EPISODE SUMMARY:
This week, on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam is pleased to
welcome Professor Emeritus and Author, Chris M. Bache, Ph.D.
Dr. Chris Bache is professor emeritus in the department of
Philosophy and Religious Studies at Youngstown State University
where he taught for 33 years. He is also adjunct faculty at the
California Institute of Integral Studies, Emeritus Fellow at the
Institute of Noetic Sciences, and on the Advisory Board of Grof
Legacy Training.
Chris’ passion has been the study of the philosophical implications
of non-ordinary states of consciousness, especially psychedelic
states.
An award-winning teacher and international speaker, Chris has
written four books: Lifecycles - a study of reincarnation in light of
contemporary consciousness research; Dark Night, Early Dawn -
a pioneering work in psychedelic philosophy; The Living
Classroom - an exploration of collective fields of consciousness in
teaching; and LSD and the Mind of the Universe - the story of his
20-year journey with LSD.
Tune in and share your questions and comments about non-
ordinary states of consciousness on our YouTube livestream or on
our Facebook page.
Courtesy of https://spiritplantmedicine.com/ Use coupon code
TCC2024 for a 35% discount!
chrisbache.com
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Sam reads from one of his blog posts entitled “Entrainment is Key to Embodying a New Way of Being.” Sam speaks about writing this a couple of years ago while working with a friend who's a spiritual teacher. The main topic was entrainment and that we entrain to something or someone all the time. For example, we may say we are not like our parents, but because we may be around them so often, we adapt to their behaviors, mannerisms, etc. Because we are exposed to so much, we are unconscious to what we are entrained to. Looking at how people show up around us is important to how we improve ourselves and change overtime. Sam also introduces his guest, Professor Emeritus and Author, Chris M. Bache, Ph.D. Chris says that from a young age, he says he's always wanted to be a priest. Growing up in a christian household, his aspirations changed over time. His profession is in philosophy in religion. People contributing in the long run, he says, would be writing from experiences not only from an intellectual basis. To do that, one would have to undergo a systematic regimen of therapeutic psychedelic work.
Dr. Bache mentioned being inspired by the works of people like Stanislav Grof. He read his books and tried LSD, deciding to try a high dose in a controlled setting. At the time, Chris finished earning his PHD and always had a desire to understand how the universe works. To explain nonordinary states of consciousness, Chris says is a state of uncnous where one moves beyond the ordinary. Meditation, recovery of former life memories, and psychedelic states are some examples. Working with high doses of LSD is something that Dr. Bache does not recommend it. This work is a deep question in probing, metaphysical anxiety, and more; working on the personal psyche., With what he knows now, he wouldn't have done it the way he did. In his 9th or 10th session, he mentions how “the universe just snapped me like a twig.” He recommends a spiritual regimen, a daily practice to stabilize and manage the experiences; learning to stabilize yourself and stay conscious in states you've never encountered before is important.
00:00:26.040 --> 00:00:55.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon. Good morning. Good evening. Wherever you're tuning in from welcome to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. I'm very, very pleased that you're all here with me today. We've got an amazing guest in store for you today who I want to get to as quick as possible. So let's get started, of course, with my blog post from a couple of years ago, and this one is entitled
00:00:56.240 --> 00:01:01.249 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Entrainment is key to embodying a new way of being.
00:01:01.910 --> 00:01:05.239 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There are times when we look to improve ourselves.
00:01:05.260 --> 00:01:07.339 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to do better at something.
00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:10.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or to just feel better about our life.
00:01:10.690 --> 00:01:13.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We can face many challenges to get there
00:01:14.060 --> 00:01:17.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: often we just don't know how to do it.
00:01:17.590 --> 00:01:21.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: how to change our behavior, to make new decisions.
00:01:21.780 --> 00:01:26.159 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We may find ourselves in unknown or unfamiliar territory.
00:01:26.210 --> 00:01:30.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: not quite sure which way to turn or what to do.
00:01:30.220 --> 00:01:34.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is unsettling to be there, so we look for a map
00:01:35.330 --> 00:01:38.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or a guide who can show us the way.
00:01:38.250 --> 00:01:41.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: perhaps a coach or a therapist.
00:01:41.160 --> 00:01:44.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or even a facilitator of some kind.
00:01:44.520 --> 00:01:49.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: because we need a direction or guidance to find our way.
00:01:50.290 --> 00:01:57.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: One tool that can help us is to find someone who has already done what we seek to do.
00:01:58.850 --> 00:02:01.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: A person who is just a few steps
00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:04.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or many ahead of us.
00:02:04.630 --> 00:02:08.109 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They may have already embodied a new way of being.
00:02:08.410 --> 00:02:12.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and can stand as an example for us to follow.
00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:25.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It takes 2 oops lost my train of thought. Yet what we really need to do is to entrain to their energy.
00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:29.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to align with the feeling they emit.
00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:33.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: While this may sound easy, it is far from it.
00:02:33.870 --> 00:02:41.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for it takes focus, energy, and attention to break the habit of being ourselves
00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:43.999 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and embody a new way of being
00:02:44.650 --> 00:02:47.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to allow ourselves to be molded
00:02:47.890 --> 00:02:49.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: into a new you.
00:02:50.290 --> 00:02:55.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Entrainment happens on a cellular or nervous system level
00:02:55.830 --> 00:02:58.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: not in our conscious mind.
00:02:58.640 --> 00:02:59.880 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for it is a
00:03:00.480 --> 00:03:04.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or it is a much more subtle process.
00:03:04.920 --> 00:03:09.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Certain exercises or practices can help and support the change.
00:03:10.340 --> 00:03:18.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet, in order to fully align to the new way of being. We have to shift on a very fundamental level.
00:03:19.250 --> 00:03:23.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sometimes we don't have someone to directly work with.
00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:29.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So we need to find a character, an archetype, or a role model of some kind.
00:03:30.150 --> 00:03:37.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: regardless of who it is to have that example of how to embody a new way of being is essential
00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:43.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: if we don't have one at a at the moment we keep looking until we find them.
00:03:44.890 --> 00:03:49.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and they may turn up in the most unexpected of places
00:03:49.870 --> 00:03:51.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: being open
00:03:51.780 --> 00:03:55.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and aware, is key to this process.
00:03:55.290 --> 00:03:58.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For once we have our model to follow.
00:03:58.780 --> 00:04:01.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and we have embodied their example.
00:04:02.060 --> 00:04:05.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We can now grow beyond it.
00:04:06.570 --> 00:04:10.779 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and soon we will. We will be in training others.
00:04:10.970 --> 00:04:13.759 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so the cycle continues.
00:04:14.450 --> 00:04:18.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Do you have someone to model in a train and train to.
00:04:19.450 --> 00:04:22.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So I wrote this a couple of years ago.
00:04:22.960 --> 00:04:27.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: while I was working with a friend of mine who's a spiritual teacher.
00:04:27.880 --> 00:04:28.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and
00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:31.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: she talked about entrainment.
00:04:33.140 --> 00:04:40.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and we had this whole big discussion around this, and and it kind of brought up to me this whole idea of
00:04:42.960 --> 00:04:44.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that that.
