Tuesdays 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EDT)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
Have you ever wondered when it might be time to leave your job? Or how to keep repeating the same mistakes at work? Set yourself up for success? Make your voice heard? Create a healthy workplace for your team/employees? This episode is the virtual launch party for the "Millennials' Workbook for Navigating Workplace Politics" where we'll interview the co-authors, get a sneak peek into their framework and process, challenges for writing about these topics, and activities the audience can try right after listening.
Have you just graduated from school and are entering the workforce for the first time? Are you a millennial who has a tough time gelling with older generations of coworkers? Are you interested in leveling-up at work, having your voice heard, or moving into a leadership position? In this episode, Dr. Brancu, the host of the Hard Skills talks with her co-authors of the Millennials Workbook for Navigating Workplace Politics about how the workbook can help put into practice the principles outlined in their original guide published in 2021 (Millennials Guide to Workplace Politics).
The episode will also be their virtual launch party since the book comes out on this air date! We'll offer a sneak peek into talk what led to writing this workbook, how long it took, hiccups along the way, challenging decision points, and do a brief reading with several activities!
Sarah A. Rose is a project manager and consultant with 15 years of experience working for nonprofit organizations aiming to improve quality of life through education and science. Upon entering the workforce, Sarah struggled to reconcile her multiple identities in corporate America. During her tenure at the American Psychological Association, she was offered numerous personal and professional opportunities, one of which is co-authoring this book. Sarah executes her work through a lens of diversity, equity, and inclusion. This stems from her multicultural and bilingual upbringing as a German-American in a military family. She graduated with bachelor’s degrees in psychology and international studies. Sarah lives in Germany with her twin cats, Berlioz and Toulouse.
Dr. Jennifer Wisdom is a licensed clinical psychologist and board-certified organizational psychologist. She is principal of Wisdom Consulting, a Senior Organization Development Psychologist with the Veterans Health Administration’s National Center for Organization Development, and an Affiliated Professor at the Oregon Health and Science University. She has published and taught extensively on leadership and public health, including authoring the Millennials’ Guides series. She has a PhD in Clinical Psychology and a Master's of Public Health in Biostatistics and Epidemiology.
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LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
Guest sites:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarsonder
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferpeltwisdom/
https://www.leadwithwisdom.com/books
Book series on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CNRBP81H?binding=kindle_edition&searchxofy=true&ref_=dbs_s_aps_series_rwt_tkin&qid=1732221877&sr=8-1
Our website: www.gotowerscope.com
00:00:32.080 --> 00:00:43.370 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the most challenging soft skills required to navigate today's leadership complexities and tomorrow's unknowns.
00:00:43.390 --> 00:00:50.099 Mira Brancu: I'm your host, Dr. Mira Bronco, and our new millennials workbook
00:00:50.140 --> 00:00:55.699 Mira Brancu: for navigating workplace. Politics is coming out December 5.th
00:00:56.240 --> 00:01:03.250 Mira Brancu: And in honor of that I've been mentioning that season 6 to 9 are all dedicated to this topic.
00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:08.540 Mira Brancu: and today we have my other 2 co-authors
00:01:09.100 --> 00:01:11.890 Mira Brancu: as our virtual launch party today.
00:01:12.410 --> 00:01:19.080 Mira Brancu: we will talk about what led to writing this workbook. How long it took hiccups along the way.
00:01:19.130 --> 00:01:24.999 Mira Brancu: challenging decision points. And we're going to do a brief reading with several activities as well.
00:01:25.180 --> 00:01:27.269 Mira Brancu: So let me introduce them to you.
00:01:27.820 --> 00:01:43.189 Mira Brancu: Sarah. A. Rose is a project manager and consultant with 15 years of experience, working for nonprofit organizations aiming to improve quality of life through education and science, including working for the American Psychological Association.
00:01:43.410 --> 00:01:51.830 Mira Brancu: Upon entering the workforce, Sarah herself struggled to reconcile her multiple identities and achievement style in corporate America
00:01:52.470 --> 00:01:57.029 Mira Brancu: she executes her work through a lens of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:03.119 Mira Brancu: and that stems from her multicultural and bilingual upbringing. As a German American in a military family.
00:02:03.180 --> 00:02:08.470 Mira Brancu: She graduated with a bachelor's, with bachelor's degrees in psychology and international studies.
00:02:08.530 --> 00:02:17.749 Mira Brancu: and happens to now live in Germany with her twin cats, Brillios, and Toulouse. We will find out why she named those in a moment.
00:02:18.130 --> 00:02:27.310 Mira Brancu: Dr. Jennifer. Wisdom is a licensed clinical psychologist and board certified organizational psychologist, Chase, principal of wisdom consulting
00:02:27.340 --> 00:02:34.409 Mira Brancu: a senior Organizational Development Psychologist with the Veterans Health Administration's National Center for Organizational Development
00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:39.429 Mira Brancu: and an affiliate professor at the Oregon Health and Science University.
00:02:39.630 --> 00:02:45.550 Mira Brancu: She has published and taught extensively on Leadership and Public Health, including authoring
00:02:45.660 --> 00:02:50.749 Mira Brancu: the Millennials Guide Series. She's got an entire series. Yes, lots of them.
00:02:50.820 --> 00:03:07.879 Mira Brancu: She has a Phd. In clinical psychology and a master's of public health and biostats and epidemiology. That is some serious stuff right there, folks, and she has served in the military so pretty, impressive people here. I'm super excited to share them with you, with the world.
00:03:08.190 --> 00:03:11.170 Mira Brancu: So welcome, both of you. Jennifer and Sarah.
00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:12.550 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Thank you.
00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:21.210 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, let's let's start with a fun question, Sarah, where did you get your cats? And how did you name them?
00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:26.899 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Yeah, the boys are named after Disney's aristocats.
00:03:26.900 --> 00:03:29.270 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Oh, yes, so I'm
00:03:29.270 --> 00:03:54.860 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): not into painting. I don't know, composer, but I hear that all the time like, Oh, my gosh! Like these French whatever! No, no! Just Disney's aristocats! The boys were found in where I used to live in Washington, DC. And it was a litter of 3 cats, and the sister was white, and so I named them after Disney's aristocrats, and I ended up taking the 2 boys and the sister was adopted out. So that's where the name came from.
00:03:54.860 --> 00:04:01.550 Mira Brancu: Oh, makes sense, and so did you. I guess you traveled all the way to Germany on a plane with them.
00:04:01.720 --> 00:04:26.359 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): With the cats. Yes, it was, it was an extensive. I had been looking into this for years and years, because I knew I wanted to move back. And so I did my research. I contacted my people who have like done this before my best friend came with me to take a cat, because it's 1 person per cat. One of them did. Great, the other one cried the whole time, and it was
00:04:26.500 --> 00:04:39.010 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Yeah, it was, and I was, you know he's mama's boy to lose. So he was with me the whole time, but we got separated. It was a night. It was a nightmare traveling here, but we made it, and the happy and yeah.
