and awareness. That's it. Well, intention and
00:24:16.510 --> 00:24:20.620 Cathy Coleman: jeez let me. I'm I'm messing this up. But let me let me get it. Here.
00:24:20.620 --> 00:24:27.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, if you still have the post-it note. That's wonderful, is the.
00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:32.680 Cathy Coleman: Geez! I can't remember. I can't believe I forgot that. But yes, in fact, I have.
00:24:32.810 --> 00:24:43.430 Cathy Coleman: He was always one to write post-it notes about a lot of things notes to himself, notes of what he was doing. You know. So this was intention.
00:24:43.600 --> 00:24:55.430 Cathy Coleman: attention equals awareness. So being intentional, giving it attention, and then being more aware. And so anyway.
00:24:55.610 --> 00:25:00.999 Cathy Coleman: And so whatever he did was he was working with us a therapy with a therapy client or
00:25:01.340 --> 00:25:06.127 Cathy Coleman: doing group work psychedelics, his own awareness.
00:25:06.950 --> 00:25:27.560 Cathy Coleman: even my, even with me he was always. This sticks in my mind like if I would be in a, you know, difficult mood, or have difficulty with something. You know, he would just say, you're responsible for your own consciousness, you know, which is like putting it back on me, like, you know. Okay, okay, yes, I am. You know I am. So
00:25:28.310 --> 00:25:32.740 Cathy Coleman: that's really what he was always about was was that that
00:25:33.100 --> 00:25:36.610 Cathy Coleman: expansion of the mind, I guess you know, but for the good.
00:25:36.610 --> 00:25:41.669 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So would you say that at his heart he was a healer
00:25:42.274 --> 00:25:50.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and that he was exploring all these different paths to help us heal our consciousness or hear heal our
00:25:50.890 --> 00:25:52.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: psychology. I guess.
00:25:53.310 --> 00:25:58.672 Cathy Coleman: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean he was. He was. He was always after.
00:25:59.810 --> 00:26:03.249 Cathy Coleman: He would do a lot of work with people around there, you know.
00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:08.130 Cathy Coleman: ancestors and their, you know, their sort of baggage and their
00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:17.839 Cathy Coleman: shadows and their difficulties, and at the same time, you know, projected into the future. I mean, he was really always helping people
00:26:18.250 --> 00:26:22.590 Cathy Coleman: live a better life, you know, in a way, I mean by by greater awareness.
00:26:22.590 --> 00:26:30.719 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I'm curious. There were a lot of people around Timothy Leary and Alpert around that time in Harvard.
00:26:31.263 --> 00:26:45.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What was what was it about his experience with psychedelics that made him such an advocate for it. What was it that he experienced, or he felt about these powerful substances that he felt
00:26:45.910 --> 00:26:48.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: was something really worth focusing on.
00:26:50.070 --> 00:26:55.439 Cathy Coleman: Well, he described that the 1st to me, you know just in person, that that the 1st time he
00:26:56.770 --> 00:26:59.699 Cathy Coleman: had a psychedelic experience, that it just
00:27:00.520 --> 00:27:07.050 Cathy Coleman: kind of blew his mind, so to speak. You know we hear that, but but it really shifted his
00:27:08.020 --> 00:27:11.889 Cathy Coleman: worldview, and I think he had come from, you know.
00:27:12.990 --> 00:27:19.294 Cathy Coleman: World War 2, living in Berlin for the 1st 9 years of his life, and then having a pretty difficult
00:27:20.170 --> 00:27:40.839 Cathy Coleman: difficult teenage years. His parents were. You know, they were split because the war, his mother was Scottish. His father was German. They, the mother, went to Scotland after the war with the 3 sons. Then he went to boarding school. He was not with his family. You know, really, except on breaks all of his teenage years, and
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:44.669 Cathy Coleman: some of it, I mean. His father was a was a
00:27:45.490 --> 00:27:53.710 Cathy Coleman: well-to-do businessman before the war, but lost everything, and so, you know, they then they experienced poverty, great poverty. And so
00:27:54.260 --> 00:27:59.939 Cathy Coleman: he'd come from this kind of dark, terrible, you know, difficult
00:28:00.290 --> 00:28:06.300 Cathy Coleman: childhood in a way, even though he had great parents. Who were. But and
00:28:06.810 --> 00:28:11.509 Cathy Coleman: I think just getting getting to the to the United States and
00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:20.859 Cathy Coleman: being in and having this experience just really opened him wide, and that potential for everyone.