00:04:44.990 --> 00:04:48.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We all entrain to something or someone
00:04:48.950 --> 00:05:02.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we entrain to our parents as children, we entrain to our friends. As we're growing up, we entrain to bosses and coaches and and facilitators and people in our lives.
00:05:03.220 --> 00:05:08.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And usually we do it on a very unconscious level. We're not even aware we're doing it.
00:05:09.210 --> 00:05:16.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And this is kind of why, like as children, we always think I'm never gonna be anything like my parents when I grow up.
00:05:16.730 --> 00:05:23.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then the older we get the more. We're exactly like our parents, because we've been trained to them at an early age.
00:05:24.650 --> 00:05:26.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But to kind of
00:05:26.860 --> 00:05:32.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to grow, to change, to become something more than what we're used to being.
00:05:35.220 --> 00:05:39.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We can entrain to to someone else who's
00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:41.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: being a different way.
00:05:43.440 --> 00:05:49.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And oftentimes somebody who we look up to a mentor, a coach, an advisor.
00:05:49.950 --> 00:05:51.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a facilitator.
00:05:52.570 --> 00:05:55.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We look at, how do they show up?
00:05:56.670 --> 00:05:59.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Who are they being when they're
00:05:59.520 --> 00:06:02.589 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: in the room with us?
00:06:04.580 --> 00:06:13.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And if it feels right to our body, and we feel safe with them, and our nervous system can relax enough
00:06:13.830 --> 00:06:18.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to allow us to take in this information of how they are being.
00:06:18.650 --> 00:06:22.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We can then adapt that to ourselves.
00:06:23.220 --> 00:06:32.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and we're never going to be exactly like someone else. We're never going to, you know, have the exact same mannerisms and and do things the exact same way.
00:06:33.380 --> 00:06:36.880 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But there's an energy to how people show up.
00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:42.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There's an energy to to those habits, those those
00:06:43.010 --> 00:06:46.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I don't know what I'd call them, the the habits, the
00:06:46.870 --> 00:06:49.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to to the actions they take.
00:06:50.550 --> 00:06:53.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and it's that energy we connect with.
00:06:53.610 --> 00:06:59.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and it's that energy that we are learning to adapt ourselves.
00:07:01.580 --> 00:07:02.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so
00:07:02.940 --> 00:07:05.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: when we do it consciously.
00:07:05.650 --> 00:07:07.719 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: when we say to ourselves.
00:07:07.780 --> 00:07:23.439 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, I really love the way this person, you know, talks in front of an audience, or the way that they, you know, work with clients or the way they work with people who are coming to them for healing sessions.
00:07:25.300 --> 00:07:32.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then we consciously feel into their energy and feel into the way they're being in life.
00:07:34.220 --> 00:07:43.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And we remember that feeling and cultivate that feeling within ourselves, we can entrain to it, we can adapt it as our own.
00:07:44.380 --> 00:07:48.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then, before we know it, we're not only have we
00:07:49.250 --> 00:07:53.139 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: sort of taken on those skills in a way.
00:07:53.610 --> 00:07:55.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: but we've surpassed them
00:07:57.140 --> 00:08:03.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: because we've made them their own. It combines with who we are already as individuals.
00:08:04.070 --> 00:08:07.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and it creates something new, something different.
00:08:08.750 --> 00:08:11.449 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: maybe better. Maybe not. Who knows?
00:08:13.340 --> 00:08:17.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But it's about being conscious about what we're in training to.
00:08:18.520 --> 00:08:22.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so often in life we're exposed to so much.
00:08:22.540 --> 00:08:25.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We're very unconscious about what we entrained to.
00:08:27.070 --> 00:08:38.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This is why, you know, people end up. You know, kids in inner cities can end up in gangs so easily. They they entrain to the other gang members unconsciously.
00:08:38.299 --> 00:08:41.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and before they know it they're they're in it too deep to get out.
00:08:44.310 --> 00:08:49.839 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or maybe a member of a sports team and trains to their fellow teammates.
00:08:51.470 --> 00:09:01.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There's so many different ways this can happen. And and if we don't actually have a physical person that we feel like, oh, I really want to entrain the way they are.
00:09:02.550 --> 00:09:15.709 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Maybe there's a historical figure. Maybe there's a a myth, a legend, an archetype, something that has a very strong power to it
00:09:15.900 --> 00:09:25.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that we can just feel it, and we get it because we've read about it, and we've seen it in movies, and we've, you know, experienced it.
00:09:25.730 --> 00:09:29.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that even that archetype we can entrain to.
00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:39.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So it's not the kind of thing that you know just happens overnight. It takes time.
00:09:40.670 --> 00:09:42.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and the more
00:09:42.670 --> 00:09:47.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we're aware of what it is we're doing, the more we do it intentionally.
00:09:49.010 --> 00:09:52.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the faster we can adapt this new energy.
00:09:53.140 --> 00:09:57.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and the more embodied we are in our physical self.
00:09:58.770 --> 00:10:06.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the more we can tap into that energy and really feel it and cultivate that feeling within ourselves.
00:10:06.810 --> 00:10:07.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So
00:10:08.220 --> 00:10:12.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: my invitation for this week, should you choose to accept it.
00:10:13.030 --> 00:10:19.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is to think about what aspect would you like to grow or change about yourself.
00:10:19.660 --> 00:10:27.409 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then who do you see out there as a model, either personally in your life, or or just someone you know of
00:10:28.100 --> 00:10:32.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: who you feel their energy around that particular aspect
00:10:32.830 --> 00:10:36.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is the kind of energy you want to cultivate within yourself
00:10:37.170 --> 00:10:43.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and tap into that. Feel that energy. Cultivate that within yourself
00:10:43.810 --> 00:10:59.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and see what happens. And I would love to know if you know next week's show. If you tune in, let me know how that exercise goes for you, I'd be curious to see. Do you actually have some success in that, even in some small, tiny way.
00:11:00.090 --> 00:11:07.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So that's my blog post for this week. It's entitled Entrainment is Key to embodying a new way of being.
00:11:07.130 --> 00:11:18.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You can always find my blog on talkradio dot nyc slash blog. And of course, on my personal branded website, theconsciousconsultant.com.
00:11:19.150 --> 00:11:25.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And now it is my extreme pleasure to welcome to the show Professor emeritus and author.
00:11:25.650 --> 00:11:42.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Christopher M. Baish, Phd. Dr. Christopher Bache, is Professor Emeritus in the department of Philosophy and religious studies at Youngstown State University, where he taught for 33 years. He's also adjunct faculty at the California Institute of Integral Studies
00:11:42.800 --> 00:11:50.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Emeritus Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and on the Advisory Board of Graf legacy training.
00:11:50.610 --> 00:12:00.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Chris's passion has been the study of the philosophical implications of non-ordinary states of consciousness, especially psychedelic ones.
00:12:00.610 --> 00:12:05.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: An award-winning teacher and international speaker. Chris has written 4 books.
00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:11.229 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: life cycles, a study of reincarnation in the light of contemporary consciousness, research.
00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:28.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: dark night, early dawn, a pioneering work in psychedelic philosophy, the living classroom and exploration of collective fields of Consciousness and in Teachings, and his most recent book, Lsd. And The Mind of the Universe. The story of his 20 year journey with Lsd.
00:12:28.710 --> 00:12:31.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Which we're going to get into in this show.