00:04:39.010 --> 00:04:44.070 Mira Brancu: I can't imagine. Also, I had no idea one person per cat. That's interesting.
00:04:44.070 --> 00:04:49.269 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Yes, yes, and there's a weight limit and and extensive paperwork. It's very expensive.
00:04:49.921 --> 00:04:54.439 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Yes, but we did it, and we're here. And they, you know, they're happy.
00:04:54.440 --> 00:04:58.720 Mira Brancu: Good good Jennifer cats of your own dogs.
00:04:59.290 --> 00:05:08.630 Jennifer Wisdom: No cats, but I also adopted a dog. When I lived in Washington, DC. And the dog was named. We named the dog Florida, after Florida Avenue, where it was found.
00:05:09.081 --> 00:05:16.060 Mira Brancu: Oh, I love that! I love that we we had a pandemic pat
00:05:16.602 --> 00:05:22.859 Mira Brancu: name, Pug. We did not name the cat. He just came with the name Pug, and we just said fine.
00:05:23.070 --> 00:05:31.390 Mira Brancu: and he was a perfectly old cat. I wanted an old cat, and we got a 12 year old, and he lasted till 15.
00:05:31.770 --> 00:05:32.170 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): And.
00:05:32.397 --> 00:05:34.219 Mira Brancu: It was just the right amount of time.
00:05:34.740 --> 00:05:36.200 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Yes, yeah.
00:05:36.290 --> 00:05:38.980 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Good for you. Thank you for adopting the older cat.
00:05:39.750 --> 00:05:42.309 Mira Brancu: Okay, let's get to the serious business here. So
00:05:43.760 --> 00:05:59.810 Mira Brancu: Sarah, you mentioned that. You know, you yourself had kind of like a an interesting experience navigating the corporate world once you got out of school. And I'd love to hear kind of what those experiences were like
00:06:00.260 --> 00:06:01.789 Mira Brancu: after graduating.
00:06:02.300 --> 00:06:04.580 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Yeah. So I
00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:20.684 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I want to start this story by saying I was always like, you know, military family straight, a student like teacher's pet. I didn't go to recess. I sat in the classroom and like wanted to do worksheets. Hence the workbook. I've always loved that
00:06:21.060 --> 00:06:31.100 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): and e even through college like I did really. Well, I connected with all my professors. If I needed help I got a tutor like I was at all the office hours.
00:06:31.380 --> 00:06:45.449 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): and then I got my first.st I got my job before I even graduated like I had a job lined up. I moved to DC 2 weeks after graduating new city and thrown into corporate world. And
00:06:45.810 --> 00:06:47.809 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): what I remember is like
00:06:48.110 --> 00:06:54.059 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): not really connecting with people the way I used to connect with people like it was kind of coming across as like
00:06:54.792 --> 00:07:09.309 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): there was something missing. There was some type of wall where I just could like. I couldn't get over this wall, and people started making comments to my supervisor about it, and when my performance review, my Provisionary Review came around I didn't meet expectations.
00:07:09.980 --> 00:07:15.879 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): And I was like someone. It's like being punched in the gut like I had never.
00:07:16.140 --> 00:07:19.489 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): This is like a failing grade, and I didn't.
00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:23.929 Mira Brancu: Like a straight a student is not, does not expect that as an outcome right.
00:07:24.150 --> 00:07:25.709 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I was shocked.
00:07:26.237 --> 00:07:44.720 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I was not at that job very long, but it was. It just got worse from there. There was behavioral issue issues that were being cited. I didn't know what to do. I went to Hr. I had a really challenging boss, and there was just like.
00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:50.950 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I was looking to people who who knew this world, and no one was helping me.
00:07:51.387 --> 00:07:59.309 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): And I felt like I was asking for help. And these people with these titles, right? Like the leadership.
00:07:59.410 --> 00:08:04.710 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): podcast there's lots of people in leadership positions with titles, but they don't know
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:09.619 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): how to help a new person coming into the workplace. So
00:08:09.690 --> 00:08:13.530 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): you know, I ended up leaving that job. It just got worse and worse.
00:08:13.917 --> 00:08:33.562 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I just needed to move on, and luckily I found a workplace that I did really well at, and had good mentors and and millennials like me. Who could you know I could observe what a millennial is doing in the workplace. I also had a millennial boss like that was so helpful.
00:08:34.020 --> 00:08:39.829 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): And then, to kind of help myself move up. But even at that next job, like.
00:08:39.990 --> 00:08:45.859 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I hit a ceiling and there was a point where I
00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:49.459 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): was asking myself, like, I'm doing all the right things.
00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:51.440 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): But then, of course.
00:08:51.590 --> 00:08:57.479 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): having found the book, I realized that I wasn't. I wasn't doing the right things. I was being loud.
00:08:57.530 --> 00:09:04.989 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): and that's not being loud isn't gonna be helpful. I mean, like.
00:09:05.310 --> 00:09:09.819 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): yeah, you have. You have to be strategic. And that's I think, what I learned
00:09:09.850 --> 00:09:15.509 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): from the book. So I had 10 years of all that, and it was just
00:09:15.790 --> 00:09:26.770 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): when I came across the book I was like, where has this been my whole life. If that would have been such a good guide like that. That 1st job. It was just horrible. It was horrible. Yeah.
00:09:26.770 --> 00:09:38.310 Mira Brancu: And and for all of those of you who don't know, Sarah is referring to the 1st guide that came out about 2021 which was called the Millennials Guide to Workplace politics.
00:09:38.430 --> 00:09:56.440 Mira Brancu: and this new one is a workbook. It doesn't have to be a companion to it. You can have it all alone. That's how we intended it to be, but that's kind of what Sarah's referring to from 3 years ago, when she came across it. So thank you for for sharing that
00:09:56.520 --> 00:10:03.990 Mira Brancu: experience. There's a lot of things that resonated for me there. One of the reasons that I was so
00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:11.040 Mira Brancu: excited to work with Jennifer in the you know, when we publish the 1st guide is that
00:10:11.781 --> 00:10:15.038 Mira Brancu: you know I've I've talked about this a lot.
00:10:16.280 --> 00:10:22.440 Mira Brancu: because I came here as an immigrant with, you know, and and English was a second language for me.
00:10:22.680 --> 00:10:30.870 Mira Brancu: I spent a really long time learning how to just understand the language of my new country, and
00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:39.260 Mira Brancu: Once I did that. I was, you know, sort of educationally successful. I
00:10:39.370 --> 00:10:44.710 Mira Brancu: wouldn't say I was always completely successful with
00:10:44.830 --> 00:10:54.089 Mira Brancu: navigating the sort of unspoken rules of Who's cool and who's popular and all of that stuff until later on.
