[NEW EPISODE] Actions Speak Louder Than Words

WHAT WILL THE AUDIENCE LEARN? 

The audience will hear how the models in Rev. Dr. TLC helped her to learn how to navigate and dismantle racism without even talking about it.

EPISODE SUMMARY:

Rev. Dr. TLC grew up in a close-knit thriving black community. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated 45 minutes from where she lived. James Meredith integrated the University of Mississippi, which was 15 minutes from her hometown. Ida B. Wells was born in the town where she went to high school.  Although race and racism were not a typical topic of conversation, she learned how to navigate and overcome racism through the actions of others. 

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In honor of father's day, join Rev. Dr. TLC and guest host Angela Todd as they discuss some of the men who lead by example, modeling how to be inclusive, demonstrate love, and always, always, always move through life with confidence in who she is... a beloved child of God. Hear about the ways her father, a trusted church elder, and her white pastor influenced her life.

KEY WORDS: 

#dismantleracism #healingseparationfromtheinsideout #revdrtlc #sacredintelligence

angelaltodd.com

Tune in for this important conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

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Show Notes

Segment 1

Rev. Dr. TLC welcomes back Angela Todd to the show. In honor of Father’s Day Rev. Dr. TLC and Angela are going to discuss some of the inspiring men in Rev. Dr. TLC’s life. Angela Todd is an historian and an archivist so she is a perfect guest for today’s episode. Angela Todd believes in telling women’s stories, especially women of color to help redirect the image and stereotypes of the community. Rev. Dr. TLC invites her listeners to partake in a guided meditation. Angela and Rev. Dr. TLC reflect on their past conversations with the women that were impactful in Rev. Dr. TLC’s life and how that was beneficial for her. We encourage you to reach out to Angela Todd to learn more about your heritage.

Segment 2

Angela Todd is today’s cohost and will be interviewing Rev. Dr. TLC on the influential men in her life. They start with Rev. Dr. TLC’s father. Rev. Dr. TLC shares who he was as a father and a man. Her father was a mason by trade and would brick houses. He was also an elder in the church which was significant to Rev. Dr. TLC. She speaks highly of her father and points out how attentive he was to her and her nine siblings. Rev. Dr. TLC tells Angela that her father chose her to do his eulogy two years before he died. She also points out how supportive he was of her when she was in Divinity School and how he taught her how her voice matters. 

Segment 3

Angela and Rev. Dr. TLC discuss how her father was perfect in his own way. She points out how her father-daughter relationship was very different from his marriage and it’s important to be able to separate the two. Rev. Dr. TLC explains that she didn’t always appreciate how her father showed up in his marriage. Growing up, Rev. Dr. TLC’s parents did not discuss race. When she would ask about race, her parents would brush it off. She shares that her sibling was the one to tell their parents to stop greeting white people in an inferior manner. Angela Todd explains that that is common to see generational change happen within families. Rev. Dr. TLC shares that she and her family had a special bond with their pastor even though he was white. They didn’t see color in that relationship and supported him throughout his time preaching and he supported them when Rev. Dr. TLC’s father died.

Segment 4

Angela and Rev. Dr. TLC continue to discuss Rev. Dr. TLC’s relationship with Mr. Mel who was an elder in her church. Rev. Dr. TLC shares how eloquently Mr. Mel spoke with just a fourth-grade level of education. Mr. Mel spoke about important issues and would visit different churches and speak. Rev. Dr. TLC tells Angela how progressive her father was in the church when it came to LBGTQIA issues. She also talks about another inspirational man in her life Rev. Donald Wilson. Angela asks Rev. Dr. TLC what was the commonality amongst the men in her life aside from being from the same town.

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Transcript

00:00:38.010 --> 00:01:07.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Hello, and welcome to the dismantle racism show. I'm your host. The Reverend Dr. T Lc. The goal of this show is to educate and to eradicate and really just dismantle racism one step at a time. I'm really excited to be back with you all this week. We've had a few episodes that were repeats. But today we have a live show, and I'm really excited because

00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:31.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I also have a guest interviewer with me today. Angela Todd, which you have seen her before in her brilliance, interview me around what made me who I am, and in honor of father's day we are back to take a look at some of the men in my life who helped to shape me and to make me who I am. And Angela Todd is

00:01:31.720 --> 00:01:44.140 a historian and archivist. She'll say more about herself for those of you who may be new to her. who she really believes that our stories, as women matter, and particularly

00:01:44.360 --> 00:02:09.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: our stories as women of color who've been left out of the books. And so a part of the reason why she does this work around helping us to reclaim our story is so that we can know the truth of history, so that we can also erase some of the stereotypes that we have out here about people of color or about black people to tell our true story. And so today on the show.

00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:20.269 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So we are going to highlight again the men who helped to raise me to shake me, and who actually led by example. So we're talking about

00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:44.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: how actions speak ladder than words. So I want you really to grab your friends. Tell people to listen to today's show. I want you to send messages to us on Facebook about what you think about the show on on Youtube. Send us messages. You can text me if you happen to know my number text, Angela, and ask the questions that you think would be relevant. It is important

00:02:44.220 --> 00:02:56.309 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it for us to be able to spread these stories, and I need your help to do that. I am almost very close to 100 episodes. Now I actually have more than 100, but some of them are repeats.

00:02:56.310 --> 00:03:03.189 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but we are doing this work because we want to really, really eradicate racism. And I need you to help me spread the work.

00:03:03.320 --> 00:03:30.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I want you to go to talk radio. And Yc, make sure that you're listening. Go to sacred intelligence.com go to itunes Amazon, prime Google play everywhere that you get your music and subscribe to this show and tell others about it. I know you're listening, because some of you will tell me how much you love the show. But I need you to help spread the word.

00:03:30.910 --> 00:03:44.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I also want to encourage you. If you've not done so, get a copy of my book, dismantling racism, healing separation from the inside out, because it starts with us and accompanying that book.

00:03:44.860 --> 00:03:52.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Our meditations that you can get wherever you enjoy your music. you can go to those places and get your music.

00:03:54.240 --> 00:04:00.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to help us do what we always do. To start the show is to ground ourselves.

