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EPISODE SUMMARY:
WHAT YOU WILL LEARN:
Sponsorship is the game-changer for career growth, but what makes it so powerful? And how can it go awry? In this episode, we explore how sponsorship differs from mentorship, the unique barriers women face in securing sponsors, and the critical role men play as allies and advocates. That’s what we will be delving into on this episode.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Dr. Linda Lawrence, founder of People Always Healthcare Consulting, is a Certified Executive Coach and leadership development expert. With over 25 years of experience as a Physician Executive, Linda has held senior leadership roles across the military, academia, nonprofit boards, and start-up companies. She is recognized for her expertise in guiding leaders to foster trust, drive strategic transformation, and build high performing, engaged teams.
A trailblazer in promoting gender equity and inclusivity, Linda is passionate about empowering leaders to break through barriers, embrace bold decisions, and create lasting impact. Linda earned her M.D. from Temple University. She is a Certified Physician Executive (CPE) through the American Association for Physician Leadership (AAPL), a Professional Certified Coach (PCC) through the International Coaching Federation (ICF), and a certified Career Coach through the Center for Executive Coaching.
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LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
https://www.peoplealwayshcc.com/
https://www.peoplealwayshcc.com/revitalize
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindalawrence1/ https://www.facebook.com/linda.lawrence.98478/
www.gotowerscope.com
Can you ask to get a sponsor within an organization? What makes a sponsor invest in someone? And how can organizations build cultures where sponsorship thrives? Tune in to dispel myths, answer tough questions, and learn how to foster career relationships that drive impact for everyone.
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
The latest episode of The Hard Skills with Dr. Mira Brancu focuses on the critical role of sponsorship in leadership development, featuring Dr. Linda Lawrence, a seasoned physician executive. They explore how sponsorship differs from mentorship, emphasizing that sponsors actively invest their social and political capital to advance high-potential individuals, making it a key driver of career growth. The discussion underscores the mutually beneficial nature of sponsorship, where leaders seek to cultivate talent aligned with their vision, fostering both personal and organizational success.
Dr. Linda Lawrence discusses the transformative power of sponsorship in leadership, emphasizing how it opens doors to opportunities individuals may not initially see for themselves and builds confidence through the trust and advocacy of influential sponsors. She highlights the importance of visibility, strategic networking, and embracing stretch assignments—especially for women and marginalized groups who often face systemic barriers to leadership advancement. Dr. Mira Brancu adds that true sponsorship requires both access to opportunities and recognition of talent, underscoring the critical role of allyship in breaking down structural barriers and fostering inclusive leadership pathways.
Leaders must prioritize sponsorship by identifying and investing in high-potential talent within their organizations, ensuring equitable opportunities across all departments. Effective sponsorship requires senior leaders to go beyond their immediate circle, recognizing and developing talent at multiple levels, and fostering a culture of visibility and growth. For aspiring high-achievers, the key to gaining sponsorship lies in proactively addressing challenges with innovative solutions and demonstrating a commitment to the organization's mission.
In this final segment, Dr. Linda Lawrence discusses the critical distinction between mentorship and sponsorship, emphasizing that true organizational change requires leadership commitment and cultural transformation. She highlights common pitfalls, such as performative sponsorship and lack of sustained support, and provides actionable insights on fostering equitable opportunities through intentional leadership. Dr. Lawrence encourages leaders at all levels to proactively sponsor talent and urges emerging professionals to seek opportunities for connection and growth, while recommending practical resources like the book Good Guys to advance workplace allyship.
00:00:51.520 --> 00:01:17.080 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the most challenging soft skills required to navigate today's leadership complexities and tomorrow's unknowns. I'm your host, Dr. Mira Bronco, and my new millennials workbook for navigating work based politics. If you haven't heard it came out last month. It was a number one new release in business and organizational learning on Amazon.
00:01:17.290 --> 00:01:30.299 Mira Brancu: So don't forget to get your copy. Season 6 to 9 are all dedicated to this topic and Season 6 is all about positive politics. And today we have Dr. Linda Lawrence. Talk about
00:01:30.860 --> 00:01:48.480 Mira Brancu: sponsorships, which I think is a critical, positive politics mechanism. Right? We're going to talk about what is sponsorship. How is it different from mentorship? Can you actually ask for it? What makes somebody actually want to serve as a sponsor.
00:01:48.630 --> 00:02:09.610 Mira Brancu: I've been in that role. It's been incredibly rewarding. How does somebody end up in that kind of role? How can you be a sponsor. All of that sponsor sponsor is what we're talking about today, and I'm going to introduce to you our speaker today. Dr. Linda Lawrence, our guest, is the founder of people, always healthcare, consulting
00:02:09.729 --> 00:02:20.880 Mira Brancu: with over 25 years of experience as a physician, executive Linda has held senior leadership roles across the military Academia, nonprofit boards and startup companies.
00:02:21.200 --> 00:02:36.879 Mira Brancu: She is recognized for her expertise in guiding leaders to foster trust, drive, strategic transformation and build high performing engaged teams. Linda is passionate about empowering leaders to break through barriers, embrace bold decisions, and create lasting impact.
00:02:37.190 --> 00:02:50.359 Mira Brancu: She earned her Md. From Temple University, is a certified physician, executive, a professional certified coach and a certified career coach. So she really knows what she's talking about. Good to have you on the show, Linda.
00:02:50.920 --> 00:02:56.390 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Oh, it's great to be here, and this is like one of my favorite topics. So what a great
00:02:56.500 --> 00:02:57.910 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: day this is! Gonna be.
00:02:57.910 --> 00:03:07.929 Mira Brancu: Good good. I'm so excited to dig into this. So let's just start with the the definition. Some people might not even know what sponsorship is, or might confuse it with other terms. So how do you define sponsorship?
00:03:08.450 --> 00:03:27.959 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Yeah. So let me just start to I, for whoever is listening, I hope by the end of it you walk away with a pearl of action, because there is something here for every one of us, no matter where you are in your career, whether you're at the beginning, whether you're in a more senior position. So listen up.
00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:34.550 Mira Brancu: I'm glad you said that, because a lot of people might even think, Oh, this is only for like when you're at the executive level. But that's not true.
