Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
What is intersectionality, and why does it matter when it comes to leadership development? And how might things like mental health, body autonomy, reproductive health affect our success as leaders and the success of organizations? Intersectional leadership and creating inclusive workplaces require a unique skills set: understanding structural barriers and social justice, promoting mental health, and connecting these to large scale impact and outcomes. Christian Nunes’s unique blend of experiences as NOW’s National President, a mental health professional, and a dedicated social justice advocate will offer actionable strategies for dismantling structural barriers and promoting mental health in leadership, including:
- Techniques for leading with an intersectional lens to address sexism and racism.
- Practical advice on building inclusive environments and supporting team well-being.
- Lessons on effective advocacy and leveraging personal expertise for societal change.
- Inspiration from Christian’s journey as a young, impactful leader in challenging spaces.
ABOUT THIS EPISODE:
This episode will delve into the intersection of mental health, feminism, intersectionality, the societal impact of abortion restrictions and how that affects the wellbeing and inclusive leadership practices of leaders. Grounded in peer-reviewed research and analysis, National NOW President and a licensed clinical social worker, Christian Nunes will explore how we navigate the complexities of these issues as leaders, and the critical role of Black feminism within an intersectional lens. Christian will debunk common myths, share personal stories, and offer practical recommendations, all through an unbiased, research-oriented lens. This episode also promises to give listeners practical advice for women and women of color navigating leadership roles.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Christian stands as a trailblazer in both the advocacy and mental health fields. She is the second African American president of the National Organization for Women (NOW), the youngest person of color, and the youngest president to lead NOW over four decades. Her extensive background as a licensed clinical social worker and a woman-minority business owner uniquely positioned her to steer the organization through the unprecedented challenges of the pandemic, emphasizing the dismantlement of structural sexism and racism through the lens of intersectionality. As the founder of a behavioral health and consulting practice, Christian has dedicated her career to bridging the gap between policy and the real-life experiences of individuals and families affected by mental health issues. Her work extends to assisting social service and behavioral health companies, showcasing her profound understanding of mental health's direct impact on communities.
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IF YOU ENJOYED THIS EPISODE, CAN I ASK A FAVOR?
We do not receive any funding or sponsorship for this podcast. If you learned something and feel others could also benefit, please leave a positive review. Every review helps amplify our work and visibility. This is especially helpful for small women-owned boot-strapped businesses. Simply go to the bottom of the Apple Podcast page to enter a review. Thank you!
***
LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
Guest Website: now.org
Guest X: @ChrisFNunes; @NationalNow;
Guest IG: https://www.instagram.com/christian_prez4now/
Dr. Brancu's website: www.gotowerscope.com
Dr. Brancu's LinkedIn: @MiraBrancu
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
00:00:47.010 --> 00:00:53.240 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the nuanced hard skills
00:00:53.260 --> 00:00:59.290 Mira Brancu: meaning the most challenging soft skills needed to make a real impact through your leadership?
00:01:00.050 --> 00:01:05.540 Mira Brancu: What is intersectionality? And why does it matter when it comes to leadership, development?
00:01:05.570 --> 00:01:08.780 Mira Brancu: And how might things like mental health.
00:01:09.010 --> 00:01:10.630 Mira Brancu: body, autonomy.
00:01:10.720 --> 00:01:12.539 Mira Brancu: reproductive health.
00:01:12.850 --> 00:01:21.350 Mira Brancu: How might those affect your success as leaders and the success of organizations? Have you ever even thought about those as a piece to it.
00:01:21.380 --> 00:01:25.170 Mira Brancu: That's what we'll be delving into today with Christian nunes.
00:01:25.530 --> 00:01:31.709 Mira Brancu: I'm your host, Dr. Mira Broncu. I'm a leadership consulting and coaching psychologist
00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:36.169 Mira Brancu: founder of the Towerscope Leadership Academy and associate professor.
00:01:36.450 --> 00:01:48.440 Mira Brancu: a psychology today columnist, author of the Millennials Guide to Workplace politics and had my own leadership career before transitioning to helping teams and high achieving women navigate their leadership complexities.
00:01:48.550 --> 00:02:01.110 Mira Brancu: So thank you for joining us today before I introduce you to our awesome guest today, this is a reminder that applications are now open for the fall. 2024 cohort of the Towerscope Leadership Academy.
00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:07.130 Mira Brancu: We did have a snafu with the application app. So we are actually extending applications through August 5th
00:02:07.320 --> 00:02:09.820 Mira Brancu: or earlier. If we fill up our cohort.
00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:23.620 Mira Brancu: the Tla focuses on building a community of high achieving growth. Minded leaders who are women centered looking to expertly navigate today's complex workplace challenges within disrupted industries and make a greater impact.
00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:25.760 Mira Brancu: Now, who is this right? For
00:02:25.890 --> 00:02:42.020 Mira Brancu: if you're experiencing a tension or misalignment between your expectations, organizational culture values or goals. This community might be right for you. If you have a desire to be more intentional, strategic, and effective on your leadership journey
00:02:42.220 --> 00:02:50.689 Mira Brancu: or feel concerned about your leadership trajectory. The Tla offers a structured, research-backed learning community to take a reflective pause
00:02:50.710 --> 00:03:00.630 Mira Brancu: and get support for your next steps. You can learn more and apply@www.go towerscope.com and click on Leadership Academy.
00:03:00.860 --> 00:03:06.809 Mira Brancu: Okay, now, with no further ado. I'm excited to introduce our special guest today. Christian Nunez
00:03:06.820 --> 00:03:14.329 Mira Brancu: Christian Nunes is the second African American president of the national Organization for Women. Now
00:03:14.860 --> 00:03:25.910 Mira Brancu: the youngest person of color and the youngest President to lead. Now, as a licensed, clinical social worker and a minority-owned business owner, she has uniquely steered
00:03:26.070 --> 00:03:30.240 Mira Brancu: the organization through unprecedented challenges of the pandemic.
00:03:30.270 --> 00:03:36.190 Mira Brancu: emphasizing the dismantlement of structural sexism and racism through the lens of intersectionality.
00:03:36.340 --> 00:03:45.120 Mira Brancu: She's also the founder of a behavioral health and consulting practice, and focuses on bridging the gap between policy, advocacy, and mental health.
00:03:45.160 --> 00:03:47.709 Mira Brancu: Welcome, great! To have you on the show Christian.
00:03:47.950 --> 00:03:53.490 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Thank you so much, Doctor Bearer, for having me on the show. I'm extremely excited to be here with you today.
00:03:53.790 --> 00:04:21.969 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. I am just as excited to have you on our show today. So let's get ready to take some notes. Audience, you know I always do, and I am ready for Christian. I'm ready to take notes. So let's start with some preliminary basics. If people aren't familiar with this organization. Now, what do they focus on? What does now focus on now? Where are they with their focus on women in business?
