Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
When we want to make a greater impact in a new leadership role, we know that initial impressions go a long way. It's why so many books have been written on the subject of what to do in the first 90 days of a leadership role. What do we need to know about the systems, policies, and cultural mechanisms that could either help or hurt us as news leaders? That's what we'll be discussing in this episode.
Nancy Harris will share her New Leader change framework to help leaders get up to speed quickly and learn what they should take into account when working with leaders of diverse backgrounds. We'll also learn how women and underrepresented leaders need to know about what systems and policies could help or hurt their leadership or others they supervise.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Nancy Harris is an equity-centered Leadership Coach and People & Culture Advisor focused on helping mission-driven organizations advance and develop senior leaders. Nancy centers diversity, belonging, equity, and accessibility into everything she does. Nancy brings a holistic approach...coaching the leader and assessing the ecosystem where they work. She uncovers what helps or hinders the success of newly promoted executives. Nancy has over 25 years global experience as an HR Executive, Coach, and Management Consultant. Having worked with 100’s of leaders across many industries, she brings a unique combination of lived experience, empathy, and integrity. She is an expert in coaching/developing women and historically underrepresented leaders. Nancy is the Host of the Intersection podcast and a Facilitator/Coach for numerous programs at Northwestern University Kellogg School of Business. In her spare time you'll find her enjoying a good meal with family and friends, traveling, or practicing yoga. Her mission is to ensure every leader has what they need to lead authentically and that organizations know how to best support them.
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LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
Guest LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nhannette/
Guest IG: https://www.instagram.com/restartconsult/
Guest Website: https://www.restartconsult.com/
Our website: www.gotowerscope.com
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
00:00:51.820 --> 00:01:00.869 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the nuanced hard skills meaning the most challenging soft skills
00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:03.829 Mira Brancu: needed to make a real impact through your leadership.
00:01:04.420 --> 00:01:06.800 Mira Brancu: So what are we talking about today? Well.
00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:13.660 Mira Brancu: when we want to make a greater impact in a new leadership role. We know that initial impressions go a long way.
00:01:13.780 --> 00:01:20.689 Mira Brancu: It's why so many books have been written on the subject of what to do in the 1st 90 days of a leadership role.
00:01:21.380 --> 00:01:23.560 Mira Brancu: Why is that time period so important?
00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:30.010 Mira Brancu: What do we need to know about the systems, the policies, the cultural mechanisms that could either help or hurt us as new leaders.
00:01:30.230 --> 00:01:37.559 Mira Brancu: That's what we'll be discussing in this episode. Welcome to Season 5 where we'll we'll be focusing on making a greater impact.
00:01:37.820 --> 00:01:50.709 Mira Brancu: I'm your host, Dr. Mira Branco. I'm a leadership consulting and coaching psychologist, founder of Tower Scope Leadership Academy, an associate, professor, a psychology today, columnist, author of the Millennials Guide to Workplace politics.
00:01:50.880 --> 00:01:57.840 Mira Brancu: and had my own leadership career before transitioning to helping teams and high achieving women navigate their leadership complexities.
00:01:58.220 --> 00:02:04.720 Mira Brancu: Okay. With no further ado, I'm excited to introduce our special guest today. Nancy Harris.
00:02:04.880 --> 00:02:14.350 Mira Brancu: Nancy is an Equity Center leadership coach and people and culture advisor focused on helping mission driven organizations advance and develop senior leaders.
00:02:14.600 --> 00:02:20.640 Mira Brancu: Nancy centers diversity belonging equity and accessibility into everything she does.
00:02:20.690 --> 00:02:27.030 Mira Brancu: Nancy has over 25 years of global experience as an Hr executive coach and management consultant.
00:02:27.150 --> 00:02:31.719 Mira Brancu: She's an expert in coaching and developing women and historically underrepresented leaders.
00:02:31.790 --> 00:02:38.950 Mira Brancu: She's also the host of the intersection podcast which I was fortunate enough to come on, I believe, last year.
00:02:38.950 --> 00:02:39.500 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yes.
00:02:39.500 --> 00:02:50.880 Mira Brancu: And yes, and she is also facilitator and coach for numerous programs at Northwestern University, Kellogg School of business welcome and great to have you on the show, Nancy?
00:02:50.880 --> 00:03:05.899 Nancy Harris (she/her): Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. I will forewarn you. As you know. I'm getting over, Covid. I'm better, but I may need to take a sip here and there, and, you know, put myself on mute to clear my throat. But I'm happy to be here.
00:03:05.900 --> 00:03:14.959 Mira Brancu: Well, then, you know what I'm gonna welcome you in and join you. I have my drink right here, so when you take a sip. I can take a sip. We'll make it all cool all right.
00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:15.595 Nancy Harris (she/her): Awesome.
00:03:16.230 --> 00:03:31.369 Mira Brancu: And Nancy and I were talking right before the show, because you know, she is a long term podcaster, right? And so the fact. I mean, she's been on other people's podcast shows as well. But it's kind of hard and challenging. Once you get really into
00:03:31.681 --> 00:03:41.340 Mira Brancu: being the interviewer, to. Then going back into the Interviewee seat, so I told her I gave her permission. She can interview me as much as I interviewed her. It's totally fine.
00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:50.779 Nancy Harris (she/her): Thank you. I appreciate it. I was like, Oh, I'm like a little bit nervous. I haven't sat on this side of the the podcast. Table before.
00:03:51.410 --> 00:03:57.170 Mira Brancu: Totally totally well, we're gonna have a great time, because I know that because every time I have
00:03:57.220 --> 00:03:59.420 Mira Brancu: discussions with Nancy it gets
00:03:59.540 --> 00:04:08.799 Mira Brancu: really deep, meaningful just lovely conversation. So I know today is just going to be like another conversation between she and I.
00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:11.450 Nancy Harris (she/her): You're right. You're absolutely right, right?
00:04:11.740 --> 00:04:14.540 Mira Brancu: Okay, so, Nancy, you do a lot of things.
00:04:14.760 --> 00:04:16.800 Mira Brancu: 4 leaders. You work with them
00:04:16.930 --> 00:04:31.479 Mira Brancu: both on their own individual development as well as their goals for organizations. But one of the things that that sort of piqued my interest about, where you're leaning into what you're focusing on, which I think is so interesting is this 1st 90 days?
00:04:32.037 --> 00:04:42.699 Mira Brancu: In a leader's new position. So why is that time period so important? Why, there are books out there on the 1st 90 days of a leader's start.
00:04:43.090 --> 00:04:47.070 Nancy Harris (she/her): I will say, say this, and you hinted at this
00:04:47.780 --> 00:04:51.939 Nancy Harris (she/her): a few minutes earlier. You said something about a 1st impression.
00:04:51.950 --> 00:04:58.389 Nancy Harris (she/her): I look at the 90 days. It's like it's you, never. You've only got this short window of time
00:04:58.550 --> 00:05:01.070 Nancy Harris (she/her): as a new leader to make
00:05:01.180 --> 00:05:04.140 Nancy Harris (she/her): an impression, to make a good impression.
00:05:04.220 --> 00:05:07.000 Nancy Harris (she/her): And those 90 days are so critical.
00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:17.030 Nancy Harris (she/her): and oftentimes we're plopped into these roles. We don't have any training, and the 1st thing we want to do is just full steam ahead
00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:46.577 Nancy Harris (she/her): and not really slow down. Reflect before we start making all of these changes. So that 90 day period. It's just like, if you think about it? I used to work at Ford, and people have these 90 days like, you've got 90 days where they're gonna evaluate whether or not. You're fit for the role. So I don't know all the like research behind like 90 days. But it is something again. It's that that kind of critical
00:05:47.090 --> 00:05:51.559 Nancy Harris (she/her): period, and especially critical for senior leaders.
00:05:52.140 --> 00:05:53.310 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And you know.
00:05:53.910 --> 00:06:02.450 Mira Brancu: because I think it's kind of backfired because of the fact that there's so many books on the 1st 90 days. I think it sends the wrong message
00:06:02.610 --> 00:06:09.670 Mira Brancu: about hitting the ground. Running guns are blazing, making lots of changes so that you can prove yourself. It's like.
00:06:09.700 --> 00:06:12.219 Mira Brancu: actually the worst thing that you could do.
00:06:12.220 --> 00:06:13.380 Nancy Harris (she/her): Absolutely
00:06:14.495 --> 00:06:15.230 Nancy Harris (she/her): and.
00:06:15.230 --> 00:06:16.832 Mira Brancu: I can't tell you how many
00:06:17.420 --> 00:06:18.789 Mira Brancu: how many times
00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:22.465 Mira Brancu: I end up coming into an organization.