00:03:34.950 --> 00:04:03.920 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Oh, no, no, in fact, let's get something right off the bat. I mean. Women especially are being left behind, or other marginalized groups because of the broken rung. So I know we're going to get into talking about organizations and that. But we need to be thinking about sponsorship much much sooner in the game. And so let's talk about what sponsorship is. It is when a senior person
00:04:04.350 --> 00:04:20.229 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: takes interest in somebody more junior, and a senior person has to be somebody that has position. They have social capital, they have, you know, they've established themselves in that organization.
00:04:20.440 --> 00:04:32.139 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and they see that person, and they're willing to take a bet on that person, and you know often that person is a couple rungs lower in the organization.
00:04:32.310 --> 00:04:39.979 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: but they see that potential. They see what that person is going to bring, maybe to themselves.
00:04:40.050 --> 00:04:49.000 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: or at least the organization or a vision of where they want that organization to go. So an important thing is as you talk about
00:04:49.000 --> 00:05:14.420 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: millennials or our generational differences. Let's be honest. We have different skill sets depending where we're at. So you know, embrace that you're going to bring something to a more senior leader that they're looking for, and they're going to see that in you, and they're going to advocate for you, and they have that ability to do that because they are in a place of security.
00:05:14.580 --> 00:05:30.948 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And they have that. And they're looking at you. They're not doing this because they're being altruistic. So let's get that clear up front, you know, they're seeing you as aligned with them and aligned with where the organization. So there's this like mindedness.
00:05:31.520 --> 00:05:53.909 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and they're going to have your back, and we're going to keep coming back to that. And so they're really good at disrupting the biases in the organization or the biases that, you know might be had. But it's their power and their political capital that they have to invest in you, but we're going to talk about it. They're going to push you to take risks.
00:05:54.100 --> 00:05:57.090 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and they're going to expect a lot from you.
00:05:57.090 --> 00:06:04.669 Mira Brancu: Hmm, yeah. So I'm gonna pull out a few things that you mentioned here that distinguish it from mentorship.
00:06:04.890 --> 00:06:13.505 Mira Brancu: Right? So you know, mentors might have your back. Mentors might care about your future and your success in an organization right?
00:06:14.090 --> 00:06:19.429 Mira Brancu: will they be willing to take a bet? Maybe maybe not. Usually
00:06:19.630 --> 00:06:42.917 Mira Brancu: it's a mentor who also likes to be a sponsor and takes on the sponsorship hat that places that bet on you and invests in you. So that is a key differentiator, the investment in you. That it is not just altruistic at altruistic. I love that you sort of name, that that is another important one that I'd love to get back to, and
00:06:43.380 --> 00:06:53.409 Mira Brancu: that they will use their political and social capital. They are risking you know their power and privilege
00:06:53.750 --> 00:07:05.550 Mira Brancu: within the organization because they think it's worth it. And it's a kind of mutually beneficial thing. You don't always see that in a mentor, unless the mentor is also serving as a sponsor, whether they say it or not.
00:07:06.260 --> 00:07:28.680 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Correct, correct, and you can have that overlap that somebody can be a mentor sponsor. But I like to think of it more as mentor and sponsor share some common skills. So they both, you know, provide advice. They both give guidance. They, you know, both will give you feedback, and they both might make introductions, but a sponsor will
00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:53.892 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: take that introduction level to a whole nother level. But the difference with what a mentor gives you is more just knowledge they share like. Oh, here's how I did it. Here's what you might want to consider. And then so they help us learn, and they deepen our knowledge, and they might say, you know, go off and learn and look at this. But
00:07:54.520 --> 00:08:16.390 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: that's kind of where it ends. That sharing of experience and knowledge versus a sponsor is saying, I see you. I see what skills and talents you have. I'm going to put you in positions and places that are going to develop you and advance you.
00:08:16.740 --> 00:08:22.019 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And when they're putting you in those positions, you're bringing value to the organization, or that.
00:08:22.950 --> 00:08:32.290 Mira Brancu: And let's take a talk about why you mentioned it's not just altruistic. They're not doing it out of charity, which thank thankfully, nobody wants to be a charity case. Right? So.
00:08:32.299 --> 00:08:32.749 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Okay.
00:08:32.750 --> 00:08:42.340 Mira Brancu: But why? Why would they risk their political capital, their social capital? Why would they recommend you like? What's in it for them?
00:08:43.440 --> 00:09:01.280 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Well, because they are leaders. They're leaders in that organization, or however you are connected. You have some common connection there, and they want to see that like cause that you share, or that you know what you're working on
00:09:01.280 --> 00:09:19.260 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: be advanced. But they see you have that ability to take that to the next level, or you're going to be following up. You know. Any senior leader knows they're not going to be there forever. So they want to develop that, you know who's going to follow, and they invest in the people that they.
00:09:19.260 --> 00:09:46.580 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: you know, share same. They see that potential. I don't want to say that they share the same exact goals because that gets into oh, well, then, I got to look and be exactly like the sponsor. No, a good sponsor values diversity. And they're like, I see that person for talents and other views and perspectives that I might not have. But they're bringing a new critical skill. Set a lot of times, too.
00:09:46.610 --> 00:09:48.050 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: to the table.
00:09:48.050 --> 00:09:59.099 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And I'm gonna share a story. I'd love to hear your stories around sponsorship, whether like you were a sponsor or have been sponsored, and and that sort of journey. But I'll share mine first.st
00:09:59.625 --> 00:10:06.759 Mira Brancu: And it was. It was pretty powerful and exactly like how you're saying about, you know, mutually beneficial.
00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:13.025 Mira Brancu: When I was early on in my second career as a clinical psychologist.
00:10:13.930 --> 00:10:33.860 Mira Brancu: I was honestly like, really burned from a previous position that I had in a different different field, different organization and and really felt like, forget it. You know what in my next, you know, Job, it's gonna be a job. It's not going to be a career. I'm not putting my all in it. I'm just putting my all in other things, etc, etc.
00:10:33.990 --> 00:10:34.510 Mira Brancu: and
00:10:35.950 --> 00:10:56.814 Mira Brancu: the the highest level leader in this organization started recognizing things that I was doing that were above and beyond my job, because obviously I can't help myself, and I need to fix things anyway, even though I told myself it was going to be just a job. I still had to like, you know, improve the systems, improve the the relationships improve.
