Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
Do you only give performance feedback once a year as a “feedback sandwich” or even avoid it all together? Are you holding back important positive and critical feedback from team members? If so, you and your team are likely underperforming. Learn science-backed ways to provide effective, constructive employee feedback so it lands well and elevates your performance and that of your team.
WHAT YOU WILL LEARN:
Many of us have a love-hate relationship with performance discussions. Feedback giving and receiving is critical to your organizational success. Today, we’l be talking with Dr. Sarah Porter on how to toss that once-a-year "feedback sandwich" away and shift the method, frequency, and framing of your feedback to embodies true leadership, transform workplace relationships, and elevate performance by a whopping 36%.
As a professor, therapist, and avid consumer of psychological research, Dr. Porter will help you give better feedback upward, downward, and peer-to-peer at work. We'll discuss how to shift your next opportunity for offering feedback from something you dread to a powerful catalyst for growth and engagement. Your team's potential is waiting to be unlocked.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Dr. Sarah Porter is a consulting psychologist in Texas who is on a mission to make our workplaces happier, healthier, and – in turn – higher performing. She is a sought-after keynote speaker and workshop facilitator who translates the latest social science into strategies that improve individual and team well-being within organizations large and small, from Fortune 500 companies to scrappy startups. She is currently at work on her first book – The Musts of Trust – all about how our behaviors can foster or fracture trust with our colleagues. A Stanford alum with a PhD from UC Santa Barbara, Dr. Porter has caught the attention of national media, including Forbes, been published in peer-reviewed research journals, and received multiple accolades for her innovation and excellence in service delivery, including the ACPA Early Career Achievement Award.
With a record of accomplishment as a management consultant, college professor, and therapist, Dr. Porter brings a unique perspective to her work: she understands the business need for soft skills development and the deeply personal impact that core skill-building can have on each of our lives. As an extrovert with a dash of nerd, she enjoys weaving the head and the heart together in every talk she gives
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LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
www.gotowerscope.com
www.linkedin.com/in/drsarahporter
https://www.instagram.com/drsarahporter/
https://www.drsarahporter.com/
In this episode of The Hard Skills, Dr. Mira Brancu dives into the challenges of performance feedback with guest Dr. Sarah Porter, a business psychologist dedicated to improving workplace trust and well-being. They discuss how feedback, often seen as a source of tension, can instead be reframed as an act of service that fosters deeper connections, engagement, and professional growth. Highlighting the shift from outdated, efficiency-focused evaluations to a more developmental, trust-based approach, they explore how effective feedback can align personal and organizational goals to create high-performing, people-centric workplaces.
In this segment, Dr. Mira Brancu and Dr. Sarah Porter explore why feedback often feels clunky, even for well-intentioned leaders. Dr. Porter highlights the common mistake of focusing on past missteps instead of framing feedback around future goals and impact, making it more constructive and motivating. She also introduces a research-backed approach—the "Meat and 3" method—which starts with critique followed by three strengths, ensuring feedback is both performance-enhancing and relationship-building.
Dr. Mira Brancu and Dr. Sarah Porter tackle the challenges of managing defensiveness and emotions in feedback conversations. Dr. Porter introduces techniques such as the “micro-yes” to prime recipients for feedback and “wise feedback” to inspire performance while building trust. They also discuss the importance of asking for clear, actionable feedback, addressing communication gaps, and ensuring feedback is a continuous two-way dialogue that strengthens leadership presence and team cohesion.
In the final segment, Dr. Mira Brancu and Dr. Sarah Porter focus on practical ways for leaders to build strong feedback habits without feeling overwhelmed. They emphasize starting small, practicing structured techniques like the "Meat and 3," and embedding feedback into team culture to normalize open, constructive conversations. Listeners are encouraged to implement just one strategy, experiment with it, and share their experiences as they refine their feedback skills to enhance leadership effectiveness and workplace trust.
00:00:51.870 --> 00:01:05.440 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the most challenging soft skills required to navigate today's leadership complexities and tomorrow's unknowns. I'm your host, Dr. Mira Branku.
00:01:05.780 --> 00:01:07.910 Mira Brancu: All right. Tell me the truth.
00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:16.000 Mira Brancu: Do you only give performance feedback once a year as a feedback crap sandwich, or even avoid it altogether.
00:01:16.530 --> 00:01:21.600 Mira Brancu: Many of us have a love-hate relationships with performance discussions.
00:01:22.030 --> 00:01:28.970 Mira Brancu: If you're not a supervisor, it doesn't matter. Feedback giving and receiving is critical to your organizational success.
00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:36.270 Mira Brancu: and today we'll be talking with Dr. Sarah Porter on how to toss that gross feedback sandwich away
00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:44.239 Mira Brancu: and shift the method, frequency and framing of your feedback to transform workplace relationships and elevate performance.
00:01:44.360 --> 00:01:52.070 Mira Brancu: It's a perfect focus for our season. 6, which is all about positive politics, right? Proactive politics.
00:01:53.009 --> 00:01:53.699 Mira Brancu: So
00:01:53.950 --> 00:02:08.880 Mira Brancu: also, if you stick around to the end, I'll also share 2 new special free resources. Yeah, I said, free around feedback giving and receiving one is the feedback readiness checklist.
00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:18.979 Mira Brancu: and the other is 4 models of giving feedback. Both are from my millennials workbook for navigating workplace politics. I will share that at the end. But
00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:22.999 Mira Brancu: right now I really want to introduce to you our guest.
00:02:23.300 --> 00:02:36.899 Mira Brancu: Dr. Sarah Porter, because she is an expert in this. She's a business consulting psychologist, a college professor and therapist who's on a mission to make our workplaces happier, healthier, and in turn higher performing.
00:02:37.190 --> 00:02:43.790 Mira Brancu: She is currently at work on her 1st book, The Musts of Trust.
00:02:44.650 --> 00:03:06.899 Mira Brancu: You gotta you gotta trademark that one. The must of trust all about how our behaviors can foster or Fracture Trust with our colleagues. Dr. Porter is a Stanford alum. She has a Phd. From Uc. Santa Barbara, and received the Acpa early career achievement award welcome and great to have you on the show, Sarah.
00:03:07.420 --> 00:03:10.890 Sarah Porter, PhD: Thank you so much for having me, Mira. It's a pleasure to be here today.
00:03:11.070 --> 00:03:27.089 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So I started off with talking about the feedback crap sandwich and how people avoid it. And all of that stuff. Why is it so hard? Why are people avoiding it? Why are people sort of shying away? Or why do we have like this love, hate relationship with it?
00:03:27.770 --> 00:03:54.300 Sarah Porter, PhD: You know, I think it all boils down to the fact that we humans are social creatures who crave connection. And so what happens is, with the rare exception, we try to avoid conflict in order to preserve our relationships, and in our minds we start to conflate feedback with conflict which often comes from being on the receiving end of some ham-handed critiques.
00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:54.780 Mira Brancu: That.
00:03:54.780 --> 00:04:04.279 Sarah Porter, PhD: Felt like a threat to our sense of self that created friction or disconnection in that relationship, whether it's a work relationship or a home one.
