EPISODE SUMMARY:
This week, on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam is pleased to welcome Psychedelic Author & Researcher, David Jay Brown.
David is the author of The Illustrated Field Guide to DMT Entities, Dreaming Wide Awake: Lucid Dreaming, Shamanic Healing and Psychedelics, and The New Science of Psychedelics.
He is also the coauthor of seven bestselling volumes of interviews with leading-edge thinkers, Mavericks of the Mind, Voices from the Edge, Conversations on the Edge of the Apocalypse, Mavericks of Medicine, Frontiers of Psychedelic Consciousness, Women of Visionary Art, and his newest book Psychedelics and the Coming Singularity.
Brown holds a master’s degree in psychobiology from New York University, and was responsible for the California-based research in two of British biologist Rupert Sheldrake’s books on unexplained phenomena in science: Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home and The Sense of Being Stared At. His work has appeared in numerous magazines, including Wired, Discover, and Scientific American, and he was the Senior Editor of the special edition, themed MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) Bulletins.
Tune in and share all of your questions and comments about psychedelics on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
www.davidjaybrown.com
https://amzn.to/3ZZk0ab
Sam Liebowitz opens the first 2025 episode of The Conscious Consultant Hour by reflecting on the profound idea that feeling good without any external reason is a remarkable achievement. He encourages listeners to examine the deep-seated beliefs and societal conditioning that make sustaining positive emotions difficult, emphasizing that our natural state is one of well-being, unburdened by the need to "earn" happiness. This thought-provoking introduction sets the stage for a deeper exploration of consciousness with guest David J. Brown, a psychedelic author dedicated to expanding human awareness to navigate global challenges.
David J. Brown shares a profound, unexplained experience involving mysterious lights exhibiting sentience and resulting in missing time, reflecting on its deep spiritual impact. He discusses how psychedelics have historically facilitated healing and spiritual connection, suggesting their modern resurgence is Earth's intelligent response to humanity's ecological crisis, fostering environmental awareness and unity. Brown's lifelong curiosity about consciousness and reality inspired his work interviewing visionary thinkers, driven by a passion for exploring life’s deepest questions.
In this segment, David J. Brown discusses the concept of the "singularity," a point where artificial intelligence surpasses human intelligence, leading to rapid, unpredictable advancements. He emphasizes the historical connection between psychedelics and technology, noting that many early Silicon Valley innovators, including Steve Jobs, used psychedelics to enhance creativity and problem-solving. Brown suggests that psychedelics, when used intentionally, can help balance the logic-driven world of AI with a deeper, more spiritual intelligence, fostering a harmonious future for both technology and humanity.
In this segment, David reflects on his favorite interviews, mentioning thought leaders like Terrence McKenna, Rupert Sheldrake, and Matthew Fox, who have shaped his spiritual journey. He shares how psychedelics, meditation, and lucid dreaming have deepened his understanding of consciousness, connecting him to a greater sense of unity and higher intelligence. Looking to the future, David envisions a world where psychedelics and technology merge, leading to new possibilities for spiritual growth, while also announcing his upcoming book on DMT entities, set for release in February.
00:00:27.590 --> 00:00:47.439 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators. Good morning. Good evening. Wherever you're tuning in from welcome to the conscious consult now awakening humanity. Our 1st show of 2025. Thank you all for being with us. I've got a wonderful, wonderful guest I'm looking to, really excited to bring on.
00:00:47.440 --> 00:01:02.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: but I do want to start off with my blog post, as I always do with all my shows, and this is from a couple of years ago. I'm going to try and get through this as quickly as possible, but there's a lot to it, and the title of this blog for us to kick off the New Year is
00:01:03.170 --> 00:01:08.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: being able to feel good, for no reason is a great achievement.
00:01:09.510 --> 00:01:16.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We all want to feel good. It is a natural drive to increase the amount of time we feel wonderful.
00:01:17.180 --> 00:01:20.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So why do we have such a hard time doing it?
00:01:21.310 --> 00:01:28.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is amazing how what we want so badly is so hard for us to hold.
00:01:29.290 --> 00:01:33.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for we all have a limit on how long we can feel good.
00:01:34.140 --> 00:01:40.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is it a day, a week, a month, perhaps even shorter.
00:01:40.800 --> 00:01:43.489 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like an hour or a few minutes.
00:01:45.470 --> 00:01:54.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we take a moment to stop and look at how long we can allow ourselves to feel good, we can learn a lot.
00:01:55.500 --> 00:02:00.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Our beliefs around feeling good are deep and ingrained.
00:02:02.540 --> 00:02:04.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Do we deserve to feel good?
00:02:05.010 --> 00:02:11.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Have we earned the right to feel good? What have we done to help others to feel good?
00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:19.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is truly fascinating how many conditions we put on just feeling good, where we are.
00:02:21.790 --> 00:02:32.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: how we must somehow earn the right or deserve the right to feel good instead of just allowing it to be okay.
00:02:33.350 --> 00:02:36.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: why do we need to work at feeling good.
00:02:36.610 --> 00:02:44.779 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The whole notion of having to earn or deserve feeling good is actually something man-made and not natural.
00:02:45.920 --> 00:02:55.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we look at babies that have not yet been conditioned by society, they laugh and they smile for no reason at all.
00:02:55.970 --> 00:02:59.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Feeling good is our natural state of being.
00:02:59.500 --> 00:03:02.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is not something to work at or create.
00:03:03.660 --> 00:03:11.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Of course, for those of us who have experienced trauma and extreme pain. It may not feel that way.
00:03:11.350 --> 00:03:16.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: because the trauma and pain were not natural to begin with.
00:03:16.780 --> 00:03:19.859 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so they affect our natural feelings.
00:03:20.760 --> 00:03:25.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Feeling good is actually not something to work at.
00:03:26.040 --> 00:03:32.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is just something to allow, and the truly interesting thing
00:03:33.160 --> 00:03:38.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is that the more we allow it, the more great stuff comes our way.