00:10:54.463 --> 00:10:58.000 Mira Brancu: But what I learned when I started my 1st job
00:10:58.210 --> 00:11:11.519 Mira Brancu: as a school counselor. Is that just because you understand the language of your country and the language of the fundamentals of your degree. To, you know. Do the work
00:11:11.570 --> 00:11:14.860 Mira Brancu: does not mean that you will succeed
00:11:14.990 --> 00:11:30.919 Mira Brancu: because you also have to learn how to navigate the culture, the culture of your country, as well as the culture of every single organization that you navigate, has its own culture and unspoken rules that go beyond what, like the policies and the Handbook say.
00:11:31.030 --> 00:11:34.839 Mira Brancu: and once. That was
00:11:34.930 --> 00:11:53.399 Mira Brancu: sort of translated for me. I was very inspired to translate that in simple ways for other people and break it all down to help. And I'm so glad that it sort of came across your, you know desk
00:11:53.757 --> 00:12:01.409 Mira Brancu: and you found that the translation of those you know, sort of quote unquote, unspoken rules was useful to you as well.
00:12:02.174 --> 00:12:09.820 Mira Brancu: We'll come back to that in a moment. But, Jennifer, you have written entire millennials guidebook series.
00:12:10.050 --> 00:12:12.849 Mira Brancu: Not just this, not just on politics.
00:12:12.940 --> 00:12:18.080 Mira Brancu: I'm curious. What led you to decide to just offer that.
00:12:19.230 --> 00:12:39.209 Jennifer Wisdom: Absolutely. It was so great, so wonderful to hear Sarah's story as sad as it was because I also struggled with some of those kinds of things early on in my career, and just feeling like there's a game going on that I didn't know what it was, but clearly other people knew what it was.
00:12:39.210 --> 00:13:03.640 Jennifer Wisdom: So as I got older, I decided once I started hearing the news about millennials, and everyone was bashing millennials and blaming them for everything, and as a Gen. Xer, I certainly got my share of blame for things when it was our turn, but I just felt really badly for millennials who were just trying to make it in the world and don't understand all of the details of what's happening. So
00:13:03.780 --> 00:13:06.319 Jennifer Wisdom: I also realized as I was moving up
00:13:06.340 --> 00:13:17.419 Jennifer Wisdom: as a psychologist, and in academia, which I know are not the typical jobs. But still there was a lot of stuff that people didn't share with you that
00:13:17.610 --> 00:13:31.540 Jennifer Wisdom: I thought would be really important. So I've in many ways made my career. And certainly the book series around talking about the things that no one ever tells you, and even the part of the book titles is always what no one told you about
00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:43.400 Jennifer Wisdom: politics and power and management and leadership, and being successful at work and building relationships and getting your stuff together and all those kinds of things. So
00:13:43.420 --> 00:13:46.549 Jennifer Wisdom: it's really important for me to be able to give back.
00:13:47.610 --> 00:14:00.720 Mira Brancu: That's such a mentor mentality. Not everybody wants to to offer that, but that is, it takes, you know, somebody who enjoys mentorship to offer that in book form
00:14:00.750 --> 00:14:02.934 Mira Brancu: many, many book forms.
00:14:04.160 --> 00:14:23.930 Jennifer Wisdom: Many. Yes, I think we're up to 13 or 14 now, but I should say it wasn't completely altruistic. I had a lot of junior students that I was mentoring. And I realized I was saying the same thing over and over because they were bringing lots of the same challenges. So I thought, let's write this down and get it out to more people. Yeah, yeah.
00:14:23.930 --> 00:14:52.619 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. We are reaching an ad break when we come back from this ad break. I want to talk about like, why, a workbook. We already had a book. Why, a workbook. So when we come back, that's what we'll talk about. You're listening to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest. Today Sarah Rose and Dr. Jennifer wisdom we air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern. At that time you will find us live streaming on Linkedin, Youtube and several other locations@talkradio.nyc.
00:14:52.680 --> 00:14:55.329 Mira Brancu: And we will be right back in just a moment.
00:17:07.650 --> 00:17:24.330 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Bronku and our guest today, Dr. Jennifer Wisdom, and Sarah A. Rose who are also my co-authors for the millennials workbook for navigating workplace politics.
00:17:24.930 --> 00:17:31.989 Mira Brancu: So, Sarah, based on kind of your experiences when you picked up this book.
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:40.510 Mira Brancu: what did you find most helpful when you originally picked up the guide that came out in 2021? What was it about that
00:17:40.540 --> 00:17:46.569 Mira Brancu: that made you feel like you were getting, you know, something out of it, something useful.
00:17:46.630 --> 00:17:51.475 Mira Brancu: And then and then I'm curious like, how did you decide? Well, now, we need a workbook.
00:17:51.760 --> 00:17:57.230 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Yeah, I mean, all of that happened very quickly. So
00:17:57.250 --> 00:18:14.839 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): the 1st thing I did when I picked up the book was read the intro, obviously, and the intro for the the book is actually pretty much the same as it is in our workbook. And it had. There's a list of 8 basic rules.
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:37.100 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): And I read it like a couple of years ago. And I'm like, How did I not know any of these 8 basic rules. And I was sending them to everyone like, Did you know this? And they're like, Yeah, like that makes so much. But it's like no one ever said this to me. And I, for example, 3 of them that really stuck out to me was writing emails like, they will be published in the media
00:18:37.100 --> 00:18:52.009 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I was like, oh, that makes so much sense, and nobody does it. But how like my life could have been so much different if I had always had that in mind. 2 others were, be patient. Sometimes people are working on my behalf to make things better.
00:18:52.310 --> 00:19:05.229 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I'm sure my boss would really appreciate that one and then healthy skepticism taking not taking everything at face value, which Mary, you have said to me. I'm like your brother, I mean, it's just like I
00:19:05.970 --> 00:19:21.400 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I see what I see, and you're giving me what you're giving me, and I believe you. So I think that one was very important to me. So I was like, this book is going to be for me just by those 8 rules and the book itself. Really
00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:29.180 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): it was easy to turn into a workbook because there were so many things that was like. This is what you want to look for. This is what you need to do
00:19:29.390 --> 00:19:39.520 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): so. A lot of it was easy to just throw into a workbook and add some lines and have, you know, because it is reflective. And
00:19:39.560 --> 00:19:45.600 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): yeah, so why a workbook for me? I had also come across the book
00:19:45.730 --> 00:19:55.079 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): right? When I had graduated from a dialectical behavior therapy program which uses a workbook. And
00:19:55.120 --> 00:20:07.199 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I. It was interesting because when I started the program I didn't see a lot of merits to it. And my therapist, who was running the groups was saying, like, you know.