00:04:00.700 --> 00:04:08.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And the reason why we ground ourselves is because sometimes a lot of times when we talk about race

00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:18.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and if we do not position ourselves to be collected. When we have the discussions.

00:04:18.880 --> 00:04:34.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it will make it more difficult to get our points across for us to think about the questions we want to answer, and just stay in that place of love while we're having such a difficult conversation. So I want to invite you. If you're able to. If you're not driving

00:04:35.450 --> 00:04:42.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to get comfortable. close your eyes. It just simply began to breathe.

00:04:44.030 --> 00:04:47.299 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But I want to invite you to take a deep breath in.

00:04:48.930 --> 00:04:53.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and then to slowly release that breath.

00:04:55.350 --> 00:04:57.370 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: take another deep breath in.

00:04:59.590 --> 00:05:03.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and then slowly blow that breath out.

00:05:04.450 --> 00:05:06.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and then began to just

00:05:06.690 --> 00:05:10.370 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: be in tune with your normal rhythm and breathing.

00:05:12.230 --> 00:05:16.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and then connect with your divine intelligence.

00:05:17.950 --> 00:05:23.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We're define wisdom. your sacred source.

00:05:23.570 --> 00:05:28.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and, as you know what I like to call it your sacred intelligence.

00:05:29.640 --> 00:05:35.159 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that divine part of you that helps you to make intelligent choices

00:05:35.690 --> 00:05:44.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that will manifest your greatness. while at the same time. hoping you to manifest the greatness of others.

00:05:46.070 --> 00:05:48.679 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so breathe in and out.

00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:53.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting with your power.

00:05:55.000 --> 00:06:09.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and connecting with the people who came before you the people who supported you and loved you. or even connecting with the people in your present life. We support you.

00:06:10.220 --> 00:06:13.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and because this is in honor of fathers.

00:06:14.190 --> 00:06:18.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want you to connect with those people who have fathered you

00:06:18.960 --> 00:06:27.289 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and loving ways. Maybe it was not your biological father. but maybe there are other men in your life.

00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:35.369 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: who showed up for you. who's been there for you will nurture you and guide it you.

00:06:37.510 --> 00:06:39.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and about what they meant to you.

00:06:41.780 --> 00:06:55.719 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Think about what they taught you, with an understanding of how to connect with other people in the world. Perhaps people who were different from you in terms of race or ethnicity.

00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: gender. sexuality.

00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:03.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: class age.

00:07:05.940 --> 00:07:10.849 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I just want you to give gratitude for those men in your life.

00:07:13.650 --> 00:07:15.669 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Give gratitude for the men.

00:07:17.730 --> 00:07:21.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, perhaps, are the father of your children, if you have children.

00:07:23.580 --> 00:07:28.239 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and whether they've been perfect or not. just give gratitude.

00:07:33.320 --> 00:07:36.109 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connect soul to soul.

00:07:36.900 --> 00:07:41.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: energy to energy. humanity to humanity.

00:07:43.130 --> 00:07:47.209 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and just breathe in and out.

00:07:49.090 --> 00:07:53.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: owning who you are at this time in space

00:07:56.100 --> 00:07:57.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: on the planet.

00:07:58.960 --> 00:08:02.859 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: honoring what you've been called to do, honoring your gifts.

00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:14.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: just breathe in and out, connecting with your source and your power with each breath.

00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:27.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and then recognize that what you do matters that the power of one contributes to the power of community.

00:08:29.850 --> 00:08:32.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want you to take a deep breath in.

00:08:33.669 --> 00:08:48.549 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and as you slowly saw it out. we say, and so it is by she. and then. and when you're ready. open your eyes.

00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:54.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Oh, that does good. Those good! Me

00:08:55.380 --> 00:09:17.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I could see my guest is nodding as well that it feels good to her. So I want to just welcome Angela Todd back with me this morning. I'm so grateful anytime that I can be in Angela's presence, and so grateful for the ways in which Angela helps me to just remember

00:09:17.380 --> 00:09:30.159 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: my heritage. Angela has been on the show before she has talked with us about my mother about the women in my life from my little town

00:09:30.160 --> 00:09:57.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in Waterford, Mississippi. I've done classes with Angela where she's helped me to. really find my my roots. And we're still doing some work around that. But she really is so very patient and good and informative, and I want to just invite you. If you have not reached out to Angela yet, so that she can help you find your story.

00:09:57.880 --> 00:10:12.169 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you must must do that. It doesn't matter whether it's women or not. She will help you find the stories about anyone in your life, but it's really a way of preserving

00:10:12.510 --> 00:10:21.449 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: our history. So I want you to reach out to Angela, and I want you to ask your questions as well. And so, when I wanted to do a father's Day show.

00:10:21.860 --> 00:10:40.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I knew that Angela was the best person to do that. We've worked together. We are colleagues. She's coached me of post her. We've just. We're just all in, and I love her to pieces. So I just wanna welcome Angela Todd back to the show. Hello, Angela.

00:10:40.220 --> 00:11:02.270 Angela Todd: Thank you so much, Carolyn. I love being in your presence also. It's been a while since it's been in real life. We hope to remedy that we. But life moves on right, and it is bit. It's busy. But we are thankful for zoom and phone calls and all of that. So, Angela, I'm I'm really excited to have you here because I I

00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:25.399 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I'm excited because actually, I don't have to do the interviewing. But I'm also excited because I know between the 2 of us, we will uncover and share some things that are really critical with helping other people to understand how they can lead by example, and that actions really are louder than words. Really.

00:11:25.450 --> 00:11:33.659 Angela Todd: it's all yours. I'm excited to be here. So, Carolyn, you know I work for 18 years in the Science archive.

00:11:33.800 --> 00:11:53.810 Angela Todd: and it was to capture biographical information about the scientists. And I spent most of those 18 years looking for and trying to add women and people of color and non dominant, historically excluded folks into the archives, because the way it was set up in the 60 s.

00:11:54.490 --> 00:11:59.040 Angela Todd: You had to be this brand of scientists. And so for women, of course

00:11:59.090 --> 00:12:08.019 Angela Todd: you got your science degree, and then you married A. But if you weren't employed by one, you were not included. I mean, if you weren't employed as a scientist, you weren't included.