00:04:04.350 --> 00:04:29.950 Sarah Porter, PhD: And so we tend to avoid these sorts of conversations, and even those where we're given praise, we don't always walk out of them feeling particularly seen, because maybe they are emphasizing something that you don't see as your biggest strength. And you're thinking, huh! I feel like they missed the mark. They don't really know who I am, which makes me think of the time that I was told that my number one best strength was that I was perky.
00:04:30.370 --> 00:04:54.420 Sarah Porter, PhD: didn't love that didn't feel like they fully saw me. And so I realized, you know, we find this challenging. But my hope is that we can reframe free feedback as an act of service toward one another. I think of it really, if it's done well, as an act of caring, which is something we're in desperate need of. I was just reading a statistic that over 60% of us
00:04:54.420 --> 00:05:18.760 Sarah Porter, PhD: don't feel cared for in our workplace by our colleagues or our bosses. And so we really need this. And ultimately, I think, feedback can become a 2 way conversation that actually deepens our connections. And you know, you mentioned some people are like, I don't need to think about feedback, because I'm not in a formal evaluative role. I would argue that feedback should be frequent
00:05:18.760 --> 00:05:33.750 Sarah Porter, PhD: and the purview of every single one of us, regardless of our role or our title. If we can create that sort of robust culture of feedback, we're not going to avoid it so much. And we're actually going to create a lot more trust with one another.
00:05:34.070 --> 00:05:35.223 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I
00:05:36.950 --> 00:05:45.120 Mira Brancu: if you were to imagine what one thing you want people to leave this conversation with
00:05:45.380 --> 00:05:57.020 Mira Brancu: my guess would be to reframe feedback like you said as an act of service or of caring. But I'm I'm taking a swing here. What do you want people to leave with what is your hope?
00:05:57.020 --> 00:06:22.849 Sarah Porter, PhD: I mean that really is it? It's an act of service and act of caring, and it's 1 that every single one of us in the workplace has a responsibility to do so. We're not just in the receiving posture. We're also in the giving posture. Whether that's peer to peer, whether that is downward to our reports, or whether that's upward to our managers. It really is our responsibility to model what we want to receive.
00:06:23.280 --> 00:06:33.949 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And you know, 1st of all, one of the things that I appreciate is that you included an example of positive feedback also being problematic. So like it's, it's not just about
00:06:34.170 --> 00:06:45.919 Mira Brancu: negative critiques, and that going wrong, any kind of feedback, including positive feedback, can also go wrong. And what I'm pulling from. What you're already saying is that
00:06:46.810 --> 00:06:53.545 Mira Brancu: it's about when you, when you actually give feedback from a place of caring, you're actually paying attention.
00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:54.290 Sarah Porter, PhD: Yeah.
00:06:54.290 --> 00:06:56.770 Mira Brancu: You know, right?
00:06:56.770 --> 00:07:04.350 Mira Brancu: 2 people need to be successful instead of let me find a way to explain how this person failed.
00:07:04.710 --> 00:07:33.509 Sarah Porter, PhD: Exactly, or let me just move through this and kind of slog through it. This annual drudgery of we've got to do. An Eval maybe didn't sit down and do the homework to prepare for it maybe didn't consider what this person's career goals are maybe didn't kind of collect examples to pull from. So I think there's a lot of reasons why I can feel like drudgery, but it doesn't have to. If you really look at it as a way to show empathy, and caring toward one another.
00:07:33.780 --> 00:07:34.250 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:07:34.250 --> 00:07:36.199 Sarah Porter, PhD: And that includes giving tough feedback.
00:07:36.380 --> 00:07:47.509 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And now, taking that a step further, you know, you're starting to sort of connect it to a place of caring. And I know you also see this as a workplace, wellbeing
00:07:47.780 --> 00:07:54.420 Mira Brancu: mechanism. So I'm super curious to hear how you connect feedback giving with workplace, well-being.
00:07:54.420 --> 00:08:19.390 Sarah Porter, PhD: You know, there's a couple of things I would say that the 2 are really inextricably linked. There is a lot of research to back up. The gut instinct I had when I started talking about this with my clients, whether in therapy or organizations, whom I'm helping, and what I've come to know is that feedback is directly connected with the level of trust within an organization.
00:08:19.390 --> 00:08:35.219 Sarah Porter, PhD: the level of employee engagement. We see its impact on team cohesion and creativity. And so what I always start with when I think about this, because it often gets people's ears perked up is, you probably know this, Mira. I'm sure many of your listeners know this
00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:59.800 Sarah Porter, PhD: employee engagement has been pretty abysmal and holding steady at around a 32. In fact, the newest research I saw today was a 31% engagement level across industry across our country. And what we know is one way to move that engagement needle up is with really frequent, well delivered feedback. There's actually a study done a few years ago
00:08:59.800 --> 00:09:24.259 Sarah Porter, PhD: that, I think, is so compelling 69% of employees whose managers sit down with them to collaborate on goals, and then regularly check in with them about how they're progressing, how their performance is, what they're seeing they are engaged, and that number plummets to only 8% amongst the folks who aren't getting that regular feedback
00:09:24.260 --> 00:09:36.480 Sarah Porter, PhD: from their manager. So I think this speaks to engagement, which is all about being kind of excited and willing to show up each day, which is certainly a wellness indicator. I also see this come up with teams.
00:09:36.480 --> 00:10:00.680 Sarah Porter, PhD: We know that when teams are able to give one another feedback peer to peer, they are much closer when we measure closeness or cohesion, they're more creative. And they're more innovative. And when we can bring creativity into our work, our well-being, our motivation, all of that source. So I really see these as in lockstep with one another, and all of this has that underlying piece of
00:10:00.680 --> 00:10:13.649 Sarah Porter, PhD: when we're able to give and receive feedback, it's an indicator of trust, and it's also a deepener of trust, which, again, trust is a major kind of propellant for well-being in the workplace.
00:10:13.830 --> 00:10:20.810 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah. You know, I am starting to wonder as I'm talking with you, if some of this is like helping people shift
00:10:20.990 --> 00:10:46.660 Mira Brancu: from where we started in the work world when we hit the Industrial Revolution right? Like when you hit the Industrial Revolution, it's all about assembly Belt efficiency, productivity. And so, therefore the feedback is all about. Are you fast enough? Are you quick enough? Are you missing something? Did you make a mistake that caused the assembly line to stop, you know. Stop the line, you know those kinds of things, and that
00:10:47.137 --> 00:10:50.529 Mira Brancu: just hyper focuses in on what you did wrong.
00:10:50.650 --> 00:11:19.560 Mira Brancu: And these days we're hearing more and more from the newer generations. Starting with, I would say, partly millennials. And then also definitely, Gen. Z. That what they're looking for in a workplace is no longer just like a place to work, and you sit there loyal for 20 years. It's a place to grow. It's a place to find a mentor who can grow and develop you. And they're looking for the mentorship. They're looking for meaning they're looking for purpose.
