[NEW EPISODE] Race Between Us

Thursdays 11:00am - 12:00pm (EDT)

Episode title:  Race Between Us

WHAT WILL THE AUDIENCE LEARN?

The audience will get a perspective of what reparations mean and the importance of eliminating the description of blackness and whiteness.

EPISODE SUMMARY:

Join Rev. Dr. TLC as she sits down with Brenda Bailey Lett, Project Manager of N'COBRA's Coordinating Reparations Initiative. They will discuss the importance of eliminating the description of blackness and whiteness and how to maintain the focus of dismantling racism. They will delve into the topic of reparations---what does it look like, who should get it and why, and more. Be sure to tune in and don't forget to send in your questions and comments.

‍Tune in for this important conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Segment 2

Segment 3

Segment 4

Transcript

00:00:49.410 --> 00:01:08.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Good morning. Good morning, Good morning, or good afternoon, depending on what time of day you are listening to this broadcast. This is the dismantle racism show. I'm your host to Reverend Dr. Tlc. The goal of our show is to educate eradicate and to dismantle racism

00:01:08.510 --> 00:01:35.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so excited that you are with me today and my guest today. I'm really excited, though, that you join this show because you want to be an individual who advocates for racial equity. You want to be an individual who's concerned about social justice and advocacy, and this is the place to be so that you can hear about what is going on in the world, and you can hear about the ways in which

00:01:35.470 --> 00:01:39.440 you can get involved in the eradicating racism.

00:01:39.650 --> 00:01:56.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: As always. I want to invite you, if you would, to please check out my website@sacredintelligence.com, and learn more about the ways in which you can work with me individually, to learn more about my books or my courses, or whatever it is that you want to know

00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:06.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about working with me and dismantling racism. Please go there and check it out, and then you can also catch episodes of the radio show as well. If you've missed them.

00:02:07.160 --> 00:02:25.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to invite you to tell a friend about the show, to subscribe to the show, to leave your comments, because we are really interested in what you think about the show. If there's a guest that's been on the show that you have questions for please do right. Answer us. We want to hear your thoughts.

00:02:25.710 --> 00:02:35.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I especially want to hear your thoughts about Today's show so excited because we're going to be talking about race between us. We'll also be addressing

00:02:35.890 --> 00:02:49.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: reparations what it is, what it is not so I know that you're curious about reparations. so please tune in again. Ask your questions, and your comments are important to us.

00:02:49.170 --> 00:02:53.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So we're going to start today as always. I want to invite you into this

00:02:53.690 --> 00:03:05.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: sacred place of just centering yourself. So if you would, I want to invite you to close your eyes. That is, of course, unless you're driving. and I want you to began by filling

00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:11.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the grounds or the floor underneath you.

00:03:11.700 --> 00:03:16.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If you're sitting in a chair, I want you to feel that support.

00:03:17.510 --> 00:03:32.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and let that support be a foundation to you. reminding you that you are supported by the universe. you are supported by your sacred source.

00:03:34.380 --> 00:03:37.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you are supported by your divine wisdom.

00:03:39.650 --> 00:03:42.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: your sacred intelligence.

00:03:43.020 --> 00:03:47.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: which is that part of you that helps you to manifest your greatness

00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:53.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: while helping other folks to the manifest, their greatest.

00:03:55.260 --> 00:03:59.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So just breathe in and out, connecting with your breath.

00:04:01.230 --> 00:04:03.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting with your power

00:04:04.700 --> 00:04:07.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting with your life source

00:04:10.530 --> 00:04:14.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting with the folks who are present near you.

00:04:16.930 --> 00:04:20.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting with my voice and my guest today

00:04:23.700 --> 00:04:29.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in and out connected with our shared humanity.

00:04:30.350 --> 00:04:33.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: knowing that what you do matters

00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:39.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in and out.

00:04:41.340 --> 00:04:44.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: acknowledging those who have come before you.

00:04:45.880 --> 00:04:55.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: acknowledging others who are present in the world who have similar goals of social justice and racial equity.

00:04:58.840 --> 00:05:01.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in and out.

00:05:02.110 --> 00:05:05.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: acknowledging your legacy

00:05:06.380 --> 00:05:10.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and the work that you are doing now

00:05:11.540 --> 00:05:14.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that will leave a mark on history

00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that will be a blessing to those who come after.

00:05:22.490 --> 00:05:23.780 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Breathe in

00:05:26.110 --> 00:05:27.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about.

00:05:30.420 --> 00:05:31.780 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in

00:05:34.420 --> 00:05:35.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and out.

00:05:39.690 --> 00:05:41.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Now take a deep breath in.

00:05:43.320 --> 00:05:49.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and as you let it out, know that you have the power to change the status quo

00:05:51.670 --> 00:05:57.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and know that the power of one contributes to the power of community

00:05:59.810 --> 00:06:02.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: contributes to the power of healing

00:06:03.970 --> 00:06:05.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and repair.

00:06:08.430 --> 00:06:10.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and contributes to

00:06:11.640 --> 00:06:13.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: our shared humanity

00:06:15.250 --> 00:06:17.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and equity for all.

00:06:19.220 --> 00:06:23.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Take one more deep breath in side out.

00:06:24.980 --> 00:06:26.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and let's begin

00:06:29.610 --> 00:06:40.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: today. As I said on our show, we are going to be talking about reparations and what it is, what it is not. We hear the word thrown around

00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:48.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: all the time. Folks sometimes have a lot of emotions around this one word of reparations.

