Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
Do you get stage-fright, performance anxiety, or tongue tied whenever you need to deliver a presentation, whether on a large stage or even in a meeting? Do you get stage-fright, performance anxiety, or tongue-tied whenever you need to deliver a presentation, whether on a large stage or even in a meeting? Are you so worried about your audience’s reaction that you over-prepare and read from the slides for fear it will go off the rails if you don’t? Or under-prepare and then kick yourself for not being fully ready for the questions? We will address these challenges in this episode.
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WHAT YOU WILL LEARN:
In this episode, we'll tackle questions such as:
- How can we present in a way that connects, inspires, and leads to greater impact?
- How can we feel both more prepared to deliver an impactful speech or response while also enjoying the moment more fully?
- How can we present in a way that connects, inspires, and leads to greater impact?
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Chris Rawden is a performance coach to global leaders and teams committed to authenticity to strengthen relationships, tap their full potential and drive new results. With over 20 years as European Regional Director of a top 10 global accounting network, Chris facilitated a transition from a top-down leadership model to one of bottom-up engagement, giving members a voice and ensuring diverse interests were understood and nurtured for the success of the group. As an accomplished musician and performer, Chris uses his performing skills to empower corporate leaders with confidence on stage as presenters and in how they empower their teams. Allied to this, Chris' language skills, long professional experience outside his home culture, expertise in listening through supervised study of mediation and coaching, enable him to empower leaders to be more confident, face conflict situations with the tools to peaceful resolution, and step beyond the confines of their current modus operandi to take new ground in what's important for them.
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IF YOU ENJOYED THIS EPISODE, CAN I ASK A FAVOR?
We do not receive any funding or sponsorship for this podcast. If you learned something and feel others could also benefit, please leave a positive review. Every review helps amplify our work and visibility. This is especially helpful for small women-owned boot-strapped businesses. Simply go to the bottom of the Apple Podcast page to enter a review. Thank you!
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LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
Guest LinkedIn Profile: @ChrisRawden
Guest Website: https://liveyourperformance.com;
Our website: www.gotowerscope.com
Performance; Connection; ShiftYourFocus; OwnTheMoment; BeInTheMoment; StrengthInSurrendering; #TheHardSkills #GreaterImpact
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
00:00:51.850 --> 00:01:05.810 Mira Brancu: Hi! It's Dr. Mira Branco, host of the hard skills. And today we're talking with Guest expert, Christopher Rawden, who will help us prepare to deliver that high stakes. Talk whether to your team
00:01:05.880 --> 00:01:13.809 Mira Brancu: organization or a completely unknown audience, in a way that maximizes your impact and joy and minimizes your anxiety.
00:01:13.870 --> 00:01:17.179 Mira Brancu: So a lot of us actually have
00:01:17.380 --> 00:01:22.120 Mira Brancu: stage fright. It's a normal thing. So is performance anxiety. And
00:01:22.290 --> 00:01:44.000 Mira Brancu: Chris has the skill set to help us today. And I think it is also perfect for Season five's focus on making a greater impact. Because if you cannot deliver an impactful message that is inspiring to other people. It's going to be really hard to gather people around it and to influence right? So it's a really critical skill. I'm very excited to have him here
00:01:44.060 --> 00:01:51.130 Mira Brancu: on the show, we discuss how to develop the nuanced hard skills meaning the most challenging soft skills
00:01:51.170 --> 00:01:54.289 Mira Brancu: needed to make a real impact through your leadership.
00:01:54.550 --> 00:02:12.620 Mira Brancu: I'm a leadership consulting and coaching psychologist, group and team facilitator and associate professor, a psychology today columnist, author of the Millennials guide to workplace politics and had my own leadership career before transitioning to helping teams and high achieving women navigate their leadership complexities.
00:02:12.800 --> 00:02:15.560 Mira Brancu: And before I introduce
00:02:15.660 --> 00:02:17.580 Mira Brancu: Chris formally.
00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:25.140 Mira Brancu: I want to do one more reminder that we're actively enrolling for our 10 week leadership accelerator called fuel.
00:02:25.180 --> 00:02:28.940 Mira Brancu: which stands for focused, unstoppable, empowered leadership.
00:02:28.990 --> 00:02:39.069 Mira Brancu: And it's made for high performing high achiever misfits who have a hard time with pacing and overdoing things and standing out maybe in ways that they don't want to now
00:02:39.350 --> 00:02:48.870 Mira Brancu: stand out but want to be more intentional, strategic in their next leadership role. Even if they haven't identified what that next leadership role is.
00:02:49.210 --> 00:02:55.470 Mira Brancu: we do have a few remaining spots open. You can learn more and enroll by September 19.th
00:02:55.560 --> 00:03:01.780 Mira Brancu: That's just in a few days, September 19, th by going to go towerscope.com
00:03:02.040 --> 00:03:05.970 Mira Brancu: and clicking on leadership community programs. And then fuel.
00:03:06.020 --> 00:03:17.129 Mira Brancu: We start September 23.rd I would love to have you part of this. Okay. Now, without any further ado, I'm excited to introduce our special guest today. Christopher Rodden.
00:03:17.140 --> 00:03:27.790 Mira Brancu: Chris is a performance coach who works with global leaders and teams committed to authenticity, to strengthen relationships, tapping into their full potential and driving innovation.
00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:31.480 Mira Brancu: He brings an interesting mix of over 20 years
00:03:31.630 --> 00:03:37.210 Mira Brancu: as a European regional director of a top 10 global accounting network, and
00:03:37.230 --> 00:03:40.949 Mira Brancu: as an accomplished musician and performer. Welcome
00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:43.160 Mira Brancu: and really great to have you on the show. Chris.
00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:53.740 Christopher Rawden: Well, thank you very much, Myra Mira, and it's really my pleasure to be here with you today and thank you for synthesizing so much the the elements of what we're going to be talking about today.
00:03:54.190 --> 00:04:09.250 Mira Brancu: Absolutely absolutely. And, by the way, you might notice Chris's accent. He is in the Uk. He it's 11 pm. His time. So. I'm super appreciative that he stayed up late just for us.
00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:24.629 Christopher Rawden: One of the things about working internationally is that you you do work through different time zones and you get you have to get into that. And I I did a lot of this when I traveled in my former role.
00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:30.399 Christopher Rawden: Yeah, you have to be kind of ready when you get to the other end. Whichever time zone it is.
00:04:30.900 --> 00:04:34.200 Mira Brancu: That's true. How many time zones did you
00:04:34.280 --> 00:04:37.480 Mira Brancu: typically cross in a given year?
00:04:37.780 --> 00:04:47.109 Christopher Rawden: Well, most of the work I did was within Europe. There were other other meetings where you would used to have in North America, or occasionally Latin America, and further afield.
00:04:47.110 --> 00:04:47.715 Mira Brancu: Hmm,
00:04:48.764 --> 00:04:54.540 Christopher Rawden: I certainly went around most countries of Europe, and some very frequently so.
00:04:55.030 --> 00:05:03.060 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So that sounds like, that's about a a 9 h. Shift back and forth sometimes.
00:05:03.060 --> 00:05:04.500 Christopher Rawden: Yeah, sometimes indeed.
00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:05.270 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:05:05.590 --> 00:05:12.189 Mira Brancu: yeah, yeah, and I, I think that's also an interesting aspect of your background is that
00:05:12.210 --> 00:05:19.740 Mira Brancu: it's not just your leadership experience. It's not just your musical performance background, but also because you've had a chance
00:05:20.020 --> 00:05:28.140 Mira Brancu: to see how this plays out with people from lots of different backgrounds, cultures, languages. And I'm especially curious about
00:05:28.210 --> 00:05:30.430 Mira Brancu: that as well. Like what you've
00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:42.900 Mira Brancu: learn from, you know. Are there differences, you know, in in how people different people from different cultures and backgrounds approach performance as well. So maybe let's start there. What have you learned from that?
00:05:43.900 --> 00:06:00.830 Christopher Rawden: I mean, that's a fascinating thing. I mean, if I just touch on my my former role, I mean when I started as as European, I think, executive manager as I was back then in 1,998. This was a role really to try to bring the European region together within this global network.
00:06:00.950 --> 00:06:07.779 Christopher Rawden: They haven't had a dedicated person full time to do that role before. So this was a new an experiment.
00:06:07.960 --> 00:06:10.960 Christopher Rawden: And what rapidly became quite clear to me was that
00:06:12.310 --> 00:06:15.379 Christopher Rawden: many of the European countries
00:06:15.570 --> 00:06:20.029 Christopher Rawden: were wanting to feel more close to the centre. They wanted to get more involved.
00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:27.810 Christopher Rawden: and there was a sort of tradition, I suppose, built up because in the in those days the London firm had founded the network.
