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EPISODE SUMMARY:
The audience will get a holistic perspective on the healthcare system from leadership potential, to bullying and incivility all the way to Dignity and explanations on how that applies to Doctors, Nurses, Patients and even Hospital Administration.
The audience will see the return of Phyllis Quinlan and Jennifer Griggs who are leaders in their respective health and wellness positions. Phyllis will provide her views on leadership in the healthcare workplace in addition to look at Bullying and Incivility as well as provide her views on how to foster leadership within the healthcare system. Jennifer will continue her discussion on Dignity which she did so eloquently with the Replacement Child Forum back in early 2023. She also has her new podcast: The Dignity Lab.
Phyllis Quinlan: Website: https://mfwconsultants.com/ LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phyllisquinlancoachspeaker/ Jennifer Griggs: Website: https://jennifergriggs.com/ LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifergriggsmdmph/
#leadership, #Dignity
Tune in for this healthy conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
Frank welcomes back his co-host Phyllis Quinlan. Together they will discuss some of the issues the health care has with leadership. Phyllis updates the listeners on what she has been doing since she’s last been on the show. Frank and Phyllis discuss the importance of having strong emotional intelligence because it can be a tool to help you advocate for yourself. Phyllis explains how there is leadership in everyone. Frank and Phyllis also discuss Phyllis’ book which focuses on Bullying and how it’s a form of abuse.
In this segment, Frank and Phyllis introduce their guest Jennifer Griggs. Phyllis also breaks down their different leadership roles in healthcare. She explains how communication and collaboration are important tools in healthcare. Jennifer Griggs enters the conversation and explains how forgiveness is a shift in our emotional experience. Phyllis mentions the state of healthcare during COVID-19 and how there was a sense of solidarity and everyone knew their role.
Coming back from the break, Phyllis and Jennifer discussed a webinar they attended and shared some of the topics that led to their collaboration. At the webinar Jennifer talked about leading with dignity and what that looks like in healthcare. Jennifer’s takeaway from the webinar is that dignity can be reclaimed. Frank shares his dilemmas as his cousin’s caretaker and how he had to learn how to diffuse a situation with a doctor and still maintain his end goal. Frank, Phyllis, and Jennifer discuss some ways healthcare can become patient-centered care.
Frank informs his audience that he was a guest on another TalkRadio.NYC show called the Hard Skills. There he spoke about being a caretaker and advocate for his father and cousin. Jennifer shares the details about her podcast the Dignity Lab. Phyllis shares some of the talking events that he attended and has coming up. Towards the end of the segment, Frank asks Phyllis and Jennifer if a patient can claim their dignity and lead to a resilient mentality.
00:00:49.140 --> 00:01:08.769 Frank R. Harrison: Hey, everybody, and welcome to a new episode of Frank about health. The date is June 13, th 2024. I am so happy to reintroduce my co-host, Phyllis Quinlan. To this episode. We will also be having an appearance with Dr. Jennifer Griggs, who is on her way, but will be here in about 15 min.
00:01:08.770 --> 00:01:20.800 Frank R. Harrison: And we're gonna have an interesting conversation, that kind of dovetails from where I was with Dr. Mirabu this past Tuesday on the hard skills where we talked about leadership in the hospital system.
00:01:20.850 --> 00:01:39.429 Frank R. Harrison: whether it's your doctor, your nurse, or even yourself, the patient. We all play a leadership role in our healthcare. We just have to learn to have that mindset, especially for those that are advocates or caregivers, but even more so yourself. The patient. So I thought this was a perfect segue to have both
00:01:39.540 --> 00:02:02.410 Frank R. Harrison: Jennifer and Phyllis come back to Frank about health, so we can really talk about the leadership roles and activities that they are both involved in, whether it's from a research perspective, a podcast perspective. And if you remember, both Phyllis and Jennifer were very instrumental on a show that we did about a year ago on the replacement child Forum, a whole lesson on forgiveness and dignity.
00:02:02.420 --> 00:02:28.100 Frank R. Harrison: which they learned a lot from, as I did as Phyllis did. And just leadership itself is a big issue in the healthcare space today. So I think it's just important that I have my 2. I don't know. What should I call you freedom fighters or leadership warriors, but definitely strong advocates and very respected colleagues of mine from not just this show but the upcoming project that I announced.
00:02:28.100 --> 00:02:39.310 Frank R. Harrison: both on the hard skills and previously on an episode of frank about health. So let me do the formality of a disclaimer, and then, of course, reintroduce Phyllis, and we will be on our way.
00:02:39.980 --> 00:03:02.649 Frank R. Harrison: The information here is food for thought. They are not the views of Talkradio, Nyc. They are not the views of the dignity lab. They are not the views of Mfw. Consulting. They are not the views of Frank about health. They are our views from the conversation that we will engage in during the next hour, and as such we hope that we teach you something.
00:03:02.850 --> 00:03:08.159 Frank R. Harrison: If it is not for you that is fine, but we are not providing any forced
00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:29.520 Frank R. Harrison: recommendations of changes to be made to your current treatment. Protocol. Whether it's with your primary care. Physician, your neurologist, your psychologist, your social worker, your oncologist, your cardiologist. The list goes on. The point is, we want to be a support. We do not want to be a forced guide, and that being said.
00:03:30.070 --> 00:03:33.810 Frank R. Harrison: I'm doing justice by reintroducing Phyllis Quinlan.
00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:37.000 Frank R. Harrison: dear friend of mine, and I am so glad that you've come back
00:03:37.090 --> 00:03:41.170 Frank R. Harrison: to just talk about. What have you been doing since we were last together?
00:03:41.820 --> 00:03:52.580 Phyllis Quinlan: Well, thank you for having me back. It has been way too long, my friend, way too long. I have missed you. I have missed the program, and I have clearly missed your listeners. So what have I been doing?
00:03:54.100 --> 00:04:15.220 Phyllis Quinlan: really trying to crisscross the country and raise awareness about leadership imperatives for the 21st century. You know my niche or my target area is in the field of healthcare, but I I think the message that we have about the importance of good leadership. Now, the importance of a healthy work environment.
00:04:15.220 --> 00:04:29.660 Phyllis Quinlan: the importance of leading with dignity is a message for every venue, every CEO. Every executive director, every entrepreneur who owns their own company and is looking really to create
00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:36.820 Phyllis Quinlan: and and an environment an atmosphere where talent wants to stay and thrive.
00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:47.339 Frank R. Harrison: Right right. And I guess also, when we were last with Jennifer on the replacement, child Forum, one takeaway that I think you
00:04:47.530 --> 00:05:00.210 Frank R. Harrison: had. Was that you really wanted to understand the whole role in dignity, and how it helps with forgiveness because we were looking at a section, a community of individuals that were really going through life.
00:05:00.440 --> 00:05:05.820 Frank R. Harrison: Well, one could say, not forgiving themselves for the fact that they were a replacement child.
00:05:06.730 --> 00:05:12.380 Phyllis Quinlan: Or or somehow making it about making it something that they did.
00:05:12.580 --> 00:05:34.330 Phyllis Quinlan: and and you know, and then coming to terms with the fact that this was done to them, that they did not do it, and then finding a way back to having a a better and a more healthy relationship 1st with their parents, who clearly, you know, had much invested in their in developing that replacement child mentality or energy or persona.
00:05:34.330 --> 00:05:42.759 Phyllis Quinlan: and then, of course, as adults, letting go of that child that had been, you know, put in that situation, and then walking back into.
00:05:43.020 --> 00:05:50.819 Phyllis Quinlan: you know, living and breathing very accountable, thriving adults, which I think you know, we did a really good job in that segment about.
00:05:51.310 --> 00:05:52.800 Frank R. Harrison: Yes, absolutely
00:05:52.870 --> 00:05:56.250 Frank R. Harrison: well. This is, after all, brain awareness month.