00:28:21.940 --> 00:28:26.972 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And when you met him I mean he was already deep into this.
00:28:27.580 --> 00:28:39.899 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: was there anything about the psychedelic work that in the beginning you were nervous about, or you were a little put off by, or were you just open and ready for it when when it was introduced to you?
00:28:41.500 --> 00:28:49.270 Cathy Coleman: That's a really good question for me, because I'm just a I was just a girl from Missouri, from a small town in Missouri.
00:28:50.020 --> 00:28:57.199 Cathy Coleman: born in the fifties. You know, my parents were teetotalers, I mean, it's a pretty
00:28:57.330 --> 00:29:02.093 Cathy Coleman: but very open in a certain other way. And
00:29:03.070 --> 00:29:12.420 Cathy Coleman: I didn't know anything about psychedelics before I moved to California before I moved, came to graduate school here. But in the early eighties
00:29:12.670 --> 00:29:14.720 Cathy Coleman: mdma was legal.
00:29:15.550 --> 00:29:17.760 Cathy Coleman: And so, and
00:29:18.060 --> 00:29:29.649 Cathy Coleman: when I got to the school there was a lot of I mean, all students were practically doing mdma, and it was just open. It was just easy and thing to do legal, and so
00:29:30.450 --> 00:29:39.650 Cathy Coleman: I guess, entering into the scene at that time there wasn't any fear until you know that shut down, and I mean
00:29:39.980 --> 00:29:48.270 Cathy Coleman: Lsd. Wasn't legal then, but because we were kind of focused on Mdma. It just.
00:29:48.840 --> 00:29:53.920 Cathy Coleman: And the school, too. I mean, the school made a big, a huge difference, because
00:29:54.090 --> 00:30:02.280 Cathy Coleman: it was a school of all the professors and staff and students were all very open-minded.
00:30:02.908 --> 00:30:06.819 Cathy Coleman: People, you know, explorers of consciousness. Really. So
00:30:07.110 --> 00:30:09.670 Cathy Coleman: being in that environment is just.
00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:13.849 Cathy Coleman: you know, it's amazing. I mean, it's really a different.
00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:29.380 Cathy Coleman: really different. So no, I didn't have any fear, and I'm not a very fearful person either. I guess I was just curious and open, and I highly respected him because he's not a he's not. Ralph was never reckless, you know. He's very serious, and.
00:30:29.380 --> 00:30:29.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:30:29.910 --> 00:30:33.960 Cathy Coleman: Very careful and
00:30:35.530 --> 00:30:37.980 Cathy Coleman: but you know he had to be very
00:30:38.610 --> 00:30:41.239 Cathy Coleman: underground very careful when he was.
00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:45.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right right right. Once things were deemed illegal. Then.
00:30:45.310 --> 00:30:45.830 Cathy Coleman: Right.
00:30:45.830 --> 00:31:07.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The whole industry went underground and went very careful, all right. So we got to take another break when we come back. Let's let's talk about. Maybe some of the different contributions of the book. So the book is really isn't fully written by you. There's a whole bunch of people who contributed to this book. So maybe let's touch upon some of those contributions. Okay.
00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:08.310 Cathy Coleman: Okay.
00:31:08.380 --> 00:31:26.439 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful, Dr. Coleman. Thank you. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We're speaking this hour with Dr. Kathy Coleman, author of the book, Ralph Metzner, explorer of consciousness, the life and legacy of a psychedelic pioneer. And we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:33:02.772 --> 00:33:11.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Dr. Coleman, I mean you kind of this book, Ralph Metzner, explorer of consciousness. It's really a a.
00:33:12.080 --> 00:33:13.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a.
00:33:14.190 --> 00:33:32.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a huge, I guess anthology from many different people writing about, Ralph, that you're really sort of. You have your own contribution, but you also collected a tremendous number of of essays from such famous people as Stanislav Groff.
00:33:32.070 --> 00:33:52.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Dennis Mckenna, Rick Doblin, of course the head of maps. And and I also see his kids. Your children also contributed something. I'm wondering, just maybe, what are one or 2 of like the top contributions that people gave that that you
00:33:52.970 --> 00:33:55.279 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that that means something special to you.
00:33:56.970 --> 00:33:57.900 Cathy Coleman: Hmm!
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:02.779 Cathy Coleman: There are many and it might be
00:34:03.371 --> 00:34:07.729 Cathy Coleman: good to mention that. How this, how the how I got those contributions, because.