00:10:57.280 --> 00:11:13.999 Mira Brancu: you know, operating, you know, workflow and stuff like that. And so he noticed that. And he also noticed how I was interacting and getting people working together, which was a real challenge at that time. And he said he, you know he just invited me
00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:23.999 Mira Brancu: to work with him on various projects and various ways to improve the organization, and as I was doing that, lo and behold
00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:41.890 Mira Brancu: what what was unfolding in front of me was a career that I was not expecting nor planning right, but he saw things in me that I didn't see in myself, but that would actually like bring out my very best. That would help me lean into my sort of strengths and the things that excite me about work.
00:11:42.370 --> 00:11:47.010 Mira Brancu: And that also addressed his needs
00:11:47.140 --> 00:11:53.729 Mira Brancu: that he couldn't fulfill himself. And that was a beautiful marriage, because what happened, you know, towards
00:11:53.950 --> 00:11:59.229 Mira Brancu: the end is like an amazing skyrocketed leadership career on my end.
00:11:59.850 --> 00:12:15.300 Mira Brancu: we grew the organization massively. Grew the sort of visibility and recognition and branding of the organization and you know, at the end of it, as I left to to move on to other things, I said.
00:12:16.410 --> 00:12:29.429 Mira Brancu: I I just so appreciate that you mentored me, and you poured into me and like saw things, and you know, like it was all about like what he gave to me right. And then he he said, Mira.
00:12:29.910 --> 00:12:43.299 Mira Brancu: don't you understand? I got just as much out of this as you did. It was like the 1st time I had realized that I had not known that. But that was kind of like an amazing realization, and that also sort of inspired me
00:12:43.630 --> 00:12:52.350 Mira Brancu: to be able to not just mentor, but also sponsor when you know when the chance came. So I'm curious about your own.
00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:54.870 Mira Brancu: Your own stories of this.
00:12:54.870 --> 00:13:06.829 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: So you know, it's interesting, the story that I really was gonna share, too, because I have several. But when I really understood sponsorship. My story is kind of similar to
00:13:06.830 --> 00:13:08.110 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Okay.
00:13:08.220 --> 00:13:35.935 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: happened to me, and I didn't fully at 1st realize it. So here I was at a really pivotal point in my Air Force career. I just made Colonel, and I was thrown into this big assignment. I was made a chief medical officer, and trust me. I was just wanted to go hide, and you know, kind of stay on the low radar. But no, I got up there, and then I
00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:50.000 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: you know, started having opportunities. And I was like, Wow, I met this general who was second in command for the Air Force Medical Service, and we just kept
00:13:50.050 --> 00:14:10.070 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: connecting, and he kept opening these doors to these projects, and then I came up, and I and he then helped me to see. I wanted to be a commander then, and I didn't make command the 1st time, because the Air Force that year changed the system, and we were at this big meeting, and he came over to me. He said.
00:14:10.070 --> 00:14:39.759 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Don't worry. I have a plan for you. I want you to meet this other general, and you're going to go work for him next year, and you're going to be then a hospital commander or a CEO. And I was like, well, this is a step back this assignment, but you had to. I had to trust him. So that's an important thing. Trust went off. Did that assignment with this other general in that year did a couple amazing things projects project for that general and for this sponsoring general.
00:14:39.760 --> 00:14:59.219 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And you know it just opened new doors, and that general, that he put me under to work for, and I did get the CEO assignment. But then that general, too, when the one retired, who became our surgeon general. The next one became Surgeon General, fast forward. My career ended with an amazing opportunity.
00:14:59.761 --> 00:15:15.009 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Leading the Air Force into their high reliability program. That's how I, and you know. So that cycle of sponsorship continued, because of that introductions would I have ever mapped out. I gave it on a very high level there.
00:15:15.110 --> 00:15:30.839 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: No way would I have ever thought I would have come into contact with these gentlemen? No, but it just changed my whole career, and I'd love. I know we're going on break, but there's so much more I'd love to pull through in those stories.
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:50.979 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I definitely want to pull that. And you're right. We are reaching an ad break. So you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and our guest today, Dr. Linda Lawrence. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern. If you are online right now and watching us, you can drop us a note and we will respond, and otherwise we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:54.250 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Bronco and our guest today. Dr. Linda Lawrence, who, I just found out, was also colonel in the military. She doesn't even include that in her bio. I was admonishing her in the background like, how could we not know this? How can I not, you know, have shared that with the world among all of the other impressive things that you've done, Linda.
00:17:54.290 --> 00:18:05.949 Mira Brancu: Well, tell me more about your story. It sounds like we just touched the surface. I'd love to hear more about the impact of sponsorship in your own experiences and and kind of what, what threads you pull!
00:18:06.770 --> 00:18:08.947 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Yeah, I you know, I think
00:18:10.620 --> 00:18:20.709 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: 1. 1 of the key threads is that it opened doors that I would not have opened for myself.
00:18:21.347 --> 00:18:32.800 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: I went into that assignment 1st of all, not believing in myself thankfully. The people I was put under did believe in me
00:18:33.070 --> 00:18:44.389 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: unbeknownst. This general believed in me because he signed off on that assignment. But, you know I had opportunities, and
00:18:45.030 --> 00:18:50.116 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: it was that trust that was placed in me to do that
00:18:50.680 --> 00:19:18.790 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And there was like another opportunity that I had. I was serving on a board when I went into this chief medical officer role at that time, and I was on the National Board for the American College Emergency Physicians as an active duty member, and I thought, I'll never be, you know, able to be a senior officer on the board, but this general saw the value in that for the Air Force.
00:19:18.790 --> 00:19:21.300 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and he said, Sure.
00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:45.049 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: let's find a way to make this happen, and he told the lawyer, head lawyer of the Air Force find a way to make this happen, and he told the hospital. CEO, I work for, find a way to support her and make this happen. I've been the only active duty person I know to, you know, be the president of a major medical professional society while on active duty.
00:19:45.050 --> 00:20:03.360 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: That's the kind of now that was like something personal to me that I thought I could never do. That's what a sponsor can do for you. They can even take sometimes your personal desires. But it wasn't just like he was like, well, that's something you want to do. No, he saw what value that brought
00:20:03.370 --> 00:20:05.000 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: to the Air Force.