00:11:19.610 --> 00:11:21.050 Mira Brancu: And I feel like
00:11:22.450 --> 00:11:32.060 Mira Brancu: If they're looking for that, then it's it's ripe for good, healthy feedback to develop people. Am I wrong in this? Like as I'm thinking about this.
00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.390 Sarah Porter, PhD: You are spot on Mira. It's like we're mind, Melding right now.
00:11:35.810 --> 00:12:00.799 Sarah Porter, PhD: You know, it's funny. As you talked about the Industrial Revolution. I think about being a cog in the wheel right, almost literally, and we don't like to feel like cogs. And certainly younger generations coming up in the workplace do not want to feel like cogs. We want to be recognized for our unique contributions. Even if they're not perfect, like, it's okay to tell somebody, hey? We could really work on XY or Z, so it doesn't have to all
00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:21.770 Sarah Porter, PhD: be sunshine and roses. But we need to convey that we care about you. We care about your career growth. We care about your career development and we care about who you are. As a person, right? We deeply value connection. As you said, we deeply value meaning and purpose in our work, and if we're not giving feedback, it's hard for people to anchor into that.
00:12:21.770 --> 00:12:30.320 Mira Brancu: Yeah. I also wonder. You mentioned something that that sort of perked another idea which is
00:12:30.988 --> 00:12:40.700 Mira Brancu: meeting together with your manager talking about goals and then meeting on a regular basis to review those goals. And I I feel like sometimes
00:12:41.620 --> 00:13:02.459 Mira Brancu: managers and leaders separate an individual's personal professional goals from the organizational goals, and therefore there isn't that sort of like direct connection, like what you want could also meet our needs. Let's find a way to support each other and meeting organizational goals as well as your professional goals.
00:13:02.850 --> 00:13:04.870 Mira Brancu: I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that.
00:13:05.060 --> 00:13:28.769 Sarah Porter, PhD: It doesn't have to be an or it can absolutely be an and and I think the and is where the power is right. If you can basically make a case for how your individual goals connect to our team goals to the organizational goals that's going to keep people retained right when we're losing people who are leaving by attrition that's going to keep folks locked in
00:13:28.770 --> 00:13:42.610 Sarah Porter, PhD: that's going to help folks feel like they are contributing to something greater than themselves, while also attending to their own needs. And that really is kind of the secret sauce of well done feedback is that you make those connections with folks.
00:13:42.750 --> 00:13:44.130 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely.
00:13:45.180 --> 00:13:50.520 Mira Brancu: we're reaching an ad break. And I'm starting to think that after the ad break, what I'd love to hear is like.
00:13:51.430 --> 00:14:19.040 Mira Brancu: There are lots of managers and leaders who have read a million feedback books. They want to do well, they're trying their best to attempt to provide feedback, but things still sort of go awry, or it still feels clunky. So there's clearly like some kind of gap, something missing. And I would love when we get back from the ad break to hear more about what are the most common challenges or mistakes or pitfalls that you see, when people try
00:14:19.230 --> 00:14:32.580 Mira Brancu: to do the right sort of feedback giving and receiving. But something goes awry. I'd love to hear, like any client experiences or things that you've seen as as common. You are listening to the
00:14:32.780 --> 00:14:57.460 Mira Brancu: hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Bronco and our guest today, Dr. Sarah Porter, author of The Upcoming, The Must of Trust. We air on Tuesdays at 5 pm. Eastern at that time. At this time. If you're listening right now, you can find us live streaming on Linkedin, Youtube and several other locations at Talkradionyc, and we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.
00:16:39.430 --> 00:16:46.400 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Sarah Porter, talking to us about
00:16:46.580 --> 00:16:52.374 Mira Brancu: feedback feedback giving and receiving. So we were talking about
00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:54.290 Mira Brancu: Why.
00:16:54.450 --> 00:17:06.230 Mira Brancu: people find it so hard to give feedback, and what the importance of it is. So let's talk about like the pitfalls. I've read all the books I'm trying it out. It still feels clunky.
00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:07.609 Mira Brancu: Why.
00:17:08.560 --> 00:17:23.009 Sarah Porter, PhD: So, you know, I think, that we assume we'll just do intuitively know how to do this well, but it is a skill set that is learnable. And I think one of the 1st spots where people's feedback runs amok
00:17:23.150 --> 00:17:28.750 Sarah Porter, PhD: is, we tend to focus on past, on the past. And why
00:17:28.750 --> 00:17:53.209 Sarah Porter, PhD: versus the future. And what? And so let me unpack that a little bit. But really, what we know is that we often get bogged down in kind of excavating and analyzing someone's missteps like what contributed to that? Why did that happen in an attempt to protect them from doing it again? But I'll tell you. Science doesn't back that up. It turns out that spending that time
00:17:53.210 --> 00:18:18.019 Sarah Porter, PhD: I'm trying to sort out why something happened in the past doesn't affect future change. It's not especially motivating. And so one of the things we can do to really correct for that and give feedback that's effective with finesse is to actually focus on the impact, right? So on the what what happened and the impact it had, and then tie it into
00:18:18.020 --> 00:18:42.960 Sarah Porter, PhD: something that you actually referenced earlier. How this aligns with the recipients, goals like their future career, ambitions, vision, or goals. So I think about this as like rather than saying, you know, let's dig into what went wrong. So we don't have this happen again. We instead say, I want to share some thoughts with you about what I've seen happen recently, and the impact that had on our work stream.
00:18:42.960 --> 00:19:07.079 Sarah Porter, PhD: And I want us both to be thinking about how maybe addressing this will help set you up for that promotion. I know you're really wanting, or set you up to hit that ambitious sales target that you're itching to reach. We know that when you frame it towards someone's career future. That's when you have the biggest impact. That's when people's performance is boosted the most.
00:19:07.120 --> 00:19:13.549 Sarah Porter, PhD: And they feel seen and valued. So it's a win interpersonally, and it's a win in terms of productivity.
00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:32.510 Mira Brancu: That's beautiful. I might also add that it doesn't have to be like if the person isn't aiming for some career growth, right? Some people just want to be like better at what they're doing now, and not necessarily. And you can still do that. You can say, you know, I know that the most important thing to you is to deliver
00:19:32.834 --> 00:20:00.249 Mira Brancu: you know, a perfect product that you're really proud of, and I can also see that when that perfectionism takes over too much. You miss deadlines. And then all of a sudden, that delivery, you know, even if it's if it's perfect, it's going to not be well received because it hasn't come at the right time. So how can we sort of meet your needs of like creating the perfect product, but not taking over so much time that people are disappointed or angry in a different way. Right.
00:20:00.300 --> 00:20:29.040 Sarah Porter, PhD: I love that exactly. It's like I know how much you value putting out the best possible product imaginable. And I know that sometimes with that that leads to delays and unfortunately delays can undermine people's desire to collaborate with you, or they can undermine trust because they're not sure you'll deliver when you say you will, and I want you to feel good about putting out that best product. Let's figure out how to do that within the parameters of our system. I think that's a great, great example.
