Fridays 1:00pm - 2:00pm (EDT)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
Listeners will learn how the evolution of the human brain makes us vulnerable to things like emotional manipulation, toxic conflict, misogyny, and dysfunction. Can we re-train our brain to become immune to this manipulation and bring the best out of ourselves and whom we lead? YES! Dr. Dana Ackley will show us how.
WHAT YOU WILL LEARN:
We have been experiencing a rise in dangerous and toxic divisiveness in our country. Why does it happen? What can we, as individuals, do about it? How does this impact success for leaders, followers, organizations, and our society at large? This is what we'll be delving into in this episode.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Dana C. Ackley, PhD, is the author of A Little Book to Save Humanity. He earned a doctorate in clinical psychology from Florida State University in 1973. For the next 25 years, he worked with families to help them overcome deep divides and significant challenges. Since the late 1990s, he has served as an executive coach and consultant to organizations, helping leaders bring the best of themselves to nearly impossible jobs. Dana has twice been named a Fellow of the American Psychological Association for innovative thinking in using psychological knowledge to solve vexing problems. He is an internationally recognized expert in Emotional Intelligence, based on his groundbreaking EQ Leader Program, the first comprehensive program for EQ development for leaders. The father of three adult children, he lives in Virginia with his wife Peg.
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LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
Guest LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/dana-ackley-331a197
Guest Website: https://theeqpress.com ; https//EQleader.net
Our website: www.gotowerscope.com
brain evolution, conflict entrepreneurs, Little Book, Emotional Intelligence, EQ, leadership, humanity, #TheHardSkills #Impact #LeadershipSkills #LeadershipEQ
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
00:00:49.600 --> 00:01:02.219 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the nuanced hard skills meaning the most challenging soft skills needed to make a real impact through your leadership.
00:01:02.610 --> 00:01:08.009 Mira Brancu: And we've been experiencing a rise in dangerous and toxic divisiveness in our country in the Us.
00:01:08.090 --> 00:01:09.680 Mira Brancu: Why does it happen?
00:01:09.860 --> 00:01:12.659 Mira Brancu: What can we, as individuals do about it?
00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:18.750 Mira Brancu: And how does this impact success for leaders, followers, organizations, and society at large?
00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:25.110 Mira Brancu: This is what we'll be delving into on this episode with with our guest today, Dr. Dana Ackley.
00:01:25.460 --> 00:01:30.120 Mira Brancu: how to retrain our brain to address toxic divisiveness. Hey, Dana, welcome.
00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:33.340 Dana Ackley: Hi, thank you so much. It's great to be here, Mara.
00:01:33.340 --> 00:01:53.010 Mira Brancu: So great to have you. And this is perfect for season five's focus on making a greater impact, because we, as individuals, can make a greater impact, and he is here to share how now I am your host, Dr. Mira Bran, who, I'm a leadership, consulting and coaching psychologist, founder of the Towerscope Leadership Academy and Towerscope Company.
00:01:53.110 --> 00:02:05.189 Mira Brancu: an associate professor, a psychology today columnist, author of Millennials Guide to workplace politics, and had my own leadership career before transitioning to helping teens and high achieving women navigate their leadership complexities.
00:02:05.600 --> 00:02:15.080 Mira Brancu: Now let me introduce Dr. Dana Ackley. Dr. Ackley is an author of a little book to save humanity.
00:02:15.510 --> 00:02:35.569 Mira Brancu: and for the past 25 years he was a clinical psychologist, working with families to help them overcome deep divides and significant challenges. Since the late 19 nineties. He's served as an executive coach and consultant to organizations, helping leaders bring the best of themselves to nearly impossible jobs.
00:02:35.580 --> 00:02:49.550 Mira Brancu: Dana has twice been named a fellow of the American Psychological Association is an internationally recognized expert in emotional intelligence and created the Eq. Leader program. The 1st comprehensive program for Eq. Development of leaders.
00:02:50.390 --> 00:02:52.150 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome Dina.
00:02:52.150 --> 00:02:53.360 Dana Ackley: Thank you so much.
00:02:53.630 --> 00:02:55.587 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. So.
00:02:56.630 --> 00:03:03.410 Mira Brancu: Dana, I'm let's start with like, just your own history. Of how did you get here? You were a clinical psychologist.
00:03:03.410 --> 00:03:03.690 Dana Ackley: Sure.
00:03:03.690 --> 00:03:12.590 Mira Brancu: With families. How did you get into the topic of Eq. How did you get into executive coaching focused on Eq. As the aspect of your focus.
00:03:13.040 --> 00:03:13.524 Dana Ackley: Well.
00:03:14.200 --> 00:03:16.702 Dana Ackley: like you say I was a clinician
00:03:17.410 --> 00:03:28.420 Dana Ackley: and I'd gotten interested for a variety of reasons that are probably irrelevant to our focus today. But I got interested in making a career shift
00:03:28.440 --> 00:03:33.090 Dana Ackley: into executive coaching and working with organizations and with leaders.
00:03:33.860 --> 00:03:34.740 Dana Ackley: And
00:03:35.490 --> 00:03:44.809 Dana Ackley: but I was a clinician. So what was I going to do with these people? And I needed a focus. And I looked around and found emotional intelligence as a set of skills
00:03:45.010 --> 00:03:47.240 Dana Ackley: that looked to me
00:03:47.610 --> 00:03:51.899 Dana Ackley: as essential to what leaders have to be able to do.
00:03:52.020 --> 00:03:58.379 Dana Ackley: Well, that was 20 some years ago, and since then thousands of studies on emotional intelligence and leadership have been done none by me.
00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:05.400 Dana Ackley: but but they've been done and verified that indeed, these skills are the ones that help
00:04:05.570 --> 00:04:13.449 Dana Ackley: differentiate folks who are not so successful from those that are even even those that are very smart.
00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:22.329 Dana Ackley: One of the pioneers of emotional intelligence. Reuben Baron was on faculty at the University of Texas, Galveston Medical School.
00:04:23.210 --> 00:04:25.579 Dana Ackley: and one day he was walking across campus.
00:04:26.050 --> 00:04:27.380 Dana Ackley: and he said, You know.
00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:31.410 Dana Ackley: everybody in this faculty is really smart.
00:04:31.510 --> 00:04:33.730 Dana Ackley: but only some of them are successful.
00:04:33.930 --> 00:04:39.020 Dana Ackley: I wonder what makes the difference? There is nothing better than a good question.
00:04:39.670 --> 00:04:48.099 Dana Ackley: And so he spent the next 17 years doing research to identify what are the skills that people need in addition to intellectual skills?
00:04:49.400 --> 00:04:53.850 Dana Ackley: And and and so that made a lot of sense to me.
00:04:54.280 --> 00:04:55.780 Dana Ackley: It's also true
00:04:55.950 --> 00:04:56.910 Dana Ackley: that
00:04:57.070 --> 00:05:00.160 Dana Ackley: we don't teach these skills in any systematic way.
00:05:00.330 --> 00:05:03.000 Dana Ackley: We're real good in our culture at teaching
00:05:03.210 --> 00:05:04.730 Dana Ackley: intellectual skills.
00:05:05.280 --> 00:05:15.840 Dana Ackley: But so if I do a workshop for a group of leaders, and they'll say, Well, how many of you took science? Everybody raises their hand. Algebra hands go up, English hands go up empathy.
00:05:16.420 --> 00:05:18.990 Dana Ackley: No hands go up because we don't teach it.
00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:23.750 Dana Ackley: And so people are left to learn these essential skills that we all need
00:05:24.330 --> 00:05:25.940 Dana Ackley: as catch as catch can't.
00:05:27.090 --> 00:05:29.369 Dana Ackley: So what I found is that
00:05:29.670 --> 00:05:34.670 Dana Ackley: by helping leaders develop these skills they become more successful
00:05:34.810 --> 00:05:37.600 Dana Ackley: and contribute more to the well-being.
00:05:38.180 --> 00:05:40.750 Dana Ackley: not just of themselves, although that happens
00:05:41.010 --> 00:05:43.720 Dana Ackley: but to the well-being of the people whom they lead.
00:05:43.830 --> 00:05:48.830 Dana Ackley: the other stakeholders in the organization. And and of course the company, or what have you.
00:05:49.650 --> 00:06:02.883 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And so then, how did you move from? I wanna help leaders? Be more effective, more successful and create a better wellbeing within their organization to saving humanity.
00:06:06.030 --> 00:06:09.069 Dana Ackley: Well, it's it's it's a shorter step than it may seem.
00:06:09.070 --> 00:06:09.705 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:06:10.340 --> 00:06:15.859 Dana Ackley: So, you know, like you, Mira, and and our listeners, I'm a citizen
00:06:15.970 --> 00:06:17.420 Dana Ackley: of this country.
