This week, on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam is pleased to welcome Author, Speaker, Consultant, Coach, and Ceremonialist, Dr. Jonathan Ellerby.
Dr. Jonathan Ellerby is an accomplished senior leader, keynote speaker, healer, and consultant with a profound understanding of the transformative process and the power of wholeness. As a two-time bestselling author with Hay House Publishing, he has shared the stage with renowned figures such as Wayne Dyer and Deepak Chopra, showcasing his expertise across a diverse range of platforms—from corporate boardrooms to wellness retreats in southern Africa.
With over 35 years of study and 25 years of professional experience, Jonathan combines his lighthearted style and infectious energy with a compassionate approach to healing and personal growth. His PhD in comparative religion, focusing on Indigenous healing traditions, has informed his work as an executive coach and workshop facilitator for leading companies like Pepsico, Honda, and the U.S. Navy. His extensive travels and training with healers from over forty cultures have enriched his teachings, making them relevant and impactful for diverse audiences.
His latest book, The Seven Gateways of Spiritual Experience: Awakening to a Deeper Knowledge of Love, Life Balance, and God is a journey through the seven most common and important spiritual experiences.
Tune in and share all of your questions and comments about your spiritual experiences on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
https://amzn.to/3PRnnep
https://www.jonathanellerby.com/
Sam Liebowitz opens the latest episode of The Conscious Consultant Hour by reflecting on the profound journey of inner work and healing, emphasizing that while the path may feel endless and painful, it ultimately leads to transformation and unexpected miracles. He reassures listeners that every challenge faced and every moment of vulnerability contributes to deep personal growth, even when the results seem invisible at first. Encouraging spiritual seekers to trust in divine timing, he reminds them that breakthroughs arrive when least expected, affirming that patience and faith are essential in manifesting the healing and fulfillment they seek.
Sam Liebowitz welcomes Dr. Jonathan Ellerby, a renowned author and healer, to discuss the nature of spiritual experiences and their transformative potential. Dr. Ellerby shares how his lifelong encounters with heightened awareness, subtle energies, and profound moments of connection inspired his latest book, The 7 Gateways of Spiritual Experience, which explores the common ways people experience the divine. He emphasizes that spiritual experiences are deeply personal, can emerge from both joy and suffering, and often feel more real than ordinary life, ultimately guiding individuals toward healing, wholeness, and deeper understanding.
Sam Liebowitz and Dr. Jonathan Ellerby explore the depth of spiritual experiences, particularly the profound states of cosmic self-awareness and pure consciousness, which offer glimpses into our boundless nature. They discuss how these experiences, whether through meditation, dreams, or even psychedelics, can elevate our understanding of existence but must be integrated into daily life to avoid spiritual bypassing. Dr. Ellerby emphasizes that spiritual awakening is not about escaping reality but about bringing higher wisdom into the world, fostering personal and collective transformation through embodied presence and mindful action.
00:00:45.030 --> 00:00:52.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators. Good morning. Good evening. Wherever you're tuning in from
00:00:52.450 --> 00:01:15.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: welcome to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. I am very, very pleased that you are all here with me today. We have another wonderful show in store for you. Did you catch last week's show with Kamala Kapoor. It was a wonderful show, talking about aging and getting older, and
00:01:15.860 --> 00:01:27.219 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know how to accept that and use that as a spiritual practice. I think if you miss that, it's an important show. I like having the important conversations. So please check that out.
00:01:27.420 --> 00:01:37.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But today, welcome, we're going to start off, as we always do with a blog post from a couple of years ago, and this one
00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:43.049 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is entitled, The result of our inner work
00:01:43.240 --> 00:01:47.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: are the miracles life has yet to bring us.
00:01:49.450 --> 00:01:53.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sometimes we wonder why we do all this hard work
00:01:54.270 --> 00:02:00.279 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: going through our deepest trauma and feeling those unprocessed feelings
00:02:01.260 --> 00:02:05.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we work on ourselves, and then more stuff comes up.
00:02:05.550 --> 00:02:11.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Staying on the path can be challenging when there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.
00:02:13.380 --> 00:02:18.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How many times do we have to feel raw and vulnerable.
00:02:19.950 --> 00:02:27.859 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Why do I have to keep processing these long, forgotten, painful times of my life.
00:02:29.530 --> 00:02:36.799 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: when we commit to the path of self-development. We sometimes don't know what we're in for.
00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:44.889 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and as we explore and examine and transform who we are, it can get tiring. At times
00:02:45.460 --> 00:02:51.159 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we can lose the desire to continue when we feel as if we're not getting anywhere.
00:02:52.490 --> 00:02:59.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It can seem like our internal work is a bottomless pit of nuts to unwind.
00:02:59.650 --> 00:03:08.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Being disheartened is not unusual, unexpected, until something amazing happened.
00:03:09.310 --> 00:03:14.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That moment when suddenly we see the result of all our effort.
00:03:15.870 --> 00:03:18.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Perhaps it is a miracle in our health.
00:03:19.150 --> 00:03:22.599 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or we finally meet the person of our dreams.
00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:29.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Maybe that opportunity. We always wanted to be able to shine
00:03:30.070 --> 00:03:36.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that opportunity. We always wanted to be able to shine on stage or in our community just magically shows up.
00:03:38.140 --> 00:03:44.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's when we can look back at the long and winding road we have been on.
00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and know that it was worth it.
00:03:47.650 --> 00:03:52.629 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This transformation may seem to come out of the blue.
00:03:53.190 --> 00:03:57.789 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: yet in reality it was something we had been cultivating the whole time.
00:03:58.460 --> 00:04:05.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: While we were distracted, doing our work and digging in deep. We were also healing and growing.
00:04:06.650 --> 00:04:11.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The miracle we just experienced did not come out of nowhere.
00:04:12.660 --> 00:04:19.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Indeed, we had been paving the path for it to show up for many years.
00:04:20.250 --> 00:04:26.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All those dark nights of the soul we endured was for this very moment
00:04:28.340 --> 00:04:36.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the tears we shed, the pain we felt it was all for something more than we could have imagined.
00:04:36.790 --> 00:04:45.290 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for when we step onto the path of growth, we truly have no idea where it will lead us.
00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:53.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is only in hindsight that we can see clearly the great service we have been doing for ourselves.
00:04:54.460 --> 00:05:02.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So when the days seem dark and the times feel so challenging, know that there is something more waiting for us.
00:05:03.410 --> 00:05:07.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We are not meant to suffer through our lives.
00:05:07.370 --> 00:05:12.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and life will reward us in ways we can't fathom at the moment.
00:05:14.330 --> 00:05:17.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Stay on the path, keep moving forward.
00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:24.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is the only way to see what miracles are in store for us.
00:05:26.200 --> 00:05:34.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so what can you hold on to when you are struggling to keep your spirits up so.
00:05:37.550 --> 00:05:40.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I believe that this is something.
00:05:44.500 --> 00:05:58.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I wrote about a couple of years ago when I started working with some folks who had already done a lot of work. They were in therapy. They're doing other kinds of healing work before they came to me.