00:06:27.960 --> 00:06:35.369 Christopher Rawden: So the network was, in a sense, something that for them was very natural. I suppose they probably saw it as theirs.
00:06:35.861 --> 00:06:41.209 Christopher Rawden: And the the trick was well, how do you then bring this together in such a way that people
00:06:41.570 --> 00:07:05.560 Christopher Rawden: people step up and want to contribute, but also so that the leading firm can also see that there are valuable contributions to be made from firms that are obviously much smaller in some cases than theirs. And you know you, you're really dealing with diversity in a big way. Both from the size of the businesses, the different economies, the different legal systems, the different cultures, and the languages.
00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:27.329 Christopher Rawden: And so, as you well know, I mean having an international meeting, even just with, say, 8 or 9 people, is a completely different animal than having a national meeting within your own culture, where so many of the queues are so natural, and everybody knows what to say, do and how to look. And suddenly you've got a whole group of people who are thinking.
00:07:27.470 --> 00:07:30.540 Christopher Rawden: How do I get my position across? And you know.
00:07:30.540 --> 00:07:31.210 Mira Brancu: Night.
00:07:31.210 --> 00:07:32.479 Christopher Rawden: This whole thing about
00:07:32.990 --> 00:07:39.950 Christopher Rawden: how you have a smooth way of actually dealing with things you you have. It doesn't exist until you create it, I would say.
00:07:40.030 --> 00:07:48.379 Christopher Rawden: And so you have to create a way in which people feel comfortable. They recognize where they are. They have an identity.
00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:52.910 Christopher Rawden: and I think that's what. Probably we spent a lot of time at the beginning trying to create
00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:55.330 Christopher Rawden: so that people felt
00:07:55.390 --> 00:07:56.739 Christopher Rawden: able to speak.
00:07:57.150 --> 00:08:05.330 Christopher Rawden: And you really have got to practice that skill of learning to live with differences, listening to differences, being curious about differences.
00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:11.160 Christopher Rawden: Otherwise, if you get upset about differences which can happen obviously in different settings in business.
00:08:11.760 --> 00:08:19.839 Christopher Rawden: then your choice really is well, are you validating these people, or are you invalidating them? And you know often this is done unwittingly.
00:08:20.220 --> 00:08:22.539 Christopher Rawden: But it's amazing how a small
00:08:23.850 --> 00:08:27.799 Christopher Rawden: expression of surprise can sometimes be a put down for somebody else.
00:08:28.050 --> 00:08:32.489 Christopher Rawden: And and the result is that you gradually notice that those people stopped
00:08:32.760 --> 00:08:36.720 Christopher Rawden: coming forward a little. You know that they feel more reserved about speaking.
00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:41.419 Christopher Rawden: And so the trick is, how do you? You know? How do you manage that process where
00:08:42.090 --> 00:08:45.830 Christopher Rawden: you may want to reach a combined position? You may want to even actually
00:08:46.830 --> 00:08:49.690 Christopher Rawden: gain consensus for a position you have.
00:08:50.140 --> 00:09:01.019 Christopher Rawden: but you can't simply go in and say, Well, I'm going to do it the French way, or the British way, or the the German way, and I mean you can. You can try that. But obviously it comes with risks attached.
00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:03.070 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah.
00:09:04.610 --> 00:09:06.829 Mira Brancu: Oh, gosh! I already have a million questions for you.
00:09:06.830 --> 00:09:07.710 Christopher Rawden: So.
00:09:10.340 --> 00:09:11.520 Mira Brancu: that almost
00:09:11.560 --> 00:09:13.580 Mira Brancu: means to me
00:09:14.180 --> 00:09:15.090 Mira Brancu: like.
00:09:17.030 --> 00:09:19.149 Mira Brancu: So so within a culture.
00:09:19.330 --> 00:09:20.120 Mira Brancu: right?
00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:21.850 Mira Brancu: We
00:09:22.060 --> 00:09:27.500 Mira Brancu: often develop these shortcuts to understand each other, because we sort of
00:09:27.670 --> 00:09:32.980 Mira Brancu: understand some of the variations in within culture
00:09:33.170 --> 00:09:45.159 Mira Brancu: about what people mean or their expressions on their face, or, you know, crossed hands versus an uncrossed right? And sometimes that gets us in trouble. Those leaps.
00:09:46.940 --> 00:09:56.070 Mira Brancu: that move us from. You know that that help us with the shortcuts. Also get us in trouble with making assumptions about what somebody meant. Because, you think, you know.
00:09:56.180 --> 00:10:05.962 Mira Brancu: even though that might not be what they meant in a situation like this, with people from different, completely different cultures, countries, even right?
00:10:06.790 --> 00:10:08.190 Mira Brancu: to me, that means
00:10:08.640 --> 00:10:10.800 Mira Brancu: that you have to slow down
00:10:10.870 --> 00:10:12.400 Mira Brancu: in the beginning
00:10:12.500 --> 00:10:13.530 Mira Brancu: to
00:10:13.570 --> 00:10:15.719 Mira Brancu: create like a set of
00:10:15.890 --> 00:10:20.790 Mira Brancu: norms, new norms, and rules amongst yourselves, so that you're not
00:10:22.020 --> 00:10:26.870 Mira Brancu: making assumptions that only come from your culture, but have
00:10:26.940 --> 00:10:28.840 Mira Brancu: no intention
00:10:29.190 --> 00:10:31.760 Mira Brancu: based on the other culture of being sent. Is that right?
00:10:31.940 --> 00:10:34.090 Christopher Rawden: Yeah, I mean, that's a really good point. I think
00:10:34.150 --> 00:10:38.620 Christopher Rawden: I mean, what it brings to mind is some training that I did in
00:10:38.990 --> 00:10:43.939 Christopher Rawden: mediation and emotions, understanding emotions. But I did this much later in my career.
00:10:44.180 --> 00:10:49.840 Christopher Rawden: and it was really useful to understand a bit. Things like some of the basis emotions, the
00:10:49.880 --> 00:10:55.319 Christopher Rawden: the 6 or 7 emotions that are generally considered to be common in most cultures.
00:10:56.392 --> 00:10:59.757 Christopher Rawden: You know, happiness, joy belonging
00:11:00.710 --> 00:11:02.900 Christopher Rawden: disgust, sadness.
00:11:03.140 --> 00:11:04.210 Christopher Rawden: anger.
00:11:04.610 --> 00:11:05.780 Christopher Rawden: Probably that's them.
00:11:06.040 --> 00:11:08.780 Christopher Rawden: And you know just to understand that
00:11:09.890 --> 00:11:14.089 Christopher Rawden: how those get expressed may be slightly different. But those are likely to be
00:11:14.140 --> 00:11:15.470 Christopher Rawden: fairly common
00:11:15.680 --> 00:11:19.169 Christopher Rawden: nonverbal communication. How you how you read this?
00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:23.590 Christopher Rawden: these somatic markers of behavior.
00:11:23.860 --> 00:11:26.610 Christopher Rawden: that if you get more finely tuned to.
00:11:27.790 --> 00:11:33.310 Christopher Rawden: you know, is useful to actually gauge where people are, but, more importantly, starting with yourself.
00:11:33.650 --> 00:11:36.840 Christopher Rawden: because if you don't know yourself how you're
00:11:36.970 --> 00:11:41.139 Christopher Rawden: experiencing yourself in a moment in a meeting, wherever it might be
00:11:41.150 --> 00:11:43.719 Christopher Rawden: if you don't know what emotion you're feeling.
00:11:43.870 --> 00:11:47.109 Christopher Rawden: you can often get triggered by things, and you're almost a bit.
00:11:47.500 --> 00:11:51.460 Christopher Rawden: It's a bit like being in a in a dark place where you don't really know where you are.
00:11:52.290 --> 00:11:52.670 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:11:52.670 --> 00:12:01.550 Christopher Rawden: I was going to mention actually, some of the work of Dan Siegel, who is from Ucla and is a medical professor, and has done a lot of work in
00:12:01.610 --> 00:12:03.880 Christopher Rawden: in emotions, and
00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:05.879 Christopher Rawden: how you actually can
00:12:06.160 --> 00:12:10.170 Christopher Rawden: begin to distinguish these, the value of doing this, the way the brain works.
00:12:10.780 --> 00:12:11.939 Christopher Rawden: and one of his
00:12:12.330 --> 00:12:16.090 Christopher Rawden: well known phrases is, name it to tame it.
00:12:16.790 --> 00:12:35.889 Christopher Rawden: So, in other words, if you can start to get a nuanced feeling for what you're actually experiencing. Let's say there's an escalating argument going on in a meeting, if you can. If you can tell whether you're just irritated, or whether you're angry, which one? It is just saying it, saying that to yourself I feel irritated. That actually helps to dial down
00:12:35.950 --> 00:12:36.990 Christopher Rawden: the feeling.