00:20:07.270 --> 00:20:30.739 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): that in the beginning I had kind of a negative like, how is this going to work for me? And then in 6 months I was there telling people how it worked for me and like. And it was. And he was like, it's I just remember that, and he used it a couple of times like Sarah was the one who said, like, you know, how is this going to work? And it worked, and I still use it to this day. And I flip back to those pages and
00:20:31.109 --> 00:20:41.819 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): different experiences. You know you can use the same activity with different experiences and learn something new every time. So the workbook made a lot of sense for me.
00:20:42.030 --> 00:20:48.310 Mira Brancu: Hmm, yeah. Yeah. What is it about a workbook that
00:20:50.310 --> 00:20:56.900 Mira Brancu: sort of transforms the book content for you into something that feels?
00:20:56.940 --> 00:21:04.300 Mira Brancu: I mean, at least, you know, like, from your experience, it sounded like it was so transformative. What was what is it about? A workbook that feels like
00:21:04.700 --> 00:21:05.640 Mira Brancu: transformative.
00:21:06.565 --> 00:21:09.390 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I think, because you're turning
00:21:09.690 --> 00:21:33.349 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): what's on the page into something that is going on in your life. And so so I really like that kind of learning. I like to take notes when I read. And I journal. So when I see something like, you know, next time you're in this situation. I'm like that. Should there should be lines there like I should be using that. I don't want to just read it. I want to like.
00:21:33.430 --> 00:21:39.067 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): take notes and like, come back to it. And I that's how I learn
00:21:39.560 --> 00:21:46.740 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): reading something. I'm not going to put into action if I just read it. So yeah.
00:21:46.970 --> 00:21:58.600 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There. There's something about like, you make it sound like it's all this, you know, simple, just a couple of lines there. But you actually put a lot of thought
00:21:58.700 --> 00:22:08.270 Mira Brancu: into how to help people use the information we had in the guide in a way that
00:22:09.436 --> 00:22:16.469 Mira Brancu: would be like personally reflective and take action
00:22:16.690 --> 00:22:19.069 Mira Brancu: like find ways to take action.
00:22:19.080 --> 00:22:39.269 Mira Brancu: And so it's not like just a journal, right? There's there's a lot of deep thought that that went into that. We're going to talk more about that in a little bit like what actually went into thinking about each of these exercises, all the activities, how to sort of translate a book into something that
00:22:39.520 --> 00:22:47.769 Mira Brancu: is reflective, transformative, action oriented. There's a lot that goes into that. But before we get there. Jennifer. I'm wondering
00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:52.320 Mira Brancu: if we could just have a reading of the book.
00:22:52.760 --> 00:22:59.970 Mira Brancu: and like some pieces that will help people understand like why we wrote this, and you know what's what we're trying to pull at.
00:23:00.620 --> 00:23:26.210 Jennifer Wisdom: Yeah, absolutely. And I will point out all of the millennials. Guides are designed to be actionable. And I think workbook helps really push that forward. But all of them are focused on. Here's here's a problem you might be having. Here are 8 or 10 things you can do to try to make this better. So I think the way Sarah envisioned turning this book into a workbook was just genius.
00:23:26.390 --> 00:23:32.860 Jennifer Wisdom: So okay, so I have part of the introduction that talks about how we think about politics. So I'll read this one.
00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:41.539 Jennifer Wisdom: The word politics may make you bristle, conjuring up images of dirty politics used in background, backroom self-serving deals.
00:23:41.660 --> 00:23:51.449 Jennifer Wisdom: The term politics has become mostly overtaken by negative, sometimes abusive political tactics that are associated with selfish pursuits of personal power.
00:23:52.040 --> 00:24:01.910 Jennifer Wisdom: Politics can be intentional or unintentional, and come in many forms with the self-serving cutthroat type being only one, and that is an unhealthy type.
00:24:02.830 --> 00:24:18.219 Jennifer Wisdom: Workplace. Politics are defined here as the processes and behaviors between people in a workplace that include power, authority, communication, and networking to create change that benefits the organization or the people within it.
00:24:18.650 --> 00:24:33.259 Jennifer Wisdom: Workplace politics, moreover, are part of everyday life. Talented managers and leaders who do not engage in politics at work often get left out of important decision-making processes and fail to progress or thrive in their career.
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:39.019 Jennifer Wisdom: Positive, honest politics can help you become a better leader when used appropriately.
00:24:41.100 --> 00:24:48.731 Mira Brancu: Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah. I mean, I think that that intro sums up our philosophy that
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:55.580 Mira Brancu: the reason so many people don't engage in it. At least, people who are
00:24:55.740 --> 00:25:02.949 Mira Brancu: sort of hardworking, conscientious want to make a difference. Kind of folks is that they think
00:25:04.031 --> 00:25:07.880 Mira Brancu: and have been unfortunately you know.
00:25:10.100 --> 00:25:13.760 Mira Brancu: touched by negative negatively affected by
00:25:14.167 --> 00:25:27.270 Mira Brancu: negative politics. But politics in and of itself is simply working through relationships and networking and influence and things that you need for a well functioning. You know, organization or community or group
00:25:27.760 --> 00:25:36.749 Mira Brancu: and it's all about how you use it. Are you using it for good or for bad. Are you using it for selfish reasons, or, you know, positive outcomes that affect everyone.
00:25:36.860 --> 00:25:38.230 Mira Brancu: And so
00:25:38.968 --> 00:25:43.709 Mira Brancu: that's that's kind of how we're moving into it. How we moved into the original guide right?
00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:58.799 Mira Brancu: There was also kind of an additional piece to this Jennifer, that, like you and I originally had to talk through like the composition of the book, and we decided to do proactive measures in, like the 1st half of the book.
00:25:58.810 --> 00:26:03.490 Mira Brancu: and then reactive measures in the second half. I'm curious if you could speak a little bit to that.
00:26:04.080 --> 00:26:05.513 Jennifer Wisdom: Yeah, absolutely.
00:26:06.610 --> 00:26:19.708 Jennifer Wisdom: Mira, you're amazing. And you have had so many wonderful workplace experiences. And your experiences have been different from my experiences. And I think Mira came into this thinking,
00:26:20.670 --> 00:26:28.349 Jennifer Wisdom: if you just do the right thing and clarify what you mean, and you're an honest player, that things are going to be just fine.
00:26:28.530 --> 00:26:46.720 Jennifer Wisdom: And my early work experience is full of examples when that's just. Not. That was not my experience, and that was not the case. So, for example, when I got my 1st leadership position, I told myself, I'm not going to do politics. That's just not going to be part of what I do. I'm not going to get into that stuff.
00:26:46.730 --> 00:26:48.009 Jennifer Wisdom: and within
00:26:48.230 --> 00:26:55.360 Jennifer Wisdom: 2 weeks somebody was trying to steal my staff, steal my my stuff and make me look bad. And I thought.
