Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
We often think about the many competing responsibilities that we have as leaders. But do we have to take responsibility for them all? Can we instead be responsive? In this episode you will learn the guiding principles of Responsive Leadership. This includes the seven core values and seven essential skills to approach leadership through a stance of being Responsive TO rather than taking Responsibility FOR in your work.
We will discuss the ways in which many of the pressures of work are often framed from an assumption that we have to take responsibility for expectations that are placed on us, when we are more likely to be effective when we can be responsive to the expectations instead.
We'll talk about the importance of Clarity Skills, which are tools to help leaders create Role Clarity, Systems Clarity, and Communication Clarity. Additionally, we'll spend some time talking about how Dr. Callandrillo came to create this model after working in an industry with high levels of stress and expectations from leaders, particularly middle managers. Finally, we will go over ways that listeners can apply these ideas to their own work or with their own teams.
Traci is an expert in Responsive Leadership with over 25 years of experience leading diverse teams. She has worked in higher education administration and healthcare, and led a large student services team through their pandemic response, supporting more than 15k students. Traci has a Ph.D. in Counseling Psychology and is a former VP for Professional Practice for the Society of Counseling Psychology. She is the owner and chief consultant at the Callandrillo Consulting Group and is working on a book focused on her leadership framework, Responsive Leadership.
LinkedIn Profile: www.linkedin.com/in/callandrilloconsultinggroup Facebook: @Callandrillo Consulting Group LLC Instagram: @callandrillogroup Website: www.callandrillogroup.com
Responsive Leadership, Role Clarity, #responsiveleadership #TheHardSkills #leadershipdevelopment
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
On this episode of The Hard Skills, Dr. Brancu is joined by guest Dr. Traci Callandrillo, an expert in Responsive Leadership as they will discuss the importance of Clarity Skills amongst other similar topics. To start the episode, we learn about Dr. Callandrillo’s background and how she got interested in learning more about leadership. Before starting her own consulting company, Dr. Callandrillo was a therapist at a university, so she dives into her time there and shares some of the lessons she learned while working there. As the segment comes to a close, Dr. Brancu then asks what competing expectations or dilemmas often come up that one may face working in higher education or any career in general.
After the first break, we return to Dr. Brancu and Dr. Callandrillo picking up where they left off in the previous segment, which discusses the biggest challenges that may arise. From there, Dr. Brancu then asks about Dr. Callandrillo’s guiding principles, her seven values, and the seven essential skills she uses in her work.
As the conversation continues, Dr. Brancu and Dr. Callandrillo discuss how to keep people engaged when they are hoping to contribute to a team when ideas may not resonate or during a slow period of time. Dr. Brancu then adds to Dr. Callandrillo’s thoughts by highlighting the importance of responsive leadership and how much of a helpful tool it really is.
As the episode comes to an end, Dr. Brancu asks Dr. Callandrillo what advice she can offer to the listeners based on everything they have talked about, specifically about responsive leadership and furthering clarity skills. From there, Dr. Brancu asks how to respond to the why without being responsible for the what. To learn more about Dr. Callandrillo’s work, please visit http://www.callandrillogroup.com/ as well as her LinkedIn page www.linkedin.com/in/callandrilloconsultinggroup
00:00:42.820 --> 00:00:57.339 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabu. It's where we discuss the nuanced hard skills meaning the most challenging soft skills needed to make a real impact through your leadership.
00:00:57.730 --> 00:01:03.460 Mira Brancu: I am your host again, Dr. Mirabu. I am here with Dr. Tracy Calendar.
00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:19.129 Mira Brancu: Now for me, let me introduce myself first.st I'm a leadership consulting and coaching psychologist, founder of the Towerscope Leadership Academy and associate professor, a psychology today columnist and author of the Millennials, guide to workplace politics.
00:01:19.500 --> 00:01:30.450 Mira Brancu: and I had my own leadership career before transitioning to helping team and high achieving women navigate their leadership complexities. So thank you for joining us today on our journey. Now
00:01:30.590 --> 00:01:37.630 Mira Brancu: onto the focus of our episode today, we often think about the many competing responsibilities that we have as leaders.
00:01:38.110 --> 00:01:43.290 Mira Brancu: But do we really have to take responsibility for all of them?
00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:46.179 Mira Brancu: Can we instead be responsive?
00:01:46.720 --> 00:01:48.229 Mira Brancu: Is there a difference
00:01:48.280 --> 00:02:00.140 Mira Brancu: in this episode? We will talk with Tracy about her responsive leadership model, including guiding principles. 7 core values, 7 essential skills to approach leadership.
00:02:00.380 --> 00:02:05.159 Mira Brancu: And her stance is this, you can be responsive to
00:02:05.450 --> 00:02:09.220 Mira Brancu: rather than taking responsibility for your work.
00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:10.779 Mira Brancu: Let's find out how.
00:02:11.330 --> 00:02:14.530 Mira Brancu: But before I introduce you to her.
00:02:14.820 --> 00:02:18.159 Mira Brancu: if you haven't heard on my last episode.
00:02:18.590 --> 00:02:22.530 Mira Brancu: we are opening up applications. This Friday.
00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:23.650 Mira Brancu: June
00:02:23.700 --> 00:02:24.940 Mira Brancu: 21st
00:02:25.790 --> 00:02:31.380 Mira Brancu: for the fall, 2024 cohort of the towerscope Leadership Academy.
00:02:31.550 --> 00:02:44.070 Mira Brancu: Right? The Academy focuses on building a community of high achieving growth-minded leaders looking to expertly navigate today's complex work politics within disrupted industries and make a greater impact.
00:02:44.340 --> 00:02:46.500 Mira Brancu: So who is this right? For
00:02:47.140 --> 00:02:56.460 Mira Brancu: if you're experiencing a tension between your personal expectations, organizational culture factors, your values and authenticity.
00:02:56.530 --> 00:02:58.139 Mira Brancu: This is the community for you.
00:02:58.210 --> 00:03:01.940 Mira Brancu: If you are feeling blindsided by workplace politics.
00:03:01.970 --> 00:03:04.870 Mira Brancu: a desire to be more strategic and less tactical.
00:03:04.930 --> 00:03:13.729 Mira Brancu: a desire to feel more effective on your leadership journey, and ambivalent or concerned about your leadership trajectory.
00:03:13.820 --> 00:03:19.070 Mira Brancu: This is the time to take a reflective pause and consider that maybe
00:03:19.550 --> 00:03:22.730 Mira Brancu: a structured, supportive leadership, learning community
00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:24.590 Mira Brancu: kind of like a lab.
00:03:24.700 --> 00:03:28.779 Mira Brancu: as Tracy has explained to me, and when she was listening to me, talk about this
00:03:28.880 --> 00:03:31.270 Mira Brancu: might support your next steps. So
00:03:31.410 --> 00:03:34.340 Mira Brancu: applications close. July 19.th
00:03:34.460 --> 00:03:37.770 Mira Brancu: We're holding an open house on July 15th to learn more
00:03:37.940 --> 00:03:46.269 Mira Brancu: and connect with current members, and privately ask them any questions that you have about what the community is like to make sure that it could be a good fit for you
00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:47.570 Mira Brancu: to learn more
00:03:47.710 --> 00:03:56.500 Mira Brancu: and apply, or just register for the open house. You could just check us out@www.go towerscope.com.
00:03:56.580 --> 00:03:58.490 Mira Brancu: and click on Leadership Academy.
00:03:59.050 --> 00:04:00.250 Mira Brancu: Okay.
00:04:00.430 --> 00:04:17.509 Mira Brancu: that was my ad for myself. Now, with no further ado, I'm excited to introduce our special guest. Today Dr. Tracy Calendar Tracy has worked in higher education, administration, and healthcare and led a large student services team through their pandemic ex response.
00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:21.530 Mira Brancu: supporting more than 15,000 students. During that time
00:04:21.690 --> 00:04:31.470 Mira Brancu: she has a Ph. D. In counseling psychology is a former vp for professional practice, for the Society of Counsel and society of counseling psychology.
00:04:31.570 --> 00:04:43.030 Mira Brancu: She is the owner and chief consultant at the calendar consulting group and is working on a book focused on her leadership framework, responsive leadership. That's why we're talking to her today. So
00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:44.150 Mira Brancu: are you ready?