00:05:56.260 --> 00:06:07.850 Frank R. Harrison: and, as my viewers know, I did start the month with an Alzheimer show, and you and I will be hint hint doing a show on on down syndrome next week.
00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:11.920 Frank R. Harrison: But in terms of this whole aspect of leadership
00:06:12.080 --> 00:06:16.229 Frank R. Harrison: one could say, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that
00:06:16.370 --> 00:06:20.240 Frank R. Harrison: you have to have a sense of mental awareness.
00:06:20.380 --> 00:06:26.149 Frank R. Harrison: whether it's your own defenses, your own education, your own mission
00:06:26.350 --> 00:06:35.279 Frank R. Harrison: in how you present yourselves when dealing with healthcare issues. I mean whether it's in the role you carry, doctor, nurse, ent worker, whatever
00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:43.160 Frank R. Harrison: or it's if you're a caregiver, correct? Would you like to show the difference in the mindset that each part may play.
00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:54.660 Phyllis Quinlan: Yeah, I let's speak about healthcare in in leadership and healthcare, because that's really where I feel the most comfortable in sharing with your audience at this point. You know the
00:06:55.520 --> 00:07:11.950 Phyllis Quinlan: long ago and far away. The equation for success was great academic preparation and good clinical competency and certification, national certifications in your skills, regardless of what profession you had respiratory therapist, physician, surgeon, nurse
00:07:12.838 --> 00:07:42.010 Phyllis Quinlan: and we thought that that equation, one, plus the other would lead to a successful career, or even a happy life. And I'm a big proponent of that. I was one of the nurses that really was, you know, pushing along and encouraging everybody to get a baccalaureate degree as the entry, the consistent basic entry level into nursing. And and we pretty much succeeded doing that? But at the end of the day the equation fell short, and what we have come to know.
00:07:42.050 --> 00:07:43.870 Phyllis Quinlan: and finally embrace
00:07:43.950 --> 00:07:54.119 Phyllis Quinlan: that the secret sauce, if you will. That missing piece in that equation was emotional intelligence. And if you don't have a strong sense of self
00:07:54.160 --> 00:08:08.799 Phyllis Quinlan: and a real strong sense of being self aware, not a sense of self from a narcissistic or ego perspective. But if you don't have a strong sense of self awareness and couple that with good strong skills and self management.
00:08:09.130 --> 00:08:11.819 Phyllis Quinlan: Those are the competencies for personal
00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:31.480 Phyllis Quinlan: emotional intelligence development. If you don't have those, then you cannot proceed to think that you can develop the social competencies and emotional intelligence which are social awareness and relationship management. Because the competencies of emotional intelligence are linear. You 1st work on yourself
00:08:31.670 --> 00:08:58.610 Phyllis Quinlan: before you can engage or work, or have the audacity to lead others. And you know, one of the key questions that I ask is someone who has been a director in clinical areas, education areas, administrative areas. When I am hiring someone who is a pros prospective candidate, a candidate for a leadership position. My one and only question is, help me understand why anyone should want to be led by you.
00:08:59.750 --> 00:09:00.340 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:09:00.340 --> 00:09:05.399 Phyllis Quinlan: And it's a very unsettling question, because most people are like, Wow! I didn't see that coming.
00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:12.599 Phyllis Quinlan: which is indeed why I work so hard on developing that question, because I want to see how they rock.
00:09:12.770 --> 00:09:40.399 Phyllis Quinlan: you know. And do they come back at me with, you know? Well, I went to this school. That school. Here's my clinical background, you know. I I led this project. I did this initiative, you know, and I have a certification here, there, and everywhere. That's not what I'm looking for. What I want somebody to do is tell me about their journey to developing their empathy and compassion. I want someone to tell me that, or at least convey to me in some way that they
00:09:40.550 --> 00:09:58.259 Phyllis Quinlan: understand how hard it is to be an adult in the 21st century, let alone a leader in the 21st century, let alone a leader in healthcare in the 21st century, in the face of something that I call persistent uncertainty, because it's hard to lead people when you yourself don't know where we're going.
00:09:59.230 --> 00:10:08.899 Frank R. Harrison: Absolutely, and I think that was part of. When we 1st met we were talking about the share of the care organization, and I perceived that the way that whole team structure was set up.
00:10:09.090 --> 00:10:15.879 Frank R. Harrison: those individuals within the family or within the network of team builders that are supporting the patient
00:10:16.020 --> 00:10:21.790 Frank R. Harrison: have to be assessed for their empathy and their self awareness, and everything that you've just outlined.
00:10:21.790 --> 00:10:43.730 Phyllis Quinlan: Well, it's it's not so much as an assessment, but they certainly are, are put in a group where everyone has a turn at leading, and therefore everyone has a turn to lean into where they're strong and where they need to do a little work, because that really is the, you know the journey of adulthood. Right? You're constantly confronted with what I call Boot Camp Moments, you know. You're kind of shown.
00:10:43.830 --> 00:10:50.920 Phyllis Quinlan: Gee, you're really strong here, but you really need to do a little work there? And do you have the heart and the tenacity
00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:58.219 Phyllis Quinlan: and the will to lean into moments where you, as a grown, accomplished, competent, adult, professional, adult.
00:10:58.732 --> 00:11:10.010 Phyllis Quinlan: Come, come face to face with the fact that you still need to do some more work, which is a very difficult reality for people to do. But you know, if you.
00:11:10.350 --> 00:11:11.370 Phyllis Quinlan: if you.
00:11:12.430 --> 00:11:18.660 Phyllis Quinlan: if you embrace the fact that transactional leadership is no longer of value to anyone
00:11:18.930 --> 00:11:26.719 Phyllis Quinlan: that there are moments where transaction is necessary. So let's use the operating room first, st you know, as an example.
00:11:26.790 --> 00:11:44.509 Phyllis Quinlan: when we're doing the job, we're doing the work. You're setting up the case. You're turning over the rooms. You're getting the patient in. Everything's getting set up, and everything that's very transactional. Step one step 2 step 3. We know exactly what we need to do, but when we start coming together as a team to do surgery on an individual.
00:11:44.560 --> 00:12:02.969 Phyllis Quinlan: the the the leader, the surgeon, if you will. Anesthesia, if you will, has to come together and bring that team together for a moment to understand that this is a human being on the table, and that what we do is important, that they have a family and hopes and dreams, and they're pinning them on us to give them the best we have on that particular day.
00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:12.979 Phyllis Quinlan: and there is more. Now, what we need to do is understand that we are all humans and engage in that humanity, and then collectively
00:12:13.180 --> 00:12:15.330 Phyllis Quinlan: go forward to try to accomplish
00:12:15.400 --> 00:12:16.999 Phyllis Quinlan: a common goal.
00:12:17.650 --> 00:12:29.570 Frank R. Harrison: Correct. Correct. Now, would you say that on the book that you were writing on bullying that has a lot of interplay in terms of those that are lacking the self awareness? Or
00:12:29.660 --> 00:12:31.079 Frank R. Harrison: how would you pivot that.
00:12:31.680 --> 00:12:55.200 Phyllis Quinlan: So you know the the book that I'm working on still, is the second edition of the original book, and it it talks a lot more about the the need for growing emotional intelligence as the antidote for disruptive behavior in the workplace, the 2 categories of disruptive behavior that I focus on are chronic inci and then
00:12:55.300 --> 00:13:14.970 Phyllis Quinlan: bullying. Okay, where bullying is actually abusive. This is a person who is looking to take advantage and be abusive towards another where someone who's chronically uncivil has low emotional intelligence. And is that person that you know? If they cold and sick and you still had to work short, you'd probably have a better day, because they just
00:13:14.970 --> 00:13:28.569 Phyllis Quinlan: are annoying and distracted, and suck all the energy out of the room, and they're more work than the job itself, and they're they just, you know. Take the wind out of your sales, but they're not harmful. They're exhausting, but they're not harmful.