00:26:55.550 --> 00:27:14.860 Jennifer Wisdom: oh, like, I said in the reading, you can't stay out of politics without actually harming yourself at minimum. You need to pay attention to what's going on around you. So that's when we identified building on each of our strengths, Mira would write the proactive section on what you can do ahead of time
00:27:14.860 --> 00:27:33.630 Jennifer Wisdom: or kind of in your job already to help protect you in case of bad stuff coming up things like communicating clearly and learning about your organization? What do people value in your organization? What do you value? What kind of a leader or participant in the workplace do you want to be.
00:27:33.730 --> 00:27:49.500 Jennifer Wisdom: And then I took on the reactive strategies which are what to do when things get messed up. So how do you deal when you're trying to just do your job and be a good person, and someone is backstopping you, or someone is is
00:27:49.520 --> 00:28:04.630 Jennifer Wisdom: speaking badly about you, or there's lots of toxic gossip in the office or something else. So it ended up working out really nicely, and I think those were very important discussions we had about how to frame the book, and we carried that over into the workbook as well.
00:28:05.030 --> 00:28:07.204 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, I think that
00:28:08.170 --> 00:28:19.070 Mira Brancu: you know, works so nicely and and complementary to our strengths, and also set up that you need to 1st make sure that you've set yourself up
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:31.070 Mira Brancu: fully for success or minimize the likelihood that you're the one contributing to the problem before you start doing the reactive measures right? And I really like. How then, we, added
00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:54.580 Mira Brancu: Sarah, as our voice of the customer, she was the one that you know, sort of connected with us. She was a millennial. She had read our book. She was excited about translating it into this sort of new form in order to use it more interactively. And sort of that added like yet another element. So when we're reaching another ad break, though when we come back
00:28:55.197 --> 00:29:12.560 Mira Brancu: I want us to sort of get into some of the actual activities. What are our favorites? Why, there are our favorites. What were the hardest, you know? What were sort of the some of the challenges that we faced. We're going to get like sneak, peek background of what it took to actually write this book and struggle with some of these things.
00:29:12.620 --> 00:29:25.379 Mira Brancu: You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Miro Branco and our guests today, Sarah A. Rose and Dr. Jennifer wisdom. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern, and we will be right back in just a moment.
00:31:30.360 --> 00:31:38.749 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and my co-authors today of the new
00:31:39.070 --> 00:31:45.180 Mira Brancu: millennials workbook for navigating workplace politics out, published
00:31:45.510 --> 00:31:47.710 Mira Brancu: on December 5, th in just a few days.
00:31:50.100 --> 00:31:52.930 Mira Brancu: Dr. Jennifer, Wisdom, and Sarah A. Rose.
00:31:53.070 --> 00:31:56.320 Mira Brancu: And so I'm curious.
00:31:56.620 --> 00:32:02.839 Mira Brancu: We've been sort of talking about like what it took for us to sort of get together to write this
00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:07.210 Mira Brancu: workbook what it took to write the original Millennials Guide to Workplace politics.
00:32:08.930 --> 00:32:11.710 Mira Brancu: Let's get into some of our favorite parts
00:32:11.780 --> 00:32:15.670 Mira Brancu: of the book. Are there any activities either of you?
00:32:16.734 --> 00:32:22.948 Mira Brancu: Really enjoyed pulling together out of the original book, or
00:32:23.630 --> 00:32:29.250 Mira Brancu: any that you're most proud of, because it was kind of really hard, and it took some thought to put together.
00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:43.889 Jennifer Wisdom: I'll say there are a couple that I really love, in part because I teach these all the time, and because I can see how much of a big difference they make for people. One is on how to have an effective meeting.
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.700 Jennifer Wisdom: and some of the activities around how to
00:32:47.010 --> 00:33:04.060 Jennifer Wisdom: take notes, how to make sure everyone's involved meaning checklist. All those pieces. Every time I teach this, people say, Wow, can you teach this to everyone in our organization, so that one I really love, and being able to put it in a workbook makes it even easier for me to teach it to other people as well.
00:33:04.260 --> 00:33:07.430 Jennifer Wisdom: The other one I really love is about giving feedback.
00:33:07.560 --> 00:33:14.460 Jennifer Wisdom: And I specifically like the readiness for feedback checklist around
00:33:14.800 --> 00:33:37.160 Jennifer Wisdom: it basically asks you to think through giving feedback before you provide it. So do you know what you want to say? Do you know what you're hoping to achieve in this conversation? Do you have language that you can use to help the other person understand you is the feedback actionable. So on. So those kinds of things that just
00:33:37.210 --> 00:33:40.859 Jennifer Wisdom: make you pause and think, think through.
00:33:41.170 --> 00:34:01.800 Jennifer Wisdom: What am I trying to do here? What am I trying to achieve? Because I think so many times we get caught up in. Well, I need to give that person feedback. I need to tell them what's going on, or what they did wrong, or where they screwed up, or whatever. And we don't really think about all of those things that we put in the workbook around. Think through what is the goal you're trying to achieve here.
00:34:01.800 --> 00:34:16.479 Jennifer Wisdom: It's not just to get out your frustration because the person messed up it's to help them do better, it may be to help them do better to help them redo the project to help them become more motivated, to do the work and be successful rather than just
00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:27.809 Jennifer Wisdom: carping at them, because you're unhappy with what they did. So all of those I love, all of it. But the feedback. How to give feedback and how to run a meeting are definitely my 2 personal favorites.
00:34:28.010 --> 00:34:33.869 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. I feel like there's such.
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:37.129 Mira Brancu: They're both such common challenges.
00:34:37.179 --> 00:34:41.710 Mira Brancu: Everyone is frustrated at work when you have a bad meeting or a series of.
00:34:42.139 --> 00:34:47.350 Mira Brancu: you know, just unproductive, ineffective meetings. Right? So if leaders
00:34:47.800 --> 00:35:03.769 Mira Brancu: can become better. You know, or leads of meetings, anybody who's facilitating a meeting can learn from this can become better. You're like everybody's best friend. And second, giving and receiving feedback is probably the most stressful thing most people experience.
00:35:03.940 --> 00:35:05.940 Mira Brancu: And so if you could have
00:35:06.200 --> 00:35:10.680 Mira Brancu: some ways to think about it. I I think that you know we're
00:35:11.150 --> 00:35:17.500 Mira Brancu: we could have written a book on just that, and that would have been valuable. We did more than that. But yes, agreed.
00:35:17.500 --> 00:35:17.900 Jennifer Wisdom: Okay.
00:35:17.900 --> 00:35:19.310 Mira Brancu: What about you, Sarah?
00:35:19.310 --> 00:35:35.000 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I I think the feedback pieces. I wrote it down because I'm like we did. We did write about that and it is something I use in my interviews. When I tell people like who I am, what you can expect from me. I say I appreciate feedback, and you can expect feedback from me.
00:35:35.140 --> 00:35:37.860 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I think I could use that checklist. Okay?