00:04:44.260 --> 00:04:56.899 Mira Brancu: Let's get started. Get out your pens. I have my pen here today and paper or your devices. If you're not a pen and paper kind of person, reflect deeply, identify one small step to further your hard skill, muscle.
00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.810 Mira Brancu: welcome and great to have you on the show. Jc.
00:04:59.810 --> 00:05:02.909 Traci Callandrillo: Thank you so much, Mira. It's great to be with you today, excited to be.
00:05:02.910 --> 00:05:04.330 Mira Brancu: Absolutely.
00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:09.870 Mira Brancu: Okay. So let's get really deep into this right away.
00:05:09.870 --> 00:05:10.199 Traci Callandrillo: Yeah, okay.
00:05:10.200 --> 00:05:12.410 Mira Brancu: You are in higher Ed administration.
00:05:13.050 --> 00:05:18.920 Mira Brancu: How did you get into this particular topic like what led you to be so interested in this.
00:05:19.210 --> 00:05:28.150 Traci Callandrillo: Yeah, thank you. That's a really good question, because I think that origin story is really foundational to where my thinking went with some of the the pieces to this
00:05:28.496 --> 00:05:54.839 Traci Callandrillo: so just to ex expand, expand my background a little bit, I trained primarily as a therapist when I was in school. And so I started out providing therapy in higher education settings. So a university counseling center, which, if you think about it, is kind of a unique place to provide therapy, because unlike a private practice where you set a lot of it yourself, you're the business owner. You're working in an institution
00:05:54.860 --> 00:05:59.450 Traci Callandrillo: doing something that's pretty different than most of the other people who work there.
00:05:59.750 --> 00:06:24.949 Traci Callandrillo: And you have a bunch of different pieces to what it means to be an employee at a university that sometimes don't always line up with the the pieces that are the skill set of being a therapist. So that's my background. As I started in that kind of work I moved up into leadership. And so my 1st big leadership roles were being the manager of a big team of clinicians.
00:06:24.960 --> 00:06:29.199 Traci Callandrillo: And so another really unusual place to be is
00:06:29.410 --> 00:06:34.419 Traci Callandrillo: not that I would frame it like this all the time. But let's just say telling therapists what to do.
00:06:34.520 --> 00:06:47.519 Traci Callandrillo: which is again unusual. And it's certainly not how therapists are trained like we're gonna work in a model where everybody does some things the same. And so one of the big pieces of this model that I took from that is
00:06:48.495 --> 00:06:49.380 Traci Callandrillo: how
00:06:49.680 --> 00:07:02.513 Traci Callandrillo: essentially ineffective it is to just tell people what to do, if that's not something that they can understand and relate to, and so finding a way to engage where I wasn't going to take responsibility for
00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:23.239 Traci Callandrillo: their way of understanding the system per se. But we would work on that together, but we would all share responsibility for being ethical. Following our legal, our legal requirements pieces like that. When I moved into leadership roles where I was then outside of the center. More, I was talking about the work, instead of
00:07:23.260 --> 00:07:32.610 Traci Callandrillo: so much managing. Directly the clinicians. This became even more pressing for me. We can talk about some examples later, but often
00:07:33.850 --> 00:07:42.289 Traci Callandrillo: let's take a parent who's calling because they're concerned about their child legally. That therapist has a confidential relationship with this adult.
00:07:42.450 --> 00:07:43.580 Traci Callandrillo: You know, if a
00:07:43.650 --> 00:07:46.380 Traci Callandrillo: the parent called a therapist out of the blue, and that
00:07:46.420 --> 00:08:03.929 Traci Callandrillo: client was 40 years old, that there was no way they would break that confidentiality. The laws are the same for the 18 year old at a university, but I would absolutely understand why they were calling. They were scared. They wanted information, and then, legally, I'm required to not give it to them.
00:08:04.140 --> 00:08:21.370 Traci Callandrillo: So that's where I really started to build this idea of. I can't take responsibility for what that parent is asking me for, because I literally can't do it. I'd lose my license, or I'd put my team at risk. But what I can instead is, think about, what are they asking for? Why do they need it?
00:08:21.930 --> 00:08:24.489 Traci Callandrillo: And are there ways that I can build out?
00:08:24.828 --> 00:08:29.740 Traci Callandrillo: An approach for my team so that they're not super stressed out every time a parent calls
00:08:29.880 --> 00:08:32.069 Traci Callandrillo: expressing concern about their child.
00:08:32.610 --> 00:08:36.179 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious to hear more about
00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:42.248 Mira Brancu: you had mentioned. Like, being a therapist. And higher, Ed is
00:08:43.340 --> 00:08:44.890 Mira Brancu: feels very different
00:08:44.990 --> 00:08:53.449 Mira Brancu: than many of the other roles in higher Ed, and that it didn't always line up with what it means to to
00:08:54.810 --> 00:09:12.160 Mira Brancu: that some of the things that you were required to do didn't line up with what it means to be a therapist. Is that one example? Or were there other examples that felt like it was hard to be a therapist in this kind of environment. Was it like related to regulatory? What? What were the sort of additional competing demands.
00:09:12.160 --> 00:09:28.799 Traci Callandrillo: Yeah, that's a great. Thank you. So to expand on the competing demands piece just on the face of it, higher education offers mental health services because that helps students be successful. It helps them to graduate. It is just. It's not a, you know, altruistic.
00:09:28.800 --> 00:09:46.479 Traci Callandrillo: We have a few 1 million dollars. So we'll go ahead and also give you healthcare. It's because it's important to the core mission of the university for students to be successful and graduate. And so when, before I got into my role of higher level leadership, I did not understand that, and I
00:09:46.530 --> 00:09:48.300 Traci Callandrillo: got an understanding that
00:09:48.800 --> 00:09:55.349 Traci Callandrillo: why a therapist might work an end with an individual client needs to be a really different strategy than why?
00:09:55.781 --> 00:10:20.388 Traci Callandrillo: I might need to talk with other people at the university about the benefits of offering healthcare to our students. And so when those things hit against each other, though it can be really important for the person who's in that kind of higher level leadership role to understand the requirements and the parameters of both who's asking for something like, Hey, we need you to, you know.
00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:39.270 Traci Callandrillo: see a whole bunch of students without doing any kind of intake session which is not appropriate over here. You might have a therapist who says I need to be able to see my clients as long as I want to. But then we're not seeing very many students. So these things hit each other in a way that create dichotomies.
00:10:39.550 --> 00:10:48.829 Traci Callandrillo: And for leaders, we can talk about how this might play out in other industries, too, but for leaders, when you're faced with a dilemma where
00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:53.839 Traci Callandrillo: you take responsibility for trying to meet the needs of both sides of that dilemma.
00:10:53.890 --> 00:10:58.229 Traci Callandrillo: That's where I think people can get really caught in a bind of.
00:10:58.370 --> 00:11:06.589 Traci Callandrillo: I'm terrible at this. I don't know what to do next. I'm not sure. You know you've got a bunch of angry therapists who don't want to do that kind of work. The way that
00:11:06.670 --> 00:11:08.189 Traci Callandrillo: that you know
00:11:08.610 --> 00:11:27.559 Traci Callandrillo: Controller might say, well, this is how we have the money to do it. So and that person might say, well, I don't really understand the impact of what you're doing anyway. So why don't we just not do it? That person has a a bunch of competing expectations that then require them to think about. What's our strategy, to get behind the
00:11:27.700 --> 00:11:40.930 Traci Callandrillo: responsibility piece to the ways that we can be again responsive to it. So we're taking it into consideration. But we're not saying sure. We'll definitely, you know. Let you see your clients as much as you want to
00:11:40.970 --> 00:11:43.789 Traci Callandrillo: kind of as as that example continues.
00:11:43.790 --> 00:11:48.489 Mira Brancu: Yeah. I could imagine that is exceptionally challenging, especially when there's
00:11:49.316 --> 00:11:50.669 Mira Brancu: a real
00:11:51.450 --> 00:11:59.079 Mira Brancu: urgent matter or crisis like a student with suicidal ideation, right? That needs a lot more care.