00:06:23.350 --> 00:06:38.720 Mira Brancu: and you know they're not cohesive. Things have fallen apart in the 1st year of a new leader's onboarding. They're not communicating. Well, and I'm listening. I'm gathering information. We're working our way backward, and it all comes down to
00:06:38.730 --> 00:06:45.830 Mira Brancu: this leader came in guns. A blazing in the 1st 90 days made all of these changes mainly because
00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:52.279 Mira Brancu: their supervisor or their board, said, We want to see all these changes. We want you to fix everything.
00:06:52.350 --> 00:07:01.180 Mira Brancu: and instead of spending taking some time to understand it for themselves, they said, Yes, I will fix this for you. I will go in there.
00:07:02.530 --> 00:07:04.210 Mira Brancu: and it just backfires.
00:07:04.210 --> 00:07:08.718 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah, yeah, it goes back into like our broader kind of systems. And the way we
00:07:09.350 --> 00:07:16.139 Nancy Harris (she/her): have historically operated our organizations, it's like, Run, run fast fast, do it as quick as you can.
00:07:16.150 --> 00:07:33.059 Nancy Harris (she/her): and I'm a big proponent, and I've told people that anyone that's worked with me and and coach that I've coached. I always say slow down right, and I've had people push back on that. But once they understand what that means.
00:07:33.230 --> 00:07:37.429 Nancy Harris (she/her): then it's kind of like the light bulb goes on. It doesn't mean that you're
00:07:37.530 --> 00:07:38.560 Nancy Harris (she/her): slow.
00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:42.130 Nancy Harris (she/her): It just means that you're slowing down. You're being more intentional.
00:07:42.450 --> 00:07:45.660 Mira Brancu: Yeah, reflective. Yeah, right?
00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:46.245 Mira Brancu: So,
00:07:47.320 --> 00:07:54.669 Mira Brancu: Nancy, I could maybe take some guesses, but I would like to hear from you out of all of the different ways that you have helped
00:07:54.940 --> 00:07:55.870 Mira Brancu: leaders.
00:07:56.930 --> 00:07:58.170 Mira Brancu: how did you come
00:07:58.250 --> 00:08:00.180 Mira Brancu: to being interested in this
00:08:00.270 --> 00:08:07.270 Mira Brancu: particular focus out of? I mean, you. You focus in a number of different directions, but this is one of them. And how did you come to that?
00:08:08.690 --> 00:08:11.940 Nancy Harris (she/her): It's funny, you know, as I look back.
00:08:12.030 --> 00:08:16.479 Nancy Harris (she/her): Probably it was about 10 years ago. Well, a little over 10 years ago.
00:08:16.590 --> 00:08:28.120 Nancy Harris (she/her): where I really started to pay attention to this, and I'd been in Hr. For a number of years. I've worked with hundreds of leaders. I've seen people get promoted.
00:08:28.200 --> 00:08:33.811 Nancy Harris (she/her): and I've seen people fail. I've seen myself get promoted to roles and not necessarily
00:08:34.630 --> 00:08:38.850 Nancy Harris (she/her): And really, really, you know, if I say, had to be completely transparent, not
00:08:39.970 --> 00:08:44.270 Nancy Harris (she/her): not live up to what I would have expected as a leader.
00:08:44.440 --> 00:09:00.579 Nancy Harris (she/her): And so I just started contemplating. I just started thinking I was like, Why is that right? Why is it that you know folks are really capable in their role? They can be really a really good Hr person, a really good marketer, a really good finance person.
00:09:00.800 --> 00:09:03.490 Nancy Harris (she/her): And then when we we move them into
00:09:04.010 --> 00:09:16.660 Nancy Harris (she/her): manager roles, senior manager roles, they're really, really struggling. And so I I just I. It just really was a question for me. It was almost like this hypothesis like, Why is this? What is going on?
00:09:17.083 --> 00:09:24.529 Nancy Harris (she/her): Because we've got highly capable people. And it's so interesting. I've seen statistics that range across the board
00:09:24.540 --> 00:09:26.069 Nancy Harris (she/her): anywhere from like
00:09:26.910 --> 00:09:29.530 Nancy Harris (she/her): 50% to 70%
00:09:29.940 --> 00:09:34.260 Nancy Harris (she/her): of leaders will fail within the 1st 18 months.
00:09:34.260 --> 00:09:35.129 Mira Brancu: Oh, wow! And.
00:09:35.130 --> 00:09:37.929 Nancy Harris (she/her): It's staggering. It's absolutely staggering.
00:09:37.930 --> 00:09:39.600 Mira Brancu: 70%.
00:09:40.890 --> 00:09:41.840 Mira Brancu: Wow, yeah.
00:09:41.940 --> 00:09:43.699 Mira Brancu: yeah, what contributes to that?
00:09:45.210 --> 00:09:48.300 Nancy Harris (she/her): 1 1 thing that contributes to that is.
00:09:48.850 --> 00:09:56.130 Nancy Harris (she/her): there's no training. I also found another statistic. 50% of companies say that there is no preparation
00:09:56.270 --> 00:09:56.970 Nancy Harris (she/her): for
00:09:57.140 --> 00:09:59.470 Nancy Harris (she/her): leaders as they step into these roles.
00:09:59.950 --> 00:10:09.829 Nancy Harris (she/her): and that was an old stat that was from like 20 to. I don't think it's any different, because, as I'm working with people today as I'm coaching leaders, I can tell you that
00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:11.829 Nancy Harris (she/her): very rarely
00:10:11.870 --> 00:10:17.649 Nancy Harris (she/her): have I talked to someone that says, Yes, there was some type of preparation.
00:10:17.670 --> 00:10:22.110 Nancy Harris (she/her): leadership, preparation, coaching, preparation
00:10:22.170 --> 00:10:25.179 Nancy Harris (she/her): before stepping into their role.
00:10:26.370 --> 00:10:27.290 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I
00:10:28.210 --> 00:10:38.289 Mira Brancu: I mean, you think about how many leaders come into their roles? Right? They have demonstrated that in addition to their technical expertise.
00:10:39.134 --> 00:10:41.919 Mira Brancu: Which you know they excel at.
00:10:41.930 --> 00:10:46.300 Mira Brancu: They might demonstrate they're good team leaders
00:10:46.460 --> 00:10:48.489 Mira Brancu: or work well with people
00:10:48.680 --> 00:11:02.460 Mira Brancu: right? And so they're they're likable. They're engaged. They're excited about new opportunities. They might, you know, volunteer for new new opera, but but none of those are like leadership competencies.
00:11:02.460 --> 00:11:03.020 Nancy Harris (she/her): There's like.
00:11:03.020 --> 00:11:09.489 Mira Brancu: They show initiative. They show interest, and they show, like, you have people skills which are all good, important, foundational.
00:11:09.820 --> 00:11:13.459 Mira Brancu: But there's so much more you need to know at that next level, right?
00:11:13.460 --> 00:11:20.160 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah, yeah, I want to say something else which I don't think people talk about enough when you say, Why do people fail
00:11:20.210 --> 00:11:21.640 Nancy Harris (she/her): in those roles.
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:27.590 Nancy Harris (she/her): I've talked to so many people that said, I really don't want to be a people leader.
00:11:27.680 --> 00:11:29.850 Nancy Harris (she/her): This was the only
00:11:30.390 --> 00:11:32.019 Nancy Harris (she/her): career path that
00:11:32.420 --> 00:11:36.219 Nancy Harris (she/her): I thought was available to me in order to advance in an organization.
00:11:36.350 --> 00:11:42.709 Nancy Harris (she/her): And so I think that that's also something that's so critical. Before we're advancing
00:11:42.760 --> 00:11:49.299 Nancy Harris (she/her): people to these roles. Are we having the conversations like? Is this what you want to do?
00:11:50.290 --> 00:11:53.920 Nancy Harris (she/her): And I think oftentimes that conversation doesn't happen.
00:11:54.350 --> 00:11:56.170 Mira Brancu: Absolutely well, and
00:11:56.290 --> 00:11:57.797 Mira Brancu: I think that
00:11:58.850 --> 00:12:01.849 Mira Brancu: some of that just comes from the fact that there aren't
00:12:02.180 --> 00:12:08.010 Mira Brancu: other career paths available to grow in advance. There are plenty of people who love
00:12:08.270 --> 00:12:11.800 Mira Brancu: the technical work that they do, and they want to go deeper
00:12:11.890 --> 00:12:14.409 Mira Brancu: and broader and farther with it.
00:12:14.530 --> 00:12:20.780 Mira Brancu: and that would feel like advancement for them. Yes, and yet there isn't like a promotional
00:12:21.140 --> 00:12:22.570 Mira Brancu: equivalent to that.
00:12:23.140 --> 00:12:27.130 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah, yeah, I worked in a pharmaceutical company years ago.
00:12:27.180 --> 00:12:31.240 Nancy Harris (she/her): And one of the things that we created was a specific scientific
00:12:31.450 --> 00:12:42.840 Nancy Harris (she/her): career path. And so it was for those folks, as you said, that they were not interested in leading other people, but they could still advance and progress in their career, and I always wondered like.
