Tuesdays 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EDT)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
When organizations undergo change and transformation, such as mergers, reorganization, executive transitions, crisis events, or even rebranding, leaders sometimes overlook how aligning leadership, engaging stakeholders, and communicating clearly can be the difference between superficial change and real impact. Why do traditional communication models fail to engage employees in today’s hybrid and distributed work environments? How can companies craft authentic, compelling messages that better resonate? We'll delve into that on this episode.
WHAT YOU WILL LEARN:
As workplaces evolve, especially in hybrid or distributed environments, leaders are often trapped by outdated assumptions about communication and connection. Katy (Herr) Hew will explore why traditional leadership communication models fail to engage employees in today’s world and how to help companies craft authentic, compelling messages that resonate during transformations. If you’re questioning whether your change initiatives are actually making an impact, this episode will challenge you to think differently about communication and connection as the fuel for transformation.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Katy has spent her career helping organizations - large and small - that are taking bold steps to transform. She has successfully led teams through mergers and acquisitions, IPOs and spin-offs, reorganizations, executive transitions, crisis events, rebranding, and much more. She launched Audacia Strategies in 2015 to help organizations get more "bang for your buck" out of transformation - whether it is planned or unplanned. Having spent years as a client, she brings a practical, roll-up-her-sleeves approach to her engagements. She believes that relationships matter and credibility counts.
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IF YOU ENJOYED THIS EPISODE, CAN I ASK A FAVOR?
We do not receive any funding or sponsorship for this podcast. If you learned something and feel others could also benefit, please leave a positive review. Every review helps amplify our work and visibility. This is especially helpful for small women-owned boot-strapped businesses. Simply go to the bottom of the Apple Podcast page to enter a review. Thank you!
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LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
Guest LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathrynherr
Guest Website: www.audaciastrategies.com
Our website: www.gotowerscope.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathrynherr/ ; www.audaciastrategies.com
#OrganizationalTransformation #ChangeCommunication #TheHardSkills
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
00:00:52.570 --> 00:01:06.729 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the most challenging soft skills required to navigate today's leadership complexities and tomorrow's unknowns. I'm your host, Dr. Mira Bronku.
00:01:06.860 --> 00:01:20.410 Mira Brancu: my new millennials workbook for navigating workplace politics, just recently published as a Number one, new release in business and organizational learning on Amazon. Get your copy today. I have
00:01:20.720 --> 00:01:28.019 Mira Brancu: it with me. It's so exciting. If you're watching this live or the recording, it's super super exciting.
00:01:28.670 --> 00:01:34.130 Mira Brancu: So to that end, season 6 through 9 are all dedicated to this topic
00:01:34.430 --> 00:01:38.799 Mira Brancu: and season 6 in particular, is all about positive politics.
00:01:38.900 --> 00:01:40.320 Mira Brancu: So today.
00:01:40.450 --> 00:01:55.160 Mira Brancu: Katie here is giving us some tips on how to craft authentic compelling messages during transformational changes. And I really think that is one way that you can engage in positive politics. Right? It's all about the influence factor. So
00:01:55.360 --> 00:02:18.159 Mira Brancu: right now, organizations are faced with the challenge of offering employees opportunities to work fully, remotely, or in a hybrid environment which helps with employee retention and satisfaction, but increases complexity. And they're also facing more frequent changes, transformations like mergers, reorgs, executive transitions, crisis events, or even rebranding. And with all of that change happening.
00:02:18.580 --> 00:02:30.809 Mira Brancu: it can really cause disengagement. You know, change, exhaustion, communication, confusion, and overload. And so Katie's here to help us with that.
00:02:30.950 --> 00:02:35.000 Mira Brancu: So I'm going to introduce her to all of you. Katie here
00:02:35.160 --> 00:02:39.480 Mira Brancu: has spent her career helping organizations take bold steps to transform.
00:02:39.580 --> 00:03:07.829 Mira Brancu: She has successfully led teams through mergers and acquisitions, ipos and spinoffs, reorganizations, executive transitions, crisis events, rebranding, and much more. Remember those things I just mentioned. She has experience with those things, and before launching audacia strategies, Katie served as vice president of investor Relations at Excellus Incorporated, a leading global defense and aerospace company super interesting
00:03:07.930 --> 00:03:24.160 Mira Brancu: prior to excellus. She held leadership roles in communications, investor relations and business development with technology, aerospace and defense firms. So I love how she's kind of married all of these experiences into what she's doing right now. Welcome, Katie.
00:03:26.940 --> 00:03:30.569 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Thank you so much for having me today, Mira. It's great to be here.
00:03:30.570 --> 00:03:55.500 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. I'm really excited to get into this, because I really do think that the rapid pace at which change is happening makes it so difficult for leaders to find a way to communicate clearly, consistently, genuinely, and for their employees to receive it in a way that is well received.
00:03:55.720 --> 00:04:05.990 Mira Brancu: understood on board, aligned with all of the sort of ways that we're our attention is being
00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:26.599 Mira Brancu: stretch so thin, and and we have so little capacity to just focus in one direction, right? So before we get into like, how do you do that? I'm 1st just wondering, like, how did you get into this space through your own career growth, trajectory.
00:04:28.150 --> 00:04:42.870 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): You know, it's so interesting that you brought up politics to begin with, because as a as a kid, I was really involved in local politics, and I was always fascinated by organizational change, but also political campaigns.
00:04:42.870 --> 00:04:43.340 Mira Brancu: Interesting.
00:04:43.340 --> 00:05:12.439 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And I I won't bring up like the timing of this. I won't out myself too much there, but suffice it to say, like mobilizing and inspiring large groups was something that I thought was really interesting, and I think a good example of that, and something that resonated with me was James Carville's work on the Clinton campaign, where he had 3 key messages up in their war room. Right? Change versus more of the same. It's the economy stupid. Don't forget about healthcare
00:05:12.670 --> 00:05:23.269 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? And that became their mantra, especially the economy that became the mantra of the campaign and an ultimately successful campaign. It doesn't have to be complicated. It has to be
00:05:23.380 --> 00:05:47.879 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): clear and resonant with those who you're trying to to speak with, and so, you know, fast forward as I come out of business school, and I go and go into the working world. The consistency across my experience was companies that were reorganizing and merging and buying other things and rebranding, and in the years they weren't rebranding and renaming, they were reorganizing again.
00:05:48.658 --> 00:05:58.529 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): So that level of change I experienced firsthand. I was like the completely confused employee. I was the manager who was exhausted
00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:07.600 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): without enough preparation trying to communicate with my team. I would. I've been an executive trying to balance Wall Street and employee concerns like
00:06:07.970 --> 00:06:17.649 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): all of this really fed into my experience. When I decided to start audacea strategies, that there was a better way to communicate change.