00:12:31.280 --> 00:12:34.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Welcome to the conscious consultant hour, Dr. Beach.
00:12:35.090 --> 00:12:37.590 Chris Bache: Thank you, Sam. It's a pleasure to be here with you.
00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:49.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's wonderful. I've been so so, looking forward to this, I'm I'm really glad it's already here. So a a quick question just to start off to give our audience a little background.
00:12:49.430 --> 00:13:02.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Did you always have sort of this philosophical spiritual leaning in your life when you were younger? Or was it something that kind of came to you more as an adult? And and because of certain experiences.
00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:08.310 Chris Bache: No, I think it was always there. From when I was very young
00:13:08.500 --> 00:13:14.879 Chris Bache: I wanted to be a priest. I don't remember wanting to be anything other than that I was raised in a Catholic tradition.
00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:27.700 Chris Bache: and that was how spirituality expressed itself in my world. And then, later, it continued to change and evolve as I did, but that seems to have been in place right from the very beginning.
00:13:27.700 --> 00:13:38.969 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, interesting, interesting! And when this did this interest in in psychedelics and exploring non, ordinary states of consciousness.
00:13:39.030 --> 00:13:42.549 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: kind of start to make itself present in your life.
00:13:42.890 --> 00:13:52.470 Chris Bache: Well, it wasn't in college. It wasn't in graduate school. It was after I had finished my graduate work at Brown University. And this is 1978,
00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:58.490 Chris Bache: when I finished in in philosophy of religion, and I finished graduate school kind of ironically
00:13:58.610 --> 00:14:03.240 Chris Bache: as an atheistically inclined agnostic.
00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:03.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The.
00:14:03.710 --> 00:14:16.259 Chris Bache: And it was at that point that I met the work of 2 people who really changed my life. The 1st one was Ian Stevenson and his research on children who have spontaneous Memories of a previous life.
00:14:16.510 --> 00:14:31.559 Chris Bache: and, more importantly, even, was Stanislav Groff. He had just published his 1st book, realms of human unconscious. And in one reading I felt like I found my life's calling, and I just I knew I wanted to do this. I knew that people
00:14:31.740 --> 00:14:35.659 Chris Bache: working in my profession, which was philosophy of religion.
00:14:36.460 --> 00:14:45.599 Chris Bache: who would be making the largest contributions in the near future, would be people writing out of an experiential basis, not simply an intellectual basis.
00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:46.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:14:46.170 --> 00:14:53.810 Chris Bache: And to do that you had to not only have a few experiences, but you had to undergo a systematic regimen
00:14:53.840 --> 00:15:00.170 Chris Bache: of therapeutically oriented psychedelic work, according to the protocols that Stan outlines.
00:15:00.560 --> 00:15:01.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: In Israel.
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:05.059 Chris Bache: Writings, particularly his book, Lsd. Psychotherapy.
00:15:05.220 --> 00:15:05.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:15:05.540 --> 00:15:08.150 Chris Bache: Outlines, a low dose protocol.
00:15:08.160 --> 00:15:20.220 Chris Bache: and a high dose protocol very different. Most of the work being done today, which is therapeutically oriented, would be kind of equivalent to a low dose protocol.
00:15:20.220 --> 00:15:20.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:30.470 Chris Bache: For a variety of reasons. I ended up after 3 sessions, choosing to work in a high dose protocol. So between when I was 30
00:15:30.610 --> 00:15:46.330 Chris Bache: and 50 years old. Between 1979 and 1999, I ended up doing 73 high dose Lsd sessions in a tightly controlled therapeutic modality, you know, traditional, completely isolated from the world
00:15:46.480 --> 00:16:01.149 Chris Bache: at home or in my wife's professional office, lying down, eye shades carefully calibrated, music to pace the opening and closing of a session, so that you would know that whatever you were facing
00:16:01.250 --> 00:16:03.020 Chris Bache: was coming from within.
00:16:03.460 --> 00:16:03.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:16:03.900 --> 00:16:06.370 Chris Bache: So that that's how I got into it.
00:16:06.370 --> 00:16:32.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow! Wow! Yes, Stanislav Groff. I had the the wonderful pleasure of meeting him at last year's Psychedelic Sciences Conference in Denver, and just briefly, being able to say hello to him, and he's such a pioneer, and his work has been so impactful in so many lives. I can. I can understand how how, finding his work at such a early stage could really have an impact on your life.
00:16:32.190 --> 00:16:32.580 Chris Bache: Yeah.
00:16:32.650 --> 00:16:42.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We're gonna take a quick break. And when we come back I just want to define for our audience what do we mean when we say, non ordinary states of consciousness.
00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:48.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then I really want to dive into the 73 high dose sessions of Lsd, you did, because
00:16:48.880 --> 00:17:01.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that ain't normal. Most people would not choose to do that. So I really want to get into why you did that, how you did that, and and what sort of revealed itself to you from doing that. Okay.
00:17:01.730 --> 00:17:22.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: wonderful. So everyone. Please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We do this every Thursday, 12 noon to one Pm. Eastern time. Right here on Talkradio, dot, Nyc. And all over social media and all over the Podcasting platforms. And we will be right back with our guest, Dr. Christopher Bates. In just a moment.
00:19:39.230 --> 00:19:44.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity.
00:19:44.540 --> 00:20:00.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So Dr. Bash. What you read, Groff Stanislav Groff's book you tried? Lsd, you decided you wanted to go into the sort of a high dose, very therapeutic, very controlled settings.
00:20:00.500 --> 00:20:08.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What was it about your initial experiences that made you want to really dive deeper into this.
00:20:09.840 --> 00:20:17.779 Chris Bache: Well, I had just finished a graduate, you know, my Phd. In religious studies, so I had a good, solid grasp of
00:20:17.830 --> 00:20:28.630 Chris Bache: theological traditions, Western philosophical traditions. I then progressively got into the study of Eastern traditions, eastern spirituality.
00:20:28.650 --> 00:20:34.630 Chris Bache: Well, I've always had a passionate desire to understand how the universe works.
00:20:34.790 --> 00:20:40.800 Chris Bache: Why are things the way they are? Is there an intelligence inherent in the universe?
00:20:40.810 --> 00:20:45.650 Chris Bache: Where, if there is, where is this intelligence going? Where is it taking us.
00:20:46.090 --> 00:20:54.510 Chris Bache: So that that was my passion. I had studied philosophy and religious studies to address these questions, to explore them.
00:20:54.730 --> 00:20:59.730 Chris Bache: and what I saw in Stan Groff's work was a methodology
00:20:59.780 --> 00:21:06.160 Chris Bache: that allowed us to explore these questions through entering very deep states of consciousness
00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:17.020 Chris Bache: that traditionally are the domain of very advanced meditators or natural mystics. And here was a technology that would allow an ordinary layman.
00:21:17.130 --> 00:21:27.559 Chris Bache: if they use the processes responsibly and conscientiously to systematically engage the deep psyche.
00:21:27.560 --> 00:21:28.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To.
00:21:28.180 --> 00:21:39.409 Chris Bache: Engage the shadow to clear the material there, and to progressively go deeper and deeper into the deep structure of consciousness.
00:21:39.670 --> 00:21:42.100 Chris Bache: past personal Psyche.