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:17.480 Cathy Coleman: We have a the Green Earth Foundation has a newsletter, and I just put it out in the Newsletter to see if anybody was interested in contributing, and about 80 people
00:34:17.739 --> 00:34:20.260 Cathy Coleman: came forth and said they wanted to contribute.
00:34:21.050 --> 00:34:29.549 Cathy Coleman: probably got maybe 70 essays from those 80 or so. And then and then I I thought about who else should be in it? So people like
00:34:29.830 --> 00:34:43.970 Cathy Coleman: Rick and Stan, and some of those that you mentioned I contacted them myself to see if they wanted to write, because I knew they were close to Ralph. So anyway, well, even starting with Stan's contribution.
00:34:45.469 --> 00:34:48.389 Cathy Coleman: It's very, you know it's very interesting. I mean
00:34:49.810 --> 00:35:01.199 Cathy Coleman: no coming into Ralph's life. Only when he was 50 I didn't, you know. I I continued to uncover like the past and put the pieces together. But there's a story in there about how
00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:04.779 Cathy Coleman: how a synchronistic story about how
00:35:05.010 --> 00:35:07.379 Cathy Coleman: Stan met Ralph, you know, and he was.
00:35:08.430 --> 00:35:19.099 Cathy Coleman: Out of money and needed a ride to some place, and the person he rode who gave him a ride had to stop at Millbrook, New York, which was the Commune where
00:35:19.230 --> 00:35:21.309 Cathy Coleman: Larry Alpert and
00:35:21.550 --> 00:35:32.550 Cathy Coleman: and from Das were living along with other people, and so they stopped there and then. That's when he met Larry and Ralph, and they gave him a copy of
00:35:32.690 --> 00:35:43.679 Cathy Coleman: the book, the Psychedelic Experience. So anyway, that's just but touching, I mean, they're all touching, really. And what's so interesting is.
00:35:43.940 --> 00:35:49.209 Cathy Coleman: you know, so many, I mean, Ralph had these many different parts of himself, and so
00:35:49.780 --> 00:35:57.659 Cathy Coleman: all these different writers in the book have written about very different things. You know, there's people who wrote about
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:00.730 Cathy Coleman: the connecting with him around the green Psychology.
00:36:00.940 --> 00:36:01.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Part of us.
00:36:01.410 --> 00:36:12.970 Cathy Coleman: Life, or maybe the mythological party or part of his life. There's a contribution there from a man who just knew him from speaking at a conference in
00:36:13.160 --> 00:36:18.320 Cathy Coleman: at that Ralph programmed in Killarney, Ireland, and
00:36:19.115 --> 00:36:21.644 Cathy Coleman: this man's name is Alistair
00:36:22.590 --> 00:36:30.779 Cathy Coleman: Macintosh, and he so he researched kind of Ralph's roots, his Scottish roots and.
00:36:30.780 --> 00:36:31.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, wow!
00:36:31.450 --> 00:36:37.290 Cathy Coleman: He knew about his Scottish roots. And then how you know he experienced him
00:36:37.700 --> 00:36:42.366 Cathy Coleman: today. And that's a very clever, interesting piece.
00:36:43.220 --> 00:36:58.870 Cathy Coleman: you've Durkin, a German man who Ralph knew and worked with for a while quite a while, and was also on the Green Earth Foundation Board. For a while he wrote a really wonderful piece about just all the all these different aspects of Ralph.
00:36:58.980 --> 00:37:04.190 Cathy Coleman: you know, as Alpha's healer, you know.
00:37:05.190 --> 00:37:14.280 Cathy Coleman: Shaman, scholar, Mentor, and and even friend, you know.
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:15.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So he kind of.
00:37:15.080 --> 00:37:22.866 Cathy Coleman: Cover this whole vast aspect of Ralph that he that he experienced, and that's really beautiful.
00:37:23.770 --> 00:37:24.350 Cathy Coleman: Good luck!
00:37:24.540 --> 00:37:47.950 Cathy Coleman: The contribution from Michael Flanagan, who was Ralph's assistant at Cis for many years, and he's quite a scholar himself, and the title of his contribution is Ralph's animation of the Academy, which really is what Ralph did at Cis. He really, he brought so many new ideas and new programs and
00:37:48.220 --> 00:37:57.829 Cathy Coleman: and people working on the cutting edge of different things, and to Cis, and really changed it. So that contribution is
00:37:57.940 --> 00:38:06.129 Cathy Coleman: is special. But really there's nothing. There's not one. And there's 27 essays that didn't make it into the book just because of
00:38:07.615 --> 00:38:08.639 Cathy Coleman: space.