00:05:59.530 --> 00:06:02.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And they, you know, we started working together, and they just
00:06:04.810 --> 00:06:11.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: they were just like, when is it all going to be over like, when am I going to feel better? How long is it going to take? And and there's just this.
00:06:12.370 --> 00:06:24.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and had so much empathy for them of like, we're doing this deep work. We're feeling miserable. We're slogging our way through like, when does it all get better?
00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:37.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And you know, sometimes it's it's hard to really be able to tell that like
00:06:39.640 --> 00:06:46.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: while we're going through all this stuff when while we're we're we're facing our own inner battles.
00:06:47.340 --> 00:06:51.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and it can feel like we've been doing it for so long.
00:06:52.040 --> 00:07:03.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The the truth usually is that even though it may feel like a long time, it may feel like, you know, years. It took us a lot longer to get where we are. You know it's a lot less time than
00:07:03.840 --> 00:07:09.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: than what we spent being in trauma or being in pain.
00:07:11.185 --> 00:07:13.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Being in our healing path.
00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:21.159 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But I get it. You know, we're we're working on this
00:07:21.340 --> 00:07:30.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: path and we start off. And we just want to feel better. We're just looking for some relief. I understand I get it.
00:07:31.930 --> 00:07:35.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But I think what came to me.
00:07:35.730 --> 00:07:41.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and and how I I spoke to this person in particular, and and a couple of people
00:07:42.260 --> 00:07:48.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: was to remind them that, you know there is no such thing as an overnight sensation.
00:07:49.640 --> 00:07:54.290 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The most overnight sensations were years and decades in the making.
00:07:54.770 --> 00:07:59.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and the same thing is true for our healing path.
00:07:59.950 --> 00:08:06.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The same thing is true for our spiritual growth. The same thing is true for life in general.
00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:24.759 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that even though we may feel like we're stuck in our pain, we're stuck in our past. We're stuck in our trauma, and and we keep reliving and and going through it, and releasing all this anguish and suffering.
00:08:25.640 --> 00:08:31.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and then and it seems to be almost a bottomless pit, and we keep doing more
00:08:36.470 --> 00:08:43.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: what we don't see and and what we can't see, because it hasn't fully manifested yet.
00:08:44.270 --> 00:08:50.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that each session we go to each ritual we go to each ceremony we work on each time where
00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:56.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we're really being present to our pain and our trauma.
00:08:57.850 --> 00:09:00.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We're lightening up our nervous system.
00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:04.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We're we're taking a step forward
00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:08.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: in in a very positive direction.
00:09:10.280 --> 00:09:13.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and it may not be apparent in our day-to-day life.
00:09:13.690 --> 00:09:16.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It may not be apparent in how we feel.
00:09:19.660 --> 00:09:26.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But one day, you know, someone once said, it takes
00:09:27.170 --> 00:09:32.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: longer than we think it will, but it happens quicker than we imagine.
00:09:32.940 --> 00:09:37.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Then one day, suddenly something happens.
00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:46.669 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and there's a breakthrough, and it doesn't mean that, like everything is better. It doesn't mean that all of a sudden life is all roses and rainbows and unicorns. No.
00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:52.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: life is still life. There's still going to be challenges, and and we still need to
00:09:53.640 --> 00:09:55.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: face what we need to face.
00:09:59.020 --> 00:10:03.799 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But we do have that moment that we thought would never come where we just felt better.
00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:09.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and it's so funny. I mean this blog post I wrote a couple of years ago. But
00:10:09.410 --> 00:10:13.239 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: this particular client who I'm thinking of.
00:10:14.050 --> 00:10:20.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we work together for probably a little over a year, maybe about a year.
00:10:20.730 --> 00:10:29.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and this past summer had a huge breakthrough, huge, huge breakthrough, and
00:10:30.180 --> 00:10:35.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: it was just so wonderful to see, having been witness to
00:10:35.920 --> 00:10:50.099 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: how they were so stuck in their pain, how they were so tied up in in all the things that that had gone wrong, and and to see them really laugh and have joy. It just warmed my heart.
00:10:53.150 --> 00:11:01.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and I had no idea it was gonna happen that night. They had no idea it was just.
00:11:01.620 --> 00:11:09.029 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It was just a breakthrough, and and that's the thing. We never, never know where that point will happen.
00:11:09.430 --> 00:11:16.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We're suddenly some switches flipped, some some
00:11:16.570 --> 00:11:19.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: barrier. It's it's just gotten through.
00:11:20.060 --> 00:11:23.829 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And for the 1st time in a long, long time.
00:11:24.300 --> 00:11:27.669 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We just feel like this sense of relief
00:11:27.860 --> 00:11:33.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like we can take a breath without feeling like we're suffocating
00:11:34.420 --> 00:11:39.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that moment where we can just B
00:11:40.090 --> 00:11:48.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and be who we are, and and and just find that moment of feeling good after years of not feeling good.
00:11:52.010 --> 00:11:56.279 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so that's the result of all the work that we've done.
00:11:59.250 --> 00:12:04.789 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And again, it's it's it's like that old analogy of when you plant a seed
00:12:05.910 --> 00:12:14.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and you fertilize the soil, and you keep watering it, and you keep watering it, and nothing seems to be happening
00:12:16.270 --> 00:12:23.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: until one day a little stem pops up, and there are a couple of leaves, and then, before you know it, it's growing into a plant.
00:12:25.730 --> 00:12:29.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But that whole time that we were tending to that seed.
00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:37.479 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Something was happening underneath the ground roots had started coming out.
00:12:37.950 --> 00:12:45.849 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It had started developing. We just couldn't see it yet, and that's the thing.
00:12:47.760 --> 00:12:55.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: just because we're not seeing the result of all the effort and the work that we're doing
00:12:55.540 --> 00:13:01.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: does not mean that that result is not coming.
00:13:03.980 --> 00:13:06.439 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It just takes some time.
00:13:07.680 --> 00:13:13.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and when we're in pain and when we're suffering, it's so hard to have patience.
00:13:13.810 --> 00:13:21.150 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's so hard to be able to say like, Okay, I'm going to.
00:13:22.160 --> 00:13:28.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I can. I'll wait and see that I know the the the results will come.
00:13:28.850 --> 00:13:31.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's so hard to say that
00:13:31.680 --> 00:13:36.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: because we have been in pain for so long or numb for so long.
00:13:38.090 --> 00:13:43.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All we want to do is just feel good to be in our own skin.
00:13:47.160 --> 00:13:50.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So of course it's not easy.
00:13:51.350 --> 00:13:57.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's why so few of us really do the work to really heal at a deep level.
00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:09.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so this blog post is meant to just be a word of encouragement, word of
00:14:10.900 --> 00:14:15.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to just keep the faith, and just know that things
00:14:15.940 --> 00:14:22.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: are getting better. We just don't see the result of that yet. Stay on the path.
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:29.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: trust the process. Keep doing your work. Keep showing up.
00:14:34.070 --> 00:14:37.489 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: If we keep moving in that direction.