00:06:17.790 --> 00:06:28.160 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And and we know this. I mean, we, we know that you know, 70% of change initiatives fail. Right? I mean, everybody talks about that. It's a fairly well cited statistic. And yet
00:06:28.690 --> 00:06:33.480 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): we continue to use the same traditional communications mechanisms.
00:06:34.132 --> 00:06:46.360 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Without really considering the fact that the way we interact as humans. The way we interact as a society, as organizations has really shifted over the years.
00:06:48.280 --> 00:06:49.190 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And
00:06:49.500 --> 00:06:57.700 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): leaders really need to get comfortable in terms of how do we communicate with our employees in a way that is not the top down hierarchical
00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:04.289 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): style that many of us grew up in, but is actually much more personal and authentic.
00:07:04.811 --> 00:07:18.980 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): In terms of how they're they're interacting with change themselves right in a way that they can. They can say, you know, here's how I'm experiencing this change. And here's how I came through it. And I want to help you understand where we're going as well.
00:07:20.330 --> 00:07:24.911 Mira Brancu: That's leading me to a million questions, Katie.
00:07:25.420 --> 00:07:26.930 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): So that's why we're here.
00:07:26.930 --> 00:07:28.987 Mira Brancu: Yeah, let me start with this.
00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:33.296 Mira Brancu: You mentioned that that.
00:07:34.510 --> 00:07:42.559 Mira Brancu: the way that communication mechanisms are used and have been used for a really long time does do not match
00:07:42.890 --> 00:07:47.790 Mira Brancu: kind of the the current way that we've shifted, how we interact.
00:07:49.450 --> 00:08:00.320 Mira Brancu: tell us more about that. Like what what has changed in terms of how we interact. And how does that not match like how we actually have been communicating, at least up until this point.
00:08:02.260 --> 00:08:12.529 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): So I I think there's there's a few things in that right 1st is we've we've got this kind of engagement crisis or engagement gap, if you will. So.
00:08:12.650 --> 00:08:23.219 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): even as you know, as recently as probably middle of 2024, I believe the most recent Gallup Poll said, about 32% of employees were highly engaged
00:08:23.410 --> 00:08:30.420 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? Which is not a great statistic, that it that is, not a number. If you're running a business, that is not the number you want to be seeing.
00:08:30.952 --> 00:08:44.569 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Employees are feeling not only disconnected from their company's mission, their purpose, but they're they're confused about their role. Right? So if you are a leader and you're attempting to communicate major change.
00:08:45.300 --> 00:08:52.909 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): whether you're using a very traditional playbook or the most untraditional playbook. 1st of all, fundamentally, you've got to think about who your audience is.
00:08:53.080 --> 00:09:00.470 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and if they are disconnected from your organization and and why that organization exists, and they're uncertain about their role.
00:09:00.730 --> 00:09:07.339 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): If you're trying to talk to them about change, that's like building a house on shifting sand right? It's just not. It doesn't work
00:09:07.830 --> 00:09:30.270 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): the other pieces. You've got kind of that leadership readiness gap. And I I referenced that a little bit that leaders aren't necessarily comfortable talking about change, and so they tend to rely on highly scripted talking points. And you know, top down corporate level messages, and we'll send that out to everybody. And now they know
00:09:31.750 --> 00:09:39.889 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And that's because, you know, like 70% of managers have never received formal training in leading hybrid teams or in in change itself.
00:09:41.710 --> 00:09:59.410 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and what that means is that we're asking leaders to guide through communicate guide communications during a time where they've received no training whatsoever. And also because they they just simply don't understand how to impart the experience to their teams.
00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:07.810 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): There's a concept that we tend to talk about at audacia quite a bit that we call the curse of knowledge.
00:10:08.570 --> 00:10:26.250 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And so, leaders. Right? We'll sit. We'll sit in meetings, a lot of meetings, whether it's like this or in person in a great big board room, and they will talk about the strategy of the company right? And why things need to change, and they'll have meetings for months, sometimes years on a particular change topic.
00:10:26.370 --> 00:10:30.239 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and they finally get to the moment where they can share this
00:10:30.490 --> 00:10:37.970 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): big change. Reorganization, acquisition, whatever it is, with the rest of the world, and
00:10:38.170 --> 00:10:40.800 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): they can't bring their team along with them.
00:10:40.940 --> 00:10:52.729 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): It is new information to everybody else, but they have been talking about it for so long that it seems absolutely natural. And how could you possibly not know what I'm talking about, Mira? Right? This is.
00:10:52.730 --> 00:10:53.180 Mira Brancu: Absolutely.
00:10:53.180 --> 00:11:03.790 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): We've been talking about this for a year, right? And in the meantime you're sitting on the other end of that conversation going. I learned about this in an email at 9 am. Right? Like, what are you talking about?
00:11:03.790 --> 00:11:20.490 Mira Brancu: Right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That reminds me of the framework that we use in the disc work of leaders. It's an assessment. The disc is an assessment very well known. But the work of leaders I really like, because the framework that they have in there
00:11:20.970 --> 00:11:27.860 Mira Brancu: is that when you're talking about change. And when you're implementing change, you go from vision to alignment to execution.
00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:40.949 Mira Brancu: And what we find often is that leaders who go too fast, and many do from vision to execution with insufficient alignment, which is the buy-in. The middle part.
00:11:42.467 --> 00:11:45.810 Mira Brancu: Often find that the execution starts falling apart.
00:11:46.140 --> 00:12:08.209 Mira Brancu: and sometimes it's because people are not on board, and they're starting to question and criticize and sabotage and undermine, and all of the things to keep the change from happening, because it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to them, or they're anxious about it, or confused, or all of the things that you just mentioned right? And so
00:12:08.740 --> 00:12:17.157 Mira Brancu: what you're talking about is how critical it is to slow down, no matter how much work that you put into the
00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:19.670 Mira Brancu: work of visioning.
00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:27.260 Mira Brancu: To, then slow down and make sure that the communication and the buy-in part of this the alignment is
00:12:27.430 --> 00:12:33.330 Mira Brancu: that you spend enough time that people have time to chew on it and understand it, and catch up to where you are.
00:12:33.570 --> 00:12:36.719 Mira Brancu: instead of trying to drag them along and speed them up.
00:12:37.090 --> 00:12:41.470 Mira Brancu: But then, you know, they're they're never really truly on board, right.
00:12:43.590 --> 00:12:54.419 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): A 100%. I mean, there are so many examples of these incredibly beautifully crafted strategies that get announced and they make a big pop, and then they just fizzle.