00:12:42.930 --> 00:12:58.560 Nancy Harris (she/her): why doesn't that exist in other organizations? I know it doesn't in in some consulting firms as well, too. When I worked at Accenture. There was a path for folks that wanted to just be specialists. But oftentimes that's not the case for a lot of organizations.
00:12:58.920 --> 00:13:01.386 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. I actually
00:13:02.010 --> 00:13:08.534 Mira Brancu: did some work last year for a local group within the Environmental Protection agency. And
00:13:09.270 --> 00:13:17.559 Mira Brancu: they did eventually create that, because I mean, all they have is technical experts who love their work. And there's a reason they're there, right
00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:35.739 Mira Brancu: and not everybody wants to be a people leader within an organization that specifically focus focuses on their scientific knowledge to advance the the field and the world and society as a whole. And so I thought, that made perfect perfect sense. And I'm glad that they did that within their own organization.
00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:37.359 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah, absolutely.
00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:38.130 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah.
00:13:38.130 --> 00:13:40.090 Mira Brancu: Now I'm I'm really curious.
00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:48.160 Mira Brancu: How did you start thinking through Melding, your interests and your lens of a diversity, equity and inclusion
00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:52.379 Mira Brancu: with this 1st 90 days
00:13:52.420 --> 00:13:53.660 Mira Brancu: right? Like
00:13:54.380 --> 00:14:06.779 Mira Brancu: what do we need to be thinking about with this perspective? Why is it so important? We are going to be reaching an outbreak in a minute. So let's get a little bit started. And then we're going to go. Actually, you know what?
00:14:06.850 --> 00:14:12.375 Mira Brancu: I'm going to go right into the ad break. Because I want to hear this fully. I want to get just a little bit I want, like the whole thing.
00:14:12.560 --> 00:14:14.559 Nancy Harris (she/her): Sounds. Great. Okay.
00:14:14.560 --> 00:14:25.410 Mira Brancu: So everybody you are reaching the ad break with us. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mayor Bronco and our guest today, Nancy Harris. We air on Tuesdays at 5 pm. Eastern.
00:14:25.800 --> 00:14:27.619 Mira Brancu: If you would like to join us
00:14:27.880 --> 00:14:39.229 Mira Brancu: online right now and ask us questions in real time we will answer in real time. You can find us on Linkedin or Youtube at Talkradio, Nyc. And we'll be right back with our guests in just a moment.
00:16:51.020 --> 00:17:04.050 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the heart skills with me. Dr. Mira Branco and our guest today, Nancy Harris, who's talking with us today about the 1st 90 days and onboarding a new leader, and where we left off is
00:17:04.300 --> 00:17:15.589 Mira Brancu: how you integrated your diversity, equity, and inclusion lens into this. I think that's very unique, and a lot more nuanced than we see usually when it comes to onboarding.
00:17:15.609 --> 00:17:19.820 Mira Brancu: and I have my own thoughts about it, too, and in terms of accessibility.
00:17:20.075 --> 00:17:24.989 Mira Brancu: But I'd love to hear kind of like, how how do you see the big picture putting it all together.
00:17:25.430 --> 00:17:26.240 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah.
00:17:27.060 --> 00:17:28.020 Nancy Harris (she/her): So
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:32.670 Nancy Harris (she/her): several years ago I had the opportunity to coach.
00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:36.499 Nancy Harris (she/her): I believe Mira was probably about 4 or 5
00:17:36.780 --> 00:17:38.360 Nancy Harris (she/her): senior level
00:17:38.490 --> 00:17:43.259 Nancy Harris (she/her): African American women who had recently been promoted to
00:17:43.270 --> 00:17:48.119 Nancy Harris (she/her): either a Vp role or a CEO or President role.
00:17:48.490 --> 00:17:52.099 Nancy Harris (she/her): And the 1st thing that I notice is that
00:17:52.370 --> 00:17:55.180 Nancy Harris (she/her): when the organizations called me.
00:17:55.890 --> 00:18:02.629 Nancy Harris (she/her): They were calling because there was a deficit. There was something wrong that the person
00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:05.470 Nancy Harris (she/her): where the individual needed to get coached on.
00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:07.129 Nancy Harris (she/her): So I thought. Hmm.
00:18:07.410 --> 00:18:13.120 Nancy Harris (she/her): that that's interesting. Right kind of put put a put a little, put a little bit of a PIN in that.
00:18:13.830 --> 00:18:15.140 Nancy Harris (she/her): And so
00:18:16.250 --> 00:18:24.160 Nancy Harris (she/her): as I went through, and I was coaching these really amazing, powerful, bright women.
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:31.159 Nancy Harris (she/her): I noticed something in myself as a coach. It was a revelation that I had for myself
00:18:31.550 --> 00:18:36.739 Nancy Harris (she/her): is that I went in with that same lens of okay, let's try to
00:18:37.260 --> 00:18:39.350 Nancy Harris (she/her): quote unquote, fix
00:18:39.910 --> 00:18:41.220 Nancy Harris (she/her): what's wrong.
00:18:41.390 --> 00:18:46.260 Nancy Harris (she/her): And at the end of one of the coaching engagements that I had.
00:18:47.510 --> 00:18:54.780 Nancy Harris (she/her): This light bulb went off, and and I I will say it didn't necessarily feel good, but it was a good revelation for me to have.
00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:00.350 Nancy Harris (she/her): and I remember telling my client, I said, I don't think I fully served you as a coach
00:19:00.950 --> 00:19:04.950 Nancy Harris (she/her): because you were in this role again.
00:19:05.610 --> 00:19:08.949 Nancy Harris (she/her): New leader put into this role.
00:19:09.180 --> 00:19:11.770 Nancy Harris (she/her): and I was coaching you on the deficit
00:19:11.830 --> 00:19:15.260 Nancy Harris (she/her): on a deficit. I'm putting this in quotes.
00:19:15.750 --> 00:19:19.340 Nancy Harris (she/her): and I didn't take the time to look at.
00:19:19.550 --> 00:19:22.749 Nancy Harris (she/her): What are the things around you?
00:19:22.950 --> 00:19:28.250 Nancy Harris (she/her): Either the policies, the systems, the way your manager may have
00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:37.079 Nancy Harris (she/her): helped or hindered you in terms of their approach to leading you, particularly in this case, as a black woman.
00:19:37.730 --> 00:19:44.450 Nancy Harris (she/her): and that's where the kind of light bulb started to go off for me, and I was like, I can't.
00:19:45.010 --> 00:19:47.339 Nancy Harris (she/her): or I'm choosing not to
00:19:47.760 --> 00:19:50.699 Nancy Harris (she/her): approach coaching in this way
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:54.820 Nancy Harris (she/her): anymore for anyone, because.
00:19:55.321 --> 00:19:57.730 Nancy Harris (she/her): this is also something else that
00:19:58.020 --> 00:20:02.650 Nancy Harris (she/her): a couple of the leaders said they said that they had had coaches before.
00:20:02.820 --> 00:20:10.849 Nancy Harris (she/her): and it was almost like if they said something about this is how I'm being treated as a woman, or this is how I'm being treated as a black woman.
00:20:12.360 --> 00:20:14.459 Nancy Harris (she/her): It was like, well, just, you know.
00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:21.330 Nancy Harris (she/her): toxic positivity yourself out of it, or you yourself can change it. And so I'm a big.
00:20:21.450 --> 00:20:23.710 Nancy Harris (she/her): big believer in. Yes.
00:20:24.250 --> 00:20:29.709 Nancy Harris (she/her): we have our individual accountability and ways in which we need to approach things, but we cannot
00:20:30.050 --> 00:20:31.420 Nancy Harris (she/her): ignore
00:20:31.690 --> 00:20:39.050 Nancy Harris (she/her): the systems, the the policies, all of that that's surrounding us. So that was really where
00:20:39.410 --> 00:20:42.499 Nancy Harris (she/her): all of this started to come together for me.
00:20:42.910 --> 00:20:43.800 Mira Brancu: Oh, my God!
00:20:43.940 --> 00:20:47.593 Mira Brancu: A 100%, a hundred 1,000%.
00:20:48.270 --> 00:20:50.800 Mira Brancu: I I came to that scene.
00:20:51.788 --> 00:20:54.780 Mira Brancu: Realization. When I had
00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:56.410 Mira Brancu: a
00:20:56.710 --> 00:20:57.760 Mira Brancu: leader,
00:20:58.820 --> 00:21:05.239 Mira Brancu: women identifying, and, you know, promoted, promoted into a role where they wanted her to fix
00:21:05.520 --> 00:21:09.800 Mira Brancu: a untenable, completely untenable situation.
00:21:10.050 --> 00:21:11.040 Mira Brancu: And
00:21:12.570 --> 00:21:14.000 Mira Brancu: She was such
00:21:14.120 --> 00:21:15.570 Mira Brancu: a high achiever.