00:04:21.970 --> 00:04:29.370 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Sure. Well, now is the oldest and largest grassroots feminist organization founded in 1,966,
00:04:29.570 --> 00:04:52.070 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and we strive to be, do our work from a multi-issue multi-strategy approach. Using an intersectional feminist approach to the work that we do. So, we have 6 core issues that we focus on. And this has been 6 core issues that we just focus on majority of our history. Those 6 core issues are reproductive justice, economic justice.
00:04:52.140 --> 00:04:54.110 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): constitutional quality.
00:04:54.800 --> 00:05:00.599 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): ending violence against women, racial justice and Lgbtqia plus rights.
00:05:00.840 --> 00:05:23.579 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): So when we talk about it from an intersectional feminist perspective and approach to the work, we're doing also using your racial justice lens. What we're talking about is understanding that every person, every woman that we're fighting for and every girl that we're fighting for has multiple identities, and therefore our legislative advocacy, our education and awareness, our fight for the laws.
00:05:23.580 --> 00:05:48.119 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): everything that we do in our grassroots, activism must be understanding and centering that person and all their identities in the work that we doing so, we cannot put everyone in one shape, one model. We have to understand their multiple identities and also understanding the multiple forms of oppression that each person fits. So our legislative efficacy must take place and understand that as well. So that's the work we strive to do it now, and we have been doing. And we have a history of doing.
00:05:48.860 --> 00:05:56.319 Mira Brancu: That's amazing. I actually didn't know all of that about now. And now I have to join. I can't believe.
00:05:56.320 --> 00:06:11.070 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Please do. We are always looking for new members. We have 39 stage chapters. We have over 250 local chapters. We actually have a chapter in New York City and in New York State, one of our most successful chapters. They're doing amazing work with ending violence against women.
00:06:11.530 --> 00:06:35.490 Mira Brancu: Incredible. And if you're watching this live or you are watching, you're able to watch later on on the video part, I'm showing their website. It's NO, now.org. And this is where you can also learn more, which now I can't wait to dig in even further than I already dug in before.
00:06:36.070 --> 00:06:37.516 Mira Brancu: Alright. So
00:06:38.530 --> 00:07:00.850 Mira Brancu: You are a mental health practitioner by training and in social work in particular, which is an important piece of how you received that mental health training which is focused a lot more on systems and community. And so I'm curious to hear more. How did you move from mental health and social work
00:07:01.700 --> 00:07:03.870 Mira Brancu: to becoming the president of now.
00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:18.740 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Yeah, you know, I always tell everyone it's really easy trajectory, right? Because when I 1st started off I started off as a domestic violence advocate and a advocate working for the courts with individuals who were victims of sexual assault.
00:07:19.305 --> 00:07:34.689 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): At domestic violence, working in on the reservations right and in a very rural area in Northern Arizona, and just going to court and helping people, getting, you know, restraining orders and navigate the court system.
00:07:35.075 --> 00:07:45.489 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): And go and sewing up for emergencies and going out to things of the crime, and and just kind of being that liaison and that support for people who are experiencing violence.
00:07:45.610 --> 00:08:04.360 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): but also just going to court. I saw a lot of what was happening, and also going to hospitals and working with women and and seeing how they were treated and seeing kind of some of those experiences. I just saw a lot of some disconnect what was existing between what was actually taking place.
00:08:04.450 --> 00:08:10.370 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): And then what was actually happening when these policies and procedures are actually manifesting in real life.
00:08:10.510 --> 00:08:19.916 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): So I took a year off and worked, and then I went to grad school and went to Columbia University for my master's, and then I focused in clinicals
00:08:20.340 --> 00:08:29.859 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): practice, specializing and health, mental health and stability. It's because I was like, Okay, I can give back to me. I can actually be that person who understands and can understand can be that
00:08:30.320 --> 00:08:47.209 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): therapists who worked in the community and can actually be that service. But even so doing that. So I still saw disconnects. Right? I'm there. I'm trying to service. And I'm also working community organizer on the side to be in the community, but still running into roadblocks, constantly seeing systematic and inequalities.
00:08:47.220 --> 00:08:57.679 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): seeing that policy didn't work the same way for everyone. So it was natural for me to want to do more to figure out, how do we close these gaps.
00:08:57.760 --> 00:09:11.310 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): How do we actually make sure these narratives? These communities are being, you know, their narratives are being communicated in the rooms that need to be communicated in those rooms. How do you make sure they're being included? So I got involved now.
00:09:11.490 --> 00:09:25.760 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and my 1st experience is actually in grad school. I went to attended a campus action network chapter some activities. And I kind of waited a little bit later. And then I got involved in local chapters and then local chapter leadership, then State chapter Leadership
00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:50.540 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): National Board, and it kind of just naturally progressed. But I would say the trajectories very easily, because it has moved from being direct and community organizing to the side of legislative advocacy, and being able to use those skills as a direct practitioner and organizer to now being able to say, well, actually, this is how it plays out right. This is what it really looks like when you're working with people. This is what the real experiences are. I think it
00:09:50.540 --> 00:10:10.529 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): really benefits me more than anyone, because I can see that difference. And then having that mental health background also understanding what trauma looks like. And talking about how you can use trauma, inform mythology and person center mythology to actually make really effective policy. So I feel like it's been a really natural transition, and anything strengthen my work as a advocate.
00:10:11.400 --> 00:10:27.010 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I I have a million questions. But I'm going to ask one more about like the foundational stuff for people, which is in case they're not familiar. So intersectionality was coined by C. Kimberly Crenshaw a while ago. But it hasn't really fully
00:10:27.438 --> 00:10:34.150 Mira Brancu: ended up in our vernacular yet like our normal vernacular. So how do you define it in your own words when you're explaining it to people.
00:10:34.150 --> 00:10:39.120 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Sure. But I wanna kind of give a little history, because actually, before
00:10:39.460 --> 00:10:41.540 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Kimberly Crenshaw, which I give her
00:10:41.630 --> 00:10:43.229 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): credit over credit.
00:10:44.680 --> 00:10:48.859 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): before we? She quainted. It was actually 1st discussed
00:10:49.470 --> 00:10:54.600 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): back early on by Dr. Reverend Polly Murray.
00:10:55.260 --> 00:11:05.670 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): And she was the 1st one to really start talking about the importance of the intersections between sexism and racism. It just wasn't called intersectionality, right?
00:11:05.670 --> 00:11:06.510 Mira Brancu: Yes, but.
00:11:06.510 --> 00:11:27.120 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): She was the 1st one to really mention, and then she also brought up, too, that even the intersections of race you know, of being queer and racism in in queer and being a woman. So I I want to point that out. She was like a prophet before her time in some way of talking about intersectionality without actually coining it. Intersectionality. But she was the 1st to really to bring this to light
00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:36.559 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): of talking about the Internet, and she was one of Now's co-founders and and she's an attorney, and I want to bring up that. She was one of the 1st to really started talking about that
00:11:36.923 --> 00:11:46.940 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): one of the 1st minister at least, I'm mentioning that. And Kimberly Crenshaw really has brought it to light. She really coined it to make sure people really understood what it means.