00:21:42.530 --> 00:21:51.999 Chris Bache: collective psyche eventually pass the collective Psyche into the dimensions that lie beyond dimensions of consciousness, so vast.
00:21:52.490 --> 00:21:52.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: With.
00:21:52.690 --> 00:21:54.909 Chris Bache: Call it, into the Divine mind.
00:21:55.440 --> 00:22:06.569 Chris Bache: I. Because divinity is such an overly taxed word in our theologies, with many ambivalent associations, I call it the mind of the universe.
00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:15.770 Chris Bache: It's the consciousness that is the creative intention, the creative mind within and underneath our beautiful universe.
00:22:15.770 --> 00:22:17.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm, wow, wow!
00:22:18.145 --> 00:22:22.409 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's it's so interesting because you're approaching things from just a very
00:22:24.053 --> 00:22:26.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: deep philosophical
00:22:26.520 --> 00:22:32.449 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: sense of inquiry, like really being a true pioneer of consciousness.
00:22:33.114 --> 00:22:43.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we talk about this stuff, the term non ordinary states of consciousness is used a lot. What do we really mean by non ordinary states of consciousness.
00:22:44.350 --> 00:22:59.879 Chris Bache: Well, ordinary states of consciousness or the states of consciousness that you and I are in now. It's very finely attuned to sensory reality. So an ordinary state of consciousness is basically a sensate or sensory state of consciousness.
00:22:59.900 --> 00:23:17.570 Chris Bache: A non ordinary state of consciousness is a state of consciousness in which you move beyond the ordinary sensate world. So this might be in meditation, it might be in hypnotic regression. Work, it might be, in recovering former life memories or near death, episodes would be.
00:23:17.570 --> 00:23:18.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: An example.
00:23:18.710 --> 00:23:23.210 Chris Bache: And psychedelic states would be examples.
00:23:23.210 --> 00:23:32.239 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Gotcha gotcha good. I just I just I always like to define terms, because sometimes we throw these terms around and we think we know what we're talking about. But sometimes
00:23:32.260 --> 00:23:35.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we're not very clear. So
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:37.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: when you
00:23:38.370 --> 00:23:45.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: dove in to these different levels of consciousness, like as you talked about like. First, st there's the very personal level.
00:23:46.060 --> 00:23:53.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and our traumas and and our shadow sort of lives there. How long did it take you to sort of
00:23:53.510 --> 00:24:01.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: sift through, heal, and get past that personal level into a deeper sense of the collective, unconscious.
00:24:02.750 --> 00:24:04.609 Chris Bache: Well again. I want to. Re.
00:24:04.790 --> 00:24:09.669 Chris Bache: I want to emphasize that I was working with very high doses of Lsd.
00:24:09.710 --> 00:24:35.250 Chris Bache: If I were working with lower doses of Lsd more like 50 to 100 125, it would appealed more gradually like an onion. But when you work with very high doses of Lsd. Is a tendency to push you to the extremes much faster. I worked consistently at 500 to 600 micrograms, which is the body's maximum absorption, capacity.
00:24:35.280 --> 00:24:42.120 Chris Bache: And this is a protocol I I do not recommend. I honestly, sincerely do not recommend this protocol.
00:24:42.721 --> 00:24:46.440 Chris Bache: It just now that I know what I know now.
00:24:46.910 --> 00:25:00.270 Chris Bache: The end of the journey. I wouldn't do it the same way. If I did it again I would be gentle on myself. I'd work with Lord doses, but basically working the way I did. It took me 10 sessions in 2 years
00:25:00.270 --> 00:25:19.439 Chris Bache: to work through what Stan calls the perinatal level of consciousness which is working at the very kind of foundational level of the personal psyche at the basement of the personal psyche and the interface of personal going into transpersonal consciousness. Usually this work involves
00:25:19.610 --> 00:25:43.739 Chris Bache: a lot of deep metaphysical anxiety, deep questioning, probing, purging, a lot of emotional tension, psychological tension, eventually culminating in an ego, death experience, or an experience in which your historical identity is basically just shattered.
00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:44.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Awesome.
00:25:44.470 --> 00:25:47.250 Chris Bache: Melted, but mine was just shattered. It turns out.
00:25:47.250 --> 00:25:47.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:25:47.740 --> 00:25:59.410 Chris Bache: The ego is not that hard? I mean, it's beautiful, it's so complex. It's magnificent. But it's not so hard to break in my 19, th and 10th Sessions. The universe just snapped like a twig.
00:25:59.740 --> 00:26:01.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow! Wow!
00:26:02.465 --> 00:26:07.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So you had been working with it about 2 years by that point.
00:26:08.790 --> 00:26:15.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: did you have a a regimen or a protocol for what you did in between the sessions, to help you
00:26:15.630 --> 00:26:19.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to ground and and be prepared for the next one.
00:26:19.600 --> 00:26:39.880 Chris Bache: I did, and I feel this very strongly. If you're going to enter temporary deep states of consciousness, it's very important to have a spiritual regimen that you're doing every day, because you, when you open yourself up to such vast territories and huge energies in these states of consciousness.
00:26:39.900 --> 00:27:02.860 Chris Bache: it's really important to have a daily practice that you can come back to again and again to stabilize and help you manage and integrate the experiences and simply the energetic states that you're moving into. So I had been a meditator all the way through college and graduate school over time. What type of meditation I was doing changed, but it was always there.
00:27:03.500 --> 00:27:14.599 Chris Bache: In time I integrated Yoga into my practice, and and partly I was teaching religious studies, you know, for a living. I was kind of talking about these things
00:27:15.205 --> 00:27:19.750 Chris Bache: doing what the Hindu tradition might call yana yoga.
00:27:19.750 --> 00:27:20.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:27:20.140 --> 00:27:22.870 Chris Bache: Yoga of intellectual exercises. Yeah.
00:27:22.870 --> 00:27:32.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm! Wonderful, wonderful and as you started working your way through this after a couple of years, did you notice
00:27:33.370 --> 00:27:45.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: things shifting in your life that surprised you like like were there? Sort of ancillary, you know, benefits or ancillary consequences of you doing this that surprised you.
00:27:46.690 --> 00:27:53.530 Chris Bache: Yes, and eventually I wrote a book on one of the major ones. But let me just back up just one second. Sure
00:27:53.710 --> 00:28:13.719 Chris Bache: people who work with psychedelics. Seriously, I divide it sort of into 3 projects. One project is therapeutic healing absolutely important. This is the dominant movement of the psychedelic Renaissance today. So we're getting psychedelics back into public discussion.
00:28:13.790 --> 00:28:23.490 Chris Bache: The second area is spiritual awakening to awaken to that essential dimension of our own nature, to enter into conscious rapport
00:28:23.590 --> 00:28:26.950 Chris Bache: with the creative intelligence of all life.
00:28:27.590 --> 00:28:42.210 Chris Bache: Both of these are really important. Both of these are addressed in various aspects of the literature, and what I found was my work. Eventually I began to understand, was doing something different.
00:28:42.210 --> 00:28:42.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: 1st time.
00:28:42.590 --> 00:28:46.950 Chris Bache: Thought. It was simply an exercise primarily focused on spiritual awakening.
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:47.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: An event.