00:03:39.160 --> 00:03:44.029 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So feeling good creates more opportunity for us to feel good
00:03:44.770 --> 00:03:51.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the better we feel on a daily basis, the more experiences and situations come to us
00:03:52.220 --> 00:03:59.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that support our feeling good, and the opposite is also true.
00:03:59.340 --> 00:04:03.969 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the worse we feel the more bad feeling stuff comes our way.
00:04:04.320 --> 00:04:18.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So in the end, the more we focus on feeling good, and allowing that feeling to continue for as long as we can supports us, having the life we have always wanted.
00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:28.249 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: letting go. Of all the voices in our head, and all the stories we have made about. Why we should not feel good
00:04:28.380 --> 00:04:35.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is our deep inner work when we allow ourselves to feel good for no reason at all.
00:04:36.050 --> 00:04:42.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or just for being alive, we have truly achieved, achieved something great.
00:04:43.730 --> 00:04:49.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So what do you need to release in order to feel good more of the time?
00:04:49.770 --> 00:04:56.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Are there stories you have created about why you should not feel good, that you want to change.
00:04:57.850 --> 00:05:09.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So I have to admit, like this is not original thought or original idea by me. This is something that I was just pondering on after reading the book.
00:05:09.850 --> 00:05:15.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The Big Leap, by Gay Hendrix, which is a wonderful book, and I highly recommend it.
00:05:16.060 --> 00:05:36.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But it it just. And it was interesting because I was reading the book, and then it was brought up in ceremony about. You know what's wrong with just feeling good for the sake of feeling good like, why do we always put so much conditionings and and reasons why this needs to happen, or that needs to happen.
00:05:36.770 --> 00:05:44.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it was really just a fascinating thing to look at for myself that, like
00:05:44.430 --> 00:05:48.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I don't know. Maybe it's an unworthiness thing that just
00:05:48.460 --> 00:06:01.049 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: feeling good for no reason at all, is really something difficult for myself and for most people to achieve. Now, I admit I've done work around this, and I'm much, much better than I used to be.
00:06:02.260 --> 00:06:08.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But even to this day, you know, when when I'm just feeling good
00:06:08.940 --> 00:06:13.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for a long period of time, you know, something comes up.
00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:16.880 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: something happens that can take me out of it.
00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:28.769 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and it's not a conscious like. Oh, I've got to stop feeling good. It's more kind of a bit of an unconscious automatic type of thing.
00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:33.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so it just
00:06:34.300 --> 00:06:45.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: when I wrote this blog post, I just thought it was worth starting the conversation. I mean, it's it's not sort of answering the question necessarily that much.
00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:49.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: but it's just something to think about
00:06:49.290 --> 00:06:52.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: something to ponder on, something to just
00:06:52.170 --> 00:06:56.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: look at and be a little more aware, a little more conscious of
00:06:57.620 --> 00:07:03.969 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: how much in our life do we allow ourselves to feel good, to just feel good about
00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:09.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: our relationships, what we've achieved, our home, our friends.
00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:15.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and not worry so much about all these external things that may or may not
00:07:16.740 --> 00:07:19.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: even affect us on a day-to-day basis.
00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:25.969 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now, look, I'm not saying to be Pollyanna. I'm not saying to stick your head in the ground and ignore life.
00:07:29.280 --> 00:07:35.880 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But maybe maybe we can find a way to just feel better.
00:07:36.400 --> 00:07:42.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And by feeling better we can actually cultivate and live as an example for other people.
00:07:43.510 --> 00:07:46.669 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and how they can feel better themselves.
00:07:46.800 --> 00:08:09.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So that's my blog post to kick us off for 2025. The title, again is being able to feel good, for no reason is a great achievement, and of course you can always find my blog on theconsciousconsultant.com or on talkradio dot Nyc slash blog.
00:08:09.910 --> 00:08:10.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well.
00:08:10.750 --> 00:08:29.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: now it is my extreme pleasure to welcome to the show psychedelic author and researcher, David J. Brown. David is the author of the Illuminated Field Guide to Dmt. Entities, Dreaming Awake, lucid Dreaming, Shamanic Healing, and Psychedelics, and the New Science of Psychedelics.
00:08:29.950 --> 00:08:43.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: He is also the co-author of 7 bestselling volumes of interviews with leading edge thinkers, including such titles as Mavericks of the Mind, Voices from the Edge
00:08:43.220 --> 00:08:53.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Conversations on the Edge of the apocalypse frontiers of psychedelic Consciousness woman of visionary art and his newest book.
00:08:53.470 --> 00:08:57.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Psychedelics and the Coming Singularity, which is, we're going to
00:08:57.670 --> 00:09:18.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: talk about a bit today. David Brown holds a Master's degree from psychobiology, from Nyu, New York University, and was responsible for the California-based research in 2 of British biologists. Rupert Sheldrake's books on unexplained phenomena in science.
00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:40.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The titles of those were dogs that know when their owners are coming home, and the sense of being stared at. His work has appeared in numerous magazines, including wire Discovered and Scientific American, and he was the senior editor of the special edition, themed Maps, Bulletins for the Multiple Indicationary Association for Psychedelic Studies.
00:09:41.690 --> 00:09:48.729 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: One of the Premier Psychedelic research organizations. Welcome to the conscious consultant hour. David.
00:09:48.930 --> 00:09:54.739 David: Well, thank you, Sam, thank you for your wise words and for that wonderful introduction. It's a great pleasure to be here today.
00:09:54.740 --> 00:10:09.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate you. Taking the time to be here. I was really floored at the volumes and volumes of books that you've written around consciousness, psychedelics like all of these sort of mind expanding things.
00:10:09.270 --> 00:10:30.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I'm just curious. Was this something that you got into at a very young age. Were you always someone who was like thinking about different, weird things? Or was this something that kind of, you know? Was there some incident, or something that happened when you're in college or after college. You know that kind of put you on this path because you obviously are very embedded in this path.
00:10:30.390 --> 00:10:53.050 David: Yeah, as you said, I'm 1 of those people who were always interested in these kind of weird things, I guess, is a way to put it, but you know my interest in consciousness has been since I was, you know, before I was even a teenager I was interested in dreams. I always had a great dream recall. I began practicing transcendental meditation when I was just 14 years old.