00:13:29.090 --> 00:13:47.330 Phyllis Quinlan: whereas a bully is actually harmful. They really can have you know, great you know, effects on somebody's body, mind, and spirit. So when we talk about healthcare leadership in the 21st century, especially post covid, where we now have
00:13:47.830 --> 00:13:53.610 Phyllis Quinlan: workers who are far more empowered and
00:13:53.790 --> 00:13:58.400 Phyllis Quinlan: competent than they were pre covid by virtue of their covid experience. They.
00:13:58.400 --> 00:13:58.890 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:13:58.890 --> 00:14:04.849 Phyllis Quinlan: Through all of that, and have come out saying almost to a person, I'm stronger than I ever thought I could be.
00:14:04.880 --> 00:14:12.309 Phyllis Quinlan: though though that's the word of growth. That's not the word of post post post-traumatic stress. That's the words of growth, the language of growth.
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:26.799 Phyllis Quinlan: When your team is telling you that then you have to level up your leadership in order to be able to manage them, or you're going to bleed that talent and one of the ways to do that is to create a healthy work environment that is sustainable
00:14:26.850 --> 00:14:36.039 Phyllis Quinlan: because so many people now are really focusing on their own good self care. You can't ask them to do the homework, and then come into the classroom and have it be toxic.
00:14:36.060 --> 00:14:42.170 Phyllis Quinlan: You can't ask them to do that for themselves, and then not give them a place that mirrors that in order to work.
00:14:42.800 --> 00:14:45.529 Frank R. Harrison: Well, we're about to take our 1st break. But when we return
00:14:46.108 --> 00:14:56.999 Frank R. Harrison: I wanna go into that healthy workplace environment issue and break it down in terms of the leadership roles that exist that exist within that work. Environment. Okay?
00:14:57.090 --> 00:15:06.929 Frank R. Harrison: All right. And stay tuned right here on Talkradio, Nyc. And on our social media platforms, Youtube, Facebook, Linkedin and Twitch. We'll be back in a few.
00:17:18.730 --> 00:17:28.149 Frank R. Harrison: Hey, everybody! And welcome back, as you've just heard from Phyllis Quinlan in the 1st section. She was talking about a lot of the necessary qualities that one.
00:17:28.520 --> 00:17:29.929 Frank R. Harrison: we would like to say
00:17:30.040 --> 00:17:40.139 Frank R. Harrison: would have or could have, especially if they want to be successful in their environment, in the leadership role that they carry. And we are obviously talking about
00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:45.580 Frank R. Harrison: hospital systems. And yes, Logan, in answer to your question
00:17:45.590 --> 00:17:53.000 Frank R. Harrison: that all being said, we're going to now introduce Jennifer Griggs into the conversation, but we wanted to also follow up
00:17:53.080 --> 00:17:54.880 Frank R. Harrison: with Phyllis Quinlan
00:17:54.910 --> 00:18:09.229 Frank R. Harrison: to discuss the different leadership positions in the hospital workplace, and maybe where she can get into the the emotional intelligence issues or the bullying and incivility issues that she has noticed
00:18:09.230 --> 00:18:20.449 Frank R. Harrison: with specific doctors or nurses or patients themselves, because, as everyone remembers from my appearance on the hard skills I had mentioned that I'm advocating for the patient to take a leadership role
00:18:20.450 --> 00:18:41.259 Frank R. Harrison: in their own healthcare. But it is not recognized by the healthcare system as an actual leadership role, because they are not employees of that system. But yet the common thread exists. The issues of empathy, the issues of communication, the issues of mindfulness, the issues of trying to remain as civil as possible, and how a patient can resist
00:18:41.260 --> 00:18:46.719 Frank R. Harrison: bullying behavior, so that, all being said 1st of all, welcome, Jennifer, I'm glad you could join us.
00:18:47.070 --> 00:19:11.369 Frank R. Harrison: I'm I'm I'm glad everything worked out for you. Given. What you were telling me was some of your limitations, but you've joined us right under pivotal point where Phyllis, I'd like you to wrap up a little bit of what you said in segment, and one but then also to be a perfect segue to talk about the kind of work that both you and Jennifer have collaborated on recently where I know leadership is involved. But also, if you recall from our episode on the replacement child Forum.
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:18.779 Frank R. Harrison: her, her talk about dignity and forgiveness was very moving for both of us. So I want to see how that also plays a part
00:19:18.890 --> 00:19:23.280 Frank R. Harrison: in understanding the leadership positions in the workplace system.
00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:26.690 Phyllis Quinlan: So as I see it, the the
00:19:27.350 --> 00:19:36.950 Phyllis Quinlan: the leadership imperative of the 21st century. And we're going to focus on health care right now it's got several pieces to it.
00:19:37.260 --> 00:19:47.189 Phyllis Quinlan: One piece is that we definitely have to do everything we can to create the healthiest work environment possible. So that means that we have to make sure we are.
00:19:47.240 --> 00:20:13.249 Phyllis Quinlan: you know, communicating at the best possible way that we have true collaboration. I'm going to expand on that in a minute that we have meaningful recognition that every time we recognize someone we're not just saying great job, but we're anchoring their understanding that what they do is vital to the team and to the patients, and they anchor their sense of belonging. When people belong, feel they belong to a department or an organization. They're less likely to leave. And they're going to keep their talent with us.
00:20:13.250 --> 00:20:22.240 Phyllis Quinlan: You know, there's authentic leadership that needs to happen. And in that authentic leadership is really the the courage to be able to take on
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:47.939 Phyllis Quinlan: the disruptive behaviors of bullying and incivility. There. There's no place for these in the healthcare anymore. We have very savvy, very, very, you know, worldly and patient populations who have an expectation. We are 10 plus years into having, you know. You know what we call patient centered care and and patient experience groups. And you know, we really have to. Now.
00:20:47.980 --> 00:21:10.120 Phyllis Quinlan: you know, make those things come alive and not just talk about them. So for those leaders that are engaging in transactional leadership, I believe they're going to find themselves bleeding talent or not being able to achieve, to achieve any benchmarks that reflect cohesive teamwork, because that type of leadership has come and gone, and as I shared with you, post covid.
00:21:10.120 --> 00:21:33.370 Phyllis Quinlan: people are feeling far more confident and confident than ever. So you need to level up your leadership piece that way. But going forward, you need to be able to address those behaviors that are tugging away at cohesive team building and team engagement, so that we need to do things in healthcare now that are beyond cooperation
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:38.299 Phyllis Quinlan: beyond collaboration, and actually promote solidarity.
00:21:38.540 --> 00:22:08.420 Phyllis Quinlan: And that was the example that Covid gave us. We never came together as an interprofessional team greater than we did for Co. Than during Covid. Everybody was on a level playing field. Everybody understood their role. Everybody respected everybody's role. Everybody saw each other as vital and essential, and we should not go back into the silos of being blind to those achievements and insights just because Covid is behind us. That was the universe showing us. That's the direction you need to go in.
00:22:08.420 --> 00:22:25.130 Phyllis Quinlan: So we need to really take down silos. Put our egos in the drawer, really start to develop those into professional collaborations in a healthy work environment that will take us beyond cooperation and collaboration and really have solidarity of purpose.
00:22:25.630 --> 00:22:27.239 Frank R. Harrison: Right absolutely
00:22:27.290 --> 00:22:38.889 Frank R. Harrison: and welcome, Jennifer, I mean again. I'm still blown away. What you said a year, and I think a little bit more than a year and a half ago. But, the whole issue of forgiveness is
00:22:38.900 --> 00:22:40.490 Frank R. Harrison: a mixture of
00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:45.959 Frank R. Harrison: not just understanding that it is a future that will not happen.