00:06:17.550 --> 00:06:19.460 Dana Ackley: and I'm a citizen of the world.
00:06:20.090 --> 00:06:34.849 Dana Ackley: And so when I've been in organizations and watched this function, I could see, oh, this is how that's happening. Why don't we step in and and build people skills so that they can or do the or work in this organization
00:06:35.110 --> 00:06:39.340 Dana Ackley: better and and more, with more constructive interaction among them.
00:06:39.840 --> 00:06:42.800 Dana Ackley: not without conflict. Conflict is good.
00:06:43.270 --> 00:06:45.420 Dana Ackley: constructive conflict is good.
00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:47.799 Dana Ackley: because then we can learn from each other.
00:06:48.550 --> 00:06:54.189 Dana Ackley: So then, as I look at what's happening in our country and in the world.
00:06:54.580 --> 00:06:59.450 Dana Ackley: One of the things I notice is we're getting increasingly good as a species.
00:06:59.970 --> 00:07:01.430 Dana Ackley: they're killing each other.
00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.019 Dana Ackley: We are more and more skilled.
00:07:04.380 --> 00:07:05.979 Dana Ackley: If we're not careful.
00:07:06.190 --> 00:07:10.639 Dana Ackley: We're going to become the 1st species to voluntarily become extinct
00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:16.140 Dana Ackley: in our country. What we're seeing is an elevation of the Hate Index
00:07:17.670 --> 00:07:21.060 Dana Ackley: and that's not serving anyone.
00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:22.893 Dana Ackley: So it's
00:07:23.980 --> 00:07:32.080 Dana Ackley: I recognize that these, a lot of the attention that we paid to emotional intelligence has been at the leadership level. And while it should be.
00:07:32.150 --> 00:07:34.129 Dana Ackley: But this is stuff for everybody.
00:07:34.430 --> 00:07:41.300 Dana Ackley: And so that's what I've tried to do with this book. This is a book that I've written for the lay public. They don't have to have all kinds of degrees.
00:07:41.669 --> 00:07:47.540 Dana Ackley: It's it's written for people who have been busy learning other things. And so that this is an introduction
00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:51.360 Dana Ackley: to how they can go about contributing to
00:07:51.640 --> 00:07:55.940 Dana Ackley: frankly the better evolution of the human species.
00:07:56.490 --> 00:08:04.840 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, I was. Gonna say, you know, as you're talking it's easy to fall into a feeling of despair
00:08:04.950 --> 00:08:11.580 Mira Brancu: like, what are we? What are we to do? We're more divided than ever before, more more polarized.
00:08:12.067 --> 00:08:21.032 Mira Brancu: We're we're gonna be, you know, become voluntarily extinct, as you say, like that that feeling of despair sets in. And so
00:08:21.790 --> 00:08:23.080 Mira Brancu: What is.
00:08:23.390 --> 00:08:33.039 Mira Brancu: Tell us more about your take about how we can take back control over that feeling of despair and get back into what we do, have control over.
00:08:33.330 --> 00:08:41.920 Dana Ackley: Okay. So so what might be useful is, I'd like to read the 1st 3 paragraphs of the introduction to the book, because
00:08:41.970 --> 00:08:44.700 Dana Ackley: you know it. It sets it up, it sets up the rest of.
00:08:44.700 --> 00:08:44.970 Mira Brancu: Sounds.
00:08:44.970 --> 00:08:48.019 Dana Ackley: The answer to your question. So here we go.
00:08:48.550 --> 00:08:51.700 Dana Ackley: As I write this, in 2024 in America.
00:08:52.230 --> 00:08:56.229 Dana Ackley: the country that aspires to be the light of democracy for the world
00:08:56.900 --> 00:09:00.509 Dana Ackley: we see increasingly sharp and toxic divisions.
00:09:01.090 --> 00:09:06.489 Dana Ackley: Various groups line up to hate other groups, encouraged to do so by conflict
00:09:06.560 --> 00:09:08.030 Dana Ackley: entrepreneurs.
00:09:08.300 --> 00:09:12.449 Dana Ackley: These are people who have learned how to manipulate other people's emotions.
00:09:12.640 --> 00:09:16.950 Dana Ackley: sparking fear and hatred for their own selfish purposes.
00:09:17.310 --> 00:09:23.039 Dana Ackley: Conflict entrepreneurs, including many politicians, and I didn't say this in the book on both sides of the aisle.
00:09:23.570 --> 00:09:27.690 Dana Ackley: and members of many members of the media, with both slants.
00:09:28.420 --> 00:09:31.370 Dana Ackley: are driven to get votes and to sell airtime.
00:09:31.460 --> 00:09:33.799 Dana Ackley: Never mind the damage done
00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:39.210 Dana Ackley: talking about our fellow citizens as if they were. The enemy is poison.
00:09:39.710 --> 00:09:44.009 Dana Ackley: Our job, yours and mine is to not let them win.
00:09:44.260 --> 00:09:47.290 Dana Ackley: And this little book exists for just that purpose.
00:09:48.040 --> 00:09:50.460 Dana Ackley: We need to demand better of our leaders
00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:55.110 Dana Ackley: as a group. Today's politicians have become masters of getting elected.
00:09:55.280 --> 00:09:58.640 Dana Ackley: but too many fail miserably when they try to govern
00:09:59.030 --> 00:10:04.560 Dana Ackley: the methods they use to get elected, undermine their ability to be competent leaders for all people.
00:10:04.730 --> 00:10:08.649 Dana Ackley: I'm gonna stop. I've got one more paragraph I want to read. But so
00:10:08.680 --> 00:10:11.169 Dana Ackley: that's you know, that's the despair part.
00:10:12.930 --> 00:10:13.650 Dana Ackley: But
00:10:13.910 --> 00:10:17.449 Dana Ackley: to give the lie to conflict entrepreneurs.
00:10:17.700 --> 00:10:22.660 Dana Ackley: Peter Coleman, Phd. A social psychologist at Columbia University.
00:10:22.740 --> 00:10:25.849 Dana Ackley: Hasdam has done some important research.
00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:32.879 Dana Ackley: Among other things. He studied the political spectrum and found that Americans fall into 7 different categories.
00:10:33.070 --> 00:10:34.940 Dana Ackley: And here's what may surprise you.
00:10:36.020 --> 00:10:41.800 Dana Ackley: 86% of Americans are somewhere in the middle. 5 categories.
00:10:42.060 --> 00:10:45.950 Dana Ackley: only 14% exist on the extreme fringes.
00:10:46.330 --> 00:10:48.550 Dana Ackley: Yet who do we hear the most from?
00:10:48.910 --> 00:10:50.030 Dana Ackley: Are you
00:10:50.210 --> 00:10:55.029 Dana Ackley: hearing 86% of the news deal with relatively moderate positions.
00:10:55.390 --> 00:10:56.400 Dana Ackley: I don't.
00:10:56.730 --> 00:11:04.259 Dana Ackley: Moderate positions are. And and I'm adding in something here, moderate position. Politicians are a lot less famous
00:11:04.700 --> 00:11:08.210 Dana Ackley: than the ones who grab emotional attention
00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:13.009 Dana Ackley: and media features the sensational, the emotional because it sells airtime.
00:11:14.860 --> 00:11:17.919 Dana Ackley: So we've got this huge 86%.
00:11:18.030 --> 00:11:24.709 Dana Ackley: And that is who the book is aimed for, to give all of us some tools to use
00:11:24.870 --> 00:11:28.099 Dana Ackley: to if you will take back the microphone.
00:11:28.550 --> 00:11:30.559 Dana Ackley: Yeah. So yeah. So the go ahead.
00:11:30.890 --> 00:11:45.159 Mira Brancu: Yeah, no, I I love this before we get into anything else. I just love this phrase conflict entrepreneurs. And I just want to expand on that a little bit more.
00:11:45.699 --> 00:11:53.479 Mira Brancu: Tell us like, describe what? What do they do? What do they elicit? Why are they doing these things?
00:11:54.760 --> 00:11:56.140 Dana Ackley: Well to gain power.
00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.980 Dana Ackley: I mean, that's that's about them. They gain power and control.
00:12:00.732 --> 00:12:04.460 Dana Ackley: I'm not going to talk about any present day politicians.
00:12:04.680 --> 00:12:08.390 Dana Ackley: Hitler was a master conflict entrepreneur.
00:12:08.900 --> 00:12:19.340 Dana Ackley: the Treaty of Versailles that ended the 1st World War impoverished Germany. So Hitler, being a smart guy, decided to make the enemy of the Jews
00:12:19.490 --> 00:12:27.559 Dana Ackley: and blame them and the gypsies for all of the problems, and that coalesced everybody else, and they had this common enemy that they could work against.