00:10:53.050 --> 00:11:00.449 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I was always interested in the unusual states of consciousness and the paranormal and the occult.
00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:13.309 David: And different things like that. And this sort of led to an interest, and as a teenager in cannabis. And I had my 1st psychedelic experience when I was just 16 years old.
00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:36.859 David: So you know, then, that led, you know, that led me on a path and an adventure towards studying psychobiology and neuroscience and the origins of consciousness. And so I've been thinking about these things for a long time. But there was, you know, no real specific incident that triggered it. It's for as long as I could remember. I've always been interested in these.
00:11:37.640 --> 00:11:39.650 David: That's a fascinating area.
00:11:39.650 --> 00:11:55.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Very cool, very cool, and you've like written so many books and co-authored so many books. What got you? I mean? It's 1 thing to have an interest in this. But what got you to like? Want to publish this and put this out there publicly and like. Tell all these stories.
00:11:56.472 --> 00:12:05.069 David: You know. Well, when I was a teenager on one of my psychedelic experiences, I had this sense of
00:12:05.430 --> 00:12:33.850 David: connection with the divine or connection with a higher intelligence, and I made a commitment at that point to do what I could during my lifetime to help accelerate the evolution of consciousness to help people become more conscious. So that was really the inspiration behind. Why, I've written all these books and why I've been exploring this for so many years is because I feel like I'm on a kind of a mission
00:12:33.850 --> 00:12:53.259 David: to to help, to help people become more conscious and more aware, because I think that the human species has is in a crisis. So the ecological crisis, political crisis and different things, and I think that nothing is more important than than expanding and accelerating consciousness and intelligence.
00:12:53.580 --> 00:13:04.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So aligned my brother. So aligned. I mean, I did a whole talk. I actually, I had an opportunity in 2016 to do a Ted talk called the Technology of Consciousness.
00:13:04.950 --> 00:13:18.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I was basically the whole gist of the talk was around how we tend to look for technical solutions to problems. Sometimes, when really the best solution is raising people's consciousness around a topic.
00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:38.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and how, when we shift people's consciousness that, like all kinds of solutions can start to appear that we never could have thought of otherwise. So I'm with you there. I'm very glad to hear a fellow consciousness supporter, I should say, I guess.
00:13:39.493 --> 00:13:44.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So I'm just curious. What was the very 1st book you came out with.
00:13:44.950 --> 00:13:48.040 David: My 1st book was a Science Fiction novel, actually.
00:13:48.040 --> 00:13:48.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh!
00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:54.264 David: Brainchild, which was, I wrote that book before?
00:13:55.170 --> 00:14:16.719 David: you know, long before the psychedelic Renaissance. So in my early books I was very careful about mentioning psychedelics. So it was kind of a veiled, you know, veiled treatment of my psychedelic experiences. I used electrical brain stimulation as kind of a metaphor for it from what I was working on in graduate school. But
00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:31.179 David: but my my 1st book of interviews was was published shortly after that Mavericks of the mind which was actually just recently republished in the in the 3rd edition. But that's when I began talking to different thinkers like Terrence Mckenna and.
00:14:31.180 --> 00:14:31.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I mean.
00:14:31.790 --> 00:14:35.689 David: Timothy Leary and Rupert Sheldrake, and you know.
00:14:35.880 --> 00:14:40.449 David: and others who who have been a big part of my my growth in these areas.
00:14:40.870 --> 00:14:44.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful wonderful. So I I
00:14:44.920 --> 00:14:52.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: well, I'm going to save the question till after we come back, because I do want to ask you if there's anything outside of the psychedelic experiences that
00:14:52.700 --> 00:15:05.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: were unexplainable that you've had, because I know many people once they start down this path that sometime during their life like things happen that are just beyond explanation. That to me
00:15:06.050 --> 00:15:15.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: can kind of indicate something, too. But we'll see. But we do have to take our 1st break. So I want to get it out of the way first, st and then we'll come back and we'll talk about that. Okay.
00:15:16.090 --> 00:15:16.730 David: Sounds good.
00:15:16.730 --> 00:15:32.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then we'll dive into the book. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. Welcome to all my loyal listeners for 2025, and we'll be right back with our guest, David J. Brown, in just a moment.
00:17:18.490 --> 00:17:31.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We're speaking this hour with Author David J. Brown, author of the New book, psychedelics and the coming singularity.
00:17:31.630 --> 00:17:52.629 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so I do want to dive into psychedelics because it is a favorite topic of mine on the show. But I'm just curious because you've been in this world of consciousness, expanding and trying to open people's mind to different things. Have you had any experiences other than your psychedelic experiences that you would say were like
00:17:52.800 --> 00:17:59.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: beyond explanation, that, you know, kind of defy the traditional way we think of reality.
00:18:00.330 --> 00:18:11.520 David: And I have had so many experiences that go beyond what conventional science or understanding can explain. I wouldn't even know where to begin. I've had so many, just one.
00:18:11.520 --> 00:18:12.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Just one.
00:18:12.420 --> 00:18:31.439 David: Well, let me just say, you know I've had many lucid dreams. I've had many synchronicities, unexplained coincidences that have happened. But let me share with you what one very profound, unexplainable phenomena that I still question to this day what happened?
00:18:31.812 --> 00:18:45.570 David: I was. I was in the bathroom when I was living with my when I was living in the Santa Cruz Mountains, and was with my girlfriend in the in the bathroom, and the lights were out, and we were kissing in the bathroom.
00:18:45.650 --> 00:18:53.689 David: and I look out of the window, and and there is what looks like somebody shining a flashlight directly onto us.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:19:06.389 David: and I thought this was a very odd, because we lived in a very remote area and couldn't understand why somebody would be on the property at, you know, late at night, shining a flashlight in the window at us, and
00:19:06.390 --> 00:19:25.579 David: so we sort of got closer and looked over at the window. And as we're looking at this light that's shining directly onto us, the light suddenly rises into the air and suddenly starts changing colors and suddenly starts flashing stroboscopically. And the next thing you know, there's just like this array of just like.