00:22:46.130 --> 00:22:53.020 Frank R. Harrison: or the future, the hope for a future is lost. I think that's what you said, but you also pointed out that
00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:56.780 Frank R. Harrison: I guess, when looking at whatever your trauma is.
00:22:56.810 --> 00:22:58.759 Frank R. Harrison: If you forgive yourself.
00:22:58.870 --> 00:23:02.350 Frank R. Harrison: then you know how to work with it rather than work against it.
00:23:02.690 --> 00:23:06.740 Frank R. Harrison: And and I really wanted to get a segue or or a bridge
00:23:06.750 --> 00:23:20.380 Frank R. Harrison: between what Phyllis just and you know, articulated about workplace systems and how forgiveness and even dignity plays a role in that, or maybe it's still being learned or or trained to those workers. But
00:23:20.410 --> 00:23:23.499 Frank R. Harrison: whatever insights you have, I'm I'm looking forward to hear them.
00:23:23.840 --> 00:23:33.170 Jennifer Griggs: Well, I'm really delighted to be here and appreciate you, letting me in, even though I'm late and so happy to be back with you, Frank, and with Phyllis.
00:23:33.250 --> 00:23:36.929 Jennifer Griggs: Yes, forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past.
00:23:37.340 --> 00:23:37.700 Frank R. Harrison: That is it.
00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:47.259 Jennifer Griggs: And it's a shift in our emotional experience. Forgiveness at work has been studied and researched, and is one of the elements of a virtuous
00:23:47.280 --> 00:23:51.490 Jennifer Griggs: organization along with dignity, and they really do go
00:23:51.530 --> 00:23:52.800 Jennifer Griggs: hand in hand.
00:23:52.820 --> 00:24:06.360 Jennifer Griggs: just for people who haven't heard or need a refresher. Our dignity is our inherent worth or value. It's congenital. We're born with it. It's our birth right, and nobody has more or less than another
00:24:06.540 --> 00:24:08.949 Jennifer Griggs: unlike respect which is acquired.
00:24:08.970 --> 00:24:13.119 Jennifer Griggs: I think, about this in the medical model. Respect we have to earn
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:23.929 Jennifer Griggs: you can't really demand respect. As Donna Hicks, who wrote the book. Dignity has said, you you have to earn respect, but you can demand that your dignity
00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:26.480 Jennifer Griggs: be honored. One of the things
00:24:26.580 --> 00:24:29.069 Jennifer Griggs: since we last talked about this that I've
00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:33.980 Jennifer Griggs: started to see is how often we violate our own dignity as leaders.
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:38.980 Jennifer Griggs: that when we laugh out at somebody or we do something that violates
00:24:39.330 --> 00:24:44.949 Jennifer Griggs: their dignity, we're also violating our own. We're making ourselves smaller. We're
00:24:44.990 --> 00:24:47.240 Jennifer Griggs: diminishing our life.
00:24:47.360 --> 00:24:51.120 Jennifer Griggs: And I think it's been a transformative lens
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:59.499 Jennifer Griggs: for me. As a leader. I lead a team of 23 people we serve close to 400 physicians across the State of Michigan.
00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:11.630 Jennifer Griggs: And our team has this culture of purpose, one of our core values. So if is collaboration, I'm gonna have to bring back solidarity to the team and see if they wanna if they wanna reboot that.
00:25:12.659 --> 00:25:23.919 Jennifer Griggs: But yeah, I think when we don't call hold leaders accountable, or if leaders don't hold bullies accountable, we contaminate the whole organization.
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:35.760 Frank R. Harrison: absolutely, I gather, is, is the whole aspect of bullying driven by those that haven't forgiven themselves, or don't even understand their own self, respect or dignity.
00:25:37.020 --> 00:25:37.710 Jennifer Griggs: Yeah.
00:25:38.070 --> 00:25:42.639 Phyllis Quinlan: I'm sorry to jump in, Jennifer, but it's not something you do to yourself.
00:25:42.710 --> 00:25:44.870 Phyllis Quinlan: So we're not going to blame the victim here.
00:25:45.710 --> 00:25:52.410 Phyllis Quinlan: Okay, keeping in mind that someone who is engaging in bullying behavior is engaging in narcissistic behavior.
00:25:52.460 --> 00:26:01.489 Phyllis Quinlan: and and by virtue of that, you know, is is has to put someone underneath them in order to feel like they're tall.
00:26:01.620 --> 00:26:05.210 Phyllis Quinlan: and you know they they will
00:26:05.530 --> 00:26:27.269 Phyllis Quinlan: engage in typical narcissistic communication, dysfunctional communication techniques like plausible deniability and gas lighting in order to make the other person feel as though they are incompetent and confident, and they can get their way when you are dealing with narcissists or anybody in an abusive behavior. It's about power. Make just make no mistake.
00:26:27.270 --> 00:26:28.249 Frank R. Harrison: Okay. Okay.
00:26:28.250 --> 00:26:35.740 Phyllis Quinlan: Me exerting my power over you. Whether that is child abuse, domestic violence, elder abuse.
00:26:35.760 --> 00:26:37.350 Phyllis Quinlan: It's okay, or
00:26:37.450 --> 00:26:39.140 Phyllis Quinlan: bullying in the workplace.
00:26:39.600 --> 00:26:43.909 Frank R. Harrison: Okay, so one can say and correct me if I'm wrong, that narcissism
00:26:44.110 --> 00:26:45.570 Frank R. Harrison: may exist.
00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:56.770 Frank R. Harrison: Oh, well, a narcissist may have dignity or respect, or whatever. But there's a divide, and their narcissistic behavior is totally separate and unique from it. They just don't
00:26:56.830 --> 00:27:01.160 Frank R. Harrison: use the dignity or self respect, or any of the things we've been discussing
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:04.940 Frank R. Harrison: in their process of bullying. There's there's no inter relationship.
00:27:05.250 --> 00:27:30.539 Phyllis Quinlan: So we we we don't know enough about narcissists to be able to give us that kind of global perspective. And the reason is that we don't have enough to study, and that's because they don't lend themselves to study because they're perfect. And they're wonderful. And you know there's nothing they need to fix. And so why would you need to study me? Do you know what I mean? Just watch what I'm doing? I'm so terrific, you know you just bask in the glory of my
00:27:30.540 --> 00:27:52.160 Phyllis Quinlan: of my presence. You know where? Really what we know from some narcissistic, you know, teachings from our our colleagues in behavioral health is that they? There's a there's a real lack of empathy for the human experience, that they are very self focused, and that everything. It's all, all roads lead to them.
00:27:52.340 --> 00:27:56.319 Phyllis Quinlan: and that people are there to serve their agenda.
00:27:56.510 --> 00:28:04.579 Phyllis Quinlan: They will engage in some kind of an acquaintance or pseudo relationship with people based on usefulness, not feelings.
00:28:04.580 --> 00:28:05.153 Frank R. Harrison: That's true.
00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:10.649 Phyllis Quinlan: Useful to me. You're in my circle. The minute you're no longer useful to me we kick you to the curb
00:28:11.651 --> 00:28:29.360 Phyllis Quinlan: someone else. So it. There is a you have to think of the the admiring of oneself as Greek mythology has said, and you know, and understanding that the world should come to me. The the rules don't matter. I am entitled.
00:28:29.560 --> 00:28:34.960 Phyllis Quinlan: You're not as special, and if you come at me or threaten me in any way.
00:28:35.130 --> 00:28:36.080 Phyllis Quinlan: then
00:28:36.270 --> 00:28:37.580 Phyllis Quinlan: the games begin.