00:12:28.750 --> 00:12:30.790 Dana Ackley: That's kind of what they do.
00:12:31.270 --> 00:12:32.630 Dana Ackley: Emotion
00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:34.960 Dana Ackley: grabs our attention.
00:12:35.110 --> 00:12:36.729 Dana Ackley: Imagine, if you will.
00:12:36.820 --> 00:12:39.590 Dana Ackley: that you're in a room with a hundred other people.
00:12:39.770 --> 00:12:42.940 Dana Ackley: and you're at small tables. We're having small group discussions.
00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:47.010 Dana Ackley: and they're very civilized. People are talking quietly with each other.
00:12:47.140 --> 00:12:50.469 Dana Ackley: But over across the room somebody starts yelling.
00:12:51.090 --> 00:12:52.820 Dana Ackley: Where does your attention go?
00:12:53.540 --> 00:12:55.869 Dana Ackley: It goes right to that table.
00:12:56.090 --> 00:12:57.340 Mira Brancu: Who's yelling.
00:12:57.340 --> 00:12:59.829 Dana Ackley: That's right. And are they in danger?
00:12:59.830 --> 00:13:00.500 Mira Brancu: Yes.
00:13:00.700 --> 00:13:08.599 Dana Ackley: And that brings us to the issue of evolution. Brain evolution, which will lead us into training our brains.
00:13:08.780 --> 00:13:12.089 Dana Ackley: and is is that where we should go. Now do we have time for that, or.
00:13:12.090 --> 00:13:26.449 Mira Brancu: Yeah, let's let's take a break, because I think that I want people to really attend to how our brains evolved to focus on these contra conflict entrepreneurs, and how we can focus away and do something different to retrain our brain.
00:13:26.450 --> 00:13:26.850 Dana Ackley: Okay.
00:13:26.850 --> 00:13:45.100 Mira Brancu: That's going to be powerful. I don't want to take away from that. So we're nearing an ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Dana Ackley, author of a little book to save humanity. We are on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern. That's right. Now, if you're watching right now, if you would like to join us online
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:55.849 Mira Brancu: and ask any questions right now that we can answer in real time you can find us on Linkedin or youtube@talkradio.nyc. And we'll be right back with our guests in just a moment.
00:16:11.880 --> 00:16:17.259 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Dana Ackley.
00:16:17.490 --> 00:16:18.340 Mira Brancu: So
00:16:19.470 --> 00:16:27.140 Mira Brancu: we talked about what the issue is conflict entrepreneurs, they steal away our attention. The attention is towards
00:16:27.783 --> 00:16:28.849 Mira Brancu: sort of
00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:37.839 Mira Brancu: distilling in in, you know, distilling fear into simplicity. If if I'm sort of.
00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:38.330 Dana Ackley: Beautiful.
00:16:38.330 --> 00:16:47.510 Mira Brancu: On this right? And so we were going to start talking about, how does this happen? Why are we? Why are our brains doing this? What's happening there.
00:16:47.760 --> 00:16:51.469 Dana Ackley: Okay? Well, it goes back to evolution.
00:16:51.930 --> 00:16:59.979 Dana Ackley: The human species has been evolving for 50,000 generations. If we go back to our evolutionary forebears
00:17:00.750 --> 00:17:07.020 Dana Ackley: recorded. History is 6,000 years, which is only 240 generations.
00:17:07.230 --> 00:17:13.020 Dana Ackley: So what that means is that 49,760 generations we lived in caves, and such
00:17:13.819 --> 00:17:21.729 Dana Ackley: very primitive circumstances, where resources were very scarce and danger was everywhere.
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.960 Dana Ackley: So evolution
00:17:25.220 --> 00:17:28.029 Dana Ackley: is a problem solving process.
00:17:28.610 --> 00:17:34.899 Dana Ackley: And so the part of how the brain evolved was to develop the limbic system, which is where emotions are.
00:17:34.980 --> 00:17:38.389 Dana Ackley: and within the limbic system there's a part called the amygdala
00:17:38.978 --> 00:17:45.140 Dana Ackley: and you know, scientists like to name fancy thing these things. Fancy. But don't worry. Go! Don't worry about that.
00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:49.260 Dana Ackley: The amygdala's job is to scan the environment for danger.
00:17:49.850 --> 00:17:54.949 Dana Ackley: and when it spots danger it, it generates the fight or flight response.
00:17:55.770 --> 00:17:57.120 Dana Ackley: and with that
00:17:57.570 --> 00:18:00.610 Dana Ackley: are the emotions of anger and fear.
00:18:01.090 --> 00:18:04.309 Dana Ackley: and the reason for that is, it's very adaptive
00:18:04.620 --> 00:18:10.010 Dana Ackley: that if we're scared we're far better runners away from the saber-toothed tiger.
00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:13.400 Dana Ackley: and if we're angry we're far better fighters.
00:18:17.180 --> 00:18:18.950 Dana Ackley: People who did not
00:18:19.460 --> 00:18:23.400 Dana Ackley: develop a well did not have a well functioning. Amygdala
00:18:23.420 --> 00:18:26.089 Dana Ackley: didn't stick around to contribute to the gene pool.
00:18:26.350 --> 00:18:33.709 Dana Ackley: So what that means is that, Mira, all of your ancestors and mine had those amygdalas that could load around for days.
00:18:33.710 --> 00:18:35.429 Mira Brancu: Still strong, amygdala.
00:18:35.430 --> 00:18:38.450 Dana Ackley: You bet. Yeah. And that's why we're here today.
00:18:39.730 --> 00:18:40.610 Dana Ackley: But
00:18:40.800 --> 00:18:47.099 Dana Ackley: the amygdala is not well suited to modern times. We still have physical dangers that we have to look out for.
00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:50.699 Dana Ackley: but it makes 2 systematic errors.
00:18:51.110 --> 00:18:55.859 Dana Ackley: First, st it prefers false positives, and what that means is
00:18:55.890 --> 00:19:02.320 Dana Ackley: the amygdala. Would the amygdala would much rather see something as a threat and be wrong because it's not a threat.
00:19:02.650 --> 00:19:05.799 Dana Ackley: Then, miss a real threat, because you get one of those and you're dead.
00:19:06.790 --> 00:19:07.949 Dana Ackley: The second
00:19:08.310 --> 00:19:18.550 Dana Ackley: mistake that it makes is that it's primitive and dumb as a box of rocks, so it can't differentiate between physical and psychological threats.
00:19:19.600 --> 00:19:23.310 Dana Ackley: The most popular phobia in America is public speaking.
00:19:23.690 --> 00:19:34.929 Dana Ackley: and so the people who are terrified of public speaking and they somehow get roped into it. They think they're going to die. Their heart is beating, and they're, you know, they're sweating and and all of that.
00:19:35.730 --> 00:19:40.240 Dana Ackley: But they're not going to die. The amygdala has misled them.
00:19:40.800 --> 00:19:43.240 Dana Ackley: So these 2 systematic errors.
00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:47.080 Dana Ackley: get
00:19:47.540 --> 00:19:53.010 Dana Ackley: get us to make mistakes about what true threats are in our modern
00:19:53.280 --> 00:19:54.510 Dana Ackley: society.
00:19:55.227 --> 00:20:01.170 Dana Ackley: For the vast majority of us, not everybody there. There's poverty, and then there's very poor parts of the world.
00:20:01.360 --> 00:20:05.229 Dana Ackley: But for the vast majority certainly of us here in America
00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:07.840 Dana Ackley: we live in a land of plenty.
00:20:08.570 --> 00:20:11.180 Dana Ackley: resources are not scarce.
00:20:11.790 --> 00:20:18.929 Dana Ackley: and so, when conflict entrepreneurs lead us, lead people to believe by appealing to their amygdala.
00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:23.939 Dana Ackley: lead people to believe that some other group
00:20:24.140 --> 00:20:27.859 Dana Ackley: women are. Gonna take all of your jobs, men keep them down.
00:20:27.990 --> 00:20:34.570 Dana Ackley: black people, boy. You better watch out for them, or whatever the marginalized group is that you want to
00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:40.189 Dana Ackley: get people to rally against so that they are listening to you.
00:20:40.270 --> 00:20:41.999 Dana Ackley: And and you've got
00:20:42.080 --> 00:20:47.090 Dana Ackley: that's those strong emotions where you're not doing any critical thinking.
00:20:48.260 --> 00:20:51.449 Dana Ackley: So that's how we got into the get into this mess.
00:20:51.840 --> 00:20:53.940 Dana Ackley: The question is, how do we get out?