00:19:25.580 --> 00:19:31.659 David: you know, red and orange and yellow lights flashing, you know, in the mountains illuminating the trees.
00:19:31.660 --> 00:19:51.070 David: and there was this uncanny feeling that there was a kind of sentience or a kind of intelligence that went along with these lights, and we just stood there mesmerized, watching this go on for what seemed to be like, maybe around a half an hour or so.
00:19:51.070 --> 00:19:51.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, wow!
00:19:51.750 --> 00:19:56.609 David: And and then this just suddenly stopped as abruptly as it started.
00:19:56.800 --> 00:19:57.389 David: And
00:19:58.540 --> 00:20:07.949 David: And then the the other really odd thing was that you know. We went up and looked at the clock afterwards, and I thought that only 30 min had gone by.
00:20:07.950 --> 00:20:32.779 David: but well, over 3 h had gone by, and we just could not account for this loss of all this time. So you know. Still, to this day, I wonder what it was that happened since then I discovered the possibility of earth lights because we were in an earthquake prone area as one possible explanation. But why? You know why it seemed to have that focus of that light directly
00:20:32.780 --> 00:20:33.789 David: on us initially.
00:20:34.290 --> 00:20:46.279 David: wasn't explained by Earth lights and the sentient of the intelligence and the unaccounted time. So it was a deeply, deeply mysterious experience that I still wonder about today.
00:20:46.550 --> 00:20:53.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Did when you were experiencing it? Did it bring up any fear or just curiosity and wonder.
00:20:53.620 --> 00:21:04.539 David: It was just curiosity, and I mean there was initial fear when I thought it was somebody with a you know flashlight shining when I thought it was a human being, you know, outside the window, when we realized that it was not a human being
00:21:05.010 --> 00:21:24.840 David: outside the window. I think it was just being mesmerized, you know. I mean, it was almost, almost, you know, hypnotized in a way, by the experience. But there wasn't really fear. You know. I brought the experience up to John Mack, the psychiatric researcher from Harvard, who
00:21:24.970 --> 00:21:40.089 David: who was researching the alien abduction phenomena, and he was very intrigued by this experience, and he thought that you know he wanted to put me under under hypnosis to see if there was some other material that he could bring up, and but unfortunately he died an unfortunate accident
00:21:40.550 --> 00:21:50.780 David: that happened so we never got to do that. So you know, I just, I wonder to this day you know what what went on during those 3 h that we that we can't remember.
00:21:50.950 --> 00:21:58.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's interesting. It'd be curious if something if there is something more there.
00:22:00.970 --> 00:22:19.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so you you worked with Rupert Sheldrake whose books I love, where he talks about the morphogenic fields, and how you know when a group of people put their consciousness towards something that it actually creates this field of energy that can live on beyond like the group itself. In some ways.
00:22:20.040 --> 00:22:22.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You.
00:22:22.800 --> 00:22:43.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I mean, you've had so many great things. What got you started with the idea of doing like all these books of like multiple interviews of people like most people write a book, it's like one thing, but your style seems to be. You love interviewing like dozens of really leading edge thinkers and bringing them together in your books.
00:22:43.650 --> 00:22:46.150 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What kind of got you in that direction?
00:22:46.350 --> 00:23:06.649 David: Well, that adventure really began when I was in my mid twenties, when I was around the age of 26, my girlfriend and I, Rebecca Mcclellan Novik, who I did my 1st 2 interview books, Mavericks of the Mind, and Voices from the edge with, We used to sit up late at night and get stoned, and
00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:16.890 David: and talk about philosophical questions. What is the nature of reality? What happens to consciousness after death? What's the nature of God?
00:23:16.890 --> 00:23:23.660 David: The big questions, and we discussed these things into the late hours. And we just suddenly one night got this
00:23:23.660 --> 00:23:48.200 David: audacious idea that wouldn't it be great to ask the great minds, the great thinkers whose books we had been reading, and people who had thought about these things their whole lives, to ask these questions, because we really saw in most interviews that people were doing. They weren't really asking these deep philosophical questions. They were just interviewing them about the current things going on in their life or their work.
00:23:48.320 --> 00:24:08.109 David: And we really wanted to ask these big questions. So that was what inspired us to do. The 1st book, mavericks of the mind, and we already had. I already had connections to a lot of these people I knew I already knew Terrence Mckenna, and I knew Timothy Leary and I knew some of these people, so we had a good start to it.
00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:32.759 David: And once we began, we really couldn't stop. And all the interview books that I've done since then have really been inspired by that same curiosity. What do people think about the big questions, the nature of reality, or what happens to consciousness after death, or these kinds of things so virtually everybody that I've interviewed throughout my career. I've asked those kind of questions to.
00:24:33.410 --> 00:24:35.052 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right. Wow, wow!
00:24:35.810 --> 00:24:57.189 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So I do want to start getting into some of the deeper questions. So psychedelics is a big part of of your inquiry of what you're about like you mentioned. You know you experienced them from a young age, so did I in high school. It's hard to believe it's been that many years.
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:13.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What do you think the purpose of psychedelics like like? Why did these sacred substances come into sort of our general awareness in the last, you know. What's it? Been? 60 years.
00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:43.250 David: Yeah, you know, I wondered about that in my own personal life. I wonder what it was that drew me to them like I said, I was always curious about the nature of consciousness. I wondered if it was traumas that happened when I was a child that drew me to the healing potential of psychedelics. They've certainly been used by indigenous cultures since prehistory as methods for healing.
00:25:43.500 --> 00:26:04.769 David: And I, you know, I wonder what it is that's caused this Renaissance, this sudden interest, because, you know, for the longest time, I mean, it was something I had to keep secret. It was something because it was criminalized, demonized, ridiculed, or ignored by the by, the mainstream culture for for much of my much of my early life.
00:26:04.780 --> 00:26:24.190 David: And then, you know, all of a sudden right around the time I wrote an article for Scientific American about the Healing potential of Psychedelics back in 2,008 and began working with maps. The Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies at that time. And right around that time there was like suddenly a shift.