00:12:54.460 --> 00:13:14.949 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): because whether you know whether you want to call it middle management or team leads, they weren't prepared to help guide their teams. And there wasn't discussion of how is this going to really impact? What do I need my team to really understand in order to affect this? And you kind of get to that. That double betrayal
00:13:15.373 --> 00:13:22.820 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): aspect, right managers feel betrayed by the leadership that they weren't prepared for this, and they're being put in front of their teams
00:13:22.950 --> 00:13:24.990 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): without appropriate
00:13:25.270 --> 00:13:39.129 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): preparation, right? As as a, as a, as a people, leader of any type, whether that's formal or informal. The one thing you want to be able to do is stand in front of them and feel like you can help guide them through a period of change like this
00:13:39.743 --> 00:13:57.400 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and so when that can't happen right? You've you've broken that trust, and then your your employees, your team, feels betrayed by their managers, who they are closest to on a daily basis. Right? So now you've not only got disengagement now you've got broken trust
00:13:57.500 --> 00:14:06.810 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? And so it it's no wonder that that key strategies. Key strategic change doesn't doesn't take hold in the way that it was intended to.
00:14:07.760 --> 00:14:15.990 Mira Brancu: Yeah, that. I've never heard it called that way double betrayal. But that is a beautiful way to encapsulate the
00:14:16.230 --> 00:14:18.996 Mira Brancu: sort of broken trust and
00:14:20.220 --> 00:14:39.086 Mira Brancu: placing your managers in untenable situations where they're frustrated with not understanding the why behind why we're doing this, and still feeling like they have to somehow convince, or, you know, get their folks along their employees when they're not completely on board themselves, and you can imagine
00:14:39.950 --> 00:14:48.210 Mira Brancu: why so many times the vision from the top of the organization.
00:14:48.828 --> 00:14:50.779 Mira Brancu: That never gets to
00:14:50.960 --> 00:15:04.069 Mira Brancu: employees, and the people most likely to have to execute on that vision. And it's like a game of telephone right? If if if it's that good, right? So we're reaching an ad break
00:15:04.690 --> 00:15:06.409 Mira Brancu: when we come back.
00:15:06.530 --> 00:15:27.319 Mira Brancu: I'd love to move to my other sort of line of of inquiry around like, then how do you? How do they start making it more personal, especially like when you have such a when you have a very large organization, then how right? So you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branku and our guest Katie, here.
00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:40.929 Mira Brancu: and we air on Tuesdays at 5 pm. Eastern. So that means, if you're listening right now, on a Tuesday at 5 Pm. You can find us live streaming at Linkedin and Youtube. And you can ask us questions. Live and we'll answer them. Live.
00:15:41.110 --> 00:15:45.540 Mira Brancu: We are@talkradio.nyc. And we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:17:29.260 --> 00:17:37.881 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and Katie Hu of audacia strategies. So
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:39.820 Mira Brancu: Haiti.
00:17:40.050 --> 00:18:01.444 Mira Brancu: we've been talking about like the sort of traditional, unhelpful models of communicating where you've got, you know. Let's say executive team. They're talking about a vision, and then they start communicating it out, and they're communicating it in ways that it feels
00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.420 Mira Brancu: you know, disconnected from the employee.
00:18:06.190 --> 00:18:15.690 Mira Brancu: It doesn't feel like it's tracking where the employee is in their level of understanding or newness to the new vision.
00:18:15.970 --> 00:18:25.840 Mira Brancu: and that is creating or not meeting people where they are, which is more disengaged, needing more connection
00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:34.190 Mira Brancu: right to the vision, and not appreciating how this can cause even a a betrayal of trust.
00:18:34.736 --> 00:18:40.963 Mira Brancu: With your managers who have to sort of enact on the communication and the vision ultimately, which
00:18:41.980 --> 00:18:48.460 Mira Brancu: you know, you're really painting a picture of how critical this communication is. So if we were to disrupt
00:18:49.030 --> 00:18:51.879 Mira Brancu: sort of like what it looks like right now.
00:18:52.600 --> 00:18:58.219 Mira Brancu: And recognizing that we're working with a
00:18:59.070 --> 00:19:06.185 Mira Brancu: distributed work environment, some people are remote. They're not paying attention all the time, you know.
00:19:06.790 --> 00:19:09.439 Mira Brancu: and you want to sort of like.
00:19:09.560 --> 00:19:13.010 Mira Brancu: find a way to re-engage your your workforce.
00:19:13.130 --> 00:19:15.488 Mira Brancu: How? Where do you start.
00:19:17.780 --> 00:19:21.520 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Oh, my gosh! Everywhere! Sorry
00:19:21.940 --> 00:19:31.340 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): everywhere, but but start fundamentally by flipping the traditional script rather than saying, What is it that I need to say.
00:19:31.800 --> 00:19:37.839 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): think about it differently. Think about what does my audience need to hear and understand?
00:19:38.663 --> 00:19:44.040 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): What we ask our clients to do? We always say, let's start with
00:19:44.350 --> 00:19:49.250 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): what we call feel no do right? Very simplistic. But
00:19:50.530 --> 00:19:53.480 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): communication takes a while to sink in
00:19:54.228 --> 00:19:59.709 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): for everyone, right? So focusing on the feel initially
00:20:00.140 --> 00:20:10.924 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): will help, because it means when the employee walks away, and they're like, Oh, my gosh! My company has been sold right or Oh, my gosh, my
00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:16.549 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): My school is merging with another school like this is massive earth shattering change.
00:20:17.140 --> 00:20:19.770 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): They will only remember that top level
00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:23.839 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): message, the rest of it. Right emotions kick in
00:20:24.690 --> 00:20:38.420 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): how they feel walking out of there? Do they feel cared for? Do they feel understood? Do they feel like there is a plan in place? Do they feel cared for? Do they feel like they? There is a place they can go to ask questions.
00:20:39.050 --> 00:20:43.999 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Really important people will not remember what you say. They will remember how you make them feel
00:20:44.110 --> 00:20:48.299 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): resonates in almost every aspect of life.
00:20:48.980 --> 00:20:54.860 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And once you get through that feeling aspect, then what do I need them to know about this change
00:20:55.280 --> 00:20:59.769 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? And then what am I asking them to do with that information.
00:20:59.970 --> 00:21:22.039 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And and we work through communications effectiveness this way for leaders. And it shifts the entire dynamic right? I mean. I I wish I could steal this, but I I did have a client say it was like taking off the executive megaphone and putting on the employee headphones, and I was like, Oh, I love that
00:21:22.420 --> 00:21:23.230 Mira Brancu: Great! Yes.
00:21:23.230 --> 00:21:29.360 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): So. But it. But it's true. Right like, how is this being received? And it also has the benefit of taking
00:21:30.460 --> 00:21:38.729 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): for those who are concerned about public speaking. It shifts the focus right? It's not about them anymore. It's really about what they're giving
00:21:39.249 --> 00:21:46.040 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): to their their audience, whether that's customers, employees, students. However, you want to think about that.