00:28:47.630 --> 00:28:50.740 Chris Bache: Eventually it went so deep and became so wide
00:28:50.750 --> 00:28:56.449 Chris Bache: it became an exercise in what I came to think of as cosmological exploration.
00:28:57.080 --> 00:29:00.729 Chris Bache: The deep structure of cosmic reality. Okay.
00:29:00.730 --> 00:29:01.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:29:01.280 --> 00:29:02.175 Chris Bache: So.
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:14.520 Chris Bache: What happened in this process is that I began to break through one level of reality after ego death, for example, into the collective psyche.
00:29:14.570 --> 00:29:19.100 Chris Bache: and it takes a while to acclimate to each level new level you.
00:29:19.130 --> 00:29:25.039 Chris Bache: your mind has to adjust to the conceptual parameters of that level to how the physics of that level are.
00:29:25.040 --> 00:29:25.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To, the.
00:29:25.510 --> 00:29:37.219 Chris Bache: Energetics of that level. You have to learn literally how to stabilize yourself in states of consciousness that you've never encountered before. So, for example, when
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:43.690 Chris Bache: when I went through ego death, I began to enter systematically what I came to call deep time.
00:29:43.820 --> 00:30:04.969 Chris Bache: Deep time is not eternity, but it's entering into different spans of time, which can be simultaneously present or unfold under a much larger kind of movement of time. So it takes time to learn how to stay conscious in something like this, but if you keep at it.
00:30:05.210 --> 00:30:23.119 Chris Bache: you learn you're taught, and then eventually you come up against the limit of that level, and you go through yet another cycle of death and rebirth, and are propelled into yet another level of consciousness, and the whole process repeats itself. Different physics.
00:30:23.120 --> 00:30:23.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's different.
00:30:23.690 --> 00:30:32.259 Chris Bache: Rules different reality, and you have to learn how that reality works and operates. And if you keep pushing
00:30:32.350 --> 00:31:01.889 Chris Bache: sooner or later, you're going to go into yet another level, and when I got to the end of my journey and was kind of you know I took 20 years to digest this 20 year journey I took 20 years before publishing Lsd. In the mind of the Universe, and when I was trying to organize the overview, I distinguished 5 basic categories of experience. So one category was the personal mind.
00:31:02.890 --> 00:31:09.640 Chris Bache: Second is the collective mind, our species, mind, 3rd is archetypal mind.
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:10.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:31:10.260 --> 00:31:17.820 Chris Bache: 4th is causal mind, or the mind of oneness, and the 5th is what I call diamond luminosity.
00:31:17.830 --> 00:31:20.696 Chris Bache: So this broad umbrella categories
00:31:21.350 --> 00:31:27.300 Chris Bache: for describing where the journey went, and that is the most challenging part of even trying.
00:31:27.300 --> 00:31:27.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To tell.
00:31:27.780 --> 00:31:44.929 Chris Bache: The story, because many of our expectations have been influenced by very early important books on psychedelics which are based upon a much smaller data set. So, for example, Aldous Huxley.
00:31:44.930 --> 00:31:45.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:51.040 Chris Bache: The doors of perception in 1954 he had only had one mesculine experience.
00:31:51.070 --> 00:32:05.169 Chris Bache: Later Houston Smith, when he wrote his collection of essays, life collection of essays on psychedelics. He had only taken cleansing the doors of perception. He had taken psychedelics only 6 times.
00:32:05.170 --> 00:32:06.282 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Up to that point.
00:32:06.560 --> 00:32:28.639 Chris Bache: And then we have Michael Pollan, who's very important, valuable book on how to change your mind. Michael had only taken psychedelics about a handful of times right that, combined with the personal healing orientation of the contemporary movement. I think, while it's perfectly
00:32:28.820 --> 00:32:34.799 Chris Bache: understandable and perfectly legitimate, tends to shrink our metaphysical horizons.
00:32:34.800 --> 00:32:35.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And they can.
00:32:35.330 --> 00:32:43.640 Chris Bache: It is to underestimate the depths to which one can systematically explore. If one works in a rigorous way.
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:47.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and this is why I really wanted to have you on the show, because
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:54.409 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I've seen like psychedelics as a healing modality is good for
00:32:54.750 --> 00:32:56.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: certain things.
00:32:56.730 --> 00:33:10.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But there's this whole aspect of it as a venue for spiritual development, exploration, and ontological exploration of what the universe really is about.
00:33:10.490 --> 00:33:17.399 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's largely ignored in the public discourse around psychedelics, because everything is focused to just about
00:33:17.410 --> 00:33:30.039 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the healing aspect work of it. Because that's the path towards legalization. And once we get it legalized, well, then, we can talk about a whole bunch of other stuff. I have to take my next break when we come back.
00:33:30.090 --> 00:33:49.919 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I want to go back to the original question I asked you at the beginning, which was what sort of shifted and changed in your life that maybe surprised you, or was unexpected, like, what kind of phenomena maybe happened because of this exploration? Because while it's good to dive deep into really
00:33:49.950 --> 00:34:08.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: seeing what's the nature of reality. Well, let's come back to this reality. And it's like, well, how does this affect how we live? Okay, yeah, wonderful. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consult now awakening humanity, and we'll be right back with our guest, Dr. Christopher Beach, in just a moment.
00:36:13.220 --> 00:36:15.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Dr. Bates, you, you've
00:36:15.650 --> 00:36:22.299 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: really explored some very steep states of consciousness that are usually reserved for
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:28.799 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know, Buddhist monks who've been meditating a lifetime, or, or, as you mentioned, mystics?
00:36:31.230 --> 00:36:38.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you've explored it, shall we say, with an artificial push, in a way right with with the aid of of psychedelic medicine.
00:36:39.560 --> 00:36:46.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So while you were going through this, and you were touching these very deep states of consciousness.
00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:53.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: were things shifting and changing in your life that surprised you was phenomena happening, that
00:36:53.360 --> 00:37:01.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: most people would would shock them, that just it, it just unraveled in front of you because of the work you were doing.
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:08.649 Chris Bache: Yeah. And the easiest way to point to Annette this, what your point asking about
00:37:09.030 --> 00:37:33.269 Chris Bache: is to point to what was happening on my university campus because Lsd. Is and was illegal. I never talked about this work to my students. I kind of divided my life. I was a university professor during the day and on some weekends. I was a psychonaut doing my own personal private psychedelic exploration.
00:37:33.430 --> 00:37:42.630 Chris Bache: and I just kept. I built a firewall between the psychedelic side of my life and my the professional side of my life.
00:37:42.700 --> 00:37:47.269 Chris Bache: But over time I began to realize that
00:37:47.360 --> 00:38:07.380 Chris Bache: my students were being activated by my sessions. When I would go through a major breakthrough, I began to recognize that some of my students were going through kind of parallel kinds of breakthrough in their life, though they had no understanding of the relationship that I that I was aware of.
00:38:07.470 --> 00:38:15.119 Chris Bache: until eventually things began to happen like I would just be lecturing in a World religions course.
00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:24.140 Chris Bache: and I would, in order to make a point I was making, I would think, of an example, and I would choose an example out of the clear blue.