00:28:38.260 --> 00:29:07.219 Frank R. Harrison: That appears, then that whole. The whole aspect of narcissism is the outlier or the conundrum in all the research that both of you are doing in areas of leadership and dignity. Well, we're ready for our second break. And the thing is is that I just want to open our next segment, where both Phyllis and Jennifer share their recent work, which is both podcast Oriented webinar, oriented speaking events oriented. That's a lot more progress that has happened from
00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:23.339 Frank R. Harrison: 2 very special guests that are in my upcoming documentary about this very show. And so please stay tuned right here on talk radio, Nyc and on our social media so that we can really get the the sizzle of what both of you have been doing for the past year. So
00:29:23.490 --> 00:29:25.539 Frank R. Harrison: all right, stay tuned. We'll be back in a few.
00:31:26.470 --> 00:31:35.930 Frank R. Harrison: Hey, everybody, and welcome back. So the both of you have been very busy together, I think, in the last few months I know that you both had appeared on a leadership seminar or webinar.
00:31:36.196 --> 00:31:47.089 Frank R. Harrison: Why don't you tell me? Well, I mean I was there. But I tell the audience about what the both of you discussed, and and how it influenced a lot of the work that you both are doing in in the area of leadership and dignity.
00:31:48.310 --> 00:31:49.440 Phyllis Quinlan: Once you stretch in.
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:54.849 Jennifer Griggs: Sure it was a great session. Jane Halford, from Halfard associates, organized it.
00:31:54.860 --> 00:32:04.689 Jennifer Griggs: and I talked about dignity and leading with dignity what it looks like when dignity is honored, and even more important when it's violated, and then
00:32:04.990 --> 00:32:08.539 Jennifer Griggs: how we can reclaim our dignity after harm!
00:32:09.690 --> 00:32:14.880 Jennifer Griggs: It was, it was terrific. And then Phyllis's section was wonderful.
00:32:15.190 --> 00:32:19.289 Frank R. Harrison: I'm sure I mean it was a lot of what you talked about, I mean.
00:32:19.470 --> 00:32:25.279 Frank R. Harrison: I what we've been talking about right now for the past half hour was echoed during that webinar.
00:32:25.430 --> 00:32:27.754 Jennifer Griggs: That's right. Yes, yes.
00:32:28.220 --> 00:32:33.330 Frank R. Harrison: There any special takeaway that maybe we haven't discussed yet, that a lot of people can learn from.
00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:55.950 Jennifer Griggs: I think for me. The my big takeaway is that you can reclaim your dignity after harm, that we don't have to stay in a victim role that we can recalibrate if we've made mistakes as leaders, we can take accountability. And that's tremendously feeling, not just for the leader and the people they form but the entire ecosystem that
00:32:55.950 --> 00:33:15.080 Jennifer Griggs: you know you can witness something in civilities, and that affects your your joy at work, your meaning, whether you want to even go to work. But there are ways that we can recalibrate and shift. We do need to let people know that we've learned otherwise. They can be really destabilized if we just
00:33:15.100 --> 00:33:25.050 Jennifer Griggs: change our behavior if we used to dominate a conversation. And now we're fitting back a little bit that can be destabilizing for people. But my my
00:33:25.370 --> 00:33:31.070 Jennifer Griggs: real message moving forward is, yes, let's learn about the elements of dignity and what it feels like, what happens
00:33:31.110 --> 00:33:42.740 Jennifer Griggs: when they may violate it. But let's take a deeper dive into how we can reclaim dignity ourselves for others, the organization, frankly, our community and the world.
00:33:43.250 --> 00:34:00.920 Frank R. Harrison: Yes, absolutely. I I gather, maybe the question that keeps going through my mind because I'm experiencing this, especially in recent events with both my father and my cousin. I know, Phyllis, you know all about my cousin's story, and we're at the point where we're looking for daycare services for her.
00:34:01.260 --> 00:34:26.680 Frank R. Harrison: and we had a meeting with her primary care physician as well as her neurologist. And what I've noticed is that obviously, from the years of working with her case. I was approaching it as if I was I. I am her advocate. So I was in a leadership role, and I was making the requests as necessary for Medicaid as well as for the hospital system we were dealing with. But I noticed resistance coming in particular from the neurologist.
00:34:26.830 --> 00:34:34.089 Frank R. Harrison: and I decided, well, I can understand why the resistance exists. Let me bring it over to the primary care physician situation.
00:34:34.520 --> 00:34:49.069 Frank R. Harrison: looking at the overall picture of my cousin's health, and she then told me the way to defuse it and still get my end goal. So I found myself actually in my cousin's situation, feeling like I was working on a team project and.
00:34:49.070 --> 00:34:49.540 Jennifer Griggs: You were.
00:34:49.540 --> 00:34:50.460 Frank R. Harrison: Wow!
00:34:50.659 --> 00:35:01.239 Frank R. Harrison: It's interesting, because I was always imagining that if I'm the doctor, or if I'm the intern, or if I'm the technician, that I have a justified role.
00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:15.539 Frank R. Harrison: But as an advocate of a family member, I created my own role and used a lot of the skills that we've talked about in order to get through those sessions, which I guess that's a benefit that I have. But it tells me
00:35:15.550 --> 00:35:24.680 Frank R. Harrison: that everyone needs to adapt to that kind of mindset, especially like you said earlier. Phyllis Covid taught all of us that we were on our own.
00:35:25.010 --> 00:35:26.890 Frank R. Harrison: So you had to develop your own skills.
00:35:26.890 --> 00:35:30.840 Phyllis Quinlan: As a consumer of the healthcare product or the healthcare system, and.
00:35:31.170 --> 00:35:35.269 Frank R. Harrison: Have to be, not the consumer. But now the leader is taking care of a consumer.
00:35:35.270 --> 00:35:39.630 Phyllis Quinlan: As someone who's consuming. And and you're advocating for your cousin.
00:35:40.195 --> 00:35:59.560 Phyllis Quinlan: Can you imagine if you were working with a team that was less than empathetic with, you know, and appreciative of what your situation is as a caregiver, a family caregiver, and appreciative of the good job that you're doing. So if the team can't get along together, if there is, if if you are noticing
00:35:59.570 --> 00:36:01.379 Phyllis Quinlan: in that in that
00:36:01.390 --> 00:36:08.459 Phyllis Quinlan: huddle, if you will, that group setting where you're discussing what's going to happen, and how we going to navigate this issue and support your cousin?
00:36:08.969 --> 00:36:34.329 Phyllis Quinlan: If if you're getting the sense that the team isn't cohesive. If you're getting the sense that they keep, the team cannot role model negotiation, the team is not open to discussion, and it's a top down kind of we're going to talk at you. We're not going to talk with you. If that if they're doing that to each other, then how do you, as the consumer, potential consumer of this product, and advocate for your
00:36:34.330 --> 00:36:42.310 Phyllis Quinlan: your your cousin, who needs advocacy, cannot stand up and advocate for herself any longer. Well enough or consistently.
00:36:42.390 --> 00:36:46.600 Phyllis Quinlan: Then then you lose faith in that team, and now we lose you.
00:36:46.630 --> 00:36:58.980 Phyllis Quinlan: and the team is still not cohesive, and they want to blame you for being reluctant as opposed to the dynamics of the team, somewhat drove you away because you didn't have that sense of belonging. You didn't have that sense of inclusion.
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:02.319 Frank R. Harrison: Correct, but I held on to my dignity.
00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:06.179 Frank R. Harrison: That's what kept me focused so.
00:37:06.180 --> 00:37:07.389 Phyllis Quinlan: And your cousins.
00:37:07.610 --> 00:37:13.129 Frank R. Harrison: And well, that, too. Of course I I think the one thing that I wanted to figure out, though, is, I guess.