00:20:54.250 --> 00:20:55.470 Dana Ackley: Yes, so.
00:20:56.130 --> 00:20:57.720 Dana Ackley: yeah. And you know.
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:01.630 Mira Brancu: I'm I'm just reflecting again on
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:08.169 Mira Brancu: how we have. We have a normal mechanism to help us manage danger
00:21:08.290 --> 00:21:19.959 Mira Brancu: and help us be on alert for truly dangerous behaviors and situations which is self protective, and we need it for survival. But
00:21:20.120 --> 00:21:41.379 Mira Brancu: then we've got a small subset in our society of people who want power and attention, who are abusing the sort of human natural human tendency towards anticipation of fear, and using it to capitalize on that in order to gain power and attention. And we're just giving in.
00:21:42.020 --> 00:21:44.889 Dana Ackley: Perfectly put, perfectly put.
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:49.179 Dana Ackley: And and so we have to build the skills
00:21:49.693 --> 00:21:56.780 Dana Ackley: in ourselves. And that's what the book gets into is, is, how do we protect ourselves from conflict entrepreneurs.
00:21:57.050 --> 00:21:59.779 Dana Ackley: and at the same time protect our families
00:22:00.410 --> 00:22:01.940 Dana Ackley: and our species.
00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:08.550 Dana Ackley: and solve the really complex problems that we have in our in our world today.
00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:11.110 Dana Ackley: We can't afford
00:22:11.760 --> 00:22:12.800 Dana Ackley: to
00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:16.830 Dana Ackley: disenfranchise whole groups of people because they know stuff you don't know.
00:22:17.470 --> 00:22:24.520 Dana Ackley: They bring us perspectives that contribute to the solution of very difficult and complex problems.
00:22:25.280 --> 00:22:28.049 Dana Ackley: So in the book I talk about 4 parts of the brain
00:22:28.360 --> 00:22:33.060 Dana Ackley: brain is really, really complex. People don't have to become neuroscientists to get this stuff. So
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:43.250 Dana Ackley: so we've talked about the limbic system, the emotional part of the brain and the amygdala. And they're down near the brain stem, which shows that they showed up in our brain's evolution. 1st
00:22:43.560 --> 00:22:59.580 Dana Ackley: on top of our head is the cortex. That's the logic system. So if you're people probably don't do this much anymore. But if you were balancing a checkbook or writing computer code or something, you're largely using logic, and that's cool. And that's part of the human
00:23:00.670 --> 00:23:01.860 Dana Ackley: potential
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:12.099 Dana Ackley: that we have done some marvelous how do airplanes fly? How do you build 8 80 story buildings so they don't fall down. I mean, we can do some really cool stuff
00:23:13.390 --> 00:23:18.190 Dana Ackley: right behind our forehead is what's called the prefrontal cortex, and its job
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.569 Dana Ackley: is to integrate logic and emotion
00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:26.690 Dana Ackley: in our culture. We teach logic, we don't teach emotional skills.
00:23:27.170 --> 00:23:31.879 Dana Ackley: And so that puts the prefrontal cortex at something of a disadvantage.
00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:40.819 Dana Ackley: Further, it isn't the 1st part of our brain that reacts to a situation because it has to handle more complex data.
00:23:42.650 --> 00:23:49.240 Dana Ackley: You, Mira, sometime today and me, too, are probably gonna have a little bit of an amygdala hijack.
00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:51.750 Dana Ackley: It just happens.
00:23:52.180 --> 00:23:55.009 Dana Ackley: And so it's really important for us
00:23:55.330 --> 00:23:59.230 Dana Ackley: to begin to learn the signs of those hijacks
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:08.920 Dana Ackley: so that we're not a slave to them. And that's 1 of the emotional intelligence skills is called emotional self-awareness. To be able to tune into ourselves.
00:24:09.010 --> 00:24:12.649 Dana Ackley: Oh, wait a minute. I'm fooling myself again.
00:24:12.890 --> 00:24:14.359 Dana Ackley: So one of the
00:24:14.710 --> 00:24:15.850 Dana Ackley: one of the
00:24:16.850 --> 00:24:21.849 Dana Ackley: stories illustrations that I use in the book is, you know, I'm a white guy.
00:24:22.490 --> 00:24:24.339 Dana Ackley: and I'm in an elevator.
00:24:24.980 --> 00:24:26.810 Dana Ackley: and 3 black men get in.
00:24:27.370 --> 00:24:31.859 Dana Ackley: My amygdala is going to go on alert simply because they look different.
00:24:31.990 --> 00:24:35.610 Dana Ackley: And in primitive times, looking different, might have signaled danger.
00:24:36.420 --> 00:24:38.510 Dana Ackley: It is my responsibility
00:24:39.100 --> 00:24:43.480 Dana Ackley: to notice the gum reaction my amygdala is having.
00:24:43.540 --> 00:24:45.219 Dana Ackley: and put a stop to it.
00:24:45.550 --> 00:24:46.790 Dana Ackley: and and
00:24:46.970 --> 00:24:54.059 Dana Ackley: look at these people as people now, if they come in waving guns, and my amygdala is on target, you know, whatever color they might be.
00:24:54.300 --> 00:25:01.140 Dana Ackley: But it's really our job to tune into. When are we? When are we having one of these fear responses
00:25:01.450 --> 00:25:04.180 Dana Ackley: that doesn't really make sense.
00:25:04.520 --> 00:25:11.854 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And if I could sort of integrate that with going backwards just a little bit, because I really like this comment about
00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:18.460 Mira Brancu: that our prefrontal cortex there its job is actually to integrate
00:25:18.830 --> 00:25:20.429 Mira Brancu: logic and emotion.
00:25:20.610 --> 00:25:21.780 Mira Brancu: And yet
00:25:22.050 --> 00:25:24.999 Mira Brancu: we are overtaught logic
00:25:25.310 --> 00:25:31.709 Mira Brancu: and undertaught, if at all, the emotion side. And so that means to me
00:25:32.070 --> 00:25:33.290 Mira Brancu: that we're
00:25:33.410 --> 00:25:36.480 Mira Brancu: basically not maximizing the potential
00:25:36.550 --> 00:25:43.950 Mira Brancu: in our brains. And instead, we're left to our own devices when we have an emotion that's not integrated
00:25:44.010 --> 00:25:56.730 Mira Brancu: completely, that we're making kind of leaps in logic that don't always make sense. But we're never questioning the assumptions, the leaps that we're making between the connections because we haven't really
00:25:57.210 --> 00:26:01.840 Mira Brancu: kind of maximize. The potential for how to integrate these 2 is that right?
00:26:01.840 --> 00:26:09.359 Dana Ackley: That's really well put, and it leads us to the word rationalization.
00:26:10.310 --> 00:26:12.910 Dana Ackley: So the cortex is the master of logic.
00:26:13.470 --> 00:26:15.870 Dana Ackley: but it may not be the master of reality.
00:26:16.050 --> 00:26:16.630 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:26:16.630 --> 00:26:24.829 Dana Ackley: So. So we are masters at rationalizing, and one of the illustrations, and that's not a danger thing.
00:26:24.980 --> 00:26:27.060 Dana Ackley: But the young man
00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:30.059 Dana Ackley: wants to go buy the beautiful red convertible.
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:37.010 Dana Ackley: and it's way out of his price range. But he rationalizes. Well, I'm gonna get a I'm gonna get a raise next month.
00:26:37.030 --> 00:26:42.029 Dana Ackley: and you know the kids won't mind riding in the backseat of a 2 door
00:26:42.340 --> 00:26:43.070 Dana Ackley: car.
00:26:44.180 --> 00:26:49.379 Dana Ackley: And so he feeds himself. All of this logical stuff.
00:26:49.600 --> 00:26:53.329 Dana Ackley: based on lucky word assumptions based on assumptions.
00:26:53.370 --> 00:26:57.110 Dana Ackley: Without fully looking at his entire situation.
00:26:57.830 --> 00:26:59.810 Mira Brancu: I love this
00:27:00.250 --> 00:27:02.780 Mira Brancu: comment. I just, I'm gonna repeat it again.
00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:05.860 Mira Brancu: because I really want people to hold on to this.
00:27:06.360 --> 00:27:10.200 Mira Brancu: We are our prefrontal cortex is a master of logic.
00:27:10.510 --> 00:27:14.140 Mira Brancu: but not necessarily a mask of reality.
00:27:15.620 --> 00:27:17.739 Dana Ackley: I just made that up.
00:27:17.750 --> 00:27:19.493 Mira Brancu: I love it so.
00:27:20.170 --> 00:27:24.510 Dana Ackley: But it's our cortex, not our prefrontal cortex. I know you know better. But for the listeners, yeah.