00:21:15.870 --> 00:21:17.010 Mira Brancu: and I mean it
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:22.239 Mira Brancu: personally, in her personal life as much as in her professional life.
00:21:22.370 --> 00:21:33.640 Mira Brancu: Such a superstar. And she just kept working it and working it and digging in, and all her, you know, energy and all the things. And she came to me saying, I want to be a more effective leader.
00:21:33.790 --> 00:21:34.780 Mira Brancu: but
00:21:35.120 --> 00:21:38.510 Mira Brancu: that was like a surface level solution.
00:21:38.600 --> 00:21:39.660 Mira Brancu: And
00:21:40.450 --> 00:21:42.570 Mira Brancu: and she kept saying.
00:21:42.860 --> 00:21:46.679 Mira Brancu: I'm not a quitter. I refuse to quit.
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.959 Mira Brancu: I am not a failure. I refuse to fail at this.
00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:52.660 Mira Brancu: and we really had to
00:21:52.870 --> 00:21:54.370 Mira Brancu: re-examine
00:21:54.380 --> 00:22:00.360 Mira Brancu: what quitting means, what failure means, and whether the system was actually ever set up for her success
00:22:00.410 --> 00:22:05.210 Mira Brancu: and helping her understand that you don't work in a vacuum.
00:22:05.570 --> 00:22:08.459 Mira Brancu: There is a system around you that is set up either
00:22:08.670 --> 00:22:15.089 Mira Brancu: well, to help you succeed or not well, and that onboarding process is part of that.
00:22:15.610 --> 00:22:16.190 Nancy Harris (she/her): And.
00:22:16.190 --> 00:22:23.380 Mira Brancu: Right. So I would love to hear more now from you like what changed? How did you now start shifting? How you
00:22:23.944 --> 00:22:29.879 Mira Brancu: either coach directly, or even consult to organizations. With this new framework in mind.
00:22:31.050 --> 00:22:34.859 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah. So one of the most important things I've done is
00:22:35.700 --> 00:22:38.239 Nancy Harris (she/her): I created this
00:22:39.060 --> 00:22:41.026 Nancy Harris (she/her): ecosystem assessment.
00:22:42.300 --> 00:22:46.100 Nancy Harris (she/her): And really, what it does is it's super simple.
00:22:46.300 --> 00:22:50.980 Nancy Harris (she/her): There's just specific questions that I make sure to ask
00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:52.550 Nancy Harris (she/her): the leader
00:22:52.670 --> 00:22:55.111 Nancy Harris (she/her): the person that may be
00:22:56.060 --> 00:23:01.710 Nancy Harris (she/her): It could be a board, it could be a board or a board chair. The person that's managing that leader.
00:23:01.870 --> 00:23:08.629 Nancy Harris (she/her): and I always try to get in a couple of peers as well as people who are on the team.
00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:11.299 Nancy Harris (she/her): and the biggest shift
00:23:11.810 --> 00:23:20.059 Nancy Harris (she/her): that I would say is, I used to go in with like the stakeholder interviews, and they were like, well, what's wrong with Mira? Well.
00:23:20.410 --> 00:23:22.960 Nancy Harris (she/her): I mean it wasn't, but it was centered around this deck.
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:24.319 Mira Brancu: Deficit, right.
00:23:24.800 --> 00:23:26.489 Nancy Harris (she/her): Whereas this is.
00:23:26.520 --> 00:23:32.119 Nancy Harris (she/her): tell me, you know, if you're managing this new, tell me about your leadership style.
00:23:32.830 --> 00:23:34.010 Nancy Harris (she/her): Tell me.
00:23:34.350 --> 00:23:35.139 Nancy Harris (she/her): you know.
00:23:36.750 --> 00:23:38.970 Nancy Harris (she/her): very transparent like.
00:23:39.080 --> 00:23:45.579 Nancy Harris (she/her): how many, how many people of diverse backgrounds have you coached? Have you coached work with lead before?
00:23:48.470 --> 00:23:51.599 Nancy Harris (she/her): what's the culture within the organization?
00:23:52.670 --> 00:23:58.580 Nancy Harris (she/her): What's your leadership style. So it the the questions have shifted so that
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:03.189 Nancy Harris (she/her): I can get a more holistic picture
00:24:03.270 --> 00:24:04.429 Nancy Harris (she/her): of what
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:06.779 Nancy Harris (she/her): the leader is
00:24:07.150 --> 00:24:10.049 Nancy Harris (she/her): working in navigating in
00:24:10.693 --> 00:24:17.489 Nancy Harris (she/her): and then I take that information, and it's just a 2 or 3 things that are like. Here's what you're doing
00:24:17.650 --> 00:24:18.900 Nancy Harris (she/her): that may help
00:24:18.930 --> 00:24:20.230 Nancy Harris (she/her): this person.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:33.769 Nancy Harris (she/her): Here's what you're doing that, May. And when I say you, it's not necessarily a specific person, but collectively like that whole ecosystem may be doing to to hinder this person's success in that role.
00:24:34.770 --> 00:24:35.490 Mira Brancu: Brilliant.
00:24:35.870 --> 00:24:38.490 Mira Brancu: I just love this so much. I you know.
00:24:42.180 --> 00:24:45.659 Mira Brancu: we have gone for so long focusing on
00:24:46.623 --> 00:24:48.050 Mira Brancu: leadership development
00:24:48.550 --> 00:24:53.060 Mira Brancu: focused on the single hero model. There's 1 leader.
00:24:53.110 --> 00:24:59.030 Mira Brancu: They know all the answers they will, they will lead us to success.
00:24:59.260 --> 00:25:00.054 Mira Brancu: And
00:25:01.370 --> 00:25:05.742 Mira Brancu: It's really outdated and does not acknowledge the realities right.
00:25:06.180 --> 00:25:15.949 Nancy Harris (she/her): And you and I both know that's a lie that has never, ever been that way. Right? I mean, unless you're working in some kind of autocracy, right, you know. And and
00:25:16.491 --> 00:25:24.810 Nancy Harris (she/her): you know, that's some extreme. We know that I don't care. CEO VI don't care who you are. You've got to have
00:25:24.840 --> 00:25:27.687 Nancy Harris (she/her): a community of folks.
00:25:28.450 --> 00:25:30.399 Nancy Harris (she/her): helping and supporting you
00:25:30.540 --> 00:25:42.640 Nancy Harris (she/her): and helping you through this change, which is essentially what this new leadership role is. It's a change for you as the new leader, your team, the organization. And so
00:25:42.700 --> 00:25:59.939 Nancy Harris (she/her): yeah, I I used to say, don't you know the Cape putting on that cape, and you're flying around. No, come on, let's stop. Let's please stop with that, because it's never been that way, and that story is no longer serving folks. Not that I think that it probably ever did before.
00:26:00.220 --> 00:26:01.841 Mira Brancu: Yeah, well, it's it serves
00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:05.913 Mira Brancu: you know, functional narcissist. But
00:26:06.810 --> 00:26:24.020 Mira Brancu: the rest of us it really doesn't serve it. Just it sets most people up for failure and unrealistic expectations, and a lack of understanding of how systems work and how to garner and cultivate your resources within an organization.
00:26:24.487 --> 00:26:29.409 Mira Brancu: It. It sort of like strips away all of the possible ways that you can succeed.
00:26:29.410 --> 00:26:33.769 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah, right? And and I wanted to say this, too. It's that you said that.
00:26:34.940 --> 00:26:41.079 Nancy Harris (she/her): this piece around failure, right? It sets them up for failure. It's like it also sets people up for
00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:52.469 Nancy Harris (she/her): for burnout, for breakdown. You know, for for taking all of this on, or shift shaping themselves to be.
00:26:52.510 --> 00:26:56.640 Nancy Harris (she/her): You know what they think a leader should be, you know, with the Cape coming in.
00:26:56.940 --> 00:27:01.430 Nancy Harris (she/her): and all of that is detrimental as well, too right.
00:27:02.040 --> 00:27:04.344 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. And so
00:27:05.350 --> 00:27:10.859 Mira Brancu: in a way, we your your ecosystem assessment, not only
00:27:11.737 --> 00:27:19.480 Mira Brancu: starts evaluating how the system is set up for someone's success, or where the gaps are, but it also
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:24.219 Mira Brancu: it's an intervention in of in and of itself, because it brings insight
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:28.439 Mira Brancu: into like to all of the stakeholders you you are interviewing.
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:31.869 Mira Brancu: It increases their insight to think about these things right.
00:27:31.870 --> 00:27:34.610 Nancy Harris (she/her): Absolutely. Yeah, so.
00:27:35.025 --> 00:27:36.689 Mira Brancu: What have you learned
00:27:36.850 --> 00:27:39.579 Mira Brancu: as you have started using this like? What?