00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:41.009 Christopher Rawden: So this is why, having some emotional
00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:50.520 Christopher Rawden: training and some access in understanding. Your own emotional makeup can actually be really useful in decision making and in managing difficult situations.
00:12:51.110 --> 00:12:55.649 Christopher Rawden: It goes together with all the cognitive stuff. But it's really useful, because suddenly.
00:12:55.680 --> 00:13:01.849 Christopher Rawden: it's not like being in a dark room anymore. You've suddenly got a torch, and you can suddenly see. That's how I feel.
00:13:01.900 --> 00:13:03.130 Christopher Rawden: Not that.
00:13:03.490 --> 00:13:06.540 Mira Brancu: Right, right? And so now.
00:13:06.950 --> 00:13:11.289 Mira Brancu: I know where you're going with this, but some of our audience members might not
00:13:11.310 --> 00:13:13.239 Mira Brancu: connect the dots for them.
00:13:13.510 --> 00:13:14.570 Mira Brancu: How
00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:16.199 Mira Brancu: does do these
00:13:16.910 --> 00:13:21.790 Mira Brancu: cultural differences, whether it's within your own country or across countries, or whatever.
00:13:22.060 --> 00:13:23.160 Mira Brancu: And
00:13:23.824 --> 00:13:34.000 Mira Brancu: naming your emotions in the moment? How does that connect to performing in front of people, whether it's team organization and
00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:34.785 Mira Brancu: to
00:13:35.530 --> 00:13:43.480 Mira Brancu: or or to people that you've never met before in in a new audience, and I just noticed that we are reaching an ad break. So I'm going to
00:13:43.600 --> 00:14:09.770 Mira Brancu: drop that there for you to think about and respond after the ads. You are listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mayor Brocko and our guest today, Chris Rodden. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern. If you'd like to join our online audience right now and ask questions that we can answer in real time, you can find us on Linkedin or Youtube at talk radio, Nyc, and we'll be right back with our guests in just a moment.
00:16:21.570 --> 00:16:33.330 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and our guest today, Christopher Rawdon. Chris, where we left off is, how do you connect the dots between emotional awareness.
00:16:33.410 --> 00:16:37.830 Mira Brancu: cultural awareness, and communication, and performing well.
00:16:39.670 --> 00:16:40.839 Christopher Rawden: Well, I suppose
00:16:41.180 --> 00:16:48.779 Christopher Rawden: in a, in an international context like I was working in the way it was set up was that English was the common language.
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:57.040 Christopher Rawden: So I think it was always expected that that would be the language in which business would be done between the member firms.
00:16:57.190 --> 00:16:58.100 Christopher Rawden: and
00:16:58.220 --> 00:17:14.180 Christopher Rawden: occasionally people with language skills in other languages could obviously speak the language of of somewhere if they were going to that country, or if they were meeting that firm at a conference or something like this, I found it was always helpful to me that I spoke German and some French.
00:17:15.270 --> 00:17:16.040 Christopher Rawden: So
00:17:16.450 --> 00:17:23.729 Christopher Rawden: not because of necessarily having conversations with those people, but more just having that awareness of what it's like to learn another language.
00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.639 Christopher Rawden: So that when all these people come to our conference
00:17:26.659 --> 00:17:32.359 Christopher Rawden: you have some understanding that they are spending a lot of time listening to your language for 8 h.
00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:42.389 Christopher Rawden: which is not theirs, and it's a second language, and that's 1 of those things it's very easy to take for granted when it's your mother tongue, and it's not others.
00:17:42.509 --> 00:17:45.999 Christopher Rawden: So I think that was kind of a an important point
00:17:46.139 --> 00:17:48.739 Christopher Rawden: where I don't think we always got that right.
00:17:48.899 --> 00:17:53.279 Christopher Rawden: But I think we got better at it as time went on. To have that awareness.
00:17:53.529 --> 00:18:03.219 Christopher Rawden: not to, you know, to understand that Anglo Saxon English can also be very nuanced and is not easy for people with second language English to understand.
00:18:03.499 --> 00:18:04.859 Christopher Rawden: So just
00:18:04.879 --> 00:18:06.619 Christopher Rawden: things like that help, I think.
00:18:06.979 --> 00:18:08.339 Christopher Rawden: Culturally.
00:18:08.499 --> 00:18:11.359 Christopher Rawden: it's always important to have an understanding of
00:18:11.379 --> 00:18:18.989 Christopher Rawden: the thinking in different cultures, and you can obviously read about this and understand it a bit if you, if you haven't got direct experience of it.
00:18:20.309 --> 00:18:28.159 Christopher Rawden: I mean, I think sometimes misunderstandings arise, because the use of words in certain languages are very prominent, you know, in
00:18:28.299 --> 00:18:33.899 Christopher Rawden: in English, of course it's very often that we say, please thank you. Sorry.
00:18:34.669 --> 00:18:39.629 Christopher Rawden: In other languages in Europe it's not so much the case. And if you would say, be in Scandinavia.
00:18:40.241 --> 00:18:42.199 Christopher Rawden: You don't have this pre.
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:53.119 Christopher Rawden: You know the pre disposition to use the word, please so much. It. It's only a minor word, and it's used in cases where you really need something.
00:18:53.209 --> 00:19:00.609 Christopher Rawden: not when you just are using it at the end of every sentence, and sometimes that creates a misunderstanding, and I remember a time when
00:19:01.009 --> 00:19:15.719 Christopher Rawden: there had been a Danish communication where it just wasn't understood why, there wasn't a thank you, or a please or something. But you know I also knew from someone in Denmark who's who's teaching Danes to speak English as a foreign language.
00:19:15.869 --> 00:19:34.589 Christopher Rawden: She would remind them that if they went to London and went into a pub they would have to go to the bar and say 2 pints, please, and not just 2 pints. So I I think that this all is on different levels. And I don't want to make it sound as though running an international organization is
00:19:34.739 --> 00:19:46.409 Christopher Rawden: meaning that you have to get completely, deeply into all of this. But I certainly think with a certain understanding that helps, and it helps to facilitate confidence in coming to discussions together.
00:19:46.539 --> 00:19:49.379 Christopher Rawden: it helps people to speak up and feel included.
00:19:49.479 --> 00:19:51.429 Christopher Rawden: And I think that's the important thing.
00:19:51.569 --> 00:19:55.878 Christopher Rawden: And I think it's a it's a matter of building respect?
00:19:56.679 --> 00:20:01.069 Christopher Rawden: so that, especially when you know, perhaps people are a bit more quietly spoken.
00:20:01.159 --> 00:20:04.549 Christopher Rawden: they maybe take a while to express themselves
00:20:04.679 --> 00:20:15.189 Christopher Rawden: that if you're from a company that tends to speak very like that, you you don't make a judgment about that. You just notice it's different. And you allow that time that those people need.
00:20:15.669 --> 00:20:18.649 Christopher Rawden: you know. Sometimes those things can make all the difference.
00:20:19.129 --> 00:20:28.809 Christopher Rawden: because you then discover something from those delegates that if they hadn't spoken you wouldn't have known about. And that's always what we were trying to do, I think, to
00:20:29.189 --> 00:20:32.229 Christopher Rawden: get people to to contribute, to engage.
00:20:32.299 --> 00:20:35.639 Christopher Rawden: to put their point of view to ask questions
00:20:35.689 --> 00:20:42.619 Christopher Rawden: so that we could have as rich a discussion as possible, and then, hopefully, we get the most engagement from our stakeholders afterwards in terms of
00:20:42.879 --> 00:20:47.109 Christopher Rawden: building vision, acting out, you know their part in it, and
00:20:47.169 --> 00:20:49.549 Christopher Rawden: operationally taking it forward.
00:20:50.270 --> 00:20:51.469 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah.
00:20:52.520 --> 00:20:53.570 Mira Brancu: I
00:20:54.830 --> 00:20:57.962 Mira Brancu: I'd like to share some of the
00:20:59.190 --> 00:21:03.507 Mira Brancu: sort of connections that I'm making from what you're seeing,
00:21:04.070 --> 00:21:05.070 Mira Brancu: with
00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:08.960 Mira Brancu: the ways that I work with my leaders, but also
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:17.260 Mira Brancu: the ways that I've learned how to navigate as an immigrant, and what I've sort of pulled from that experience that applies here, too. And
00:21:17.630 --> 00:21:18.609 Mira Brancu: you know.
00:21:18.860 --> 00:21:20.780 Mira Brancu: when you
00:21:22.540 --> 00:21:28.950 Mira Brancu: have some experience with needing to translate into a different language like you said.
00:21:29.820 --> 00:21:31.170 Mira Brancu: what you
00:21:31.350 --> 00:21:33.659 Mira Brancu: learn is to
00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:37.670 Mira Brancu: slow down and not be so Jargony.