00:27:24.510 --> 00:27:25.290 Mira Brancu: Thank you.
00:27:25.410 --> 00:27:29.140 Mira Brancu: So now, taking all of this.
00:27:30.540 --> 00:27:39.440 Mira Brancu: how? How do? What does Eq. Do? What does Eq. Training do? What? What is emotional intelligence. And how can we apply it
00:27:39.590 --> 00:27:45.380 Mira Brancu: to managing and navigating these complex situations that we'd rather just like, simplify.
00:27:46.520 --> 00:27:51.900 Dana Ackley: we want to. Well, let me let me take a a detour. But we do want to simplify them.
00:27:52.090 --> 00:27:55.789 Dana Ackley: because the brain always wants to reduce our anxiety.
00:27:56.500 --> 00:28:01.719 Dana Ackley: The brain uses glucose for fuel.
00:28:01.790 --> 00:28:06.810 Dana Ackley: and anxiety means that the brain has to use more of it, and the brain is busy doing all sorts of stuff.
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.215 Dana Ackley: and and so
00:28:09.870 --> 00:28:20.830 Dana Ackley: The brain will use the rationalization to reduce anxiety, to reduce anxiety and and make and make to follow up on your point to make the world seem simpler
00:28:21.170 --> 00:28:24.350 Dana Ackley: than it is. Complexity is a little scary.
00:28:25.940 --> 00:28:29.059 Dana Ackley: Haven't gone on that tangent. I've lost track of your question.
00:28:29.060 --> 00:28:32.639 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's let's leave off there.
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:33.070 Dana Ackley: Okay.
00:28:33.070 --> 00:28:42.600 Mira Brancu: My question will require a little bit more focus and time. So before we get to the ad break, I just sort of sort of want to pull all of this together, that
00:28:43.330 --> 00:28:44.320 Mira Brancu: if
00:28:45.302 --> 00:28:46.720 Mira Brancu: we're trying to
00:28:46.760 --> 00:28:49.250 Mira Brancu: calm our nerves, our anxiety
00:28:49.320 --> 00:28:55.050 Mira Brancu: in the middle of a situation that our brain is interpreting as dangerous.
00:28:55.450 --> 00:28:59.299 Mira Brancu: And if we're in a world of high complexity which we are.
00:28:59.300 --> 00:28:59.720 Dana Ackley: With.
00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:02.779 Mira Brancu: Lots of uncertainty which causes lots of anxiety
00:29:02.790 --> 00:29:20.279 Mira Brancu: that's exhausting to our brain, and the easiest path of least resistance is just to simplify and say they're bad. That's good. I'm going to stay safe here with these people, but not those people, and that
00:29:20.380 --> 00:29:24.280 Mira Brancu: is part of our current human conundrum.
00:29:24.570 --> 00:29:25.910 Dana Ackley: Beautiful. I put
00:29:26.070 --> 00:29:27.260 Dana Ackley: absolutely right.
00:29:27.260 --> 00:29:31.750 Mira Brancu: When we come back. Let's talk through. Then. What? What.
00:29:31.750 --> 00:29:32.130 Dana Ackley: Okay.
00:29:32.130 --> 00:29:45.899 Mira Brancu: Emotional intelligence. And how do we apply it to that conundrum? You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and our guest today, Dr. Dana Ackley, author of a little book to save humanity, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:31:47.040 --> 00:31:52.700 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Dana Ackley.
00:31:52.730 --> 00:31:56.279 Mira Brancu: who is the author of a little book to save humanity
00:31:56.350 --> 00:32:12.119 Mira Brancu: and we've been talking about conflict entrepreneurs. We've been talking about how our brains are trying so hard to make sense of this complex, exhausting, uncertain world by oversimplifying to the point where
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:22.740 Mira Brancu: we're shutting people out and creating divisiveness unnecessarily or paying too much attention to people who are capitalizing on that
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:39.349 Mira Brancu: one brain weakness that we have. And I want to. Sort of go into this next part around. What do we do with how we solve this problem through emotional intelligence by using kind of just an example that comes up so often now.
00:32:39.540 --> 00:32:43.630 Mira Brancu: And I feel like more often than ever before in the clients that I see.
00:32:43.900 --> 00:32:47.030 Mira Brancu: and that is that
00:32:47.150 --> 00:33:11.860 Mira Brancu: there's more and more conflict. Because they've been under more and more stress, and they're pointing fingers, and they're blaming each other. And they are saying, well, that group of people. you know, those folks in that department. And then sort of blanket statement, blanket statement and they truly feel
00:33:12.560 --> 00:33:18.749 Mira Brancu: that those people over there have harmed them, hurt them not heard them, whatever that is
00:33:19.679 --> 00:33:20.529 Mira Brancu: and
00:33:20.620 --> 00:33:24.029 Mira Brancu: it feels like untenable.
00:33:24.873 --> 00:33:27.769 Mira Brancu: And and so I'm curious, just like
00:33:29.350 --> 00:33:35.190 Mira Brancu: when you're hearing that when you're thinking about even how to help groups of people in that situation.
00:33:35.570 --> 00:33:38.889 Mira Brancu: How do we think about it? Through an emotional intelligence lens.
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:49.719 Dana Ackley: Well, I've been like you. I've been in those situations and help those groups come together because they're they're undermining the whole company by blaming each other.
00:33:50.230 --> 00:33:55.970 Dana Ackley: And so part of it is really quite simple. We help them get to know each other as people.
00:33:57.030 --> 00:33:57.710 Dana Ackley: and.
00:33:57.710 --> 00:33:58.620 Mira Brancu: Simple.
00:34:01.630 --> 00:34:05.509 Dana Ackley: Well, first, st we have to get them motivated. That's the hard part. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:06.050 --> 00:34:08.429 Dana Ackley: But but if we can help people
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:10.430 Dana Ackley: start to get acquainted.
00:34:10.570 --> 00:34:16.640 Dana Ackley: They discover all of a sudden that they aren't. Those others are not the monsters that they imagine.
00:34:17.290 --> 00:34:18.510 Dana Ackley: And so
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:23.939 Dana Ackley: so what Eq skills might be involved in that kind of a process.
00:34:24.190 --> 00:34:27.040 Dana Ackley: Well, again, emotional self awareness is something.
00:34:27.100 --> 00:34:31.549 Dana Ackley: How am I feeling about this person in this other department?
00:34:31.610 --> 00:34:32.400 Dana Ackley: And
00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:36.329 Dana Ackley: am I overreacting.
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:41.189 Dana Ackley: So I'm if I'm furious with them, maybe annoyance would be enough.
00:34:41.510 --> 00:34:44.159 Dana Ackley: So just just calm things down.
00:34:44.340 --> 00:34:46.420 Dana Ackley: and another would be empathy.
00:34:46.820 --> 00:34:48.839 Dana Ackley: I wonder what those people are feeling.
00:34:49.030 --> 00:34:56.509 Dana Ackley: I wonder what the world looks like through their eyes. And to be clear, empathy does not mean you agree with the person.
00:34:56.630 --> 00:35:05.570 Dana Ackley: and so many people get caught up on that. A lot of clients think, but you know, are skitties of empathy empathy, because they think well, then, I have to agree with them. You don't
00:35:06.666 --> 00:35:09.350 Dana Ackley: and so getting getting to
00:35:09.530 --> 00:35:13.060 Dana Ackley: know what the world looks like to other people.
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:17.790 Dana Ackley: Reality testing is yet another Eq. Skill.
00:35:18.120 --> 00:35:32.929 Dana Ackley: I have an impression, Mira, of what you're experiencing right now. But I could be wrong. So reality testing would involve me asking questions. Did you really mean you folks to undermine our ability to produce the report that our boss.
00:35:32.950 --> 00:35:35.230 Dana Ackley: our mutual boss, needed.
00:35:37.610 --> 00:35:41.260 Dana Ackley: I had this. I had this wonderful experience. One of my clients.
00:35:43.070 --> 00:35:48.099 Dana Ackley: He and his peer reported to the same guy, and they were undermining each other all the time.
00:35:48.470 --> 00:35:51.770 Dana Ackley: so my client asked me to bring them together.
00:35:51.930 --> 00:35:58.024 Dana Ackley: and and to work just one on one with each other. So I interviewed the other guy. He was game for it, and and we had this.
00:35:58.340 --> 00:36:04.959 Dana Ackley: we. We helped them understand each other. I don't know that they liked each other any better, but they we helped them understand each other.
00:36:05.410 --> 00:36:08.329 Dana Ackley: and then they did the bravest thing in the world.