00:11:47.090 --> 00:11:56.329 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): So I think part of the reason why. We haven't really fully digested it so much to really understand the term intersectionality.
00:11:56.970 --> 00:11:57.550 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): It's
00:11:57.790 --> 00:12:01.270 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): for, especially for persons to marginalized community.
00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:04.150 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): It's because we've had such a hard time
00:12:05.100 --> 00:12:17.810 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): give like allowing and accepting that inequities affect people right? So in order for us to truly like accept intersectionality, we have to really like, take on the ownership that
00:12:17.810 --> 00:12:39.720 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): inequity, systematic racism, and systematic inequalities really have an impact on people's survival people's lives and how they're living. That's part of the reason why intersectionality, I think, is kind of has a little bit of pushback, because then we would be responsible and accountable for saying in this country systematic inequalities, systematic racism really do impact
00:12:39.750 --> 00:12:44.150 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): people's ability to thrive and live.
00:12:44.473 --> 00:12:49.469 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): And that's hard sometimes with people that this right? So it's easier to to try to like.
00:12:49.770 --> 00:13:14.770 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): not really understand it versus the say that our multiple identities matter. And the more multiple identities we have, the more oppression and discrimination. And we experience. So it's 1 thing to say, I'm a woman. Okay. But if I'm a woman, that is also a woman of color, I have extra levels of oppression, experience. And then, if I'm woman of color, who also has this ability. There's another layer of oppression and discrimination
00:13:14.770 --> 00:13:27.889 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): experience. And then, if a woman who is also a woman who also might be a woman who is queer. Then I'm gonna have another layer that I'm experiencing of the oppression discrimination, because this is all about power and balances right? And so
00:13:27.930 --> 00:13:48.890 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): it's easy for people to like. Oh, I don't want to touch that, because then they have to acknowledge that these power imbalances occur in this world, and it's still occurring in 2024, but more so. We have to call out what's really existing in our society. And what we're still fighting to struggle to eradicate these inequalities. So I think that's big reason why
00:13:49.190 --> 00:13:55.170 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): we haven't really seen the truthful discussion about intersectionality as we should.
00:13:55.170 --> 00:14:00.026 Mira Brancu: Interesting. I had never thought about that, but that makes perfect sense that
00:14:00.470 --> 00:14:18.799 Mira Brancu: if we want to keep our head in the sand, and we don't want to acknowledge reality. Then we don't. We're not going to talk about the thing we don't want to talk about, and that makes perfect sense. I also really appreciate you sharing with us about Reverend Polly Murray and the connection to now.
00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:36.099 Mira Brancu: You know where all of these discussions started, and how they've evolved over time. Through, you know, different people trying to bring it to light and trying to sort of help others make sense of it. So super interesting. We are reaching an ad break when we come back.
00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:52.510 Mira Brancu: I would love to hear more from you about the differences that it takes to be a community organizer versus a a legislative advocate in your role. Now, like, what do these 2 2 things look like? And especially since I'm personally inspired and curious.
00:14:52.510 --> 00:15:15.660 Mira Brancu: I'm sure a lot of people in our audience would be also thinking through like, what can they do? What can I do? You know, as a single person you've done a lot. So let's do that. When we come back you are listening to the hard skills with me, Doctor Maya Broncu and our guest, Christian Nunas. We air on Tuesdays at 5 PM. Eastern time. If you'd like to join our online audience
00:15:15.980 --> 00:15:29.529 Mira Brancu: right now, live and ask questions. Live of us, and especially of Christian. You can find us on Linkedin or Youtube at Talkradio, NYC. And we'll be right back with our guests in just a moment.
00:17:41.350 --> 00:17:47.850 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabu and our guest today, Christian nunes, the now President
00:17:47.870 --> 00:18:05.460 Mira Brancu: and Ow. President. So we've learned a little bit about your background and your trajectory, and what you do now, and we've learned, started learning a little bit about this piece of feminism and intersectionality, and the connection to now
00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:18.900 Mira Brancu: and I was left being curious. What it looks like to be a community organizer versus what it looks like to you to be a legislative advocate in this space? What are the
00:18:19.284 --> 00:18:24.770 Mira Brancu: differences? And then also, what are the shifts that you had to make towards the new space.
00:18:26.110 --> 00:18:53.640 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): You know, it's very similar, actually, right? Because I remember being a community organizer. One of the things we did a lot of work around was, you know, ballot initiatives and just going out in the community and making sure we helped communities understand what ballot initiatives or referendums were out there, and how they would impact them in their communities. And we had to understand what those were to be able to communicate and educate community members and voters on those
00:18:53.912 --> 00:19:21.180 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and why it was important that they got out and vote and registered to vote to either vote in in favor or oppose certain ball initiatives. So to me, that's a big part of all the work we did in community organizing or at school boards, and what was happening in school board meetings and and and getting School Board candidates elected and getting city Council candidates elected. A lot of it was very political, you know, and and the work that I did. And then it's actually I started doing campaign management when I was community organizer as well.
00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:21.640 Mira Brancu: Of the mix.
00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:44.550 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Sure that we were getting the right candidates elected had our best interests at stake. And and so, as a legislative advocate, it's it's not much different. I think your focus is just really, truly on legislation, right? And you have more interaction with your lawmakers. And you're making sure you have to definitely understand how the process works. More.
00:19:44.975 --> 00:20:12.440 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): So I think, coming in, I have to probably educate myself a little bit more on. You know the process of what's happening in Congress a little bit more than I probably didn't. And I knew more states, you know. So just really making sure I was knowing what was the difference between different processes and different committees and things like that. But outside of just educating myself on the processes of what happened in, you know, and House and Senate, and and the different committees, and
00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:21.620 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): the different processes of different resolutions and discharge petitions, you know, and and floor votes and things like that. I think that was the biggest
00:20:21.750 --> 00:20:39.320 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): process that was different from me for being a community organizer. But the work is really the same, it's making sure that you are communicating what your your group or your community really needs, and what's best interest for your community and your stakeholders.
00:20:39.320 --> 00:20:55.710 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): There's that's the that's the same. No, you know, regardless. So I think it's a really easy transition for those who are working in communities that want to become legislative advocates. You're just maybe shifting like your focus and only doing it, maybe legislatively versus, maybe on the local level.
00:20:55.970 --> 00:20:57.919 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Now, a lot of
00:20:58.530 --> 00:21:04.629 Mira Brancu: a lot of mental health practitioners, and even like, let's broaden it to like healthcare providers.
00:21:06.910 --> 00:21:12.700 Mira Brancu: find the entire process of engaging in this political process kind of intimidating.
00:21:12.940 --> 00:21:14.829 Mira Brancu: And I'm curious.
00:21:15.591 --> 00:21:23.259 Mira Brancu: How did you use your mental health background and that knowledge expertise experience to actually lean into
00:21:23.741 --> 00:21:26.030 Mira Brancu: you know the the political process.