00:38:09.140 --> 00:38:16.920 Cathy Coleman: They're posted on the Green Earth foundation website, green earth, greenearthfoundation.org and
00:38:17.605 --> 00:38:23.069 Cathy Coleman: so all these essays are pretty pithy, and you know, interesting, really.
00:38:23.070 --> 00:38:27.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and I mean, there's so many in here. How how many essays are there in here?
00:38:27.170 --> 00:38:29.300 Cathy Coleman: 50 are in the book. 60 essays.
00:38:29.300 --> 00:38:36.489 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: 60. Wow! And so how did you organize this like? That's a lot of information to organize.
00:38:37.740 --> 00:38:42.600 Cathy Coleman: Well, I had an organized a
00:38:43.460 --> 00:38:47.919 Cathy Coleman: similar to this, but then the editors at inner traditions
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:55.572 Cathy Coleman: slightly tweak that, and I like their tweaking even better. But I kind of organize it by
00:38:56.020 --> 00:38:58.940 Cathy Coleman: you know, academic, scholarly.
00:39:01.690 --> 00:39:15.688 Cathy Coleman: you know, colleagues, and then I mean early years, the early years. There's an essay by his brother, his younger brother, writing about it's called the Unusual second son, who was Ralph and
00:39:16.450 --> 00:39:22.157 Cathy Coleman: Then artist, because Ralph was big on
00:39:23.010 --> 00:39:28.500 Cathy Coleman: kind of fostering people's artistic endeavors, and he also.
00:39:28.830 --> 00:39:50.740 Cathy Coleman: Ralph was pretty artistic himself. He took a piano, or he learned it as a child, but then he retook it up in when he was 60 years old, and and wrote some songs and did a couple of albums. And so he was pretty creative himself. So there was a creative section. And
00:39:51.410 --> 00:40:02.870 Cathy Coleman: then but one thing I didn't have in the original list. I had these people in other categories was, there's actually a section on death and dying here. It's.
00:40:02.870 --> 00:40:03.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Called.
00:40:03.776 --> 00:40:11.740 Cathy Coleman: Death conscious, dying and the afterlife because Ralph was very big on using
00:40:12.130 --> 00:40:17.310 Cathy Coleman: consciousness and psychedelics to prepare for death and.
00:40:17.310 --> 00:40:18.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, and.
00:40:18.390 --> 00:40:27.430 Cathy Coleman: And to, you know, become comfortable with death. And and of course, that's the psychedelic experiences based on that and based on the.
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:36.440 Cathy Coleman: you know an interpretation of this Tibetan book of the dead. And so, anyway, there's about 5 essays in that section.
00:40:37.720 --> 00:40:42.750 Cathy Coleman: That's I thought that was, yeah, that was really great that that happened. And.
00:40:42.980 --> 00:40:47.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And just out of curiosity did it help him? Towards the end of his life.
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:57.619 Cathy Coleman: Yes, yes, he really. He really died a very conscious, peaceful death. You know he had a disease. He knew he was going to die. He died
00:40:57.940 --> 00:41:02.640 Cathy Coleman: sooner than you know. The medical people had told him he probably would, but.
00:41:02.640 --> 00:41:03.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:41:03.220 --> 00:41:04.120 Cathy Coleman: Is very.
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:08.669 Cathy Coleman: He sort of taken care of all of his business, and
00:41:08.920 --> 00:41:14.940 Cathy Coleman: and had a very good attitude about it. He didn't want to die, but he but he was very peaceful about
00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:15.290 Cathy Coleman: something.
00:41:15.290 --> 00:41:16.019 Cathy Coleman: It and.
00:41:17.390 --> 00:41:20.769 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and what do you hope people
00:41:20.900 --> 00:41:25.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: get from this book, I mean, besides, kind of getting to know Ralph better.
00:41:25.870 --> 00:41:32.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But what do you hope someone reading through all these essays? What do you hope that they'll take from this.
00:41:33.590 --> 00:41:38.929 Cathy Coleman: That's a really good question. I but I think it would be inspiration
00:41:39.040 --> 00:41:46.090 Cathy Coleman: to, you know. Inspiration to live your, you know, to live your best life, you know, and I think
00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:49.789 Cathy Coleman: what's inspiring about it is there's so many different
00:41:50.250 --> 00:42:03.550 Cathy Coleman: parts of it, and there's and there's simple things like one story I love in. There was Ralph, just there's a woman, an cellist, Glen Denning, who's an author who lives in Bolivia. She put out a newsletter.