00:11:59.658 --> 00:12:01.770 Mira Brancu: Then, like your typical
00:12:01.800 --> 00:12:06.430 Mira Brancu: whatever 6 to 12 sessions allows on a college campus. Is that
00:12:06.864 --> 00:12:15.830 Mira Brancu: one of those sort of like major competing demands about how to be responsive to both the regulatory expectations as well as the student needs.
00:12:16.040 --> 00:12:27.150 Traci Callandrillo: Yeah, definitely, I wanna come to just highlight the regulatory piece you're talking about. So right now, we're in the higher education industry. And it is an industry that is pretty regulated.
00:12:27.575 --> 00:12:32.579 Traci Callandrillo: Some of them are are regulations. Everybody kind of knows about like
00:12:33.131 --> 00:12:46.609 Traci Callandrillo: Ferpa, which is privacy around educational information title 9 requirements. But then, to your point, there are also regulations around what a university's responsibilities are when a student is in distress.
00:12:46.630 --> 00:12:52.989 Traci Callandrillo: and so those hit up against other pieces of the picture of what?
00:12:53.355 --> 00:13:00.849 Traci Callandrillo: In the higher ed example, how that system is meant to work effectively. Some things are just not possible if they're not legal.
00:13:00.860 --> 00:13:13.159 Traci Callandrillo: But this is a lot of other industries, too, where there may be a way in which you have to do what you have to do. You can't vary from it, but it doesn't meet the business expectation that might be there.
00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:29.290 Traci Callandrillo: So you've got to figure out how you're gonna navigate that. And some of that is just being really clear about what's possible. And that's where the the way of being responsive, you know is a is a solution. When you can't take responsibility for an expectation.
00:13:30.280 --> 00:13:34.119 Mira Brancu: Yeah, really, quite nuanced.
00:13:34.420 --> 00:13:35.275 Mira Brancu: And
00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:38.630 Mira Brancu: I'm wondering, what are
00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:40.100 Mira Brancu: the
00:13:40.530 --> 00:13:45.009 Mira Brancu: competing, the like sort of typical competing expectations or dilemmas
00:13:45.460 --> 00:13:47.890 Mira Brancu: that often come up and
00:13:48.423 --> 00:14:04.900 Mira Brancu: we're not gonna be able to cover them just yet, because we're reaching an ad break. So I want you to sort of start thinking about an audience. Expect this coming after the ad break. We're gonna talk a little bit more about the most common competing
00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:07.799 Mira Brancu: expectations or dilemmas, or demands
00:14:07.850 --> 00:14:11.519 Mira Brancu: that many folks face, not just in higher Ed, but
00:14:11.650 --> 00:14:20.000 Mira Brancu: in many highly regulated the and disrupted industries these days. Right? So you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mayor Bronku
00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:38.200 Mira Brancu: and our guest, Dr. Tracy Calendar. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern. If you would like to join our online audience and ask questions right here in real time you can find us on Linkedin or Youtube at talk radio, Nyc, and we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.
00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:53.710 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome back with the hard skills.
00:16:53.770 --> 00:16:57.760 Mira Brancu: And our guest today, Dr. Tracy Calendar of responsive leadership.
00:16:58.180 --> 00:17:04.290 Mira Brancu: So Tracy, we started talking about like the sort of typical competing demands.
00:17:04.349 --> 00:17:08.530 Mira Brancu: dilemmas or expectations that a lot of people face.
00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:12.709 Mira Brancu: that make it hard to be responsible
00:17:13.190 --> 00:17:14.780 Mira Brancu: to what is being asked
00:17:14.980 --> 00:17:16.729 Mira Brancu: or even responsive
00:17:17.290 --> 00:17:17.810 Mira Brancu: and
00:17:18.810 --> 00:17:20.520 Mira Brancu: Some of the things I caught
00:17:20.890 --> 00:17:30.520 Mira Brancu: are things like regulatory or financial demands on the system that compete with like client or customer or consi constituent needs.
00:17:30.520 --> 00:17:31.070 Traci Callandrillo: Hmm.
00:17:31.070 --> 00:17:32.360 Mira Brancu: What else do you see?
00:17:33.580 --> 00:17:40.869 Traci Callandrillo: Yeah, I think when you think of higher education, one of the biggest pieces there is that higher education is essentially values based
00:17:41.040 --> 00:17:42.070 Traci Callandrillo: entity.
00:17:42.610 --> 00:17:56.289 Traci Callandrillo: That's what higher learning is. It's it's about attaining knowledge and moving people to a point where they then achieve a degree. And so many people who work at universities. Their work is driven by values based
00:17:56.750 --> 00:17:57.730 Traci Callandrillo: core
00:17:57.980 --> 00:18:00.369 Traci Callandrillo: principles. And that's great.
00:18:00.450 --> 00:18:21.649 Traci Callandrillo: What what happens, though? And I think we could use an example that's pretty universal in a lot of industries, and that is work modality, particularly in this time after the pandemic. So universities, just like everyone, had to completely pivot how they do their work and how they provide
00:18:21.870 --> 00:18:23.550 Traci Callandrillo: the essential
00:18:24.247 --> 00:18:38.119 Traci Callandrillo: services and functions. That a university was. Most universities, either, were already online and then didn't do some of those functions, or they were not online. And everything was happening in person. And so
00:18:38.560 --> 00:18:46.514 Traci Callandrillo: we don't need to get into the specifics of what happened during the pandemic. I will say it is just phenomenal to look at the leadership.
00:18:47.780 --> 00:19:09.479 Traci Callandrillo: the, the the leadership, accomplishments of everybody in that industry, for how quickly they pivoted to be able to completely learn how to, you know, offer their classes online, take care of Internet international students who got trapped in the United States and couldn't go home. Create. To go back to the Mental health piece, create a virtual counseling center in 2 weeks, which is.
00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:10.130 Mira Brancu: But happened.
00:19:10.130 --> 00:19:36.470 Traci Callandrillo: Campus, and do that with all of the regulatory pieces that were required of them. So but a core piece that most universities are still working their way through is, if we could do some of these things virtually, why are we coming back in person? How do we meet the needs of the employees, many of whom are like, Yeah, I don't wanna go back to the campus again, you know, and have my commutes and all of the other things that them they might experience as challenging.
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.159 Traci Callandrillo: And yet for a campus that's predominantly.
00:19:39.180 --> 00:19:41.719 Traci Callandrillo: physically present students.
00:19:42.260 --> 00:19:58.789 Traci Callandrillo: They don't want to come to a university and sit in an empty room and watch a person on a screen, or have no way of interacting with people who they might see as potential mentors or ways in which they want to learn in real time, in face to face spaces. And so
00:19:58.990 --> 00:20:00.919 Traci Callandrillo: leaders have to think about
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.599 Traci Callandrillo: both sides of this.
00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:03.730 Traci Callandrillo: and
00:20:04.460 --> 00:20:15.610 Traci Callandrillo: I think, a series of questions that often don't get asked, and where responsive leadership principles come into play here is to take a step back and say, what is it that we're solving for.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:19.900 Traci Callandrillo: and what are the ways in which we could achieve
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:38.330 Traci Callandrillo: some of the need for the workers who don't want to be in person all the time, while also meeting the needs of let's say I'm oversimplifying this. But the students who want to have actual human beings with them in a live classroom or in live services of some sort. And
00:20:38.620 --> 00:21:00.130 Traci Callandrillo: but that's it's challenging. Cause. Oftentimes, if the expectation is, you will do this, there's not a lot of space, for how are we going to execute on this? And that's where I think we've seen a lot of the disruption is people leaders, especially those Middle management leaders who don't have the space to engage more responsively to the expectation instead of
00:21:00.580 --> 00:21:06.619 Traci Callandrillo: it's your job to do to do exactly what I'm telling you to do kind of mentality, which is the responsible piece.
00:21:07.486 --> 00:21:08.796 Mira Brancu: So I'm hearing
00:21:09.910 --> 00:21:17.319 Mira Brancu: that one of the potential challenges to simply leaning into this idea of responsive leadership
00:21:17.500 --> 00:21:18.560 Mira Brancu: is
00:21:18.600 --> 00:21:19.395 Mira Brancu: that,
00:21:20.540 --> 00:21:27.130 Mira Brancu: not everybody is afforded the opportunity to do so. Sometimes you're just told to do things as
00:21:27.500 --> 00:21:45.586 Mira Brancu: is, and most of us question whether things make sense and what they, we wanna know why and when we're not given that opportunity, it's very challenging if, especially if we might have like really great innovative ideas for how. And so
00:21:46.910 --> 00:21:51.670 Mira Brancu: let's talk about responsive leadership for a while. Who who has the
00:21:52.419 --> 00:21:53.859 Mira Brancu: can anybody do it?