00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:05.410 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:20:05.833 --> 00:20:14.309 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: So there was something in it for him. So that's what I'm trying to say. It is a bi-directional relationship.
00:20:14.956 --> 00:20:17.689 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: I mentioned that you know
00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:48.509 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: it opened doors helped me to see my leadership as a leadership potential. I said, Oh, yeah, I would like to be a hospital commander or CEO, and you know didn't get it. And when he told me, well, all right, we haven't. You know the system changed, didn't work out the way we wanted it to work out. We wanted you to be one this year, but you're going to have to wait 2 years now, but go work for this other general, and I'm like, Well, this is a step back. And ironically, it was actually the job I was hoping to just
00:20:48.510 --> 00:21:08.910 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: slip into and coast. You know my time in. But I'm like, Okay, but you know you go down there. And so now I got to meet this other general work for this other general and the things that we were able to do together, the opportunities that unfolded there.
00:21:09.600 --> 00:21:10.730 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:29.290 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: that's the kind of stuff that you begin to realize you can do with a with sponsorship. I was also the Emergency Medicine Consultant for the Air Force Surgeon General at the time, so you know.
00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:53.130 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Other leaders shut down the proposal to optimize and re-engineer the emergency departments across the Air Force. Well, the general I was working for said, Hey, I know your sponsor is coming to town. We're going to have you go over and pitch it while he's visiting the people that are shutting this down. And lo and behold!
00:21:53.290 --> 00:21:54.949 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Walked out of there.
00:21:55.120 --> 00:22:04.850 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Project approved. That's the kind of things because you could see the vision. Now I, you know, had to learn, too, how to be.
00:22:04.950 --> 00:22:05.930 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: how to.
00:22:06.230 --> 00:22:16.060 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: you know, have the skills to be aligned with the right people to promote things in the right way. The politics of things. But
00:22:16.380 --> 00:22:20.349 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: that's that's what they can do. And I think, you know,
00:22:21.090 --> 00:22:31.920 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: we, we need to develop those skills of believing in ourselves and then having people that can help us to.
00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:40.380 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: to just shine, to take what potential we have. And you know.
00:22:40.490 --> 00:22:46.460 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and it's just amazing. Once that door gets opened, it just kept multiplying.
00:22:46.710 --> 00:22:47.340 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: I just.
00:22:47.340 --> 00:22:50.225 Mira Brancu: So I you know, I think
00:22:52.170 --> 00:22:56.790 Mira Brancu: that one of the things that you know as we're talking I'm thinking about is
00:22:57.450 --> 00:23:00.170 Mira Brancu: these are, 1st of all, these are doors that
00:23:00.410 --> 00:23:05.779 Mira Brancu: are not visible necessarily opportunities that are not visible
00:23:06.190 --> 00:23:10.059 Mira Brancu: to most people. So it takes somebody who
00:23:10.830 --> 00:23:14.860 Mira Brancu: has been in certain sections of the organization.
00:23:14.970 --> 00:23:27.159 Mira Brancu: and understands it well enough to connect the dots between the available opportunities, the vision, and the people who could get them there. And this is part of
00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:31.045 Mira Brancu: the tricky part of sponsorship is
00:23:31.900 --> 00:23:45.280 Mira Brancu: that that sponsor has to have access to 2 things. One is knowledge of kind of the the vision and opportunities available. And 2 is knowledge of who has the skills
00:23:45.570 --> 00:23:46.470 Mira Brancu: to.
00:23:46.470 --> 00:23:46.930 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: To.
00:23:46.930 --> 00:23:56.139 Mira Brancu: Walk into those doors and to be sponsored right? And I'm wondering from your perspective around sponsorship that piece like
00:23:56.250 --> 00:24:16.219 Mira Brancu: there are challenges to getting connected to a sponsor. Those challenges are harder for women and marginalized people and and so, even, you know, being visible to a sponsor who could then connect that person to that opportunity is challenging. And I'm wondering your thoughts on that.
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:27.269 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Yeah, so yeah, let's get into. How do you find sponsors? I think. Well, 1st of all, you have to.
00:24:28.020 --> 00:24:30.709 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: You have to be making yourself
00:24:30.780 --> 00:24:51.319 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: visible. And there's some definite gender differences, you know. Let's be honest. Women 1st of all tend to hold themselves back. We tend to be more comfortable in the mentoring relationship. Because, oh, I just want to learn. I don't want to be challenged.
00:24:51.350 --> 00:25:19.439 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: There's a key aspect of it about putting yourself out there about networking or connecting about being visible, about making the time for those other things. Now, you know, Flip Side is in some organizations. Those opportunities aren't always available equally to all people, but you know, you maybe need to just
00:25:19.770 --> 00:25:36.969 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: put yourself in there, I call it I golfed for my country as I became a senior leader. I did golf, but I wasn't the world's best golfer, but I was like, Hey, they do this a lot of at the high level. I'm going to have to start being part of the golf
00:25:37.280 --> 00:25:40.190 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: golfing events, you know, because
00:25:40.480 --> 00:26:07.070 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: you just need to be in some of the places sometimes. But let's go go back to it, like I think. 1st and foremost, we need to be open as women to stretch assignments. We need to be open to being challenged, and you need to have trust. I you know I got pushed. I got pushed into things I necessarily didn't want to sign up for. But I trusted
00:26:07.100 --> 00:26:17.344 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: my sponsor. So there's a lot of trust there and then you got to perform. So you have to believe in your in yourself and your own skills.
00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:21.840 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: in ways you get connected is.
00:26:22.460 --> 00:26:43.809 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: I think, a lot of this is we need allies and we need organizations that create allyship. And that gets back to what I said at the beginning. Everybody that's listening is going to have a role here, so whether you can be an ally, whether you can be a sponsor, whether you're somebody looking for a sponsor. Allyship is
00:26:44.100 --> 00:26:49.360 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: so important. So to even just to begin to
00:26:49.650 --> 00:26:58.040 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: kind of create that level playing field early on for people to get recognized equally.
00:26:58.210 --> 00:27:16.770 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And this is where we have problems in organizations and where we begin right away with the broken rung. I don't know, you know. I haven't read your book, you know. I imagine you probably get into it. You know the broken rung. The 1st place women get left behind is that, you know
00:27:17.520 --> 00:27:22.370 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: 187 to women to every 100 men get promoted
00:27:22.620 --> 00:27:36.580 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: in the initial entry level management positions, and it just kind of, you know, we start to get left behind, and it's even worse for people of color or other marginalized communities. And and then.