00:42:04.270 --> 00:42:12.070 Cathy Coleman: He responded to it. They ended up having a pen PAL relationship and and
00:42:12.690 --> 00:42:20.319 Cathy Coleman: he would send her teas from America. She would send him coca candies from.
00:42:20.440 --> 00:42:22.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Bolivia.
00:42:22.580 --> 00:42:23.260 Cathy Coleman: And
00:42:23.810 --> 00:42:30.900 Cathy Coleman: I mean, I never knew this. I never even knew this until I read that story. But it's a sweet story about just.
00:42:31.020 --> 00:42:35.199 Cathy Coleman: you know, in our everyday life. These
00:42:35.550 --> 00:42:39.570 Cathy Coleman: possibilities enter our into our worlds, and.
00:42:39.570 --> 00:42:40.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know we can.
00:42:40.110 --> 00:42:48.350 Cathy Coleman: And take advantage of them and make something of them, and make connections and and and
00:42:49.300 --> 00:42:53.030 Cathy Coleman: also just like I was thinking a lot about your
00:42:53.490 --> 00:43:02.240 Cathy Coleman: your introduction. You know your blog and and the message in that, and thinking how how powerful the mind is. I mean our mind.
00:43:02.240 --> 00:43:02.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You're so.
00:43:02.670 --> 00:43:03.670 Cathy Coleman: Powerful.
00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:12.409 Cathy Coleman: and they can. They can create a lot of negativity in our lives. But they can create a lot of positive energy and a lot of forward motion. And so
00:43:12.650 --> 00:43:18.789 Cathy Coleman: that's what I think you know would be something would be a big takeaway. Was is just to
00:43:19.100 --> 00:43:29.069 Cathy Coleman: be comfortable in expressing who you are, who you are and your own potential, and how you, you know, hold the world and interact with the world, and.
00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:31.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful, wonderful
00:43:33.180 --> 00:43:43.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So you mentioned how like you didn't know something about him, and that you learned from that particular essay. Was there anything in collecting these stories and reading them
00:43:43.610 --> 00:43:51.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that surprised you, that you didn't know about him. That just kind of made you go. Oh, really.
00:43:55.950 --> 00:44:00.240 Cathy Coleman: Like not really nothing big.
00:44:00.670 --> 00:44:02.859 Cathy Coleman: There's small things like that, or like.
00:44:02.860 --> 00:44:03.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:44:04.660 --> 00:44:17.456 Cathy Coleman: like Delee. Lance has a a an essay in here. Delee was his was a fellow graduate student in his class at Harvard, and she's a
00:44:18.110 --> 00:44:23.596 Cathy Coleman: psychotherapist, and she's been a professor at Cis, and so
00:44:24.540 --> 00:44:27.540 Cathy Coleman: So she wrote this essay, and
00:44:28.700 --> 00:44:33.179 Cathy Coleman: and in there she said she'd overheard this conversation that
00:44:33.500 --> 00:44:39.279 Cathy Coleman: the faculty were making in their program, and they they were saying, Oh.
00:44:39.510 --> 00:44:45.870 Cathy Coleman: Ralph Messner is the, you know, smartest graduate student in the class, and the other professor said.
00:44:46.460 --> 00:44:50.810 Cathy Coleman: No, Ralph is the smartest graduate student that's ever come through this program.
00:44:50.810 --> 00:44:51.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow!
00:44:51.590 --> 00:44:53.869 Cathy Coleman: It's like that kind of thing. Kind of
00:44:54.140 --> 00:44:56.530 Cathy Coleman: I go. Wow! That kind of blew my mind.
00:44:56.790 --> 00:44:57.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:44:57.240 --> 00:45:00.529 Cathy Coleman: Same time I knew he was really smart and.
00:45:00.530 --> 00:45:01.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: My.
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:02.640 Cathy Coleman: And he's just
00:45:02.780 --> 00:45:17.538 Cathy Coleman: he's got a you know, such a drive for knowledge. So, and I would say the one thing Ralph really included me so much in his life. All these people, almost all the people in the book I know personally, because he
00:45:18.875 --> 00:45:25.050 Cathy Coleman: you know just people. He worked with people he met along the way. His friends he
00:45:25.370 --> 00:45:29.099 Cathy Coleman: he just would draw me into the circle so.
00:45:29.100 --> 00:45:29.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:45:31.110 --> 00:45:36.510 Cathy Coleman: I mean with him dying. I realized how what a gift! What an incredible gift that was!