00:21:38.090 --> 00:21:43.739 Mira Brancu: and the the good and bad news of of my own immigrant experience is I can't be jargony.
00:21:44.286 --> 00:21:45.360 Mira Brancu: I can't.
00:21:46.046 --> 00:21:54.340 Mira Brancu: I never picked up these sort of like traditional American colloquialisms, for example, I find it very difficult to
00:21:54.530 --> 00:22:00.229 Mira Brancu: understand them and to recall or use them. So the good news is that
00:22:00.580 --> 00:22:02.899 Mira Brancu: I speak very plainly.
00:22:02.970 --> 00:22:06.119 Mira Brancu: And when I went into a leadership role I
00:22:06.170 --> 00:22:33.959 Mira Brancu: purposefully tried not to apply a lot of clinical psychology, jargon or leadership jargon, or anything like that. I just wanted to speak plainly, so that I could be most easily understood, and that makes a big difference, I think. Because it means that I'll pull more people in like you said. You know, more people will be able to understand and not feel left out or excluded or confused.
00:22:34.529 --> 00:22:39.680 Mira Brancu: The other that I pulled is know your audience and their norms.
00:22:39.810 --> 00:22:43.590 Mira Brancu: you know, instead of trying to sort of bring them to your norms.
00:22:43.690 --> 00:22:49.100 Mira Brancu: and then leave them confused or not clear or not connecting with you, or not relating to you.
00:22:49.300 --> 00:22:53.434 Mira Brancu: Try to get your to know your audience and their norms.
00:22:54.120 --> 00:22:56.820 Mira Brancu: A 3rd thing I pulled from what you were saying is
00:22:56.940 --> 00:22:59.880 Mira Brancu: anticipate what they might not understand.
00:22:59.900 --> 00:23:06.300 Mira Brancu: If you like. For example, we have so many acronyms in some of our organizations.
00:23:06.490 --> 00:23:17.378 Mira Brancu: right? That, like anticipate, the acronyms are not going to be well known even to some people inside the organization, so please break them down and not make any assumptions right?
00:23:17.780 --> 00:23:33.681 Mira Brancu: then, like I'm I'm also adding before the ad break where you were saying like, label, your reactions know when you're having a reaction and what that's about and what pulled from it. I'd love to sort of pull on that thread in just a second
00:23:34.360 --> 00:23:35.909 Mira Brancu: and then finally
00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:38.819 Mira Brancu: building respect for your audience.
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:45.039 Mira Brancu: pulling people in developing trust with them that overcomes so much
00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:48.690 Mira Brancu: miscommunication and confusion, and
00:23:49.970 --> 00:23:56.570 Mira Brancu: it also. All of these things, I think, help make you relatable. And then influential.
00:23:56.950 --> 00:23:58.809 Mira Brancu: Did I pull all of that together.
00:23:58.980 --> 00:23:59.309 Christopher Rawden: Yeah, if you.
00:23:59.310 --> 00:23:59.820 Mira Brancu: Like how you.
00:23:59.820 --> 00:24:02.730 Christopher Rawden: Did a brilliant synthesis there. Yes.
00:24:02.730 --> 00:24:03.956 Mira Brancu: Thanks. Yeah.
00:24:05.600 --> 00:24:18.519 Mira Brancu: I am wondering now, with all of those experiences, how do you add your musical performance? Experience to this? What from that. What do you pull from that experience into the performance?
00:24:19.135 --> 00:24:19.730 Mira Brancu: Area.
00:24:20.620 --> 00:24:26.230 Christopher Rawden: It's interesting, I suppose. What struck me when I started in this corporate role, as I say, was
00:24:26.370 --> 00:24:30.810 Christopher Rawden: many different independent firms. We often would come to conferences. We'd have these gatherings.
00:24:30.830 --> 00:24:32.260 Christopher Rawden: and it struck me
00:24:32.310 --> 00:24:33.580 Christopher Rawden: watching them.
00:24:35.110 --> 00:24:36.120 Christopher Rawden: that
00:24:37.020 --> 00:24:41.350 Christopher Rawden: with, you know, great respect, many of the people who were speaking and presenting.
00:24:41.760 --> 00:24:46.609 Christopher Rawden: They really knew their stuff very well. They could get their facts across very well.
00:24:46.750 --> 00:24:49.539 Christopher Rawden: but there wasn't really a sense of
00:24:49.700 --> 00:24:52.300 Christopher Rawden: connecting with an audience or anything like that.
00:24:52.300 --> 00:24:52.690 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:24:52.690 --> 00:24:57.369 Christopher Rawden: And I suppose that's what struck me compared with being a musician where
00:24:57.530 --> 00:25:00.959 Christopher Rawden: really your job is to find your way to connect, because.
00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:01.580 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:25:01.580 --> 00:25:05.290 Christopher Rawden: In that connection that people experience something beyond the notes
00:25:05.500 --> 00:25:06.320 Christopher Rawden: and
00:25:07.290 --> 00:25:09.040 Christopher Rawden: something that creates almost.
00:25:10.360 --> 00:25:15.829 Christopher Rawden: I mean, I can only describe it, you know, when you're sitting in a concert, and you know you've got a fantastic.
00:25:16.310 --> 00:25:17.750 Christopher Rawden: the former there.
00:25:18.574 --> 00:25:21.059 Christopher Rawden: There's always the sort of initial
00:25:22.910 --> 00:25:28.740 Christopher Rawden: sort of noise and disturbance a little bit at the beginning, but then everything sort of settles, and then the person starts.
00:25:28.890 --> 00:25:33.800 Christopher Rawden: and then depending on how they create that atmosphere. It just draws the audience right in
00:25:34.170 --> 00:25:38.129 Christopher Rawden: to the point where you're almost completely unaware that it's nearly the end of the piece.
00:25:38.180 --> 00:25:45.850 Christopher Rawden: because you've really been transported with your your attention that focus, because that person is just created
00:25:45.870 --> 00:26:01.679 Christopher Rawden: a wonderful picture of something and told it so well. And it's whatever that ability is to draw people in. That's what's always fascinated me about. How would it be if you could apply that to presenting? Or even if you apply that in how you lead a meeting, for example.
00:26:02.349 --> 00:26:05.579 Christopher Rawden: People talk about storytelling a lot now these days.
00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:08.800 Christopher Rawden: and certainly sharing personal experience.
00:26:08.970 --> 00:26:11.090 Christopher Rawden: sharing examples of where
00:26:11.410 --> 00:26:15.079 Christopher Rawden: you've had hardship or or difficulty or challenge yourself
00:26:15.370 --> 00:26:21.849 Christopher Rawden: is also a standard way, and a very important way to try and show people that, however much of a leader you may be
00:26:21.970 --> 00:26:29.100 Christopher Rawden: you don't have everything handled either, and you are not talking down to them. You're sharing the fact that
00:26:29.250 --> 00:26:32.110 Christopher Rawden: you understand where they may be coming from at times.
00:26:32.560 --> 00:26:35.889 Christopher Rawden: but you have to balance that with also inspiring them and
00:26:36.140 --> 00:26:43.620 Christopher Rawden: getting them to look up. But something that's, you know, going to look as though it's rather out of sight. But let's how would it be, folks, if we go for this?
00:26:43.760 --> 00:26:48.599 Christopher Rawden: You know, what does this give our people? What does it give our customers? What does it give our stakeholders that kind of?
00:26:48.930 --> 00:26:49.929 Christopher Rawden: Yeah, you know.
00:26:49.930 --> 00:26:52.540 Mira Brancu: What what's coming up for me is
00:26:53.600 --> 00:26:54.860 Mira Brancu: when
00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:58.519 Mira Brancu: when you think about like a great storyteller.
00:27:00.750 --> 00:27:04.469 Mira Brancu: some people have honed their story
00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:06.070 Mira Brancu: so well
00:27:06.590 --> 00:27:16.999 Mira Brancu: that like, you're almost bored because, like they, they said it over and over, and there isn't like that fresh feeling anymore.
00:27:17.040 --> 00:27:18.669 Mira Brancu: But some people
00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:20.790 Mira Brancu: are really good
00:27:21.700 --> 00:27:23.469 Mira Brancu: making it feel
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:25.970 Mira Brancu: to the audience like
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:30.289 Mira Brancu: it's 1 of the 1st times they're they're telling that story.
00:27:30.330 --> 00:27:34.760 Mira Brancu: and they're still connecting with you, and it still feels fresh, and it still feels authentic.
00:27:35.140 --> 00:27:36.346 Mira Brancu: Instead of
00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:38.970 Mira Brancu: like
00:27:39.120 --> 00:27:40.160 Mira Brancu: overdone.
00:27:40.290 --> 00:27:45.880 Mira Brancu: And I'm curious. I I would guess the same thing for for music.