00:36:08.700 --> 00:36:17.169 Dana Ackley: They brought an all hands meeting. There were a hundred people in the room, and they each stood up and took responsibility for how they had undermined the other. Oh, I.
00:36:17.520 --> 00:36:18.090 Mira Brancu: Wow!
00:36:19.062 --> 00:36:20.508 Dana Ackley: Now that's courage!
00:36:20.990 --> 00:36:22.450 Mira Brancu: That's incredible.
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:25.379 Dana Ackley: And so part of that
00:36:25.720 --> 00:36:28.749 Dana Ackley: is, they had to have enough self regard
00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:31.300 Dana Ackley: to tolerate the criticism.
00:36:32.391 --> 00:36:38.710 Dana Ackley: They had to have enough assertiveness to let the other know how my toes were getting stepped on.
00:36:39.295 --> 00:36:43.389 Dana Ackley: Without taking them apart. Assertiveness is not just another
00:36:44.690 --> 00:36:47.749 Dana Ackley: word for for aggression.
00:36:47.930 --> 00:36:49.580 Dana Ackley: It really is.
00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:55.480 Dana Ackley: I want to communicate to you in a way that leaves you feeling safe, and that leaves me
00:36:55.680 --> 00:37:00.020 Dana Ackley: feeling safe. Then we can have prefrontal cortex discussions.
00:37:02.720 --> 00:37:09.139 Dana Ackley: so if if to move from that example, I think about leaders, and I know that a lot of your
00:37:09.750 --> 00:37:15.550 Dana Ackley: listeners are and our leaders, and and I think of well, they have nearly impossible jobs.
00:37:16.030 --> 00:37:18.030 Dana Ackley: Just here's a few items
00:37:18.150 --> 00:37:20.660 Dana Ackley: from from a job description.
00:37:21.250 --> 00:37:23.409 Dana Ackley: Leaders have to align. People
00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:29.529 Dana Ackley: who have different ideas and skills took and make them, and not make them, but lead them to a common purpose.
00:37:30.070 --> 00:37:37.260 Dana Ackley: They have to know how to select the right people, so they have to know how to read others and and whether they're going to be a good fit or not.
00:37:37.620 --> 00:37:42.919 Dana Ackley: They have to recognize people when those people are successful. Praise them
00:37:43.080 --> 00:37:46.640 Dana Ackley: and let them know they're being successful. They have to inspire.
00:37:46.750 --> 00:37:52.920 Dana Ackley: I mean, they have to understand organizations. I mean, they're just this whole list leaders. I have really tough jobs.
00:37:53.070 --> 00:37:55.420 Dana Ackley: And that's why emotional intelligence can help.
00:37:56.220 --> 00:37:57.273 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:02.885 Mira Brancu: 1st of all, disclaimer here, I took Dana's course on this.
00:38:03.570 --> 00:38:07.009 Mira Brancu: and I'm I'm trying to remember how many
00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:13.148 Mira Brancu: different kinds of skills are within. The Eq. Leader
00:38:14.110 --> 00:38:15.940 Dana Ackley: There. There are 16 skills.
00:38:15.940 --> 00:38:16.580 Mira Brancu: Dean.
00:38:16.810 --> 00:38:18.829 Dana Ackley: That Maran identified.
00:38:18.830 --> 00:38:22.000 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So those 16
00:38:24.100 --> 00:38:33.989 Mira Brancu: you know one of the things that I that I read in your book that I think is kind of an important aspect here is, you don't have to have all 16 bringing it to the table in all situations.
00:38:33.990 --> 00:38:34.860 Dana Ackley: Nobody does.
00:38:35.396 --> 00:38:38.080 Mira Brancu: Yeah, that some situations require
00:38:38.160 --> 00:38:42.729 Mira Brancu: different skills. And I really like reading about in your book.
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:49.679 Mira Brancu: how? Even certain job roles the success requires different Eq. Skills.
00:38:49.680 --> 00:38:50.630 Dana Ackley: That's correct.
00:38:50.970 --> 00:38:51.800 Dana Ackley: Yeah.
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:57.179 Mira Brancu: So I'm curious when you're thinking about leaders of countries.
00:38:57.566 --> 00:38:58.279 Dana Ackley: Are there.
00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:00.290 Mira Brancu: Are there certain skills
00:39:00.380 --> 00:39:04.649 Mira Brancu: that you think are the most important out of those 16.
00:39:05.430 --> 00:39:06.580 Dana Ackley: Wow! Cop.
00:39:06.580 --> 00:39:07.340 Mira Brancu: Question.
00:39:07.340 --> 00:39:12.529 Dana Ackley: It is. I hadn't thought of that mirror. Wow! What a great question!
00:39:15.620 --> 00:39:18.379 Dana Ackley: I would just off the top of my head. Yeah.
00:39:18.700 --> 00:39:20.659 Dana Ackley: one would be self-regard.
00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:24.839 Dana Ackley: Now we're not talking about narcissism.
00:39:25.070 --> 00:39:31.190 Dana Ackley: We're talking about self-regard, and that's important. Because if you're a leader of a country or a business.
00:39:31.410 --> 00:39:33.069 Dana Ackley: you're going to catch heat.
00:39:33.690 --> 00:39:38.259 Dana Ackley: People aren't gonna like everything that you do, and your self regard has to
00:39:39.240 --> 00:39:41.090 Dana Ackley: be strong enough
00:39:41.490 --> 00:39:44.230 Dana Ackley: to not fall apart when you hear the criticism.
00:39:45.310 --> 00:39:46.140 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:39:46.140 --> 00:39:50.910 Dana Ackley: Another. One might be self actualization, which is really am IA learner?
00:39:51.414 --> 00:39:57.709 Dana Ackley: Leaders have to be learners, and the jobs are just too complex, and the world is changing all the time.
00:40:00.870 --> 00:40:04.690 Dana Ackley: emotional self awareness will be important, because
00:40:06.200 --> 00:40:08.519 Dana Ackley: under the pressure of
00:40:08.830 --> 00:40:11.019 Dana Ackley: what other people want from me.
00:40:11.943 --> 00:40:16.380 Dana Ackley: are my decisions true to what I think and feel
00:40:16.560 --> 00:40:20.129 Dana Ackley: is, what are my values? What do I really care about?
00:40:22.310 --> 00:40:28.250 Dana Ackley: Optimism is another one, and optimism is not just glass half full. Ain't the world cool?
00:40:29.100 --> 00:40:32.060 Dana Ackley: Optimism is another word for resilience.
00:40:32.720 --> 00:40:35.949 Dana Ackley: Things go wrong. The world goes to hell at times.
00:40:36.230 --> 00:40:37.620 Dana Ackley: How quickly
00:40:37.820 --> 00:40:39.490 Dana Ackley: can I bounce back
00:40:39.610 --> 00:40:47.090 Dana Ackley: from when things are a problem and find constructive prefrontal cortex driven solutions?
00:40:47.390 --> 00:40:49.009 Dana Ackley: So those are just some off the top.
00:40:49.010 --> 00:40:56.330 Mira Brancu: Those are awesome. Those are really good. And I hadn't thought about optimism. But I really like that one in that. I feel like we need
00:40:57.033 --> 00:41:00.699 Mira Brancu: more of that. As we're feeling
00:41:01.545 --> 00:41:06.865 Mira Brancu: the device divisiveness, or worrying so much about
00:41:07.630 --> 00:41:18.790 Mira Brancu: you know various national crises or disasters. Seeing somebody role model. Resiliency helps us be able to do the same.
00:41:19.210 --> 00:41:19.660 Dana Ackley: That's right.
00:41:19.660 --> 00:41:21.730 Mira Brancu: Say, okay, I can do this too.
00:41:22.166 --> 00:41:26.020 Mira Brancu: One of the other things that I'm I was intrigued by your book.
00:41:26.852 --> 00:41:29.810 Mira Brancu: Talks about empathy, as having 2 parts.
00:41:30.680 --> 00:41:37.669 Mira Brancu: And I never thought about this. But you wrote empathy has 2 parts, caring about what others feel.
00:41:38.310 --> 00:41:41.719 Mira Brancu: and reading those feelings accurately.
00:41:42.370 --> 00:41:46.969 Mira Brancu: So I've been thinking a lot about this in the context of some of my work.
00:41:47.140 --> 00:41:49.749 Mira Brancu: and I've worked with some folks who have had
00:41:49.820 --> 00:41:53.199 Mira Brancu: such a focus on their own fear.
00:41:53.250 --> 00:41:56.110 Mira Brancu: protection, defensiveness.
00:41:56.110 --> 00:41:56.580 Dana Ackley: Respond.
