Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
This episode will be part celebration, part reflection, and part insight. We will be celebrating what we learned from 1 year of hosting a live radio show and podcast, looking back at some of the highlights, and also sharing specific data on a group coaching program that follows the framework that our seasons have been focusing on this past year: Navigating Uncertainty, Developing Leadership Identity, Mapping a Strategy, Navigating Complexity, and Making a Greater Impact.
WHAT YOU WILL LEARN:
How do you make an impact on leadership development in a large healthcare system where people generally work in siloes? How can you help clinical and academic leaders feel more prepared and more supported to create organizational change and lead in times of uncertainty?
We will review our proprietary research-based 5-stage Strategic Leadership Pathway model and the results from a program evaluation study of this model conducted at Duke University and presented at the Pediatric Academic Societies Meeting.
We'll explore questions such as:
1. What might be the impetus for starting a group coaching program within academic healthcare - what was the need identified and why group coaching?
2. What can you expect to gain from such a program and what are the implications?
3. What impact could this kind of program potentially serve in highly complex academic medicine and healthcare environments in supporting leaders in those environments.
And we'll also celebrate 50 episodes and 1 year of doing this radio show!
***
ABOUT OUR GUESTS:
Dr. Mara Becker, MD, MSCE, is a physician-scientist and Vice Dean for Faculty of Duke University School of Medicine's Office of Faculty. She oversees the Office for Faculty and provides leadership on all faculty matters including advancement, development, mentoring and professionalism. Her previous translational research focused on identifying factors that enhance response and minimize toxicity to drugs used for the treatment of rheumatic diseases in children, focusing on individualized therapeutic strategies. She previously served as Division Director of Rheumatology and Associate Chair for the Department of Pediatrics at Children’s Mercy-Kansas City. Dr. Becker is actively involved in national committees and organizations including the FDA Arthritis Advisory Committee, American College of Rheumatology, American Board of Pediatrics, Rheumatology Research Foundation Board of Directors, and Childhood Arthritis and Rheumatology Research Alliance.
Jessica Schonberg, M.Ed. is their Director of Educational Programs for Duke University School of Medicine's Office of Faculty. She directs and oversees their Leadership and Faculty Development and funding programs. Jessica has a Master's degree in Training and Development from North Carolina State University.
Jessica Sperling, Ph.D., is and Assistant Professor of Internal Medicine at Duke University, as well as the Director of Applied Research, Evaluation, & Engagement of Duke University's Social Science Research Institute (SSRI). She focuses on responsive and collaborative research, evaluation, and research/practice partnership. At Duke, her work has focused on education, healthcare delivery, diversity/inequality, and innovation/pilot programming. She holds a Ph.D. in Sociology from the Graduate Center of the City University of New York.
***
IF YOU ENJOYED THIS EPISODE, CAN I ASK A FAVOR?
We do not receive any funding or sponsorship for this podcast. If you learned something and feel others could also benefit, please leave a positive review. Every review helps amplify our work and visibility. This is especially helpful for small women-owned boot-strapped businesses. Simply go to the bottom of the Apple Podcast page to enter a review. Thank you!
***
LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
Guest Website: https://medschool.duke.edu/blog/piloting-leadership-group-coaching-program-pediatric-division-chiefs#sq_hro4iausqfOur website: www.gotowerscope.com
#StrategicLeadershipPathwayModel #LeadershipGroupCoaching #LeadershipDevelopment #TheHardSkills #Healthcare #Academia #Results #Celebrating1Year
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
00:00:51.430 --> 00:01:03.299 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the nuanced hard skills meaning the most challenging soft skills needed to make a real impact through your leadership.
00:01:03.550 --> 00:01:05.390 Mira Brancu: This episode will be
00:01:05.570 --> 00:01:07.079 Mira Brancu: part celebration.
00:01:07.410 --> 00:01:10.349 Mira Brancu: part reflection and part insight.
00:01:10.580 --> 00:01:14.199 Mira Brancu: We're gonna be celebrating what we learned from a year
00:01:14.290 --> 00:01:22.140 Mira Brancu: of hosting, a live radio show. And podcast looking back at some of the highlights like.
00:01:22.410 --> 00:01:28.550 Mira Brancu: just how many times did we use the word leadership on our show. Do you know, maybe you'll find out today.
00:01:28.900 --> 00:01:34.550 Mira Brancu: and we have some duke researchers here and program leaders who will be sharing the results
00:01:34.820 --> 00:01:47.749 Mira Brancu: of a group coaching program that applied my strategic pathway model framework that we've been talking about this whole season this past year, and we will be answering questions like
00:01:48.090 --> 00:01:53.709 Mira Brancu: what might be the impetus for starting a group coaching program within an academic healthcare system?
00:01:53.720 --> 00:02:06.560 Mira Brancu: What is the need identified there? Why group coaching? And what is the impact on how it can support leaders within large, highly complex academic medicine and healthcare environments and beyond.
00:02:07.100 --> 00:02:12.460 Mira Brancu: I'm your host, Dr. Mirabu, and I'm a leadership consulting and coaching psychologist.
00:02:12.490 --> 00:02:27.970 Mira Brancu: also founder of Towerscope Leadership Academy, an associate professor, a psychology today columnist, author of the Millennials Guide to workplace politics and had my own leadership career before transitioning to helping teams and high achieving women navigate their leadership complexities.
00:02:28.670 --> 00:02:33.509 Mira Brancu: Okay, so let's start with the celebration. So
00:02:33.590 --> 00:02:38.839 Mira Brancu: like I said, I'm celebrating one year and 50 episodes. Now.
00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:53.539 Mira Brancu: our engineer corrected me, he said. We're technically at 52. But if I'm not counting age, I'm not counting this. I'm counting 50 episodes. So this is actually, I'm pretty sure, a year at the exact year mark. So
00:02:54.091 --> 00:02:56.299 Mira Brancu: here's a few fun facts.
00:02:56.380 --> 00:03:07.470 Mira Brancu: My operations. Manager, Maria Usach did an important research review of the episodes, and proudly exclaimed that we have said the word leadership
00:03:07.720 --> 00:03:13.159 Mira Brancu: 1,177 times, according to the transcripts.
00:03:13.550 --> 00:03:18.790 Mira Brancu: Now, I actually feel like it's been said even more times than that. But
00:03:19.110 --> 00:03:25.500 Mira Brancu: and I feel like that's not nearly enough. But maybe we can make up for it on this show.
00:03:26.580 --> 00:03:28.810 Mira Brancu: All right. How about this?
00:03:29.320 --> 00:03:33.260 Mira Brancu: The 7 most common topics we talked about?
00:03:34.320 --> 00:03:35.729 Mira Brancu: We're around
00:03:35.940 --> 00:03:40.520 Mira Brancu: Number one making career and leadership decisions.
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.260 Mira Brancu: Even when you don't have the full plan laid out.
00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:48.359 Mira Brancu: We did that with guests such as Kerry, Patterson, Karen, Edwards.
00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:50.010 Mira Brancu: Olivia Notison.
00:03:50.260 --> 00:03:51.529 Mira Brancu: Dory, Clark.
00:03:51.580 --> 00:03:54.150 Mira Brancu: Lisa de Angelis and Sharon Holm.
00:03:55.428 --> 00:04:03.509 Mira Brancu: Integrating technology is the second topic area. Like my interviews with guests like Ernest Wade and Jonathan Kirchner.