00:14:38.660 --> 00:14:43.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There is no way but the results cannot come to us.
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:47.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It just doesn't come to us in our timing.
00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:52.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It comes to us in the universe's timing.
00:14:55.290 --> 00:14:59.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and so having the trust, when there's no reason to trust
00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:06.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: keeping the faith that things will be better, even though we have no reason to have faith.
00:15:08.510 --> 00:15:11.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know that's the hardest part of all.
00:15:13.800 --> 00:15:19.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet if we do, if we can hold on to that little flicker of hope.
00:15:20.620 --> 00:15:31.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and stay our course and stay with our healing. Oh, the rewards can be events immense.
00:15:33.830 --> 00:15:34.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So
00:15:34.780 --> 00:15:46.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that's my blog post. The title of it, again, is the result of our inner work. Are the miracles life has yet to bring us.
00:15:46.590 --> 00:16:13.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and you can always find my blog@talkradio.nyc slash, blog, and there's lots and lots of blog posts in there. So if you like this one. There's plenty there, and don't forget. There's also my book Everyday Awakening. If you love these readings that I do at the beginning of every show. Then you'll love my book everyday Awakening. All right, we're going to take a quick break.
00:16:13.910 --> 00:16:21.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and when we come back we'll get on with our show and our main topic. Everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to
00:16:21.530 --> 00:16:28.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity, and we will be right back in just a moment.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.889 Jonathan Ellerby: Technology. I don't know what to tell you.
00:24:28.890 --> 00:24:31.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Aha! There he is all good.
00:24:31.290 --> 00:24:57.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so let me welcome to the show author, speaker, consultant, coach, and ceremonialist, Dr. Jonathan Ellerby. Dr. Ellerby is an accomplished senior leader, keynote speaker, healer, and consultant, with a profound understanding of the transformative process and the power of wholeness. As a two-time bestselling author with Hayhouse publishing. He has shared the stage with such renowned figures as Wayne Dyer and Deepak Chop are 2 people I love
00:24:57.810 --> 00:25:21.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: showcasing his expertise across a diverse range of platforms from corporate boardrooms to wellness, retreats in South Africa. His latest book is the 7 Gateways of spiritual Experience, awakening to a deeper knowledge of love, life, balance, and God is a journey through the 7 most common and important spiritual experiences.
00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:23.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Glad you finally made it, Jonathan.
00:25:24.010 --> 00:25:27.899 Jonathan Ellerby: Yeah, I I can't say I understand what happened. But it's never worth
00:25:28.010 --> 00:25:31.120 Jonathan Ellerby: spending the time to review technical problems, is it?
00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:33.140 Jonathan Ellerby: Absolutely, absolutely.
00:25:33.140 --> 00:25:43.210 Jonathan Ellerby: I'm I'm grateful to be here, though, and I do love your show, and I, you and I do know each other a bit, and I'm was really happy to come back and talk to you so.
00:25:43.210 --> 00:25:43.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:25:43.850 --> 00:25:44.820 Jonathan Ellerby: Thanks for having me.
00:25:44.820 --> 00:25:46.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You're welcome, you're welcome.
00:25:46.690 --> 00:25:49.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So quick question.
00:25:50.450 --> 00:25:59.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What got you into this idea of spiritual experiences? Is this something that has been a part of your life for a long time. Is this something that developed later on in life?
00:26:01.010 --> 00:26:07.010 Jonathan Ellerby: Yeah, it's it's such a. It's such an interesting story to look back on. I mean, the answer is simple and short, but the
00:26:08.140 --> 00:26:15.430 Jonathan Ellerby: but the life experience of it is long and complicated. So the short answer is that, did I,
00:26:15.560 --> 00:26:18.889 Jonathan Ellerby: that I had a you might say I had a propensity
00:26:19.130 --> 00:26:33.139 Jonathan Ellerby: as a young person for spiritual experiences, and I think you know, at some level everyone does as young people. If you define spiritual experiences broadly meaning a greater sense of wonder, maybe a sense of
00:26:33.460 --> 00:26:46.480 Jonathan Ellerby: a subtle energy in things, a heightened, heightened sense of intuition. And then, even for some young people, the experience or or perception that maybe they've even encountered magical beings or things like that.
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:54.339 Jonathan Ellerby: But at the same time, you know, a lot of those childhood experiences do also lean into the psychological.
00:26:54.800 --> 00:27:02.009 Jonathan Ellerby: So we have ideas of, you know, imaginary friends and things like that, very important experiences, but not exactly spiritual experiences.
00:27:02.420 --> 00:27:09.859 Jonathan Ellerby: And what started for happening for me at quite a young age was that the experiences were definitely pronounced.
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:23.020 Jonathan Ellerby: They were notable, and and many of them are outlined in the book. So for someone listening, that's thinking, what is he even talking about? So it might be a perception of of energy in a place.
00:27:23.410 --> 00:27:49.420 Jonathan Ellerby: and the and the actual awareness of it like, Hey, there's something here that's not over here, or the perception in nature that maybe somehow there was a kind of spirit in things that was communicating something to me. Now, what was challenging for me, and ultimately, ultimately, decades later, led to the book was that as I continued to have spiritual experiences into adulthood.
00:27:50.237 --> 00:27:55.270 Jonathan Ellerby: And certainly, when I was younger, I'd say with alarming frequency and diversity.
00:27:56.310 --> 00:28:00.110 Jonathan Ellerby: I was always astonished at how ill-equipped I was
00:28:00.340 --> 00:28:05.029 Jonathan Ellerby: to talk about them with others, how ill-equipped others were
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:08.659 Jonathan Ellerby: to think about them or respond about them.
00:28:08.870 --> 00:28:13.689 Jonathan Ellerby: And eventually I began to wonder, like, what are other people doing
00:28:13.890 --> 00:28:19.320 Jonathan Ellerby: with their spiritual experiences? And over the years I have found
00:28:19.550 --> 00:28:22.660 Jonathan Ellerby: a huge number of my clients, have
00:28:22.750 --> 00:28:35.899 Jonathan Ellerby: stuffed them down, ignored them, minimized them, felt ashamed of them, wrote them off, as you know, one thing or another, a kind of a brain fart of sorts.
00:28:35.990 --> 00:29:04.930 Jonathan Ellerby: So after many years of, you know, study and analyzing the literature, and so on and so forth. I thought, Wow, maybe this book will help people to realize what spiritual experiences are that it's a normal, healthy part of being human. What the diversity of common and important spiritual experiences are, how to make sense of them, and how to apply their gifts in our lives. So that's in a nutshell. The journey from
00:29:05.020 --> 00:29:07.550 Jonathan Ellerby: how did it start to? To what's it about?
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:13.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay, so so let's define our terms. So people know exactly what we're talking.
00:29:13.130 --> 00:29:14.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:26.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so what? And by the way, my wife loves your book, and she like started to look at it. And she's like, Oh, I like this and took it, and so I didn't get a chance to read it, but she read it, so she gave me some questions for you.
00:29:26.330 --> 00:29:26.710 Jonathan Ellerby: Great.