00:21:54.110 --> 00:21:55.780 Mira Brancu: Can some people not
00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:00.619 Mira Brancu: just not be afforded the opportunity to do it.
00:22:01.230 --> 00:22:03.220 Mira Brancu: what? What needs to be in place?
00:22:04.010 --> 00:22:10.239 Mira Brancu: Basically in order for us all to just lean in to responsive leadership.
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:14.080 Traci Callandrillo: Yeah, well, I think that everybody can build this mindset.
00:22:14.650 --> 00:22:19.020 Traci Callandrillo: And that mindset starts from a place of what's my role.
00:22:19.170 --> 00:22:31.310 Traci Callandrillo: So you know, a big piece of the skill here is having clarity clarity of your role clarity of the expectations and then the ability to clearly communicate and
00:22:31.951 --> 00:22:43.699 Traci Callandrillo: I'm gonna use example of the person who answers the phone at the University counseling center where I worked. That person needed to be able to have some clarity over what they needed to do. Those were their responsibilities.
00:22:44.120 --> 00:22:46.589 Traci Callandrillo: Then they also
00:22:46.900 --> 00:23:15.910 Traci Callandrillo: responded best to a supervisor who really believed that they were good at what they were doing, that they could take the nuances of what was happening. And you know, if you've ever been a person who's the answer of a phone, you get all manner of things, and you're never gonna get a full list of instructions about what to do. And so that person building the ability to PE be responsive instead of responsible for every nuanced piece helped them be better at their job.
00:23:16.327 --> 00:23:20.740 Traci Callandrillo: I'm gonna borrow a phrase from my Gen. Z. Children, which is.
00:23:20.840 --> 00:23:22.100 Traci Callandrillo: let them cook.
00:23:22.290 --> 00:23:26.169 Traci Callandrillo: So when leaders facilitate for their team.
00:23:26.370 --> 00:23:33.489 Traci Callandrillo: This is what I need you to do, and these are some of the things we all agree on that need to be done. They're your responsibilities.
00:23:33.530 --> 00:23:40.240 Traci Callandrillo: And then I want you to talk to me. How's it going? Where can we be creative? What do you like best about that?
00:23:40.875 --> 00:23:47.060 Traci Callandrillo: And I think that also sets up leaders for when disruptions happen
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:58.150 Traci Callandrillo: that there's more agility in the team to come together collectively to solve those problems. Because when the team believes I just do what I'm told.
00:23:58.360 --> 00:24:00.539 Traci Callandrillo: And then something happens where
00:24:00.560 --> 00:24:07.820 Traci Callandrillo: no one has an actual answer of how to do that thing. It's going to be harder for them to shift into a mindset of. Yeah, what do I think about this?
00:24:07.840 --> 00:24:23.380 Traci Callandrillo: What would it mean for us to be responsive to this. So that ability to empower people at all levels, is it, I think, an essential essential core muscle of responsive leadership? And then, again, that clarity piece is really important, too.
00:24:23.380 --> 00:24:27.890 Mira Brancu: Yeah, it. It sounds a lot like giving people autonomy
00:24:28.100 --> 00:24:29.973 Mira Brancu: to just
00:24:31.180 --> 00:24:39.369 Mira Brancu: be able to resolve a situation in the way that makes sense to them based on their skills abilities. The what they're seeing in front of them
00:24:39.620 --> 00:24:40.180 Mira Brancu: is that right?
00:24:40.180 --> 00:24:43.939 Traci Callandrillo: Yeah, I think so. And I would add to that. So in a lot of
00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:45.839 Traci Callandrillo: larger systems.
00:24:46.550 --> 00:24:57.829 Traci Callandrillo: when people don't get autonomy often, it's because there's somebody else outside. Say, well, I don't know if they're going to do it the way I want them to do it. And so I think for the middle manager
00:24:58.310 --> 00:25:06.309 Traci Callandrillo: having space to really think about. Can I be clear about the expectations of the frame? For where that autonomy lives.
00:25:07.010 --> 00:25:14.650 Traci Callandrillo: and actually think most people are pretty good at figuring that out when they have a leadership that understands like, I know, you know what the the like
00:25:15.020 --> 00:25:29.560 Traci Callandrillo: bottom lines are. This is what we need to get done. Go and do it. And then let's talk about how it's going and where you really feel like you could get better at what you're doing, because that grows there like you said their their leadership and their ability to have autonomy and do their their work better.
00:25:29.850 --> 00:25:51.550 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah. So let's get a little practical application. Here, let's say, we have. We have a lot of listeners who are wondering, maybe, how to lean into either responsive leadership for themselves, but also like, How how do you empower others to lean into it? Right? So what are what are the guiding principles?
00:25:51.600 --> 00:25:55.970 Mira Brancu: And tell? Tell us, yeah, let's start there with guiding principles.
00:25:55.970 --> 00:26:05.800 Traci Callandrillo: Okay. So I think I've gone over these a little bit. But I would say just to reiterate them again, navigating economies, really understanding that that is a big part of leadership
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:06.890 Traci Callandrillo: is
00:26:07.350 --> 00:26:17.269 Traci Callandrillo: understanding the the the field in which you play, and where are the ways in which you might need to be prepared to pivot or address a dichotomy as it comes up.
00:26:17.850 --> 00:26:23.709 Traci Callandrillo: Empowerment is another core piece, both yourself, the other person and your team.
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:29.389 Traci Callandrillo: So someone's coming to you and saying, I need your team to take on some new responsibilities.
00:26:30.330 --> 00:26:40.739 Traci Callandrillo: What skills are you gonna use? So that it's not like, Hey, everybody. I know we were doing this over here. But now we're gonna stop that just because this person asked us to do it, because that's so disruptive, so
00:26:40.890 --> 00:26:50.719 Traci Callandrillo: empowerment. And then I guess the 3rd piece again, I use that phrase, let people cook, but it's really about encouraging everyone to take ownership
00:26:51.040 --> 00:26:53.200 Traci Callandrillo: for their own skills at work.
00:26:57.830 --> 00:26:59.060 Mira Brancu: That's great
00:26:59.080 --> 00:27:02.180 Mira Brancu: navigating dichotomies, folks empowerment
00:27:02.550 --> 00:27:03.919 Mira Brancu: and letting people cook
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:05.170 Mira Brancu: 3 principles.
00:27:05.330 --> 00:27:11.060 Mira Brancu: Now you have 7 values and 7 essential skills.
00:27:11.746 --> 00:27:16.980 Mira Brancu: What are those? How are they different from principals and skills?
00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:20.089 Traci Callandrillo: Okay. So that's also a lot. I know I'm I'm
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:24.629 Traci Callandrillo: taking them, really adding a a lot of things to people's plate when they think about this. But.
00:27:24.630 --> 00:27:27.939 Mira Brancu: We're doing a crash course here on responsive leadership.
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:40.849 Traci Callandrillo: I think are probably gonna make, I hope, makes sense, because to me they're really an intuitive match to this underlying idea of being responsive rather than responsible. But just to spell them out. Because I really gave some thought to like.
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:46.110 Traci Callandrillo: why? Why do we need to have core values because it helps guide us when we get in challenging situations.
00:27:46.110 --> 00:27:46.690 Mira Brancu: Reasons.
00:27:46.690 --> 00:27:48.429 Traci Callandrillo: So integrity.
00:27:48.610 --> 00:27:55.429 Traci Callandrillo: because you really have to have integrity in yourself in order to be able to. Everything else has to flow from that
00:27:56.016 --> 00:28:03.770 Traci Callandrillo: courage. So responsive leadership requires a fair amount of courage to step into and engage
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:13.343 Traci Callandrillo: whether that's someone where you might find yourself in a differing opinion. Or with yourself or with your team. But courage is a big piece of that
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:15.420 Traci Callandrillo: adaptability.