00:26:24.190 --> 00:26:42.859 David: You know. It sort of started with Rick Straussman's research back in the 19 nineties with his Dmt. Studies. And suddenly there was this kind of you know, this Renaissance that was occurring where every major university was suddenly doing research into psychedelics.
00:26:42.860 --> 00:27:05.839 David: and you know what I think is causing it. You know what I think is going on is, I think, that nature is alive, that the planet Earth is intelligent, and we're in an ecological crisis right now. I mean, there's just been so much pollution and so much disregard for the environment because of the
00:27:05.840 --> 00:27:29.679 David: you know, the selfish growth of corporations and the disregard for how it's affected the environment. And we're now in a crisis right now, where we have at most really a few decades, just to turn things around. And you know, and what else turns somebody around, you know, overnight, like Scrooge in the Christmas Carol than a psychedelic experience. So I think this is Nature's way
00:27:29.730 --> 00:27:58.119 David: of helping to correct. For the you know, the almost like the cancer that human beings have become on the planet and help us, you know, develop a sustainable relationship as indigenous tribes and groups that have been using psychedelics usually develop a very symbiotic relationship with their environment because they sensitize us to the environment. They give us a sense of interconnection and
00:27:58.120 --> 00:28:07.009 David: and a sense that what we're doing to the environment we're really doing to ourselves. So so that's what I that's really what I think is is the
00:28:07.030 --> 00:28:12.239 David: is the thrust behind. Why, we're experiencing a Renaissance right now, and why they
00:28:12.300 --> 00:28:14.190 David: why, they're occurring in our world.
00:28:14.580 --> 00:28:44.539 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's called the Gaia principle. The idea that that you know Mother Gaia planet Earth is alive. And and it's very true. I mean, I've been back, you know, using psychedelics myself for the last 10 years, a little over 10 years now, after having done a lot in high school, and then not a lot in between, and kind of came back to it very sacredly. And it's something that I've seen among myself and friends. Other people. I know that as they
00:28:44.640 --> 00:29:06.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: experience these sacred substances as they heal their traumas, as they have a better sense of themselves and people around them that just naturally, you care more for the environment. You do more things to be sustainable. You're more concerned about these these kinds of topics. So yes, I fully fully get that.
00:29:06.660 --> 00:29:33.839 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay. It's time for us to take the next break. So when we come back, I want to start diving in about your latest book, Psychedelics and the Coming Singularity. And I thought it was quite interesting of you kind of marrying these 2 topics of sort of technology and psychedelics, because there are a lot of people out there right now who are very afraid of where technology is taking us. So I would like to dive into that when we come back. Okay.
00:29:34.520 --> 00:29:35.173 David: Sounds good.
00:29:35.500 --> 00:29:53.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Awesome. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We do this every Thursday 12 noon to one pm, Eastern time, right here on Talkradio, Dot, Nyc. And all over social media, and we'll be right back with our guest, David J. Brown, in just a moment.
00:31:30.070 --> 00:31:49.449 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. So, David, your most recent book is psychedelics and the coming singularity. So just so we're clear for our audience, who might not be as familiar with the term. What do you mean by singularity?
00:31:50.445 --> 00:31:54.329 David: Well, the singularity is a term that was
00:31:54.390 --> 00:32:18.139 David: that was borrowed from physics. In physics. The term singularity refers to a point where the known laws of physics break down, such as in the center of a black hole, or in the point prior to the Big Bang, where the mathematical laws of physics are no longer capable of predicting what's going to happen.
00:32:18.140 --> 00:32:29.980 David: The term was borrowed by Ray Kurzweil, the computer scientist, and others to describe the the point in computer evolution
00:32:30.100 --> 00:32:58.319 David: where the technology develops or evolves to the point where not only becomes greater artificial intelligence not only becomes equivalent and greater to human intelligence, but greater than collective human intelligence, and is able to self-improve itself. So the AI can produce better versions of the AI. And this causes kind of an explosion of growth and intelligence.
00:32:58.320 --> 00:33:08.320 David: And that point where that happens is what Kurzweil and others have termed the singularity. Because, again, our
00:33:08.330 --> 00:33:12.289 David: our inability to predict what will happen when we have a kind of
00:33:12.370 --> 00:33:24.710 David: computer super intelligence, you know, in our midst. So that's that's where the term comes from. And that's that's what I mean it. That's why I use it in my, in my book.
00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:27.719 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, I actually just saw an article
00:33:27.830 --> 00:33:53.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: from the former CEO of Google, who said that like, we really need a kill switch, because when that happens we don't know what's going to happen, so we want to be able to turn it off before we won't be able to turn it off. So there's a lot of fear. There's a lot of, I'm sure, misunderstanding out there in the public about this idea of the singularity of this. You know this artificial superintelligence?
00:33:54.040 --> 00:34:17.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Why did you kind of bring these 2 topics of psychedelics and singularity together? They don't seem on the surface to necessarily relate to each other because psychedelics are just substances that biological people like us are taking. And then there's this artificial intelligence, which is something developed by computer scientists. They don't necessarily seem to come together on the surface, do they?
00:34:17.830 --> 00:34:37.819 David: That they actually have quite a history of being together. Silicon Valley was actually sort of an outgrowth of the psychedelic culture in San Francisco people like Steve Jobs and Sam Altman and many people who are involved
00:34:37.820 --> 00:35:02.550 David: in the personal computer development. We're also psychedelic explorers. Many of the 1st computer programmers were using psychedelics. So I did a whole maps bulletin devoted to the interface between technology and psychedelics, so that history has been going on for a while.
00:35:02.550 --> 00:35:28.919 David: but you know why I brought them together in my book is because I think that I don't think people should be afraid of artificial intelligence, but we should certainly be concerned about it, and we should certainly take necessary precautions, because, as with any technology, it can be used for good or for ill. And this is the most powerful technology that human beings have ever developed.