00:21:47.150 --> 00:22:04.919 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): When you shift that focus, then you start to think differently about your channels of communication right? There are things that will always happen. There will always be emails. There will be text messages, but the more we can recreate and have authentic conversations, whether those are one to 1, 1 to many
00:22:05.905 --> 00:22:14.740 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): hybrid, but not necessarily scripted right, giving space to actually have the conversation that flow back and forth
00:22:15.320 --> 00:22:22.960 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): changes the dynamic, and this can make some of our clients really uncomfortable.
00:22:23.510 --> 00:22:29.669 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): But having the tough conversations, the tough, unscripted conversations, those ask me anythings.
00:22:30.248 --> 00:22:41.119 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Where you get a really angry you know, client or employee who says Wtf, over, what were you thinking? Did you think about A, B and C,
00:22:41.300 --> 00:22:44.520 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and being able to walk through and say, You know.
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:53.889 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): it sounds like you're, you know, you're really having a hard time with this change. Let me walk through some of the things we've been thinking about, and I'd like to hear more about what you're experiencing
00:22:55.770 --> 00:23:03.719 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): it, almost having that conversation and having others see how that can be handled, that there's space to have those conversations
00:23:04.300 --> 00:23:07.350 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): build so much trust within the organization?
00:23:07.908 --> 00:23:18.589 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): That you can have these conversations that there are no repercussions right? And that you can ask the tough questions and move forward. There's a voice in there. It's not happening to you. It's happening with you.
00:23:18.590 --> 00:23:26.029 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah. I would love to pull out a couple of things here that you you indicated just to highlight them a little bit more
00:23:26.620 --> 00:23:28.220 Mira Brancu: number one.
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:36.670 Mira Brancu: That communication nowadays takes more time than before.
00:23:37.341 --> 00:23:45.530 Mira Brancu: Because of the fact of the increasing complexity and demands on our attention right. It used to be that.
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.460 Mira Brancu: even like in the marketing world, you know, ads, they know they they know, like the advertising industry knows this like it used to take
00:23:52.610 --> 00:24:12.249 Mira Brancu: about 7 touch points, right? And you know those old ads where they like kept repeating the same medicine over and over, and its name so that you can remember it right, like the touch points are important. And now I think they say something between 11 and 15 touch points. Now that sounds really exhausting.
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:17.059 Mira Brancu: but it doesn't like you said it doesn't have to be exactly the same thing. It doesn't have to be scripted.
00:24:17.468 --> 00:24:34.771 Mira Brancu: But you mentioned like communication channels like in in what different ways can I engage with people? Because some people are more, you know, going to be focused on the visual? Some people are going to be focused on like what you sent by email, or you know what you said at the Town Hall, or you know whatever. And
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:42.942 Mira Brancu: I I don't think I made this up. Unfortunately, I wish I could claim it, but I think I heard it through. One of the
00:24:43.450 --> 00:24:52.419 Mira Brancu: pro side change management trainings that I went to. But I say this often, if you're not bored, they're not on board.
00:24:52.670 --> 00:24:53.170 Mira Brancu: If you
00:24:53.170 --> 00:24:59.288 Mira Brancu: they're not bored saying, talking about the change that is happening. They're probably not on board. They haven't heard it enough.
00:25:00.560 --> 00:25:03.040 Mira Brancu: So just think about that like
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:07.159 Mira Brancu: and again, it doesn't have to be scripted. But
00:25:07.988 --> 00:25:24.021 Mira Brancu: some leaders have this sort of mentality. Well, I I said it, and I said it clearly, so don't they understand? No, that's not necessarily the case. It's just because you said it clearly, or just because it's obvious to you, does not mean it was picked up by anybody else? Right?
00:25:24.700 --> 00:25:27.066 Mira Brancu: so so that's number one.
00:25:28.070 --> 00:25:44.640 Mira Brancu: You mentioned like, what do other people need to hear? Right? What do employees need to hear? And you sort of described. How sometimes, when you send a message, it can sound really scary and big and overwhelming. And so
00:25:44.750 --> 00:25:48.379 Mira Brancu: the one of those messages needs to be what's not changing.
00:25:48.830 --> 00:26:00.379 Mira Brancu: Here's here's what's changing. That might sound big. But here's all of the things that are not changing right? And so like that's helpful to an employee to know
00:26:00.490 --> 00:26:09.619 Mira Brancu: that not everything is falling apart, or changing, or shifting, or moving, or whatever it but so it just right sizes it right.
00:26:11.030 --> 00:26:19.169 Mira Brancu: And you also mentioned this sort of sitting with discomfort when people are not happy.
00:26:19.390 --> 00:26:21.700 Mira Brancu: And I think that's really really
00:26:22.080 --> 00:26:45.709 Mira Brancu: critical as an emotional intelligence and emotion, regulation, skill that, like leaders don't get that training, you know, when they go through their leadership training, or if they ever get leadership training, and as part of what they do right. Some people are. They move right from technical expert to leadership roles, and never have this opportunity. But the exchange of ideas
00:26:46.738 --> 00:26:50.809 Mira Brancu: around like listening to people when they're concerned
00:26:51.491 --> 00:26:57.710 Mira Brancu: and sitting with that, and not necessarily being defensive, or taking it personally.
00:26:57.850 --> 00:27:03.100 Mira Brancu: or wanting to shut down or dismiss it or invalidate it, but actually just
00:27:03.360 --> 00:27:08.020 Mira Brancu: taking it in helps people work through
00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:17.510 Mira Brancu: the the worries that they have, and know that you are there to help them kind of work through that, and I'd love to hear more about that piece like, what are your thoughts on that.
00:27:20.050 --> 00:27:24.450 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): I think you're really tapping into one of those those essential
00:27:24.560 --> 00:27:30.839 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): components, right of of leadership, not just through change, but but leadership in general right like that.
00:27:31.150 --> 00:27:39.639 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): that human connection, that humility to be able to to relate to somebody else and kind of take a step back
00:27:40.040 --> 00:27:45.249 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and just say, you know I I want to hear from you. I want to hear your opinion.
00:27:45.909 --> 00:27:51.300 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And also to to simply say, You know I don't have all the answers right?
00:27:51.850 --> 00:28:02.470 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): What we work through we live in. I did in a dynamic environment, right changes, dynamic strategies, markets, right? All of that changing on a day to day basis
00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:04.810 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): to be able to say
00:28:05.100 --> 00:28:11.050 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): great point. I don't have an answer for that, or Hey, we're still working through that right like.
00:28:11.540 --> 00:28:17.550 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Let me, let me get back to you, but also to be meeting that commitment
00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:24.660 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? So if you're if you're going to work to build the trust, then you have to follow through on the commitment you make
00:28:24.940 --> 00:28:29.070 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): to that to that that intrinsic bond.