00:27:40.950 --> 00:27:43.979 Mira Brancu: What can we learn from this, based on current
00:27:44.360 --> 00:27:45.370 Mira Brancu: experiences?
00:27:45.610 --> 00:27:59.440 Nancy Harris (she/her): I think one of the biggest learnings from this is, if you are managing or leading a new leader to really slow down and start. There's a couple of things being aware.
00:28:00.016 --> 00:28:09.439 Nancy Harris (she/her): Being aware of your leadership style being aware of, you know some of the biases that you may have unconscious biases that you may bring.
00:28:09.630 --> 00:28:11.470 Nancy Harris (she/her): and the other thing that's come up
00:28:11.550 --> 00:28:12.690 Nancy Harris (she/her): is
00:28:13.550 --> 00:28:21.629 Nancy Harris (she/her): assuming like, don't assume like people assume that there's this one way to lead. Well, this is how I led. This is how I got there.
00:28:21.950 --> 00:28:23.629 Nancy Harris (she/her): So it's this.
00:28:23.650 --> 00:28:25.750 Nancy Harris (she/her): Aha, like, okay.
00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:35.140 Nancy Harris (she/her): I don't want to assume that this person, stepping into this role has to lead in the same way that I have led
00:28:35.630 --> 00:28:37.490 Nancy Harris (she/her): in order to be successful.
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:40.762 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yeah. And
00:28:42.010 --> 00:28:46.209 Mira Brancu: well, we're reaching an outbreak. I want us when we come back.
00:28:46.430 --> 00:28:49.429 Mira Brancu: I want us to think about like
00:28:49.650 --> 00:28:50.480 Mira Brancu: how
00:28:51.670 --> 00:28:58.580 Mira Brancu: organizations might even use this assessment tool to actually create an intervention. That
00:28:58.650 --> 00:29:11.359 Mira Brancu: is a better onboarding experience. I'm curious about your thoughts on that. So you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabranku and our guest today, Nancy Harris, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:31:12.050 --> 00:31:18.110 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and our guest, Nancy Harris.
00:31:18.320 --> 00:31:20.739 Mira Brancu: So Nancy.
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:24.539 Mira Brancu: let's let's talk a little bit about
00:31:25.010 --> 00:31:26.820 Mira Brancu: how your
00:31:28.860 --> 00:31:30.680 Mira Brancu: ecosystem assessment
00:31:31.130 --> 00:31:34.660 Mira Brancu: is placed in kind of like a bigger framework.
00:31:34.760 --> 00:31:37.030 Mira Brancu: as you're thinking about
00:31:37.060 --> 00:31:39.580 Mira Brancu: the onboarding process for new leaders
00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:44.230 Mira Brancu: and creating the sort of like the right intervention for new leaders.
00:31:44.230 --> 00:31:49.359 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah, I wanna just make a slight correction.
00:31:49.929 --> 00:31:54.220 Nancy Harris (she/her): So I I really try to move away from onboarding
00:31:54.390 --> 00:31:58.229 Nancy Harris (she/her): and think of it as a transition plan, and I had read this
00:31:58.370 --> 00:32:02.551 Nancy Harris (she/her): years ago in a I believe it was a Harvard Business Review
00:32:04.010 --> 00:32:10.249 Nancy Harris (she/her): article, and I thought, that's brilliant, because when I think of onboarding, I think of those
00:32:10.310 --> 00:32:11.340 Nancy Harris (she/her): very
00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:15.299 Nancy Harris (she/her): tactical pieces that we we need right.
00:32:15.390 --> 00:32:24.689 Nancy Harris (she/her): But then, when I think about transition, I think about that like in terms of a broader change that's taking place again, that broader transition that happens
00:32:24.790 --> 00:32:33.070 Nancy Harris (she/her): when a new leader steps into a role. So I almost like to think of the work that I do less, as you know, onboarding
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:34.790 Nancy Harris (she/her): and more as
00:32:35.150 --> 00:32:44.829 Nancy Harris (she/her): a kind of this new leader transition or this new leader like change plan for for folks that are stepping into these roles.
00:32:44.830 --> 00:32:49.709 Mira Brancu: Like that. A lot. Onboarding does sound like it's a short term training.
00:32:49.710 --> 00:32:58.319 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah, like, it's like, where's my laptop? Here's where the it is. If you're new to the organization, there's where the bathrooms are. You know that type of thing.
00:32:58.770 --> 00:33:02.400 Nancy Harris (she/her): and that's important. Certainly we need those things.
00:33:03.097 --> 00:33:07.280 Nancy Harris (she/her): But this transition, you know, it takes
00:33:07.320 --> 00:33:10.180 Nancy Harris (she/her): a more holistic approach.
00:33:10.180 --> 00:33:12.390 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah. Love it.
00:33:12.590 --> 00:33:13.880 Mira Brancu: And
00:33:14.670 --> 00:33:17.860 Mira Brancu: it also makes me think about
00:33:18.730 --> 00:33:26.069 Mira Brancu: what the people need like. Onboarding doesn't doesn't make you think about that right, like the even the term makes you think
00:33:26.560 --> 00:33:27.940 Mira Brancu: you're doing something
00:33:28.460 --> 00:33:30.069 Mira Brancu: to help one person.
00:33:30.280 --> 00:33:30.880 Nancy Harris (she/her): Right.
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:32.289 Mira Brancu: For a short period of time
00:33:32.360 --> 00:33:38.040 Mira Brancu: with a checklist. That's what you think of right right and transition plan is
00:33:38.498 --> 00:33:40.949 Mira Brancu: the way that you describe. It
00:33:41.060 --> 00:33:42.460 Mira Brancu: involves
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.230 Mira Brancu: not only helping the person in their experience
00:33:46.510 --> 00:33:48.369 Mira Brancu: of the transition into the role.
00:33:48.470 --> 00:33:50.660 Mira Brancu: but also involves
00:33:50.970 --> 00:33:51.990 Mira Brancu: the
00:33:52.150 --> 00:33:55.359 Mira Brancu: community within the organization that is going to support that person.
00:33:55.540 --> 00:33:58.360 Nancy Harris (she/her): Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
00:33:58.800 --> 00:34:07.380 Mira Brancu: Yes, okay. So I'm gonna try to switch my mind from the word onboarding to transition plan, because I really like that.
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:12.209 Mira Brancu: Correct me if I get it wrong. And so.
00:34:12.489 --> 00:34:19.249 Mira Brancu: as we're thinking about using your ecosystem assessment within the broader transition plan
00:34:19.350 --> 00:34:21.409 Mira Brancu: for new leaders?
00:34:22.190 --> 00:34:33.930 Mira Brancu: Where? Where is it in the process. And what's kind of like your your overarching framework for? For what leaders and their organization need to be thinking about.
00:34:34.190 --> 00:34:35.389 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah. So
00:34:35.909 --> 00:34:38.250 Nancy Harris (she/her): I like to bring it in at the start.
00:34:38.659 --> 00:34:40.650 Nancy Harris (she/her): And again, I think, as I mentioned
00:34:41.290 --> 00:34:54.100 Nancy Harris (she/her): sometimes, that doesn't happen. But ideally, this is something that's brought in at the very beginning. Ideally, I would love especially senior leaders, executives, Vps. I would love to all
00:34:54.719 --> 00:35:07.350 Nancy Harris (she/her): I would love for them to all have some type of executive, you know, or leadership coach helping them through. But you know, in the absence of that like this, as this, this ecosystem assessment.
00:35:07.370 --> 00:35:17.090 Nancy Harris (she/her): I again, it's brought in at the very beginning. When I'm working with that leader within again, within the 1st 90 days, really, within the 1st 30 days
00:35:17.170 --> 00:35:35.100 Nancy Harris (she/her): to really help the person again get this broader perspective about what's helping or what's hindering for themselves individually. And again, also for the people that are supporting and working with that individual, as well too.
00:35:35.670 --> 00:35:39.119 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And so let's say
00:35:39.380 --> 00:35:43.389 Mira Brancu: you have. You get this assessment and you start getting like warning
00:35:43.890 --> 00:35:45.540 Mira Brancu: flags, red flags.
00:35:45.590 --> 00:35:47.375 Mira Brancu: I'm sure you've been in that position.
00:35:47.630 --> 00:35:49.791 Nancy Harris (she/her): That's why I was nodding my head.
00:35:52.350 --> 00:35:55.570 Mira Brancu: How do you go about starting to address
00:35:55.600 --> 00:35:57.240 Mira Brancu: those red flags?
00:35:58.720 --> 00:35:59.490 Mira Brancu: yeah, okay.
00:36:00.720 --> 00:36:03.813 Nancy Harris (she/her): One of the things that it's hard to
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:12.020 Nancy Harris (she/her): fight with a lot of times is data. Right? So I'm collecting all these data points from the conversations or service that I have.