00:04:03.860 --> 00:04:12.320 Mira Brancu: we talked about new types of leadership models with people like Tracy Calandrillo and her responsive leadership model.
00:04:12.510 --> 00:04:15.190 Mira Brancu: We talked about unlocking self-trust
00:04:15.220 --> 00:04:19.549 Mira Brancu: with guests like Jesse Janelle and Dr. Vanessa Rodenberry.
00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:23.960 Mira Brancu: We talked about authenticity and values
00:04:24.010 --> 00:04:29.459 Mira Brancu: with guests like Laura Eigal and Mickey, Feldman, Simon and Alexis Francis.
00:04:29.770 --> 00:04:32.520 Mira Brancu: We talked about resilience culture
00:04:32.820 --> 00:04:39.059 Mira Brancu: with guests such as Dr. Maria Ln. Pelletier and Ken Noak.
00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:43.540 Mira Brancu: and Number 7, navigating a variety
00:04:43.640 --> 00:04:55.410 Mira Brancu: of diversity, equity, and inclusion, challenges with guests such as Dr. Ramana, Bilraman Nori, Jaba, Gareth, Gwyned, Lidmilla, Preslova, and Christian Nunes.
00:04:56.410 --> 00:05:05.309 Mira Brancu: The themes of navigating workplace, politics supporting women, and leadership and diversity. Equity inclusion were kind of discussions that were infused throughout most of them.
00:05:05.320 --> 00:05:10.479 Mira Brancu: So I guess those are the things I'm into, because I keep wanting to bring people back about that
00:05:11.715 --> 00:05:12.480 Mira Brancu: and
00:05:12.750 --> 00:05:26.090 Mira Brancu: we did get the chance to do some live coaching sessions supporting several superstar women in business, including Elisa, Herr of Unity Web Agency, and Ainslie Cesnack of speak out sisterhood.
00:05:26.790 --> 00:05:31.369 Mira Brancu: Now, we also were able to
00:05:31.690 --> 00:05:55.810 Mira Brancu: discuss a variety of really interesting books. And this is kind of partly what I love about this show and podcast is that I was able to read a lot more because I had an excuse. I had to read them in order to talk about them. Right? So I'm going to, just if you're watching right now. Here are the books, and if you're watching the recording
00:05:55.840 --> 00:06:06.189 Mira Brancu: you can see them. But I'm going to list them out to you if you're just listening later on. Just the audio. So 16 books we covered bulletproof by Rob Fazio
00:06:06.500 --> 00:06:09.219 Mira Brancu: keeping your seat at the table by Nori Java
00:06:09.310 --> 00:06:13.190 Mira Brancu: becoming coachable with Jacqueline Lane and Scott Osman.
00:06:14.063 --> 00:06:16.629 Mira Brancu: Values 1st by Laura Igele.
00:06:17.150 --> 00:06:27.059 Mira Brancu: the long game and entrepreneurial you and reinventing you and stand out by Dory Clark, the Canary Code, by Lidmilla Proslova.
00:06:27.580 --> 00:06:31.130 Mira Brancu: The leadership signature by Greg Pennington
00:06:31.260 --> 00:06:35.390 Mira Brancu: becoming a strategic leader by George Watts and Lori Blazic
00:06:36.070 --> 00:06:39.920 Mira Brancu: work from the inside out by Tammy Gollerie. Oh.
00:06:40.060 --> 00:06:41.749 Mira Brancu: spelled it wrong. There. I'm gonna
00:06:42.490 --> 00:06:49.449 Mira Brancu: fix it just for her. Live right now in person. Okay, the resilience plan. Dr. Maria Lynn Pelletier.
00:06:49.510 --> 00:06:52.369 Mira Brancu: Professional Careers by Design, by Sharon, Hope
00:06:52.440 --> 00:06:55.010 Mira Brancu: Brick by Brick, by Cedric Williams.
00:06:55.090 --> 00:06:58.469 Mira Brancu: embracing the Unknown, by Lisa de Angelis.
00:06:58.620 --> 00:07:01.709 Mira Brancu: suddenly in charge by Roberta Madison.
00:07:02.500 --> 00:07:05.530 Mira Brancu: Let's go by Jamie Ramzen
00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:10.350 Mira Brancu: and developing anti-racist cultural competence by Dr. Ramana, dilrapan.
00:07:10.910 --> 00:07:15.420 Mira Brancu: And there's some media and products that we also covered
00:07:15.928 --> 00:07:23.740 Mira Brancu: different people podcast and test bias.com were also developed by Dr. Raman, Abdul Rahman.
00:07:23.980 --> 00:07:38.409 Mira Brancu: The let's see labs were developed by Gareth, Gwyn Equiskills app by Mini and was developed by Dr. Sarah Rabinovich, the Cdr. 3. Dimensional assessment suite. What I personally use is by Nancy Parsons
00:07:38.540 --> 00:07:44.369 Mira Brancu: and work from the inside out podcast is by Tammy Golder, Loeb, okay.
00:07:44.580 --> 00:07:47.300 Mira Brancu: so these are
00:07:47.350 --> 00:07:50.549 Mira Brancu: super interesting. And I can't wait
00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:56.439 Mira Brancu: for this coming year where I get to cover even more books and even more media and more products. So
00:07:57.070 --> 00:08:00.360 Mira Brancu: stand stay tuned for more of that
00:08:00.730 --> 00:08:01.770 Mira Brancu: pretty cool.
00:08:02.430 --> 00:08:07.410 Mira Brancu: I'm pretty proud I'm pretty excited about that. But without any further ado.
00:08:07.430 --> 00:08:12.680 Mira Brancu: I am so excited to introduce our special guests today. So
00:08:13.050 --> 00:08:16.070 Mira Brancu: 1st we have Dr. Mara Becker.
00:08:16.530 --> 00:08:24.240 Mira Brancu: Dr. Becker is a physician, scientist, and Vice Dean for Faculty and Duke of Duke University School of Medicine's Office of Faculty.
00:08:24.380 --> 00:08:32.779 Mira Brancu: She provides leadership on all faculty matters, including advancement, development, mentoring, and professionalism for faculty within school medicine.
00:08:33.650 --> 00:08:44.019 Mira Brancu: Her previous translational research focused on optimizing treatment and creating individualized therapeutic strategies for rheumat rheumatic diseases in children
00:08:44.490 --> 00:08:56.760 Mira Brancu: super interesting background. She previously also served as division director of Rheumatology and Associate chair for the Department of Pediatrics and at children's Mercy in Kansas City.
00:08:57.380 --> 00:08:57.960 Mira Brancu: Okay.
00:08:58.550 --> 00:09:00.310 Mira Brancu: I could go on and on about these
00:09:00.470 --> 00:09:15.070 Mira Brancu: people's backgrounds here, by the way, but like we, we have limited time. Okay, folks, okay, moving on. Next, we have Jessica Schaunberg. She's the director of Educational programs at the Duke University School of Medicine Office of Faculty. So she works with Doctor Manorbecker.
00:09:15.350 --> 00:09:39.380 Mira Brancu: She has more than 15 years of experience developing and implementing professional development programs for faculty at all career stages. She has particular interest in leadership development support for women leaders and the use of restorative practices to increase connection and improve culture. Boy, don't we need more of that right now? Jessica has a master of education and training and development from North Carolina State University.