00:45:37.450 --> 00:45:51.420 Cathy Coleman: I still have relationships with all these people, which, of course, I tended and fostered as well. But but you know it's really a gift. So no, nothing, really. But then, you know, there's small things like that that.
00:45:51.420 --> 00:46:12.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Gotcha gotcha. Wonderful, wonderful. Okay. We've got one last break to take when we come back. Let's just talk about some of the other things like the Green Earth Foundation. What's that all about? And and maybe we'll touch upon some of the astrological stuff a little bit. Okay.
00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:29.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: wonderful. So everyone. Please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We've been speaking this hour with Dr. Kathy Coleman, author of the book, Ralph Metzner, explorer of consciousness, and we'll be right back to finish up our interview. Stay with us.
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:26.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Dr. Coleman. There are a few other things besides Ralph's lifelong interest in psychedelics that he was involved with, and that you involved with him, one of them being the Green Earth foundation. So you mentioned it before. What exactly is that foundation all about.
00:48:28.190 --> 00:48:32.159 Cathy Coleman: Well, basically, it was a publishing arm for Ralph's work.
00:48:32.380 --> 00:48:33.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow!
00:48:33.330 --> 00:48:40.279 Cathy Coleman: Now, in the early days we founded it in 1989, shortly after we got married, and you know
00:48:40.430 --> 00:48:47.689 Cathy Coleman: it's very I mean his name for it. Green Earth is really a lot of who he was about because he really did care about
00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:50.749 Cathy Coleman: You know, the planet.
00:48:51.460 --> 00:48:54.469 Cathy Coleman: He was very early on to, you know.
00:48:54.700 --> 00:48:58.339 Cathy Coleman: our problems with environment, global warming.
00:48:58.610 --> 00:48:59.313 Cathy Coleman: And
00:49:01.350 --> 00:49:07.810 Cathy Coleman: so he had a newsletter for many years, and he that he would just publish various things of
00:49:08.660 --> 00:49:17.190 Cathy Coleman: of interest about, you know, sort of psychology, related psychology, the planet consciousness, ecology.
00:49:17.670 --> 00:49:22.689 Cathy Coleman: Oh, and then, at some point, the Newsletter
00:49:23.040 --> 00:49:25.670 Cathy Coleman: kind of, you know, evolved into
00:49:27.210 --> 00:49:31.789 Cathy Coleman: just the, you know, going to the website and not publishing the the
00:49:32.010 --> 00:49:36.290 Cathy Coleman: well. And then, of course, just a newsletter. By
00:49:36.460 --> 00:49:42.027 Cathy Coleman: that he would send out to all of the people on his list rather than a paper copy. But
00:49:42.930 --> 00:49:48.619 Cathy Coleman: But also it just served as kind of a you know he had a board, and it it served as
00:49:48.750 --> 00:49:49.660 Cathy Coleman: as a
00:49:50.120 --> 00:50:02.589 Cathy Coleman: vehicle for his publications, and maybe one of the one of the major things that came out of it was his board were constantly trying to get him to actually write about his.
00:50:03.030 --> 00:50:13.789 Cathy Coleman: All of his knowledge about psychedelics all these years. So one of the last books he wrote was called was a book called Allies for Awakening and
00:50:14.040 --> 00:50:18.689 Cathy Coleman: Allies for awakening is about sort of everything he knew about
00:50:19.310 --> 00:50:22.900 Cathy Coleman: psychedelics from you know how to do.
00:50:23.350 --> 00:50:27.510 Cathy Coleman: You know, ceremonies and the work and dosages, and
00:50:27.770 --> 00:50:31.280 Cathy Coleman: all the pharmacology and etc. So
00:50:31.490 --> 00:50:36.610 Cathy Coleman: basically, everybody who reads that book loves that book. It is a great contribution to the field and
00:50:37.526 --> 00:50:42.270 Cathy Coleman: and and he would have never written that book if it hadn't been for his board.
00:50:42.751 --> 00:50:44.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Kind of pushing him towards it. Yeah.
00:50:44.930 --> 00:50:49.397 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to do it. I mean, I was there to witness the day he goes. Okay, you know.
00:50:50.192 --> 00:50:54.987 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful, wonderful! I have to check that one out
00:50:57.100 --> 00:51:07.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and I was just curious about Earthrise retreat, which was a part of the Institute for noetic sciences. It was started by Edgar Mitchell, right.