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:14.960 Frank R. Harrison: is the patient
00:37:15.140 --> 00:37:16.080 Frank R. Harrison: the
00:37:16.370 --> 00:37:22.950 Frank R. Harrison: at the end of the line in terms of the distribution chain of understanding that there's dignity
00:37:23.190 --> 00:37:49.059 Frank R. Harrison: in the whole healthcare ecosystem, because you may be a consumer of healthcare, as you mentioned Phyllis. But remember, they're taking care of you, the patient. So you're the big case that they all have to profess professionally deal with. So is that where the education on dignity is being focused now on the individual patient and how to develop their own, I wouldn't want to call it vigilance, but their own
00:37:49.180 --> 00:37:52.679 Frank R. Harrison: leadership of owning themselves, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
00:37:52.680 --> 00:37:54.949 Phyllis Quinlan: Jen, I think this is a great question for you.
00:37:54.950 --> 00:37:58.970 Jennifer Griggs: Yeah. So I'm thinking about the elements of dignity that Donna Hicks has
00:37:59.040 --> 00:38:09.440 Jennifer Griggs: identified, and those include safety, inclusion, acceptance of identity, and then understanding, recognition, and acknowledgement which I just put together is being seen and heard.
00:38:09.470 --> 00:38:11.429 Jennifer Griggs: And then there's the justice
00:38:11.490 --> 00:38:16.359 Jennifer Griggs: elements which are autonomy, accountability, fairness.
00:38:16.730 --> 00:38:30.570 Jennifer Griggs: and being given the benefit of the doubt. And I think when I think about your situation and think about autonomy and accountability, so who to whom are is the team accountable. They should be accountable to the patients and the patients
00:38:30.570 --> 00:38:51.840 Jennifer Griggs: community, you and other family members. When that doesn't happen, when we don't see what's happening, when our dignity is violated, we just feel bad, and we we feel it in our body, and we might avoid conflict. There's a temptation we can fall prey to, or we might lash out because our dignity's been violated, I think.
00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.320 Jennifer Griggs: for me, being able to name those elements, if not
00:38:55.620 --> 00:38:59.229 Jennifer Griggs: violated, bruised, or at risk elements.
00:38:59.230 --> 00:39:00.429 Frank R. Harrison: At risk, I would say.
00:39:00.430 --> 00:39:01.800 Jennifer Griggs: Risk. Yeah, I would.
00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:03.020 Frank R. Harrison: Flags go up and you get very.
00:39:03.020 --> 00:39:03.340 Jennifer Griggs: Yeah.
00:39:03.340 --> 00:39:04.920 Frank R. Harrison: You don't know what's happening, and you.
00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:06.409 Jennifer Griggs: Feel that in your body.
00:39:06.410 --> 00:39:07.330 Frank R. Harrison: Yes, yes.
00:39:07.330 --> 00:39:15.600 Jennifer Griggs: And I think, you know, to speak to Phyllis's work, that awareness of the body. It can be the best place to start, and then to
00:39:16.180 --> 00:39:19.619 Jennifer Griggs: to think about is this dignity or pride?
00:39:19.630 --> 00:39:23.009 Jennifer Griggs: Pride is very different. Is it dignity or honor?
00:39:23.120 --> 00:39:30.400 Jennifer Griggs: Is it just not getting what you wanted? No, my kids can tell me. Well, I didn't get an ice cream. You die violated my dignity.
00:39:31.026 --> 00:39:31.580 Frank R. Harrison: You know.
00:39:31.580 --> 00:39:36.200 Jennifer Griggs: So really not dignity, honey, just not getting what you want.
00:39:36.200 --> 00:39:37.230 Phyllis Quinlan: Good trucks.
00:39:37.230 --> 00:39:37.840 Jennifer Griggs: Yeah.
00:39:38.173 --> 00:39:39.840 Phyllis Quinlan: You know. So it's it's.
00:39:39.840 --> 00:40:05.869 Jennifer Griggs: Scan that shows us something we don't want to hear about, is it? On colleges? I talk a lot about scans. People don't like the results of that's not a dignity violation, but it is a dignity violation not to give that patient autonomy about their choices, going forward not to hear and sit with their emotions, not to provide safety, which is so linked to trust
00:40:06.685 --> 00:40:07.240 Jennifer Griggs: and
00:40:07.270 --> 00:40:11.439 Jennifer Griggs: obviously trust takes a while to build. And it's so easy to break.
00:40:11.950 --> 00:40:15.669 Jennifer Griggs: Sounds like you had to do some negotiating around Trust.
00:40:15.810 --> 00:40:17.359 Frank R. Harrison: Oh, I was juggling.
00:40:17.390 --> 00:40:20.592 Frank R. Harrison: I'm doing the trust machine right now.
00:40:21.050 --> 00:40:27.999 Phyllis Quinlan: That's unfortunate, because, as I shared before, we're many years into the model of patient-centered care
00:40:28.020 --> 00:40:49.540 Phyllis Quinlan: and putting the patient at the center of the team, not on the outside of the team, not at the head of the team, but at the center of the team, but the understanding that we work for them, and the 1st thing we need to do is be able to be to listen to what they want and listen closely, not just say, okay, you have XYZ diagnosis. Here's what we're gonna do to you. But it being good of open.
00:40:49.540 --> 00:41:02.330 Phyllis Quinlan: But here's here's what the scan or the diagnosis shows. We'd like to talk to you a little bit about what that means, and certainly take your questions and then talk to you about.
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:22.850 Phyllis Quinlan: You know, options for treatment or options for non-treatment. What would that look like and really give you, you know. So you can make what we classically call an informed decision, but also be able to have some self determination in exactly how aggressive or non-aggressive you want to be, in what what we have to offer you.
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:33.619 Frank R. Harrison: Incredible, you know, and I guess, if anything, it also brings not just the issue of dignity to the advocate of the patient. But even if you're getting misinformation from the doctor.
00:41:33.930 --> 00:41:39.890 Frank R. Harrison: is that a dignity issue? Or is that an issue of not really being self-aware.
00:41:41.490 --> 00:41:45.330 Jennifer Griggs: That could be a competence issue right? There's skill and competence.
00:41:45.698 --> 00:41:51.469 Jennifer Griggs: So when when we hire on our team and imagine hiring a physician, you want somebody with the skill set
00:41:51.630 --> 00:41:56.089 Jennifer Griggs: set that you want, and then you also want those dispositions and behaviors
00:41:56.210 --> 00:42:09.300 Jennifer Griggs: and a mindset. And frankly, I don't really care what's going on in somebody's head. Their behavior, like we don't really need to change hearts and minds. We want equitable, fair, just patient, centered
00:42:09.300 --> 00:42:26.459 Jennifer Griggs: treatment. So it's really the outcome. We're aiming for the the other thing that I I do think self awareness plays a big role. So if a physician feels that they're not trusted they can get really defensive and repel feedback. And
00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:52.719 Jennifer Griggs: one of the things. When I left my previous role at the University of Rochester, I gave each of my patients and on colleges, and they'd call me they found my home number in Ann arbor, Michigan, and they'd call, and they say we're not developing the same relationship we had with you. And I said, Of course you're not. I was there from the beginning. The thing you can do to get more of what you need from the doctor is to let them know you trust them.
00:42:52.770 --> 00:42:56.300 Jennifer Griggs: And it's an I really ironic thing that even if
00:42:56.320 --> 00:43:01.449 Jennifer Griggs: you're still building a relationship to tell somebody you trust them
00:43:01.700 --> 00:43:07.740 Jennifer Griggs: brings you on the same side. So it's not about the doctor anymore. It's about that shared
00:43:07.860 --> 00:43:11.020 Jennifer Griggs: reality, that solidarity that fellas is
00:43:11.160 --> 00:43:14.490 Jennifer Griggs: and joinedered us to honor. It's that
00:43:14.530 --> 00:43:29.670 Jennifer Griggs: using of goals and all of my previous patients did that, they said to the doctor, I trust you. I really value your opinion. Could you answer a few more questions for me, and that therapeutic alliance happened in one visit?