00:21:26.760 --> 00:21:52.989 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): So if anything, I would tell my fellow mental health practitioners that we probably have some of the best skills they're doing this. We have some of the best assessment skills, some of the best negotiation skills, the best communication skills that will be be really be effective and helpful for us to help people come together right? Because our primary role is really to help people come to place of like healing
00:21:53.000 --> 00:22:12.020 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and a place of like understanding. We don't pick sides for fair, and the work that we're doing we're not coming in taking sides. We're coming in like, how do we come to a place of understanding, a fairness of healing to get the best interest that will help you for your family, your group, your community, right? That's the work that we are really striving to do
00:22:12.020 --> 00:22:26.659 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): so. If you're thinking about that, think about those same skills, they apply the same way you're coming in on for issue base. We. Now we work. We're nonpartis. Since we work issue base, I'm coming in for the best issues. They're gonna serve women and girls, women and children.
00:22:26.660 --> 00:22:34.150 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): I'm not looking at your whether you're a Republican or a Democrat I'm looking at, who has the best interest of protecting women and girls and children.
00:22:34.150 --> 00:22:44.799 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): And how do I get us all to come together and figure out what we have in common and what we really, truly believe, and our values are aligned so that we can do the best and pass the best bills.
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.809 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): They're going to protect women and girls and children
00:22:47.870 --> 00:23:00.350 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): period. That's just really what it's about. So I don't you telling me your pup? But I want to know, are you gonna protect women and girls and children? And and how do we come together on these things, and if you're telling me that you're against
00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:24.719 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): protecting reproductive rights and you're against violence against women, then that's where we don't fall in line. Right. But I'm still going to talk to you and try to tell you and try to get you understand, with education and awareness and facts about why it's important to do this. And so that's why I feel those skills that I had were the most and continue to be the most effective skills ever
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:31.470 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): be able to have conversations with both sides, because my interest is in lie and anything. But how do we move forward
00:23:31.860 --> 00:23:37.440 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): to really get the needs met for the persons that I'm trying to serve and let and advocate for.
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.550 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely love that and for those of you who have.
00:23:41.560 --> 00:23:57.949 Mira Brancu: Listen to me and heard me mention one book I really like around. Negotiation is getting to. Yes, but I use the concept all the time. And what you're speaking to here is helping people get out of entrenched positions and into shared interests.
00:23:57.950 --> 00:23:58.310 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Exactly.
00:23:58.310 --> 00:24:00.742 Mira Brancu: And then you can get somewhere right.
00:24:01.090 --> 00:24:07.730 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Yes, yeah, you know what. Early on I took conflict resolution course. And
00:24:07.850 --> 00:24:32.260 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and I will tell you that you know. How do you get the. It's kind of like the win-win, but it's not really. But it's a best interest, you know, like, and it's figuring out, how do you really get to that best interest and for everyone. And you know, I think that's what you really like. You're saying that you really have to look at. It's not going to always be. You get all your needs met. Absolutely not. But how do we really get the best interest for everyone
00:24:32.310 --> 00:24:34.200 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): that we all can agree on?
00:24:34.530 --> 00:24:41.184 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, absolutely strong skill set. So you might as well use it for good.
00:24:41.600 --> 00:24:42.370 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Like.
00:24:43.030 --> 00:24:43.590 Mira Brancu: So
00:24:44.450 --> 00:24:49.530 Mira Brancu: as you're you're thinking about your own sort of leader leadership trajectory.
00:24:50.760 --> 00:24:59.465 Mira Brancu: How do you start bringing together your own intersectionality as a woman in a leadership role,
00:25:00.110 --> 00:25:18.130 Mira Brancu: as a black woman in a leadership role. How do you bring in the mental health piece and the challenges that sort of intersect with sexism and racism and all of these things that you're fighting for. How does it all come together for you in your mind?
00:25:18.130 --> 00:25:23.080 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Sure. Well, I think that my personal experience, my personal narrative.
00:25:23.210 --> 00:25:43.759 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): strengthens my ability to advocate right, my personal experience being a black woman, and especially being a dark-skinned black woman. I say this because it's a difference, right? Because there's also Colorism that I experienced as a black woman. And so I think those things help me understand and relate to experiences in the communities
00:25:43.790 --> 00:26:01.720 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and understand types of discrimination that people face and understand like not only like the like, the discrimination to experience in institutions, systematic institutions, but also like that emotional impact, how it can be and the feeding part of it. And like
00:26:01.900 --> 00:26:14.010 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): how you can like work past those things and use that to turn it around for your bet, your benefit. And how do we get around those things? But how do we acknowledge it? Because it's real? And how do we have empathy? Because we have that empathy?
00:26:14.070 --> 00:26:34.069 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): But then how we also work around it and still feel like, recognize our own worth and value, and still like, don't let and not let our own value and our own sense of worth diminish, because other people's ignorance, and because of other people's racism and other people's bigotry, you know, and misogyny and all the different things. So I feel like my experiences have really
00:26:34.080 --> 00:26:36.720 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): my own personal experiences growing up.
00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:50.320 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): you really have helped me kind of really have empathy to be able to like, sit down and take the time to really get to know people and communities and invest in them authentically instead of being performative.
00:26:50.320 --> 00:27:20.310 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): And that is really helpful when you're trying to make change and engage stakeholders and trying to build relationships, you know, and you have to be authentic. You have to go into it invested. The worst thing you can do is be performative and just show up when you want to take a picture or just show up when you're trying to get a vote or just show up. So you can say you did it. It's people see through that. So building trust is so important to me because I know what it's like
00:27:20.360 --> 00:27:35.339 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): to be used to be a token. I know what it's like for people to only use me to get to point or to help and handle a crisis, and then it's like discarded afterward. And those are things that I would not want anyone to feel. So I do my best
00:27:35.420 --> 00:28:00.140 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): cause. I'm not perfect, but I do my best at trying not to create situations that I've personally experienced and making sure that I include people's stories, and I lift their voices up, and I give an opportunity, for everyone is like this, acknowledge their assets because everyone has an asset, a strength that they can contribute to a situation. So that's really where I base a lot of my work is from asset based.
00:28:00.481 --> 00:28:03.860 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): And and that's just kind of how I try to strive and do things.
00:28:04.390 --> 00:28:06.325 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. And
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:09.910 Mira Brancu: as we're talking through all of this.
00:28:09.990 --> 00:28:10.895 Mira Brancu: I'm
00:28:12.120 --> 00:28:15.580 Mira Brancu: I'm reflecting on how
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:21.969 Mira Brancu: I'm I'm seeing more and more teams within organizations, including leadership teams
00:28:22.180 --> 00:28:26.189 Mira Brancu: that are having a harder and harder time
00:28:26.340 --> 00:28:37.341 Mira Brancu: connecting at a human level. And instead, sitting in those entrenched positions, blaming each other, making massive assumptions about each other.