00:28:30.066 --> 00:28:50.659 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): You know one of the things that we find is there's a natural tendency to rely, especially in times of transition, on making the case for change. Right? Like very factual, very you know, laid out numbers, right? Like statistics, very important, and that that's an important part of it.
00:28:51.310 --> 00:28:54.709 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): But as humans, we tend to learn through storytelling
00:28:55.260 --> 00:29:04.459 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? And so when we're able to relate to each other a bit more as humans, and to talk through the meaning of the change.
00:29:04.610 --> 00:29:09.800 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and to think about what what that meaning might be for the person on the other side of the table.
00:29:10.273 --> 00:29:13.409 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And there there are different sources, different people, you know.
00:29:13.520 --> 00:29:22.359 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): I'm worried about my job and feeding my family. I'm worried about the impact on society. I'm worried about my team. I'm worried about my company
00:29:22.800 --> 00:29:38.329 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): being able to to layer within that. You know, what does this mean for each of those different levels? And what does it mean for you? As a leader, you know. Hey? I was shocked by this as well. You know I I really had to go home and think about it.
00:29:38.490 --> 00:29:48.380 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Come back in the next day. I had a lot of questions, you know. Here are some of the questions I had right to really be able to to share like this is not just something that
00:29:48.980 --> 00:29:50.290 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): happens overnight.
00:29:50.710 --> 00:29:54.890 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you're bringing up so many
00:29:55.250 --> 00:30:19.960 Mira Brancu: ways about how to think about showing up with humility, with authenticity, create psychological safety, like all those buzzwords you're you're putting a name or a description to it, and we're reaching an ad break. But when we come back I would love to hear. You know, some examples of like, what does it look like? Start to finish, to go from feel no do through an organization.
00:30:20.100 --> 00:30:31.550 Mira Brancu: So you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and our guest, Katie Hu. We air on Tuesdays at 5 pm. And we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:32:03.190 --> 00:32:11.160 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Katie Hu of audacia strategies.
00:32:12.156 --> 00:32:24.443 Mira Brancu: Katie, we have been talking about kind of the the factors that lead leaders to
00:32:25.770 --> 00:32:30.779 Mira Brancu: not meet the communication needs of their employees when they're going through massive transitions.
00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:40.009 Mira Brancu: And just, you know, by virtue of kind of using old school traditional models, and what kind of needs to change, or what what needs to be disrupted in those.
00:32:40.520 --> 00:32:48.069 Mira Brancu: And so I'm curious to hear some examples or applications of this like.
00:32:48.490 --> 00:32:53.210 Mira Brancu: when have you seen it work well? And what did it look like
00:32:55.410 --> 00:33:00.799 Mira Brancu: and especially if you could walk us through like any like client examples, is anonymous. Of course.
00:33:03.130 --> 00:33:09.619 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Definitely anonymous, but but absolutely so. And and they're they're
00:33:10.030 --> 00:33:20.340 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): let's take this in 2 different ways, like, there's the the planned change. So maybe we start there right? Because when you get into a crisis situation, things move a little bit differently.
00:33:20.340 --> 00:33:21.770 Mira Brancu: True, true.
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:26.650 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): So plan situations where we have some of the luxury of time.
00:33:27.070 --> 00:33:36.110 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): One of the things that we advocate, for if there is enough time is for our clients to ask the questions even before they start communicating.
00:33:36.340 --> 00:33:53.829 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Do some voice of the customer voice of the employee have some non attribution. Conversations really get a pulse of the organization? Where are folks struggling? What do they view as important? What are they? Where are they finding, you know? Kind of the the trap doors in the organization.
00:33:54.040 --> 00:34:07.589 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and that can really help get your leadership team kind of out of their own bathwater or their echo chamber. Or however, you want to to frame that, because again, that curse of knowledge is strong.
00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:14.110 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? And we've been talking about our strategy for so so long. Everybody's got to know it. Nobody knows it.
00:34:14.380 --> 00:34:15.700 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): nobody knows it.
00:34:16.162 --> 00:34:29.799 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): So being able to bring some of that information in, and then you can really build around. Right? So with information, you can say, Okay, you know, we've got an employee population that might be disconnected. We got an employee and population that doesn't think we have a strategy whatsoever.
00:34:30.361 --> 00:34:36.770 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And you know, maybe they're also feeling like there are some haves and have nots because we're working in a hybrid environment.
00:34:37.219 --> 00:34:44.499 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Great. Let's let's work through that. Okay, we're gonna announce we had a client that in that that is, in that very situation.
00:34:45.929 --> 00:34:55.969 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): they were 2, you know, large companies had come together, but never really integrated. And now they were going to Rebrand and continue to grow.
00:34:56.967 --> 00:34:59.121 Mira Brancu: Through another acquisition.
00:35:00.630 --> 00:35:01.747 Mira Brancu: That's a lot.
00:35:02.120 --> 00:35:05.977 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): It. It? It was. It is a lot
00:35:07.210 --> 00:35:09.060 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And so we really started with.
00:35:09.330 --> 00:35:22.540 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Okay, right? We're coming together. That means that these 2 cultures are going to come together, there will be things that will change. There will be things that we're not going to do anymore. Right? One of the most important things during this time is, what are we not gonna do?
00:35:23.050 --> 00:35:25.250 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Right? We've made choices
00:35:25.910 --> 00:35:39.630 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): as we come together. How do we want people to feel as we talk through that right. They we want them to feel seen, understood, but also excited about what the future could be right. So really painting a picture of what the future is, and why that's important
00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:55.049 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? What does that mean? Does it mean new job opportunities? Does it mean new opportunities to serve our clients even better than we do today, because we have decided not to do something, we can put resources towards something else that is really important to our customers.
00:35:55.560 --> 00:35:57.400 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): So we start there.
00:35:57.890 --> 00:36:01.700 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): We move into the No. What do you need to know? You'll you need to know that
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:05.700 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): in order to execute on this. We're setting up a new organization. We're gonna
00:36:05.860 --> 00:36:10.749 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): combine these 2 organizations. We're gonna stop spending money in department. A
00:36:11.198 --> 00:36:15.460 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): what do I need you to do about that. I need you to out.
00:36:15.610 --> 00:36:21.859 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Stay involved. I need you to continue to deliver for our customers right?
00:36:22.404 --> 00:36:26.319 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Reconnecting them back to the mission of the organization.
00:36:26.959 --> 00:36:36.200 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): You know, in this example that I'm thinking about, it's a government services organization, and they serve the Federal government. So really, staying connected to
00:36:36.340 --> 00:36:42.639 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): our mission, which is to meet the Government Mission right? How are we serving others? How are we serving society through them?