00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:45.220 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: if you're not there, and nobody's advocating for you in places where you're not represented. That's what a sponsor does.
00:27:46.020 --> 00:27:50.919 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: But an ally can do that as well. Then what happens, you get left
00:27:51.410 --> 00:28:00.979 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: further behind. So this is where even just some basic things like opening those paths to allyship.
00:28:01.600 --> 00:28:05.329 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I really like that you mentioned. You know the allyship because,
00:28:05.980 --> 00:28:23.320 Mira Brancu: you know, I talk a lot about which comes first, st the chicken or the egg. You know. Women aren't born with low self-confidence. They're not born with imposter syndrome. They're not born with a lack of ambition. In fact.
00:28:23.500 --> 00:28:35.720 Mira Brancu: one of the most recent Mckinsey reports makes it very clear that women, just, you know, have just as much ambition, if not more, and black women have even more ambition, you know, towards leadership roles. So
00:28:35.760 --> 00:28:56.039 Mira Brancu: then, what happens? Right? We receive a lot of messages and a lot of bad treatment. When we put ourselves out there when we try to become more visible when we try to take up space. You know, we we get like the proverbial, you know, slap in the hand, you know. Know your place. Step back, you know that kind of thing, and so
00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:58.290 Mira Brancu: we then learn
00:28:58.550 --> 00:29:14.569 Mira Brancu: to make ourselves smaller to fit in to make other people comfortable, to not take up space, to not become visible, etc, etc. And unfortunately, that does hurt us and purposefully. That's the point of of sexism and structures like that.
00:29:15.010 --> 00:29:18.860 Mira Brancu: It it causes us to hold ourselves back.
00:29:19.425 --> 00:29:28.774 Mira Brancu: Because we've taken in the message from the system and unlearning that is really critical. Right? To to say yes.
00:29:29.320 --> 00:29:34.480 Mira Brancu: you know, I'm being held back, and that's not fair. And what am I gonna do about it? But also
00:29:34.560 --> 00:30:00.719 Mira Brancu: also allies help a lot because they help undo the damage. They're there to say, no, you got this. No, I believe in you. Let me help, you know. Step in when somebody treats you badly in a meeting. Let me speak up. You know, when I'm concerned that somebody speaking badly behind your back, or whatever all of that like, helps disrupt and undo the damage that's being done along the way, which makes a big difference right.
00:30:01.100 --> 00:30:26.249 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Yes, yeah, yes, that is like one of the key key things. And I think you know, still, women don't get the due credit for the work that they do on projects. That's where an ally can go. Oh, no, that was Mira's work. Mira led this project or that was her idea those subtle things that Allies can do to help women to get recognized.
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:35.460 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: That's what helps you. It's not like you go and sign up for a sponsor. There aren't sponsor programs per se. That, you know.
00:30:35.580 --> 00:30:50.459 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: directed. This is a cultural thing where you have to break out the bias that is in organizations and make it part of everyone's responsibility. But I believe it really does start up at the top with leadership
00:30:50.580 --> 00:30:54.960 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and the culture that is created in that organization.
00:30:55.130 --> 00:31:18.050 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So we're reaching an ad break when we come back. Let's talk a little bit about the culture. Let's talk a little bit about access and also helping people learn how they can lean into becoming a sponsor or seeking a sponsor or those kinds of things like, how do you do? What's the workplace? Politics, part of this? How do you do that? So we'll be right back in just a moment. And I'm looking forward to it.
00:32:50.430 --> 00:32:59.540 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Linda Lawrence, who's talking today with us about sponsorship.
00:32:59.650 --> 00:33:10.949 Mira Brancu: So, Linda, let's get into the nitty gritty about the politics behind, how someone becomes a sponsor, and also how someone seeks out a sponsor. How does all of that work.
00:33:12.450 --> 00:33:20.750 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: All right. Well, I think what's really incumbent upon leaders and organizations is to make this a priority.
00:33:21.260 --> 00:33:28.400 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And you know, if you are a senior leader, and you're in a senior position, I'd ask you.
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:33.950 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: is this a priority of yours? Even if it's not your organizational priority?
00:33:35.370 --> 00:33:39.500 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Can you say you are actively sponsoring somebody.
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:42.580 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: You know. How much time do you commit to this?
00:33:42.930 --> 00:33:45.700 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And you're saying, well, I don't know who to sponsor.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:48.949 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: All right, I'm going to challenge you. With
00:33:49.770 --> 00:33:55.739 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: what project do you need done? What? What big goal is not getting done the way you want it?
00:33:56.440 --> 00:34:04.190 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Or if you're the leader of that organization. How many people do you know 2 or 3 rungs down in your organization?
00:34:05.450 --> 00:34:08.479 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: If you're a leader and you can't answer that question.
00:34:09.590 --> 00:34:18.989 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: I question your soft skills of leaders because a good leader really wants to know
00:34:19.530 --> 00:34:32.490 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: the high performers down in the organization. You want to be finding those people. So what kind of conversations are you having that? You don't know where your high potentials are?
00:34:33.650 --> 00:35:00.939 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And so that's what leaders need to be doing? I know when I was a senior leader. I knew who my high potentials were. I knew the people that needed to get on projects, or I knew the people like I shared. I was in the military. So you know, when I was the hospital, CEO, I knew who I was offering up to go over to on the wing side for a high profile project, or when we had, you know.
00:35:01.090 --> 00:35:09.979 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: a dignitary visit, or you know the generals coming through. Who was? Who was I going to stage? Who was I going to let brief? Who was I gonna showcase.
00:35:10.340 --> 00:35:10.760 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:39.010 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Because who did I want to, you know. Tell the story, and I didn't tell the story when we had Vips come. I didn't tell the story. I let my people tell the story. I even had it so scripted down when they walked through the hospital, who was opening the door to the next hallway we would go. That would get to meet that general officer. What airmen and get us, you know, say something
00:35:39.770 --> 00:35:49.739 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: that made an impression on that person, but it might have opened the door for them to begin to get notice. Do you think of things like that? Do you know your people.