00:28:16.060 --> 00:28:23.680 Traci Callandrillo: So adaptive leadership, I think, was a big area. We can come back to that later. But a big area of of influence for me
00:28:23.800 --> 00:28:32.179 Traci Callandrillo: empathy. So we're gonna talk about this later. But a core question to ask anytime. Someone's bringing something up to you where you're frustrated. They're asking is.
00:28:32.590 --> 00:28:36.310 Traci Callandrillo: take a beat and then say, I wonder why they're asking me this?
00:28:37.220 --> 00:28:38.010 Traci Callandrillo: Okay.
00:28:38.612 --> 00:28:55.580 Traci Callandrillo: to go to the last 3 pretty quickly. Resilience. And this comes from just the like inherent nature of when we are leaders, and we're working in ways where we get disrupted, we need to have our own. And we need to help our teams build resilience to that disruption so that we don't get derailed
00:28:55.730 --> 00:29:09.729 Traci Callandrillo: think innovation is a core value. Because again, when you're navigating that disruption, and you want your team to be engaged with you, they that innovation and and really valuing that, what? What are we not that about that we could try.
00:29:09.940 --> 00:29:16.110 Traci Callandrillo: And then the last. In this I see this going really along with integrity and courage is humility.
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:18.090 Traci Callandrillo: We're all just people.
00:29:19.430 --> 00:29:29.799 Traci Callandrillo: And reminding ourselves of that, giving ourselves grace and that humility, but also giving everybody else grace, especially that person that's asking us for something that
00:29:29.850 --> 00:29:32.259 Traci Callandrillo: we're frustrated with, or reactive to.
00:29:32.650 --> 00:29:35.889 Mira Brancu: Yeah, these are great. I see
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:41.460 Mira Brancu: some of these. As like the requirements for change.
00:29:41.700 --> 00:29:41.940 Traci Callandrillo: Right.
00:29:42.606 --> 00:29:45.269 Mira Brancu: The adaptability, innovation, humility.
00:29:46.097 --> 00:29:49.880 Mira Brancu: are required for change and continuous improvement, and some of them
00:29:49.940 --> 00:29:50.740 Mira Brancu: for
00:29:52.167 --> 00:29:55.649 Mira Brancu: navigating the current like resilience and empathy.
00:29:55.660 --> 00:29:59.319 Mira Brancu: and some of them like characteristics
00:29:59.340 --> 00:30:11.460 Mira Brancu: for how to do it in you know, an honest but brave way, right? The integrity and courage please. Okay, we're entering in another ad break.
00:30:11.790 --> 00:30:21.259 Mira Brancu: And after that ad break, we will be right back with Tracy to learn some real practical skills necessary
00:30:21.780 --> 00:30:25.579 Mira Brancu: to apply responsive leadership to your own situation.
00:30:25.700 --> 00:30:27.900 Mira Brancu: So we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:32:30.250 --> 00:32:40.689 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mayor Broncu and our guest today, Dr. Tracy Countrilo, who has developed responsive leadership as a way to navigate today's complexities
00:32:40.830 --> 00:32:43.519 Mira Brancu: and all of the sort of
00:32:44.190 --> 00:32:50.739 Mira Brancu: dichotomies that we face when we have multiple competing demands as leaders.
00:32:52.120 --> 00:32:55.579 Mira Brancu: let's talk through how to apply
00:32:55.890 --> 00:32:59.550 Mira Brancu: this. The the kind of skills necessary
00:33:01.730 --> 00:33:04.889 Mira Brancu: for responsive leadership, for, like a real example.
00:33:05.170 --> 00:33:05.840 Traci Callandrillo: Okay.
00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:17.863 Mira Brancu: Now I'm gonna I'm gonna point out one example, and I always pull from like the the clients I've had in the past or Leadership Academy cohorts. These are. This is an aggregate. Okay, it's not necessarily one person in particular, but
00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:19.359 Mira Brancu: a lot of
00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:20.810 Mira Brancu: what comes up
00:33:21.510 --> 00:33:24.260 Mira Brancu: for many high achieving
00:33:24.790 --> 00:33:25.860 Mira Brancu: women
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:27.859 Mira Brancu: who are innovative
00:33:28.320 --> 00:33:31.589 Mira Brancu: and really want to see change in their organization
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:37.260 Mira Brancu: is they hear a lot and track a lot of problems.
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:42.250 Mira Brancu: and they start feeling a certain level of responsibility to speak up about them.
00:33:42.310 --> 00:33:44.170 Mira Brancu: and they
00:33:44.516 --> 00:33:47.779 Mira Brancu: feel a lot of responsibility to take on a lot.
00:33:48.610 --> 00:33:51.639 Mira Brancu: And this can lead to burnout.
00:33:51.940 --> 00:33:59.599 Mira Brancu: It can also lead to throwing out a lot of things and feeling completely invalidated, not heard, not supported.
00:33:59.939 --> 00:34:03.239 Mira Brancu: Because they have these ideas. But it's not really resonating
00:34:03.290 --> 00:34:04.620 Mira Brancu: in one way or another.
00:34:05.040 --> 00:34:05.790 Mira Brancu: And
00:34:06.740 --> 00:34:08.219 Mira Brancu: I'm sort of curious
00:34:09.050 --> 00:34:09.889 Mira Brancu: with
00:34:11.090 --> 00:34:13.649 Mira Brancu: with these kind of folks who want
00:34:14.210 --> 00:34:18.690 Mira Brancu: to see change and positive change want to like, really contribute?
00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:23.669 Mira Brancu: How do we keep them engaged in a way that feels
00:34:23.790 --> 00:34:24.890 Mira Brancu: like. They
00:34:24.980 --> 00:34:26.650 Mira Brancu: can maintain
00:34:27.040 --> 00:34:29.980 Mira Brancu: their level of energy in
00:34:30.488 --> 00:34:32.759 Mira Brancu: trying to create change, but also
00:34:33.261 --> 00:34:36.159 Mira Brancu: in a way that is managing all of the sort of like
00:34:36.389 --> 00:34:39.659 Mira Brancu: competing dichotomies that we started talking about.
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:40.729 Traci Callandrillo: Right.
00:34:40.730 --> 00:34:42.680 Mira Brancu: What would they do? What are the skills.
00:34:43.159 --> 00:35:02.889 Traci Callandrillo: So trying to imagine your your our women leader and I I as you were describing that I was thinking about someone who was brought up into her role, you know, from within an an organization, and partly because she was such a high performer in that role.
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:04.219 Traci Callandrillo: And
00:35:04.229 --> 00:35:10.029 Traci Callandrillo: as she's now in this new layer of not only authority but influence.
00:35:10.279 --> 00:35:13.459 Traci Callandrillo: you know. Here she is with her ideas.
00:35:13.979 --> 00:35:27.489 Traci Callandrillo: and she's kind of like knocking on the knocking on the door, and no one's really opening it. So I'm also gonna attempt to try to weave in the skills as we're talking about. But we can maybe come back to some of them. But let's start with
00:35:27.759 --> 00:35:29.269 Traci Callandrillo: strategic thinking.
00:35:29.759 --> 00:35:46.781 Traci Callandrillo: So strategic thinking is a really important skill, I think, for all all models of leadership. But why it's so important for responsive leadership is understanding the larger landscape. For why certain initiatives or or projects or or
00:35:47.449 --> 00:35:50.179 Traci Callandrillo: approaches are being prioritized.
00:35:50.369 --> 00:35:54.449 Traci Callandrillo: And so for this particular woman, it might be that in that 1st
00:35:54.869 --> 00:35:56.799 Traci Callandrillo: 6 months of her role
00:35:56.879 --> 00:36:10.559 Traci Callandrillo: she isn't getting much response, but she's really listening to? What are we talking about? And why are we talking about it? And what are the things that the other people at this new leadership table are prioritizing. Do they need data?
00:36:11.423 --> 00:36:21.119 Traci Callandrillo: Is there? Is she noticing that there's someone in particular who's sort of the decider of things? And and that person there might be some potential for influence there. So
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:24.669 Traci Callandrillo: that's a skill that I think is a really central one for this model.