00:41:56.580 --> 00:41:57.280 Mira Brancu: Once
00:41:57.400 --> 00:41:59.919 Mira Brancu: that I couldn't get them
00:41:59.960 --> 00:42:06.290 Mira Brancu: to empathize with someone. They've helped hurt them, but they might have hurt also.
00:42:06.290 --> 00:42:07.140 Dana Ackley: That's right.
00:42:07.735 --> 00:42:14.990 Mira Brancu: They couldn't empathize. And so I I see this often today. And I'm curious. How do you help people get beyond the hurt
00:42:15.090 --> 00:42:16.539 Mira Brancu: and into empathy?
00:42:18.500 --> 00:42:21.360 Dana Ackley: Anxiety. High anxiety makes us very self-centered.
00:42:22.650 --> 00:42:28.900 Dana Ackley: Pain makes it self-centered. One day I smashed my thumb with a hammer. I wasn't caring about anybody else at that moment
00:42:28.940 --> 00:42:30.890 Dana Ackley: all I cared about was my thumb.
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:35.420 Dana Ackley: and and so high anxiety does the does the same thing.
00:42:35.470 --> 00:42:41.770 Dana Ackley: so your instinct of of helping them begin to think about others is good, but if they're not ready for that.
00:42:41.830 --> 00:42:43.789 Dana Ackley: then we as coaches
00:42:43.910 --> 00:42:46.410 Dana Ackley: or as friends.
00:42:47.606 --> 00:42:49.059 Dana Ackley: need to
00:42:49.646 --> 00:42:53.299 Dana Ackley: empathize with them and hear their anxiety, because
00:42:53.540 --> 00:42:56.639 Dana Ackley: once somebody actually feels heard
00:42:56.840 --> 00:42:59.090 Dana Ackley: they can stop sending the message.
00:42:59.740 --> 00:43:04.479 Dana Ackley: They can begin then to move on to to the next thing.
00:43:04.830 --> 00:43:11.160 Dana Ackley: and and that's why empathy can be so important for folks with high anxiety, and then
00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:15.690 Dana Ackley: they can use that with other people to move the conversation along.
00:43:16.070 --> 00:43:16.700 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:43:16.950 --> 00:43:20.480 Mira Brancu: And I, you know, I think I'd like to connect that back to
00:43:20.570 --> 00:43:22.449 Mira Brancu: what you said about
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:24.880 Mira Brancu: just
00:43:25.764 --> 00:43:34.129 Mira Brancu: bringing people together and helping them hear each other's experiences and stories. I know that sounds simple, but.
00:43:34.900 --> 00:43:35.530 Dana Ackley: Card.
00:43:35.530 --> 00:43:40.760 Mira Brancu: A long, long time ago I did that. I wrote this paper right after 9, 11.
00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:41.170 Dana Ackley: You know.
00:43:41.170 --> 00:43:46.858 Mira Brancu: And it was in response to the increased
00:43:47.520 --> 00:43:53.379 Mira Brancu: negative reactions, discrimination, racial intolerance of Muslims on college campuses sure.
00:43:53.560 --> 00:43:59.049 Mira Brancu: And we see that constantly whenever you have a you know national crises like at that scale.
00:43:59.490 --> 00:44:08.169 Mira Brancu: That people again, self, protective mode, anxiety, mode. Let me, you know. Simplify this by blaming one group of people, etc, etc. We've been talking.
00:44:08.170 --> 00:44:10.350 Dana Ackley: Then I can predict what's gonna happen.
00:44:10.350 --> 00:44:29.229 Mira Brancu: That's right. Then I can control. I can predict. And what and and I wrote about the research that was done by my Supervisor, Dr. Bill Sadlasek, who was at the University of Maryland at that time. He wrote a lot about like campus culture and things like that, and one of the things that
00:44:29.270 --> 00:44:34.550 Mira Brancu: he he talked about pulling from other research is contact exposure
00:44:34.780 --> 00:44:45.929 Mira Brancu: just being able to. And he had all of our, you know, his students, including me, just find people who are different on campus, talk to them, get to know them, and find ways that we relate to each other.
00:44:46.200 --> 00:44:51.320 Mira Brancu: and it decreases our anxiety, and that has been found to decrease.
00:44:51.530 --> 00:44:59.809 Mira Brancu: worry, anxiety about people who are different from us, especially if we fear them, is contact exposure. And that's a lot of what you're speaking to. What does it take
00:44:59.830 --> 00:45:12.239 Mira Brancu: to get to that point where you're doing the contact exposure plus adding another element of sort of interpreting and enhancing our relationships with each other.
00:45:13.270 --> 00:45:23.309 Dana Ackley: And so maybe when we get back from the break we can turn from leadership to. I know that to maybe some of the that normal life that people are dealing with.
00:45:23.310 --> 00:45:32.399 Mira Brancu: Absolutely, absolutely. So Dana's tracking that we are reaching an ad break. You're listening to the hard skills, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:47:39.170 --> 00:47:47.490 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Dana Ackley, author of a little book to save humanity.
00:47:47.770 --> 00:47:56.439 Mira Brancu: Okay, Dana, so let's pull all of this together. We've been talking a lot about emotional intelligence and how to apply it in different settings.
00:47:56.710 --> 00:48:00.030 Mira Brancu: How do we now like? Look at the big picture here.
00:48:00.780 --> 00:48:06.749 Dana Ackley: So one of the point I want to make is that the book doesn't ask people
00:48:07.100 --> 00:48:12.009 Dana Ackley: to go start big organizations to go start a big movement.
00:48:14.180 --> 00:48:15.810 Dana Ackley: It is incredible.
00:48:15.850 --> 00:48:17.450 Dana Ackley: The ripple effect
00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:22.709 Dana Ackley: of how we treat each other impacts other people.
00:48:23.470 --> 00:48:28.520 Dana Ackley: A word of kindness to somebody, a word of encouragement to somebody.
00:48:28.700 --> 00:48:30.939 Dana Ackley: ripples to that person
00:48:31.030 --> 00:48:38.390 Dana Ackley: and goes goes out to other people whom they are going to interact with during the day.
00:48:41.050 --> 00:48:45.779 Dana Ackley: In unpredictable ways we are connected to people
00:48:46.100 --> 00:48:49.340 Dana Ackley: in ways that we really can't always see
00:48:51.730 --> 00:48:52.760 Dana Ackley: So
00:48:53.020 --> 00:48:57.159 Dana Ackley: that's my hope is that as people read the book
00:48:57.630 --> 00:48:59.669 Dana Ackley: and learn about the skills.
00:48:59.960 --> 00:49:10.802 Dana Ackley: And then and then it's a little book. It's it's a 104 pages. I think it's gonna be printed later this week, and
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:13.180 Dana Ackley: and then we would.
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:16.820 Dana Ackley: But I also have available on my website
00:49:17.040 --> 00:49:21.829 Dana Ackley: is exercises people can use to build any skill that they want.
00:49:21.990 --> 00:49:27.549 Dana Ackley: So this is not a book that just says, Hey, you ought to go. Be assertive, but it can lead to a way
00:49:27.600 --> 00:49:38.080 Dana Ackley: to if you decide that you're a court low on assertiveness. That's a solvable problem. All of these skills are learnable. We just need to have the will to teach them.
00:49:38.790 --> 00:49:40.790 Dana Ackley: And I think that
00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:43.369 Dana Ackley: as the 86% of us
00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:51.319 Dana Ackley: who are willing to listen, who are willing to relate, who are willing to see the good in other people
00:49:53.250 --> 00:49:54.649 Dana Ackley: who are not perfect.
00:49:56.230 --> 00:50:04.760 Dana Ackley: Then then I think that can that in and of itself begins to take the microphone away from the conflict. Entrepreneurs.
00:50:05.650 --> 00:50:06.360 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:50:06.750 --> 00:50:14.950 Mira Brancu: yeah, I I love that. And the thing that that's resonating for me most is that ripple effect. It's something that when I
00:50:15.030 --> 00:50:17.100 Mira Brancu: started my own company.
00:50:17.250 --> 00:50:22.300 Mira Brancu: I it it is what I wanted to have as a social impact company
00:50:22.690 --> 00:50:27.600 Mira Brancu: is not a conflict entrepreneurship. It's a social entrepreneurship.
00:50:27.600 --> 00:50:29.459 Dana Ackley: Beautiful, yes, yes.
00:50:29.690 --> 00:50:33.600 Mira Brancu: And the social entrepreneurship piece of that company is that
00:50:34.930 --> 00:50:38.520 Mira Brancu: I wanted to create a community around me.
00:50:38.937 --> 00:50:53.939 Mira Brancu: Of people who could have that ripple effect. So I know I have my sphere of influence to. You know a certain number of people. I only have so much I can impact. Right? That I feel like a direct connection.