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:35.410 David: And and you know, I think psychedelics help to sort of balance the
00:35:35.750 --> 00:36:00.139 David: the rational logical side of artificial intelligence, with a connection to a deeper kind of intelligence, the intelligence of the earth, or the intelligence of the collective human spirit, or the intelligence of the cosmos, or what people call God. You know, I think that that's necessary right now, more than ever.
00:36:00.140 --> 00:36:11.839 David: so that so that we can, you know, implement the proper precautions and into the into the development of of AI before it does, you know, escalate into
00:36:11.860 --> 00:36:15.800 David: into a system that that is beyond beyond human control.
00:36:16.230 --> 00:36:27.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right right, and you interview a number of different people from Duncan Trussell, Rupert Sheldrake, Hamilton, Morris, Graham, Hancock, Grant, Morrison, and others.
00:36:27.460 --> 00:36:41.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I mean? Was everyone pretty much on the same page around artificial intelligence and stuff? Or is there sort of a variety of different perspectives or different outlooks on it?
00:36:42.310 --> 00:37:08.520 David: Well, there was certainly a variety of different perspectives that people had. But one of the criteria that I have for the people that I interview is that I'm looking for people who have an optimistic or hopeful perspective. So pretty much. Everybody I interviewed in the book was hopeful or optimistic about the future revolution of artificial intelligence or technology in general.
00:37:09.140 --> 00:37:09.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good.
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:30.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I know Terence Mckenna. When he was alive. He proposed this idea of the stoned ape theory that the way humans were able to evolve language and other higher brain functions was because, you know, our ancestors ate magic mushrooms, you know, millions of years ago.
00:37:32.180 --> 00:37:37.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: With what you know of people and the researchers of what they're doing with with psychedelics
00:37:38.030 --> 00:37:43.239 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is psychedelics sort of increasing brain function. Is it
00:37:43.420 --> 00:37:47.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: creating a capacity where we can understand more.
00:37:48.320 --> 00:38:15.430 David: Well, I certainly think so. I mean, that's a hard thing to measure or to know for sure, but I certainly think so. I mean. Like I mentioned, the computer revolution began with people who were experimenting with psychedelics and stam. Altman, for example, the person who is the CEO of Openai, has has talked about how much he's
00:38:15.450 --> 00:38:44.220 David: he's learned from his psychedelic experiences. I think psychedelics accelerate intelligence. I think that they accelerate creativity, and these are not only intelligence and creativity, but also compassion and empathy. I think so. I think that many people who are involved in computer programming have been accessing psychedelics for a long time.
00:38:44.220 --> 00:38:52.860 David: So I do think that they have a very, very profound impact, and I think a profoundly positive impact as well.
00:38:53.600 --> 00:38:56.399 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, I've heard stories that
00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:12.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the engineers who created the routers, the hubs which the Internet is kind of built on because they're very complex machines that they actually were using. I think, Lsd. At the time to help them to solve and to think
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:18.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: more creatively, to be able to create these, these
00:39:18.340 --> 00:39:24.589 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: boxes that had never been available before, with which the Internet would not exist today had they not.
00:39:24.950 --> 00:39:49.080 David: Yeah, there are so many, you know. There's so many examples like that of how psychedelics have led to increased scientific discoveries. Kerry Mullis, the Nobel Prize winner for development of the Polymerase chain reaction, which was the, you know, the impetus behind genetic engineering. He attributes his
00:39:49.150 --> 00:40:16.249 David: his insight into how to do it to his. His use of Lsd. Steve Jobs considered Steve Jobs, who, you know, was the was the CEO of Apple computer. He said that doing? Lsd was one of the 5 most important things that he did in his life. And and many people don't know that for years. Apple Computer, you know, when when Steve would.
00:40:16.300 --> 00:40:35.820 David: would would interview potential potential employees to work for apple programmers. One of the, you know, after he, you know, saw that they were qualified as as computer programmers and were stellar in that area. One of the questions he would ask them was, Have you ever had a psychedelic experience.
00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:36.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh!
00:40:36.340 --> 00:40:52.929 David: And he was looking specifically for you know, programmers who had experience with psychedelics. So Apple computer to this day has has many people who were who were psychedelic explorers. So I think that's partly why they've been so innovative and.
00:40:52.930 --> 00:40:53.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:40:53.490 --> 00:41:02.100 David: And been such a powerful force in the development of new technologies that are benefiting humanity.
00:41:02.530 --> 00:41:13.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, so I'm curious. If people like Sam Altman and and other, you know, really central figures in in the technology industry.
00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:30.829 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I've used psychedelics, but there still seems to be a lot of behavior that's very concerning, like, you know, the open AI like dissolve their safety board. I mean. I know there's also politics involved in other things, but
00:41:31.020 --> 00:41:50.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: it still seems like, you know, there's not necessarily, unless there are things going on that not public information. Aware of that, there's still things going on that don't seem overly conscious that don't seem to be moving us in that direction in the technology industry. And I'm just curious
00:41:51.160 --> 00:41:57.839 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like, why do you think if if these people are accessing these things and have a higher consciousness, why is this still a challenge.
00:41:58.380 --> 00:42:22.479 David: Well, you know, I mean, human behavior is very complex. I mean, there's so many factors, and there's so many different things that influence what happens, and so much of it is unpredictable. And you know, and also I mean, psychedelics are not necessarily, you know, a panacea, as Stan Groff said. They're nonspecific brain amplifiers, so they amplify whatever
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:46.939 David: is going on. I mean, we can certainly point to people like Charles Manson or other people who have used psychedelics, I mean, and not in the most positive way. So they amplify, you know, whatever is there in the human psyche. The reason I'm optimistic is because, you know, though I mean people who are in positions of power often got there, because, you know, they had some kind of they had
00:42:47.140 --> 00:43:10.550 David: some of these, maybe undesirable traits that got amplified with psychedelics. But I'm optimistic because I think that humanity as a whole or the greater collective, is generally positive that most people have compassion or want the best for things. So I see that as the human population turns on to psychedelics, I see it amplifying it
00:43:10.550 --> 00:43:17.420 David: primarily in a positive way, despite some of the people who may be in positions of power, that
00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:22.399 David: that you know, that have some of these more negative qualities amplified and.