00:09:40.180 --> 00:09:43.350 Mira Brancu: and then, last, but not least, Jessica Sperling.
00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:56.799 Mira Brancu: Hc. She is an assistant professor of Internal Medicine at Duke University, as well as the Director of Applied Research, Evaluation and Engagement of Duke University's Social Science Research Institute. Ssri
00:09:56.900 --> 00:09:58.299 Mira Brancu: is the short of it.
00:09:58.530 --> 00:10:04.810 Mira Brancu: She focuses on responsive and collaborative research evaluation and research and practice partnerships.
00:10:05.130 --> 00:10:08.050 Mira Brancu: At Duke. Her work has focused on education.
00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:13.360 Mira Brancu: healthcare, delivery, diversity and inequality and innovation and pilot programming.
00:10:13.920 --> 00:10:19.350 Mira Brancu: She holds a Phd in sociology from the graduate center of the City University of New York.
00:10:19.900 --> 00:10:25.379 Mira Brancu: All right, welcome and great to have you on the show. Mara, Jessica and Jessica.
00:10:26.730 --> 00:10:37.059 Mara Becker, M.D.: Thank you. We're really excited to be here. I had to hold myself back from unmuting earlier to comment on all your cool books and all your cool media. So thank you for having us.
00:10:37.340 --> 00:10:52.240 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So let's let's get into it. That Mara, we're gonna start with you. You have spearheaded what we're gonna be talking a lot about which is the idea of
00:10:53.210 --> 00:10:55.310 Mira Brancu: infusing a new
00:10:55.340 --> 00:10:58.589 Mira Brancu: group coaching program right? And
00:10:59.260 --> 00:11:09.200 Mira Brancu: let's sort of backtrack, though, thinking through like, how did you get to this space? How did you get to this place? You were a clinician and a researcher.
00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:16.440 Mira Brancu: and you are interested in pediatric rheumatoid conditions that has nothing to do with what you're doing now. Okay, so over time.
00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:18.405 Mara Becker, M.D.: Don't remind us.
00:11:19.300 --> 00:11:24.149 Mira Brancu: Of us have this experience right over time. You took on leadership roles
00:11:25.086 --> 00:11:26.460 Mira Brancu: so like.
00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:44.810 Mira Brancu: Talk with us about that transition that you went through through your own leadership journey. What did you see happen over time for you? What did you see as a need? How did you come to this sort of like important leap about thinking through the importance of offering this kind of program.
00:11:45.090 --> 00:11:48.840 Mara Becker, M.D.: Sure. Thank you. Thank you for asking, and I do think it's really
00:11:48.920 --> 00:12:13.639 Mara Becker, M.D.: interesting how your career takes such unexpected turns, and I'm sure you'd say the same thing, as many of your guests, I'm sure, would say, and I sometimes attribute that to academic medicine. But you can see it in all fields, particularly in academic medicine. So, as you mentioned, I'm a pediatric rheumatologist, which is a small and quirky field, so we take care of children who have rheumatic conditions like lupus, scleroderma, arthritis
00:12:13.929 --> 00:12:28.419 Mara Becker, M.D.: and I loved it. And actually, I went into medicine, thinking I wanted to do that like Norman Rockwell painting of the guy out in the community just taking care of of the people, and I never wanted to go into administration. In fact, I thought it was like.
00:12:29.540 --> 00:12:36.040 Mara Becker, M.D.: And so I remember telling my mentors, well, I'm just gonna see patients forever. And as
00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:55.760 Mara Becker, M.D.: I got into it there were questions that I had and started to get a little bit into research, as you mentioned, and tried to answer why, our kids were not tolerating medicines, the way I would expect, which was terrific and a really interesting exploration. And over time I realized, though, that if I wanted to be part of the change
00:12:55.770 --> 00:13:06.960 Mara Becker, M.D.: I wanted to be part of creating strategy in the field, or creating strategy for the way we care for children, or the way that we evolved in medicine, like, I really needed to have a seat at the table
00:13:06.970 --> 00:13:18.320 Mara Becker, M.D.: and early in my career my division chief or division director left, and I self advocated to my chair, and I said, Well, why don't you consider me for that job? Because
00:13:18.640 --> 00:13:23.780 Mara Becker, M.D.: not me. Who else? Who else could do a better job, and so help me God, he gave it to me so I was like.
00:13:23.780 --> 00:13:24.570 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:13:24.570 --> 00:13:45.850 Mara Becker, M.D.: Yeah, no, it was one of those moments where I was kind of proud of myself. For advocating for to consider me in that role, and I didn't know what the heck I was doing. But I realized very quickly in that role that what I loved the most about it was the people was helping to support the people that I was leading.
00:13:46.010 --> 00:14:15.140 Mara Becker, M.D.: and that began to grow into other leadership roles in the department, and I realized that it wasn't just. It was that interpersonal kind of relational aspect of leadership that really drew me into this role and over time, even though I mean, yes, we can handle a budget. Yes, I can handle research. The truth is, I love the development of people and helping them to navigate their own careers and thinking about their own futures. And so, as positions in the faculty affairs, space started to open up.
00:14:16.400 --> 00:14:25.569 Mara Becker, M.D.: and I moved to Duke in 2,019 as as in a role at the department level for pediatrics, I realized how much I loved kind of
00:14:25.770 --> 00:14:43.189 Mara Becker, M.D.: helping people sponsoring people, shepherding people through their own careers, helping them kind of resolve, thorny conflict. All the people stuff that some people shy away from, because it's thorny and messy and not always fun, but that was the element of leadership that I really loved. And so but I think it's been interesting for me.
00:14:43.240 --> 00:15:04.340 Mara Becker, M.D.: My growth edge, for sure has been. You know. I started off leading people like me in my field, quirky, weird little pediatric rheumatologists who they're like 300 of us in the country and then moved to other pediatric sub specialists. So I got to interact with neurologists and cardiologists and gastrologists. And they're all have their own little different personalities.
00:15:04.340 --> 00:15:28.040 Mara Becker, M.D.: And now I'm in a school position where I help with faculty affairs, people of all different fields. And so that has been a really interesting, always different challenge for me, because I realize that you know, people are complex and they're particularly complex around different types of fields of medicine. And it's never dull.
00:15:28.450 --> 00:15:29.689 Mira Brancu: Yeah, that's the problem.
00:15:29.963 --> 00:15:30.510 Mara Becker, M.D.: About it.
00:15:30.690 --> 00:15:32.779 Mira Brancu: So let's
00:15:33.070 --> 00:15:37.199 Mira Brancu: let's stop there before we reach our ad break
00:15:37.290 --> 00:15:40.340 Mira Brancu: and when we come back. Let's
00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:45.440 Mira Brancu: talk more about what it is that you saw in your own journey
00:15:45.460 --> 00:15:58.310 Mira Brancu: and Jessica also, I'll be asking you, Shawn Berg. I'll be asking you kind of what you're seeing from faculty development perspective about various needs.
00:15:58.350 --> 00:16:12.489 Mira Brancu: and we'll break it down from there. Okay, you're listening to the heart skills with me, Doctor Maya Brancu and our guests, Doctor Mary Becker, Jessica Schaunberg, and Jessica Sperling. We air on Tuesdays at 5 PM. Eastern time.