00:29:26.710 --> 00:29:30.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So what is a spiritual experience?
00:29:30.500 --> 00:29:31.410 Jonathan Ellerby: Hmm!
00:29:34.630 --> 00:29:38.390 Jonathan Ellerby: So I'm going to answer that a few ways.
00:29:40.090 --> 00:29:43.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I'm not going to start with how I answer it in the book. Okay.
00:29:44.150 --> 00:29:50.890 Jonathan Ellerby: I want to start by saying that I would like to find a balance
00:29:51.420 --> 00:29:57.099 Jonathan Ellerby: between affirming anything that someone quote feels is spiritual
00:29:57.580 --> 00:30:05.950 Jonathan Ellerby: meaning. If someone's listening to this. And they say, Oh, yeah, I have spiritual experiences all the time, because when I sit down to eat my breakfast I just feel so grateful.
00:30:06.950 --> 00:30:20.110 Jonathan Ellerby: I would not want to from an academic standpoint, dismiss that or minimize that and say, Well, actually, that's not an experience of non-ordinary reality. Your consciousness is ordinary, and the phenomena is natural, so it doesn't count.
00:30:20.671 --> 00:30:28.780 Jonathan Ellerby: So I want to start by saying, Let's be careful when we define terms that we don't reduce access
00:30:29.320 --> 00:30:34.689 Jonathan Ellerby: to moments of meaning, and I would say to anyone listening, anything that feels
00:30:34.860 --> 00:30:48.859 Jonathan Ellerby: like a peaceful or important moment of meaning, that you would label as sacred or spiritual. That sounds good. I would cultivate those, on the other hand, to be a little more precise, and in the way I'm looking at things.
00:30:49.350 --> 00:31:07.519 Jonathan Ellerby: I do try to draw from my academic background. And what's common to all of the 7 types. And, interestingly, if you look at the classic work of William James and the more recent work of neurologist Andrew Newberg.
00:31:07.940 --> 00:31:19.040 Jonathan Ellerby: you'll find some similar definitions, which is that they they absolutely feel like non ordinary experiences, like when it's happening.
00:31:19.190 --> 00:31:32.869 Jonathan Ellerby: there is a self awareness. This is this, something's different right now, this is not like riding the bus. This is not like listening to a great piece of music. This is something has changed in our senses, something has changed in our perception.
00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:47.610 Jonathan Ellerby: something has changed in us, or we perceive something has changed around us. Another thing that's interesting about these experiences is is that they feel as real as ordinary life
00:31:47.840 --> 00:31:51.830 Jonathan Ellerby: or more, which is an interesting
00:31:52.000 --> 00:32:02.819 Jonathan Ellerby: quality, and this again bears up in the literature over time. People will say, I know I might have been perceiving things differently, but it felt more real than my ordinary life.
00:32:03.100 --> 00:32:03.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:32:03.580 --> 00:32:17.210 Jonathan Ellerby: Right. So even if they experience a spirit or an angel, or a sense of oneness with all reality, whether it's a meditative experience, a church experience, a Yoga experience, a psychedelic experience.
00:32:17.530 --> 00:32:21.859 Jonathan Ellerby: Once they enter that quote spiritual experience.
00:32:22.070 --> 00:32:24.129 Jonathan Ellerby: it feels like they're in contact
00:32:24.390 --> 00:32:35.199 Jonathan Ellerby: with another dimension of our world. And and and you know I could go on. But I think I think those are some of the the key all marks.
00:32:35.540 --> 00:32:42.910 Jonathan Ellerby: And and I would add that there's definitely a different experience of our senses.
00:32:42.910 --> 00:32:43.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you.
00:32:43.250 --> 00:32:51.150 Jonathan Ellerby: Usually a marker of it as well. Now on the spectrum of experiences that could be from heightened senses
00:32:51.270 --> 00:32:54.420 Jonathan Ellerby: to almost the vanishing of senses.
00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:55.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:32:55.570 --> 00:33:00.669 Jonathan Ellerby: But there's usually a dramatic change in in sense awareness.
00:33:01.970 --> 00:33:11.559 Jonathan Ellerby: Oh, sorry! Which reminds me that that William James coined a phrase, a famous psychologist from over a hundred years ago. The felt sense, the felt
00:33:11.560 --> 00:33:12.170 Jonathan Ellerby: that syndicated.
00:33:12.170 --> 00:33:20.260 Jonathan Ellerby: He argued that in spiritual experiences we actually feel something that is neither emotion nor thought.
00:33:20.670 --> 00:33:23.420 Jonathan Ellerby: It's a distinct category
00:33:23.750 --> 00:33:29.450 Jonathan Ellerby: of lived experience that is only known when you have it. So there's a nice little curveball to throw in.
00:33:31.874 --> 00:33:36.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: in in the book you talk about an experience you had in an airport.
00:33:37.930 --> 00:33:40.210 Jonathan Ellerby: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:33:40.460 --> 00:33:41.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So.
00:33:42.980 --> 00:33:48.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm wondering if maybe you can just relate the basics of the experience, and I have a question around that for you.
00:33:49.550 --> 00:33:59.669 Jonathan Ellerby: Yeah, if it's the if it's a story that I think you're talking about, it's it's actually really nice one to point out, because I feel when I try to briefly summarize it.
00:34:00.090 --> 00:34:03.079 Jonathan Ellerby: People listening can cultivate this kind of experience.
00:34:03.700 --> 00:34:10.980 Jonathan Ellerby: And I believe it's the story of being stuck in an airport. I think I was traveling on the holidays, and it was very frustrating, very stressful.
00:34:11.623 --> 00:34:16.770 Jonathan Ellerby: Excuse me, I think I think I was actually in Denver. Now that I think about it. I don't know if I put that in the book.
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:18.920 Jonathan Ellerby: but I still remember it quite vivid.
00:34:19.330 --> 00:34:22.439 Jonathan Ellerby: And it was just.
00:34:22.670 --> 00:34:29.879 Jonathan Ellerby: you know, it's 1 of those moments where it just feels like anything that could go wrong did go wrong, and all the disappointments I didn't want were showing up.
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:30.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:37.159 Jonathan Ellerby: But I made a conscious decision. So here's a step right for people listening to step back
00:34:38.069 --> 00:34:40.889 Jonathan Ellerby: to allow my feelings, but to observe them
00:34:41.409 --> 00:34:45.999 Jonathan Ellerby: to choose or consider possible reframing
00:34:46.219 --> 00:34:54.219 Jonathan Ellerby: like, let's, you know, whatever that might be could be prayerful, could be meditative, could be doing a little breath work, and I remember putting on music.
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:57.700 Jonathan Ellerby: So you made that choice before you put on the music.
00:34:59.370 --> 00:35:06.460 Jonathan Ellerby: I think there was an intentionality to it. Yeah, I mean, I won't say I did it as an exercise, the way I'm prescribing it.
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:23.909 Jonathan Ellerby: But I think there was a kind of intentionality like, okay, let's take a breath, and let's just see if we can get to a new place, it would have been something like that. Now, what happened wasn't quite what I thought I was setting myself up for. I think I was setting myself up for relaxation.