00:43:22.850 --> 00:43:26.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, I I heard a statistic once that
00:43:27.120 --> 00:43:44.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: from someone in the psychedelics industry that on any given weekend there's something like a hundred 1,000 ceremonies, psychedelic ceremonies happening across the United States. Just the United States. And then, you know, each one of those ceremonies. They're like multiple people.
00:43:44.550 --> 00:44:11.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So it does seem to be being adapted and taken in, taken by more and more people in society. But still the the road to legalization right. The mdma did not pass the FDA panels medical use. There's still challenges, even though Oregon and Colorado have both legalized psilocybin.
00:44:12.590 --> 00:44:21.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Do you feel like it's going to take a while for the legislature and the laws to sort of catch up to sort of the public acceptance of psychedelics.
00:44:22.620 --> 00:44:36.139 David: Let me 1st say something about the fact that you brought up the ceremonies, which I think is important, because so much of you know whether psychedelics have a positive or negative influence depends on set and setting.
00:44:36.140 --> 00:44:57.610 David: So so I think that you know people who use them with the intention of being the sacred, you know. Value in them, I think, is important and ceremonial use of psychedelics with ayahuasca and other psychedelics, I think, is important because it brings those qualities out.
00:44:57.610 --> 00:45:11.719 David: I mean, I'm actually amazed that the progression has happened so quickly, instead of thinking that, you know, because I mean for much of my life, you know, like I said I saw it, you know, demonized and ridiculed.
00:45:11.720 --> 00:45:12.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:45:12.740 --> 00:45:36.139 David: And criminalize. And we're finally seeing. I mean, you know, in Colorado and Oregon, they've actually, you know, legalized or decriminalized, the use of psychedelics. There are many cities here in my hometown of Santa Cruz. They've decriminalized the use of natural psychedelics. So I mean, yeah, of course, there's going to be some resistance to this, I mean, many people
00:45:36.140 --> 00:45:45.150 David: have antiquated views on it. Many people were programmed by the dare in school that made us.
00:45:45.150 --> 00:45:45.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:45:45.590 --> 00:46:12.450 David: Know that these things were more dangerous than they were, so I'm not surprised by the resistance. I'm actually, you know, incredibly hopeful by the incredible momentum that I've seen, you know, in recent years, and I don't think there's any way to stop that, because I think there's something deeper going on, I mean, like I mentioned, I think that this is what the guy in. And you know, matrix or the guy in intelligence is trying to
00:46:12.450 --> 00:46:23.960 David: trying to cause human minds to evolve in this more expanded way. So I'm tremendously, tremendously hopeful about the direction this is moving.
00:46:24.170 --> 00:46:39.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful. Okay, all right, we have to take our last break of the show. The hour goes by so fast when I have such wonderful guests like yourself when we come back. I'd love to know who are some of your favorite people that you've interviewed, and why?
00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:59.959 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right. So give that a thought because you've interviewed lots of people over the years. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity, and we will be right back with our guest, David J. Brown, author of our editor of the Psychedelics, and the coming Singularity. In just a moment.
00:48:40.560 --> 00:48:59.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, David, over the years you've interviewed dozens and dozens of amazing thinkers, leaders, some of which are no longer with us, who has been your favorite person that you've interviewed and published. And why was that interview your favorite.
00:48:59.630 --> 00:49:05.030 David: Oh, you know I my brain is just swimming with you know, with with all the you know, memories of all.
00:49:05.030 --> 00:49:07.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Picking. Who's your favorite child?
00:49:07.420 --> 00:49:37.330 David: Yeah, it's really it's impossible to answer my very favorite. I can mention some of my favorites, and even that is difficult. I mean, it was wonderful to interview Terrence Mckenna. He was the 1st person that we interviewed, and that was an amazing experience. Jerry Garcia, from the grateful dead, was incredible. It was really fun to interview Noam Chomsky and ask him those kind of philosophical questions that nobody else has ever asked him.
00:49:37.752 --> 00:49:41.330 David: John Lilly, we got. An amazing interview
00:49:41.330 --> 00:50:07.969 David: interview out of him, I mean, there's just barely been so many. I really enjoyed my interview with Rupert Sheldrake, because that not only was, you know, did I interview him twice for 2 books, but it led to a really fruitful work relationship, where we worked together for 5 years on different scientific projects. I was thrilled to be able to interview
00:50:07.970 --> 00:50:35.919 David: Duncan Trussell from my latest book. I'm a huge fan of his comedy. I was kind of a little starstruck doing the interview. But that was great fun. There's really just been so many that it's impossible for me to say that one was my favorite. For a long time I was saying that my interview with Matthew Fox is certainly one of my favorites. Matthew Fox is a theologian, and he
00:50:36.010 --> 00:50:43.180 David: kind of unexpectedly got into a lot of really interesting discussion about religion and spirituality.
00:50:43.180 --> 00:50:43.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But.
00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:54.410 David: That you know that I wasn't quite expecting during the interview, and that that really was probably my favorite interview that I did for my book. Voices from the edge.
00:50:54.770 --> 00:50:55.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or to.
00:50:55.500 --> 00:50:59.150 David: But I'm sorry. I just can't think of one.
00:50:59.150 --> 00:51:05.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No, no problem. I totally get it. I totally get it. It's like, if people ask me who's my favorite person that I've interviewed on my show. I'm like, Oh, my God, I've
00:51:06.154 --> 00:51:06.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that's
00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:18.959 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so many! It's always who's my current guest. But it's interesting. You brought up about spirituality because that was going to be my next question for you, which is, you know, you've been a long time meditative, meditating, since you're 14 years old.
00:51:21.590 --> 00:51:33.759 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How has psychedelics sort of maybe interwoven with spirituality for you like, how has it changed? How you view the nature of
00:51:33.970 --> 00:51:38.239 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: spirit, the soul, God, universe, whatever you want to call it.