00:43:29.700 --> 00:43:38.699 Jennifer Griggs: So it's kind of interesting. You have to trust before you could tell somebody you trust them, but you may also get better dispositions and behaviors
00:43:38.710 --> 00:43:42.849 Jennifer Griggs: if you let them know. I trust you and I need you.
00:43:43.050 --> 00:43:47.530 Jennifer Griggs: Doctors don't really want to be loved or liked. We want to be trusted.
00:43:47.850 --> 00:44:07.189 Phyllis Quinlan: Basis of that trust development is to be able to have a relationship which starts with listening and honest communication. And then, you know, you're giving them a reason to trust. And then the the the patient physician relationship can really take off from there.
00:44:07.910 --> 00:44:19.280 Frank R. Harrison: No, this is incredible. When I was on the hard skills, I talked about how, when I asked the right questions to the doctor, like in my father's case. They like the question because it gives them feedback that
00:44:19.390 --> 00:44:44.810 Frank R. Harrison: they're up to par with their skill set, or even their education in the particular practice in in this case, oncology that that could be an aspect of providing the trust upfront when you're validating them with information. You already know what they've presented in the past. But you're saying, have you looked into this as well? And they're like, Wow! That's a good question. Before you know it. It seems that that trust connection is built in that same speed that you were just mentioning.
00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:47.129 Frank R. Harrison: We're about to take our final break. But.
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:56.779 Frank R. Harrison: like you, said Phyllis. We're in the flow, so I can't believe we only have, like another 10 or 12 min left to wrap up and really talk about the future of where we're all going
00:44:57.252 --> 00:45:12.729 Frank R. Harrison: but when we return right here on Frank about health, we're gonna learn about the dignity lab and the podcast and we're gonna learn more, Phyllis, about some of your I mean, are you gonna be speaking in the near future? I think. Yes, I wanna know about that, and I will wrap up the show by continuing on
00:45:12.730 --> 00:45:29.040 Frank R. Harrison: the promotion of my new venture. Healthy media, which is going to continue on frank about health as well as other premium extensions of that in the future. So please stay tuned right here on Frank about health, the talk radio, Nyc. In our socials. We will be back in a few.
00:47:32.210 --> 00:47:52.249 Frank R. Harrison: Hey, everybody, and welcome back for those of you who heard the commercial break right now you heard Dr. Mira Branco and the hard skills which is appearing on Tuesdays same time as this one. If any of you had a chance to see. I was her special guest last Tuesday, and we already did a discussion on a lot of what Phyllis Jennifer and I were discussing in the last segment.
00:47:52.290 --> 00:47:59.443 Frank R. Harrison: So that being said, Since we're talking about podcasts. I understand you've got one called the dignity Lab.
00:47:59.820 --> 00:48:00.330 Jennifer Griggs: That's right.
00:48:00.330 --> 00:48:03.219 Frank R. Harrison: Share about it. Yeah, the details behind it.
00:48:03.220 --> 00:48:19.490 Jennifer Griggs: So we just started our second season. It drops every Sunday every single week. I'm the host, and my producer is a dear friend and colleague of mine, Vanessa Aaron. We interview people who excel in leadership. But we've also thought about leadership is
00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:31.890 Jennifer Griggs: how we can impact our communities. So we talk about things like food, insecurity, and bodily autonomy, and how that plays out in our current environment. We talk about
00:48:31.910 --> 00:49:01.060 Jennifer Griggs: a whole host of things at the personal level. I have people on who share deeply personal experiences of recovery, and how, when they were able to recognize their own dignity, Fred Coulter, in particular, talks about how he was able to see the dignity of other people and how that was life changing. Each episode is between 35 and 60 min, and I do have to warn everybody. Most people say they have to listen to each episode a couple of times, because it's so dense.
00:49:01.060 --> 00:49:18.189 Jennifer Griggs: I have to say this is lighting me up more than anything I can remember in a really long time. So I'd love to have people who are listening check it out, subscribe like share and all those things. And if you're facing a dignity dilemma, we'd love to have you on the show, and you can remain anonymous.
00:49:18.390 --> 00:49:22.040 Frank R. Harrison: Well, where is it? Is it on spotify, or Youtube, or.
00:49:22.040 --> 00:49:26.989 Jennifer Griggs: Every place. You get your podcast it's spotify Youtube apple. Podcast
00:49:27.010 --> 00:49:32.800 Jennifer Griggs: and you can also just go straight to the website, Www, the dignity lab.com.
00:49:33.130 --> 00:49:38.040 Frank R. Harrison: Awesome, awesome. What have what has been the response so far? Has it been
00:49:38.220 --> 00:49:42.899 Frank R. Harrison: amazing? I mean, I'm sure it has been. That's why I'm asking you if you've had the same response.
00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:59.470 Jennifer Griggs: It has been. The people who are friends of mine are clients of mine. I got a text message earlier today that the episode that dropped on Sunday was healing to one of my clients, hearing another person describe a failure at work, and how she's recovered from that.
00:49:59.530 --> 00:50:09.339 Jennifer Griggs: So I I do find that the conversations are transforming the listener. And I'm also hearing from the guest
00:50:09.510 --> 00:50:21.569 Jennifer Griggs: that they haven't experienced the conversation like that before. I think some of my coaching skills are coming out. I'm asking questions. People don't know the answers to. So they have to go really deep.
00:50:22.070 --> 00:50:25.629 Frank R. Harrison: Awesome, Phyllis, have you been on the show yet? Or will you be on the show.
00:50:25.630 --> 00:50:26.389 Jennifer Griggs: She will be.
00:50:26.610 --> 00:50:27.130 Frank R. Harrison: There
00:50:28.089 --> 00:50:31.959 Frank R. Harrison: awesome, always getting you the exposure you deserve.
00:50:34.530 --> 00:50:40.889 Phyllis Quinlan: Had already reached out to me when she 1st started this and said, I hope you're going to say yes to one episode, and I said absolutely.
00:50:41.140 --> 00:50:55.409 Frank R. Harrison: Okay. Awesome and of course I'm offering my own opportunity if you feel it's appropriate. So but tell us about Phyllis. What, what talking events or engagements are you gonna be doing over the summer.
00:50:55.410 --> 00:51:02.260 Phyllis Quinlan: Well, I just did one at the Malloy University, which was really a true honor because I graduated there
00:51:02.450 --> 00:51:21.359 Phyllis Quinlan: X amount of years ago. I graduated in 75 with my degree in psychology and sociology, and then in 78, with my degree in nursing, and to to go back to your Rama and be the keynote speaker for their palliative care. Conference was really one of the highlights of my career.
00:51:21.672 --> 00:51:45.099 Phyllis Quinlan: You know, you know, when you're in college. You always wonder, you know you ever get to the point where your professors are or your colleagues are, or you're in a work environment. You see your you know your charged person or your chief nursing whatever, and you think mail maybe someday I'll be there so to to walk up on that stage and and share the thoughts of 46 years of leadership or 46 years of practice.
00:51:45.947 --> 00:52:01.689 Phyllis Quinlan: Was really a a wonderful moment for me. So I spoke about. You know, building and sustaining your resilience with persistent uncertainty, which is really a tormenting challenge for any adult, let alone a group of professional caregivers.
00:52:01.710 --> 00:52:17.219 Phyllis Quinlan: And that's really what we're navigating right now. How to navigate persistent uncertainty, and what I shared with them is, nobody can put a solid foot on anything. Not that we had a solid foot on much prior to Covid, but even since we're still struggling to recover, there's been closures.