00:35:24.570 --> 00:35:26.869 Jonathan Ellerby: Little stress management. But what happened
00:35:27.549 --> 00:35:31.379 Jonathan Ellerby: was that as the music played, and I remember it was opera.
00:35:31.870 --> 00:35:35.449 Jonathan Ellerby: I remember allowing myself to kind of
00:35:36.084 --> 00:35:39.780 Jonathan Ellerby: spontaneously. I don't know if I was wise enough that I could tell people.
00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:40.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I did that on purpose.
00:35:40.450 --> 00:35:43.590 Jonathan Ellerby: To kind of let go of my story of the day.
00:35:43.590 --> 00:35:44.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:35:44.610 --> 00:35:46.940 Jonathan Ellerby: And to take a moment to just be present.
00:35:47.220 --> 00:35:51.780 Jonathan Ellerby: feel the music. I think I was walking, and
00:35:52.050 --> 00:35:56.739 Jonathan Ellerby: and just be with my senses. And what what trans transition
00:35:57.520 --> 00:36:02.540 Jonathan Ellerby: was that? Suddenly it was more than I was listening to music.
00:36:03.600 --> 00:36:12.529 Jonathan Ellerby: It was like, I felt like my senses began to open my sense of calm began to grow, and and strangely.
00:36:12.990 --> 00:36:16.599 Jonathan Ellerby: almost like out of a movie. It was like everyone was suddenly
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:20.139 Jonathan Ellerby: in the music. They were as if they could all hear it.
00:36:20.830 --> 00:36:24.580 Jonathan Ellerby: and the drama of the music was the drama of the people and the beauty of the music.
00:36:24.580 --> 00:36:25.139 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Music was the.
00:36:25.140 --> 00:36:46.700 Jonathan Ellerby: Beauty of the people, and as I heard different accents of maybe passion, I would see, you know people at the desk struggling with their canceled flight, and as I heard the lighter notes of violins playing in the background, maybe I would notice the children. And and there was this strange way
00:36:47.420 --> 00:36:54.319 Jonathan Ellerby: awareness shifted, and it was like I could see that life really is just a kind of symphony.
00:36:54.470 --> 00:36:55.020 Jonathan Ellerby: And then.
00:36:55.020 --> 00:37:09.789 Jonathan Ellerby: even though we may focus on one note or another, one melody or another, one instrument or another. Right? The kettle drums can sound really threatening, if that's all you hear. Boom, boom, boom! But when you hear them in the concert.
00:37:10.460 --> 00:37:17.030 Jonathan Ellerby: When you see how they play a role in the whole story. Well, then, everything becomes beautiful.
00:37:17.230 --> 00:37:17.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:37:17.890 --> 00:37:31.990 Jonathan Ellerby: It's not entirely good, and it's not entirely bad kind of like the music, I mean. As I say, it happened to be opera, and that is opera actually, which is opera, shows the trauma and loss and betrayal, and death
00:37:32.160 --> 00:37:39.090 Jonathan Ellerby: is also beautiful, not beautiful in the sense that we like it or want it, but it's a part of the human condition.
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:39.899 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's a part.
00:37:39.900 --> 00:37:43.879 Jonathan Ellerby: Of what connects us, and that's what I took away from that moment, which is like, well.
00:37:44.130 --> 00:37:47.460 Jonathan Ellerby: this isn't what I wanted, but this is a beautiful moment, too.
00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:49.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right? So
00:37:50.300 --> 00:37:55.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so. And you you kind of classified that as a spiritual experience, because it sort of took you out of
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:57.789 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: where you were before.
00:37:58.180 --> 00:38:00.569 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Could that have happened without the music.
00:38:03.110 --> 00:38:08.780 Jonathan Ellerby: Well, yes. So an interesting, you know. Question is about conditions for spiritual experiences.
00:38:10.250 --> 00:38:18.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and so again, if someone wants to cultivate spiritual experience. And I try to provide some notes and throughout the book at the end of each chapter. If you want
00:38:18.350 --> 00:38:18.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the 6.
00:38:18.720 --> 00:38:25.130 Jonathan Ellerby: Experience. Here's some things to try, and what I'll say is, on one hand, we can set ourselves up
00:38:25.510 --> 00:38:29.589 Jonathan Ellerby: for optimizing the possibility of an experience.
00:38:30.680 --> 00:38:38.750 Jonathan Ellerby: and they can also happen completely, randomly, completely, randomly, and and many people describe them almost as an act of grace.
00:38:39.080 --> 00:38:43.270 Jonathan Ellerby: You know whether whether they meant for it to happen or not.
00:38:43.370 --> 00:39:12.300 Jonathan Ellerby: And I've you know, and I've talked to people. You know, psychedelics is an interesting topic. Relating to this because I've talked to people who've told me, you know. Gosh, man, I read your book, but you know sometimes you know I'll get high, and I'll sit on the patio and do some breathing. And I'm I'm like wanting a spiritual experience, and nothing happens, you know, and then other moments, I'm walking the dog, and it does happen or another moment. I'm getting high and like what's going on. What am I doing wrong?
00:39:13.380 --> 00:39:15.120 Jonathan Ellerby: And you know my answer is.
00:39:15.750 --> 00:39:18.260 Jonathan Ellerby: there's only so much we can control in life.
00:39:18.470 --> 00:39:19.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:39:19.470 --> 00:39:27.659 Jonathan Ellerby: From the neurological, which might be well, you might have been more stressed that day than you thought. So you just weren't close enough
00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:32.249 Jonathan Ellerby: to a place of letting go where spiritual experience could come in. That's possible.
00:39:32.450 --> 00:39:37.629 Jonathan Ellerby: But I'm also not above considering that there's much more subtler factors whether that.
00:39:37.630 --> 00:39:38.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's.
00:39:38.490 --> 00:39:51.509 Jonathan Ellerby: The existence of an energy world, the existence of a spirit world, the existence of God, or or or conscious energies, and they may play a part in determining when they want to show up or not.
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:58.070 Jonathan Ellerby: So from from the unconscious to the supernatural. I think there could be many things.
00:39:58.230 --> 00:39:59.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That shape.
00:39:59.110 --> 00:40:03.940 Jonathan Ellerby: When and why we have them. But to close, I will say
00:40:04.130 --> 00:40:13.609 Jonathan Ellerby: the basic seems like a funny word. But some let's say some of the on the spectrum. Some of the 1st levels, particularly one and 2,
00:40:13.810 --> 00:40:19.380 Jonathan Ellerby: that really only require present moment awareness.
00:40:19.380 --> 00:40:19.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:40:19.890 --> 00:40:29.250 Jonathan Ellerby: So, and a willingness just to feel and see and be available, and and that will optimize an experience, whether you have the music or not.
00:40:29.560 --> 00:40:45.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I got you. I got you, but but also something you said. Then the music, like there's there can be heartbreak. There can be other things like. So you don't like you don't have to feel all blissful and perfect. It sounds like in order to have a spiritual experience.