00:36:12.530 --> 00:36:23.899 Nancy Harris (she/her): collecting all that data and then sharing it right, and then putting together these recommendations. So that makes it a little bit easier to be able to tell people here. Here's what it is that I've
00:36:24.080 --> 00:36:25.180 Nancy Harris (she/her): heard.
00:36:25.610 --> 00:36:50.149 Nancy Harris (she/her): Here's the themes that I've heard, and here are some of the recommendations that I'm pulling forward. It's no different than when people do broader culture assessments, or if you've ever done, you know, stakeholder interviews, or anything like that. It's the data, and it's and it's it's it makes it so much easier to be able to share what it is that I'm what it is that I'm seeing.
00:36:50.690 --> 00:36:52.420 Mira Brancu: Yeah, that makes sense. So
00:36:52.470 --> 00:36:58.459 Mira Brancu: when now we're thinking about making a greater impact as leaders, which is the focus of the season.
00:36:58.460 --> 00:36:58.920 Nancy Harris (she/her): Right.
00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:05.669 Mira Brancu: What do we be? What do we need to be thinking about as new leaders to create the kind of environment that supports instead of harms.
00:37:05.950 --> 00:37:07.160 Mira Brancu: And
00:37:07.240 --> 00:37:08.075 Mira Brancu: how?
00:37:10.540 --> 00:37:13.986 Mira Brancu: how does the sort of information from the assessment?
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:16.190 Mira Brancu: convey some part of that
00:37:16.590 --> 00:37:18.609 Mira Brancu: in order to make that greater impact.
00:37:19.290 --> 00:37:20.170 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah.
00:37:20.420 --> 00:37:24.490 Nancy Harris (she/her): I think if you're a new leader looking at.
00:37:25.090 --> 00:37:28.429 Nancy Harris (she/her): you know what's the type of impact that you want to make.
00:37:28.910 --> 00:37:32.500 Nancy Harris (she/her): I think it goes back to what we were talking about a little bit earlier.
00:37:32.600 --> 00:37:40.089 Nancy Harris (she/her): and that is, you know, before you start doing anything just to kind of slow down. Reflect on and think about.
00:37:40.110 --> 00:37:45.220 Nancy Harris (she/her): You know what's the vision that you have for yourself as a leader?
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:49.930 Nancy Harris (she/her): What's the vision that you have for your team?
00:37:50.448 --> 00:37:55.319 Nancy Harris (she/her): And if it's broader than that, what vision do you have for your organization?
00:37:55.520 --> 00:37:59.570 Nancy Harris (she/her): So I think oftentimes you said, you talk about making that impact.
00:38:00.690 --> 00:38:03.610 Nancy Harris (she/her): We rush into changing things. It's like
00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:06.890 Nancy Harris (she/her): the impact starts with you slowing down.
00:38:07.070 --> 00:38:14.710 Nancy Harris (she/her): thinking about reflecting on again. What is it that you want to create? Why is that important.
00:38:14.810 --> 00:38:17.699 Nancy Harris (she/her): I think that's the other piece of it. Why is that important?
00:38:18.182 --> 00:38:21.267 Nancy Harris (she/her): So before you start going off and doing anything.
00:38:22.660 --> 00:38:24.890 Nancy Harris (she/her): Just reflect a bit. I think
00:38:25.250 --> 00:38:29.399 Nancy Harris (she/her): when I've worked with leaders and they they can do that.
00:38:29.540 --> 00:38:35.610 Nancy Harris (she/her): That's where I see some of the the biggest impact that they can make again on their own
00:38:35.660 --> 00:38:37.799 Nancy Harris (she/her): transition into that role
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:41.880 Nancy Harris (she/her): and then also into those in which they're they're working with.
00:38:42.370 --> 00:38:45.509 Nancy Harris (she/her): The second thing I wanted to say is that
00:38:46.520 --> 00:38:51.630 Nancy Harris (she/her): feedback, or that data point from the ecosystem assessment.
00:38:51.720 --> 00:38:56.980 Nancy Harris (she/her): I mean, you can use that to make changes and or
00:38:57.260 --> 00:39:02.310 Nancy Harris (she/her): pivots to what it is that you may have been thinking about doing or not doing
00:39:02.837 --> 00:39:12.010 Nancy Harris (she/her): it it it just provides that level of insight that you may not have normally had had you just kind of gone gone in. As you said. Like.
00:39:12.060 --> 00:39:15.259 Nancy Harris (she/her): we're we're blazing ahead without
00:39:15.910 --> 00:39:24.620 Nancy Harris (she/her): reflecting, slowing down and taking some of that information and insights into consideration. That's where I can see some of the really big impact coming in.
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:28.549 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, I it's reminding me of.
00:39:29.010 --> 00:39:33.200 Mira Brancu: I was on this panel interview interview panel
00:39:33.250 --> 00:39:41.670 Mira Brancu: where they were looking for a director of a center which is like a really important position, that they oversee the entire vision and
00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:46.950 Mira Brancu: outcome results of the center. And there it came down to 2 candidates.
00:39:47.450 --> 00:39:48.920 Mira Brancu: And one
00:39:49.630 --> 00:40:04.030 Mira Brancu: did this like phenomenal, amazing presentation. And you know he's got the charisma, and he's like somehow gathered data before he ever even got to the interview and put it all together in in a vision, and it was like
00:40:04.060 --> 00:40:06.420 Mira Brancu: his clear vision. And this is.
00:40:06.450 --> 00:40:08.460 Mira Brancu: and the second person
00:40:09.176 --> 00:40:10.030 Mira Brancu: came in
00:40:10.835 --> 00:40:11.550 Mira Brancu: much
00:40:11.790 --> 00:40:13.800 Mira Brancu: more understated.
00:40:13.940 --> 00:40:29.040 Mira Brancu: and said, well, the 1st thing that I would do is talk with each of you, and understand the situation, and get a better sense of where you've been, what the challenges are and where you might need to go now, even though she was not as sort of like
00:40:29.882 --> 00:40:33.499 Mira Brancu: charismatic, and she didn't have a clear vision.
00:40:33.968 --> 00:40:37.800 Mira Brancu: Everyone was turned off by the 1st person, because they're like
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:45.230 Mira Brancu: he doesn't even know anything about us. And all of a sudden. He's already wanting to change us. He's just in the interview, and already talking this way
00:40:45.240 --> 00:40:47.090 Mira Brancu: to him. He probably
00:40:47.240 --> 00:40:56.259 Mira Brancu: wanted to come off as strong, clear having a vision. And that is the message that a lot of people get.
00:40:56.550 --> 00:40:57.360 Mira Brancu: But
00:40:57.590 --> 00:41:04.070 Mira Brancu: you know she was more appealing because, even though she didn't have that level of sort of clarity
00:41:04.660 --> 00:41:07.210 Mira Brancu: she had what you're talking about.
00:41:07.290 --> 00:41:10.390 Mira Brancu: which is intentionality, thoughtfulness.
00:41:10.510 --> 00:41:12.969 Mira Brancu: slowing down a process
00:41:13.130 --> 00:41:14.849 Mira Brancu: to get there together.
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:18.627 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah, yeah. I'm glad to see that they were.
00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:20.069 Mira Brancu: I know.
00:41:20.070 --> 00:41:25.140 Nancy Harris (she/her): Because sometimes that very charismatic in the, you know.
00:41:25.660 --> 00:41:30.840 Nancy Harris (she/her): don't get me started. Executive presence. That can
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:33.180 Nancy Harris (she/her): sway a lot of people.
00:41:33.260 --> 00:41:39.580 Nancy Harris (she/her): And one of the things I learned a lot of things when I did when I worked in consulting but but one.
00:41:39.640 --> 00:42:00.609 Nancy Harris (she/her): It was like one of the 1st things that you did as part of the process like you assess right? You go in. You ask the questions you don't, you know, make these assumptions before you've actually gathered some data like you said you've talked to people you've assessed. And then you can say, Oh, here's what it is that I that that I see.
00:42:00.950 --> 00:42:04.460 Nancy Harris (she/her): So yeah, I'm I'm glad to hear that that cause
00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:07.590 Nancy Harris (she/her): that oftentimes is, is
00:42:07.750 --> 00:42:10.010 Nancy Harris (she/her): the charisma can overtake.
00:42:10.330 --> 00:42:18.910 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And it almost did. You know, in in the Conversations people were sort of like weighing pros and cons of you know, not not having that
00:42:19.510 --> 00:42:31.149 Mira Brancu: presence but ultimately it's it does come down to what people need. And you have to spend some time to assess it. Yeah. And
00:42:31.450 --> 00:42:34.769 Mira Brancu: what I'm what I continue to pull from our conversation
00:42:34.780 --> 00:42:35.900 Mira Brancu: is
00:42:37.002 --> 00:42:41.220 Mira Brancu: this systems level, thinking that you approach
00:42:41.320 --> 00:42:45.489 Mira Brancu: the entire way, that you support
00:42:45.630 --> 00:42:52.749 Mira Brancu: leaders in their transition planning right and the organization with the transition and helping them
00:42:53.060 --> 00:42:55.650 Mira Brancu: understand, there is a system.