00:35:38.380 --> 00:36:06.819 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Because, yeah, I'm pretty direct. I probably give feedback when it happens, and that might not be the best thing to do. So I'm gonna be looking at that readiness feedback checklist more often. My activities, I think. I wrote down chapter 7, which is how to add organizational value, adding organizational value.
00:36:07.252 --> 00:36:33.717 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): And it's a Venn diagram and organizational gaps and pain points are in one circle your expertise, my expertise and experiences in the second circle, and then figuring out like, what? How can you bring those 2 together? How can your experience and expertise meet the need of the organization and writing some goals. I thought that one was super cool. I can't wait to use it in another in a new job.
00:36:34.670 --> 00:36:52.079 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): my second one. I wrote this chapter when I had started a new job, and it was what to do when you make a mistake. Chapter 14. And I had just made a mistake, and I was like, Oh, my gosh! I wish I had done all these things that I was writing.
00:36:52.250 --> 00:36:56.150 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): That is definitely my favorite chapter, because it it
00:36:56.750 --> 00:36:59.410 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): guides you through. What? What is the mistake?
00:36:59.730 --> 00:37:03.090 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): All the pieces, looking at all the pieces of the mistake like.
00:37:03.120 --> 00:37:22.870 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): what was the other person thinking like? And then bringing it all together of like following up with that person, and like keeping yourself in check, making sure you didn't. You don't continue to make the same mistake. So for me, I was like, that's my favorite chapter. I'm going to tell people about it, and I'm going to use it often.
00:37:23.370 --> 00:37:35.699 Mira Brancu: Awesome. I love hearing what your favorite chapters were, I love those, and I might add one final one. This is really specific to people in leadership roles.
00:37:35.700 --> 00:37:54.709 Mira Brancu: and especially those who don't necessarily always have access to formal leadership development. And this is something that those of you who have been listening to my show. There's a reason I put this show together. There's a reason I wrote these books. There's a reason that I have a Taroscope Leadership Academy. It's all because.
00:37:55.550 --> 00:38:09.080 Mira Brancu: I have a goal of making leadership development more affordable and accessible to more people. Usually there's only so many resources available within an organization to support leaders and
00:38:09.808 --> 00:38:13.239 Mira Brancu: one of those resources are for leadership assessments
00:38:13.370 --> 00:38:20.710 Mira Brancu: and what's called 360 s. 360 degree feedback assessments where you get feedback
00:38:20.830 --> 00:38:22.829 Mira Brancu: from your peers.
00:38:22.890 --> 00:38:34.290 Mira Brancu: from the people that you supervise. If you are supervising folks, and from the superiors or supervisors above you the leaders who see how you're doing. And
00:38:34.370 --> 00:38:38.749 Mira Brancu: if you can imagine this is like a 360 around you.
00:38:38.850 --> 00:38:43.870 Mira Brancu: of how you're being perceived. We don't always know whether the
00:38:43.940 --> 00:38:56.350 Mira Brancu: intention that we put into our work is received in the same way is the impact the same? Is it different? Is it perceived differently that is so valuable to open up the gaps in our blind spots, and
00:38:56.540 --> 00:39:05.179 Mira Brancu: how other people see us, and as well as hidden strengths that we don't realize we have. But other people see us with those strengths. And that's what a 360 is.
00:39:05.290 --> 00:39:16.980 Mira Brancu: So what we did in this book is translate, how can you do an informal 360 when you don't have access to formal assessments in a way that is
00:39:17.735 --> 00:39:26.010 Mira Brancu: systematic and thoughtful and gathers the right data. So you can start making sense of it and
00:39:26.210 --> 00:39:33.619 Mira Brancu: putting into place your own leadership plan, even if that's not readily available. So I'm like, super excited about that one.
00:39:36.050 --> 00:39:43.590 Mira Brancu: So yeah, with that, said, I want to go back, Sarah, to one of the activities that you mentioned.
00:39:44.731 --> 00:39:51.349 Mira Brancu: The organizational value. I'm actually kind of excited and proud of that one, too, because
00:39:51.390 --> 00:39:57.649 Mira Brancu: it is. And we didn't plant this. She just chose, you know, whichever ones she thought were, you know, interesting to her.
00:39:57.860 --> 00:40:03.460 Mira Brancu: It was actually one of the chapters that we redesign.
00:40:04.010 --> 00:40:08.530 Mira Brancu: The old chapter was about how to become indispensable.
00:40:08.990 --> 00:40:13.279 Mira Brancu: and I wrote it at a time when it made sense
00:40:13.640 --> 00:40:22.969 Mira Brancu: that you become indispensable over the last several years, though there's been a lot of backlash about how much you give. Give. Give to an organization
00:40:23.535 --> 00:40:31.794 Mira Brancu: as opposed to how much you need to sort of place boundaries and protecting your own time and need for rest and
00:40:32.450 --> 00:40:45.399 Mira Brancu: all of those things. And so, as I thought through that, as I've had group coaching programs around this book, and I've gotten some feedback around that, or questioning around the word indispensable. And what that means, especially for marginalized leaders.
00:40:45.700 --> 00:40:52.280 Mira Brancu: I decided to adjust it. And I really thought through like, do we eliminate it completely?
00:40:52.310 --> 00:40:56.909 Mira Brancu: Or is there something that we can extract out of this that is still really relevant.
00:40:57.100 --> 00:41:12.510 Mira Brancu: and the organizational value, and especially what you spoke to Sarah around filling what what is called structural holes within an organization where you fill in gaps that nobody else can because of your skills and your interests. And you know, the available resources
00:41:12.680 --> 00:41:17.349 Mira Brancu: is is still something that I think is very valuable. We just had to really
00:41:17.580 --> 00:41:24.829 Mira Brancu: think that one through. And I'm curious from your perspectives. What were other sort of areas of the book that
00:41:24.940 --> 00:41:29.240 Mira Brancu: you know you found challenging we had to think through. We had to
00:41:29.620 --> 00:41:38.109 Mira Brancu: challenge each other and question, does it make sense this way that you remember to make, like, you know, some hard decisions.
00:41:40.190 --> 00:41:50.279 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I'm happy to go. I had some notes that I wrote down about this, but now I'm thinking back to the chapter that was the hardest for me. Which was about
00:41:50.640 --> 00:41:59.809 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): what happens when? I don't. It was chapter 9. What happens when you like? Gain power and what to look for and that one was
00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:18.280 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): so hard, and I mean that just came to mind. I can't talk extensively about it, because I did not take notes on it. But the chapters I did take notes on were the definitions chapters. Those were hard because there's a ton of definitions.
00:42:18.550 --> 00:42:25.549 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): We turn them into checklists. There's other reflective activities. But the last.
00:42:26.710 --> 00:42:39.170 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): There's a bunch of chapters with definitions on problematic behaviors particularly. And then we have a chapter on resources. So those were hard for me. I don't know if
00:42:39.390 --> 00:42:47.129 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): y'all want to chime in and talk about where we ended up with that, and and what you think about, where we ended up with those.