00:40:46.290 --> 00:40:46.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or do you?
00:40:46.700 --> 00:40:47.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You.
00:40:47.540 --> 00:41:04.829 Jonathan Ellerby: No? Well, no. So you're so. So there's 2 elements to this question, which is one, the content of the experience and the context of the experience. And I would say, in terms of the context, I'd say both extremes lend themselves to spiritual experiences. So when people are in love.
00:41:05.090 --> 00:41:05.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When people.
00:41:05.540 --> 00:41:12.860 Jonathan Ellerby: Get a job when people win the lottery. Right? I mean, there's euphoria that goes with those things.
00:41:13.370 --> 00:41:21.059 Jonathan Ellerby: But very often those you, those euphoric moments allow us finally to stop thinking and analyzing and striving.
00:41:21.060 --> 00:41:21.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:41:21.580 --> 00:41:23.260 Jonathan Ellerby: And sometimes just to be
00:41:23.600 --> 00:41:34.560 Jonathan Ellerby: present like this is a quick. I'm gonna try to make this quick and go to the other part. I remember there was a chance it didn't happen. I I was. I was being vetted for the Oprah show.
00:41:34.560 --> 00:41:34.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh!
00:41:34.930 --> 00:41:44.590 Jonathan Ellerby: And and I got to go to Chicago and sit on an episode and meet a producer. And ultimately it ended up being Oprah's last season, so it didn't happen for me.
00:41:44.700 --> 00:41:46.669 Jonathan Ellerby: But I have to tell you like
00:41:46.830 --> 00:42:16.799 Jonathan Ellerby: I remember after that meeting, and after that show like going to a cafe to wait for a friend to pick me up. I mean, I was as high as a kite, and everything was like magic and twinkling, and and so you could say, Well, is that just psychological projection like everything's coming up roses. And I'd say, Well, yeah, sure, the the positivity of the moment was the gateway. In that case, that allowed me to drop
00:42:17.060 --> 00:42:25.390 Jonathan Ellerby: all my analysis and judgment and just see like, Wow, when I'm willing to see it, there are always good things happening.
00:42:26.020 --> 00:42:29.550 Jonathan Ellerby: On the other hand, the the question about content.
00:42:30.260 --> 00:42:39.004 Jonathan Ellerby: Oh, sorry context. So great moments can lend themselves to these little epiphanies and and spiritual encounters.
00:42:39.700 --> 00:42:50.310 Jonathan Ellerby: but tragic and challenging and dramatically difficult and painful moments also do as well, and I would say the research seems to suggest that they might even be more potent
00:42:50.650 --> 00:42:56.980 Jonathan Ellerby: that people in prisons, people in war fall in trauma.
00:42:56.980 --> 00:43:09.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because I've had people on my show who, as you said, have been in prison, had a spiritual experience. One gentleman, a good friend of mine, Gp. Walsh, who's his teacher?
00:43:09.540 --> 00:43:22.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: He was going to kill himself. He was like standing on a bridge ready to jump off when he had this big mystical experience. And so it seems like, especially
00:43:22.540 --> 00:43:39.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I mean, it doesn't always happen. But it seems like when someone's struggling with that sort of life or death like I'm done. I'm just going to kill myself and be done with it like then, all of a sudden, I don't know. Maybe there's some surrender or something, and then they have this mystical experience.
00:43:40.220 --> 00:43:48.140 Jonathan Ellerby: A absolutely, absolutely. So you're you're completely right that this is a common phenomena common.
00:43:48.280 --> 00:43:55.960 Jonathan Ellerby: In fact, some of the research on addiction I came across recently shows that
00:43:56.230 --> 00:43:59.603 Jonathan Ellerby: I mean, this was kind of crazy, but actually it was
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:09.410 Jonathan Ellerby: out of a clinic in New York. I'd have to. I could check it. I don't know the the reference right now, but they were willing to to state that a hundred percent.
00:44:10.560 --> 00:44:11.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow!
00:44:11.540 --> 00:44:18.600 Jonathan Ellerby: Of their patients who made dramatic recovery in addiction, had a spiritual experience.
00:44:18.980 --> 00:44:19.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow!
00:44:19.770 --> 00:44:24.390 Jonathan Ellerby: That it was a part of their finally turning it around. Now
00:44:24.710 --> 00:44:30.429 Jonathan Ellerby: we don't need to spend too much time on the analysis, some might say so was that because when you hit rock bottom.
00:44:30.790 --> 00:44:31.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:44:31.180 --> 00:44:40.920 Jonathan Ellerby: You, just you just surrender, and you're willing for anything to happen. Is it, Grace, that there's another dimension of reality that that does actually want good things for us
00:44:41.540 --> 00:44:43.109 Jonathan Ellerby: and intervenes.
00:44:43.310 --> 00:44:54.899 Jonathan Ellerby: Is it something about the brain being in such a state of overwhelm that it's flooded? And we actually enter a gamma state in which all hemispheres and regions are co-communicating.
00:44:55.290 --> 00:44:57.510 Jonathan Ellerby: I would say it could be all those things.
00:44:57.510 --> 00:44:59.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:01.120 --> 00:45:09.199 Jonathan Ellerby: But I but but I did want to say that quickly, that the content of spiritual experiences can also not always be positive.
00:45:09.819 --> 00:45:10.439 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:28.810 Jonathan Ellerby: And I wanted to make sure I mentioned that for people, because sometimes people think, Oh, you know, it's always angels, and it's always blessings. It's always skipping through flowers. No, sometimes it can be existentially terrifying, and that that, I think more often than not has to do with
00:45:29.530 --> 00:45:36.709 Jonathan Ellerby: worldview of the person having experience. They don't. They don't have a way to make sense of what they're seeing. So it's terrifying.
00:45:36.900 --> 00:45:37.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But.
00:45:37.590 --> 00:45:44.190 Jonathan Ellerby: But but yes, people can see and feel scary things in a spiritual experience. So getting support.
00:45:44.330 --> 00:45:48.470 Jonathan Ellerby: talking to people about it, researching your experience. It's all important.
00:45:48.670 --> 00:46:17.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, wonderful, wonderful. Okay, Dr. Jonathan, we need to take just a quick break. And when we come back I actually want to ask you about sort of, you know you have these sort of 7 gateways. I just want to maybe kind of briefly touch upon one or 2 of them that you. You know the chapters of your book. And then I hopefully, we have time before the end to talk about sort of spiritual bypassing.
00:46:18.450 --> 00:46:26.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: because a spiritual experience can be used sometimes in not such a positive or supportive way. Right.
00:46:26.290 --> 00:46:28.420 Jonathan Ellerby: Absolutely, absolutely.
00:46:28.420 --> 00:46:43.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We're speaking this hour with Dr. Jonathan Ellerby, author of the book, the 7 Gateways of spiritual Experience. And we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:48:23.520 --> 00:48:25.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back
00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:54.499 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to the conscious. Consult now awakening humanity. So, Dr. Ellerby, in your book you have it kind of divided up into a little more than 7 chapters. But you talk about the experience of truth and beauty, the experience of ordinary magic, the experience of the spirit world, the experience of the cosmic self, of divine energy, of formless spirit, of pure consciousness. The conclusion is the heart of one and all.