00:36:43.570 --> 00:36:50.850 Mira Brancu: I just have to say it's dawning on me that like how rarely I hear the do part like
00:36:50.970 --> 00:36:53.999 Mira Brancu: I hear so often what the vision is
00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:57.430 Mira Brancu: maybe even the feel right.
00:36:57.610 --> 00:37:00.600 Mira Brancu: feel and know. But the do part.
00:37:01.070 --> 00:37:10.980 Mira Brancu: What I need you to do is, I think, that can be really inspiring, and and remind you of what your role is, and how valuable you are to this.
00:37:11.300 --> 00:37:13.566 Mira Brancu: you know, next step and
00:37:14.200 --> 00:37:17.510 Mira Brancu: that alone can engage people, but like you never
00:37:17.680 --> 00:37:20.110 Mira Brancu: hear that very often. I feel like.
00:37:20.930 --> 00:37:36.279 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): You know that that's a really great point. And and you're making me kind of go think full circle back to the the top of this conversation about politics. Right? The one certainty in politics is, there's always an ask. You know what your call to action is right. It's a vote.
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:37.030 Mira Brancu: Right, right.
00:37:37.030 --> 00:37:40.110 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): I'd say, write a letter to your senator, or whatever that is.
00:37:42.390 --> 00:37:52.489 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): to your point. We're not always as articulate about it when we're talking about some type of organizational change. But just like in, you know.
00:37:52.780 --> 00:37:55.509 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): civics or society there.
00:37:55.700 --> 00:38:03.160 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): it's participatory right? It's incumbent upon all of us to carry it forward, and there's always an action. Whether that action is, you know.
00:38:03.610 --> 00:38:18.699 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Talk to your your fellow employees, talk to your customers right? Remain engaged. Stay tuned for what's coming next? Ask questions. Right? Send us feedback about about how how this is landing with your customers.
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:23.520 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): All of those are very valid asks, and they're necessary.
00:38:23.630 --> 00:38:26.329 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And I think sometimes we're we're afraid.
00:38:26.330 --> 00:38:31.270 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I'm I'm thinking even about like the times when I felt disengaged
00:38:32.060 --> 00:38:34.330 Mira Brancu: during these kinds of time, you know, like
00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:41.130 Mira Brancu: I would get a message from my leaders. Here's what's happening. And I'd be like, Yeah.
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:52.419 Mira Brancu: great. Call me when you need me, you know. And I went back to doing my work, you know, because I didn't hear anything about what, where my role was.
00:38:53.494 --> 00:38:56.840 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And getting to that. What does this mean for me?
00:38:57.260 --> 00:39:01.369 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Right is so important because it's the lens that most of us
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:06.589 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): view change through. We view our entire lives that way. What does this mean to me?
00:39:07.167 --> 00:39:20.010 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And then what does it mean to other parts of organization, society, whatever being able to articulate that, you know you you made a great point. What? What doesn't it mean? Right? What stays the same?
00:39:20.270 --> 00:39:27.920 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And giving that solid foundation for, hey? I can. I can rely here, you know, it's only this part that's changing.
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:31.460 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Yeah, I think, is incredibly important as well.
00:39:31.460 --> 00:39:39.790 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Now tell me, so that's that's under, like the plan you also mentioned in a crisis, it might look different. What does it look like? There.
00:39:40.220 --> 00:40:00.610 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): So in a crisis, right? We don't have generally have the luxury of time for planning, and we may not have the luxury to have insights into our organization. We're just coming in hot. It's a, you know, an executive transition, unexpected executive transition. Whether that's a university president or CEO.
00:40:01.156 --> 00:40:06.860 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And maybe that's you know, we find out on a Friday we're announcing on a Monday.
00:40:08.030 --> 00:40:14.569 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Right? What are we gonna do? How are we gonna help folks through this right there. There is no transition period to the next executive
00:40:14.700 --> 00:40:23.340 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): making sure that we're getting to the the feedback component of it right? And being articulate in the
00:40:23.510 --> 00:40:25.379 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): we. Here's what we know.
00:40:26.410 --> 00:40:28.650 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Here's the timeline, for when I'll know more.
00:40:29.490 --> 00:40:34.990 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and I'm open to hearing more more questions, I may not have all the answers right now, right?
00:40:35.270 --> 00:40:39.170 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Leaning into a bit of that. Here's what I need you to know
00:40:39.340 --> 00:40:43.259 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): from a feeling perspective, right? I can't make everybody feel
00:40:43.450 --> 00:40:45.669 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): comfortable at this point in time.
00:40:46.272 --> 00:40:59.950 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): But I can hopefully make you feel like there's a process in place right? And there we're moving through that in a thoughtful manner. It's not chaos, even though this may be truly unanticipated.
00:41:00.640 --> 00:41:06.749 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Well, are there any special cases for either planned or crisis?
00:41:08.670 --> 00:41:12.850 Mira Brancu: And I can think of like one in my mind where it's.
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:14.970 Mira Brancu: It's private.
00:41:15.140 --> 00:41:22.199 Mira Brancu: and you can't share a lot, right? A lot of things are happening in the background. Maybe it's like a merger acquisition. Maybe it's
00:41:22.340 --> 00:41:31.590 Mira Brancu: some like really sensitive legal issue, or Ipo issue, or whatever that you can't share a lot.
00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:39.990 Mira Brancu: Ben, what? How do you? How do you come off as genuine and like something's happening. But I can't tell you what's happening. What are your thoughts on that.
00:41:41.330 --> 00:41:44.659 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): I think you you say what you can say
00:41:44.820 --> 00:41:55.929 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? The hard thing about this is right, like, legally, you can't say a lot, and sometimes you get you get put into a box by by your lawyers.
00:41:56.430 --> 00:42:04.120 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And that's that's fine. But you just have to be able to say, Hey, right now, we can't. We can't talk about that right.
00:42:04.430 --> 00:42:15.640 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): But what I can tell you is, here's what's gonna happen next for these next few weeks, and you know I'd love to hear your your thoughts about you know where we're going, where, where, what are we not thinking about right now?
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:19.379 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Right like and and kind of engaging from that perspective.
00:42:21.510 --> 00:42:31.700 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): the lack of credibility, right, or the loss of credibility that happens when you, when you simply try to gloss over something, and don't acknowledge the elephant in the room.
00:42:32.345 --> 00:42:34.480 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Or when you try to shape
00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:37.230 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): a narrative that just doesn't fit.
00:42:38.660 --> 00:42:50.369 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Like my company is losing. You know we have a client that that was struggling. They were they were really losing share in one of their major divisions.
00:42:50.950 --> 00:43:04.989 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And they had to do a restructuring. As a result of that, they simply couldn't maintain the cost structure that they had anymore. And the Senior Executive didn't, didn't want to talk about that wanted to say, Hey, you know.