00:12:08.340 --> 00:12:10.849 Angela Todd: and it was similar for

00:12:11.180 --> 00:12:12.670 Angela Todd: people of color.

00:12:12.710 --> 00:12:29.830 Angela Todd: Even if you got that degree it would be a lab assistant or whatever. And so it took a lot of time and a lot of convincing actually to be able to rework that card catalogue system into a bigger electronic database where we could ask more complicated questions.

00:12:29.900 --> 00:12:34.719 Angela Todd: So I feel like that's one of the ways that structural racism

00:12:35.420 --> 00:12:49.190 Angela Todd: works like all by itself, there's nobody behind it. Right? So  And what I think the overlap with this interview is that it's the real people on the ground.

00:12:49.590 --> 00:13:11.169 Angela Todd: not just people with the title or people, right people that are leading by example people that are doing the work, not just people that have a particular designation like being a scientist or whatever So anyway, I'm excited to interview you. I see we've got a minute to break, but we're gonna talk about

00:13:11.170 --> 00:13:19.160 Angela Todd: your dad, an important community member. And oh, another important community member.

00:13:19.160 --> 00:13:43.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I am, too. So so we're gonna pause for our right now. And when we come back, Angela and I are gonna dig deep into my special town of waterfront Mississippi, I mean, really, it's a really, really a special community. And I I I just thank God that I was born there and raised there, and for the people who impacted my life.

00:13:43.380 --> 00:13:50.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So we'll be right back with the dismantled racism. Show my guest host today is Angela Todd, and we'll be right back.

00:16:05.490 --> 00:16:11.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: well, we are back with the dismantled racism show. And Angela, I'm turning it over to you again.

00:16:14.620 --> 00:16:26.550 Angela Todd: and take yourself off mute and Yup right, the whole notification. So I'm really excited for this. You and I have talked about this first gentleman many, many times.

00:16:27.010 --> 00:16:38.330 Angela Todd: and I wonder if I could ask you general questions to bring listeners into a level of intimacy or knowledge that we already have. We're going to talk about your dad

00:16:38.530 --> 00:16:46.020 Angela Todd: and if you would just give us this full name, his line of work, and just describe what kind of dad he was.

00:16:47.040 --> 00:16:48.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So

00:16:48.830 --> 00:16:54.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know my dad's name is Lq. was Lq. Nathaniel Curry

00:16:55.040 --> 00:16:56.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is.

00:16:57.620 --> 00:17:04.609 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: as I say in my first book, Sacred Intelligence. My dad was a perfectly imperfect man.

00:17:05.750 --> 00:17:06.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and

00:17:08.260 --> 00:17:14.289 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: he was a mason by trade, like he would brick houses.

00:17:14.890 --> 00:17:19.599 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: He also was an elder in the church.

00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:24.969 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And that is significant, right? Because I'm going to talk about another elder in the church soon.

00:17:25.349 --> 00:17:30.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But for me my dad was really interesting is.

00:17:31.250 --> 00:17:33.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: he was such a part of my

00:17:33.790 --> 00:17:47.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: journey to become a minister, so he was so much more when I grew up right. But I don't even have time to tell you all about my dad. Well, I will tell you this. My dad paid attention to everything that was happening to us, so I'm the youngest of 10.

00:17:47.680 --> 00:18:09.849 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: My dad would notice little changes in us, and he would ask us about them sometimes. We wouldn't know ourselves that something was gonna like. Once my sister came home from college, and our ankles were swollen, and he looked down at her feet, and he says, Why, why are your ankles swollen, and she looks down and she goes. Oh, my gosh! I didn't even know they were swollen

00:18:09.910 --> 00:18:37.649 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right! I can think about changes that happen in my life that I will not say here on the show. But he would ask me, You know, about hey? What's going on right? One of my other sisters. He he knew that that she was with child before she did it. You know he was kind of saying something to her about it, and she was like, what is he talking about? So he paid attention to us, especially the girls, I'm sure the boys, you know, had their their own

00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:45.329 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ideas about my dad as well, but I just know he paid attention to what was really going on with us, and that's important.

00:18:45.600 --> 00:19:03.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: My dad was the kind of person also that when my children's father broke his legs, and I had just started Divinity school. My father was in his seventies. He came up to care for my kids for

00:19:04.100 --> 00:19:11.229 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I I can't remember whether it was just a couple of weeks or a month, but however he came up, how were they?

00:19:11.350 --> 00:19:33.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They? Oh, my gosh! They were 2 and 4, right right and so and so what's important for folks to know is that their dad had to be in recovery, you know, at a at a nursing facility. I was working 2 jobs, and he came up to take care of these 2 year olds, these 4 year olds.

00:19:33.320 --> 00:19:44.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and a a 2 year old and a 4 year old. Excuse me, and I was working all day, and then I go to my private practice at night. And here's what I I just had a memory of.

00:19:45.790 --> 00:19:54.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I cannot tell you, because I lived in an area where I didn't have family and didn't have friends. I remember when I came home one night

00:19:55.070 --> 00:20:00.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and my father came downstairs to just let the garage up for me.

00:20:00.330 --> 00:20:11.079 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I was moved to tears just because my father was with me, and and just loved me so much that he came down to, you know.

00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:19.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to to open the garage for me for me to come in at night. I'll tell you another thing that my father did, thinking about being watchful.

00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:35.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: my father also. So the way that you know my my husband at the time broke his legs, was he? He missed a step. You know he's going to have a step. He missed a step. He fell, and he he broke one leg, and then he.

00:20:35.470 --> 00:20:42.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know. as he was going back up the step, thinking he could put his weight on the other like he broke the second leg.

00:20:45.180 --> 00:20:55.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and hopefully, that doesn't traumatize my listeners. I'm sorry if it does. But do you know what my father did when he got when he came up to visit? He measured the steps.