00:48:54.710 --> 00:49:03.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and so maybe let's just dive into like cosmic self and pure consciousness.
00:49:04.070 --> 00:49:05.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You talk about.
00:49:05.422 --> 00:49:08.100 Jonathan Ellerby: You picked some whoppers to talk about.
00:49:08.100 --> 00:49:15.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I like to go deep. We don't have also a lot of time. We've only got about, you know, 12 min left to the show.
00:49:16.200 --> 00:49:24.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What do you mean by these things as gateways? And how can someone recognize if that's part of it?
00:49:25.590 --> 00:49:29.639 Jonathan Ellerby: Okay. So trying to be brief, for for the show.
00:49:30.160 --> 00:49:37.280 Jonathan Ellerby: the word gateway in the title may have a misleading quality to it in the sense that
00:49:37.590 --> 00:49:44.649 Jonathan Ellerby: you know I've written a book about spiritual practices, and if you think of a gateway as the vehicle to get somewhere.
00:49:44.990 --> 00:49:50.330 Jonathan Ellerby: that's less what this book is about, although it does highlight vehicles to get there.
00:49:51.420 --> 00:50:00.620 Jonathan Ellerby: However, you know, the publisher felt gateway was important, because what what it signifies is that even though they are 7 different
00:50:00.810 --> 00:50:16.280 Jonathan Ellerby: types of experience. They're all bringing you into spirit. They're all bringing you into the spiritual world. They're all bringing you into an altered state, no matter how different they are. And interestingly, the 2 you picked are
00:50:16.760 --> 00:50:31.569 Jonathan Ellerby: distinctly and really, interestingly different, because the experience of pure pure consciousness has been studied for for generations, and it is the experience of an expansive awareness
00:50:31.740 --> 00:50:38.700 Jonathan Ellerby: that is so unified that there is no content at all.
00:50:39.530 --> 00:50:43.899 Jonathan Ellerby: There is arguably no perception of subject and object.
00:50:44.830 --> 00:50:53.320 Jonathan Ellerby: That that this is what, particularly in the Eastern traditions they point to as moments of of, you know, pure awakening.
00:50:53.690 --> 00:51:07.090 Jonathan Ellerby: So everything is one thing to the point where nothing right, because there's no thing when all things are one, including the observer. On the other hand, the experience of the cosmic self is very much
00:51:07.090 --> 00:51:36.570 Jonathan Ellerby: active and visual, and it's usually in a dream or an out of body experience something like that where we are perceiving ourselves or having a vision of ourselves as though we were more than our normal human self. It might be a dream of flying. It might be a vision of ourselves moving energy. It's it's quite literally an experience of a self that feels cosmic and beyond the limits and confines of the daily of the daily form.
00:51:37.098 --> 00:51:38.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So the experience of.
00:51:38.650 --> 00:51:39.730 Jonathan Ellerby: Content, rich.
00:51:39.730 --> 00:51:53.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, gotcha gotcha. So so the experience of of pure consciousness. It's almost like oneness. I've heard it, for example, like people who've who've tried 5 meo. Dmt.
00:51:53.420 --> 00:52:09.099 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that there's that complete loss of self, or they call it an ego death. And then all you feel is just the energy and the oneness, and like you say that there's not necessarily any consciousness to it. But it's just this feeling of joy.
00:52:09.720 --> 00:52:15.569 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: However, afterwards we come back, and I've had this experience of just you come back and then.
00:52:15.810 --> 00:52:26.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like for a while, like things just seem to work out everything like you're at this operating at this higher frequency, I'd almost say, but over time it's sort of
00:52:26.570 --> 00:52:32.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: it, it it dissipates and dissipates. And then suddenly, you're like back in the world, and like
00:52:32.890 --> 00:52:36.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you've you've kind of lost that feeling. So so
00:52:38.230 --> 00:52:41.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: are there things we can do to kind of?
00:52:42.050 --> 00:52:50.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We have that momentary experience. Then we come back and we're back in sort of our normal day-to-day world, right? And and the the
00:52:50.710 --> 00:52:53.189 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the natural drive is okay, how do I
00:52:53.640 --> 00:53:08.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: get get back to that? Or at least move in that direction like I'm not gonna say, even get back to that, because we can't live if we're constantly in that state, but at least lean in that direction, feel a little something that supports us in that way.
00:53:09.700 --> 00:53:32.730 Jonathan Ellerby: Yeah, I actually have a great analogy that I didn't always use, because it didn't even I couldn't even relate to it. But I have a son, a teenage son who plays football, and he's also a huge fan of football, and the and the simple analogy I would give for people when you have a powerful experience, keep the game alive, and what I mean by that is, think about the way a fan of any sport
00:53:32.770 --> 00:53:43.650 Jonathan Ellerby: keeps the game alive between games. What do they do? They read about it? They listen to it, they talk to other people about it. They surround themselves with symbols and reminders of it.
00:53:43.830 --> 00:53:46.019 Jonathan Ellerby: I mean, it's actually a phenomenal
00:53:46.360 --> 00:53:56.519 Jonathan Ellerby: analogy, but very demonstrative of what people can do. So if you had a powerful experience, write about it. Talk about it, read about other people who've had those experiences.
00:53:57.050 --> 00:54:04.289 Jonathan Ellerby: surround yourself with reminders of its lessons or its feelings. Keep keep it alive, and and
00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:11.139 Jonathan Ellerby: yes, it may potentiate another experience or or not. Some most people only have
00:54:11.600 --> 00:54:15.330 Jonathan Ellerby: very dramatic spiritual experiences a few times in a life.
00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:19.659 Jonathan Ellerby: you know, in the spectrum of spiritual experiences. Some can happen every day.
00:54:20.160 --> 00:54:24.750 Jonathan Ellerby: And then others are, are really once a lifetime, and some some are not even
00:54:24.970 --> 00:54:29.849 Jonathan Ellerby: that common. It would be 1 1 in a hundred people that might have that experience.
00:54:29.850 --> 00:54:30.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:54:30.340 --> 00:54:44.299 Jonathan Ellerby: Although I will admit. Psychedelics, I think, are potentiating the capacity for more people to have more dramatic spiritual experiences. But they need to keep the game alive. They need a healthy context, or what happens is spiritual bypassing.
00:54:44.720 --> 00:54:45.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:54:45.520 --> 00:54:58.110 Jonathan Ellerby: Which is that we take the experience of feeling, infinite feeling connected, seeing amazing things, thinking we've learned something powerful and then making the assumption
00:54:59.560 --> 00:55:01.460 Jonathan Ellerby: like we're done with our.
00:55:01.460 --> 00:55:01.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:55:01.940 --> 00:55:31.130 Jonathan Ellerby: Healing work. We're done with our psychological work. We're better than other people. Now, I'm I'm generalizing a broad number of ways that we might bypass. But we, we stop doing the work right. We we feel like, just because we can be more spiritual, or we've connected to something more spiritual that. Now, you know, it's our partner that's wrong, or it's our job that's wrong, or we don't need to look at our shadow. So the term spiritual bypass, you know, which is a whole. Conversation in itself.