00:50:54.536 --> 00:50:55.709 Mira Brancu: Could happen.
00:50:55.870 --> 00:51:05.670 Mira Brancu: But I know through them. They have their spheres of influence, and that is what makes a difference. Is that sort of ripple effect that you're you're describing. And it.
00:51:05.680 --> 00:51:11.259 Mira Brancu: It's like you said Super. Simple things like
00:51:11.410 --> 00:51:12.810 Mira Brancu: taking a breath
00:51:13.070 --> 00:51:14.939 Mira Brancu: and questioning your reaction.
00:51:15.500 --> 00:51:17.040 Mira Brancu: I'm saying, thank you.
00:51:17.240 --> 00:51:17.660 Dana Ackley: And.
00:51:17.660 --> 00:51:21.199 Mira Brancu: Maybe an act of kindness or a comment of kindness.
00:51:21.720 --> 00:51:22.270 Mira Brancu: right.
00:51:22.270 --> 00:51:23.760 Dana Ackley: That's exactly right.
00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:28.570 Mira Brancu: Right or a questioning like, did you? Did you mean to say that? And.
00:51:28.570 --> 00:51:29.020 Dana Ackley: Yes.
00:51:29.020 --> 00:51:30.030 Mira Brancu: A chance.
00:51:30.030 --> 00:51:31.120 Dana Ackley: Yes.
00:51:31.120 --> 00:51:32.979 Mira Brancu: Just stop for a moment.
00:51:33.980 --> 00:51:35.020 Dana Ackley: And and
00:51:35.190 --> 00:51:39.650 Dana Ackley: when we hear all of the crap that we hear on the news today.
00:51:40.180 --> 00:51:43.749 Dana Ackley: it sounds like everybody in the world is just awful.
00:51:44.290 --> 00:51:50.999 Dana Ackley: But there is a wonderful book, another book, not mine, called called Human Kindness.
00:51:51.710 --> 00:51:56.999 Dana Ackley: and it's and it gives so much information about the reality is.
00:51:57.070 --> 00:52:08.579 Dana Ackley: people are really kind. Now, on the news tonight we'll probably hear about how somebody murdered somebody. We will not hear that 330 million people actually went about their business and were kind to each other today.
00:52:10.210 --> 00:52:10.890 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:52:11.590 --> 00:52:13.480 Mira Brancu: I want to hear that news. Yeah.
00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:14.580 Dana Ackley: All right.
00:52:15.130 --> 00:52:16.719 Mira Brancu: I subscribe Dana.
00:52:16.720 --> 00:52:18.980 Dana Ackley: Exactly. Where's your name?
00:52:18.980 --> 00:52:19.686 Mira Brancu: Letter coming.
00:52:22.453 --> 00:52:29.440 Mira Brancu: You mentioned on your website. So I'm gonna for those of you who are watching, either now or are able to watch later.
00:52:29.985 --> 00:52:34.769 Mira Brancu: I'm gonna share your website and just also describe E.
00:52:34.770 --> 00:52:35.050 Dana Ackley: Oh!
00:52:35.050 --> 00:52:38.709 Mira Brancu: You leader.net as well as.
00:52:38.710 --> 00:52:39.899 Dana Ackley: That's the one I want them to go.
00:52:39.900 --> 00:52:40.300 Mira Brancu: Okay.
00:52:40.300 --> 00:52:40.740 Dana Ackley: Yeah.
00:52:40.740 --> 00:52:41.020 Mira Brancu: No.
00:52:41.020 --> 00:52:42.579 Dana Ackley: This is the book website.
00:52:42.580 --> 00:52:49.809 Mira Brancu: Okay, the Eq. Press all one word, the eqpress.com. And what can they find there?
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:53.280 Dana Ackley: Well, they're going to find an opportunity to pre-order the book.
00:52:53.820 --> 00:52:55.550 Dana Ackley: So it's ready for pre-order
00:52:56.012 --> 00:53:03.270 Dana Ackley: and, as I say, the book should be printed sometime later this week, and and then it'll start going out
00:53:03.830 --> 00:53:08.329 Dana Ackley: within the next couple of weeks. You'll see up
00:53:08.795 --> 00:53:13.999 Dana Ackley: we haven't got it up there yet, but we're gonna have access for people to get
00:53:14.030 --> 00:53:20.989 Dana Ackley: exercises to build these various skills at the at the end of the book there is a self assessment process.
00:53:21.210 --> 00:53:29.580 Dana Ackley: so I can't interview everybody who reads the book. So what I've what I've done is putting up put in questions that people can ask themselves
00:53:29.630 --> 00:53:36.210 Dana Ackley: that will give them a good feeling for, hey, this is this empathy stuff I'm really pretty good at, but
00:53:36.420 --> 00:53:41.760 Dana Ackley: assertiveness not so much so. I think that's what I would would like to go work on.
00:53:41.810 --> 00:53:49.939 Dana Ackley: and then each. So there's a group of exercises for each of the 16 skills. We didn't put it in the book, because then it wouldn't have been a little book it would have been a great big book.
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:55.650 Dana Ackley: and this way people only have to get the exercises that they want that are relevant to them.
00:53:55.840 --> 00:54:02.079 Dana Ackley: Each group has 10 to 15 or 16 different exercises.
00:54:02.160 --> 00:54:03.800 Dana Ackley: and you don't do them all.
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:09.919 Dana Ackley: If you're doing assertiveness, you pick the ones that really fit your particular situation.
00:54:11.845 --> 00:54:14.600 Mira Brancu: That reminds me of those books. Pick your own adventure.
00:54:14.600 --> 00:54:17.999 Dana Ackley: There you go. I hadn't thought of that.
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:22.899 Mira Brancu: To love those books. This is it. This is your pick, your own adventure about how to save humanity.
00:54:22.900 --> 00:54:24.619 Dana Ackley: There we go. Yes.
00:54:26.240 --> 00:54:32.209 Mira Brancu: So as we close out, what is one thing that you would like people to take away from today? Dana.
00:54:32.210 --> 00:54:34.592 Dana Ackley: You mean other than buying the oh, right
00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:37.930 Dana Ackley: I want them to take away
00:54:38.870 --> 00:54:44.450 Dana Ackley: that we can all contribute to helping the human species mature.
00:54:44.950 --> 00:54:47.519 Dana Ackley: we can contribute to that evolution
00:54:47.570 --> 00:54:52.409 Dana Ackley: and solve the very complex, difficult problems that we face.
00:54:53.370 --> 00:55:07.309 Mira Brancu: I love it, and my takeaway is we have not maximized the potential of our brain here by not integrating emotion and logic. This is your opportunity to start integrating and maximizing your potential people. So
00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:24.179 Mira Brancu: what did you take away audience? And what more importantly, what is one small change that you can implement this week, based on what you learned from Dana. Dana would like the one small change to be by his book. But, in addition, what is an additional small change that you can implement today? Share it with us on Linkedin.
00:55:24.544 --> 00:55:30.390 Mira Brancu: at Dana Ackley, or at Mira Branco and@talkradio.nyc, so we can cheer you on
00:55:30.620 --> 00:55:43.360 Mira Brancu: talk. Radio is also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, twitch, apple, spotify Amazon podcasts all over the place on the podcast help us increase our visibility, reach and impact by leaving a review.
00:55:43.650 --> 00:56:01.069 Mira Brancu: And the stuff that we talk about on the show is part of our research based strategic leadership, pathway, roadmap that we teach in our towerscope leadership Academy, a private coaching and learning community for socially conscious leaders in disrupted learning and innovation industries, looking to make a greater impact.
00:56:01.190 --> 00:56:05.839 Mira Brancu: to learn more. You can check us out@gotowerscope.com.
00:56:06.610 --> 00:56:11.910 Mira Brancu: and just so that you are looking for this. We do have
00:56:11.930 --> 00:56:15.320 Mira Brancu: a 1 day workshop coming up
00:56:15.850 --> 00:56:20.879 Mira Brancu: that is going to be an impact day to get ready for 2025 to be the best leader yet.
00:56:20.980 --> 00:56:25.839 Mira Brancu: So please look for that. Thank you to talkradio dot Nyc. For hosting.
00:56:25.900 --> 00:56:32.169 Mira Brancu: I'm Dr. Mira Branku, your host of the Hard Skills show and thank you for joining us today, Dana. This was fantastic.
00:56:32.170 --> 00:56:35.699 Dana Ackley: Oh, well, thanks for having me. I've really enjoyed our our conversation.
00:56:35.950 --> 00:56:41.810 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Thank you. Everybody have a great rest of your day. Wherever you're tuning in from bye.
00:56:42.200 --> 00:56:42.970 Dana Ackley: Bye.
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