00:20:55.940 --> 00:21:11.170 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and he said, Oh, I see how he broke his steps. That shows you that, my father and and this was according to the man I was married to, he said your father didn't come up here for me. He came for you because he wanted to know what kind of man you were married to

00:21:11.170 --> 00:21:26.309 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that would fall and break both his legs. He said he wanted to know if somebody had taken a bat at and broke by like he said he was coming to check on his child, and that was significant. And the reason why I think we had that we were having that conversation

00:21:26.540 --> 00:21:31.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: was because my father also chose me to do his eulogy.

00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:44.559 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I was stunned when that happened, and I was talking to you know my then husband about like. Why would he ask me to do this? And so that's when he said, this is who your father is.

00:21:44.830 --> 00:21:46.359 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and he loves you.

00:21:46.530 --> 00:21:58.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and he's really proud of you for what you are doing, and he said, he knows you are the person to do this eulogy, and my father chose me 2 years before he died

00:21:58.700 --> 00:22:05.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to do his eulogy, and then he gave me his eulogy. So that's how special he was, and

00:22:05.310 --> 00:22:19.499 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I will tell you all throughout, and I'll go back to how he gave me the eulogy. But all throughout Divinity School I would call my dad because he was an elder in the church. So it's coming full circle. He knew

00:22:19.580 --> 00:22:23.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: our polity really, really well.

00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:45.799 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I would call my dad when I had a question about polity with the church, I would call him when I was gonna do a sermon and say, Dad, this is what I'm thinking of doing this sermon on. What do you think? Because my dad always read his Bible? He read his Sunday School lesson. He read his book of order because I'm Presbyterian, so we have a book of order, so I knew I could call him for anything.

00:22:45.930 --> 00:22:55.169 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So, because he was a mason. I was doing a women's retreat one day, and I wanted to use the model of building a house.

00:22:55.630 --> 00:23:03.449 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I call my father. And I said, Dad, you know I'm going to be working with these women tell me about building a house.

00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:14.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and he started telling me about building a house, and I thought, I don't. I don't think my dad is getting what I'm saying. But that spirit inside of me said, Listen.

00:23:14.690 --> 00:23:19.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: listen! And he proceeded to tell me all about

00:23:19.650 --> 00:23:21.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: building a house.

00:23:21.910 --> 00:23:25.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and he then talked about our relationships.

00:23:25.790 --> 00:23:35.029 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and how we had to have a solid foundation, and how we had to have reinforcement, and how we had to have a roof, and how you have to be careful who you hang around.

00:23:35.210 --> 00:23:39.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because who you hang around will determine how far you will go in life.

00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:55.949 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And when he was done talking to me. It was for my retreat, but I call my sister, and I said Dad just gave me his eulogy. and that's what I used for his eulogy. This cut this idea of building a house, so

00:23:56.340 --> 00:23:59.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: my dad to me was

00:23:59.590 --> 00:24:07.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: perfectly imperfect, and such a significant part of my life, and who I am as a minister.

00:24:07.840 --> 00:24:12.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but not only as a minister, but as a human being, and as a sole thing

00:24:13.870 --> 00:24:16.699 Angela Todd: I miss those retreat. I have to say

00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:24.610 Angela Todd: so. I'm really glad that you told this story about your dad recognizing that your sister was with a child, because I think

00:24:24.970 --> 00:24:45.529 Angela Todd: especially for dads right? And my dad really paid attention, could mean something really putative and something really controlling and something else. And I, that story seems to me to. Really he had, like a sense, right, maybe spiritual or intuition, or whatever that he really was, tuned into his children.

00:24:46.030 --> 00:24:57.860 Angela Todd: And I'm glad that you said your your system. 10. Because that's a lot of kids to keep track of and be tuned into. I got 2, and I can't handle it. I don't know how they did it.

00:25:01.080 --> 00:25:19.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yeah. And you know, so I just want to do something really quick, because I said my father's name was Lq. Nit. Daniel and I started to to spell the name, but I didn't. And then I've received a message since then to spell it. It's actually E. L. C U. E. It's not an L and a queue. So just for clarity.

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:20.960 Angela Todd: Yeah.

00:25:21.780 --> 00:25:25.270 Angela Todd: so that's wonderful. And

00:25:25.570 --> 00:25:30.890 Angela Todd: she had another thing I was gonna ask. It'll it'll come back to me.

00:25:31.010 --> 00:25:42.940 Angela Todd:  So your dad I did not get to meet your dad, which I feel quite sad about. But I wonder if you'd say something a little more informal about him.

00:25:43.300 --> 00:25:48.610 Angela Todd: What kind of sense of humor did he have? What kind of effect did he have on the day to day?

00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:55.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Oh, my goodness, let me tell you something. So first of all, some people might know I'm a talker

00:25:55.670 --> 00:25:57.659 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that was totally my dad

00:25:57.970 --> 00:26:02.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to like. So, my dad, we would have a choir.

00:26:02.500 --> 00:26:08.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know. Gold. So we go seeing at different churches right church choir would, and he would always have to talk

00:26:08.970 --> 00:26:10.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: before

00:26:10.280 --> 00:26:19.780 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: singing like they would say, Okay, sorry for this church to give their A and B selection. Some folks out there will know what that means, but we is so. My dad would always talk beforehand.

00:26:19.860 --> 00:26:26.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and what I realized was is that in doing so he taught me that my voice matters.

00:26:26.970 --> 00:26:41.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that I could go to any board more room and speak. I could go anywhere and speak because and he also listened to us. So my dad would say, I have learned so much from you girls. That's what he would say to me sometimes as an adult, but as a youngster.

00:26:41.510 --> 00:26:57.539 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: he, you know, if anybody came around to tease us like, you know. Sometimes older folks would do, he would say. Tell him such a such he would tell us how to snap back at them right in a respectful sort of way. My dad also was the kind that he

00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:26.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: did not believe in being the disciplinarian with us. I mean, maybe one or 2 times, but for the most part that was my mother's job, and it was really like that, like help, you know, sort of thing. And so he he! He was definitely more at that kind. You could. You could always go like, if you wanted to, to, to to sit on his lap. You know, when you were little, and know that you were going to be

00:27:26.350 --> 00:27:38.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: loved up. In fact, my father was much more demonstrative than my mother was actually but he was the kind of man as well. That

00:27:38.590 --> 00:27:43.449 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery:  in his own way, was very loving and supportive

00:27:43.630 --> 00:28:07.799 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to my mother in terms of caring for her if she were ever sick, and things like that, you know, on the day to day basis. My mother was the one who who was handling things. I mean right? I mean, she was the one that was keeping the house together, even though she worked outside the home when I got older, but she was the one who was doing that. But my father definitely was teaching us what it was like to be

00:28:07.830 --> 00:28:24.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: a a a good human being right. His my father and my mother were teaching us that, but he modeled that for us, and the ways in which he he talked about people and cared for people, and my father also really really loved his grandchildren

00:28:24.600 --> 00:28:39.589 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right? So, even as an older man, he would care for them when they were just little babies that I'm like. how do you do that? Because he was home every day, and so I had a niece who would drop her child off to him, and my father again was in his seventies.