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:57.489 Jennifer Wisdom: So I really was challenged by writing the chapter on prioritizing and choosing your battles.
00:42:58.940 --> 00:43:05.150 Jennifer Wisdom: For 2 reasons. One is like I love the prioritizing, but I always need specifics.
00:43:05.290 --> 00:43:14.059 Jennifer Wisdom: and to help understand what is what's going on. And then I can help a person think through their prioritizing. So it was a bit of a challenge to me to kind of
00:43:14.070 --> 00:43:16.879 Jennifer Wisdom: to translate that to a workbook page
00:43:17.290 --> 00:43:40.220 Jennifer Wisdom: around. What? What are the things that are going on for you. And then how do you want to prioritize? And the choosing your battles? Part is something I've struggled with for a while because I want to win every battle, and I want to take it all on so obviously, that's not effective for me personally or for most people, and so kind of working through. How do you?
00:43:40.370 --> 00:43:42.009 Jennifer Wisdom: How do you give advice
00:43:42.170 --> 00:43:58.549 Jennifer Wisdom: about something and help someone work? Someone else work through something that is a weak spot for you. So that was a challenge for me on that one. And I learned a lot in working through writing the chapter and then getting your feedback from the 2 of you on it. I think that was
00:43:58.690 --> 00:44:11.140 Jennifer Wisdom: that was really helpful for me, too, and, like Sarah said, there's some pages here I want to keep pulling out and using when I struggle with different things. Some of the pieces I've done enough so that I know how to do them, and I don't need the additional help.
00:44:11.390 --> 00:44:16.349 Jennifer Wisdom: some of them I still at this point as a Gen. Xer. Some of them I still want
00:44:16.420 --> 00:44:20.778 Jennifer Wisdom: as guidance to help me walk through so that I can get a better
00:44:21.110 --> 00:44:24.470 Jennifer Wisdom: better likelihood of having a really positive outcome.
00:44:25.060 --> 00:44:27.868 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And you know, I I think
00:44:29.430 --> 00:44:39.790 Mira Brancu: with with each of the examples that you shared, a lot of this is just speaking to how to
00:44:41.060 --> 00:44:46.629 Mira Brancu: translate the work into something that personally we could use
00:44:46.720 --> 00:44:48.840 Mira Brancu: like we could picture it ourselves.
00:44:49.090 --> 00:44:52.900 Mira Brancu: and then also help others who
00:44:53.270 --> 00:45:01.679 Mira Brancu: haven't been in our shoes or our experiences also helpfully, like easily digest right? And so
00:45:02.080 --> 00:45:04.509 Mira Brancu: we're reaching another ad break when we come back.
00:45:04.670 --> 00:45:12.540 Mira Brancu: Let's go into some of those like most important decision points, and also just explore, like
00:45:13.070 --> 00:45:33.360 Mira Brancu: our process, just our writing process and what it took to finalize the book. And there are some interesting experiences with that, too. So we're reaching an ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and my co-authors and guests today. Dr. Jennifer, Wisdom and Sarah A. Rose, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:47:38.620 --> 00:47:49.019 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and my co-authors and guests today, Sarah A. Rose and Dr. Jennifer. Wisdom of the Millennials.
00:47:49.090 --> 00:47:54.330 Mira Brancu: Workbook for Navigating Workplace politics. The new book that is out
00:47:54.600 --> 00:48:13.030 Mira Brancu: after publishing the Millennials Guide to Workplace politics as part of Dr. Wisdom's Millennials, Guide to Book series. There's about 13 of them. We chose to add this workbook. She does have another workbook that she'll talk about in a little bit here.
00:48:13.290 --> 00:48:20.279 Mira Brancu: But let's let's sort of like close this out. With a reflection on the process. We talked a lot about the content.
00:48:20.430 --> 00:48:22.663 Mira Brancu: Let's focus on the process.
00:48:24.640 --> 00:48:37.980 Mira Brancu: a workbook sounds easy. It sounds simple. You just, you know, snap your fingers and just like, put it out there. So that's not true. A workbook can be just as hard as writing a book.
00:48:38.030 --> 00:48:40.290 Mira Brancu: and you know some of that is
00:48:40.660 --> 00:49:04.385 Mira Brancu: from my perspective, bringing 3 personalities together, 3 styles of writing, 3 styles of working. That's the same exact thing as what happens on a team. We talk about team dynamics all the time, how you have to get used to and understand other people's way of working. You know, preferences for communication preferences, for you know how fast or slow, or thoughtful, or you know
00:49:04.900 --> 00:49:17.720 Mira Brancu: you know. Quick, they want to get things done. And we all saw that, you know, amongst us in our styles. So I'm curious. What did you 2 learn from just the the process of
00:49:18.263 --> 00:49:22.599 Mira Brancu: you know what it took to get this book published.
00:49:22.650 --> 00:49:28.220 Mira Brancu: And you know, maybe even some places we got stuck that we really needed to work through
00:49:28.250 --> 00:49:29.757 Mira Brancu: the juicy stuff.
00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:34.389 Jennifer Wisdom: Well, I'll start with.
00:49:34.830 --> 00:49:40.730 Jennifer Wisdom: maybe not juicy. But one of the my favorite parts is how absolutely organized Sarah was.
00:49:40.770 --> 00:50:08.279 Jennifer Wisdom: and making sure the next meeting is on the books, making sure there's a clear agenda. We have clear deadlines. We have pieces. Each of us need to do before we move forward, and then we could use the time effectively in the meeting, just like it talks about in the book to discuss places where we might have different perspectives, or where we wanted to work through something. So that was a really wonderful thing that Sarah brought to the, to the process.
00:50:08.990 --> 00:50:10.370 Mira Brancu: Yes, I agree
00:50:10.390 --> 00:50:17.090 Mira Brancu: totally, Jennifer, and also because I hate that stuff. You know, I think she brought that.
00:50:17.100 --> 00:50:20.410 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I can do it. But like I really like
00:50:20.840 --> 00:50:25.316 Mira Brancu: when someone else can do it even better, and let me relax.
00:50:25.690 --> 00:50:28.779 Jennifer Wisdom: Yes, yes, she was great, great.
00:50:29.580 --> 00:50:32.789 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Thank you. I think my challenge
00:50:32.980 --> 00:51:00.259 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): is all very internal. I feel like I didn't do enough of that. I felt like we should have had more standing meetings, especially in the beginning, but I also felt like I should have done a better job with mapping out the book because some of the challenges that we got into later is, we all wrote our own section of chapters, so we divvied up the chapters. We all wrote different chapters.