00:35:50.336 --> 00:36:14.840 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: So you know I'll I'll just give one simple way that I used to do. It is the power of shout, outs of starting, you know. Meetings with shout outs, one on one meetings, but team meeting, and that became a whole culture in the organization. So quickly it could filter up. How do you know the people that are 2, 3, 4 levels down.
00:36:17.020 --> 00:36:27.719 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: that's, you know, one way of getting to know it. But make sure that you're just not listening to only your inner circle around you.
00:36:28.030 --> 00:36:31.649 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and that you're looking for for those people.
00:36:32.210 --> 00:36:32.560 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:36:32.560 --> 00:36:38.740 Mira Brancu: And I as you're talking, I am also thinking about
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:52.860 Mira Brancu: if not, everybody's doing it. If if it's not part of the culture. Right? You can have what could happen over time is differences in
00:36:53.140 --> 00:37:16.369 Mira Brancu: who gets noticed depending on what department you're in? Because if this leader in this department does is isn't doing sponsorship very well, but this one is doing sponsorship fantastically. Well, then, all their people are getting promoted, and all these people over here in this department are not getting promoted. And then all these people feel like the redd headed stepchildren right? Not being overlooked, not being.
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:28.960 Mira Brancu: you know, put up for opportunities, and then it feels like a fairness issue like a you know, disparities issue, and it's mainly because one knows how to sponsor their people, and one doesn't.
00:37:29.860 --> 00:37:30.430 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Yep.
00:37:31.450 --> 00:37:34.200 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: But then that comes back to the senior most leader.
00:37:34.620 --> 00:37:36.720 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Yeah, you know it.
00:37:36.720 --> 00:37:37.690 Mira Brancu: Yeah, right.
00:37:37.690 --> 00:37:38.350 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Value, that.
00:37:38.350 --> 00:37:45.045 Mira Brancu: Senior senior. That's right, senior. Most leaders like why are you always talking about your people? And you're not?
00:37:46.130 --> 00:37:49.050 Mira Brancu: Am I about those people and not those people. Right?
00:37:49.050 --> 00:37:57.940 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Ex. I but I didn't really call out my leaders that didn't. I found out that my leaders that weren't doing it didn't know how to do it.
00:37:57.940 --> 00:37:58.620 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:37:58.620 --> 00:38:01.219 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: So I invested in them to do it.
00:38:02.350 --> 00:38:08.759 Mira Brancu: That's another level of mentorship and sponsorship is teaching them how to do it. Right? Well, yeah.
00:38:09.100 --> 00:38:13.445 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: It was a skill that I felt was very important.
00:38:14.030 --> 00:38:33.659 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: that you know they had to cause. You're right. You brought up a really good point. Otherwise. Yeah, the leader right beneath me. That did it really? Well, I could have taken the easy button go. I'll just keep taking his people because he gives me great people, and I won't look over here at the 5 other direct reports I have beneath me, and they're, you know.
00:38:33.820 --> 00:38:38.150 Mira Brancu: Yeah. It also comes down to like, you know.
00:38:38.430 --> 00:38:50.984 Mira Brancu: kind of tunnel vision, narrow mindedness about your impact. Right? Or open mindedness, broad thinking, abundant, thinking right. The the leader who
00:38:51.650 --> 00:39:13.690 Mira Brancu: sponsors people recognizes that you can have both, and they can look good with their talent and showing off their talent and their talent could also benefit the person who is fully aware, but hiding their people because they want their people for themselves, and they want the credit for themselves, and they want the notoriety or the recognition for themselves.
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:21.750 Mira Brancu: It it actually th. Those departments don't reach a higher level of success, I mean
00:39:21.930 --> 00:39:27.109 Mira Brancu: for a short while, maybe, but everybody burns out and leaves, and that looks bad.
00:39:27.670 --> 00:39:28.180 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Yeah.
00:39:29.190 --> 00:39:57.379 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Yeah. Well, so in the military one of the things you know you, you needed to have an exec officer when you were like, you know, at my level, at the role of a hospital commander or CEO. But you didn't have one that was authorized to you on the books that came, you know, out of hide, so to speak. And I said, every one of my direct reports underneath me. Every subordinate commander had to offer up someone.
00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:02.049 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and typically no one ever took it from the clinical realm
00:40:02.150 --> 00:40:05.159 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: because they're like, well, you can't take a clinician.
00:40:05.490 --> 00:40:12.070 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: How could you take a clinician? We don't have enough of them out here, and that'll hurt, you know our access.
00:40:12.490 --> 00:40:14.400 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: I'm like, oh.
00:40:15.130 --> 00:40:22.550 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: I'm a physician. I'm tired of seeing us. Say, we can't provide opportunities equally. I had a physician.
00:40:23.080 --> 00:40:26.690 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Kristen is one of my last exec officers.
00:40:27.660 --> 00:40:30.090 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and we found a way to do it.
00:40:30.650 --> 00:40:44.119 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: you know, and it was just like to getting some people that had the talent. But we're in these. Well, we just can't create the opportunity for them. They're too, you know, too scarce or too important. No.
00:40:44.410 --> 00:40:50.899 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: if they are going to be leaders in this bigger, broader organization at the Air Force.
00:40:51.140 --> 00:40:53.479 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and they have the greatest potential.
00:40:53.680 --> 00:40:58.970 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: It's my job to find a way for us to still get the mission done, and let them have this
00:40:59.300 --> 00:41:03.109 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: opportunity. If they are the right person, and earned it.
00:41:03.580 --> 00:41:19.869 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I I love that. And it. I mean, you're you're making a an extremely strong case. Why, each individual leader at other levels can be a sponsor. But it's really important for the topmost leader, the CEO, the Exec.
00:41:20.500 --> 00:41:31.409 Mira Brancu: to own that sponsorship as part of the culture in order to really support everyone, to be able to do it well, and for that to be a trickle down effect. I'm wondering
00:41:31.970 --> 00:41:46.280 Mira Brancu: now, the Flip, if I'm an individual contributor within an organization I would love to become visible. You know. I I want to have opportunities. I want to be challenged. I don't know how this whole
00:41:46.450 --> 00:41:48.959 Mira Brancu: access to sponsorship stuff works.
00:41:49.110 --> 00:41:50.339 Mira Brancu: What would I do.