00:20:29.210 --> 00:20:36.860 Mira Brancu: I often call that the shadow side of your strength like 1st start. It's it's way better than the feedback sandwich. Right? Feedback sandwich is like
00:20:37.270 --> 00:20:51.619 Mira Brancu: 2 or 3 things that don't make sense together, you know, and and the sort of the shadow side of your strength is like, Oh, yeah, if I overdo that thing, then it backfires on me. It's still the same thing.
00:20:51.620 --> 00:20:53.470 Sarah Porter, PhD: Absolutely, absolutely.
00:20:53.470 --> 00:21:06.700 Mira Brancu: And I like yours. Yours is also like future focus. Right? You can't fix the past. It's done, it's and I really appreciate how how you I had never thought about how
00:21:07.454 --> 00:21:18.820 Mira Brancu: even though we learn like the past behavior predicts the future behavior. Right? You know, we don't really realize that just like
00:21:18.940 --> 00:21:27.050 Mira Brancu: addressing somebody's past behavior is gonna magically help them know what to do in the future right.
00:21:27.540 --> 00:21:51.569 Sarah Porter, PhD: That's exactly right. Exactly so sure we can look at past behavior. But the key is to figure out how like basically make the case for why we want to change it rather than figuring out what was the specific context. That's not that useful. We're not the best at doing that. As humans. Anyway, we're not that accurate, and it's not motivating. And so to me, knowing that feedback is meant to inspire and motivate
00:21:51.570 --> 00:22:02.840 Sarah Porter, PhD: change or amplification of your strengths. We don't need to go digging into something that went awry that we neither of us may be able to really get to the bottom of. It's just not time well spent.
00:22:02.840 --> 00:22:12.250 Mira Brancu: Now, speaking of not digging into the past, you are a therapist. Sometimes we dig into the past as therapist. Just understand why we're why we're here.
00:22:12.490 --> 00:22:12.730 Mira Brancu: How
00:22:12.730 --> 00:22:28.259 Mira Brancu: did this happen? Why do we have these mindsets? What perspective or lens are we bringing to it? And and I am still curious, even though you're not a big proponent of digging into the past in order to help, you know, provide helpful feedback.
00:22:28.783 --> 00:22:37.039 Mira Brancu: Is there anything that you have learned through your therapy work that does apply very well to feedback within work settings.
00:22:37.790 --> 00:22:54.400 Sarah Porter, PhD: For sure, you know. So I would say, if anyone's ever been to couples counseling some of my tips might sound familiar, because it turns out that the same things that get our hackles up in romantic relationships make us defensive and professional ones.
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:57.640 Mira Brancu: Wait what I know I know.
00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:03.810 Mira Brancu: Hold on, wait! Hold on! I'm still the same person at home, and I bring that person into work.
00:23:03.810 --> 00:23:31.999 Sarah Porter, PhD: We like to believe we can somehow, like bifurcate, split the 2 right. But really work relationships are relationships. 1st and foremost, the setting is secondary, which is why people like you and me. You know, we do this work as trained counseling or clinical psychologists. We can crosswalk so much of what we know from the therapy world into the workplace, because these are just relationships. And so I do teach people a couple of almost like
00:23:32.060 --> 00:23:51.639 Sarah Porter, PhD: linguistic hacks, more or less to help grease the wheels for a good conversation. You know the very obvious one is when you sit down with someone. The best way to really shut down the conversation from the jump is to start with that you and so don't do that instead lead with an I. You know you weren't prepared for the meeting.
00:23:51.640 --> 00:24:05.719 Sarah Porter, PhD: That's gonna get people really defensive. Whereas if you say I was feeling increasingly nervous during that meeting, when you kept looking to me to answer the questions of the customer that allows you to lead with the impact. Right? The why.
00:24:06.280 --> 00:24:10.320 Sarah Porter, PhD: and it allows them not to feel kind of like.
00:24:10.430 --> 00:24:12.560 Sarah Porter, PhD: painted with too broad a brush.
00:24:12.980 --> 00:24:34.269 Sarah Porter, PhD: And then I also talk to people about the use of the words always and never. I don't want to see those in a written or oral evaluation or feedback conversation, because what they do is they're a little bit too extreme, and it makes people feel backed into a corner, and when we're backed into a corner we just want to flee. We just want to get away.
00:24:34.270 --> 00:24:56.700 Sarah Porter, PhD: or the conversation gets derailed and we start talking about. Well, I'm not always tardy. I was on time 3 weeks ago. Thursday, right? And you end up having this conversation about exceptions missing the key point, and so I like to replace those with words like often in place of always rarely in place of never.
00:24:56.740 --> 00:25:19.770 Sarah Porter, PhD: And then one that I think comes up a lot, and I've even heard it. I believe in some of your previous episodes is, I like to say, I want to banish the but so people use, but when really a better option would be. And and I always like to think about an example of something like, I really appreciate your contributions to our team, but I need you to pick up the pace.
00:25:19.910 --> 00:25:43.779 Sarah Porter, PhD: What that but does is it negates everything that came before it? It wipes out that praise, whereas if you say I really appreciate your contributions to the team, and I'd like to see you pick up the pace. It allows you to have 2 things happening at the same time. 2 things can be true. And so I think, using some of that language will allow people to hear. Kind of pick up what you're putting down.
00:25:43.780 --> 00:25:54.800 Sarah Porter, PhD: so to speak. And these are all communication strategies taken from dialectical behavior therapy from some Cbt and from just some general communication skills that we teach in therapy.
00:25:55.180 --> 00:26:00.403 Mira Brancu: I love that, and I am wondering if your
00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:07.699 Mira Brancu: technique of the meat and 3 has anything to do with this and stuff.
00:26:08.560 --> 00:26:37.039 Sarah Porter, PhD: So you know it does. And what's interesting about it. So people talk about the feedback sandwich. Whenever I'm training folks or talking to folks about feedback. They're like, Yeah, this sandwich. I give a piece of praise. I give a critique, and then I close with a piece of praise, and I blanch, and the reason I blanch is because one, it's ubiquitous. Everybody does it, but it can feel really clunky and disingenuous, and I felt so validated when I looked at people even nerdier than I am.
00:26:37.040 --> 00:26:48.630 Sarah Porter, PhD: researchers who look at the sequencing of feedback, and they found that that critique or, excuse me, praise critique. Praise is the least effective order in which to deliver feedback.
00:26:48.630 --> 00:26:49.050 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:26:49.050 --> 00:27:07.890 Sarah Porter, PhD: And in fact, I've kind of extended that food metaphor and based on the research by those sequencing folks, and what I know from learning science and what I know from psychological science. We actually want to, of course, do the things to build the alliance first, st but then actually start with your critique
00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:33.679 Sarah Porter, PhD: and follow it with your 3 pieces of praise. So that's why I call it the meat and the 3. So that's actually the most effective order based on pretty recent research. If you do all critique or all praise, it helps performance, but it doesn't help the relationship. But if you start with the critique, and follow with the praise that does wonders for both performance and connection.