00:16:12.510 --> 00:16:14.730 Mira Brancu: If you would like to join us online
00:16:14.930 --> 00:16:16.660 Mira Brancu: right now and ask us
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:25.509 Mira Brancu: any questions in real time. You can find us right now on Linkedin or Youtube at Talkradio, NYC, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:18:38.080 --> 00:18:52.200 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the heart scales with me, Doctor Mirabu and our guest today, Mara Becker, Jessica Schoenberg, which I was misspelling, Miss pronouncing the whole entire time. And Jessica Sperling. Okay, so
00:18:52.260 --> 00:19:07.951 Mira Brancu: this is kind of a a broad question. And Jessica Sperling, I, our engineer, told me just to call you by your last names, because there's 2. Jessica's with the same initial last name, and maybe I might do just do that.
00:19:08.630 --> 00:19:26.749 Mira Brancu: I'm gonna open this up for for all of you. Jessica Sperling, even though you are here to talk about the research. piece of it, because that was your contribution. Definitely opening it up to like any experiences that you have had along the way as well that connect to to all of this.
00:19:28.280 --> 00:19:30.929 Mira Brancu: as you're you're thinking about.
00:19:31.710 --> 00:19:38.529 Mira Brancu: you know the the challenges that faculty face, and especially faculty and leadership roles.
00:19:39.581 --> 00:19:46.330 Mira Brancu: What are sort of common themes. Experiences needs that. You see that you felt like
00:19:46.856 --> 00:19:51.379 Mira Brancu: coaching, not just individual coaching, but maybe group coaching could help with
00:19:51.839 --> 00:20:02.709 Mira Brancu: and you can pull from your personal experiences. You could pull from also, like the the people that you see and and the stories that you've sort of heard about as well.
00:20:04.850 --> 00:20:07.349 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): I can. I can start with that. If that would be helpful.
00:20:07.350 --> 00:20:07.750 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:20:07.750 --> 00:20:34.330 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): So I think that in my experience doing leadership development work, one of the most common themes that stands out is that people are often promoted on one set of skills and then have to rely very heavily on an entirely different set of skills in order to be successful in their leadership role. And I think that that's true in at all different levels of leadership. You know, when you become a physician or assigned
00:20:34.330 --> 00:20:57.469 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): scientists, there's a very clear training program to make sure that you have the skills that you need to succeed when you get started in that role. And that path doesn't really exist in any clear fashion for leadership. And so I think some of the biggest things that bubble up are the people management that Mara was talking about the interpersonal conflict
00:20:57.791 --> 00:21:22.229 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): managing other people who perhaps you were peers with at some point in the not too distant past. And now you have this responsibility for setting the direction, setting the vision for that group. And then there's a separate set of skills around managing budgets and money and that kind of thing that I think is perhaps less suited to the the coaching that we're talking about today. But I definitely think that
00:21:22.230 --> 00:21:32.080 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): the people management is something that you aren't necessarily taught in training, but if you can't do it you're highly unlikely to be successful.
00:21:32.650 --> 00:21:42.049 Mara Becker, M.D.: I'm gonna piggyback quickly, because I do think that is perfect and so accurate. And a huge reason for why we embark in this work
00:21:42.050 --> 00:22:06.730 Mara Becker, M.D.: and think about it in a academic medicine who are, I mean, it's scientists. It's people who are super successful researchers or clinicians or educators. They're experts in their field. There's no questioning that, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they've been cultivating this other component of their skill set right. And so a lot of times you find some of these folks that have been promoted to leadership roles which you understand why they might be
00:22:06.730 --> 00:22:20.010 Mara Becker, M.D.: so well known and so successful in in certain domains. But we're just awakening, I think, right now to recognizing the importance of developing leadership skills. Along the way as well.
00:22:20.870 --> 00:22:21.400 Mara Becker, M.D.: Yeah.
00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:24.112 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): We'll build on that a tiny bit.
00:22:24.850 --> 00:22:34.727 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): just to 1st of all, echo all of that that skills in one area don't mean skills in another. And they're very science and leadership or not. You know, they're they're not the same
00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:42.209 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): But I think, perhaps also relevant is that people coming into these roles have typically excelled.
00:22:42.270 --> 00:23:00.449 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): You're used to being good and doing, you know, and working hard, of course, but really speaking to your strengths and your capacities. And so then, coming into something that does actually require a very different skill set that you might not be as well versed in that can be a challenging thing, and it can be challenging to say, Hey, I need help.
00:23:00.870 --> 00:23:06.330 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): And so this is also something that that might be a little bit.
00:23:06.670 --> 00:23:11.950 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): or are problematic into jumping into something that really is very different and very new.
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:34.921 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. I mean the way that I'm I'm thinking about this as you're describing it is, you know. I, okay, I think about my kids right? And my kids might demonstrate some interests and some raw, you know skills in certain areas. And so then they start specializing more and more in certain areas. And now they're all of a sudden they're really good at this one thing right? And
00:23:35.420 --> 00:23:36.350 Mira Brancu: you know.
00:23:36.580 --> 00:23:54.439 Mira Brancu: we all do that right. We all sort of like demonstrate. We've got these raw materials. And so we start honing those skills. We start specializing all of a sudden. You know, you get through your bachelor's degree. Now, you might want to specialize even more and even more. Some of us go on to, you know.
00:23:55.203 --> 00:24:03.650 Mira Brancu: higher level degrees graduate programs and things like that. All of that is specializing and specializing further and further in certain area.
00:24:03.670 --> 00:24:24.050 Mira Brancu: But now, all of a sudden, we're tapped. Then somebody says, you also have the raw materials for leadership. We've seen you work well with people we've seen, you, you know, like, be able to sort of interact well with people and support people. We'd like to put you in this position. Great. Okay. But then nobody at that point says.
00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:26.949 Mira Brancu: by the way, that's another respecialization.
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:33.880 Mira Brancu: By the way, you need to learn extra brand new skills now in a brand new field called leadership.
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:41.920 Mira Brancu: and that is an extra specialization. Nobody tells you that. And yet that is the reality. That's kind of like. How I sort of condense all of that.
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:48.420 Mara Becker, M.D.: Totally agree. And I think, overall, we spend a lot of time thinking about developing junior
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:51.290 Mara Becker, M.D.: people in medicine and kind of forget.
00:24:51.290 --> 00:24:51.940 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:24:51.940 --> 00:25:17.559 Mara Becker, M.D.: Development's a lifelong thing, and particularly for leaders who might be very senior and not used to being developed. They do need development, especially when it comes to new skill sets and these new roles, but that can get overlooked. I think, in time, as you make this assumption that someone as senior and as established and as good at all these things is that they may also need ongoing development in a whole new skill set.
00:25:18.110 --> 00:25:19.140 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:19.180 --> 00:25:30.700 Mira Brancu: Now let me then, take that a step further. So you've identified the need. We know now why? Right? Most people then think, oh, I need more training
00:25:31.060 --> 00:25:39.789 Mira Brancu: right now. Your office actually does offer lots of training like other sort of off. You know, faculty offices do in leadership development. Right?
00:25:39.840 --> 00:25:42.460 Mira Brancu: So, what made you think
00:25:42.630 --> 00:25:46.279 Mira Brancu: that in addition to the training that you offer, which is
00:25:46.340 --> 00:25:49.748 Mira Brancu: fairly intensive year-long programs?
00:25:50.940 --> 00:25:56.039 Mira Brancu: in addition to that. You felt like in certain cases, or for certain needs.