00:36:26.379 --> 00:36:28.559 Traci Callandrillo: another. Really, I think
00:36:28.609 --> 00:36:33.239 Traci Callandrillo: a skill that I've outlined as part of this model was capacity for frankness
00:36:33.769 --> 00:36:40.869 Traci Callandrillo: that we don't usually talk about frankness we often talk about, you know. Are you authentic. I think that's a little bit of a
00:36:41.229 --> 00:36:42.949 Traci Callandrillo: confusing, because
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:45.239 Traci Callandrillo: I can be authentic and not frank.
00:36:46.179 --> 00:36:55.019 Traci Callandrillo: But I can be in a I can be in a situation. Let's take this same hypothetical woman the 1st time that she's at a cabinet level meeting that she's a part of.
00:36:55.489 --> 00:36:57.759 Traci Callandrillo: She's not gonna probably
00:36:58.069 --> 00:37:02.789 Traci Callandrillo: see a space where it makes sense for her to jump in and be really frank about
00:37:02.959 --> 00:37:18.909 Traci Callandrillo: this idea she has, and why she thinks it would be better, but she might introduce things over time, or she might find that there are people who they said something. It sparked a way for her to think about how she might work with them. And then, as she's moving more into
00:37:19.349 --> 00:37:28.659 Traci Callandrillo: people seeing her in that role as the authority in that role, she might have much more space for that frankness, but she's got to have that skill. In the 1st place.
00:37:30.380 --> 00:37:46.130 Traci Callandrillo: And that another big skill for responsive leadership is all of the whole skill set that is emotional intelligence. It's understanding. How. How are other people doing? What's the landscape I'm walking into? But then, also, what's going on inside of me?
00:37:46.560 --> 00:37:55.280 Traci Callandrillo: Because another big piece of responsive leadership is managing your own discomfort. This goes to that courage piece when we were talking about core values.
00:37:55.510 --> 00:37:56.810 Traci Callandrillo: This is hard.
00:37:57.180 --> 00:38:04.160 Traci Callandrillo: It is particularly hard. Another big skill set in responsive leadership is effective use of. No.
00:38:05.300 --> 00:38:19.109 Traci Callandrillo: we don't talk to our teams very much about saying no. And so I'm not sure in this example that I don't know that there would be a place where she's saying No, unless it's hey. We just want you to keep doing what the guy before you was doing. So
00:38:19.650 --> 00:38:21.909 Traci Callandrillo: perversion of no might sound like
00:38:22.350 --> 00:38:26.189 Traci Callandrillo: I would. I would really like to know a little bit more about
00:38:26.710 --> 00:38:32.280 Traci Callandrillo: what those, what those priorities were, and I'd like for you to listen to some ideas that I have.
00:38:32.720 --> 00:38:34.989 Traci Callandrillo: but no can also sound like
00:38:35.602 --> 00:38:36.959 Traci Callandrillo: not right. Now.
00:38:37.060 --> 00:38:41.309 Traci Callandrillo: if you have, you know, if you have a space to say that it can sound like not me.
00:38:42.390 --> 00:38:51.120 Traci Callandrillo: I think that's particularly important when we're doing that piece where we're we're we're supporting our teams to be, you know, to have their own place of authority and autonomy.
00:38:51.210 --> 00:39:08.099 Traci Callandrillo: They they know if they especially if they know, like, you know, just a really simple example with the person answering the phone again if you were calling the for the Admissions office, and you called the counseling center. It does not help for them counseling Center to try to give you the Admissions office information. So that's
00:39:08.120 --> 00:39:14.009 Traci Callandrillo: that's a no. Now you can be non-responsive by saying that's not us, and hang up on them.
00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:21.339 Traci Callandrillo: or you can be responsive and say, thanks so much for your call. Let me get you to let me connect you to the Admissions office.
00:39:21.700 --> 00:39:32.090 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And before you go on to like the the next few I'll I'll offer another very recent example of this effective use of no.
00:39:32.330 --> 00:39:32.620 Traci Callandrillo: Okay.
00:39:33.642 --> 00:39:34.789 Mira Brancu: And that is.
00:39:35.770 --> 00:39:39.419 Mira Brancu: you know, we we talk a lot about psychological safety.
00:39:40.078 --> 00:39:51.919 Mira Brancu: You know, when I work with people, and how psychological safety is made up of of a lot of things. But a couple of the most important are, do I feel safe speaking up.
00:39:53.230 --> 00:39:55.540 Mira Brancu: And do I think it's worthwhile to speak up.
00:39:56.580 --> 00:40:00.409 Mira Brancu: Many of us feel safe speaking up. That's the frank piece that you mentioned.
00:40:01.650 --> 00:40:12.670 Mira Brancu: but over time we might not feel like it's worthwhile to speak up because we've said it over and over we've got. We've given our feedback and we've gotten no feedback loop, no no response
00:40:13.010 --> 00:40:13.840 Mira Brancu: to it.
00:40:14.070 --> 00:40:16.899 Mira Brancu: This is where responsive leadership
00:40:16.910 --> 00:40:19.010 Mira Brancu: can come in handy
00:40:19.290 --> 00:40:21.490 Mira Brancu: with the use of the no.
00:40:22.340 --> 00:40:23.490 Mira Brancu: People don't
00:40:25.600 --> 00:40:29.059 Mira Brancu: give you feedback as as a staff member employee.
00:40:29.770 --> 00:40:38.250 Mira Brancu: They're not just like Shane saying how they feel and asking you to do something different and giving you feedback because they expect you to do every single thing that they ask you
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:39.340 Mira Brancu: to do
00:40:39.940 --> 00:40:45.929 Mira Brancu: right? They just want you to receive it, and do something with
00:40:46.500 --> 00:40:47.809 Mira Brancu: their concern.
00:40:48.510 --> 00:40:52.359 Mira Brancu: And it's okay to go back and say.
00:40:52.780 --> 00:41:01.960 Mira Brancu: Thank you so much for the feedback and the concern we've thought it through, or I've thought it through, and we've decided not to do that. But here's why.
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:02.460 Traci Callandrillo: Yeah.
00:41:02.460 --> 00:41:10.629 Mira Brancu: That's all that people need to feel psychologically safe to feel like. It was worth speaking up, in the 1st place, that the leader was responsive
00:41:11.210 --> 00:41:12.770 Mira Brancu: to the request.
00:41:13.070 --> 00:41:17.210 Mira Brancu: You don't have to do every single thing that people ask, but you should
00:41:17.450 --> 00:41:25.810 Mira Brancu: come back around with some kind of response that you've like thought about it, and been careful and intentional about your decision.
00:41:26.370 --> 00:41:45.130 Traci Callandrillo: Yeah. Oh, I love that. I really agree with that. I I think it's creating that space for people to feel heard. And it's and it's bidirectional, you know. I think it's so great when a leader, let's say you're taking on a big new initiative, and you need your team to be involved and contribute their ideas.
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:48.819 Traci Callandrillo: If you have things that you know are parameters that are not.
00:41:49.190 --> 00:41:53.490 Traci Callandrillo: These things are non-negotiable. We're gonna do them like, you know we're we're still gonna answer our phone
00:41:53.990 --> 00:42:05.770 Traci Callandrillo: or something along those lines. But then you hear everything else, you can really be much more engaged together, and that that leads to, I think, increased trust in the team.
00:42:06.080 --> 00:42:14.550 Mira Brancu: Yeah, no, is not demoralizing. It's the lack of responding that is demoralizing to people. Okay.
00:42:14.550 --> 00:42:15.640 Traci Callandrillo: Yes. Okay, so go.
00:42:15.640 --> 00:42:17.081 Mira Brancu: Go ahead with your skills.
00:42:19.571 --> 00:42:21.329 Traci Callandrillo: Okay, well, this is really
00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:31.520 Traci Callandrillo: a couple more. Well, really, one more that, I think, is, goes along with what we were just talking about, and that is how essential it is to notice positive outcomes.
00:42:32.990 --> 00:42:39.269 Traci Callandrillo: And this kind of goes along with what you're saying about. We can get so caught up in saying no, or
00:42:39.560 --> 00:42:41.200 Traci Callandrillo: shutting things down.
00:42:41.570 --> 00:42:51.909 Traci Callandrillo: that we don't think about how important it is to know just a positive outcome, especially when you're doing some things that are kind of sensitive, either. You're
00:42:52.200 --> 00:42:57.849 Traci Callandrillo: you're like asking your team to trust you to go somewhere that maybe they weren't so sure about.