00:28:39.610 --> 00:28:59.909 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She would drop her baby off her her baby off when she went to work so my dad would keep her, and you know now she thinks she's the favorite grandchild, because her papa loved her so. But that was the beauty is that he could. He could express that love to his grandkids, you know

00:29:00.360 --> 00:29:13.379 Angela Todd: that is so wonderful. and I feel like in this segment. I've learned more about your dad. We've talked a lot about your family, so thank you for sharing that. And I think we're about to go to break again. Is that right?

00:29:13.520 --> 00:29:17.569 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, it says so. We'll be right back with the dismantle right system. Show

00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:57.749 Angela Todd: you're listening to talk radio and yc@wwwtalkradio.and live. C. Now broadcasting 24 h a day.

00:31:21.950 --> 00:31:37.510 Angela Todd: Okay, we're back on the Dismantle racism show. I'm your guest host, Angela Todd. I'm an archivist and historian. and Carolyn one of the things I wanted to say about your dad, who you've been talking about before. The break

00:31:37.830 --> 00:31:48.299 Angela Todd: is I love how much you include him now I am a historian, right? So I love how much you've included him since I've known you, and I feel like I'd know him.

00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:51.720 Angela Todd: even though he passed before we really connected.

00:31:52.020 --> 00:31:55.710 Angela Todd: I think, including him in your book.

00:31:55.830 --> 00:32:06.349 Angela Todd: makes him a timeless figure. Frankly, I encourage everybody to consider the ways that you can bring your ancestors forward with you. You've done a beautiful job.

00:32:06.460 --> 00:32:07.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Okay?

00:32:07.810 --> 00:32:22.169 Angela Todd: So also, in the last segment, we learn more about your dad and I. I kinda liked the informality of you know. I've read your book. I've heard about your dad, and just hearing a little more about him.

00:32:22.560 --> 00:32:27.699 Angela Todd: humanized them even more in my eyes, and I love hearing about

00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:50.729 Angela Todd: your love for him. So one of the things that you did say is that he's perfectly imperfect or imperfectly perfect. How did you say it? I said. Perfectly imperfect. I think I I think I maybe I said it in the book the opposite way. I'm not sure but which we all are right, right, you know, and and Angela for me.

00:32:50.810 --> 00:33:15.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: look! No one is perfect. My dad was not without his flaws. In fact, I think that that was one of the reasons why he got me to do his eulogy because he knows that, or knew that I wouldn't get up there and just say that he's just this great thing, and we've gotten all the things that maybe we would have liked to have been different. And I actually, in my eulogy, talked about

00:33:15.500 --> 00:33:19.399 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that my dad knew that sometimes his home might have been in disrepair.

00:33:19.650 --> 00:33:22.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because, even though

00:33:22.060 --> 00:33:26.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I realize now that I probably had a charmed life.

00:33:26.810 --> 00:33:28.780 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know.

00:33:28.950 --> 00:33:39.469 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: there were times that I I think that, like in any marriage, my parents might have had their difficulties, but their marriage was their marriage, and it was not

00:33:39.660 --> 00:33:56.309 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the father, daughter, relationship right? And I think that it's really important for people to be able to separate those 2 things. And so, while I had a deep, deep love from my mom, and I didn't always appreciate sometimes how my dad showed up

00:33:56.360 --> 00:34:00.229 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in that relationship. It did not

00:34:00.340 --> 00:34:11.069 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: prevent him from being the dad that I needed. And so that's why it's important for me to be able to acknowledge that and to acknowledge that. Look.

00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:23.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: my dad, as I said in the earlier segment, you let something happen to my mom. My dad was right there, and you let something happen to him. You know she was right there. There was no bones about.

00:34:24.350 --> 00:34:26.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know, like, if they were in the hospital.

00:34:26.600 --> 00:34:55.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: especially with when it came to like my mother with my dad and the the doctors knew. This is who you're talking to, not not the child who's there, I mean. And when I say, child, I mean people who are growing children right. They are to help navigate. It didn't matter whether my mother was in her eighties late eighties or not. No, I am the one that you're going to talk to, as it relates to him. Right? So so that's what I mean when I say perfectly and perfect

00:34:55.889 --> 00:35:00.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to to really kind of have folks to acknowledge who

00:35:01.630 --> 00:35:10.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: our ancestors were for us, and to acknowledge that we don't even know the impact of racism.

00:35:11.450 --> 00:35:32.159 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: particularly on people of color, and how it helped them or shape them to show up in the world, or really all of us, because even when we're talking about white people, there's been an impact of racism. And so, speaking of that, one of the things I want to say about my father is for both my father and my mother

00:35:33.270 --> 00:35:44.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: as much as we lived in a racist state. They didn't talk about race a lot. In fact, when I tried to ask both of them about Race.

00:35:45.200 --> 00:35:48.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: there was a I think it was too too painful.

00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:57.069 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Neither of them would really open the door to talk about it at length. The only thing my father ever said to me is, I was

00:35:57.100 --> 00:36:00.859 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: asking him a question about Fanny Lou Hammer, and this was as an adult

00:36:00.870 --> 00:36:13.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: what I was learning just how much she had been brutalized in her efforts to vote. I said, Dad, did you all ever have those issues when you tried to vote?

00:36:13.080 --> 00:36:21.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And he just said to me, no white people were different in this part of town than they were in the Delta right now.