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:00.730 Mira Brancu: either individual or group coaching would be helpful for certain things.
00:26:02.270 --> 00:26:04.520 Mara Becker, M.D.: Jessica, do you want to start first, st and then I'll piggyback.
00:26:04.520 --> 00:26:28.309 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): Yeah, sure. So I think that our team, our office, we're all big believers in coaching. And I think the 1st model of that that comes to mind is one on one coaching, and we have been fortunate to have some internal faculty at Duke, who have become coach, certified, and been able to provide internal coaching, including Sharon, hold you mentioned as one of the authors that you
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:29.010 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:26:29.010 --> 00:26:52.799 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): Have been talking about. But in addition to that one on one coaching, we actually do. We did have a little bit of experience with group coaching and kind of a different setting. Prior to this experience. In 2 different settings we've used group coaching. One was early on in the pandemic when we were really sort of very quickly, trying to figure out how to best support faculty, who are
00:26:52.800 --> 00:27:17.660 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): understandably very stressed, very frightened, very overloaded and burned out as they navigated both healthcare challenges and all the rest of the stuff that came with the pandemic that we all dealt with. And so we opened up a series of what we called rapid response group coaching sessions. That were open to all faculty in the School of Medicine, and we had a coach who led
00:27:17.660 --> 00:27:18.840 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): each one.
00:27:19.341 --> 00:27:43.950 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): Jody Haws, who's still at Duke, was a part of that. She's a faculty member in neurology, and we sort of loosely laid out some some themes that might be covered during those sessions, but really let whoever showed up help dictate the theme for that day. So each session had a theme, and they talked about things like managing uncertainty, dealing with burnout, trying to find
00:27:43.950 --> 00:28:06.200 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): find opportunities for joy during times of crisis. Balancing, you know, their caregiving load with their professional load during this difficult time. And so we knew that that model was effective for bringing people together around shared challenges and creating a space where they could
00:28:06.250 --> 00:28:30.310 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): both lean on one another for peer support, but also get some facilitated guidance from a coach. And so we've also applied that to a grant that we've run through our office that provides some additional funding and support for faculty, who have significant care, giving challenges and are trying to launch a research career at the same time. So we've implemented that same group coaching model as an additional support
00:28:30.659 --> 00:28:37.659 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): mechanism for for the scholars on that grant, too. So there was a little bit of sort of like
00:28:37.990 --> 00:28:52.430 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): framework, or a little bit of fairy dust out there already, that perhaps this was a model that could work. And then I think Mara came in and started thinking about it with you in the context of leadership development specifically. And so I'll pass it off to her.
00:28:53.310 --> 00:29:11.220 Mara Becker, M.D.: So okay, quick overview before the break reach. Right? I wanted to get this to as many people as possible. We had a lot of new leaders in the department. Sustainability was big. I want to develop a platform where they created a peer mentorship, a peer support group so that they can rely on each other over time.
00:29:11.320 --> 00:29:16.680 Mara Becker, M.D.: Novelty was important. Many of these folks had done our cohort programs had done traditional leadership
00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:19.500 Mara Becker, M.D.: training, but never anything like this.
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:34.290 Mara Becker, M.D.: And really, it's about connectivity and relationship building for me. And I don't think anything can do it quite as well as a group coaching session where people come in and are their authentic selves, and learn together as a holistic group. And so
00:29:34.580 --> 00:29:48.569 Mara Becker, M.D.: I think all of that builds from what we learned so far in conjunction with the needs for trying to get as much development to these brand new division directors in the department of pediatrics was a really important
00:29:48.780 --> 00:29:52.940 Mara Becker, M.D.: piece. As we were considering this option for them, as you and I were discussing.
00:29:53.430 --> 00:29:59.799 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, those are all great reasons. And I have one other thought on that.
00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:03.940 Mira Brancu: But I'm gonna hold off until we come back from the ad break.
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:18.380 Mira Brancu: So you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabu and our guest today, Doctor Mara Becker, Jessica Schoenberg, and Jessica Sperling. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. And we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:23.029 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills we are going to keep you on your toes
00:32:23.210 --> 00:32:28.390 Mira Brancu: by introducing. Now Jessica Schoenberg as Jessica
00:32:28.460 --> 00:32:39.610 Mira Brancu: and Jessica Sperling is Jess. That's what we decided. Just so you're not confused about who's being asked, especially if you're listening later, and you're trying to track who's speaking.
00:32:40.090 --> 00:32:40.860 Mara Becker, M.D.: Let me know!
00:32:40.860 --> 00:32:42.759 Mira Brancu: I'm gonna try to keep track.
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:44.090 Mira Brancu: What did you say, Mara?
00:32:44.090 --> 00:32:49.760 Mara Becker, M.D.: So we are very productive on the break. We have figured how to tag the right. Yes.
00:32:51.150 --> 00:32:59.949 Mira Brancu: That's right. Now. Now we'll see if I can succeed in keeping it all straight. Now. Okay, so here's what I was thinking as you were
00:33:00.482 --> 00:33:10.710 Mira Brancu: sharing about kind of the benefits and what you wanted to pull out of group coaching, applying a group, coaching model to helping, supporting faculty and leadership you mentioned
00:33:11.020 --> 00:33:12.030 Mira Brancu: reach
00:33:12.695 --> 00:33:23.300 Mira Brancu: that makes perfect sense sustainability through peer support, novelty support group and creating connections and and relationships. Now, if
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:40.129 Mira Brancu: if you take faculty, and you tell them that what you want to offer them is more relationship, time and more connection, time and more support. They're going to be like. No, thanks, because they're like such a sort of hardcore, hard skill, scientific group
00:33:40.310 --> 00:33:52.120 Mira Brancu: that they wouldn't recognize that that is exactly what they need, you know often the very thing that we need is not the thing that we're leaning into and honing and honing and honing right. And so
00:33:52.470 --> 00:33:55.750 Mira Brancu: one of the things that you know.
00:33:55.870 --> 00:34:02.810 Mira Brancu: helped as we were thinking through this is, it's got to be within the context of a learning experience.
00:34:02.870 --> 00:34:19.090 Mira Brancu: Right? Because, what do people who are over educated love more than anything is to continue being over educated? So? Yes, it is in the context of a leadership development program. And it's got a lot of leadership content.
00:34:19.130 --> 00:34:20.210 Mira Brancu: But
00:34:20.449 --> 00:34:28.909 Mira Brancu: it's set up in a way that helps people recognize and realize just how much the relational aspect of being a leader
00:34:29.010 --> 00:34:38.659 Mira Brancu: is important, not just to what they're doing to support other people, but what they're doing to support themselves in order to support other people.
00:34:39.940 --> 00:34:43.140 Mara Becker, M.D.: Totally agree. There is an element early on
00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:43.965 Mara Becker, M.D.: where
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:49.250 Mara Becker, M.D.: Each of the division chiefs did their own assessment.
00:34:49.280 --> 00:35:16.559 Mara Becker, M.D.: and I think they've all had assessments before, but the way that you were able to utilize their own leadership style with how that relates to others, I think, was really impactful to them. And then they thought about how they related, and they saw the people in the group who were very different. And that's in that scale in the disc assessment and recognize like Oh! And then you paired them up, which was kind of like torture, and awesome and brilliant.