00:28:37.980 --> 00:28:39.380 Mira Brancu: And
00:28:39.620 --> 00:28:46.419 Mira Brancu: I would love after this next ad break to sort of explore with you. Some
00:28:46.895 --> 00:28:50.009 Mira Brancu: ways to apply what you have learned.
00:28:50.050 --> 00:28:51.630 Mira Brancu: working with
00:28:52.060 --> 00:29:09.959 Mira Brancu: some of the most entrenched situations and positions, and what it takes to sort of unlock that you started talking about that, you know, like get to the interests. But I'd love to dig in even more like, how do you get to those interests? How do you get people to let go
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:25.359 Mira Brancu: and to come back to each other as humans, to explore things that are important to all of us. So let's put that on the table, for when we come back from the eyebreak you're listening to the hard skills with me, Doctor Maya Broncu and our guest today, Christian nunes
00:29:25.570 --> 00:29:38.459 Mira Brancu: again. If you would like to join our online audience right now and ask us any questions you are welcome to. You can find us at Linkedin or Youtube at Talkradio, NYC, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:31:39.760 --> 00:31:49.469 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabu and our guest today, Christian nunes, we have been talking about
00:31:51.270 --> 00:31:58.210 Mira Brancu: number one kind of how you get people out of entrenched positions and number 2. How
00:31:58.280 --> 00:32:01.600 Mira Brancu: the interplay of mental health.
00:32:02.090 --> 00:32:08.729 Mira Brancu: societal challenges like sexism, racism, restrictive abortion laws, all kinds of things that affect women and girls.
00:32:10.170 --> 00:32:18.146 Mira Brancu: can can really be combined through just understanding people at a human level and knowing how to
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:42.105 Mira Brancu: connect with each other at a more human level, empathize. And really, Christian's background has helped her really be able to demonstrate a lot of empathy because she's gone through some of these experiences herself. She can connect. She can relate right and connection relation. It's it's it's a lot about that. Right? So.
00:32:42.830 --> 00:32:45.390 Mira Brancu: let's let's talk a little bit more about like
00:32:45.940 --> 00:32:54.909 Mira Brancu: something that affects everybody is, how do we have hard conversations with all of this polarized and transposition positions.
00:32:55.436 --> 00:32:58.489 Mira Brancu: What have you found through your work?
00:32:58.760 --> 00:32:59.639 Mira Brancu: That
00:33:01.340 --> 00:33:04.859 Mira Brancu: that that has really helped you extract people out of that.
00:33:05.750 --> 00:33:09.379 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): It. Yeah, Dr. Mira, this is such a great question, because
00:33:09.390 --> 00:33:15.149 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): some one of the most interesting interesting things I found this work is sometimes people come in aggrieved
00:33:15.780 --> 00:33:17.230 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and they're
00:33:17.250 --> 00:33:24.930 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): coming in aggrieved. It's hard for them to get past their grievance right. They're not even agreed it to you. They're grieved about something that has happened to them in their life.
00:33:24.930 --> 00:33:25.310 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:33:25.310 --> 00:33:32.780 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): So another way, it's the mental health community. We say they have a trauma, right? They have some type of trauma that's impacted them that they have not resolved.
00:33:32.930 --> 00:34:02.519 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): And they're carrying that trauma or their grievance, or, you know, with them, and they can get past it. And so, therefore every person they come in contact with is like impacted and projects they've projected this grievance on or this trauma on, and it sometimes comes out very harsh and difficult, and they're resistant, and they're rigid, and they don't want to get past their position. And even sometimes people who are fighting for the same cause as you, and want to be advocates and actually have a good intention.
00:34:02.520 --> 00:34:23.730 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): are rigid about the positions. They only want to do it their way. They only want to see that. And so I've run into this quite often, believe it or not. And I'm like, Well, we have to talk about everybody, or we have to look at everything. And so sometimes it's really getting. What I always try to do is get people to remember why they have a purpose like, what is your purpose about like? Why did you come into this work?
00:34:23.730 --> 00:34:36.699 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Why are you working in this? What is your ultimate purpose and your ultimate goal for being here and getting people to kinda like. Take a time and a step back to reflect on what is their actual purpose for doing this advocacy work.
00:34:36.820 --> 00:34:39.979 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): What is the purpose for doing this activism work? What
00:34:40.020 --> 00:35:04.829 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): you know, what is their what is their goal behind it? And you know what led them to be here, and and outside of their own personal grievance. Why do they continue to strive, and why do they continue? Want to be in the space to advocate for either sexual violence or voting rights, or whatever what motivates them. And what is that purpose? What is driving that purpose? And I tell them the purpose can't be driven by only your issue.
00:35:05.260 --> 00:35:10.400 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): It's great. If you have, you can relate and have empathy, but the purpose has to be larger than you.
00:35:10.690 --> 00:35:36.240 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): It really has. The purpose has to be about equality. The purpose has to be about equity. The purpose has to be about justice for persons in general communities. The purpose cannot be just about you. And honestly, if the purpose is just about you, sometimes you need to take a step back and you gotta do some healing right? You gotta do some healing work on yourself, because if the purpose and what's driving you is only about you, then people are gonna get hurt in the process.
00:35:36.340 --> 00:35:41.389 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): You're gonna stay angry. It doesn't focus and do the way you only want it to be.
00:35:41.490 --> 00:35:58.309 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): So we have to get people to kind of like, do a self assessment 1st and really figure out. And I'd encourage that. Do that self assessment and and figure that out. And I tell people this like, I've told my members this, I've told people volunteer this like, figure out where where you're starting at. What's your self assessment?
00:35:58.600 --> 00:36:06.240 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Why, you're coming into this. And when you figure out why you're coming into this and even having conversations, and we're trying to get the same goals and work groups.
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:29.340 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): then we figure this out, and then we all can kind of line where our purpose is, then we can like move forward. But if we're coming from different positions and different places, and a lot of them are very personal. And we're just stuck on our only personal thing. We're going to always hit like an impasse. We're going to always hit a bump, a barrier. We have to get past our own personal goals and the work of justice.
00:36:30.130 --> 00:36:32.130 Mira Brancu: I love that. Yeah,
00:36:33.140 --> 00:36:34.360 Mira Brancu: and
00:36:35.520 --> 00:36:39.360 Mira Brancu: as as we're talking, I'm also thinking about
00:36:40.710 --> 00:36:43.120 Mira Brancu: sometimes what gets in the way
00:36:43.439 --> 00:36:47.200 Mira Brancu: and and you. You sort of alluded to this when you sort of
00:36:47.500 --> 00:36:52.052 Mira Brancu: mentioned grievances. Trauma, right? Sometimes what gets in the way is
00:36:53.300 --> 00:36:56.980 Mira Brancu: fears that are not fully in our own awareness we have.
00:36:56.980 --> 00:36:57.360 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Yeah.