00:36:21.490 --> 00:36:29.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: My father was also cautious, though. because when he came up to care for my children.

00:36:29.590 --> 00:36:42.979 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and that was in Connecticut that was in Connecticut when he came up to care for my children. When you know their dad broke his legs. I was actually going to have a young white girl to come over to help him.

00:36:43.080 --> 00:36:44.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and he said no.

00:36:45.830 --> 00:36:48.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and he said no, because of the history

00:36:48.830 --> 00:36:54.539 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of black men being accused of free, he was very clear with why he was saying No.

00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:59.799 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and my father didn't have a problem with white people on a day to day basis.

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:09.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But he was not going to put himself in a position that someone was going to accuse him of something. And so.

00:37:09.300 --> 00:37:18.969 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: even though we didn't talk about racism on a day to day basis, there were things that they that the people in the neighborhood did to help us know how to navigate.

00:37:19.220 --> 00:37:30.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know whiteness and how to navigate a white society. My older sister tells the story once of where a white woman came to her house because her car had broken down

00:37:30.550 --> 00:37:34.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and she needed a ride to get to the next town or whatever.

00:37:34.950 --> 00:37:41.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and she talked about how both my mom and dad got in that car to go take her where she needed to go, because

00:37:41.390 --> 00:37:48.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they knew when they understood. And so there were things that we could watch them do to navigate

00:37:48.730 --> 00:37:55.449 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: racism. but they never taught us to be subservient even though

00:37:55.500 --> 00:38:13.349 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I heard them say yes or no, sir, to white people until I got to a certain age, and then then that stop, and I think another family member had some My my brother, who was next to me, was like, why do you? Why do you say yes or no? Sort of those people? Right? You don't need to say that. And I think

00:38:13.370 --> 00:38:15.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: whatever conversations they had.

00:38:15.600 --> 00:38:26.589 Angela Todd: I noticed that that it stopped because my brother would say something all the time, which is how generational change happens right? You and your siblings were

00:38:26.640 --> 00:38:34.269 Angela Todd: further down the path of relationship with white people. Or you know how racism hopefully is on its way to being

00:38:34.690 --> 00:38:39.310 Angela Todd: I don't know, abolish. That might be a little hopeful, but anyway. so

00:38:39.530 --> 00:38:49.880 Angela Todd: they were open also to be taught, and I find that beautiful. It's incredible. And and so here's the other thing about my parents

00:38:50.160 --> 00:38:56.209 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's really important. And I know you're going to ask me about these people. But my pastor was a white pastor.

00:38:56.910 --> 00:39:04.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and he was my pastor for years. I mean, he's primarily the only one that that I really really knew.

00:39:05.010 --> 00:39:09.149 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: My parents never talked about him as a white being.

00:39:09.330 --> 00:39:29.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They loved him, they supported him. He would come to our house to like, you know. Back then pastors would go house to house and visit folks come for dinner. He was there when my father died, and my father was 86 but he was on the dais when my father died, even though I was doing the eulogy

00:39:29.060 --> 00:39:33.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery:  And and there was always such love between them.

00:39:33.990 --> 00:39:44.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So they modeled how to be with folks who are different. Then we are racially, ethnically, all of that. And so

00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:52.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I am who I am because of them. And this pastor in particular was to be a pastor

00:39:52.710 --> 00:39:56.169 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in an all black church in Mississippi.

00:39:56.240 --> 00:39:57.919 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in the seventies.

00:40:04.060 --> 00:40:09.099 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because I what I know is people say things in group that they won't say

00:40:09.260 --> 00:40:11.510 Angela Todd: otherwise. Right? Right?

00:40:11.930 --> 00:40:22.219 Angela Todd: So before we move forward, I want to thank you for talking about the imperfections of your dad. I feel like it's extremely healing to know the truth, right

00:40:22.330 --> 00:40:29.790 Angela Todd: as a historian, as your friend, as an anti-racist agitator. thank you for

00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:32.099 Angela Todd: not

00:40:33.200 --> 00:40:37.980 Angela Todd: Pollyanna in us, whatever.

00:40:38.040 --> 00:40:47.560 Angela Todd: So before we move to your pastor, who we will talk about a little later there was another church elder that you've told a lot of stories about.

00:40:47.610 --> 00:41:08.380 Angela Todd: and part of what amazes me about. It is the kind of relationship that he was willing to like an intellectual relationship with a kid about him. So that's Mr. Male. I love love, love, love, love. To this day, Mr. Mail, and Mr. Mail only had a fourth grade education.

00:41:09.100 --> 00:41:11.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but you would never know it.

00:41:11.480 --> 00:41:22.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and he would always, when I would go by and visit him, because my parents will let me just go to his house, and. you know, sit with him and chat with him about things, and

00:41:22.390 --> 00:41:41.889 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: he would ask me things about like. What do you think of Halloween? What does that need to you? Why, Halloween? Well, because some see Halloween as a like an evil holiday right like, if you're Christian, you shouldn't be celebrating Halloween blah blah blah. So he would just, you know, pick questions out to ask me. As a matter of fact.

00:41:42.350 --> 00:41:46.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: he asked me what I thought about Lgbtqi a.

00:41:46.190 --> 00:41:49.199 Angela Todd: You know what he said at the time, though right

00:41:49.230 --> 00:42:05.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: well. He asked me, he says, what do you think about gay people? No, because we weren't using those. But he said he, he! He asked me. Now I'm a teenager, and I'm at his house, and I still can see him sitting in his chair, and I'm sitting in his chair, just 2 of us, and he says, Well, what do you think about

00:42:06.100 --> 00:42:09.109 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: homosexuality? Do you think it's wrong?

00:42:09.410 --> 00:42:16.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Now? I don't know I'm I'm I'm following along with what what I believe the Bible is teaching, and at the time

00:42:16.490 --> 00:42:17.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I said.

00:42:18.130 --> 00:42:22.179 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, I guess as long as that's what the Bible says.

00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.079 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And he said, well.

00:42:24.690 --> 00:42:33.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the Bible says, let man not lay with anything that's unnatural. and, as far as I can tell, that's natural for them

00:42:35.580 --> 00:42:36.809 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: blew my mind.