00:42:56.060 --> 00:42:57.510 Mira Brancu: There's an ecosystem.
00:42:57.640 --> 00:42:58.720 Mira Brancu: And
00:43:00.510 --> 00:43:02.519 Mira Brancu: you know, it just makes me think about
00:43:02.930 --> 00:43:10.450 Mira Brancu: how common, more common it is to do a 360, which is just about the individual leader, and then to do a leadership
00:43:10.610 --> 00:43:17.300 Mira Brancu: assessment about the individual leader. And you know, like, with none of what you're talking about.
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:19.080 Mira Brancu: which is
00:43:19.720 --> 00:43:21.170 Mira Brancu: the ecosystem.
00:43:21.170 --> 00:43:22.389 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:22.470 --> 00:43:24.959 Nancy Harris (she/her): And the other, I'm just going to say, my big
00:43:25.649 --> 00:43:30.080 Nancy Harris (she/her): challenge that I have around, you know, 3 60 assessments. It's like
00:43:30.970 --> 00:43:35.709 Nancy Harris (she/her): the folks that are giving the input. I'm not saying that there isn't value to it.
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:45.699 Nancy Harris (she/her): But how aware are they of their biases? How aware are they of all. And so it's. I always tell the people a lot of the folks that I'm working with. I'm like.
00:43:45.910 --> 00:43:46.930 Nancy Harris (she/her): take it with.
00:43:47.250 --> 00:43:49.820 Nancy Harris (she/her): take it. But take it with a grain of salt.
00:43:51.240 --> 00:43:53.832 Nancy Harris (she/her): so yeah, I I
00:43:54.670 --> 00:43:57.190 Nancy Harris (she/her): I'm a big proponent again, and kind of looking
00:43:57.310 --> 00:44:01.580 Nancy Harris (she/her): at this broader picture and not just singularly focusing on.
00:44:02.200 --> 00:44:12.390 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I mean, every time I do a 3 60 debrief with a leader, I'm like, let's skip to the bottom. Tell me your relationships with every person that you invited to do this. 3, 60.
00:44:12.390 --> 00:44:13.940 Nancy Harris (she/her): Exactly.
00:44:13.940 --> 00:44:22.279 Mira Brancu: About like their perspective and what they what's important to them. And does that? How does that compare with what's important to you and others?
00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:31.440 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah. And then the power dynamics. Right? It's like, I got people who are. Yeah. So you and I could probably go do a whole nother session on 3, 16, and.
00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:32.460 Mira Brancu: That's right. That's right.
00:44:32.460 --> 00:44:32.990 Nancy Harris (she/her): Change there.
00:44:33.208 --> 00:44:35.830 Mira Brancu: The the right, the output is only as good as the input.
00:44:35.830 --> 00:44:37.269 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yes, exactly.
00:44:38.200 --> 00:44:42.140 Mira Brancu: All right. So we are reaching another ad rate. Your
00:44:42.170 --> 00:44:47.789 Mira Brancu: listening to the hard skills with me and Nancy Harris, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:46:55.690 --> 00:47:01.810 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Bronco and our guest today, Nancy Harris.
00:47:02.080 --> 00:47:03.170 Mira Brancu: Now
00:47:04.121 --> 00:47:09.419 Mira Brancu: we have been talking a lot about your ecosystem assessment, because I'm obsessed with it. But
00:47:09.600 --> 00:47:13.909 Mira Brancu: you also have a new leader
00:47:14.260 --> 00:47:15.230 Mira Brancu: framework.
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:25.730 Mira Brancu: and I would love to hear about how they're how they're complementary or how they work together to help leaders with this transition phase.
00:47:26.090 --> 00:47:27.750 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah. So I almost
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:31.040 Nancy Harris (she/her): use the ecosystem assessment as my
00:47:31.240 --> 00:47:33.500 Nancy Harris (she/her): tool. Obviously, it helps
00:47:34.050 --> 00:47:40.369 Nancy Harris (she/her): the leader. It helps the individuals in the organization as well in terms of supporting the new leader.
00:47:40.670 --> 00:47:49.260 Nancy Harris (she/her): But this new leader change model, I think you asked me earlier on, like, how you know, when did you start thinking about this? I said about 10 years ago.
00:47:49.560 --> 00:47:56.339 Nancy Harris (she/her): So it was about 10 years ago that myself and a colleague of mine from Accenture
00:47:57.020 --> 00:48:02.400 Nancy Harris (she/her): started, you know, contemplating thinking about? Why are new leaders struggling?
00:48:02.500 --> 00:48:11.730 Nancy Harris (she/her): And we said, You know why we thought about it through this lens of change management? Because that's a lot of the work in which we had done.
00:48:11.960 --> 00:48:19.100 Nancy Harris (she/her): And so we came up with these 5 C's. So this is something like, if I just had to hand something over to
00:48:19.807 --> 00:48:27.480 Nancy Harris (she/her): someone who is stepping into a new leadership role. This would be the framework that that I would give them. And
00:48:27.680 --> 00:48:48.019 Nancy Harris (she/her): I'm happy to go over it, you know, in in very high level with you. But that's really the the differentiation between between the 2. You could probably use an ecosystem assessment, not necessarily for somebody stepping into a new leadership role, right? Whereas this is and was specifically designed with
00:48:48.090 --> 00:49:06.859 Nancy Harris (she/her): that lens of change. And I think, I said, it's the change for yourself. Because when you're stepping into this new leadership role, we have all these internal changes. And you know this probably better than I do with your background in in, in therapy and psychotherapy. Right? So there's that self self change.
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:10.829 Nancy Harris (she/her): You're also impacting change among your team?
00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:14.020 Nancy Harris (she/her): And if you are in a more senior role.
00:49:14.570 --> 00:49:26.399 Nancy Harris (she/her): the broader organization as well, too. So it's all these different pieces that you you touch on and again, I think it's it's it's it's when we talked about transformation.
00:49:26.640 --> 00:49:33.020 Nancy Harris (she/her): So I was like, Oh, it's not onboarding. It's like it's transformation. And it's change. And so we looked at it through that lens.
00:49:33.240 --> 00:49:34.789 Mira Brancu: What? So what are the 5 C's.
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:39.229 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah. So one of the C's is context.
00:49:39.310 --> 00:49:57.659 Nancy Harris (she/her): And so again, oftentimes, we step into these new roles, paying attention to the environment, not just internally, but also externally paying attention to what's going on. So that context, you and I both know anybody leading now.
00:49:57.770 --> 00:49:59.530 Nancy Harris (she/her): And I would say, you know.
00:49:59.730 --> 00:50:04.720 Nancy Harris (she/her): leadership has always been difficult. But, gosh! You know, from the pandemic to now.
00:50:04.820 --> 00:50:17.070 Nancy Harris (she/her): I mean all the things that are coming at at leaders. You've got to pay attention to that context in terms of what's going on inside. And also particularly, this one is like outside of your organization.
00:50:17.260 --> 00:50:20.869 Nancy Harris (she/her): The other thing is the other C is culture, right?
00:50:21.270 --> 00:50:31.979 Nancy Harris (she/her): You may think you know the culture. If you've been in an organization I was coaching a leader who had been in the organization her organization for 17 years.
00:50:32.100 --> 00:50:37.839 Nancy Harris (she/her): and when this leader stepped into the President and CEO role.
00:50:39.270 --> 00:50:39.880 Nancy Harris (she/her): that
00:50:40.820 --> 00:50:45.850 Nancy Harris (she/her): culture, even that culture with within the subculture within the
00:50:46.070 --> 00:50:47.950 Nancy Harris (she/her): was different. Right?
00:50:47.980 --> 00:50:59.940 Nancy Harris (she/her): So it's it's it's kind of knowing and understanding like, what are those unwritten rules? Because, you know, again, oh, I've been in the organization 17 years. Now there's some unwritten rules
00:50:59.990 --> 00:51:09.980 Nancy Harris (she/her): and ways of being and operating, and systems that are going on so really kind of slowing down to say, what? What is the culture in which I'm operating?
00:51:10.710 --> 00:51:13.430 Nancy Harris (she/her): The other thing? The other C is continuity.
00:51:13.450 --> 00:51:24.729 Nancy Harris (she/her): And you you mentioned this before new leader comes in. Change everything. Everybody's fired, they're gone. They've got a new model. This new way of doing things.
00:51:25.310 --> 00:51:36.359 Nancy Harris (she/her): The continuity piece is to ask yourself what needs to stay like, not what needs to go right. Those are usually the 1st things that we can point out.