00:42:58.110 --> 00:43:05.480 Traci Callandrillo: Wow, you know, to stop and really reinforce and be grateful, and, you know, share the
00:43:05.810 --> 00:43:07.300 Traci Callandrillo: accomplishment.
00:43:07.460 --> 00:43:13.789 Traci Callandrillo: The pandemic, I think, really showed the ways that leaders who were able to like slow down and
00:43:13.940 --> 00:43:25.770 Traci Callandrillo: thank their team and notice the positive outcomes. I think that's 1 of those those pieces. When we look at a little bit of that research about like the impact of a great manager. A great manager notices positive outcomes.
00:43:25.900 --> 00:43:28.590 Traci Callandrillo: And they're not. They're not made up either, you know.
00:43:28.710 --> 00:43:33.939 Traci Callandrillo: You find ways to talk about things that are important, and and again goes to those core
00:43:33.970 --> 00:43:35.709 Traci Callandrillo: values and core missions.
00:43:36.210 --> 00:43:37.056 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely.
00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:40.522 Traci Callandrillo: 7 in there we can. We can recap them if you want me to.
00:43:40.740 --> 00:43:52.869 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I got it. A strategic thinking capacity for frankness, emotional intelligence, effective use of note and noticing positive outcomes. Did I get it.
00:43:52.870 --> 00:43:54.460 Traci Callandrillo: And managing your discomfort.
00:43:55.350 --> 00:44:00.828 Traci Callandrillo: I think that's important one in and of itself, just because it's hard.
00:44:01.220 --> 00:44:05.119 Mira Brancu: It is. Nobody likes being uncomfortable, but it's so important.
00:44:05.120 --> 00:44:05.650 Traci Callandrillo: Really.
00:44:05.650 --> 00:44:13.107 Mira Brancu: We none of us grow from like feeling super comfortable all the time. That's not where growth comes from.
00:44:14.040 --> 00:44:23.739 Traci Callandrillo: No. And yeah, I mean, most of us have whatever early life messages we got about things like conflict and discomfort, and
00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:28.970 Traci Callandrillo: making people mad or whatever. There's also a lot of strong cultural
00:44:29.220 --> 00:44:42.349 Traci Callandrillo: pressures for different people from different cultures around discomfort and managing it starts with noticing it and understanding it, and then you can have a lot more control over how you navigate that at work.
00:44:42.900 --> 00:44:49.519 Mira Brancu: Absolutely okay. We are reaching another ad break, and we'll be right back in just a moment with the hard skills.
00:46:53.800 --> 00:47:02.110 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Bronku and our guest today, Dr. Tracy Calandra of responsive leadership.
00:47:02.380 --> 00:47:03.070 Mira Brancu: So
00:47:03.880 --> 00:47:20.109 Mira Brancu: Tracy, we talked a lot about your framework, the values, the skills and what you might apply. It's a lot to start thinking about if you haven't been thinking about it. So what
00:47:20.570 --> 00:47:24.239 Mira Brancu: one specific piece of advice or one thing.
00:47:24.700 --> 00:47:33.620 Mira Brancu: can you offer our audience that they can do differently or new to move from responsible to responsive leadership. What what would that be?
00:47:33.620 --> 00:47:40.030 Traci Callandrillo: Okay, so, and you referenced this, and I think I referenced it a little bit, too. I would say.
00:47:40.430 --> 00:47:42.810 Traci Callandrillo: anyone can practice
00:47:42.890 --> 00:47:44.780 Traci Callandrillo: kind of a three-step approach.
00:47:45.020 --> 00:47:45.620 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:47.650 Traci Callandrillo: If you find yourself
00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:51.629 Traci Callandrillo: receiving a request that's challenging for you.
00:47:52.330 --> 00:47:55.500 Traci Callandrillo: I would want you to take a step back and ask yourself
00:47:56.440 --> 00:48:03.179 Traci Callandrillo: you're not going to probably say these things out loud in the comfort, conversation with the person. But ask yourself, why is this challenging to me.
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:05.580 Traci Callandrillo: and then
00:48:05.890 --> 00:48:10.290 Traci Callandrillo: practice that empathic flip to? Why are they asking?
00:48:12.260 --> 00:48:14.530 Traci Callandrillo: Okay? And then the 3rd part is.
00:48:14.560 --> 00:48:17.629 Traci Callandrillo: how can I be responsive to the Y
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:20.809 Traci Callandrillo: without taking responsibility for the what
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:23.590 Traci Callandrillo: now
00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:30.570 Traci Callandrillo: you may still find yourself stuck in that dilemma. But what you're building there is the mindset of.
00:48:30.910 --> 00:48:40.539 Traci Callandrillo: How can I be responsive to this rather than taking responsibility for it, particularly if it's if there's something about it where you need to understand why you're challenged by it.
00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:42.760 Mira Brancu: Oh, I love this framework.
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:44.979 Mira Brancu: It sounds
00:48:46.597 --> 00:48:48.882 Mira Brancu: easy, because there's 3 steps.
00:48:49.340 --> 00:48:52.030 Traci Callandrillo: I mean. Well, I'll let you know to pull asleep.
00:48:52.363 --> 00:48:56.030 Mira Brancu: But, oh, my God! There's so much in those 3 steps.
00:48:56.030 --> 00:48:56.430 Traci Callandrillo: Yeah.
00:48:56.430 --> 00:49:02.750 Mira Brancu: Let me just like, slow it down for just a second for people. Okay, take a step back. Why is this challenging?
00:49:02.980 --> 00:49:07.409 Mira Brancu: Okay, we all have a response to things.
00:49:08.110 --> 00:49:09.540 Mira Brancu: Some of us find
00:49:09.910 --> 00:49:11.740 Mira Brancu: a certain request exciting.
00:49:12.520 --> 00:49:15.369 Mira Brancu: And some of us will find the same exact request.
00:49:16.575 --> 00:49:17.330 Mira Brancu: Quite
00:49:17.820 --> 00:49:18.760 Mira Brancu: troubling.
00:49:19.730 --> 00:49:20.640 Mira Brancu: And
00:49:22.570 --> 00:49:29.259 Mira Brancu: The most important thing is that you take a step back and understand what that response is like. Why did you have that reaction?
00:49:29.660 --> 00:49:30.510 Mira Brancu: Right?
00:49:31.430 --> 00:49:32.879 Mira Brancu: and it could be like
00:49:33.630 --> 00:49:41.639 Mira Brancu: something happened in your past. And this reminds me of it going all wrong. And you don't want it happen again.
00:49:42.160 --> 00:49:47.119 Mira Brancu: That's okay. But it's important for you to understand that. So I love that. The second.
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:48.940 Mira Brancu: why are they asking?
00:49:49.600 --> 00:50:00.150 Mira Brancu: By the way, this is not just about empathy. Yes, empathy is important. It's also perspective. Taking. You have your view. You have your lens. We all have our biases, we all have
00:50:00.240 --> 00:50:02.169 Mira Brancu: are assumptions that we make.
00:50:03.040 --> 00:50:13.420 Mira Brancu: and the number. One reason why we have conflict in the workplace is that we refuse to acknowledge that that our lens is just our lens, and that there might be a different way to think about it.
00:50:13.680 --> 00:50:17.099 Mira Brancu: or there might be a different reason why somebody's thinking one way or another.
00:50:17.270 --> 00:50:18.496 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So
00:50:19.160 --> 00:50:21.210 Mira Brancu: if it's hard for you to
00:50:21.370 --> 00:50:33.319 Mira Brancu: possibly imagine a different perspective like it may makes no sense whatsoever. And you're just like so angry and annoying and frustrated about it. This is the time to talk to somebody else outside of you and get some reactions. Okay.
00:50:34.010 --> 00:50:36.650 Mira Brancu: and then the last one, how
00:50:37.580 --> 00:50:40.650 Mira Brancu: to respond to the Y
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:45.279 Mira Brancu: without being responsible to the what? Oh, my gosh.
00:50:45.640 --> 00:50:47.620 Mira Brancu: I love that! And it's so deep.
00:50:47.750 --> 00:50:50.340 Mira Brancu: Can you break that down even more? Tracy.