00:38:24.210 --> 00:38:39.850 Chris Bache: and students started to come up to me after class and say things like, you know, it's funny you use that example that you did today, because that's exactly what happened to me this week, or that's exactly what happened to my mom. And at 1st I just kind of dismissed.
00:38:39.850 --> 00:38:40.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This is.
00:38:40.370 --> 00:38:52.030 Chris Bache: Coincidence, but it kept happening, and it kept happening, and it happened so frequently that I began to have to pay attention to it, and I found that as my
00:38:52.340 --> 00:38:55.930 Chris Bache: personal spiritual journey went deeper and deeper.
00:38:56.360 --> 00:39:07.459 Chris Bache: these synchronicities of transparency not only happened more often, but they began to touch deeper and deeper levels of my students, lives.
00:39:07.460 --> 00:39:07.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:39:07.890 --> 00:39:11.230 Chris Bache: Was as if some, their soul was slipping messages to me.
00:39:11.720 --> 00:39:19.550 Chris Bache: telling me where they were hiding, where they were hurting. And so my students were being. It was like there was a
00:39:19.710 --> 00:39:27.719 Chris Bache: a permeable membrane that had opened up between my mind and my students, mind, and without even intending it.
00:39:28.200 --> 00:39:44.929 Chris Bache: bits and pieces of information were coming into my thought stream from my students lives. And this became such a striking part of my teaching that I eventually realized I had to understand what was happening. I had to.
00:39:44.930 --> 00:39:45.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So.
00:39:45.520 --> 00:40:05.169 Chris Bache: I had to decide how to protect my students, or did I need to protect them? Or how could I harness this energy more effectively, until eventually I developed an entire new approach to teaching. You might think of it as instead of conventional teaching takes place within an atomistic Newtonian metaphysics.
00:40:05.190 --> 00:40:13.969 Chris Bache: I developed a form of teaching that re that takes into account quantum pedagogy. It's what you might think of as a quantum pedagogy.
00:40:14.590 --> 00:40:25.500 Chris Bache: taking seriously the impact of intentionality. And it wasn't just that there was an energetic resonance or cognitive resonance between my life and my students lives.
00:40:25.510 --> 00:40:34.890 Chris Bache: I also found I began to understand that there were fields, psychological fields being generated by my around my courses.
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:43.900 Chris Bache: and that these fields were growing stronger over time, and they were influencing the quality and the speed of learning taking place inside.
00:40:43.900 --> 00:40:44.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Subsequently.
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:53.579 Chris Bache: Semesters. So students, learning in previous years were actually influencing the learning of students in subsequent years.
00:40:53.680 --> 00:40:56.970 Chris Bache: It's like Rupert Sheldrake's, more for genetic fields.
00:40:56.970 --> 00:40:57.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:40:57.970 --> 00:41:00.749 Chris Bache: Eventually I wrote a book called The Living Class.
00:41:00.750 --> 00:41:01.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Classroom.
00:41:01.500 --> 00:41:09.119 Chris Bache: Which is about collective fields of consciousness in the classroom, and I wrote this book and published it in 2,008,
00:41:09.150 --> 00:41:15.790 Chris Bache: and I didn't talk about psychedelics at all, even though I was done with my psychedelic work because psychedelics were not
00:41:15.860 --> 00:41:23.989 Chris Bache: the acceptable talk of conversation then. And I wrote this book for educators, and I didn't want psychedelics to get in the way.
00:41:24.040 --> 00:41:50.469 Chris Bache: But now, after Lsd. In the Mind of the Universe came out, and I'm kind of out of the psychedelic closet. Suny Press is bringing out a new edition, a second edition of the living classroom, and this time they invited me to let psychedelics be part of the story. So now, starting in this book in December, I'm telling the story of how psychedelics manifested this kind of
00:41:50.940 --> 00:42:06.710 Chris Bache: synchronistic resonances with my students, and what it taught me, what my experiences were teaching me about group fields and the dynamics of group fields in groups, not just in educational settings.
00:42:06.710 --> 00:42:07.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But these are.
00:42:07.430 --> 00:42:20.119 Chris Bache: Fields gather wherever people gather with focused intention, and by improving the quality and the focus of one's intentionality you can strengthen those fields.
00:42:20.120 --> 00:42:26.229 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hence the the whole idea of entrainment where I started with my blog post this morning, that
00:42:26.620 --> 00:42:37.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and and it's something that I've heard for many years that a facilitator who's doing this work can only take the clients they're working with as deep as they have gone themselves.
00:42:37.790 --> 00:42:52.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But but it's almost like you're you're taking the turning the whole paradigm on its head that it's not about this what the students do. But it's about what the teacher does, and the deeper the teacher goes into
00:42:52.210 --> 00:42:57.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: their understanding of the material of of the experience
00:42:57.220 --> 00:43:02.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that those people who come to them are going to entrain to that, and will
00:43:03.100 --> 00:43:07.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: also kind of deepen their work in the same vein.
00:43:07.630 --> 00:43:22.059 Chris Bache: Yes, if they are receptive to the influence, there is a spontaneous resonance which is established between someone who has gone deeper and activated sort of certain clarified states of consciousness.
00:43:22.080 --> 00:43:34.119 Chris Bache: and someone who has the appetite for or the interest in, and is receptive to, that type of resonance. And this is well recognized in the spiritual traditions.
00:43:34.520 --> 00:43:42.930 Chris Bache: In the Taoist tradition in particular, that that there is a parallel resonance that is established.
00:43:43.130 --> 00:43:44.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'll have.
00:43:44.650 --> 00:43:52.099 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How did this 20 year experience of of working with high doses of Lsd and taking you really deep into the
00:43:52.240 --> 00:43:57.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: fabric of the consciousness of the universe. How did it affect your own
00:43:58.202 --> 00:44:03.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: sense of spirituality, or your own belief of of what is.
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:12.015 Chris Bache: Well, these are large questions you're answering, and it would take a long time to answer that question.
00:44:14.990 --> 00:44:16.909 Chris Bache: when you go
00:44:17.020 --> 00:44:21.709 Chris Bache: as deep as I went in my journey, which took me
00:44:21.870 --> 00:44:23.510 Chris Bache: far beyond
00:44:24.145 --> 00:44:28.309 Chris Bache: space-time reality multiple times. It lifted me
00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:34.750 Chris Bache: into a global perspective and then transcending a human evolutionary perspective.
00:44:34.890 --> 00:44:41.449 Chris Bache: It. It leads you to have a a deep appreciation for the spiritual geniuses of history.
00:44:42.260 --> 00:44:52.530 Chris Bache: same time transcending all historical frameworks for understanding spirituality. It just. It's kind of like you, just
00:44:53.160 --> 00:44:54.210 Chris Bache: even.
00:44:55.270 --> 00:45:09.570 Chris Bache: And I want to emphasize that there's a very big difference between contemplative practice and psychedelic practice which gives you temporary access and temporary access is not the same as abiding access.
00:45:09.570 --> 00:45:09.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Man.
00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:14.460 Chris Bache: The great spiritual teachers, the great masters are always my guiding light
00:45:14.660 --> 00:45:22.960 Chris Bache: and abiding access is a much deeper stabilization than temporary access. But even to have temporary access.
00:45:23.390 --> 00:45:43.710 Chris Bache: gives you a profound sense of appreciation of the universal themes of spiritual traditions and the relativity of all of these spiritual traditions, and it opens you up to an evolutionary perspective which reaches into the future millions, billions of years. So.