00:35:16.580 --> 00:35:43.710 Mara Becker, M.D.: so that their accountability partners are people who are very different than they were, which I think opened the their eyes to just the concept of. Well, this is how I'm going into solve this problem. But someone who is has a different leadership style setup than I do might take it differently, or might receive it differently. And it was just a beautiful way to give them something concrete to start with, but also allow them some introspection. I think, as we entered into that coaching
00:35:43.810 --> 00:35:45.230 Mara Becker, M.D.: environment it was cool.
00:35:45.750 --> 00:35:51.782 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yeah. And we we do that in our tower. Scope Leadership Academy as well.
00:35:52.340 --> 00:35:58.600 Mira Brancu: but you know, given, this is an academic setting we could. We can't just go by like it was cool.
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:00.013 Mara Becker, M.D.: We we?
00:36:01.160 --> 00:36:02.550 Mara Becker, M.D.: That's a long way here.
00:36:02.550 --> 00:36:05.038 Mira Brancu: We did it because it was really cool.
00:36:05.660 --> 00:36:07.389 Mara Becker, M.D.: It's cool. We.
00:36:07.390 --> 00:36:20.119 Mira Brancu: Also wanted to measure the coolness of this thing right? The impact. So Jess, tell us about the program evaluation research, you conducted. This is research that we presented
00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:30.938 Mira Brancu: at the pediatric academic societies meeting. How did you go about trying to measure this sort of nebulous thing that we thought was so cool.
00:36:31.330 --> 00:36:45.019 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): Yeah, I love measuring coolness is a great way to put this and it's true, you know, not. 1st of all, because we're in the back of an environment. Let's let's think about data. But also for I'm on a soapbox for any effort like this.
00:36:45.240 --> 00:36:51.609 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): you know, doing something just because you think it's a jazzy idea isn't always the best way to drive effort.
00:36:51.830 --> 00:37:07.539 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): Want to know what comes from this? And I'll say in this case this was the 1st time something like this was being offered, and so it was a critical opportunity to learn to say, Hey, should we keep doing this? How should we keep doing this? Are there certain things we should really
00:37:07.550 --> 00:37:12.706 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): focus on sort of scaling and growing for some things we should pull back on?
00:37:13.330 --> 00:37:29.604 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): And so one of the 1st things we did, and I I had the advantage of having worked with these folks, particularly Jessica, before in some things. So as soon as we were in touch on this I said, what about a logic model? She said. I'm ahead. I got that and that's a common
00:37:29.990 --> 00:37:34.070 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): kind of tool. And really, what that's looking to do is saying, what are the intended outcomes?
00:37:34.570 --> 00:37:41.669 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): Right? And so what is this hoping to achieve, besides being something that's good and warm and fuzzy. What are the concrete intended outcomes?
00:37:41.900 --> 00:37:57.820 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): And so we started to really lay those out and really specify those, and we use that as the basis for a survey that was implemented for these participants at 2 points in time, at the start and end
00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:09.029 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): standpoint to understand. And then from a mixed methods, standpoint and methodology, we implemented qualitative data collection focus group with
00:38:09.030 --> 00:38:30.849 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): participants afterwards to start to really unpack some of this so we got information around the what in terms of what had changed. And then we also were able to garner information about the whys and the how and that the the combination of the 2, I'll say, is really really important for understanding, you know. Was this worthwhile?
00:38:31.830 --> 00:38:40.880 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): But also, what about it made it worthwhile if any of it was and that's where we're really thinking about how this can inform next steps.
00:38:42.690 --> 00:38:44.260 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): And I could go on. But I'm gonna stop. Yeah.
00:38:44.260 --> 00:38:45.156 Mira Brancu: Yeah, no, that's that's
00:38:45.620 --> 00:38:47.059 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): Eric, can I just jump in.
00:38:47.060 --> 00:38:50.099 Mara Becker, M.D.: That's why we love her so much. Go on other Jessica. I know you're dying.
00:38:50.440 --> 00:39:18.679 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): I just wanted to take this opportunity to to acknowledge that Dr. Katie Bartlett, who's the vice chair for faculty and pediatrics, was really instrumental to this project as well. And she couldn't be on the podcast with us today. But she's pictured here for those who are watching online. She is pictured here presenting the work, and this evaluation wouldn't have happened without her contribution as well. So I just wanted to mention that while we're talking about it.
00:39:19.100 --> 00:39:42.968 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yes, so yes, if you're watching either live or later on, we have a picture of Katie right here with Mara as they're presenting and we also had another member Victoria Lee, who also supported this work. From Ssri and the other the what I'm showing here if you're watching, but we're gonna describe it. Audio wise as well
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:52.630 Mira Brancu: is, you know the results on the poster. So let's let's take a a look here or describe this? What is it that we learned.
00:39:52.640 --> 00:40:07.560 Mira Brancu: Jess, when the data was finally pulled? And how did we get this data? How did you sort of learn? How did you figure out how to pull this kind of information out.
00:40:08.230 --> 00:40:09.000 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): Yeah.
00:40:09.990 --> 00:40:15.636 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): So from a a survey design standpoint, I mean, we saw a lot of
00:40:16.080 --> 00:40:32.319 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): phenomenal change. I was going to say significant. But I need to be careful. We have a small sample size here, but a lot of phenomenal growth in the specific areas that were measured. And so that's looking at having someone who holds me accountable. We saw the
00:40:32.600 --> 00:40:36.089 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): in those things that were most directly connected programmatically to what was happening.
00:40:36.270 --> 00:41:04.750 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): So having a leadership development plan with individualized leadership goals having an accountability partner. We saw clear growth in those. But we also saw growth in other areas that were less sort of concrete resources that were intended. So you know how, being prepared to create organizational change feeling supported in my leadership role, these were some of the other things that we were seeing from survey data
00:41:04.780 --> 00:41:06.000 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): and then
00:41:06.200 --> 00:41:13.250 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): unpacking some of this with qualitative data, was just a phenomenal opportunity to really understand how this worked
00:41:13.645 --> 00:41:18.620 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): and so we saw, really, what did that accountability? You know, accountability doesn't sound
00:41:18.910 --> 00:41:32.950 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): fun most of the time. To be frank, right? Is anyone jazz about accountability, I mean, maybe I am. But you know a lot of people are not. But we saw what it was about that partner that was helpful.
00:41:32.950 --> 00:41:55.729 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): We saw some outcomes that were not directly anticipated, but were relevant to the broader objectives of this program like identifying people with complementary skill sets, so you can say, Oh, my gosh! You know what I hate budgets, but this person loved them so. I can go ask them questions, and it's not pestering them, because I know it speaks to their strengths, and they can do the same
00:41:56.090 --> 00:41:57.849 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): right. So seeing some of
00:41:58.030 --> 00:42:05.012 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): some of those resources being shared, and we also saw one thing that I thought was really exciting.
00:42:05.630 --> 00:42:07.720 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): from a culture change perspective.
00:42:07.790 --> 00:42:11.317 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): We saw evidence of people taking not just the
00:42:12.040 --> 00:42:24.049 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): sort of skills and capacities that they gained as leader. But the actual sort of leadership, facilitation practices used in the coaching as something that they were looking to implement within their divisions.
00:42:24.160 --> 00:42:44.719 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): So some of the way that people were paired on projects, they said, these are actually some tools and techniques and strategies that I can use in my work, which wasn't something that was part of that initial logic model wasn't something that was initially intended, but actually is a really really exciting skill, building sort of effect that can.