00:51:36.540 --> 00:51:44.330 Nancy Harris (she/her): But what are some of the things that are working so that you can maintain some of that continuity because you just coming in.
00:51:44.590 --> 00:51:48.660 Nancy Harris (she/her): And this is not a seed. But I'm gonna add, it's like a catalyst for that.
00:51:48.660 --> 00:51:49.000 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:54.050 Nancy Harris (she/her): Or changes. So again, like that can be very
00:51:54.100 --> 00:51:58.699 Nancy Harris (she/her): discombobulating for people to come in with all of this change. So
00:51:58.830 --> 00:52:04.539 Nancy Harris (she/her): trying to anchor in on some something that can remain the same, so that continuity.
00:52:04.790 --> 00:52:05.400 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:52:05.720 --> 00:52:18.380 Nancy Harris (she/her): Communication, I think communication goes without saying, but I think, as a communications major or undergrad. It. You probably can't understate it right. Who are you communicating to like
00:52:19.130 --> 00:52:24.119 Nancy Harris (she/her): communication? Right, communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate. You cannot
00:52:24.990 --> 00:52:26.150 Nancy Harris (she/her): in any way
00:52:26.240 --> 00:52:27.600 Nancy Harris (she/her): under communication.
00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:34.069 Nancy Harris (she/her): and the other thing the other. The final one is community.
00:52:34.360 --> 00:52:37.310 Nancy Harris (she/her): But it's community in a slightly different sense.
00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:40.299 Nancy Harris (she/her): It's community in terms of
00:52:40.330 --> 00:52:48.719 Nancy Harris (she/her): your own support team. What's the community that you need to build around you as a new leader.
00:52:49.554 --> 00:53:01.179 Nancy Harris (she/her): Internally. Hmm, but also externally, probably almost depending on your role, maybe more so externally as well. Because if you're the CEO and President.
00:53:02.330 --> 00:53:10.949 Nancy Harris (she/her): it. It's it's hard, right? You're going to need to have some a support network to build outside of that, so that that
00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:14.230 Nancy Harris (she/her): final one is the community, and I think
00:53:14.910 --> 00:53:17.929 Nancy Harris (she/her): I don't want to say one is more important than the other. But
00:53:18.620 --> 00:53:25.990 Nancy Harris (she/her): those roles are lonely. I would say it's lonely at the top, and if you don't have a support
00:53:26.030 --> 00:53:28.212 Nancy Harris (she/her): network of community
00:53:29.950 --> 00:53:32.390 Nancy Harris (she/her): it's extremely difficult.
00:53:32.690 --> 00:53:35.250 Mira Brancu: It is. And not only that. I
00:53:35.500 --> 00:53:36.910 Mira Brancu: I I know
00:53:38.070 --> 00:53:40.099 Mira Brancu: quite a number of
00:53:40.640 --> 00:53:45.384 Mira Brancu: leaders, and especially women, although I work with mostly women. So you know
00:53:46.050 --> 00:53:47.290 Mira Brancu: that
00:53:49.530 --> 00:53:50.560 Mira Brancu: thought
00:53:50.770 --> 00:53:53.180 Mira Brancu: that they could place
00:53:53.330 --> 00:53:56.190 Mira Brancu: their entire career at the hands of their
00:53:56.520 --> 00:53:57.800 Mira Brancu: supervisor.
00:53:57.950 --> 00:54:05.230 Mira Brancu: and how many times that blew up, either because the Supervisor left for a new position, or because something happened and
00:54:05.550 --> 00:54:07.829 Mira Brancu: organizational change or
00:54:08.252 --> 00:54:13.200 Mira Brancu: that supervisor ended up not being the most healthy kind of relationship
00:54:13.270 --> 00:54:17.610 Mira Brancu: and without creating that community that you just described.
00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:19.229 Mira Brancu: They were trapped.
00:54:19.230 --> 00:54:19.700 Nancy Harris (she/her): Yeah.
00:54:19.700 --> 00:54:20.960 Mira Brancu: There was no no
00:54:21.120 --> 00:54:26.159 Mira Brancu: other way out, and it was it broke my heart, you know, because by then
00:54:26.350 --> 00:54:33.000 Mira Brancu: it takes so much more to develop that community that late in, you know, in their you know, career experience. So
00:54:33.220 --> 00:54:35.949 Mira Brancu: I completely agree. All of these honestly
00:54:36.250 --> 00:54:38.069 Mira Brancu: are spot on.
00:54:38.150 --> 00:54:39.170 Mira Brancu: I just
00:54:39.390 --> 00:54:44.529 Mira Brancu: please tell me you either wrote a book. You're writing a book on this. You're planning to write a book on this, please, Nancy.
00:54:45.700 --> 00:54:51.678 Nancy Harris (she/her): Gosh! You're putting me on the spot. I I wasn't thinking of writing a book about it, but I don't know. Maybe.
00:54:52.150 --> 00:54:53.390 Mira Brancu: Let's talk, offline all.
00:54:53.390 --> 00:54:54.240 Nancy Harris (she/her): Okay. All right.
00:54:54.240 --> 00:54:58.921 Mira Brancu: I'm like, this is a book. Where's the book, Nancy?
00:54:59.620 --> 00:55:05.109 Mira Brancu: All right, we'll talk about that. What is one thing that you would like people to take away from today.
00:55:10.690 --> 00:55:12.289 Nancy Harris (she/her): You don't have to do it alone.
00:55:15.230 --> 00:55:15.840 Mira Brancu: That's good.
00:55:18.600 --> 00:55:22.589 Nancy Harris (she/her): find again whether it's it's it's a community of peers.
00:55:23.392 --> 00:55:28.609 Nancy Harris (she/her): I would tell people this, if you're stepping in, especially a senior level role.
00:55:28.740 --> 00:55:29.900 Nancy Harris (she/her): Vp. Of it.
00:55:29.950 --> 00:55:31.920 Nancy Harris (she/her): Ask for a coach upfront.
00:55:32.210 --> 00:55:37.649 Nancy Harris (she/her): Ask negotiate that. I'm not saying that, because you know, it'd be me. I don't care who it is right.
00:55:38.250 --> 00:55:43.769 Nancy Harris (she/her): Ensure that you have an outside perspective
00:55:44.851 --> 00:55:47.310 Nancy Harris (she/her): to be able to help you through.
00:55:47.490 --> 00:55:48.630 Nancy Harris (she/her): Because
00:55:49.970 --> 00:55:53.570 Nancy Harris (she/her): we we talked about the statistics. It's it's a
00:55:53.790 --> 00:56:00.169 Nancy Harris (she/her): it's it's it's tough, but it can be done. Just make sure you've got your support in place.
00:56:00.510 --> 00:56:01.750 Mira Brancu: Yes, and
00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:07.720 Mira Brancu: where can people find you if they're seeking support specifically from a coach and consultant like you?
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:13.879 Nancy Harris (she/her): Well, they can go to restart, consult.com, which is my website, which is completely
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:18.479 Nancy Harris (she/her): in the process of being revamped. So it's not gonna look anything like really.
00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:19.210 Mira Brancu: I like.
00:56:19.210 --> 00:56:29.930 Nancy Harris (she/her): Oh, oh, it's gonna be totally different. I'm not saying that. Oh, it's it's yeah going under a complete rebrand, also on Linkedin as well, too, under Nancy Harris.
00:56:31.240 --> 00:56:44.999 Nancy Harris (she/her): and I'm also on Instagram. But I don't try to find me there. I mean, I put, I post my podcast on Instagram. So that's primarily what I use that for. But I'm much more active on on Linkedin.
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:52.320 Mira Brancu: Excellent, excellent, and audience, what did you take away? And, more importantly, what is one small change you can implement this week.
00:56:52.370 --> 00:56:54.720 Mira Brancu: based on what you learned from Nancy.
00:56:54.790 --> 00:57:08.949 Mira Brancu: Share it with with us on Linkedin, not on Instagram and at Talkradio, Nyc. So we can cheer you on. We're also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter twitch. That's where talk radio. Nyc is also all over the place
00:57:09.090 --> 00:57:09.835 Mira Brancu: and
00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:30.329 Mira Brancu: in addition to being a live show, we're on apple spotify and Amazon podcasts help increase our visibility reach and impact. By leaving a review. The stuff we talk about on this show is part of our research based strategic leadership, pathway, roadmap that we teach in our tower Scope Leadership Academy. You can check it out at Gotowerscope. Com.
00:57:30.930 --> 00:57:38.569 Mira Brancu: Thank you to talk radio Nyc for hosting. I'm Dr. Mara Bronco, your host of the Hard Skills show and thank you for joining us today.
00:57:38.680 --> 00:57:44.349 Mira Brancu: Nancy Harris, and have a great rest of your day, wherever you're tuning in from everybody. Bye.
00:57:44.350 --> 00:57:45.610 Nancy Harris (she/her): Thank you.
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