00:45:43.710 --> 00:45:44.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That you begin.
00:45:44.260 --> 00:45:57.060 Chris Bache: To see everything which is manifesting or has manifested up to now, is manifesting, now is moving towards the crescendo of where we're going. In the next phase.
00:45:57.060 --> 00:45:57.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: A few minutes.
00:45:57.580 --> 00:46:05.219 Chris Bache: Evolution, which is one of the big surprises for me because I started this work thinking this was about personal transformation.
00:46:05.730 --> 00:46:14.159 Chris Bache: And I got drawn so frequently and so many times into the human story in the story of our human evolution.
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:20.809 Chris Bache: and then began to be given downloads into this evolutionary pivot that
00:46:21.390 --> 00:46:28.270 Chris Bache: I was shown that we are in the process of making and giving birth to what I call the birth of the future human.
00:46:28.695 --> 00:46:29.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That.
00:46:29.050 --> 00:46:35.619 Chris Bache: Completely surprised me because I wasn't expecting anything of that scale and scope to emerge in this work.
00:46:35.790 --> 00:46:37.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, wow!
00:46:38.940 --> 00:46:41.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I can talk to you for hours. I got to take one more break
00:46:41.770 --> 00:46:54.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: when we come back. There are just a couple of things I want to touch upon hopefully. We have enough time. I do want to touch upon life cycles and and your view on reincarnation. And then I want to touch upon
00:46:54.460 --> 00:47:11.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: where this experiences have shown you where we're going as a human species, because we're at such a chaotic time right now there's a lot of fear, a lot of anguish. And and I'm curious. Your perspective on where this is all going. Okay.
00:47:11.950 --> 00:47:12.310 Chris Bache: Yeah.
00:47:12.670 --> 00:47:19.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour, and we'll be right back. To sum it all up with our guest.
00:47:19.950 --> 00:47:21.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Christopher M. Bates.
00:47:21.620 --> 00:47:24.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we'll stay tuned. We'll be right back.
00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:34.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So another deep question for you.
00:49:36.210 --> 00:49:47.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so where did reincarnation? Because you wrote a book? Life cycles all about reincarnation and the and how it relates to the latest of what we know about consciousness.
00:49:47.160 --> 00:49:56.039 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How did that kind of come about? And and where do you see? Sort of reincarnation fitting in with all of this that we've been talking about today.
00:49:57.090 --> 00:50:03.439 Chris Bache: Came about when I 1st encountered Ian Stevenson's Research University professor at the University of Virginia.
00:50:03.550 --> 00:50:10.019 Chris Bache: and I think he is often thought to be the sort of Charles Darwin of reincarnation, thinking.
00:50:10.570 --> 00:50:28.279 Chris Bache: Basically, as a philosopher, I'm absolutely convinced that the case for reincarnation, the evidence for reincarnation is overwhelming. Today we have lots and lots hundreds and hundreds of cases, both spontaneous case memories of spontaneous
00:50:28.782 --> 00:50:32.719 Chris Bache: excuse me. Cases of spontaneous memories in children.
00:50:32.840 --> 00:50:38.049 Chris Bache: cases in past life, regression, therapy, very powerful modalities of therapy.
00:50:38.170 --> 00:50:41.190 Chris Bache: This this evidence didn't exist 50 years ago.
00:50:41.850 --> 00:50:47.100 Chris Bache: It's in abundance, and it's sufficiently, critically sifted
00:50:47.120 --> 00:50:59.379 Chris Bache: that we have sufficient evidence. I think, that we can say that reincarnation is just simply a fact of life. It's like plate tectonics in geology. It was always there, but we couldn't see it until
00:50:59.970 --> 00:51:17.409 Chris Bache: came to understand certain things. Reincarnation is a similar ground shifting impact. Once you see it. Once you understand that every human being, you see has been evolving and reincarnating and reincarnating for goodness knows how long.
00:51:17.410 --> 00:51:17.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:21.320 Chris Bache: Changes your understanding. What the dynamic of life is all about.
00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:22.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:51:22.870 --> 00:51:38.980 Chris Bache: Classically in the Eastern traditions. The basic vision is that you reincarnate. You grow and grow and grow, and you activate various chakras, and you become kinder, more intuitive, you know, more enlightened, until eventually you achieve
00:51:39.120 --> 00:52:02.129 Chris Bache: a breakthrough to a level of consciousness which you recognize that your individual essence is identical to the essence of everything which exists. Atman equals Brahman or some Nirvana experience. Once you achieve that, then you can leave time and space. That's the purpose of the exercise is to get out of town. These are all up, and
00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:05.549 Chris Bache: cosmologies, which all came into being about
00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:08.160 Chris Bache: 3 to 5,000 years ago.
00:52:08.660 --> 00:52:18.670 Chris Bache: In my experience in my sessions. That's not what I was shown, and I understand that interpretation. It makes perfectly good sense. Given where we were
00:52:18.980 --> 00:52:20.140 Chris Bache: when that
00:52:20.180 --> 00:52:22.319 Chris Bache: theory came in about.
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:22.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:52:22.710 --> 00:52:31.950 Chris Bache: And years ago. But now that we understand how big the universe is, how old it is, how intelligent it is, how many complex layers of life are involved.
00:52:32.160 --> 00:52:39.339 Chris Bache: I think it's it doesn't strike us as intuitively correct that just when you begin to realize what you are
00:52:39.350 --> 00:52:42.830 Chris Bache: in, who you are that you would then want to leave.
00:52:42.830 --> 00:52:43.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:52:44.040 --> 00:52:47.210 Chris Bache: And I think what was shown in my work was.
00:52:47.250 --> 00:53:00.039 Chris Bache: I reached a point in my work where, on one particular session, I began to integrate all my former lives. They were coming into me very fast, and I had done past life therapy before I was familiar with some, but
00:53:00.050 --> 00:53:02.220 Chris Bache: these were all coming in together.
00:53:02.600 --> 00:53:21.789 Chris Bache: and then it was as if they hit a critical mass, and they fused, and when they fused into one there was an explosion of energy, an explosion of diamond light out of my heart, and it catapulted me into an unprecedented state of awareness in which I was an individual.
00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:32.739 Chris Bache: but not an individual within any frame of reference that I had known before, and I think what it was giving me was a glimpse of where reincarnation is taking us not only individually.
00:53:33.270 --> 00:53:34.860 Chris Bache: but as a species.
00:53:35.230 --> 00:53:35.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The.
00:53:35.600 --> 00:53:54.670 Chris Bache: We have been growing and growing and growing and growing, and now we are in the process of beginning to integrate all of our past lives, all the karma of those lives, all the suffering and pain of those lives, and we are literally bringing together, clearing them, and when they eventually fuse.
00:53:54.950 --> 00:53:58.010 Chris Bache: It gives birth to a consciousness
00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:18.120 Chris Bache: which isn't simply an enlightened consciousness. It is an enlightened soul consciousness where inside the body we experience ourselves as being not a hundred year old, being, or even a hundred year old, enlightened, being but a hundred 1,000 year old, being.