00:42:37.010 --> 00:42:44.199 Angela Todd: So that's like close. I mean, he is setting you up to be an academic right

00:42:44.290 --> 00:43:00.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and interpretation. And that's thinking for yourself and and and my parents always touch it. So that that's so. The beauty of being Presbyterian is that we do get to think for ourselves. But as a as a man with a fourth grade education

00:43:00.510 --> 00:43:07.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to be able to say he was setting me up for Academia, but he was setting me up to say.

00:43:07.810 --> 00:43:11.120 Angela Todd: Love all people, except all people.

00:43:11.190 --> 00:43:16.469 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: understand that God created all of us, and God didn't make any mistakes with that

00:43:17.230 --> 00:43:21.469 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right. Who's having a conversation in the seventies

00:43:21.910 --> 00:43:23.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: with a youngster

00:43:24.260 --> 00:43:53.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right in segregated Mississippi? He could have been talking to me about anything, but he chose to ask me about that. That was teaching me how to dismantle and to take down systems right there. And so I know. So what people have to understand is that we don't have to take down a system by banging on doors all the time. It starts with one conversation

00:43:53.070 --> 00:44:02.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: at a time, and that's what Mr. Male did for me. It's just Boom just blew my mind with saying that, and so it took me some years

00:44:03.060 --> 00:44:04.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to reconcile it.

00:44:05.090 --> 00:44:23.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but he opened the door for it. Now. I also could ask him any questions I wanted to about the Bible, and didn't feel like he was. Gonna say, why are you asking me those questions? And I know we got to break Angel, I know. But but but but what he would do is, he would say to my parents, your daughter has a lot of questions about Viable.

00:44:23.500 --> 00:44:34.199 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You need to talk to her about it, but they never shut me down, and they allowed me to look at the Bible critically, because if I can look at the Bible critically.

00:44:34.370 --> 00:44:45.509 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I can see what it's saying about one group of people. I can see it about another, and I can also. Then, with shock of all shop, could see the racism in the Bible as well

00:44:45.590 --> 00:44:51.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: without them ever telling me to look for it. I can see where racism shows up.

00:44:51.480 --> 00:45:05.079 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but that's a whole. Another show. Talk about. So we are gonna take a break. Because when we come back, you know I I want to be able to be sure that I include my pastor in our conversation, too. So we'll be right back.

00:47:10.610 --> 00:47:15.819 Angela Todd: Okay, we are back, Angela, for some reason we can't hear you.

00:47:16.020 --> 00:47:19.510 Angela Todd: There you go! There you go!

00:47:19.950 --> 00:47:32.210 Angela Todd: We're back with dismantle racism. I'm your guest host, archivist and historian, Angela Todd. And we're talking with Reverend Dr. Carolyn Curry Avery about

00:47:32.370 --> 00:47:39.490 Angela Todd: the important men that shaped her life information, and when we left off we were talking about Mr. Mel.

00:47:40.290 --> 00:48:01.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and so he was just refreshed, and he was an elder in our church, and yes, a neighbor. He lived down the road a piece, but everybody was connected in our community because everybody knew everybody. We went back and forth to one another's churches all the time. So He eventually was like a grandpa to me.

00:48:01.930 --> 00:48:04.860 So was he an elder at your church then.

00:48:05.050 --> 00:48:18.150 Angela Todd: But there's a lot of fluidity in the where, right? Right. And how did Mr. Mill contribute to what you understood or thought about white folks?

00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:28.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So really. it's very interesting, because I think that it was the modeling of. you know.

00:48:28.830 --> 00:48:40.799 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: going into spaces that were predominantly white and holding your own. And what do I mean by that? It? Anybody knows Presbyterians is a white white denomination.

00:48:41.540 --> 00:48:52.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They are very few churches of color in each what we call sort of region Senate. right or Presbytery.

00:48:53.230 --> 00:49:03.049 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So he would go to Presbytery meetings and be one of only a few, him and my dad and and Mom one of the only few black folks

00:49:03.110 --> 00:49:17.269 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and these meetings. But he had no problems getting up again. Fourth grade education, no problem getting up and speaking about issues. And here's something else I want to say. So I so that both can be really clear.

00:49:17.530 --> 00:49:20.249 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: With that fourth grade education.

00:49:20.510 --> 00:49:41.179 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: He spoke standard English, and I'm not saying that standard English is the end. All be all because it's a power language, and we can get into that or not. But he wasn't using these, that this and those and all of those things he spoke in a way that was very eloquent, and, in fact, my parents always taught us

00:49:41.180 --> 00:49:57.799 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to act like we weren't going to just be in those spaces all of our lives to know that we were going to do more in life than what we were doing in those moments. And so, Mr. Mail, just by the fact the ways in which he interacted with the pastor.

00:49:57.860 --> 00:50:06.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the ways he interacted on the floor, because, though I never went to Presbyteria, I would hear about Mr. Male speaking on the Presbyterian floor.

00:50:07.120 --> 00:50:26.089 Angela Todd: I was gonna ask you about that. And was there discussion about racial difference at the bigger Presbytery meetings because we talked about your mom being really active, pretty high up the hierarchy. So I I wouldn't know because they didn't come home and talk about those things, but what I do know

00:50:26.420 --> 00:50:29.859 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is they

00:50:30.750 --> 00:50:34.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So when my mother died.

00:50:34.530 --> 00:50:53.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: someone from the Presbytery Kane, a woman who had been in some of the the Presbyterian women's meetings, and she talked about how Mom always spoke, and she said she was often very quiet, but when she opened her mouth to speak. We all listen to what she had to say. And so the fact that

00:50:53.780 --> 00:50:59.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: years late this woman is coming saying these glowing things about my mom.

00:50:59.640 --> 00:51:17.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She was a white woman. Yeah, you know what? And the other thing I want to say, and I know you want to ask. We gotta talk about my pastor. It seems like there's a part 2 in here. Angela But but the thing about E to what my father also did, speaking of Lgbtqi a issues

00:51:17.290 --> 00:51:22.259 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: one of my last conversations with my father live conversations.

00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:34.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: There was a in the Presbyterian denomination. There was a conversation about whether days should be ordained as ministers and as officers.