00:50:51.250 --> 00:50:52.040 Traci Callandrillo: Well.
00:50:52.630 --> 00:51:00.209 Traci Callandrillo: and this is where I think that I want to reiterate your how important it is whether it's a trusted colleague at work, a coach.
00:51:00.340 --> 00:51:11.530 Traci Callandrillo: Someone that you can talk these things out will give you a lot, cause you're gonna get a lot of information from those 2 1st 2 pieces. But even if you ended up doing the thing.
00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:26.110 Traci Callandrillo: it's still very helpful to separate out. How can I be responsive to the why? Why is that person asking me. I'm gonna go back to my example about the scared parent who wants me to tell them if their child's come to therapy in the counseling center
00:51:26.380 --> 00:51:28.279 Traci Callandrillo: still not going to tell them.
00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:31.700 Traci Callandrillo: But I'm going to do a lot of things
00:51:31.910 --> 00:51:33.949 Traci Callandrillo: to respond to that. Why.
00:51:34.070 --> 00:51:35.519 Traci Callandrillo: it might be
00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:46.590 Traci Callandrillo: letting them know how glad I am they called. It might be, I hear and think that you're probably really scared, and you wonder about whether or not your child's getting what they need.
00:51:46.600 --> 00:52:06.800 Traci Callandrillo: So so maybe gonna not be able to do the thing they're asking for. But I can approach it very differently. Sometimes you're still gonna do the thing, but you just have that additional insight, and I will say, for people who find themselves struggling with like, I'm being made to do things that I don't like. This gives you a lot more self control.
00:52:07.830 --> 00:52:13.910 Traci Callandrillo: You can learn a lot understanding and thinking about. Why is this person asking me this?
00:52:14.570 --> 00:52:17.299 Traci Callandrillo: And you can then make choices about that.
00:52:17.520 --> 00:52:26.600 Traci Callandrillo: Do I want to practice more listening to understand with them, so that I can, you know, get out of my own sort of stuck space, or
00:52:26.680 --> 00:52:41.179 Traci Callandrillo: understand them differently. I've rarely regretted listening to understand, especially if it's the person that's annoying me, just to be honest about it, even though I might still feel annoyed, I might have more information that helps me look at it differently.
00:52:41.180 --> 00:52:48.703 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And you know, let's let's take that parent situation for a second and walk through the 3. Okay,
00:52:50.220 --> 00:52:51.570 Mira Brancu: if a parent
00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:53.920 Mira Brancu: called me.
00:52:55.030 --> 00:52:56.340 Mira Brancu: And said.
00:52:56.360 --> 00:53:08.620 Mira Brancu: I need to know about my student, and they're yelling at me. I've I mean, as a school counselor. I had this constantly. So I understand this experience. My initial reaction that I had to understand about myself
00:53:09.290 --> 00:53:10.300 Mira Brancu: was.
00:53:10.530 --> 00:53:12.603 Mira Brancu: Oh, my God! I've done something wrong.
00:53:13.180 --> 00:53:14.480 Mira Brancu: and I have to fix it.
00:53:14.770 --> 00:53:25.759 Mira Brancu: That's my reaction. And that means I'm taking a lot of responsibility for stuff that really isn't about me, but that I need to understand that reaction and be able to work through that.
00:53:26.720 --> 00:53:30.100 Mira Brancu: I need to understand. Why are they asking? That's the empathy is
00:53:30.581 --> 00:53:39.640 Mira Brancu: of course they're terrified that something is happening that they don't know about with their child. This is still your child, right? This is their child having empathy for that.
00:53:40.020 --> 00:53:40.734 Mira Brancu: and
00:53:42.760 --> 00:53:48.739 Mira Brancu: If I'm not able to access. Why they're yelling at me, or why they're upset.
00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:54.249 Mira Brancu: The most important thing is to slow myself down to ask questions.
00:53:55.150 --> 00:53:59.580 Mira Brancu: Not to make any assumptions. Just ask, can you say more about what your concerns are?
00:53:59.860 --> 00:54:08.509 Mira Brancu: Can you say more about what is your greatest fear or worry, and to keep asking enough questions to get at.
00:54:09.300 --> 00:54:14.670 Mira Brancu: Could I imagine something that is in my control and their control that will help
00:54:14.910 --> 00:54:17.270 Mira Brancu: alleviate the situation? Can I
00:54:17.410 --> 00:54:25.209 Mira Brancu: steer them to a different direction? Can I coach them into how to talk with their own child about the situation? Right, all of those things.
00:54:25.290 --> 00:54:42.220 Mira Brancu: And by the way, for those of you who need a little bit more guidance just around like accessing the why, getting to yes, is one of my favorite books. It is a way to step out of positions and into understanding people's interests and connecting
00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:47.779 Mira Brancu: it. Technically, it's around negotiation. But you could use it for every single thing out there around getting to the Y.
00:54:48.280 --> 00:54:54.109 Mira Brancu: So thank you, Tracy, where can people find out more about you?
00:54:55.080 --> 00:55:18.030 Traci Callandrillo: Well, thank you for that. Opportunity to tell you that I am on Linkedin. I have a website which I believe is going to be linked to in the show notes, and I offer individual and team coaching. I wanna offer to your listeners. I have have put together a sort of 3 session. We'll call it like a fast track.
00:55:18.140 --> 00:55:25.729 Traci Callandrillo: If you really want to do some intensive work around responsive leadership that I'm going to offer at a special price to your, to your listeners. If they reach out to me.
00:55:25.730 --> 00:55:27.000 Mira Brancu: Awesome.
00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:56.139 Traci Callandrillo: You mentioned earlier. I am in the process of writing a book, and one of the things that I am really looking for people who are either. They say I actually think I've got some of these skills I would love for them to reach out to me. I'm going to be doing some interviews with people who are responsive leaders, or people who are willing to talk about like, I would love to get better at this, and then we continue that journey together, talking about it so cause, I think that there's a lot to this model that would lend itself to a really impactful book.
00:55:56.550 --> 00:55:59.430 Mira Brancu: That is amazing. Okay, folks. So if you're listening.
00:55:59.580 --> 00:56:14.000 Mira Brancu: she's offering 2 opportunities, one to interview with her, to offer your insights to help her with her book, as she's thinking through all of these things. And 2 is a 3 session package to
00:56:14.020 --> 00:56:24.989 Mira Brancu: fast track your responsive leadership experience. If you mention either mirror Branca or the hard skills. Okay? So you've gotta mention that. Okay, so
00:56:25.020 --> 00:56:34.620 Mira Brancu: what did you take away from today? And more importantly, what is one small change that you can implement this week, based on what you learned from Tracy?
00:56:34.780 --> 00:56:42.649 Mira Brancu: Share it with us on Linkedin, at Mira Broncou or Tracy calendar or calendar, low consulting group
00:56:43.750 --> 00:56:50.279 Mira Brancu: talk radio, Nyc as well, and we can cheer you on. We are both on Linkedin very actively. So reach us out there.
00:56:51.359 --> 00:56:52.229 Mira Brancu: but
00:56:52.530 --> 00:57:07.010 Mira Brancu: you can reach out anywhere. In addition, we're a live show. But we're also a podcast so follow us either on spotify or ideally apple, podcast leave a review, share with others so that it could gain visibility, reach an impact.
00:57:07.380 --> 00:57:16.640 Mira Brancu: And the stuff we talk about on the show is also, part of our research based strategic leadership pathway which is within the telescope Leadership Academy which I just mentioned. Folks
00:57:16.770 --> 00:57:20.260 Mira Brancu: applications are opening on Friday, so take a look
00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:30.100 Mira Brancu: and see if you might be interested or come in. Come to our open house. Everything you'll find out about it is at go tower, scope.com and click on Leadership Academy.
00:57:30.210 --> 00:57:33.160 Mira Brancu: Thank you to Talkradio Dot, Nyc. For hosting.
00:57:33.220 --> 00:57:36.909 Mira Brancu: I'm Dr. Mira Branco, your host of the Hard Skill show.
00:57:36.950 --> 00:57:40.109 Mira Brancu: and thank you, Tracy, for joining us today.
00:57:40.130 --> 00:57:44.270 Mira Brancu: Have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from by all.
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