00:54:18.120 --> 00:54:18.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:22.380 Chris Bache: And I think that the form that the future human
00:54:22.410 --> 00:54:27.490 Chris Bache: is going to take this revolutionary pivot that we're in the process of making
00:54:27.600 --> 00:54:33.349 Chris Bache: is precisely the diamond soul. I think the form of our future self is implicit.
00:54:33.470 --> 00:54:42.840 Chris Bache: Once you understand the evolutionary process that we've been involved in so like biological birth. Gestation is long.
00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:43.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:54:43.500 --> 00:54:46.400 Chris Bache: Labor is short, dangerous, and intense.
00:54:46.890 --> 00:55:04.180 Chris Bache: We've been gestating the future human for hundreds of thousands of years. Now we are entering. Labor. Labor is dangerous, it's turbulent. We can no longer afford the luxury of trying to live on this planet in egoic states of consciousness. We must give birth to the soul.
00:55:04.230 --> 00:55:09.489 Chris Bache: If we're going to survive the perilous confrontation that we are coming into.
00:55:12.530 --> 00:55:19.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: given the the state of where we are, and the the sort of anxiety where people are. Do you have a sense of
00:55:19.420 --> 00:55:38.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: what's going to happen. A lot of people are very concerned about the climate change, the ecological disaster about this division, the violence. Everything seems to be going crazy right now during labor. Is this going to be a stillbirth, or are we going to make it through the canal?
00:55:42.460 --> 00:55:46.600 Chris Bache: I think it's going to be a birth, a magnificent birth.
00:55:46.690 --> 00:55:52.620 Chris Bache: There's a whole chapter in my book called The Birth of the Future Human.
00:55:52.620 --> 00:55:52.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:55:52.910 --> 00:56:01.420 Chris Bache: In it. I I lay out the visions that were given to me about this extraordinary spiritual awakening that's taking place in the collective Psyche.
00:56:01.500 --> 00:56:07.300 Chris Bache: But I was. I also give the experience that happened to me in 95
00:56:07.510 --> 00:56:10.980 Chris Bache: of the death and rebirth of humanity
00:56:11.170 --> 00:56:11.900 Chris Bache: in the base
00:56:12.300 --> 00:56:33.650 Chris Bache: that emerges there is that we are entering a period of profound deconstruction, destabilization, a global systems crisis, the likes of which history has never seen before, and it seemed to be precipitated by a cascading series of ecological crises, of again historically unprecedented magnitudes.
00:56:33.650 --> 00:56:34.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:41.250 Chris Bache: A series of crises that will push us to our breaking point, and until we eventually
00:56:41.810 --> 00:56:56.100 Chris Bache: we are really confronting with just the bare necessity of survival. So a very painful, very disruptive period, a hard period. And I think you can understand, if we are going into a period of
00:56:56.100 --> 00:57:11.950 Chris Bache: economic and survival necessity. It's going to precipitate tremendous social upheaval, polarization of politics, political opinions, a lot of conflict nationally and as well as internationally.
00:57:12.220 --> 00:57:27.849 Chris Bache: But my experience is that we do make it through this crisis that we come to a point where literally we are broken down, and when we begin, the crisis begins to ease, and when we begin to pick ourselves up.
00:57:27.850 --> 00:57:28.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Maybe.
00:57:28.220 --> 00:57:44.980 Chris Bache: To put the pieces together again, we find that we are changed. Something has been opened inside us by the intensity and depth of this crisis that we literally begin to emerge with new sets of values, new sets of functions.
00:57:44.980 --> 00:58:04.390 Chris Bache: new social organizations and creativity cascades upon creativity, and we are transitioning into a new future. And it's not simply a new economic future or a new psychological future. I think we are facing a shift in the plate tectonics of the collective Psyche.
00:58:04.390 --> 00:58:04.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That.
00:58:04.770 --> 00:58:33.639 Chris Bache: All generations born after we make this transition, will be operating in the matrix of a different collective Psyche than we are operating in now it didn't give me a lot of details. It didn't tell me exactly how it didn't show me when I don't have any of that information. But in those experiences, and in subsequent experiences where I was taken deeper into deep time and experienced the future human
00:58:33.700 --> 00:58:35.929 Chris Bache: from the future perspective.
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:40.980 Chris Bache: I am personally absolutely convinced that we do make it. But
00:58:41.100 --> 00:58:53.309 Chris Bache: it's going to take all of our resources, and all of us working as hard as we can to make it. Through this transition. My concern is not. Do we fail? I I can't help.
00:58:53.770 --> 00:59:00.849 Chris Bache: I know that we make it through. My concern is how many of our children and grandchildren are going to die
00:59:01.010 --> 00:59:04.409 Chris Bache: before we come to our spiritual senses.
00:59:04.410 --> 00:59:06.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:59:06.550 --> 00:59:07.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well.
00:59:07.720 --> 00:59:18.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: unfortunately, we have to leave it there. Dr. Bates, I literally, I could talk to you all day long around these topics. It's for me so fascinating. And
00:59:18.280 --> 00:59:23.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and I really want to bring more emphasis on sort of the spiritual side
00:59:23.610 --> 00:59:24.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: of
00:59:24.820 --> 00:59:31.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: yeah, of using these substances as a way of breaking through the way. We've always been
00:59:31.490 --> 00:59:34.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to come to a new way of being, which is.
00:59:34.350 --> 00:59:34.980 Chris Bache: Yeah.
00:59:34.980 --> 01:00:01.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hopefully the future human and and before I forget, I would be neglectful in my duty if I didn't mention that Chris Christopher Bage comes to me from the because he's going to be speaking at the Spirit Plant Medicine Conference, which is spiritplantmedicine.com, which happens in person in Vancouver, and virtually so. You can tune in virtually, and I have a special coupon code for my audience.
01:00:01.770 --> 01:00:11.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Tcc for the conscious consultants. All capital. Tcc. 2024, and you'll get a 35% discount. Dr. Bach.
01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:30.710 Chris Bache: I want to say, this is a wonderful conference. It's my favorite psychedelic conference. It's very intimate. It's a smallish group. It's not like, God bless maps! Great and 13,000. It's not like that. It's a very interesting committed group of practitioners of psychedelic therapy and psychedelic arts.
01:00:30.710 --> 01:00:36.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, thank you. Thank you. And if people want to learn more about you, do you have a personal website? Dr. Bates.
01:00:36.750 --> 01:00:43.160 Chris Bache: Chris, base.com. I'm not keeping it quite up to date. But yeah, Chris, base.com. They people can contact me through that.
01:00:43.160 --> 01:00:54.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful wonderful! Thank you so much, Dr. Beach, I truly appreciate you. It's been a pleasure having you on the show, and I'd be happy to have you come back on anytime in the future. If you have any new books coming out.
01:00:54.940 --> 01:00:58.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or new additions contact me, we'll get you back on the show. Okay.
01:00:58.660 --> 01:01:02.120 Chris Bache: Okay, my pleasure, Sam. Thank you very much for the amplification.
01:01:02.120 --> 01:01:28.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you. Thank you very much. And of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in every week. Without you there is no show and of course. If you missed any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on talkradio, dot, Nyc and on all the major podcasting platforms, apple spotify Pandora Iheartradio. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find the conscious consultant hour. Thank you all for tuning in. We will talk to you all next week.
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