00:43:05.670 --> 00:43:18.150 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): we're shifting because of different administration priorities, or we're shifting because you know, we think that you know our our efforts are better placed elsewhere, but never acknowledging
00:43:19.220 --> 00:43:26.690 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): that that there were mistakes that had been made, or there was a fundamental disconnect between how the business was operating and what the market needed.
00:43:28.100 --> 00:43:30.570 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): But everybody knew right. So.
00:43:31.680 --> 00:43:38.330 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): That that type of disconnect I mean you. You lose trust on its space. As soon as people hear that message. They're like.
00:43:38.540 --> 00:43:39.830 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Oh, okay.
00:43:40.250 --> 00:43:46.590 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): got it right? I I'm gonna go be disengaged over here in the corner and update my resume like.
00:43:47.370 --> 00:43:49.010 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): yeah, it just doesn't work.
00:43:49.180 --> 00:43:52.549 Mira Brancu: It reminds me of when I was in.
00:43:52.860 --> 00:44:06.763 Mira Brancu: you know, management roles. And there were Hr issues that I couldn't talk about, and employees knew something was happening with another employee. But obviously it's none of their businesses. It's, you know, protected under Hr rules. Right? So
00:44:07.670 --> 00:44:16.330 Mira Brancu: I learned that. Even if you can't share the content, you can share the process.
00:44:16.490 --> 00:44:18.120 Mira Brancu: So you can say
00:44:18.250 --> 00:44:36.939 Mira Brancu: I can't tell you what's happening with so and so, because it's none of your business, because it's a protected thing under a law under Hr. Laws. However, I can tell you that whenever any of these things happen to any employee. There's a process. And here's the process, and we're working through the process. And
00:44:37.230 --> 00:44:57.330 Mira Brancu: that's all that we could share. But it maintained trust for me to just say that right? I wasn't like pretending or trying to cover it up with a lie or not acknowledge that it was present. I just acknowledged that there were certain things that I couldn't talk about, but I could talk about helping them understand
00:44:57.890 --> 00:44:59.509 Mira Brancu: that there's a process in place.
00:45:01.710 --> 00:45:05.440 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Saying what you can say goes so far because omission
00:45:05.780 --> 00:45:08.190 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): feels and reads the same as a lie.
00:45:08.420 --> 00:45:10.599 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:14.590 Mira Brancu: We're reaching another ad break. So when we come back.
00:45:15.066 --> 00:45:26.830 Mira Brancu: let's talk a little bit about anything that leaders can do to start setting themselves up for success, or things that they should be aware of, to look out for pitfalls and things like that.
00:45:27.050 --> 00:45:36.479 Mira Brancu: You're reaching sorry you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and our guest today, Katie Hu, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:47:13.050 --> 00:47:27.690 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and Katie Hu of Audacia strategies, and she is like a communication Guru for massive transformational changes within organizations.
00:47:27.970 --> 00:47:35.519 Mira Brancu: And so I would love to hear more from you about
00:47:35.730 --> 00:47:38.670 Mira Brancu: what should leaders be focusing on most?
00:47:39.286 --> 00:47:44.563 Mira Brancu: What should they be looking out for how do they sort of
00:47:45.110 --> 00:47:47.099 Mira Brancu: get started with all of this.
00:47:49.810 --> 00:47:55.800 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): So I think where leaders really need to start is.
00:47:56.010 --> 00:48:00.369 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): you know, we talked a little bit about this before, but getting out of their own echo Chamber
00:48:01.051 --> 00:48:04.580 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and being aware of when they're getting fed.
00:48:05.130 --> 00:48:06.220 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Information.
00:48:07.167 --> 00:48:24.889 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): You know, being able to have a pulse of your stakeholders, and that could be that could be investors that could be students that could be employees, whatever whatever that is in your situation, and it may be multiple stakeholder sets. But making sure you have a real pulse of it.
00:48:26.920 --> 00:48:39.850 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): will go a long way. As you're starting to craft your messaging, because what you can do then is really operate from a position of strength, and say, I really understand. You know.
00:48:40.430 --> 00:48:46.300 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): with how we believe this message is going to land right? How can I best help
00:48:46.460 --> 00:49:04.280 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): these stakeholders through the process right? Come through the change and be really excited about what's next right, or be really engaged in what's next? Even if excitement is not the 1st emotion that they're going to feel, but at least they're engaged in it
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:06.090 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and supporting it.
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:07.040 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:49:07.450 --> 00:49:11.030 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Being able to to share that with your with your team
00:49:11.350 --> 00:49:19.930 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): goes a really long way. And it it really also helps to make it a more, a more human communications process.
00:49:20.160 --> 00:49:35.080 Mira Brancu: Yeah, you know this again. This brings it back to kind of the conversation where we started. Which is you sharing? How you were really interested in politics and communications around those politics. And
00:49:35.260 --> 00:49:42.129 Mira Brancu: it's making me think about how much we've been discussing this in the last election cycle, about
00:49:42.670 --> 00:49:57.577 Mira Brancu: how well our politicians really understand what we want and how well they're able to connect with us and communicate it to us. And I would love to hear even more connections like, what do you see as
00:49:58.250 --> 00:50:06.080 Mira Brancu: things that like really good politicians do, or have done in the past that have broken that barrier
00:50:06.430 --> 00:50:13.880 Mira Brancu: that organizational leaders can sort of like. Take from, you know, politics into organizational communication.
00:50:16.140 --> 00:50:21.520 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): You know what I think. That is, 1st of all, awesome question.
00:50:22.300 --> 00:50:27.309 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Second of all, I I really think that what politics does is, they don't.
00:50:27.540 --> 00:50:31.349 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Certainly. Now we don't have the. We don't have rules.
00:50:31.460 --> 00:50:37.986 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): you know, in in academics and corporate America there feels like there are a lot of rules.
00:50:38.720 --> 00:50:40.080 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): In politics.
00:50:40.460 --> 00:50:41.970 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): You can keep it simple.
00:50:42.130 --> 00:50:49.130 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): You can get rid of the jargon right? But that's exactly what James Carville did. Oh, God! 30 years ago. Ish
00:50:49.510 --> 00:51:01.910 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? Change versus more of the same. It's the economy stupid. Don't forget about healthcare, that's literally all he wrote on that piece of paper on the wall. There was no like focus testing on those words
00:51:02.900 --> 00:51:10.749 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? There was no, there was no 20 people on a committee in a room wordsmithing. You know
00:51:11.010 --> 00:51:13.909 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): the messaging in order to make sure that we
00:51:14.560 --> 00:51:19.230 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): we articulated for for 15 different stakeholders. It was just
00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:25.740 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): the message, and being really simple and direct about it, and that is hard.