00:41:52.050 --> 00:42:02.410 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Find something. You're passionate about something, you see, that needs to be fixed, and go after it and
00:42:02.580 --> 00:42:03.899 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: jump in
00:42:04.460 --> 00:42:13.509 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and offer to help, but not in a way of complaining and saying, This is broken. This is wrong. Be the solution.
00:42:14.220 --> 00:42:23.080 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: If you are the solution person. And I really think that's why I was recognized by the sponsor that I talked to you about.
00:42:23.080 --> 00:42:46.940 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: He let my out of the box. I mean, you know the joke was. I was sometimes so far out of the box. I didn't know where the box was, but so was this general officer, so I think we shared that kinship of thinking outside the box, but in a way to get the mission done. We had creative thinking.
00:42:47.090 --> 00:42:48.760 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: but we were
00:42:49.410 --> 00:43:02.080 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: people that were both aligned to like. I can do it, and when you get told well, you can't do it that way by somebody more senior. Don't give up. Just be part of the solution.
00:43:02.160 --> 00:43:28.339 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: But try to raise your hand for things that you are passionate about. Don't just take on a task because somebody needs somebody to go set up this social event, and you're not like a social event. Person. Find something you're passionate about, because you won't mind putting in that extra effort or find a problem that somebody isn't recognized that needs to be fixed.
00:43:28.600 --> 00:43:30.220 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I mean.
00:43:30.220 --> 00:43:30.880 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Solution.
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:39.429 Mira Brancu: Totally the things that I got involved with without any expectation, where things just bothered me that I wanted to improve right. And I was like.
00:43:39.650 --> 00:43:46.239 Mira Brancu: did anybody mind if I just fix this thing? You know, I just offered my time right and
00:43:47.520 --> 00:43:48.900 Mira Brancu: so so
00:43:49.260 --> 00:44:17.979 Mira Brancu: I would say yes and share what you're doing, you know. Don't. Don't just assume that if you like, go in and you solve things, it will be visible. This comes into like what you were saying about like self promotion is not a dirty word. It's just communicating what you just did. All you're doing is sharing like, hey? I'm so excited I just did this thing, and I feel really much better about how we're running things I just wanted to share. You know, that kind of thing helps you. Your work become visible.
00:44:19.290 --> 00:44:23.120 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Yeah, yeah, and know what the organization's problems are.
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:27.889 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Because, remember, you're trying to help the senior leaders solve problems.
00:44:28.350 --> 00:44:40.590 Mira Brancu: Absolutely always connected to like. Am I helping the organization move forward while I'm also doing things that like drive me, and, you know, energize me. So we are reaching another ad break, Linda. So
00:44:40.590 --> 00:45:00.010 Mira Brancu: when we come back I have one more meaty question for you, and then I definitely want to open it up to anything else that we missed, that you want to make sure our audience knows about. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mara Branku and our guest today, Dr. Linda Lawrence, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:46:35.790 --> 00:46:43.809 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Linda Lawrence, who's talking with us about sponsorship today.
00:46:44.100 --> 00:46:59.549 Mira Brancu: So we've we've talked about. You know, the definition of sponsorship, how it's different from mentorship, like the the strength of it. You know how you really, go about creating a successful sponsorship program like, where do you start?
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:06.960 Mira Brancu: I was at this meeting where I was consulting to a large global group
00:47:07.090 --> 00:47:15.059 Mira Brancu: about a training program, and it was focused on one of their sort of marginalized populations that they were supporting.
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:23.130 Mira Brancu: And they said, Please don't recommend a sponsorship program, and they put their head in their hands. And I'm like
00:47:23.300 --> 00:47:44.782 Mira Brancu: what I and I thought, I wonder what the story is behind this like. They must have had some awful nightmare experience putting it into play, and I just kept. I was so curious I didn't ask, so I never found out but a few things come to mind that could have happened.
00:47:45.430 --> 00:47:53.780 Mira Brancu: one, I thought. Well, maybe there was performative sponsorship people who said that they would do it, but didn't actually do it, or whatever fell off
00:47:54.316 --> 00:48:03.850 Mira Brancu: could be. Dirty politics related to sponsorship people using other people to, you know, as an a means to an end, but not an actual opportunity.
00:48:03.980 --> 00:48:09.449 Mira Brancu: And I'm just wondering. Have you seen failures of sponsorship?
00:48:10.017 --> 00:48:17.950 Mira Brancu: What? What are the problematic ways or the pitfalls of engaging in sponsorship that we should look out for.
00:48:21.030 --> 00:48:22.450 Mira Brancu: And you're you're on mute.
00:48:24.200 --> 00:48:45.559 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Sorry when you tell that story. I have to wonder if it's not the ultimate lesson I learned at the near the end of my career when I was led, you know, leading the Air Force to transform to high reliability organization. And my Aha! Moment was, we do a lot of training.
00:48:45.560 --> 00:49:05.140 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: But we don't sustain the training. And a major reason is we bring in these programs and whatever it's about in this case, a sponsorship program. And we put it down in the organization, and we tell people to do something. But the leaders don't change, and we don't drive behavior.
00:49:05.140 --> 00:49:05.760 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:23.410 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: So we were just talking the last segment about how important it is about leaders and culture. So if you want to do something in an organization. I think you need to find out 1st of all, what is going on in the organization.
00:49:23.590 --> 00:49:35.560 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And where is your opportunity there? And how is everybody going to be part of it? So where is your misbalance? And usually it's
00:49:35.760 --> 00:50:01.039 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: marginalized communities that are being left behind. So typically, how do we get more white males to be allies. How do we make all leaders have action, and how does it get driven from the top? And changing culture is about behaviors, both what we accept and what we turn around and turn a blind eye to, too. You know.
00:50:02.890 --> 00:50:04.090 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:50:04.090 --> 00:50:08.540 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: So if you want to do that, that's where you need to
00:50:08.850 --> 00:50:25.570 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: be focused. So that's not I think it really, if you really want to do something that really requires kind of taking an organizational look, maybe bringing in the right consultant to help you with that or
00:50:26.090 --> 00:50:52.219 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: you know just having the right leadership. I am going to give one resource. It is, I think, one of the best books out there for everybody to read. It's called Good Guys, how men can be better allies for women in the workplace. It's written by David Smith and Brad Johnson. I had the opportunity of meeting and speaking with Brad Johnson a few times on panels
00:50:52.230 --> 00:51:06.919 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: together in the military, and they talk about this, and they talk at the end of the book about just some different things that you can do in your organization. So if you're just looking for a resource check their website out. But
00:51:07.080 --> 00:51:08.110 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: you know.