00:51:07.020 --> 00:51:16.809 Cathy Coleman: Right? Right? I mean, it was they actually sold the property in the the Institute called we call. I refer to Ims.
00:51:16.810 --> 00:51:17.880 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, yeah.
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:20.270 Cathy Coleman: They sold the property about
00:51:21.560 --> 00:51:30.559 Cathy Coleman: 3 or about 4 years ago. Maybe so. There's no longer a retreat center there. The Institute of Nordic sciences does still exist, and they still do research.
00:51:30.740 --> 00:51:35.019 Cathy Coleman: but just in a small office, and they have a cube and research staff and.
00:51:35.020 --> 00:52:00.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Gotcha gotcha, and and I mean it's a big part of your life, and was part of his life, this whole endeavor into astrology. What sort of brought this fascination or this desire front and center, and I have a very deep appreciation for it. We used to have a gentleman on our network. Monty Taylor, who was a Jungian astrologer, and he used to
00:52:00.290 --> 00:52:13.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: talk about astrology in such depth because you'd bring in the archetypes and the myths, and the ancient Greek myths it was based on, and it just made it so alive for me. What was it for Ralph and for yourself that
00:52:14.340 --> 00:52:16.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: brought astrology so alive for you.
00:52:20.240 --> 00:52:24.279 Cathy Coleman: Well, I you know I don't know how Ralph
00:52:25.790 --> 00:52:32.899 Cathy Coleman: got into it, but I know that he did write about astrology in his book Maps of Consciousness, which was published in
00:52:33.060 --> 00:52:35.940 Cathy Coleman: like 19
00:52:36.470 --> 00:52:37.710 Cathy Coleman: Oh.
00:52:38.570 --> 00:52:47.129 Cathy Coleman: I think it was published in 1974. I know he was working on it in the early seventies. So it's real, and it's been republished. We recently republished that book
00:52:47.510 --> 00:52:53.755 Cathy Coleman: and so he's got 2 great chapters, great overviews of astrology, and
00:52:55.040 --> 00:53:00.020 Cathy Coleman: so he was really pretty early on, somehow he somehow he
00:53:00.300 --> 00:53:03.019 Cathy Coleman: bumped into it. And I think just because Ralph
00:53:03.260 --> 00:53:11.683 Cathy Coleman: Ralph was so open to everything beyond ordinary reality, that astrology just resonated with him. Then
00:53:12.410 --> 00:53:15.740 Cathy Coleman: And my interests came from
00:53:15.930 --> 00:53:23.669 Cathy Coleman: my my younger brother, actually kind of introduced me to sunshine astrology, and then, when I was in high school, and then
00:53:24.150 --> 00:53:25.130 Cathy Coleman: a
00:53:25.270 --> 00:53:34.010 Cathy Coleman: in my early twenties, when I was around 24, I moved to Houston, Texas, and I'd left my 1st husband and I was
00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:37.079 Cathy Coleman: new in town, new to astrology, and there was a
00:53:37.250 --> 00:54:04.079 Cathy Coleman: course. I opened up the Houston newspaper, and there was a course being taught by an astrologer for the Singles Houston Singles Club. So I went to it, and and that person, the person who taught that Jeannie long became a famous financial astrologer over time. But I just that was my introduction, and I really gravitated toward it. And I've just studied it then for all these years since I was about 24,
00:54:05.040 --> 00:54:12.019 Cathy Coleman: and it, you know. 1st it was just a hobby, and then it just became a profession now, and
00:54:12.610 --> 00:54:17.937 Cathy Coleman: it's my main. It's kind of my main thing. I mean. I'm I've gone. I'm very
00:54:18.500 --> 00:54:24.299 Cathy Coleman: advance. I have the all the testing and all this. I'm actually head of the I'm actually head of the
00:54:24.410 --> 00:54:29.404 Cathy Coleman: professional astrologers Alliance testing and certification program and
00:54:31.960 --> 00:54:37.560 Cathy Coleman: but I've also studied Vedic astrology. So I know that pretty thoroughly, and
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:44.169 Cathy Coleman: some Hellenistic astrology. So I'm I, too, am very interested in different systems of thought and.
00:54:44.170 --> 00:54:45.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So that's really.
00:54:45.210 --> 00:54:52.839 Cathy Coleman: An intersection that Ralph and I shared, and he taught astrology in the summers at Cis
00:54:53.060 --> 00:54:56.380 Cathy Coleman: as A, and I took, you know.