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:51.480 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): you know, affect institutional and and culture change in ways that are really important.
00:42:51.930 --> 00:43:00.127 Mira Brancu: Yeah, that's super Meta, too. So meta, yeah. I mean, it was the experiential. Yeah, Mara, go ahead.
00:43:00.500 --> 00:43:03.869 Mara Becker, M.D.: And you say, what were the back to the softy stuff.
00:43:03.870 --> 00:43:04.429 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah.
00:43:04.430 --> 00:43:23.739 Mara Becker, M.D.: Met my brilliant scientist over here. I loved the comments that I read about willingness to ask one another for help, lessening feelings of imposter syndrome. So back to that relationship community building, those kinds of things came out in the focus groups that just
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:42.120 Mara Becker, M.D.: made me feel like, okay, we are creating that environment where people can ask one another for help, it can support one another rather than that kind of isolated silo position that frequently leaders sometimes find themselves in when they're in a leadership position. So thank you.
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:45.369 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. And there's 1
00:43:45.440 --> 00:44:03.720 Mira Brancu: final, exciting outcome that was unexpected that I'm not sharing yet, but I'm going to share after this ad break that, I think, is kind of an amazing, unexpected outcome that none of us expected. So we're going to share that as well as the implications that this has for
00:44:03.740 --> 00:44:13.539 Mira Brancu: other highly complex academic medicine, and healthcare environments. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Maya Brancu, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:46:18.170 --> 00:46:27.209 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabu and our guests today, Dr. Mara Becker, Jessica Schoenberg, and Jess Sperling.
00:46:28.204 --> 00:46:34.371 Mira Brancu: So see I got I got all the names right, I think.
00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:37.790 Mira Brancu: It took me 40 min, but I got there. Folks.
00:46:38.170 --> 00:46:38.550 Mara Becker, M.D.: Alright!
00:46:39.260 --> 00:46:39.860 Mira Brancu: So.
00:46:41.130 --> 00:46:44.150 Mira Brancu: no, but seriously, where we left off
00:46:44.190 --> 00:46:49.010 Mira Brancu: is we? We reviewed some of the sort of outcomes that were set up
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:58.889 Mira Brancu: by the logic model right? And then some additional data that was extracted from the focus group.
00:47:00.260 --> 00:47:10.560 Mira Brancu: the the way that Jess set up the focus groups right to to. Really, he think through and hear about the the qualitative reflections that they had.
00:47:11.150 --> 00:47:27.370 Mira Brancu: There is one thing that has happened, and maybe it's specific to this group. We don't know. We're going to sort of look at piloting other groups in the future. But that was so unique about this group and so unexpected, and such a pleasant outcome that I really wanted to include that.
00:47:27.660 --> 00:47:29.240 Mira Brancu: Mara, do you want to share
00:47:29.250 --> 00:47:30.270 Mira Brancu: what that is?
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:34.250 Mara Becker, M.D.: Yeah, you know this is a good shout out to to Katie Bartlett as well, who couldn't be there.
00:47:34.250 --> 00:47:35.390 Mira Brancu: Yes, it's like the job.
00:47:35.390 --> 00:47:36.870 Mara Becker, M.D.: Department level. But
00:47:37.060 --> 00:47:44.919 Mara Becker, M.D.: this group continues to meet a year later. I mean, they meet regularly. They've invited new leaders that join.
00:47:45.380 --> 00:47:47.629 Mara Becker, M.D.: Department to join this group.
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:53.310 Mara Becker, M.D.: and I think that kind of concept, that they, the group, continues to meet
00:47:53.340 --> 00:48:03.580 Mara Becker, M.D.: and be supportive to one another, and have invited new folks in, is a remarkable testament to that sustainability hope that I had hoped for, as well as the power of
00:48:03.790 --> 00:48:18.660 Mara Becker, M.D.: connection and and peer mentorship and peer support that, I think, was really foundationally supported again through this program. So we were pretty excited to see that thinking, okay, well, that's evidence enough that it was worth the investment.
00:48:19.160 --> 00:48:32.620 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Now, it might be unique to this group. But it may not be, and we don't know. And that's 1 of the things that we'd like to sort of look into further with other future groups. But I just think about
00:48:32.730 --> 00:48:35.320 Mira Brancu: the level of resiliency
00:48:35.430 --> 00:48:37.310 Mira Brancu: that you can extract
00:48:37.550 --> 00:48:38.510 Mira Brancu: from
00:48:38.640 --> 00:48:39.590 Mira Brancu: a
00:48:40.100 --> 00:48:42.239 Mira Brancu: group that is
00:48:42.310 --> 00:48:44.999 Mira Brancu: set up to work in silos
00:48:45.660 --> 00:48:48.690 Mira Brancu: and trained to work as independent
00:48:49.030 --> 00:48:57.720 Mira Brancu: independently as possible, right? And yet they saw the value and continue to see the value in having
00:48:57.990 --> 00:48:59.000 Mira Brancu: a group
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:05.310 Mira Brancu: that they can lean on. They can trust that they can be vulnerable. With that they could get support from
00:49:05.762 --> 00:49:07.820 Mira Brancu: that is the kind of thing
00:49:07.850 --> 00:49:09.600 Mira Brancu: that helps you
00:49:10.250 --> 00:49:12.860 Mira Brancu: navigate and work through
00:49:12.950 --> 00:49:17.019 Mira Brancu: all of the the disruptions and challenges that we're facing today
00:49:17.570 --> 00:49:40.419 Mira Brancu: in healthcare and beyond, in all kinds of disrupted industries, in our disrupted society and in all kinds of ways. That is one way. To be resilient is is social support. I mean, the research is there people? Social support is what you need, and when you work in isolation you don't have it, and then you're less equipped to ride those waves. Right? So
00:49:40.650 --> 00:50:00.420 Mira Brancu: that piece means a lot to me and is sort of what I'm tracking now. It's still a small study, right? What implications, what areas do you 3 have of interest as you're looking forward to? Sort of, you know
00:50:00.460 --> 00:50:09.779 Mira Brancu: where we can take this, where other groups like this can take this or other. You know, high, complex, academic medicine, institutions and healthcare. What do you see.
00:50:11.230 --> 00:50:18.660 Mara Becker, M.D.: Can I start because I wanted to make a comment 1st on your point about this group and the sustainability?
00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:25.029 Mara Becker, M.D.: And it was a it's meant to be a a compliment to the fact that this isn't just a support group like
00:50:25.070 --> 00:50:36.720 Mara Becker, M.D.: a bitching session group, you know. Provide tools for them to be able to coach one another to hold one another accountable, and I think that that does set it apart from just a support group of.
00:50:36.720 --> 00:50:37.350 Mira Brancu: And I'm.
00:50:37.350 --> 00:50:50.229 Mara Becker, M.D.: So they're going out to drink their sorrows away, or to complain their sorrows away. You truth, you, I think, gave them the language, the tools, the kind of mechanisms to I think, really.
00:50:51.220 --> 00:51:00.909 Mara Becker, M.D.: coach one another through shared challenges. And and this complex environment is filled with shared challenges. And there's so much power and
00:51:02.100 --> 00:51:09.700 Mara Becker, M.D.: just incredible agency that you can get when you have a group that you can bounce ideas off of and kind of
00:51:09.750 --> 00:51:18.129 Mara Becker, M.D.: relay your your concerns to. So I think that was a huge Testament, and why it continues to to work so well for this group.