00:52:17.220 --> 00:52:44.300 Phyllis Quinlan: Certainly we're downsizing, right sizing, rethinking our care models yet again. You know, there there is, you know, just not. We're still some of the supply chains are not functioning the way they did before. And that has a lot to do with, you know, different events on the global level, you know. And you know, just when you think you're gonna get your syringes and your your different various durable medical equipment pieces that you've been waiting for for so long.
00:52:44.370 --> 00:52:51.179 Phyllis Quinlan: you know a barge hits a bridge, and everything's at the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay. So you know, what is it that you do
00:52:51.240 --> 00:52:54.200 Phyllis Quinlan: when it's constantly struggling with
00:52:54.590 --> 00:52:58.470 Phyllis Quinlan: trying to adapt to the change that's happening. In the moment.
00:52:59.030 --> 00:53:11.040 Phyllis Quinlan: Prior to this we would have change, maybe quarterly, annually. We'd have a different set of goals. We'd be able to kind of predict the landscape for the next year, or maybe you could even predict out 6 months, and so on.
00:53:11.060 --> 00:53:16.440 Phyllis Quinlan: Those days are over. And I'm I'm trying to get everybody to work on their emotional intelligence
00:53:16.570 --> 00:53:31.920 Phyllis Quinlan: enough to be able to build their resilience so that they feel more at ease with whatever rolls up to their front door. There the the door of their department that they're gonna have to navigate now.
00:53:32.410 --> 00:53:32.760 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:52.629 Phyllis Quinlan: To really let go of the transactional need for power and control, because Lord knows, we don't have any. Okay. So and to embrace the fact that what we need to do is really develop our sense as leaders of authenticity and relatability, so that we can influence our staff
00:53:52.960 --> 00:54:00.809 Phyllis Quinlan: and communicate well enough for them to understand the initiative we're trying to achieve. So they voluntarily come on board.
00:54:01.333 --> 00:54:12.339 Phyllis Quinlan: They don't have to, because it's you know their job or you're gonna you know, please, somebody, or you just wanna, you know, not be bothered, or you know there's no, there's nothing
00:54:12.530 --> 00:54:24.950 Phyllis Quinlan: there's no underlying coercion to getting on board with doing what's right other than that person, explained the goals to me so clearly, and I believe in them so much influence.
00:54:25.110 --> 00:54:50.340 Phyllis Quinlan: Trust you will. Okay, that I want to be part of this on a voluntary basis. And not only do I want to get involved, but tell me what else I can do when we are at that level of leadership when we are there. Then we're gonna navigate persistent uncertainty. Well, and I trying to get everybody to tool up, because, in my humble opinion, we're gonna be navigating some dicey waters until 2030 at least.
00:54:50.510 --> 00:54:53.379 Phyllis Quinlan: That's 5 and a half years of uncertainty
00:54:53.690 --> 00:55:04.599 Phyllis Quinlan: which requires a pioneer spirit. You know. How are you going to get across that river? I don't know. We've got to figure it out when we get there. How am I going to get over those mountains? I don't know. We'll either gonna make a path or find it.
00:55:04.780 --> 00:55:07.140 Phyllis Quinlan: And and it's that type of
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:10.850 Phyllis Quinlan: I'm not sure. But here's here's what I do know.
00:55:10.860 --> 00:55:12.190 Phyllis Quinlan: When we get there
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:17.510 Phyllis Quinlan: together we can figure it out. That's the leadership of the 21st century.
00:55:18.030 --> 00:55:24.559 Frank R. Harrison: Incredible. Well, we have 2 min before end. But I just want to make some closing comments. First, st a question for both of you.
00:55:24.570 --> 00:55:28.160 Frank R. Harrison: Is it safe to say, because I've learned a lot again, as I always do.
00:55:28.340 --> 00:55:31.010 Frank R. Harrison: that when a patient
00:55:31.350 --> 00:55:40.239 Frank R. Harrison: claims their dignity or they forgive themselves? Can it lead to resilient behavior or a feeling of resilience for positive outcomes.
00:55:41.890 --> 00:55:49.640 Jennifer Griggs: Absolutely. I think once people can reclaim their dignity, and with that comes forgiveness of self and others.
00:55:49.660 --> 00:55:52.180 Jennifer Griggs: They're able to bend without breaking.
00:55:52.220 --> 00:55:54.160 Jennifer Griggs: and they can remain
00:55:54.270 --> 00:56:00.209 Jennifer Griggs: the subject of the sentence, not the object, not this was done to me, but rather I do.
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:05.530 Jennifer Griggs: I pledge I commit. We talk about responding, not reacting.
00:56:05.660 --> 00:56:12.000 Jennifer Griggs: and that means the word respond comes from the old French to pledge. What can you pledge to for yourself?
00:56:12.090 --> 00:56:13.659 Jennifer Griggs: It's forward looking.
00:56:13.910 --> 00:56:14.640 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:56:14.810 --> 00:56:18.739 Frank R. Harrison: Well, Phyllis, we have an upcoming show next week
00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:21.760 Frank R. Harrison: where we might be looking at this very case.
00:56:22.238 --> 00:56:26.549 Frank R. Harrison: Jennifer, before you had a chance to join us. Phyllis and I talked about
00:56:26.700 --> 00:56:30.770 Frank R. Harrison: co-hosting a special show on a case of down syndrome.
00:56:30.860 --> 00:56:34.489 Frank R. Harrison: where the patient who will actually be on the show as well.
00:56:35.351 --> 00:56:38.840 Frank R. Harrison: Was actually misrepresented for her illness
00:56:39.060 --> 00:56:44.100 Frank R. Harrison: in her home state. Well, I wouldn't call it state her home territory
00:56:44.120 --> 00:56:45.500 Frank R. Harrison: of Canada.
00:56:45.660 --> 00:56:48.760 Frank R. Harrison: and the misrepresentation was a perception
00:56:48.980 --> 00:56:52.660 Frank R. Harrison: where, in my view, there's a missing element
00:56:52.750 --> 00:56:59.140 Frank R. Harrison: from what we've been talking about today, and I think the way we've closed the show right now in terms of
00:56:59.380 --> 00:57:16.379 Frank R. Harrison: having dignity leading to resilience. I think we're going to learn about that together, Phyllis. So everyone next week stay tuned for a very special frank about health, where we are going to be supporting the advocacy work of the family members surrounding a down, syndrome individual.
00:57:16.670 --> 00:57:23.450 Frank R. Harrison: and we are almost ready to sign off. Usually I give my announcements of all the shows coming, but I think in the interest of time.
00:57:23.470 --> 00:57:39.799 Frank R. Harrison: just thank Phyllis and Jennifer for both being here. This is a bridge from my appearance on the hard skills to our next week show. So I hope all of you basically watch the Youtube channel, the Linkedin channel everywhere that we are available.
00:57:40.100 --> 00:58:04.039 Frank R. Harrison: So that you can also find out where to see Jennifer, griggs, podcast the the dignity lab, and where you can also hear more where Phyllis will be appearing or speaking and really pulling forth the conversation on workplace leadership, especially in the healthcare system, and, as everyone knows, in the summertime, we will be releasing
00:58:04.417 --> 00:58:22.559 Frank R. Harrison: my new premium site, health E media, where you will see expanded versions of Frank about health. You will see the documentary we've been working on the past 6 months. You will also potentially see other outgrowths of some of the many guests that have been on the show for the past 3 years, and obviously both of you
00:58:22.640 --> 00:58:24.680 Frank R. Harrison: are going to be part of that. So.
00:58:24.720 --> 00:58:34.229 Frank R. Harrison: ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being here. I will be back next week with Phyllis, as well as our special episode on down syndrome in honor of brain health awareness month
00:58:34.310 --> 00:58:38.140 Frank R. Harrison: right here on talk radio. Nyc, we will see you next week.
00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:39.020 Frank R. Harrison: Take care.
00:58:39.020 --> 00:58:39.780 Phyllis Quinlan: Jen.
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