00:51:35.110 --> 00:51:38.579 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So my father, I didn't even bring it up. He brought it up.

00:51:38.740 --> 00:51:41.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: he said. That's nothing but political stuff.

00:51:41.510 --> 00:51:47.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We've been fighting about this since the sixties. It's all politics.

00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:51.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And basically, he was saying, it doesn't matter

00:51:51.880 --> 00:52:04.279 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right. So my my parents were very open. you know, they they didn't go around just talking about stuff all the time. They may not call you to say, Hey, you know this issue that issue, but

00:52:04.360 --> 00:52:09.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they had their ways of introducing a topic to us, saying.

00:52:09.460 --> 00:52:14.349 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know, don't spend your time. you know, arguing about whether

00:52:14.520 --> 00:52:33.419 Angela Todd: that people can be ordained or not, because it's political. It's not about that, right? So what did your family pastor have to say about that? We've got 5 min? I want to try to move us into talk about it. We never, we never talked about it, Angela. We never talked about homosexuality in in the church. We didn't do that at all.

00:52:33.610 --> 00:52:40.019 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: However, what I do think is important that I want to convey in our last few minutes about Robin Wilson.

00:52:40.430 --> 00:52:47.819 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because I loved loved Revel Wilson. Rev. And Wilson models for me something that I didn't even see coming.

00:52:47.970 --> 00:52:56.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Reverend Wilson was a white pastor who pastured a predominantly black church. Only his wife, K.

00:52:56.920 --> 00:53:03.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Just the 2 of them. We trusted him immensely fast. 4 years later.

00:53:03.730 --> 00:53:08.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I'm a black woman pastoring a predominantly white church.

00:53:08.340 --> 00:53:35.449 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I already knew how to move in and out of those spaces because of my life, right in terms of being with white people a lot. But I knew how to pastor a racially different Congregation, because he modeled it for me, and I knew how to show up as my God self, no matter what the Circumstances were, cause church folk all of us got a lot to deal with. That's why I never wanted to become a bastard, because I think church folks are crazy, but

00:53:35.460 --> 00:53:37.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I am a pastor.

00:53:37.470 --> 00:53:43.289 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and he modeled it for me. And so, while we didn't talk about him a lot on this show.

00:53:43.640 --> 00:53:57.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: he's he's my example of how to be a pastor. And then, of course, later on, I met other pastors who helped to shake me too, but when I first began my ministry. I modeled it right after him.

00:53:57.580 --> 00:54:16.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Tell us his full name, and how old you were when he came to your oh, you're asking me to go way back there. Angela. His name? Let's start. Yeah. So his name was Reverend Donald Wilson and Mr. Mail. His name was Melvin Ford, just so that people.

00:54:16.990 --> 00:54:40.169 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I know that on your blog you've written about both of these I have, I have written about them, I talk about, I talk about them in my retreat. I talk because that helps to keep the ancestors alive, and that's how profound they were when I go to any space I bring them into that room with me. I bring my mother, my father, Mr. Mail, and Reverend Wilson, into the room with me.

00:54:40.340 --> 00:54:51.739 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and and others too, but I distinctly talk about them. But for me, Angela, I think for him to agree that he was going to pastor, and all. Black church is phenomenal.

00:54:51.770 --> 00:55:08.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and we're talking Mississippi. So right there is to me about breaking down barriers. What year? Approximately. Oh, oh, oh, Angela! But you know why it matters. I I know it's like the early seventies.

00:55:08.260 --> 00:55:10.940 Angela Todd: and I think he was the pastor.

00:55:11.150 --> 00:55:16.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, really, I know it's the past. Until I went to college he was. He was the pastor. So

00:55:16.550 --> 00:55:19.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: all my formative years he, you know

00:55:20.010 --> 00:55:27.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it was my past, and we loved him so much that when my knees moved to Texas and she got married she called him

00:55:27.420 --> 00:55:38.449 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to come and marry her, and he drove from Mississippi to Texas to marry her, and he was just so honored, and she was like. But you were my pastor all my life. So who else would I get to marry me.

00:55:38.790 --> 00:55:53.020 Angela Todd: you know. So we have about 2 min left. I wonder if you could say specifically something about your pastor. about how you saw him in a racially

00:55:53.490 --> 00:55:57.899 Angela Todd: what's the opposite of charge like in a in a way of like.

00:55:58.090 --> 00:56:07.599 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I I will tell you to me he was the epitome of love, right? He's the epitome of love, and that's all I could say about him. In fact.

00:56:08.530 --> 00:56:21.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yes, we did see his color that he was white, but it wasn't like the predominant thing that this is a white pastor in the black church in his hierarchy, telling us what to do, because he was so humble.

00:56:21.590 --> 00:56:43.389 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so so humble. He always listened to what we had to say, and he was very good at being a mediator when he needed to be a mediator for something. So I just love him, love him, love and love him, death. And I know, Angela, that we have to go because because our time has run out. But

00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:45.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So

00:56:46.030 --> 00:56:53.940 Angela Todd:  I know that everybody is from water from Mississippi.

00:56:54.030 --> 00:57:03.599 Angela Todd: What else do they have in common? Just quick, quick!

00:57:03.770 --> 00:57:29.780 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That's what connects us all, knowing that we are a part of a bigger body, because racism is a spiritual disease, and I think the ways in which they interacted and taught us to care about who you are, know who you are and who you are, and that you just love people based on that, that we are not subservient to anybody. We are all the manifestation of God.

00:57:29.780 --> 00:57:46.989 Angela Todd: So that's what it says in your theme song. We are all connected. The inspirations for me to ask you this question, how, how we are all, how they are all connected. Yes. Well, Angela, I want to thank you. Thank you for being a guest on my show. I

00:57:46.990 --> 00:58:04.779 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: want to thank my listeners. I hope that you got a lot out of it. I thought. I think there are ways in which you can learn how to lead by example, and that actually speaks lot of the words, please stay tuned for the conscious consultant hour with Sam Lieber, with where he helps you to walk through life with the greatest of ease and joy.

00:58:04.780 --> 00:58:09.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Be well, be safe, be encouraged until next time bye, for now.

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