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:00.030 Mira Brancu: And then our attempt to
00:37:00.970 --> 00:37:02.169 Mira Brancu: impose control.
00:37:02.250 --> 00:37:02.810 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Yes.
00:37:02.810 --> 00:37:09.070 Mira Brancu: Over things and people, because you think that's going to address your pain.
00:37:09.070 --> 00:37:09.440 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): But.
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:11.960 Mira Brancu: You don't even realize you have.
00:37:12.380 --> 00:37:14.510 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): I mean. Fear is scary, right? It's scary.
00:37:14.510 --> 00:37:15.319 Mira Brancu: You because.
00:37:15.780 --> 00:37:20.040 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): People try to control their fear by controlling others.
00:37:23.700 --> 00:37:25.731 Mira Brancu: Mike dropped right there.
00:37:26.340 --> 00:37:29.489 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): But it, that's what it is. Right. That's what we do. We.
00:37:29.490 --> 00:37:29.809 Mira Brancu: We got.
00:37:29.810 --> 00:37:34.240 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Controlling our fear by controlling others. And it's the worst thing you could possibly ever do.
00:37:34.450 --> 00:37:41.249 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): You you damage relationships, you damage situations, you damage environments. That's what you do. You don't control anything but more damage.
00:37:41.250 --> 00:37:49.449 Mira Brancu: And bad to yourself, cause you're not addressing your pain by doing that. You're adding more pain. But you're not really addressing what's there.
00:37:49.450 --> 00:37:49.930 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Exactly.
00:37:49.930 --> 00:37:55.279 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah. That's deep. I just wanna pause on that for a second.
00:37:56.620 --> 00:37:57.960 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Yes.
00:37:59.847 --> 00:38:01.220 Mira Brancu: you know, I'm
00:38:01.780 --> 00:38:10.876 Mira Brancu: as as you're probably starting to mentor a lot of other, you know. Early up and coming leaders right, and especially women of color.
00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:13.939 Mira Brancu: what are some things that you
00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:17.180 Mira Brancu: have learned that you're starting to impart
00:38:17.390 --> 00:38:22.570 Mira Brancu: to others about the challenges and the opportunities
00:38:22.620 --> 00:38:25.170 Mira Brancu: for engaging in this kind of work.
00:38:26.450 --> 00:38:29.850 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Yeah, you know, one of the things I think I'm learning
00:38:30.254 --> 00:38:37.360 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and that I'm trying my best to do for young women leaders that are meant that I mentor.
00:38:37.810 --> 00:38:53.352 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): I remember when I was, you know, growing up, and and women who are really helpful and really powerful in my life. But you know, but still I think at times, you know. Still try to try to tell me a little bit of how to do things either like how to dress, or how to speak, or
00:38:53.620 --> 00:39:18.329 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): you know, or how to approach things, and and that gave me anxiety. Cause I was like. This is just how I am. This is just how I am, you know. And I could never I could never subscribe to it. I was like, listen, that's gotta be me if I can't be me. I don't want to do it like that's just how I've always been my whole life. My mother will tell you. I have been the same way, like everyone in my family, was a Christian, has been the same like they used to call me Christy when I was growing up. Christy has been the same way her whole life.
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:41.989 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): because I just I just couldn't subscribe to like changing. It just was didn't work for me. But even so, I try my best when I'm working with young, like women who are growing up in one of these space is just really let them figure it out like let them, you know, kind of be their own purpose. Persons in their work and and their advocacy. Let them speak the way they want to speak
00:39:42.462 --> 00:39:51.787 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): long as it being respectful, always say, just be respectful. That's the one thing I have my role. Be respectful, you know. That's my one rule always be respectful, but you know
00:39:52.270 --> 00:40:04.770 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): but I just let them have that space to be their authentic selves. And I I really encourage other people to allow people to be their authentic selves. We don't have to be. All the same, we don't have to.
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:08.769 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): I have the same way we approach things or do things, and
00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:24.300 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): you know I was thinking about this is a little off, but I kind of bring it back. I was thinking about how we're now starting to talk more about neurodivergent do a diversion team and how we're starting to say, you know, they just learn different. And
00:40:24.300 --> 00:40:41.920 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and and it's like, you know, neurodivergency really shouldn't, even in some ways to me, I don't think we should be going that way, because people have always learned differently, and people have always been differently, and we shouldn't be categorizing them as different. We should just be allowing people to be authentic to themselves. And and I get why we do it. But I also don't
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:47.656 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): want people to start doing other labels to people, because we're still now allowing people just to be authentic in themselves
00:40:47.930 --> 00:41:12.589 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and learn. And I say this because I have a child who has autism, and and it's important to me that he's able to learn and be authentic to himself, and people aren't always trying to put more labels on him and and label him, and just instead of letting allowing him to be a joyous, happy child who just has to. He has other ways. He handles things, you know, and you know we get. And we get the services we need to handle, you know.
00:41:12.590 --> 00:41:22.519 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): So I think sometimes we have to just understand that if we're allowing people to be authentic, they're going to do it differently, and we don't always have to figure out a way to explain it
00:41:22.830 --> 00:41:40.133 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): or justify it for people we don't have to justify. We could just let them be authentic. Let them be authentic and let them learn. And that's why I've been trying to do it. My mentoring is just let people have their way of figuring it out, and let them being authentic in some, you know ways. But but, like I said, my caveat is, be respectful.
00:41:40.650 --> 00:41:46.931 Mira Brancu: Well, let me get on my soapbox here for a second, because you know what you're touching on is
00:41:47.580 --> 00:41:51.329 Mira Brancu: You know a lot of what I'm passionate about when it comes to
00:41:51.450 --> 00:41:53.849 Mira Brancu: number one redefining leadership
00:41:53.880 --> 00:42:08.909 Mira Brancu: that encompasses more styles than just our typical male dominated command and control. One size fits all single hero model. There's lots of ways to lead. And, in fact, the current
00:42:08.980 --> 00:42:16.439 Mira Brancu: ways to lead requires the kinds of skills that you just mentioned. It requires you to
00:42:16.610 --> 00:42:36.569 Mira Brancu: be collaborative, be able to help. You know, different people work together. It requires a certain level of empathy and understanding for lots of differences and being comfortable with that or leaning into it. And so I love that. And then also, you know.
00:42:36.780 --> 00:42:40.469 Mira Brancu: leadership development programs often don't include leadership identity.
00:42:40.932 --> 00:42:50.610 Mira Brancu: And how that comes. That's in another social identity. On top of all the other social identities that haven't hasn't really been defined. And yet you're you're sort of
00:42:50.850 --> 00:42:57.610 Mira Brancu: putting it on as another identity, as you're walking around in the world. And that's kind of what we're speaking to.
00:42:57.890 --> 00:43:02.419 Mira Brancu: The other thing that I really love that you mentioned is
00:43:03.340 --> 00:43:04.070 Mira Brancu: he?
00:43:04.330 --> 00:43:07.370 Mira Brancu: If when we label people.