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:38.569 Mira Brancu: Tell me, would love to hear an example or 2 of this? What does it sound like?
00:27:38.570 --> 00:28:03.519 Sarah Porter, PhD: Yes. So what this sounds like is, you know. Of course you do your kind of alliance building, so you might say. You know, I'd love to sit down and talk to you. I know that you're really motivated to deepen your knowledge in this area, and so on to share some insights I have, and get your thoughts about how we can position you to make those goals a reality right? And so you might say something like I noticed that you missed a
00:28:03.520 --> 00:28:26.889 Sarah Porter, PhD: couple of key details and that attention to detail can get in the way of putting out a quality product. That being said, I know you're incredibly passionate, and if we can bring that passion, if we can bring that ability to relate and connect with other people, and maybe, even if we can bring the research skills I know you have to bear. I think we can get there. That's a meet and 3
00:28:27.010 --> 00:28:27.920 Sarah Porter, PhD: right there.
00:28:28.700 --> 00:28:31.440 Mira Brancu: I love it, love it! And what's.
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:44.159 Sarah Porter, PhD: Cool about it. I'll say, Mira, is that the 3 helps counterbalance our human bias for negativity. We hold on to critique, and we forget praise. So you really want to overload with praise over critique.
00:28:44.300 --> 00:28:49.300 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I mean, I was listening to you like pretending I was the person receiving. And I was like.
00:28:49.410 --> 00:29:03.770 Mira Brancu: you know, it starts with a little bit deflation. But then I was like, Oh, oh, oh, I feel built up now, like it really did work on me, and I'm not your employee, but, like I can totally feel it. I could experience it.
00:29:03.770 --> 00:29:08.019 Sarah Porter, PhD: And it's an act of care, right? It feels like an act of service and an act of caring.
00:29:08.190 --> 00:29:21.730 Mira Brancu: Absolutely absolutely. So. We're reaching another ad break. And I am curious. Let's say, when we come back from the ad break I want to hear more about your thoughts, on managing defensiveness
00:29:21.730 --> 00:29:50.849 Mira Brancu: and emotions in the feedback giving and receiving experience, even if you do it well, sometimes you experience that, and that might cause you to try to avoid giving feedback next time. So I would love your thoughts on that from therapy experience. Leadership, you know coaching, consulting experience as well. You are listening to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Sarah Porter, talking about feedback giving and receiving, and we will be right back in just a moment.
00:31:22.260 --> 00:31:29.679 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Braku and our guest today, Dr. Sarah Porter, talking about feedback.
00:31:29.790 --> 00:31:31.770 Mira Brancu: especially feedback giving.
00:31:32.040 --> 00:31:36.129 Mira Brancu: So. Let's say I've been
00:31:36.310 --> 00:31:42.909 Mira Brancu: trying to get better and practice giving feedback, and I feel like I've done a pretty good job as a leader.
00:31:43.210 --> 00:31:44.040 Mira Brancu: But
00:31:45.050 --> 00:31:48.030 Mira Brancu: I have an employee who gets kind of defensive.
00:31:48.866 --> 00:31:54.443 Mira Brancu: Maybe they get emotional about it. Maybe they deflect, you know.
00:31:56.410 --> 00:32:03.479 Mira Brancu: often. That will make me want to give them feedback less often. Right? It's it's a 2 way street
00:32:04.265 --> 00:32:06.009 Mira Brancu: is there anything that
00:32:06.120 --> 00:32:15.659 Mira Brancu: I should be doing, or could be doing differently or better, to try to manage the defensiveness whether it's in that person, or maybe in my reaction to it.
00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:39.899 Sarah Porter, PhD: Yeah, you know, I think this a lot of this boils down to that Alliance building, which again, is something we consider a lot in therapy, but has its applications in the workplace. So some of it is how you enter into the conversation, Leanne Renninger. She's a social psychologist. You may be familiar with her work. She talks about the micro. Yes, we, as humans, don't respond very well to surprise feedback.
00:32:39.900 --> 00:32:51.469 Sarah Porter, PhD: And so a way to get around that, knowing that I'm a big fan of not just formal but informal feedback is to ask for the micro. Yes, which sounds like this. Do you have a moment for me to give you my thoughts on this morning's meeting.
00:32:51.530 --> 00:33:02.269 Sarah Porter, PhD: People are going to say yes to that, but what it does is it actually primes their brain to listen and lowers defensiveness. So from the jump, you're already a step ahead.
00:33:02.320 --> 00:33:31.269 Sarah Porter, PhD: and then I think, as you're giving feedback, it can be really helpful to maybe even before starting. Say, you know, I want to share my thoughts with you, and I'd love to get your thoughts about how I'm doing with XY. Or Z. Making it an exchange. So people don't feel pigpiled on right, and that also lowers defensiveness. And then probably one of my favorite tricks which is not my own David Yeager. He's a professor at the University of Texas.
00:33:31.270 --> 00:33:33.610 Sarah Porter, PhD: coined this term wise feedback.
00:33:33.610 --> 00:33:44.440 Sarah Porter, PhD: and this is where, when you are giving feedback to someone you want to see them really do better than how they've been doing. You go into it, and you say something like this.
00:33:44.440 --> 00:34:08.019 Sarah Porter, PhD: I know that I have really high expectations, or I know that I count on you to perform at a really high level, or I have high standards. So you acknowledge that it's kind of a 1, 2 punch of inspiration, and then you follow it with, and I have full belief in your ability to reach or surpass my expectations when you provide that pairing.
00:34:08.070 --> 00:34:15.549 Sarah Porter, PhD: what that does is it actually not only boosts performance by 40%, believe it or not, which is unheard of in social science.
00:34:15.870 --> 00:34:27.539 Sarah Porter, PhD: but it also deepens trust between you and the recipient. And so that's a great way again to stop some of that defensiveness before it takes hold.
00:34:27.870 --> 00:34:36.939 Mira Brancu: Yeah, those are fantastic examples and recommendations. I have now another different kind of scenario.
00:34:37.409 --> 00:35:06.449 Mira Brancu: What about people who are great at receiving feedback. Yes, yes, that's great. Yes, definitely. You're right. You're right. I really need to improve in that, you know, but they never improve. And you know, as as a manager, you know of that person. You're likely to be like, what's the point of continuing to give the feedback, because this person clearly can't or won't, or whatever. What would you say in those situations?
00:35:06.450 --> 00:35:25.920 Sarah Porter, PhD: I'm tired of banging the same drum. It's not going well, right? You know. Yeah, I think that's a it's a valid concern. I think a couple of things come to mind one. I'd want to make sure that you're not falling prey to something that we psychologists call the illusion of transparency. We often think
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:43.060 Sarah Porter, PhD: that we are being clearer in our communication of feedback than we are. And so sometimes this is really just getting more concrete in the feedback you give, and so a great way to do that is to look out for what some people call blur words. I call them fuzzy words.