00:51:08.140 --> 00:51:38.119 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: I think that's the place to start. There's not a 1 size fits all for an organization to do. Because where is your organization coming up short? How bad are your politics in the organization. But this is where we went wrong with mentorship is we've and we still do it. We create all these mentor programs, and they're thrown down.
00:51:38.390 --> 00:51:54.849 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And this is often a lot of women. You know, it's those that need quote are being left behind. Do the mentoring get no credit for it, and it doesn't budge the needle women are over mentored under sponsored Harvard Business Review had an article in 2010,
00:51:54.900 --> 00:52:09.379 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: 2025, Mckenzie report lean and still saying the same thing. We got to move the needle by action, and I really think it's by changing the culture in the workplace, and it has to kind of start from the top up.
00:52:10.180 --> 00:52:10.900 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:52:11.110 --> 00:52:21.219 Mira Brancu: excellent, excellent. So, Linda, is there anything? That we haven't touched on? Something that you want to leave the audience with? That's really important.
00:52:22.370 --> 00:52:38.530 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Well, I think you know, we have talked a lot about the role of leaders I just want, if you are, you know, somebody young, just starting out your career. It's incumbent upon you, too, to go out there, and don't be shy.
00:52:38.860 --> 00:52:39.780 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: you know.
00:52:40.050 --> 00:52:41.380 Mira Brancu: Go, have.
00:52:41.530 --> 00:52:46.339 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Coffee. Go ahead and ask for coffee with somebody more senior.
00:52:46.490 --> 00:53:10.009 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Here's a great intro way to do it, too. To say I'd love to learn more about why you went into what you're doing, who doesn't love to talk about their role or their, you know career, never turn down an opportunity that you might have to meet with somebody 2 or 3 rungs up, and just be authentic about yourself.
00:53:10.180 --> 00:53:13.769 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: Be be who you are, because that's what they're looking for
00:53:14.020 --> 00:53:35.960 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: and believe in yourself and believe in what you have to what you have to contribute. If you are a leader in an organization, do a gut check. What are you doing to find how to bring other people up more equitably? What are you doing to find new talent in the organization.
00:53:36.580 --> 00:53:45.470 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And if you're if you're you know, introverted or shy like I used to be. And many people are, one way or another.
00:53:45.768 --> 00:54:10.859 Mira Brancu: feeling nervous about approaching people that you really admire. You could also see if they know some people that you know, and see if you could have, like a warm introduction with an intermediary like, can we all meet together? We have shared interests or so and so you know. Can you help me do a warm intro to me, so that it's easier for me to set up that meeting, or something like that? It makes it much, much easier. Right?
00:54:11.181 --> 00:54:16.710 Mira Brancu: Where can people go to find more about you and your work? If they want to work with you?
00:54:17.600 --> 00:54:43.050 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: I would love to speak with anybody. Please check out my website. Www, people alwayshcc.com. I have a button on there where you can just schedule a time to talk under, revitalize women physician circles where you can find a little bit more on organizations where I talk about working with organizations up at the top.
00:54:43.530 --> 00:54:49.100 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: on the button organizations, on working on what we were talking about.
00:54:49.870 --> 00:55:15.740 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: And whereas it talks about, you know, promoting women physicians, I do work more broadly with just healthcare organizations or any organization. For that matter I can work with after my immense experience with the working within the Air Force. I just love this whole concept. I have to say I think it is the game changer
00:55:16.284 --> 00:55:23.359 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: for fruitful careers, and it's something that I have enjoyed most is getting
00:55:24.070 --> 00:55:42.630 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: to be a sponsor. I wish I had understood it earlier in my career. It was about halfway through my career before I made that click over from mentoring to sponsor, and I hope you know the young ones don't wait as long as I did. Those that are a little more senior in your career
00:55:43.090 --> 00:55:53.590 Linda Lawrence MD, CPE, PCC, FACEP: be looking for that sponsorship if you're not up at the top, but also you're probably somewhere in there where you could be sponsoring somebody, too. You don't have to be all the way at the top to be the sponsor either.
00:55:53.820 --> 00:56:00.779 Mira Brancu: That's absolutely true. I mean, the moment that I realized that people came to me
00:56:01.130 --> 00:56:08.290 Mira Brancu: for mentorship and understanding how to navigate complex systems.
00:56:09.030 --> 00:56:14.259 Mira Brancu: I realized I also had a certain level of power and privilege that I can offer to them.
00:56:14.300 --> 00:56:41.869 Mira Brancu: And when I could, I did. And it it's it's delightful. I what can I say? You know, like it's very. It's just very rewarding to feel like you could be that person that can connect a really talented person to an opportunity. You still get credit for that, and you don't have to do the work either, like somebody else is excited for it. You don't have to hoard all of the work right? So, anyway. Audience, what did you take away?
00:56:41.970 --> 00:56:55.039 Mira Brancu: And, more importantly, what is one small change? She wanted you to take away one thing that you were going to do right? What is one small change you can implement this week, based on what you learned from Linda, share it with us on Linkedin.
00:56:55.387 --> 00:57:13.459 Mira Brancu: at Linda Lawrence, or at Mira Branco, or@talkradio.nyc. So we could cheer you on. We are also on all the other social media platforms and the podcast platforms. So, help us increase our visibility and reach and impact by leaving a review on some of those platforms.
00:57:13.690 --> 00:57:27.279 Mira Brancu: The stuff we talk about on this show is also part of my research, based strategic leadership, pathway, roadmap that I use to help organizations and leaders, and you can check us out@gotowerscope.com.
00:57:27.580 --> 00:57:39.169 Mira Brancu: and thank you to talkradio dot Nyc. For hosting. Thank you for joining us today with our guest, Dr. Linda Lawrence, and have a wonderful rest of your day wherever you are tuning in from.
00:57:39.460 --> 00:57:41.250 Mira Brancu: Take care, bye, everybody.
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