00:43:07.640 --> 00:43:08.630 Mira Brancu: it.
00:43:09.526 --> 00:43:12.030 Mira Brancu: allows us the excuse
00:43:12.120 --> 00:43:15.290 Mira Brancu: to not have to work to understand somebody else.
00:43:15.290 --> 00:43:16.400 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Exactly.
00:43:16.580 --> 00:43:18.329 Mira Brancu: That's all right. And so.
00:43:18.330 --> 00:43:18.790 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Like way.
00:43:19.196 --> 00:43:22.040 Mira Brancu: When we don't get along with people.
00:43:22.680 --> 00:43:34.249 Mira Brancu: and then we start labeling them. That's well. I don't get along with them because blah, they're they're neurodiverse, and they don't get it. Or you know, whatever. It's just your excuse for not trying to understand somebody else. That's all.
00:43:34.250 --> 00:43:41.409 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Exactly. And that's that's exactly my point. And I remember when I was a therapist, I used to always tell people
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:53.460 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): we're gonna separate the person from the problem. You are this person. You're not this, this you or this person? You are beautiful, you're this. We're not going to attach this to you, or I don't want you walking around attaching
00:43:53.580 --> 00:43:56.890 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): things that you're experiencing as who your identity is.
00:43:57.200 --> 00:44:07.650 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Your identity is this beautiful, bright, smart, creative? This is who you are. These are things that you're doing, experiencing and biggest things, you know. And so it's like
00:44:07.710 --> 00:44:14.150 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): exactly what you said, Dr. Mira. It's like when we have, we overlabel, we get in a habit of not having to learn
00:44:15.140 --> 00:44:15.990 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): right.
00:44:16.470 --> 00:44:17.110 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:44:17.250 --> 00:44:17.870 Mira Brancu: it blocks.
00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:18.730 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Learning!
00:44:18.730 --> 00:44:24.739 Mira Brancu: Which is dangerous. It's really dangerous. Yeah, close it, it closes our mind, it closes our options.
00:44:24.740 --> 00:44:25.440 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Aye.
00:44:25.860 --> 00:44:44.199 Mira Brancu: Okay, you are listening to the hard skills with me, Doctor Mirabrancou and our guest, Christian nunes. We're really getting deep into it. But we do have to take an ad break. And if you'd like to join us online, you can right now live. We're on Linkedin or Youtube at Talkradio, Nic, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:46:47.910 --> 00:46:52.619 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Doctor Mirabuku and our guest, Christian nunes.
00:46:52.700 --> 00:46:58.837 Mira Brancu: We have been getting deep into all kinds of
00:46:59.580 --> 00:47:12.429 Mira Brancu: leadership identity. Understand how to understand other people at a deeper level in order to connect, how to not use excuses like labeling. We we really explore this.
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:17.420 Mira Brancu: And now, sort of coming back to your role as president of now.
00:47:19.050 --> 00:47:25.720 Mira Brancu: one of the things that has sort of disappointed me is that when we think about women in leadership.
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:28.350 Mira Brancu: we often assume
00:47:28.420 --> 00:47:35.060 Mira Brancu: that they all must have a feminist perspective if they're a woman in leadership and are focused on elevating all women.
00:47:35.140 --> 00:47:38.009 Mira Brancu: But unfortunately, that isn't always the case.
00:47:38.080 --> 00:47:38.880 Mira Brancu: because
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:41.617 Mira Brancu: it does require
00:47:42.260 --> 00:47:54.689 Mira Brancu: adding an additional lens to how feminism works, which is the commitment to social justice, all women, not to some women. Right? And so I'm curious your thoughts on how.
00:47:55.022 --> 00:48:06.299 Mira Brancu: 1st of all, the impact of that has on women and leadership. When there isn't that focus? Right? What are we losing out on? And then, you know the flip to? That is
00:48:06.843 --> 00:48:11.030 Mira Brancu: how can we? You know, help women?
00:48:11.524 --> 00:48:13.420 Mira Brancu: Lean fully into that
00:48:15.110 --> 00:48:15.780 Mira Brancu: quote.
00:48:15.780 --> 00:48:24.130 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): 2 interesting things I want to share. And the 1st is, I think, that part of the problem. While we see a lot of times. Women in leadership.
00:48:24.220 --> 00:48:42.590 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): sometimes not fully like support other women is because it's so hard for women to get in leadership positions. Women represent such a small percentage under 10% of leadership positions. Only a few percent are 4% of CEO positions like C-suite positions. Right?
00:48:43.305 --> 00:48:45.030 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): And then, when you're there.
00:48:45.555 --> 00:48:49.599 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): you have these, you're given these unrealistic expectations.
00:48:49.610 --> 00:49:14.640 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): They're not considering your role like multiple roles. You might wear other roles you might wear as a woman. And but, however, I I find it really interesting how motherhood is penalized, but fatherhood is celebrated, so fathers are often celebrated for being fathers taking off, you know parental leave. But mothers are like penalized and lose, you know, roles and titles, and demoted if they take
00:49:14.750 --> 00:49:19.570 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): maternity leave. You know, it's just a really a really interesting thing that occurs.
00:49:19.680 --> 00:49:21.650 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and I think often
00:49:21.740 --> 00:49:27.270 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): women sometimes might feel that they have to prove that they're able to handle it
00:49:27.843 --> 00:49:32.799 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and feel like part of handling, it might be, you know.
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:37.889 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): taking on some very what they believe are masculine leadership roles
00:49:38.495 --> 00:49:47.499 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): in order to show that they are capable. And and unfortunately, I think that is what society has toxic. Masculinity in society has taught
00:49:47.910 --> 00:49:56.890 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): us, and women have also ingrained that into their belief system that they have to be this way in order to be the show that they are really capable of leading.
00:49:57.110 --> 00:50:12.959 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): I think, as we have pushed more feminism. And we are starting to see more women kind of challenge those things and push policy. Like, you know, pregnancy workers, fairness act and paid family medical leave act and things like that
00:50:13.302 --> 00:50:39.550 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and then push more like leadership, and like, you know, and push back on gender parity and gender wage gap. I think we're starting to see women speak out more about why I don't have to do. You know, I don't have to be different. I don't have to do those things. So I think that's probably what it is, partly and we just have to continue encouraging women that you don't have to change who you are to be a successful leader. You don't have to relinquish one of your roles
00:50:39.550 --> 00:50:44.070 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): in order to be a successful leader, but we also have to provide more supports to women
00:50:44.240 --> 00:51:03.210 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): in the workplace, so they can be successful with their multiple identities. We can't penalize them for having multiple identities. We have to also make allowances to understand and multiple identities and not look at it as something that's negative or a deficiency or lack.
00:51:03.350 --> 00:51:10.069 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): The second part of that is, that's very interesting, too. I think we have to
00:51:10.260 --> 00:51:24.430 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): constantly also think about a lot of times you use the term lean in right, lean in, lean in, lean in. And I get the term right. We're saying, you know, you have to lean into your leadership. But do we?