00:51:25.970 --> 00:51:31.190 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): It is really hard. It is harder than giving a very long, flowery speech.
00:51:32.310 --> 00:51:32.980 Mira Brancu: Yes.
00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:35.110 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And it requires understanding.
00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:40.090 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): So I think that's a big piece of it, right like, get simple. Get rid of the jargon.
00:51:40.720 --> 00:51:46.350 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): say the thing, but understand the context in which you're speaking.
00:51:47.590 --> 00:51:55.255 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And you can. You can have simplicity without understanding.
00:51:56.470 --> 00:52:02.519 Mira Brancu: I think that's that's what I'm hearing from you throughout is the focus on
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:06.570 Mira Brancu: the audience and what they need, and gathering insights
00:52:06.720 --> 00:52:13.900 Mira Brancu: to the point where you can create not just a simple message, but a simple message that resonates
00:52:14.890 --> 00:52:15.970 Mira Brancu: so. Yes.
00:52:17.360 --> 00:52:19.910 Mira Brancu: But my, my final question around this is like.
00:52:21.863 --> 00:52:26.700 Mira Brancu: not everybody. Does that effectively like, how how much effort
00:52:26.970 --> 00:52:30.179 Mira Brancu: does it take to get to understanding?
00:52:30.350 --> 00:52:33.500 Mira Brancu: That's a big, that's a big question. But like, what?
00:52:33.710 --> 00:52:34.929 Mira Brancu: What does that take.
00:52:36.460 --> 00:52:38.200 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): It takes curiosity.
00:52:39.435 --> 00:52:45.689 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And it takes humility, and it takes a willingness to
00:52:46.300 --> 00:52:50.650 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): to be wrong sometimes to get it wrong on the 1st iteration
00:52:52.740 --> 00:52:56.109 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): and that's you know nobody. Nobody likes to be wrong.
00:52:56.708 --> 00:53:02.890 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): And especially as a leader right? There's this sense. Oh, my gosh! I've got to get it right. I have to be invaluable
00:53:05.670 --> 00:53:11.499 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): when you engage others in the process right? There are things that you absolutely do have to get right as a leader.
00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:15.460 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): But you can also be curious, and you can ask the questions.
00:53:15.730 --> 00:53:23.209 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): even if it doesn't change the outcome right? Asking the questions and having having that dialogue goes a long way.
00:53:24.850 --> 00:53:30.850 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): To really think about what your audience needs, instead of what you need to say
00:53:31.220 --> 00:53:35.930 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): or want to say is complete are 2 completely different processes.
00:53:36.910 --> 00:53:38.309 Mira Brancu: Yes, and
00:53:40.700 --> 00:53:46.719 Mira Brancu: A lot of leaders feel like they need to present to their audience to their employees
00:53:46.840 --> 00:53:50.560 Mira Brancu: as like you said, infallible, highly competent.
00:53:51.592 --> 00:53:57.209 Mira Brancu: You can lean on me. You can believe in me, you can trust me. I have it all.
00:53:58.070 --> 00:53:59.040 Mira Brancu: But
00:53:59.430 --> 00:54:17.249 Mira Brancu: what that compromises is authenticity, curiosity. Leaning into learning, which is what you're saying, and the reality is, you can demonstrate competence and confidence and still be curious and humble at the same time.
00:54:17.550 --> 00:54:20.170 Mira Brancu: That's a lot of what I'm hearing today from you.
00:54:20.700 --> 00:54:28.380 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): A 100%. You you can't articulate a vision for the future without some level of of curiosity. Right? And
00:54:28.610 --> 00:54:31.709 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): the future by definition requires change.
00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:40.969 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): right? Which requires that humility, that that all of us are gonna have to change, whether you're a leader or a frontline employee.
00:54:41.430 --> 00:54:42.030 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:54:42.650 --> 00:54:50.280 Mira Brancu: Katie, this has been an amazing conversation. What is one thing out of all the things we talked about that you would like others to take away from today.
00:54:53.220 --> 00:55:06.729 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): As you think about whatever you need to communicate, whether it is a change or a new exciting promotion the communication isn't really about perfecting your message. It's about understanding your audience.
00:55:06.730 --> 00:55:07.300 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:55:07.790 --> 00:55:08.630 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Full stop.
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:13.400 Mira Brancu: Yes. And where can people find you to get more help with this.
00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:19.149 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): They can find us on the Internet at audaciastrategies.com.
00:55:19.550 --> 00:55:21.210 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): We are on Linkedin
00:55:21.590 --> 00:55:29.080 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): at audacia strategies, or they can follow me on Linkedin as well at Catherine Hare, HERR
00:55:30.690 --> 00:55:32.950 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Those would be the best places to find us.
00:55:33.530 --> 00:55:36.030 Mira Brancu: Awesome, awesome. So.
00:55:36.230 --> 00:55:47.110 Mira Brancu: audience, what did you take away from today? And more importantly, what is one small change that you can implement this week based on what you learned from Katie today.
00:55:47.250 --> 00:56:01.289 Mira Brancu: Share it with us on Linkedin or@talkradio.nyc. Where you can find us on Linkedin and Facebook and Instagram, Twitter Twitch. You could also find us, and on apple spotify and Amazon podcasts.
00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:08.429 Mira Brancu: And if you look us up over there, help us increase our visibility reach and impact by leaving a review.
00:56:08.810 --> 00:56:21.580 Mira Brancu: The stuff that we talk about and that I love to talk about on this show is part of my research-based strategic leadership pathway roadmap that I use to help socially conscious organizational misfits on their leadership journeys
00:56:21.690 --> 00:56:27.939 Mira Brancu: to learn more. You can check us out@www.go towerscope.com.
00:56:28.330 --> 00:56:40.380 Mira Brancu: We also offer structured supportive programs that help leaders avoid being blindsided, manage missteps, navigate workplace politics. As I mentioned, you can get my book. It's out now.
00:56:40.540 --> 00:56:54.620 Mira Brancu: Problematic people issues improving team effectiveness and organizational outcomes and gain more clarity, agency and confidence to take the next steps. In other words, all the hard skills you need to navigate leadership complexities
00:56:55.250 --> 00:56:59.819 Mira Brancu: and thank you to talkradio dot Nyc for hosting.
00:56:59.930 --> 00:57:08.630 Mira Brancu: Thank you for joining us today, Katie here of audacity. Audacia strategies. Thank you so much for joining us.
00:57:10.230 --> 00:57:11.319 Katy (Herr) Hew, Audacia Strategies | (she/her/hers): Thank you for having me.
00:57:11.320 --> 00:57:18.989 Mira Brancu: Absolutely great conversation, and have a great rest of your day. Everyone, wherever you're tuning in from bye. Everybody.
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