00:55:31.680 --> 00:55:37.079 Jonathan Ellerby: is really, when we use spiritual philosophy or experience or practice, not
00:55:37.540 --> 00:55:47.560 Jonathan Ellerby: to face our reality, not to integrate the changes. And that's the last thing I would say about it is, it is true that not only can we use the content
00:55:47.770 --> 00:55:55.869 Jonathan Ellerby: of spiritual experiences or spiritual bypass. Sometimes people pursue spiritual experiences as a bypass to life.
00:55:55.920 --> 00:56:19.810 Jonathan Ellerby: So we run off to the retreat center and we never want to come home. We? We are constantly surrounding ourselves with Yoga, or meditation, or church, or whatever it is, and we're just literally avoiding dealing with real life. You might be going to a wholesome place, and I'll say I've done it myself, you know very easy to feel good about investing in spiritual life and spiritual work. But if you're not
00:56:20.770 --> 00:56:23.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Applying it in your day-to-day world.
00:56:23.360 --> 00:56:24.040 Jonathan Ellerby: Correct.
00:56:24.040 --> 00:56:40.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, I used to study with different spiritual teachers and groups that were all about ascension and moving up and like kind of escaping this world in a sense. But through my experiences over the last 10 and a half, 11 years or so, I've really come to believe that
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:55.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that actually the opposite is true that we're not here to escape this life. We're here to bring these higher spiritual energies and descend them into life so that we can make the world a better place for everyone to live in.
00:56:55.625 --> 00:57:11.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: If we just got a minute or 2. But do you have any feeling for, like the purpose behind these these spiritual experiences? Is it to escape this world, to evolve beyond this world? Or is it to affect this world in a more positive way?
00:57:11.750 --> 00:57:20.130 Jonathan Ellerby: Yeah, thank you. That's such an important question to end on. It is, I think, the last chapter. So if anyone's going to a bookstore to just cheat.
00:57:23.250 --> 00:57:33.399 Jonathan Ellerby: Some of the experiences are experiences of spiritual eminence which means spirit in the world, and some are experience of spiritual transcendence which means you feel like you've escaped the world.
00:57:33.520 --> 00:57:36.249 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The mistake is to focus on escape.
00:57:36.450 --> 00:57:58.210 Jonathan Ellerby: Or idealizing life, because it's really not about either. Those are phenomenas of sensation, so to speak. It's the content that matters. And what I think, is important about all the spiritual experiences is that they do point us towards principles of healthy living, of coexistence, of
00:57:58.240 --> 00:58:07.889 Jonathan Ellerby: the importance of compassion and radical acceptance and creativity, and and the simple awareness
00:58:08.180 --> 00:58:16.160 Jonathan Ellerby: that we live in a universe that is abundant with love and wisdom. But we often forget
00:58:16.410 --> 00:58:21.160 Jonathan Ellerby: to look for it. We forget to apply it. We forget to trust it.
00:58:21.530 --> 00:58:24.230 Jonathan Ellerby: So I think it's it. They are always
00:58:24.870 --> 00:58:28.090 Jonathan Ellerby: potent opportunities to enrich a life
00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:43.899 Jonathan Ellerby: and our world, and I happen to believe, as an interesting note to end on, that there is a kind of whatever you might say, spiritual or cosmic force that is pressing into our reality and wanting us to to feel these things.
00:58:44.350 --> 00:58:48.059 Jonathan Ellerby: It's very cliche. But to make the world a better place.
00:58:48.300 --> 00:58:51.425 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
00:58:52.180 --> 00:59:06.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well. Dr. Jonathan, thank you for taking the time to come on the show. I know you're traveling, and and we had some technical challenges. But do you have any other books you're working on at the moment, and have you come back when you come out with another book?
00:59:06.950 --> 00:59:17.430 Jonathan Ellerby: Well, yeah, I actually, I have 2 things that I'm toying with right now. And and one is about this significant, the sort of radical significance of a social
00:59:18.560 --> 00:59:20.419 Jonathan Ellerby: return to Seoul.
00:59:20.843 --> 00:59:21.229 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: As a.
00:59:21.230 --> 00:59:25.890 Jonathan Ellerby: Concept of self, not something that's you know you believe in it or not.
00:59:26.040 --> 00:59:36.159 Jonathan Ellerby: but as a fundamental human quality, and that without that we cannot find wellness as individuals or society. This idea, that soul must be
00:59:36.160 --> 01:00:05.889 Jonathan Ellerby: reexamined, reclaimed, reintegrated, and re-understood. But I but I have to say that as I do that the thing that keeps pulling me a little bit, and we're only talking about fantasies at this point, because I'm always writing something. You know I'm also interested, though, at the interplay of psychology and spirituality. And and this kind of fine line between spiritual growth and spiritual bypass. And I've I've learned about that in my own life, and I've learned about it the hard way, and I'd like to explore that with other people, the way our shadows
01:00:05.990 --> 01:00:07.819 Jonathan Ellerby: are helped and hurt
01:00:08.381 --> 01:00:17.220 Jonathan Ellerby: by our spiritual journeys, and ultimately it. It is a process of soul awakening and soul recognition and soul integration.
01:00:17.450 --> 01:00:23.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful wonderful. Well, thank you. We'll we'll definitely have to find a time in the future for you to come back.
01:00:23.500 --> 01:00:24.830 Jonathan Ellerby: Thank you. And yes.
01:00:25.130 --> 01:00:29.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And also thank you for having me on your show. What's the title of your podcast.
01:00:29.680 --> 01:00:35.499 Jonathan Ellerby: Yes. Well, so people can look it up now as the bone collectors.
01:00:35.500 --> 01:00:36.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The bone collectors.
01:00:36.450 --> 01:00:44.890 Jonathan Ellerby: And it was previously the Jonathan Ellerby. Podcast, but but your episode was with the Jonathan, Ellerby, Podcast.
01:00:45.000 --> 01:01:00.419 Jonathan Ellerby: or No no, it was actually you were you got into the new batch? Yeah. So people will see that in the bone collectors. Yeah, it's it's good. It's a really great interview. By the way. Thank you. And yeah. So I hope people will listen to you. There.
01:01:00.420 --> 01:01:10.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, thank you. I hope so, too. Again, Dr. Jonathan Ellaby, author of the book, The 7 Gateways of Spiritual Experience. Thank you so much. Dr. Jonathan.
01:01:10.870 --> 01:01:12.419 Jonathan Ellerby: Yeah, thank you. Brother.
01:01:12.420 --> 01:01:22.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in each week. I really appreciate your support, please. If if you enjoyed this interview. Please share it with your friends, your family.
01:01:23.180 --> 01:01:37.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and sign up, and don't forget. If you missed any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on talk, radio dot, Nyc on social media and on all the major podcasting platforms. Thank you. All for tuning in. We will talk to you all next week.
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