00:51:25.105 --> 00:51:37.230 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): What do we really have lean into it right? Because we are any leaders like we already are leaders. We already have the full leadership potential. And so I think it's also about how we, how we challenge not women, but
00:51:37.230 --> 00:51:45.249 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): the leadership culture to change their mindset on how they see women. Women don't need to lead into leadership.
00:51:45.250 --> 00:52:08.989 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): People need to accept women's leadership. So it's a different flip on it. We have to stop expecting women to lean into leadership. We will have to start accepting women's leadership as it is, and understanding women are just as qualified. They have the same training, the same education, the same work. So women don't need to lean into leadership when people have to accept that women are just as qualified leaders, and we have to be able to look at them
00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:21.149 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): as qualified, instead of expect expecting them to shift and change. Because we don't ask man to lean into leadership. We don't ask them to change. We accept them as the leaders. They are. So I think it's a big push for
00:52:21.220 --> 00:52:38.869 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): organizations and leadership culture to start start shifting our language and our expectations for women. And we have to start seeing that women don't need to change. We are enough. We're capable. And you all need to start like opening up the space for us as we are. So I just wanna say that.
00:52:38.870 --> 00:52:51.610 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm gonna just add to that. So, Fox, for a second, you know. I I write now a lot about high achieving women who are ambivalent about leadership.
00:52:52.130 --> 00:52:57.080 Mira Brancu: And I really appreciate this additional perspective in that
00:52:57.220 --> 00:53:00.440 Mira Brancu: when I write about that, I am not
00:53:00.600 --> 00:53:08.030 Mira Brancu: advocating or asking that they should be leaning into leadership. They're ambivalent for a very specific reason, and that is because.
00:53:08.411 --> 00:53:10.169 Mira Brancu: they have seen the light.
00:53:10.250 --> 00:53:12.590 Mira Brancu: and they see
00:53:12.620 --> 00:53:19.700 Mira Brancu: how sometimes in their organizations they are not set up appropriately for success, and they're put in
00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:23.880 Mira Brancu: these extraordinarily tenuous
00:53:24.374 --> 00:53:30.730 Mira Brancu: positions and asked to take on the world with limited resources. And they're thinking.
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:45.569 Mira Brancu: do I really want that? Because that is an awful lot, and nobody else had to deal with that, you know. And so they're wisely ambivalent about whether to take something on. And so if you want
00:53:45.730 --> 00:53:52.989 Mira Brancu: to empower women to take on more leadership roles because you recognize what they bring to the table.
00:53:53.411 --> 00:54:06.728 Mira Brancu: With all of their skill sets like you said, make some room and make it really like supportive and surrounded with the same resources that men have gotten all along right.
00:54:07.120 --> 00:54:24.039 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Absolutely. And I I'll I appreciate that point. You're bringing up, Dr. Amira, because a lot you're right. A lot of women are very ambivalent because they are required to take on more than any male counterparts have to take on, and they're giving absolutely no grace right
00:54:24.160 --> 00:54:25.869 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): to make any mistakes.
00:54:25.880 --> 00:54:37.169 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): So I think that's really important, that and you that you name that because we do have to allow the grace to occur. But we also have to have stop having the expectation
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:40.380 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): that women have to do more to prove their worth.
00:54:40.560 --> 00:54:53.970 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): And and that's why I always say we are enough. We don't need to prove our worth. We have to stop expecting women to prove their worth. At all. We don't need to do that, but we have to definitely start shifting the culture of leadership.
00:54:53.970 --> 00:55:12.249 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): to stop expecting women and have to prove their worth, so that women don't become ambivalent because we're losing out a lot of talented leaders in this process. And one thing we know, like statistically, they say that when women are leaders they consider everyone, they take everyone into consideration right. They look out for the best interests of everyone. So when we lose leaders.
00:55:12.320 --> 00:55:21.429 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): women leaders, we're losing leaders who look out for the best interests of the whole entire company the whole best interest of the whole organization. And that's a loss for everyone.
00:55:21.870 --> 00:55:33.470 Mira Brancu: Absolutely absolutely it. It's been absolutely marvelous having you on. What is the one thing that you would like this audience to take away from our talk today. And also where can they find you?
00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:58.189 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Sure. So I think. Well, first, st this has been just a wonderful conversation. I thank you for having me on your show. I really appreciate it, just talking about the intersections of mental health and legislation and advocacy work. But I think if anything, I would just encourage everyone to just, you know definitely. Just remember your purpose. Remember why you do this work. Remember
00:55:58.190 --> 00:56:04.780 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): why you're involved in either mental health or advocacy work or activism.
00:56:04.780 --> 00:56:26.919 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): and know that you can do all right. You don't have to choose and also that you don't have to pick an identity. You can be truthfully, authentically and purposely who you are, and that is a beautiful thing. So lean. If we are leaning and lean into that alright, lean into your full, authentic, purposeful self, and not be afraid.
00:56:27.930 --> 00:56:48.239 Mira Brancu: Excellent, excellent! Thank you. And if you do want to also follow Christian directly she is at Christian under slash under hyphen, Perez, PREZ! For now at Instagram, so you can find her there as well.
00:56:48.240 --> 00:56:48.986 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Thank you.
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:57.400 Mira Brancu: So. Audience, what did you take away? And more importantly, what is one small change that you can implement this week, based on what Christian shared with us.
00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:19.650 Mira Brancu: Share it with us on Linkedin or Instagram, at Mirabranku and Christian Nunes under slash Pres for now. And we're also on Facebook and twitter and twitch and all over the place. And at Talkradio, NYC. So Linkedin is where I live online. So that's where I'll respond. Christian, I think, is instagram and X as well.
00:57:19.670 --> 00:57:22.399 Mira Brancu: And so leave your your thoughts.
00:57:22.590 --> 00:57:33.980 Mira Brancu: In addition to being a live show, we're on apple, spotify and Amazon podcasts help us increase our visibility, reach and impact by leaving a review.
00:57:34.120 --> 00:57:37.609 Mira Brancu: The stuff we talk about on the show is part of our research.
00:57:37.630 --> 00:57:53.399 Mira Brancu: based strategic leadership, pathway, roadmap that we also teach in our towerscope leadership Academy, a private coaching and learning community for socially conscious leaders in disrupted learning and innovation industries. You can check us out@gotowerscope.com, and click on Leadership Academy
00:57:53.750 --> 00:58:02.999 Mira Brancu: and thank you for talkradio Dot, Nyc. For hosting. I'm Doctor Mira Brancu, your host of the Hard Skills show. Thank you for joining us today, Christian, so lovely to have you on the show.
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:04.090 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Thank you.
00:58:04.090 --> 00:58:08.180 Mira Brancu: Absolutely have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from bye. Everybody.
00:58:08.410 --> 00:58:09.320 Christian F. Nunes (she/her): Aye.
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