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:46.250 Christopher Rawden: Yeah.
00:27:46.250 --> 00:27:48.099 Mira Brancu: Right, and so
00:27:48.390 --> 00:27:59.259 Mira Brancu: I would guess with music there's got to be a way where you keep it fresh, and it still feels like this might be one of the 1st few times, but I've been practicing for years. So
00:27:59.310 --> 00:28:00.020 Mira Brancu: how?
00:28:01.540 --> 00:28:03.289 Mira Brancu: how do you think about
00:28:03.900 --> 00:28:05.560 Mira Brancu: preparing enough.
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:10.780 Mira Brancu: but making it feel like it's new to the audience, and fresh.
00:28:12.910 --> 00:28:19.629 Christopher Rawden: That is a very interesting question, and a really great question. I think. Mira I mean, I think certainly as a musician
00:28:19.820 --> 00:28:23.269 Christopher Rawden: I've learned a lot of pieces which I've played many times.
00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:34.610 Christopher Rawden: and I've always enjoyed playing the same piece many times, and I've never had this had this problem that sometimes people talk about and say, Oh, but you know what if you get bored with it, or aren't you fed up with it, or
00:28:34.760 --> 00:28:38.220 Christopher Rawden: won't, won't you, won't you? Well, wouldn't you rather play something else?
00:28:38.270 --> 00:28:44.359 Christopher Rawden: I think there's certain repertoire that we play, whether it's on piano or or whichever instrument we might be playing.
00:28:45.020 --> 00:28:51.239 Christopher Rawden: You just never get tired of it. And actually, the more you study it the more you discover different things in it.
00:28:51.350 --> 00:28:59.279 Christopher Rawden: Yeah. So you know, obviously, when you're in your youth, the way you hear a piece of Mozart is through the years of a child.
00:28:59.370 --> 00:29:05.220 Christopher Rawden: and you might hear, for example, a lot of virtuosity. You might hear tenderness in the slow passages.
00:29:05.260 --> 00:29:10.859 Christopher Rawden: But you won't really necessarily know how to reproduce this, even if you've got the the technique
00:29:10.980 --> 00:29:14.939 Christopher Rawden: that comes later, because it's a part of a maturing process.
00:29:15.090 --> 00:29:22.240 Christopher Rawden: So even if you would set out to play a Mozart sonata the same way for the the whole of your life.
00:29:22.260 --> 00:29:25.559 Christopher Rawden: I don't reckon many people could manage to do that, because
00:29:26.010 --> 00:29:28.680 Christopher Rawden: as we change, so does our playing
00:29:29.686 --> 00:29:32.020 Christopher Rawden: as with many things. So
00:29:32.180 --> 00:29:34.689 Christopher Rawden: I think that's 1 of the fascinating things that
00:29:35.130 --> 00:29:40.659 Christopher Rawden: if you look also at, say the great composers, how their works matured. If you look at, say.
00:29:40.850 --> 00:29:47.729 Christopher Rawden: Beethoven's sonatas. 32 sonatas. The sonatas, he wrote at the end, are nothing like the ones he wrote at the beginning.
00:29:47.860 --> 00:29:52.959 Christopher Rawden: So he was on a journey, and I'm sure, as performers we're also on a journey.
00:29:53.120 --> 00:29:54.010 Christopher Rawden: and
00:29:54.300 --> 00:29:57.200 Christopher Rawden: we learn intuitively
00:29:57.700 --> 00:29:58.840 Christopher Rawden: about.
00:30:00.070 --> 00:30:02.060 Christopher Rawden: I suppose when we you know, perhaps when we
00:30:02.190 --> 00:30:05.719 Christopher Rawden: in our twenties, we look back at how we played in our teams, and we think.
00:30:05.730 --> 00:30:12.249 Christopher Rawden: Oh, gosh! That was a bit rough around the edges. In some respects you you learn refinement, but you
00:30:12.410 --> 00:30:18.539 Christopher Rawden: maybe don't know exactly how the refinement was created, but it's more. Your awareness has has increased.
00:30:19.130 --> 00:30:23.340 Christopher Rawden: You learn to listen for different things. You hear other performers who
00:30:23.370 --> 00:30:42.020 Christopher Rawden: have a particular focus on some area of excellence in their playing that you're fascinated by. And all of those things can be influential, I would say, plus wonderful teachers who will direct you towards different things in your playing, or different things, to listen to as role models in other people's.
00:30:43.170 --> 00:30:46.250 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So learn your craft. Hone your craft
00:30:46.410 --> 00:31:15.989 Mira Brancu: and then see it as a journey of growth over time is what I'm pulling from it. Now we're reaching another ad break, and when we come back I want to sort of take all of this. And now think about how we might apply it to kind of our daily lives, and how we pull out the joy and address, the anxiety of you know, performing in a way that feels authentic. So you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabranku and our guest, Christopher Rawdon, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:33:16.750 --> 00:33:40.149 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Broku and our guest today, Christopher Rawden, who's talking with us about performance and bringing out the very best in performing, whether with our teams at a talk with an audience, we're not familiar with whatever that might be. And we were talking like just sort of
00:33:40.180 --> 00:33:44.449 Mira Brancu: general high level principles. And now we're getting all practical.
00:33:44.630 --> 00:33:45.659 Mira Brancu: So, Chris.
00:33:46.570 --> 00:33:49.070 Mira Brancu: I imagine I am a leader.
00:33:49.600 --> 00:33:51.600 Mira Brancu: and I have this
00:33:51.710 --> 00:33:53.130 Mira Brancu: really high stakes
00:33:53.530 --> 00:33:55.169 Mira Brancu: presentation I have to give.
00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:57.060 Mira Brancu: and I'm nervous.
00:33:57.430 --> 00:33:59.900 Mira Brancu: I want to connect with the audience.
00:33:59.990 --> 00:34:07.100 Mira Brancu: But I'm kind of freaking out because it's a it's a new audience I want to influence.
00:34:07.270 --> 00:34:09.350 Mira Brancu: I want to hit it out of the ballpark
00:34:10.730 --> 00:34:14.190 Mira Brancu: and but I'm but I'm totally in my head about it.
00:34:14.580 --> 00:34:17.659 Mira Brancu: and I'm likely to do one of 2 things
00:34:18.040 --> 00:34:19.599 Mira Brancu: under prep.
00:34:19.820 --> 00:34:29.089 Mira Brancu: so that I don't have to think about it. I'm avoiding the inevitable. And then I just show up as real anxious, and winging it unnecessarily
00:34:29.500 --> 00:34:37.399 Mira Brancu: or over prepping, and I've got my slides, and I don't move at all, and I just read from my slides also, not connecting with the audience.
00:34:37.810 --> 00:34:39.760 Mira Brancu: How can I find the sweet spot
00:34:40.070 --> 00:34:42.620 Mira Brancu: where I can show up authentically?
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:44.500 Mira Brancu: Deliver a good
00:34:44.570 --> 00:34:46.030 Mira Brancu: presentation.
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:50.580 Mira Brancu: even though I'm completely nervous. What what do I do?
00:34:51.120 --> 00:34:54.399 Christopher Rawden: So I think a very important thing for me in the run up to this
00:34:54.409 --> 00:35:01.490 Christopher Rawden: in the weeks before in the preparation. Let's say you've got your text. You've got your slides, you know what you're going to say.
00:35:01.550 --> 00:35:03.229 Christopher Rawden: and you've written it all down.
00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:06.369 Christopher Rawden: Have you actually practised speaking it.
00:35:06.710 --> 00:35:08.430 Christopher Rawden: reading it aloud.
00:35:08.470 --> 00:35:13.259 Christopher Rawden: because one of the things, I'm thinking is the parallel between being a musician and being a speaker.
00:35:13.490 --> 00:35:18.110 Christopher Rawden: As musicians, we, we hear our sound. We focus very much on what we sound like.
00:35:18.110 --> 00:35:18.840 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:35:18.860 --> 00:35:24.600 Christopher Rawden: As speakers. We have to get to know what our voice sounds like, and we have to learn
00:35:24.680 --> 00:35:26.050 Christopher Rawden: to like it.
00:35:26.560 --> 00:35:31.109 Christopher Rawden: So sometimes, you know when you prepare a load of notes for a speech.
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:39.509 Christopher Rawden: and you are practising. Perhaps you are reading it aloud. You're maybe even standing in front of a mirror, and you read a passage that you've written, and you think
00:35:40.050 --> 00:35:44.970 Christopher Rawden: hmm! I don't say I'm not saying that with conviction. I'm not really saying that, as I mean it.
00:35:45.260 --> 00:35:49.310 Christopher Rawden: I would say, if you rehearse that a few times, and you keep coming back to
00:35:49.410 --> 00:35:51.169 Christopher Rawden: these words are not me.