00:54:56.700 --> 00:55:07.360 Cathy Coleman: his course, like, I think it was the second summer that I was there. So he knew I had this deep interest and knowledge of astrology. So we really actually connected
00:55:07.910 --> 00:55:09.069 Cathy Coleman: with that.
00:55:09.070 --> 00:55:09.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I mean.
00:55:09.470 --> 00:55:10.730 Cathy Coleman: Seeing clients.
00:55:11.300 --> 00:55:22.009 Cathy Coleman: probably. Still, even at the time I'm that we got together. But once we got together he just kind of left. He he said, Okay, you be the astrologer, psychologist.
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:23.870 Cathy Coleman: So.
00:55:23.870 --> 00:55:24.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Gotcha.
00:55:24.500 --> 00:55:28.730 Cathy Coleman: So he didn't take it as far as I did on a daily basis. Kind of but.
00:55:28.730 --> 00:55:35.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So. So we just got a minute or 2 left. I'd be curious of what do you think
00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:51.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Ralph would say about sort of the current state of the psychedelic industry, you know, with maps they got turned down on their phase 3 clinical trial for Mdma, and their clinical trials coming up for psilocybin and Lsd.
00:55:51.170 --> 00:56:06.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and there's, you know, some controversy within the industry about the medicalization versus holding it, holding these substances into more traditional or shamanic tradition. What do you think? Ralph's view of all this would be.
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:12.330 Cathy Coleman: Well, Ralph could hold a lot of complexity and chaos.
00:56:12.780 --> 00:56:17.970 Cathy Coleman: And in a way that was part of his magic and his worldview. And
00:56:18.080 --> 00:56:24.069 Cathy Coleman: he, his point of view was that there's a place for it all at the table.
00:56:24.350 --> 00:56:25.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So.
00:56:25.240 --> 00:56:31.920 Cathy Coleman: He wasn't 1 of these polarizing people who was just like no, that they you know the farmers.
00:56:32.460 --> 00:56:43.909 Cathy Coleman: Pharmaceutical industry is not good for psychedelics, he thought. You know it can all. It's it's all good. It's all trying to further the work in a way. Yeah, there are, you know.
00:56:44.370 --> 00:56:47.279 Cathy Coleman: Sometimes there's fringy things that don't work. I mean.
00:56:47.860 --> 00:56:53.069 Cathy Coleman: Ralph. Ralph had a lot of integrity that he always brought to his work, but still he
00:56:53.660 --> 00:56:57.250 Cathy Coleman: he held a place in his mind for everything
00:56:57.720 --> 00:57:00.325 Cathy Coleman: together, I think around the the
00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:21.320 Cathy Coleman: maps being turned down, he would just think, Okay, yeah, it's hard to. It's it's really a hard thing to get through, you know, government, but I think he would think it would happen again. I certainly do. I certainly do think it'll open up at some point. I just think that wasn't the moment. Sometimes there's not the right players in place.
00:57:22.040 --> 00:57:24.240 Cathy Coleman: but you know he he would.
00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:27.936 Cathy Coleman: He'd be a little bit concerned about
00:57:28.710 --> 00:57:35.033 Cathy Coleman: that there's so much I mean, there's like it's grown so fast and so much he would be concerned about
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:43.670 Cathy Coleman: recklessness or integrity. And with people doing things that they're not really, you know, right?
00:57:43.670 --> 00:57:46.130 Cathy Coleman: Right? There are a lot of people out there to do.
00:57:46.130 --> 00:57:51.129 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Who are leading ceremonies, who who are really not qualified, and things like that.
00:57:51.310 --> 00:57:52.580 Cathy Coleman: Right, right.
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:53.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:57:53.930 --> 00:58:04.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, Dr. Holman, it's been a pleasure having you on my show. I could talk to you for hours. Unfortunately, our time is up. Thank you so much for coming on the show again.
00:58:04.680 --> 00:58:13.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Dr. Kathy Coleman, author of the book, Ralph Metzner, explorer of consciousness, highly highly recommended, available wherever books are sold.
00:58:14.545 --> 00:58:16.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So thank you. Dr. Coleman.
00:58:16.970 --> 00:58:18.480 Cathy Coleman: Thank you so much, Sam.
00:58:18.780 --> 00:58:45.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You're welcome, and thank you, my loyal listeners, of course, for tuning in each week without you there is no show. So thank you all for staying with us this time, and don't forget we have lots of shows on talkradio, dot Nyc. Our next live show. Frank is on hiatus. So Tommy's show tomorrow morning, philanthropy and focus all about nonprofits. Thank you all for tuning in. Take care we will talk to you all next week.
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