00:51:39.240 --> 00:52:02.929 David: Yeah. You know, you brought up that. I started meditating when I was 14, but that for me wasn't really a spiritual experience. I was doing that because I was interested just in consciousness and didn't think of it as being related to spirituality. I grew up in an environment where there really wasn't wasn't any religion. I was taught about evolution when I was a child.
00:52:02.930 --> 00:52:11.490 David: so it wasn't really something I gave a lot of thought to until you know, I had my 1st psychedelic experience when I was 16 years old.
00:52:11.520 --> 00:52:31.299 David: and it was during that experience about 3 quarters of the way into it I went out into my backyard and was looking up at the sky, and there was this feeling of dialogue with something that was answering all my philosophical questions as I would think of these questions.
00:52:31.300 --> 00:52:52.989 David: You know I was getting answers, and it was, you know, in this sense of unity or dissolution, of boundaries between myself and the universe was, or between myself and what people call God, or the Universal Mind began when I was 16 years old, and that then led to, and you know I started reading Alan Watts
00:52:52.990 --> 00:53:05.249 David: and other philosophers, Aldous Huxley doors of perception, and I began to understand that what I had had was a mystical or religious experience.
00:53:05.250 --> 00:53:28.480 David: And that's really what you know. That's really how that began. And then, as I had other psychedelic experiences. Sometimes the experience was difficult or challenging, and I would reach back to my experiences with meditation that I had before I used psychedelics and would then meditate while I was having psychedelic experiences.
00:53:28.660 --> 00:53:58.300 David: and also the psychedelic experiences led to my spontaneously led to lucid dreaming. You know, the feeling of being aware and awake while I'm dreaming. And that then led to me, being able to meditate within the lucid dream, or to dialogue with the intelligence behind the dream, which is very similar to the kind of intelligence that people encounter on ayahuasca or on psychedelics where they feel like they're able to dialogue with their higher mind. Or you know, the
00:53:58.300 --> 00:54:13.589 David: the guy in mind, or you know, or the mind behind the cosmos, or you know what people call God. So you know, that's that's really how it began for me. And it's a it's a relationship that's very important to me and continues to this.
00:54:15.530 --> 00:54:27.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, I I've had one or 2 of my own experiences where I had a dream about taking substance, and I was felt like in the dream, like I was altered.
00:54:27.700 --> 00:54:28.100 David: Yeah.
00:54:28.100 --> 00:54:33.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Which is when you're dreaming is like really bizarre, and I woke up, and I could still like feel the after effects of it.
00:54:33.820 --> 00:55:03.590 David: Sure. Yeah, that's actually really common. I've had that experience. Numerous times. I've smoked Dmt in a dream and had the experience or done psychedelics. And it really goes to show you, then, because the brain is capable of generating these experiences, excuse me without the substance itself. So it shows you that the brain has this ability, the drugs, not even really important. Once once you've had the experience and understand, you know how it happens and your brain can then generate it on its own.
00:55:04.240 --> 00:55:07.937 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know they've found
00:55:09.060 --> 00:55:26.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I think it was. Ergo, in some like ancient Greek vases that show that even in Western culture, like not just in in indigenous cultures in South America, but even in Western culture, we've been using substances to alter consciousness for thousands and thousands of years.
00:55:28.030 --> 00:55:33.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Can you picture, like what will psychedelics be like in another 100 years?
00:55:34.710 --> 00:55:40.519 David: Well, I think that's yeah. I certainly. We're going to develop
00:55:40.520 --> 00:56:05.479 David: new psychedelics, better psychedelics, different types of psychedelics. Artificial intelligence has been very helpful in the development of new drugs, and it can help us develop hundreds of new types of psychedelics. I think, with the interface of artificial intelligence. When people have say brain implants, or with transcranial brain stimulation, where we can interface with an artificial intelligence
00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:20.410 David: while we're having a psychedelic experience, or while we're having a lucid dream. I think then it's going to create new possibilities for how the psychedelic experience will unfold and what type of potential will be
00:56:20.410 --> 00:56:37.690 David: will be for them. I think that in the future they're not going to be demonized criminalized, or all these things. I think they're going to be widely accepted in the future. I think that the way they've been accepted into
00:56:37.690 --> 00:56:57.110 David: in indigenous cultures provides a model for how they're going to be accepted into into Western. You know Western culture. But you know, with our you know, with the symbiosis, with technology as well. So so I see this is all sort of going hand in hand, and and I see I see
00:56:57.110 --> 00:57:01.330 David: great potential and and wonderful things in store for us.
00:57:01.590 --> 00:57:13.129 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful wonderful! Unfortunately, we'll have to leave it there, David. It's been a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you so so much. Do you have any books in the works at the moment? Do you have any new stuff coming out for next year?
00:57:13.130 --> 00:57:42.019 David: I do next month. One of my most exciting books is coming out. The Illustrated Field Guide to the Dmt. Entities, which is a sort of a field guide or a guidebook, looking at the different types of entities that people report encountering during their Dmt. Experiences. And it's illustrated by my dear friend and artist, Sarah Finn Huntley, as well as other artists like Alex Gray and Luke Brown.
00:57:42.315 --> 00:57:48.219 David: So it's it's coming out on February 25th of next month, and we're all looking forward to that.
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:53.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful, wonderful. Oh, I definitely have to pick up a copy of that when it comes out.
00:57:53.980 --> 00:58:13.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right. Well, thank you, David, I really appreciate it again. David J. Brown, The Psychedelics, and the Coming singularity. His newest book until February 26, th and get his new book, The Field Guide to D and T entities, David. I hope we can have more conversations like this in the future, and go deeper in.
00:58:13.740 --> 00:58:20.230 David: Absolutely. I look forward to them. Thanks so much, Sam. These were wonderful questions, and look forward to speaking more in the future.
00:58:20.230 --> 00:58:49.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful, wonderful! And of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, who after all these years, still continue to watch and listen and download our show. Of course, if you missed any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on all the major podcasting platforms on talkradio, dot, Nyc on Youtube on Facebook and thank you all for continuing to support the show. Thank you all for tuning in. We will talk to you all next week.
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