00:35:51.370 --> 00:35:52.340 Christopher Rawden: Drop it.
00:35:52.460 --> 00:35:54.229 Christopher Rawden: change it to something else.
00:35:54.380 --> 00:35:58.200 Christopher Rawden: What you need to do is make the words you.
00:35:58.490 --> 00:36:02.630 Christopher Rawden: You don't need to make yourself into words that don't speak for you.
00:36:02.630 --> 00:36:03.230 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:36:03.700 --> 00:36:04.769 Christopher Rawden: If you do.
00:36:04.950 --> 00:36:12.579 Christopher Rawden: everyone will see that you're not really behind it, and the strongest way you can impress an audience is to be behind what you're saying.
00:36:14.200 --> 00:36:14.800 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:17.419 Christopher Rawden: These are fantastic, and the delivery.
00:36:18.010 --> 00:36:21.179 Mira Brancu: Yeah, these are fantastic. Okay, so 1st thing.
00:36:21.530 --> 00:36:22.580 Mira Brancu: prepare
00:36:22.590 --> 00:36:32.040 Mira Brancu: by actually listening to your own voice. And I have to say, for years I avoided that myself. My my spouse is
00:36:32.450 --> 00:36:36.870 Mira Brancu: a professor, and I would listen to him for years, I mean
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:38.870 Mira Brancu: 2 decades.
00:36:39.090 --> 00:36:42.390 Mira Brancu: Prep the same materials out loud.
00:36:42.390 --> 00:36:42.740 Christopher Rawden: Multiple.
00:36:42.740 --> 00:36:49.549 Mira Brancu: Times before all of his classes, and I was like, why do you keep doing that? You must know this by heart. But he knew
00:36:49.670 --> 00:36:58.090 Mira Brancu: the importance of that preparation, and he is a really great presenter, but I avoided it. I thought.
00:36:58.500 --> 00:37:08.429 Mira Brancu: I I don't want to do this. It's annoying. It's frustrating all of that stuff. And it did hold me back for a really long time. So I can attest
00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:10.640 Mira Brancu: to the importance of that one
00:37:10.983 --> 00:37:16.650 Mira Brancu: and make your words. You. I really like that a lot of us who are high achievers.
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:28.040 Mira Brancu: We want to sound like experts. And so we have all of these quotes from people, or we we wanna like I mentioned, use the jargon, but it doesn't feel or sound like us. So
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:33.020 Mira Brancu: that causes me usually to trip over my own words, trying to make it sound perfect.
00:37:33.550 --> 00:37:34.270 Christopher Rawden: Yes.
00:37:34.690 --> 00:37:35.610 Christopher Rawden: yes.
00:37:36.210 --> 00:37:40.309 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So now let's say I'm practicing. I,
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:44.869 Mira Brancu: adjusting my words right. How do I then get
00:37:45.240 --> 00:37:46.280 Mira Brancu: from
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:53.580 Mira Brancu: what I'm doing at home in the comfort of my own home, and it's starting to feel comfortable to actually being
00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:56.240 Mira Brancu: in front of an audience feeling
00:37:56.470 --> 00:37:59.600 Mira Brancu: some combination of excitement.
00:37:59.670 --> 00:38:01.510 Mira Brancu: comfort, connection.
00:38:02.080 --> 00:38:19.499 Christopher Rawden: Okay. So when you're doing this at home, be prepared. I would say for the beginning few times that you read this, you're gonna have a thoroughly miserable time, and you should expect that because it feels strange, it feels strange to to read it. You have to, very you, and it's not that you're
00:38:19.570 --> 00:38:24.090 Christopher Rawden: you have to very closely read the text, because at that stage you don't know it so well.
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:26.480 Christopher Rawden: Gradually, as you get to know it better.
00:38:27.350 --> 00:38:32.739 Christopher Rawden: You start to lighten up. I mean suddenly, you might even find things in it that actually amuse you.
00:38:32.780 --> 00:38:36.730 Christopher Rawden: But I think you'll notice your change in relationship to what you've written.
00:38:37.060 --> 00:38:43.140 Christopher Rawden: and you don't hold it as this serious thing. You have to get right because you're used to hearing it.
00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:47.200 Christopher Rawden: You're used to thinking, shall I pause at that point?
00:38:47.630 --> 00:38:53.129 Christopher Rawden: What is the message of this paragraph? What? What words do I maybe need to highlight a bit or.
00:38:55.040 --> 00:38:56.390 Christopher Rawden: Where do I need to?
00:38:56.920 --> 00:39:01.700 Christopher Rawden: Where do I need to look in the audience at this point? If I'm trying to make a point generally to people.
00:39:02.160 --> 00:39:10.250 Christopher Rawden: So I think it's that familiarization process that helps to take the surprises away by the time you get to the day. Because
00:39:10.390 --> 00:39:13.759 Christopher Rawden: what you're doing is giving yourself psychological safety.
00:39:14.230 --> 00:39:14.770 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:39:14.770 --> 00:39:19.009 Christopher Rawden: If I was going to go and perform a piece on the trumpet, let's say and touch my other instrument.
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.380 Christopher Rawden: I mean, I might look at the line of music and think. Actually.
00:39:22.510 --> 00:39:27.340 Christopher Rawden: that's fairly easy to play that melody. I don't need to practice that. I'll just go on stage, do it.
00:39:27.560 --> 00:39:30.430 Christopher Rawden: That would still be a foolish thing for me to do.
00:39:30.520 --> 00:39:38.329 Christopher Rawden: because, although it might be easy, it's much better to go through the motions of making myself play it once from start to finish.
00:39:38.710 --> 00:39:43.449 Christopher Rawden: which is what it will be like in that situation on stage. And it's the same when you speak.
00:39:43.560 --> 00:39:46.330 Christopher Rawden: How often do we actually read all the way through it.
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:57.389 Christopher Rawden: so that we've actually got used to. Am I feeling a bit tired after 15 min? Do I need to have a breather somewhere. Where do I start to notice my energy flagging in the whole sequence?
00:39:57.430 --> 00:40:00.039 Christopher Rawden: Things like that. Once you get used to that
00:40:00.470 --> 00:40:05.759 Christopher Rawden: it's a breeze on the day, because suddenly that element of the surprises is taken away from you.
00:40:06.350 --> 00:40:25.259 Christopher Rawden: and because you have that familiarity, this is the preparation over under preparing, you can focus on the things that you might want to focus on, like, what's the dynamic of this stage today? What's the vibe in this room? Who's here today? Who can I look at? Who I? Who do I know, shares this view, or may want to hear me speak, or whatever it is.
00:40:25.510 --> 00:40:29.030 Christopher Rawden: And suddenly you have got some attention left for those things.
00:40:29.130 --> 00:40:32.150 Christopher Rawden: You're not worried about the script or the slides, because
00:40:32.420 --> 00:40:34.010 Christopher Rawden: basically, you know it.
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:40.610 Christopher Rawden: And yeah, that's where I I think you. It's almost like you go from reproducing.
00:40:40.680 --> 00:40:44.850 Christopher Rawden: And I would say, reproducing is what you do when you're in the practice room at home.
00:40:45.150 --> 00:40:49.489 Christopher Rawden: trying to get all the words right, trying to understand how long it takes, where you paused.
00:40:49.640 --> 00:40:53.909 Christopher Rawden: You go from there and then on the stage on the day you are creating.
00:40:54.140 --> 00:41:05.909 Christopher Rawden: You're creating something unique, something for this moment, something with some pauses here and there that takes this amount of time that's in this acoustic you have to project to the back of the room, whatever it might be.
00:41:06.180 --> 00:41:09.490 Christopher Rawden: These are all things that make that occasion unique.
00:41:10.340 --> 00:41:27.719 Christopher Rawden: And this, this was really one of the things that meant a lot to me when I was trying to improve my performance skills. I wanted to not just survive a performance of 20 min or hour long. I wanted to actually live it, enjoy that moment, really feel that that moment was my moment.
00:41:28.010 --> 00:41:35.790 Christopher Rawden: and that's, you know, giving myself a bit of a plug here. That's why I started the Enterprise and called it live your performance rather than survive.
00:41:35.900 --> 00:41:41.880 Christopher Rawden: And I believe that that's something anyone can learn if they do take some of these practical steps.
00:41:42.570 --> 00:41:59.040 Christopher Rawden: There are many other things like developing some emotional awareness, so that when you get to the day and you feel gosh! The room seems to be spinning and my breathing feels different. And where's my attention. I'm I'm my focus is going all over the place in the half hour hour beforehand.