00:35:43.060 --> 00:36:06.880 Sarah Porter, PhD: These are words that might mean one thing to me, and mean something different to you, Mira, and something different to your listeners, and I go in saying I've just told them that they have poor communication skills. But I think I'm clear, and they're taking away something very different, like, Oh, she's saying I'm not a good writer, and I'm thinking they're not great at the extemporaneous speaking right? And so my antidote or workaround for that
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:14.360 Sarah Porter, PhD: is, whenever you're providing an adjective, whether it's in writing or in speaking and feedback
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:16.050 Sarah Porter, PhD: back it up with an example.
00:36:16.120 --> 00:36:40.179 Sarah Porter, PhD: So, rather than saying something like, I so appreciate how proactive you are. Don't stop there. Proactive. That's an adjective. Okay, let me back it up. And so you might say something like, I really appreciate how proactive you were on this new software implementation, you saw an issue. You raised the red flag, reached out to the vendor and resolved it before launch that way. You're both really clear on what you're talking about.
00:36:40.550 --> 00:36:48.690 Sarah Porter, PhD: and that may solve some of it. It doesn't solve all of it. So sometimes people are good at listening.
00:36:48.860 --> 00:37:10.879 Sarah Porter, PhD: Well, hearing, but not listening might be the better way to say it. And one of the ways we miss that is, if we don't build in some pauses to do what I call kind of understanding checks in the conversation. Sometimes we're nervous to give feedback, so we just want to get it over with. And one of the most common things that we, as givers of feedback say, is, does that make sense?
00:37:10.930 --> 00:37:27.540 Sarah Porter, PhD: And what is someone going to say to that? No, no, they're going to say because they just want to exit stage. Right? They're like, Yup, I got it. I'm going to go instead. Ask an open, ended question. You know one that you can't answer with yes or no. Ask something like, What's your take on that.
00:37:27.600 --> 00:37:42.480 Sarah Porter, PhD: or what's your reaction to this one, or a great one for helping kind of figure out where some of the barriers to their change might be. What might I be missing in this? In this? You know idea that I've come across, or in this piece of feedback.
00:37:42.650 --> 00:37:51.089 Sarah Porter, PhD: And so when you do that, you can kind of suss out any miscommunication or roadblocks that you weren't aware of and correct them in the moment.
00:37:51.390 --> 00:38:16.959 Sarah Porter, PhD: and then you can even do something at the end of your conversation. I call it a temperature check, but it really is something we borrow from. You know I teach as well from education, which is an exit ticket question. This is a way to kind of assess at the end the emotional read of the room. And so you can say something like, you know, before we wrap today, I want to see what felt especially good or not. So good for you to hear.
00:38:17.160 --> 00:38:17.990 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:38:18.190 --> 00:38:42.429 Sarah Porter, PhD: I think that's a great way to kind of take the pulse, how they're feeling relationally, how much they've actually taken in what you said, and if we want to back that up with a little bit more of an overall content check, you can also ask something like, you know what are your like 3 biggest takeaways from our conversation to make sure that the key messages you wanted them to hear. They actually
00:38:42.430 --> 00:39:00.440 Sarah Porter, PhD: heard those. Those are what will be top of mind for them to work on, because sometimes people don't work on it because they don't realize that's the number one and 2 thing to work on. They're focusing on 5 and 6, and don't realize that they need to make this a priority. Those are a few thoughts. I'm sure there's other things. If we keep talking I'll think of more.
00:39:00.650 --> 00:39:11.789 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I think these are. These are fantastic. You know, another one that I'm thinking about is like, if you if you hoard all of your feedback, for you know one meeting.
00:39:11.930 --> 00:39:21.090 Mira Brancu: and then you spill it all out. Here's the 10 things I've been thinking about that we should talk about. What do you think they're gonna walk away from? They're gonna walk away only, like.
00:39:21.270 --> 00:39:26.679 Mira Brancu: Oh, my God, I'm doing a terrible job. But they probably didn't retain the large majority of what you actually said.
00:39:27.460 --> 00:39:48.369 Sarah Porter, PhD: Absolutely. They saw the forest, not the trees, and they're like, I don't even know I'm just going to walk away from this forest. It's too big and scary. There's actually research out there that tells us that the maximum number of pieces of feedback you should give in any given conversation is no more than 4. If you go past 4,
00:39:48.450 --> 00:40:11.640 Sarah Porter, PhD: we kind of go blank. We get overwhelmed, and we have trouble taking it in and doing something with it. So you never want to give more than 4 right? And really, this is a case for why, I think very regular feedback is more important. And it's actually what people want. There have been studies done. And you mentioned, like our younger millennials and our Gen. Z. Folks. They really want feedback on a weekly
00:40:11.640 --> 00:40:26.729 Sarah Porter, PhD: cadence on a weekly basis. And so, if you're giving feedback with that sort and that sort of rhythm, it's more likely to penetrate, you know, and it's more likely to keep it top of mind. So someone can really make some headway on fixing it, improving it, smoothing it out.
00:40:27.020 --> 00:40:37.800 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Now, speaking of which there there are at least, there is at least one other person in that room, and they have a responsibility to receive
00:40:37.970 --> 00:40:44.679 Mira Brancu: the feedback in the best way possible to make use of that feedback. Right? So, you know.
00:40:44.980 --> 00:41:09.969 Mira Brancu: we've been talking a lot about the feedback giver, but the feedback receiver. They have some responsibilities, too. There's the responsibility that you mentioned around. You know. Blurry or fuzzy words. I, as a receiver can say, can you say more about that? Can you provide me with some details that helps prompt you to provide me with feedback? That? Oh, I'm not being all that clear
00:41:10.220 --> 00:41:17.140 Mira Brancu: all of a sudden. Now get, we're giving each other feedback about the feedback, right? But I think that learning how to
00:41:17.903 --> 00:41:22.630 Mira Brancu: you know, do the process part of like. How we do feedback together
00:41:22.810 --> 00:41:29.109 Mira Brancu: is an important part of feedback giving and receiving. How do we do that in a way that helps both of us.
00:41:30.080 --> 00:41:46.079 Sarah Porter, PhD: Absolutely. You know I love that. And I would say that most of where feedback goes awry is really on the giver side. And there are things we can do on the receiving end, to navigate these conversations with more finesse. Right, as you said.
00:41:46.300 --> 00:42:15.499 Sarah Porter, PhD: prompt someone like. If we forget to give an example, ask for it, and that's especially true. If what someone says to you feels off base. And you're like, wait a second. That's not my sense of what's going on, and so ask for those examples. And then you can actually have a kind of question in your back pocket, a version of the micro. Yes, that you offer up as the recipient. If you get something that feels a little, to you, you can say, can I share my take on that.
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:41.389 Sarah Porter, PhD: And that's a great way to offer up more context, more thoughts, more nuance than maybe the giver recognized initially. So it's a way to advocate for yourself. The other thing you can do that, I think, is really cool, and can feel pretty empowering as the recipient, when otherwise you can feel a little bit like in the one down position is, make it a habit of asking for feedback.