00:51:00.460 --> 00:51:05.129 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): and I think some of us had. I was kind of
00:51:05.150 --> 00:51:20.060 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): thinking about just coming off of my Dbt program. There's so many different activities. So I had a lot of different activities I could use. It might have been helpful to share different activities that we could use in the book and say, like.
00:51:20.190 --> 00:51:25.220 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): try to incorporate them in the chapters that you're writing, because we all well.
00:51:25.940 --> 00:51:41.689 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): people tended towards a specific thing, whether it be a checklist, a table, etc. And I felt like there was looking at the book as a whole. There was a lot of tables, and so I wanted to diversify the book.
00:51:41.690 --> 00:52:00.870 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): but also like when we ended up coming some of the later chapters the information started to duplicate. And so how? Just thinking of mapping out the book beforehand, so we maybe could have caught that earlier. So those are what I'm thinking about.
00:52:00.870 --> 00:52:07.050 Jennifer Wisdom: Yeah, that's always a challenge. Of how much do you plan in advance versus? How much do you let things
00:52:07.090 --> 00:52:12.369 Jennifer Wisdom: organically emerge? And I think we hit a good
00:52:12.520 --> 00:52:24.289 Jennifer Wisdom: balance. I mean, we can always look back and say, Oh, we could have done this differently or that differently. But I really like how each of us did our own set of chapters, and you could tell our own personality in the chapters we wrote.
00:52:24.410 --> 00:52:48.540 Jennifer Wisdom: And then the challenge was, how do we integrate these? And I think our defaults actually helped us make chapters better because Sarah liked the Venn diagrams. I liked the tables, and so she could add Venn diagrams to my group, some of my chapters where it made sense that would really strengthen them, and maybe some of my tables could strengthen some of the chapters she drafted. So in a way, it was kind of a.
00:52:48.630 --> 00:53:04.119 Jennifer Wisdom: It was a parallel process to navigating workplace politics, because we all brought what we had to the table, and then tried to pick out what's the best of everything the 3 of us brought to the table. And how can we bring that into the workbook.
00:53:04.650 --> 00:53:17.870 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah. And I don't. I don't. I don't think you can avoid some of this sort of backtracking, like I wish we had done this, or we had more time. I think it does sort of.
00:53:18.070 --> 00:53:25.849 Mira Brancu: you know, develop over time. You know how people work together, how
00:53:25.910 --> 00:53:34.999 Mira Brancu: you know where our strengths are, where our weaknesses are, where our preferences are, and all of that stuff, and that took some time to learn, and then to apply to a book.
00:53:35.210 --> 00:53:41.319 Mira Brancu: So. But I think you know what what the message here is.
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:46.669 Mira Brancu: Whatever amount of time you think, it'll take double it.
00:53:47.160 --> 00:53:47.690 Jennifer Wisdom: Really.
00:53:47.690 --> 00:53:58.410 Mira Brancu: Or like 1.5, you know. Because of that piece. If you're gonna you know, work with more than me myself and I, which is in most cases.
00:53:58.520 --> 00:53:59.420 Mira Brancu: Then
00:53:59.850 --> 00:54:09.099 Mira Brancu: you want to have that. Give that time to adjust, to learn, you know, to grow together. So that's my takeaway.
00:54:09.930 --> 00:54:20.529 Mira Brancu: Sarah and Jennifer, what are what is one takeaway that you would like to offer? And if people would like to learn more about you and your strengths and skill sets. Where can they find you?
00:54:23.060 --> 00:54:25.060 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): I'll let Jen go first.st
00:54:25.460 --> 00:54:26.360 Jennifer Wisdom: Was going to offer for you.
00:54:27.600 --> 00:54:47.519 Jennifer Wisdom: Let's see, I'll start with the easy part, jennifer@leadwithwisdom.com. I do a lot of consulting a lot of writing. There's also a millennials workbook on diversity, Equity, and inclusion. So if you see a millennials guide that you like, and you'd like to talk about turning it into a workbook, or writing your own happy to work with you on that.
00:54:47.790 --> 00:55:16.760 Jennifer Wisdom: And then oh, thank you. So those are some of our products right there, and good compliments on these, so very happy to to be involved with folks. One of my big takeaways from this has been, how much of a pleasure it is to co-write and to co-create. I am typically a solo writer, but this really brought me back to very much enjoying writing together.
00:55:19.770 --> 00:55:20.830 Mira Brancu: Thank you. Sarah.
00:55:20.830 --> 00:55:32.690 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Yeah, I am only on Linkedin. I'm not as into the social media universe, especially now, being in Germany. They have a lot of data protection stuff.
00:55:33.220 --> 00:55:41.819 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): So Linkedin Backslash Sarsander, that is where you can find me. What I took away from the book
00:55:41.820 --> 00:56:06.730 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): is that you need your supports and your allies, and we loop back to that so often in the book having your list. I think it's Chapter 8 of supports and allies, different people like different people for different things. So don't use your partner to talk about work and then use your partner to do XYZ. You really need to diversify your supports and allies, and that is literally
00:56:06.730 --> 00:56:11.120 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): what got me through. You know, the last 15 years of my whole life, like
00:56:11.210 --> 00:56:17.570 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): through the book, writing the book I mean. So to get your list, make your list, keep your list.
00:56:17.970 --> 00:56:18.890 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Continue, adding.
00:56:18.890 --> 00:56:36.929 Mira Brancu: I love that insight, Sarah, because we struggled so much with whether to keep referring to creating these, you know allies and support lists, and you just described exactly why it's so important for so many of these chapters. Thank you. All right. Audience, what did you take away?
00:56:37.270 --> 00:56:56.900 Mira Brancu: And, more importantly, what is one small change that you can implement this week, based on what you learned from Sarah and Jennifer share it with us on Linkedin, and also@talkradio.nyc. Not just at Mira Branco or Sarah Rose or Jennifer. Wisdom share it with us, so we can cheer you on
00:56:57.677 --> 00:57:04.539 Mira Brancu: Talkradio. Dot Nyc is also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or X twitch, apple
00:57:04.560 --> 00:57:31.490 Mira Brancu: spotify Amazon podcast, everywhere, help us increase our visibility, reach and impact by leaving a review, go to millennialsguides.com to see all of the options that you can purchase around these millennials guide. They're not just for millennials, people. They are for everybody. It just happens to be within the Millennials Guide Book Series. There's also a diversity, equity, inclusion, one that was turned into a workbook. So look that up.
00:57:32.680 --> 00:57:37.729 Mira Brancu: I am your host, Dr. Mira Bronk, who thank you to Talkradio, dot Nyc.
00:57:38.220 --> 00:57:44.220 Mira Brancu: And thank you for joining us today. Sarah and Jennifer loved having you here with me.
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:45.910 Sarah A. Rose (she/her): Thank you.
00:57:46.340 --> 00:57:52.519 Mira Brancu: Absolutely all right. Everybody have a great rest of your day. Wherever you're tuning in from bye. Everyone.
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