00:42:00.060 --> 00:42:14.470 Christopher Rawden: It's understanding that those kind of things are normal. Our body is doing these things. We have adrenaline. We are feeling unpleasant feelings because we are effectively going into a dangerous situation. If this was, you know, times past
00:42:14.470 --> 00:42:30.190 Christopher Rawden: we would be. It would be a danger signal to tell us that wild animals were coming, and we ought to get moving. Unfortunately, the brain doesn't really distinguish between that level of danger and this kind of thing in a, in a, in a modern corporation type of life.
00:42:31.350 --> 00:42:37.610 Christopher Rawden: So, although it feels similar, it's important to do things like mindfulness meditations.
00:42:37.910 --> 00:42:41.029 Christopher Rawden: Let those feelings up if they feel unpleasant.
00:42:41.150 --> 00:42:47.560 Christopher Rawden: and I'm prompted to think of what I think the psychiatrist, Carl Jung said repeatedly, what you resist persists.
00:42:47.720 --> 00:42:55.830 Christopher Rawden: So if you try and ignore those unpleasant feelings and think, oh, it'll be fine, it'll go away. No, it won't. It's still there, and it comes back.
00:42:56.010 --> 00:42:57.999 Christopher Rawden: whereas if you can accept that
00:42:58.020 --> 00:43:01.469 Christopher Rawden: oh, I'm feeling tense. I'm feeling frightened. I'm in fear.
00:43:01.850 --> 00:43:05.369 Christopher Rawden: Suddenly that feeling can dissipate and change into something else.
00:43:05.530 --> 00:43:09.669 Christopher Rawden: But if you try and ignore it, you're creating problems for yourself.
00:43:09.730 --> 00:43:14.109 Christopher Rawden: So I think it's an important part of what I've discovered. That helps me
00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:19.189 Christopher Rawden: to really face those those feelings whenever they come.
00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:30.920 Christopher Rawden: know that they are part of the makeup on the day. It's kind of what what life looks like when it's working as far as performing goes. But you have to kind of get to the point where you can accept that really fully.
00:43:32.390 --> 00:43:37.540 Mira Brancu: Yeah, and we're reaching an ad break. But I when we come back, I also want to talk about like.
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:41.729 Mira Brancu: how can you prepare for
00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:46.860 Mira Brancu: unexpected curve balls, and I'll I'll give you an example. I
00:43:47.872 --> 00:43:49.770 Mira Brancu: did this talk.
00:43:50.290 --> 00:43:51.410 Mira Brancu: for
00:43:51.830 --> 00:43:55.070 Mira Brancu: I was told it's going to be a hybrid environment.
00:43:55.280 --> 00:44:01.029 Mira Brancu: and I came in. There's 250 people live in the room. A 100 people
00:44:01.230 --> 00:44:02.480 Mira Brancu: out there.
00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:02.890 Christopher Rawden: Yes.
00:44:02.890 --> 00:44:09.450 Mira Brancu: Somewhere, you know, on the Internet watching me, I had actually prepped a lot for this.
00:44:09.680 --> 00:44:33.929 Mira Brancu: I got a you know, somebody who could respond to the chat questions while I was on stage, like lots of sort of contingencies. But what I didn't prep for which really threw me off was that I did not have any direct communication or contact available to me because of some tech issue with the person responding
00:44:34.190 --> 00:44:37.959 Mira Brancu: to my audience who was online. And so there's like
00:44:38.200 --> 00:44:44.110 Mira Brancu: that and a few other technical issues that affected my presentation. And I was like
00:44:44.310 --> 00:44:50.939 Mira Brancu: panicking all of a sudden, even despite all of the preparation that got me there. And so
00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:54.460 Mira Brancu: When we come back from the ad break, I'm curious.
00:44:54.490 --> 00:44:56.650 Mira Brancu: Can you prepare for curveballs?
00:44:56.710 --> 00:45:08.360 Mira Brancu: And what if anything can you do to be ready for them? So you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabranku and our guest today, Christopher Rawdon, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:47:13.590 --> 00:47:19.120 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Brock, who and our guest today, Christopher Rawdon.
00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:23.920 Mira Brancu: Chris, how do we manage unexpected curve balls, can we? What do we do about it?
00:47:24.290 --> 00:47:29.263 Christopher Rawden: Well, I suppose it depends what the curveball is. I mean, it reminds me of a conference we had once in
00:47:29.560 --> 00:47:38.070 Christopher Rawden: South Africa, where I went on stage to present and press the button, and for some reason the slide that I was expecting to appear
00:47:38.160 --> 00:47:39.330 Christopher Rawden: was missing.
00:47:40.027 --> 00:47:42.949 Christopher Rawden: The introduction one just wasn't there
00:47:43.452 --> 00:47:46.669 Christopher Rawden: but actually what I found was just by
00:47:46.850 --> 00:47:48.860 Christopher Rawden: taking a breath slowly
00:47:49.380 --> 00:47:50.320 Christopher Rawden: and just
00:47:50.660 --> 00:47:52.430 Christopher Rawden: pausing for a moment.
00:47:53.650 --> 00:47:58.510 Christopher Rawden: It all came back to me. The 3 or 4 main points that I was going to make came to me.
00:47:58.510 --> 00:47:58.920 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:00.850 Christopher Rawden: It's just. There was no illustration.
00:48:00.970 --> 00:48:07.059 Christopher Rawden: and I just said them slowly. The rest of it was all the the visuals were all fine.
00:48:07.300 --> 00:48:14.876 Christopher Rawden: but I do remember thinking, gosh! That was a curve ball. But I remember also someone coming up to me in the interval and saying,
00:48:15.290 --> 00:48:29.090 Christopher Rawden: gosh! Actually, that was the best presentation I've seen you give. Maybe it takes sometimes those things to make you. It summons up something extra in terms of your concentration, your spontaneity.
00:48:29.410 --> 00:48:34.209 Christopher Rawden: You have to, you know you just find it and it. And it's in here somewhere. It's it's all there.
00:48:34.670 --> 00:48:40.399 Christopher Rawden: I think we fear these things much more than actually the reality of dealing with them is the case.
00:48:41.020 --> 00:48:46.989 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. And speaking of spontaneity, you have this term manage spontaneity.
00:48:46.990 --> 00:48:47.420 Christopher Rawden: Oh, yeah.
00:48:47.420 --> 00:48:50.319 Mira Brancu: What is it? How can we use it for good?
00:48:50.610 --> 00:48:57.690 Christopher Rawden: So really, this is a bit the difference between you know you've perfected your speech or you've perfected your practice, and you're playing
00:48:57.980 --> 00:49:02.960 Christopher Rawden: is your job in a performance to come and just reproduce what you were doing yesterday.
00:49:03.170 --> 00:49:10.730 Christopher Rawden: I I would say, not because I I think that that actually gives you a hard bar to follow. If you're
00:49:10.790 --> 00:49:15.640 Christopher Rawden: worrying about whether you can actually reproduce accurately everything you did yesterday.
00:49:16.250 --> 00:49:19.220 Christopher Rawden: you're not present for the audience. If you're doing that.
00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:22.170 Christopher Rawden: Whereas if you can step out and
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.169 Christopher Rawden: see some of the unique features of this moment.
00:49:25.540 --> 00:49:32.710 Christopher Rawden: you're prepared. You know this. You know the words well enough to be able to say them. You might make a few tweaks. You might even change one or 2 things
00:49:32.900 --> 00:49:42.470 Christopher Rawden: to me. This is what kind of is a kind of managed spontaneity, because it's not going to the extent that you completely throw away everything you've prepared.
00:49:42.590 --> 00:49:50.079 Christopher Rawden: and you would not be able to be spontaneous if you hadn't prepared. So the preparation is vital that you did spend all those hours.
00:49:50.220 --> 00:50:05.029 Christopher Rawden: But I think there's a sort of space in between being rigorously attached to the script, or to playing the pieces you did yesterday, and going completely, Wacko, and doing something wild. I think there's a nice space in the middle to find a sweet spot, and that's what I mean.
00:50:05.200 --> 00:50:09.710 Christopher Rawden: because I remember once I played it playing a piece of Schumann, which
00:50:09.910 --> 00:50:17.150 Christopher Rawden: it's an introduction to a set of Viennese pieces, and it's a very short introduction, only 3 or 4 bars, and that, my professor said,
00:50:17.640 --> 00:50:44.979 Christopher Rawden: what you need to do is to try and make this sound spontaneous. Of course, if I say to you, please make it spontaneous, it's not going to be spontaneous, but it gave me the thinking about. I listen to different pianists play those few bars, and some of them just did capture that sense of oh, there's a real sense of anticipation about what's to come in the next waltz or the next piece, and that's what I was trying to evoke and trying to learn how to do, and I think that's a bit where this whole manage. Spontaneity thing came to me, because.
00:50:45.130 --> 00:50:49.839 Christopher Rawden: of course, you can't be spontaneous and and tell someone how to be spontaneous, but
00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:55.779 Christopher Rawden: retaining the possibility of spontaneity for a performance, I think, is very important for freshness.