00:42:41.460 --> 00:43:06.429 Sarah Porter, PhD: You know it turns out that when people ask for feedback regularly. What you are doing is you're signaling your commitment to continuous learning, which is something that's generally valued in our workplaces. You're in the driver's seat. And interestingly, people see you as a leader. When you do that it's really cool, even if you don't. You know, you're not in an official leadership role.
00:43:06.430 --> 00:43:14.140 Sarah Porter, PhD: but you are aspiring, emerging anything like that. People see you as more leaderly when you ask for and
00:43:14.140 --> 00:43:41.470 Sarah Porter, PhD: actually implement the feedback you get. In fact, there was a study done by Zenger and Folkman, who do a lot of work in this area, and they found that people who very regularly ask for and actually do something with the feedback. They get get a 90% leadership effectiveness rating. And the people who are least likely to do that get a 12% effectiveness rating. So there's a real relationship there between that. And if you want
00:43:41.610 --> 00:43:48.959 Sarah Porter, PhD: pretty accurate feedback, throw in the word candid or honest, I would love your honest take on how that talk went.
00:43:49.980 --> 00:44:12.350 Sarah Porter, PhD: Speaking candidly, share with me what you see. My biggest strengths and struggles are when you do, that people are much more forthcoming. So you're going to get better feedback from them. And then there's lots about what to do in terms of how you respond to and digest the feedback that I'm happy to share, or we can hold. I do have some a 1 pager I'm happy to share with your audience that can help them with that, too.
00:44:12.540 --> 00:44:18.500 Mira Brancu: Awesome. Awesome. So yeah, I mean, I would say also, if
00:44:18.640 --> 00:44:21.890 Mira Brancu: you already know some of your weaknesses and you're working on them.
00:44:22.430 --> 00:44:49.850 Mira Brancu: and you open up the conversation, hey? I know that I can be really annoying when blah blah or I can be I can get pretty tense when such and such happens, and I've been working on it. But I'm not sure I've gotten there yet. I would love your feedback on that. It makes it so much easier for people then to like, not worry about giving you the feedback they were already holding on to, because you just open the door to say, I already know.
00:44:50.130 --> 00:44:54.250 Mira Brancu: I already know. I just want more feedback and support from you around.
00:44:54.250 --> 00:44:57.959 Sarah Porter, PhD: You've you've made it okay for people to speak about the elephant in the room.
00:44:58.690 --> 00:45:22.450 Sarah Porter, PhD: It's like, Oh, okay, you know. Then we can say it too, and often that actually becomes a connector. It actually deepens the connection almost like, Oh, I had a boss who said he was part Vulcan, and once he said that we could tease him about it like, Hey, the Vulcan's coming out if he like, said something that was a little too direct in moments that needed a little bit of a softer touch. And that became a way for the team to actually
00:45:22.450 --> 00:45:33.210 Sarah Porter, PhD: come together around someone's, you know, area for development that they're trying to work on. And they're not quite there yet. So it's okay. Get out ahead of it. I think that's a great addition.
00:45:33.430 --> 00:45:54.404 Mira Brancu: Love it, love it! We are reaching an ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Sarah Porter, and when we come back we'll sort of close out our thoughts about feedback giving and receiving share some resources with you. And I have this sort of additional question around.
00:45:55.100 --> 00:46:04.569 Mira Brancu: how do people start practicing this? Because it's a lot. So I would love to hear your thoughts on that as well. We'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.
00:47:42.270 --> 00:48:01.010 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Sarah Porter, and we are talking about one of my favorite topics, and definitely one of her favorite topics, feedback giving and receiving because it happens to all of us. It's challenging. And we're always all of us trying to get better at it.
00:48:01.220 --> 00:48:18.970 Mira Brancu: Now we talked about a lot of really really good ways to think about it, lots of tips and tricks. And I'm thinking, as we were talking, I'm thinking. Oh, my gosh! If somebody is trying to get better, they might feel really overwhelmed with
00:48:19.170 --> 00:48:25.790 Mira Brancu: all of this especially early on when it feels so mechanical. Right? And so
00:48:26.300 --> 00:48:31.546 Mira Brancu: I'm wondering what what are your thoughts about, how people can get started?
00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:37.540 Mira Brancu: as a feedback giver, and then we can sort of move on to also like receiving feedback as well.
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:43.580 Sarah Porter, PhD: Yeah. So I would think it's always good to kind of make a small commitment
00:48:43.580 --> 00:49:08.540 Sarah Porter, PhD: to experimenting with something new to really help it. Kind of get into you right, really help you connect with it. And so to me, I think one of the 1st steps as a giver is probably to practice the meet, and 3, the opening with a critique and following with praise. And it's okay to actually do this with your peers kind of lower
00:49:08.540 --> 00:49:33.149 Sarah Porter, PhD: people with whom you have a lot of social capital and psychological safety already built up. And just say, Hey, I want to practice this. Can we try this out with each other, and it's okay to script it out initially, just to get used to the kind of pacing and feel of having this sort of conversation. And so I think that's great, you know, literally write down what's a critique that I want to give, and then what are
00:49:33.150 --> 00:49:49.740 Sarah Porter, PhD: at least 2 but ideally 3 pieces of praise I could share with them, and then practice with each other, I would say, try to do that at least like once a quarter, if not more often depending on how often you actually are giving feedback in the workplace. And so I think that's a great 1st step as a giver.
00:49:49.740 --> 00:50:12.770 Sarah Porter, PhD: I think the next piece with that would be working on your intro to the conversation. Whether it's opening with that wise feedback, whether it's saying something like, you know. Feedback's really helped me throughout my career, so I'd love to pay it forward to you. Figure out what feels like your voice to open a conversation like this, and something that's totally okay to say is.
00:50:12.770 --> 00:50:23.109 Sarah Porter, PhD: I don't know about you, but I get nervous in these conversations that can really normalize it. So add to your meet, and 3, a little opener that feels like you. Great place to start as the giver
00:50:23.600 --> 00:50:25.200 Sarah Porter, PhD: I love that you know.
00:50:25.740 --> 00:50:28.580 Mira Brancu: Recently I had a
00:50:29.430 --> 00:50:40.260 Mira Brancu: team leader and executive who reached out to me after we've you know, we finished an entire team development engagement and his team was doing fantastic.
00:50:40.370 --> 00:50:48.119 Mira Brancu: But he was saying, you know, one thing that I'm concerned about is, we don't rumble enough. We don't get into like
00:50:48.540 --> 00:50:59.929 Mira Brancu: things that we're avoiding like that feel like a conflict enough. And I I worry that. This is gonna get to be a problem for us. What do you recommend like? How do we
00:51:00.200 --> 00:51:10.740 Mira Brancu: practice that which I just absolutely adored? That question right? Like I love that he was thinking that way. Most leaders do not ask, can I increase the level of tension.
00:51:11.080 --> 00:51:11.610 Sarah Porter, PhD: I can't.
00:51:12.147 --> 00:51:15.370 Mira Brancu: But you know he he knows
00:51:15.720 --> 00:51:19.070 Mira Brancu: that in order for a team to be high performing.