00:51:19.122 --> 00:51:21.129 Mara Becker, M.D.: Great point, great point
00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:23.830 Mara Becker, M.D.: questions, because that I wanted to make sure was, Yeah.
00:51:23.830 --> 00:51:47.539 Mira Brancu: I appreciate that. That is a great point. We're not teaching people how to be, how to have a support group here. That is a different mechanism that is under the therapy lane. Right? Coaching is all about holding each other. Accountable reaching results in a way that is off, you know, towards developmental growth as a leader.
00:51:47.710 --> 00:51:49.949 Mira Brancu: Right? And, like you said.
00:51:50.200 --> 00:52:04.589 Mira Brancu: having the skill set to do pure coaching. So the entire goal was to learn how to phase myself out of being a coach and them into being the coach for each other, and there is a lot of skill to that.
00:52:05.135 --> 00:52:08.380 Mira Brancu: Yes, and so the second piece to that
00:52:08.390 --> 00:52:09.420 Mira Brancu: is.
00:52:09.710 --> 00:52:17.560 Mira Brancu: what do you see as kind of the opportunity, the promise of group coaching in other settings like this, or for other groups.
00:52:22.030 --> 00:52:24.148 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): Do you want me to jump in on that one.
00:52:24.740 --> 00:52:25.500 Mira Brancu: Jessica! Yes.
00:52:25.660 --> 00:52:34.918 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): Yeah, okay, I mean, I think that this there was such an amazing opportunity to pilot this within pediatrics. And we had this
00:52:36.030 --> 00:52:59.190 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): sort of ideal scenario where there were a number of chiefs who are all somewhat relatively new in their leadership role. And so there was sort of a a prime audience to do this, and some of what we saw in terms of the bonding of the group, the sense of trust that they built and potentially what you've been talking about with how they've continued to meet after
00:52:59.577 --> 00:53:05.779 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): the program ended could could be connected to them all. Being in the same department.
00:53:05.960 --> 00:53:29.160 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): It also might not, though. And so when I think about where I want to go next, I'm interested in seeing what does this look like when we replicate it on a broader scale, and bring people together from different departments. Because if we can sort of infuse this into our leadership model throughout all of our departments, where we have lots of people who are equipped to.
00:53:29.160 --> 00:53:45.289 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): you know, implement some of the coaching practices that they have learned and and let that trickle down through their teams. I think there's a lot of opportunity for reach and capacity building in that way. So when I think about what's next? That's where I'm that's where I'm looking.
00:53:46.315 --> 00:53:49.499 Mira Brancu: Just how about you? Any additional thoughts?
00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:52.659 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): Well, jessica stole my answer.
00:53:54.130 --> 00:53:55.790 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): That but very.
00:53:55.790 --> 00:53:56.540 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): Sorry.
00:53:57.600 --> 00:53:58.959 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): It's all good. It's a very.
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:00.975 Jessica Schonberg (she/her): Same name, same idea.
00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:05.240 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): But but I really do think I mean, this is the I think it's 1st of all. It's a it's a
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:12.010 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): a slightly dare. I say obvious thing. This is the 1st time that this has been done in this way. So what's the natural question is.
00:54:12.130 --> 00:54:33.070 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): what happens if it's done again, what happens if it's done elsewhere? And and Jessica highlighted a key, and we don't know what would be different. Until we find out if we're going to. But the fact that they were all from the same division or sorry department is important in a few different ways, that there's some part of a shared context that they have.
00:54:33.644 --> 00:54:43.600 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): That might not be the case if you're from different departments. They also had in some cases pre-established relationships with each other which
00:54:44.040 --> 00:54:50.770 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): come up in in data as something that was a valuable, and they did not all. Maybe we're not necessarily all deep, but there was some sort of
00:54:51.593 --> 00:54:58.690 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): of familiarity with one another in some cases that might not be as true. If you go broader, organizationally
00:54:59.152 --> 00:55:03.739 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): and and it will be interesting, and it will be important to see
00:55:03.750 --> 00:55:07.429 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): how much that matters. And and we just don't.
00:55:07.550 --> 00:55:11.379 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): We don't really know that yet, and I'm really excited to
00:55:11.530 --> 00:55:13.329 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): try and figure that out a little bit.
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:14.260 Jessica Sperling, PhD (she/her): wrote.
00:55:14.260 --> 00:55:17.540 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yes and you know.
00:55:18.210 --> 00:55:22.450 Mira Brancu: maybe some foreshadowing that
00:55:22.970 --> 00:55:36.299 Mira Brancu: my hope and my expectation is so outside of this Duke. Healthcare, academic medicine. Situation. My tower, scope, leadership Academy assessments which I've tried to mirror.
00:55:36.340 --> 00:55:45.869 Mira Brancu: have come out in with the same exact results, the same outcomes. And I'm hoping that we can see that and replicate it. Back internal to Duke.
00:55:46.602 --> 00:55:48.680 Mira Brancu: So look for
00:55:50.350 --> 00:55:54.355 Mira Brancu: group coaching the paper group, coaching the movie. No.
00:55:56.170 --> 00:56:13.629 Mira Brancu: alright audience. What did you take away? And more importantly, what is one small change that you can implement this week, based on what you learned from our guests today. Mara Becker, Jessica Schoenberg, and Jess Berlin share it with us on Linkedin at Mira Broncu or@talkradio.nyc. So we can cheer you on.
00:56:13.630 --> 00:56:30.679 Mira Brancu: We're also on Facebook, Instagram Twitter twitch all over the place. But Linkedin is where I live online. And that's where I'm gonna respond. In addition to being a live show, we're on apple spotify and Amazon Podcasts. Please help increase our visibility, reach and impact by leaving a review.
00:56:30.820 --> 00:56:40.039 Mira Brancu: the stuff we talk about on the show, and especially what we talked about today is part of our research based strategic leadership, pathway, roadmap that we also teach
00:56:40.370 --> 00:56:57.920 Mira Brancu: or towerscope leadership Academy and offer and group coaching. It's for socially conscious leaders in disrupted learning and innovation industries. Looking to make a greater impact, you can go to go towerscope.com to learn more. If you're interested in the Leadership Academy, you click on Leadership Academy
00:56:58.040 --> 00:57:05.339 Mira Brancu: and I want you to look for the accelerator program that we're opening up, which is a much briefer, more accelerated process.
00:57:05.380 --> 00:57:08.760 Mira Brancu: Thank you to Talkradio, dot Nyc. For hosting.
00:57:08.770 --> 00:57:12.289 Mira Brancu: I'm Doctor Mirabranku, your host of the Hard Skills show
00:57:12.940 --> 00:57:22.200 Mira Brancu: and thank you for joining us today. Doctor Maya Brecker, Jessica Schoenberg, Doctor Jess Sperling. Thank you very much. All 3 of you.
00:57:22.380 --> 00:57:23.630 Mara Becker, M.D.: You for having us.
00:57:24.260 --> 00:57:25.240 Mira Brancu: Super happiness.
00:57:25.710 --> 00:57:28.010 Mira Brancu: Yes, it was so fun, so fun.
00:57:28.170 --> 00:57:32.330 Mira Brancu: and have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from
00:57:32.410 --> 00:57:33.809 Mira Brancu: bye. Everybody.
00:57:33.980 --> 00:57:34.590 Mara Becker, M.D.: Yeah.
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