00:50:56.530 --> 00:51:02.189 Mira Brancu: Yeah, you know what? What I'm pulling out of this, and and the insight I'm having for myself
00:51:02.670 --> 00:51:03.670 Mira Brancu: is
00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:07.069 Mira Brancu: I prefer facilitating
00:51:07.200 --> 00:51:10.349 Mira Brancu: conversations instead of being a keynote speaker
00:51:10.450 --> 00:51:16.729 Mira Brancu: where I'm talking the whole entire time, and the reason is because I can be spontaneous
00:51:16.900 --> 00:51:19.149 Mira Brancu: and respond to the audience
00:51:19.190 --> 00:51:22.620 Mira Brancu: much more easily than I can feel comfortable
00:51:22.690 --> 00:51:29.879 Mira Brancu: talking the entire time at the audience. Yeah. And even when I'm asked to do keynote speaking.
00:51:30.110 --> 00:51:35.989 Mira Brancu: I will still turn it into some kind of interaction where I get audience responses.
00:51:36.020 --> 00:51:38.400 Mira Brancu: I'm trying
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:44.350 Mira Brancu: my best to turn it into a facilitative conversation, because otherwise
00:51:45.790 --> 00:51:46.610 Mira Brancu: it's
00:51:46.870 --> 00:51:54.430 Mira Brancu: very challenging for me to be spontaneous, and I think some of that based on, like my takeaway from this is
00:51:54.440 --> 00:51:55.235 Mira Brancu: I
00:51:56.320 --> 00:51:58.120 Mira Brancu: under prepare
00:51:58.410 --> 00:52:10.099 Mira Brancu: for talks like that where I have to talk the entire time, and so I can't be spontaneous because I'm under preparing, and I'm still like stuck on my script as opposed to a facilitated
00:52:10.180 --> 00:52:12.790 Mira Brancu: discussion, where
00:52:12.830 --> 00:52:17.759 Mira Brancu: I know where we can go with it, and I'm like ready and fluid to go there.
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:35.080 Christopher Rawden: Yeah, I mean for me, it's fascinating to me. This is a parallel process, because that is how you've for me facilitated our conversation. It's grown organically out of with a plan that we had. But we have been able to move things around. We've been able to pick up on certain points more than others, and that's because you have the.
00:52:35.220 --> 00:52:43.790 Christopher Rawden: You know you have the foresight and and the skill to know how to do that. And I and I appreciate that I actually think it also makes it far more interesting for the audience.
00:52:44.580 --> 00:52:49.410 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. And if I had to talk on this podcast and 1, 1 or 2 times I did.
00:52:49.430 --> 00:52:57.539 Mira Brancu: I had to just talk the whole entire time, because something happened with the guest. They couldn't make it. I had to make up something.
00:52:57.540 --> 00:52:58.099 Christopher Rawden: Oh, yeah.
00:52:58.100 --> 00:53:04.089 Mira Brancu: Oh, it was for me painful because I I didn't have anything to respond to just me myself.
00:53:04.395 --> 00:53:05.309 Christopher Rawden: And I, yeah.
00:53:05.690 --> 00:53:08.829 Christopher Rawden: yes, the having to be the continuity person. Yes.
00:53:09.190 --> 00:53:36.249 Mira Brancu: Yes, yes. Well, Chris, thank you so much for sharing all of these insights into how you apply your musical performance, your leadership, your global experiences to helping leaders be more authentic in their leadership performances. And I'm wondering what is one I shared with you, my takeaway. What's your one thing that you want other people to take away from this conversation.
00:53:37.370 --> 00:53:38.770 Christopher Rawden: I think it's to see that
00:53:38.870 --> 00:53:45.490 Christopher Rawden: whatever perspective you have on what you're doing, whether you're presenting, whether you're playing, whether you're facilitating a meeting.
00:53:46.020 --> 00:53:50.540 Christopher Rawden: you know. Prepare as much as you can. Sometimes you have little time.
00:53:51.080 --> 00:54:04.759 Christopher Rawden: but except that you have a view of how it's going to go, you have a view of what you think is going to be high pressure. What's going to be difficult where you'll get pushback, and all of those things prepare as best you can, but at the end of the day try and stay in the moment.
00:54:04.810 --> 00:54:15.379 Christopher Rawden: because it's in the moment that people are going to be able to relate to you. You're going to be able to listen to them, and then you're in a better position to be a listener, which is very important in a facilitated Board meeting.
00:54:15.380 --> 00:54:15.920 Mira Brancu: You too.
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:21.249 Christopher Rawden: Like this rather than getting carried away with. Oh, but this isn't quite the way it's supposed to go
00:54:21.587 --> 00:54:38.089 Christopher Rawden: and then trying to cram too many things in or whatever it is. But I think you know a lot of the work I do is really directing people to say, what messages. Do you want to land with the audience? And how are you going to know if you have? So don't just talk for 40 min, interrupt every so often and say.
00:54:38.160 --> 00:54:43.069 Christopher Rawden: you know, what are the 2 or 3 things you're hearing here? What are the 2 or 3 main messages you're getting?
00:54:43.300 --> 00:54:52.450 Christopher Rawden: Ask for a show of hands. See what people are hearing. They may not be used to it, but if they don't respond, say, well, what I'm trying to get across is this and this and this.
00:54:52.460 --> 00:54:58.640 Christopher Rawden: It just helps. It's a signpost. And it it gives you that sense of security that after 40 min
00:54:58.780 --> 00:55:07.420 Christopher Rawden: you haven't just got a nice room full of quiet people who have not got a scowl on their face. You actually know that they followed up. They've asked 2 or 3 questions.
00:55:08.160 --> 00:55:11.970 Christopher Rawden: That's the value, then, because you're getting some feedback about what you've done.
00:55:12.700 --> 00:55:20.810 Mira Brancu: Absolutely, absolutely. So. If people want to learn more about what you do and even, you know, contact, you work with you.
00:55:20.860 --> 00:55:25.690 Mira Brancu: Where can they go and what would you like to to share about that.
00:55:25.870 --> 00:55:43.019 Christopher Rawden: So thank you for that. I mean, that's my website. I I would like to offer the opportunity for anyone who'd like to have a half hour coaching session with me on any particular leadership challenge they've got. But let's say particularly a performance related one, a hyper high pressure. One doesn't have to be, but it could be
00:55:43.110 --> 00:55:53.609 Christopher Rawden: if you get in touch with me between now and Friday, close of play, Friday, the 13th of September. We can fix a time and we'll have a half hour call sometime after that.
00:55:54.046 --> 00:56:06.530 Christopher Rawden: That's my website. Live your performance.com. You can ping me an email at Chris at liveourperformance.com, or you can find me on Linkedin as Chris Rawden, and you can message me there.
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:10.880 Christopher Rawden: I'd be very happy to work with you, and to understand a bit
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:17.620 Christopher Rawden: what you've got and what your challenges are, because I'm always interested in how we can make progress through challenges together.
00:56:18.160 --> 00:56:30.709 Mira Brancu: Awesome. Thank you for offering that to our audience. So for those of you who are going to be listening later after the live, and you won't be able to see this. Visual. It's again live your performance
00:56:30.930 --> 00:56:55.359 Mira Brancu: altogether.com live your performancecom, and you can find all the information about Chris, and you could also reach out on Linkedin. You can reach out Chris at live your performancecom, and he's offering a free 30 min coaching session on, you know, high stakes or performance. Question that you have. So I, personally would take advantage of it before Friday, September 13.th
00:56:55.550 --> 00:56:56.480 Mira Brancu: So.
00:56:56.630 --> 00:56:58.080 Mira Brancu: audience.
00:56:58.340 --> 00:57:05.250 Mira Brancu: what did you take away from today? And what more importantly, what is one small thing
00:57:05.340 --> 00:57:16.000 Mira Brancu: that you can implement today this week that you learned from Chris? Share it with us on Linkedin. You just heard he lives on Linkedin. I lived on Linkedin. Share it with us so we can cheer you on
00:57:16.070 --> 00:57:27.990 Mira Brancu: talk. Radio. Nyc. Is also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, twitch, apple spotify Amazon Podcasts all over the place. So please check us out, help us increase our visibility, reach and impact
00:57:28.020 --> 00:57:29.460 Mira Brancu: by leaving a review.
00:57:29.770 --> 00:57:42.749 Mira Brancu: And thank you to Talkradio, Nyc. For hosting. I am Dr. Mira Bronku, your host of the Hard Skills show. Thank you for joining us today with our guest, Christopher Rodden, of Live. Your performance
00:57:43.110 --> 00:57:48.370 Mira Brancu: have a great, great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from. Thank you, everybody. Bye.
00:57:48.370 --> 00:57:49.279 Christopher Rawden: Thank you very much.