00:51:19.310 --> 00:51:27.899 Mira Brancu: you need to be open and honest and put ideas on the table and explore those ideas without defensiveness all of that stuff because we went through all of that right.
00:51:28.140 --> 00:51:38.279 Mira Brancu: So one of the little tiny examples I gave him. Which is something that like we practiced earlier on. But they never went back to is
00:51:38.968 --> 00:51:48.051 Mira Brancu: to practice even like once, every other week, or once a month, even every week is is if they could actually squeeze it in
00:51:48.580 --> 00:51:59.540 Mira Brancu: conversations and commitments around. You know, like. What I appreciate about you is one thing I'd like you to do differently about how we work together is.
00:52:00.260 --> 00:52:06.390 Mira Brancu: and the word differently must be seen as neutral, right? Like
00:52:06.700 --> 00:52:09.870 Mira Brancu: one thing I want you to do differently does not mean bad.
00:52:10.070 --> 00:52:14.860 Mira Brancu: It doesn't mean anything. It just means different, right? And
00:52:15.680 --> 00:52:23.450 Mira Brancu: so you're getting one thing that you appreciate, and one thing that you can do differently every single time, and you just go around the room doing that
00:52:23.750 --> 00:52:35.310 Mira Brancu: and if you make it like a like. Okay, this is this is our, you know, feedback giving and receiving or appreciation, and, you know, do differently day or whatever.
00:52:35.490 --> 00:52:38.440 Mira Brancu: Then you're basically embedding a habit
00:52:38.570 --> 00:52:42.230 Mira Brancu: that will eventually just get like so old school boring
00:52:42.550 --> 00:52:45.599 Mira Brancu: that it's not a big deal anymore like you could do it like.
00:52:45.780 --> 00:52:46.370 Sarah Porter, PhD: In your sleep.
00:52:46.370 --> 00:52:47.380 Mira Brancu: Rough times in your sleep.
00:52:47.380 --> 00:52:48.660 Sarah Porter, PhD: Right? Yeah.
00:52:49.110 --> 00:53:08.089 Sarah Porter, PhD: absolutely. I like that because you're norming that we're not all perfect. Nobody is expected to be perfect. And one of the kind of commitments we make as coworkers is that we help each other get better, and that that's a 2 way thing. We acknowledge each other's strengths.
00:53:08.090 --> 00:53:30.589 Sarah Porter, PhD: and we recognize how we could do things differently. I like that because you're normalizing imperfection. You're normalizing more of a growth mindset. And all of that's going to serve you really well for creating that robust culture of feedback. I would say the caveat to that is, I'd actually flip the order of that exercise and start with. The one thing I would consider.
00:53:30.590 --> 00:53:30.940 Mira Brancu: 3.
00:53:30.940 --> 00:53:31.390 Sarah Porter, PhD: Separately.
00:53:32.220 --> 00:53:57.129 Sarah Porter, PhD: That's your meat, because what's interesting is the reason why they find they believe that starting with praise doesn't work so well is we've been so trained to expect a critique right after that we don't hear the praise we're already like primed for the other shoe to drop the other thing that can happen, especially with like a praise. Critique praise is, you can fall prey to like primacy and recency effects. People will
00:53:57.130 --> 00:54:18.330 Sarah Porter, PhD: just remember the praise and forget the critique. So that's why I'd say, let's start with, let's try this differently. And here's something I really appreciate. And making that a little ritual in the team. That goes a long way for making this kind of informal culture of feedback a way lighter lift for the whole crew, and I think it becomes
00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:30.699 Sarah Porter, PhD: kind of contagious for lack of a better word. You find yourself starting to do that outside of there, right after a meeting over lunch, when you all hit a milestone, it just becomes part and parcel of how your team operates.
00:54:31.020 --> 00:54:34.769 Mira Brancu: Beautiful, beautiful! Alright, Sarah! We could talk forever, but.
00:54:34.770 --> 00:54:35.190 Sarah Porter, PhD: Right.
00:54:35.190 --> 00:54:42.550 Mira Brancu: We don't have the time. So how can people learn more about you? Reach out to you and get more information if they're curious.
00:54:42.550 --> 00:55:07.309 Sarah Porter, PhD: So you can actually find me on my website, which is Dr. sarahporter.com. I am on Instagram, not posting there super often, but you can find me there at Dr. Sarah Porter, and then a great way to connect with me is on Linkedin at Sarah Porterphd. I post very regularly on Linkedin, you can tell I'm a real consumer of the research, and so I share the latest studies. I share kind of cool
00:55:07.310 --> 00:55:32.020 Sarah Porter, PhD: tips, and everything I do is very practical. So it's not just dense nerdiness. It's actually, how can we roll this out in our workplaces in a very easy to implement way, and so reach out to me if you want me to kind of talk workplace, well-being. If you would love to have me come in to do a keynote or workshops for your leaders or your entire organization. I do this around Trust. I do this around
00:55:32.050 --> 00:55:58.610 Sarah Porter, PhD: all the skills that support, trust things like setting boundaries and saying no things like giving feedback things like growing our hope and gratitude as a team, and so reach out to me there. And if you're really interested in the receiving end of feedback. I know Mira offered a couple of examples, and we touched on that. I do have a 1 pager called how to handle feedback like a pro. Shoot me a message on Linkedin, or shoot me a message on my website, and I'm happy to share that with you.
00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:10.989 Mira Brancu: Excellent, excellent, thank you. And I did promise you the other free stuff on my website. So all you have to do is go to go towerscope.com.
00:56:11.170 --> 00:56:41.079 Mira Brancu: click on resources, other free stuff. And over there the 1st 2 right now, later on. It might not be the 1st 2, because I keep adding to this page, you'll see the 4 models of giving feedback. Forget the once a year. Feedback sandwich. Here's 4 other ways. Some of those ways Sarah mentioned, there are a few others and feedback readiness. How do you know if somebody's ready for you to give feedback? Or if a situation is ready for your feedback. You can download those by just signing up
00:56:41.860 --> 00:56:47.220 Mira Brancu: and audience. What did you take away from what Sarah shared with us?
00:56:47.695 --> 00:57:06.480 Mira Brancu: Try to pick one thing just one thing, she said, and implement it, play around with it, explore it, learn from it, practice it, and then share with her on Linkedin, or with me at Mira Branco or@talkradio.nyc. And we'll love to cheer you on. We'd love to hear what you tried
00:57:06.660 --> 00:57:14.440 Mira Brancu: talkradio, Dot, Nyc. Is also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, twitch, apple, spotify Amazon, Pad podcasts all over the place.
00:57:14.740 --> 00:57:19.669 Mira Brancu: Please help us reach our visibility. Reach and impact by leaving a review.
00:57:20.330 --> 00:57:25.850 Mira Brancu: Thank you to talkradio dot Nyc. For hosting, and thank you for joining us. Dr. Sarah Porter.
00:57:26.420 --> 00:57:28.380 Sarah Porter, PhD: Thank you, Mira. It's been a pleasure.
00:57:28.380 --> 00:57:33.450 Mira Brancu: Absolutely have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from everybody. Bye.
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