00:06:48.570 --> 00:06:56.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Sometimes we confuse it, and we think about that. It only means one thing, a financial reparations after all.

00:06:56.110 --> 00:07:00.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When we were freed, we were promised 40 acres and a mute

00:07:01.750 --> 00:07:04.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that 40 acres and a mule never came.

00:07:04.890 --> 00:07:10.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What does it mean now to be able to have financial reparations?

00:07:11.440 --> 00:07:15.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What would it mean? Is there enough money

00:07:15.710 --> 00:07:20.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that could possibly pay us for what we've been through.

00:07:22.820 --> 00:07:24.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I don't really think so.

00:07:24.450 --> 00:07:29.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but you might have a different opinion about that. But when I think about

00:07:30.190 --> 00:07:32.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the day to day of what

00:07:32.580 --> 00:07:34.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: my ancestors went through.

00:07:36.030 --> 00:07:38.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I don't think that there's even enough money

00:07:39.580 --> 00:07:46.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that would resolve all the pain and the trauma that came with that when I think about

00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:51.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: what I go through on a day to day which was nothing like what they went through

00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:56.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: money isn't the issue. Money can't resolve it.

00:07:56.430 --> 00:08:03.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But I believe that there is a place for reparations, and today's guest is going to be talking about what that looks like.

00:08:03.350 --> 00:08:14.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I want to invite you to open your spirit, to open your mind, to hear a very different conversation around reparations, and to understand

00:08:14.620 --> 00:08:17.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: how you can get involved.

00:08:18.140 --> 00:08:22.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to understand what we need to do to heal

00:08:22.530 --> 00:08:26.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ourselves and to heal one another.

00:08:26.140 --> 00:08:33.429 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to understand why reparations are important for white folks just as well as it is for people of color.

00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:41.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So my guest today is not only going to talk about reparations. She's here to talk about race between us.

00:08:42.010 --> 00:08:43.799 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I'm delighted to have

00:08:43.880 --> 00:08:46.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Brenda Bailey let

00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:48.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Brenda

00:08:48.570 --> 00:08:55.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is the author of I want to tell you. Race between us. Go out and pick up your copy.

00:08:55.170 --> 00:08:57.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You don't know about it. You should.

00:08:57.340 --> 00:09:00.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She co-authored it with Laura Lee Roy.

00:09:01.140 --> 00:09:13.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: race between us, and we' to be talking today a little bit about these descriptions. You've heard of me talk about it before on the show, but the descriptions of blackness and whiteness. And how can we maintain

00:09:13.760 --> 00:09:32.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: a sense of who we are in our shared humanity to focus on dismantling racism. So she's the author of that book. We're going to talk about it, but she's also the project manager of the National Coalition of Blacks for reparation in America, which stands for in Cobra.

00:09:32.520 --> 00:09:39.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She's She's Coordinating Reparations Initiative there, and she's the Board President

00:09:40.130 --> 00:09:47.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of the New Hampshire black Women Health Project. She's so much more than all of that.

00:09:47.820 --> 00:09:52.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But today we're going to focus on that. So I am delighted

00:09:52.220 --> 00:09:59.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to welcome Brenda Bailey. Let to the show today, Brenda. Welcome, welcome to the show.

00:10:02.020 --> 00:10:05.470 Brenda Lett: It is wonderful to be on the show.

00:10:07.930 --> 00:10:09.650 Brenda Lett: and thank you for having me.

00:10:10.180 --> 00:10:11.540 Brenda Lett: you know. Let me just.

00:10:11.620 --> 00:10:18.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It's so interesting. I'm delighted that you chose to be here. Brenda and I have only known each other a very short while.

00:10:18.890 --> 00:10:22.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but I knew that Brenda Brenda is a powerhouse

00:10:22.560 --> 00:10:31.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and a force of reckoning when it comes to justice issues. So I am deeply honored that you would. You would be here with me today

00:10:32.430 --> 00:10:38.030 Brenda Lett: again. Thank you just a little bit about the book that

00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:41.140 Brenda Lett: I co-authored with Laura Lee Roy.

00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:43.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, before you get to your book.

00:10:43.430 --> 00:10:47.620 Brenda Lett: I have a question that I always like to ask. Alright, ask a question.

00:10:48.280 --> 00:10:53.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I and plus, I know we're going to come up on a break real soon is. So I I want to get your.

00:10:53.700 --> 00:10:56.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I wanted you to have a full time to talk about that.

00:10:57.340 --> 00:11:02.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So, Brenda, you have been doing the work of justice

00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:03.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: for a long time.

00:11:04.940 --> 00:11:09.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And what, I wonder? A question that I ask many of my guests

00:11:10.220 --> 00:11:10.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is

00:11:11.210 --> 00:11:18.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: what sustained you. Do you have a spiritual practice or something that connects you

00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:26.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in a way that says I can't give up on doing this work. So what keeps you going?

00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:29.150 Brenda Lett: Well, yeah, I do.

00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:33.110 Brenda Lett: Well, of course, now would be my grandchildren.

00:11:33.510 --> 00:11:36.310 Brenda Lett: and then, of course, my children.

00:11:36.780 --> 00:11:40.230 Brenda Lett: But it's really my sister.

00:11:40.340 --> 00:11:45.550 Brenda Lett: I have a sister who has cerebral palsy, who was born in 19

00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:53.080 Brenda Lett: 67. Excuse me, 62, and she's still living. She never was able to walk or talk.

00:11:53.630 --> 00:11:55.900 Brenda Lett: and so she

00:11:56.170 --> 00:12:03.590 Brenda Lett: is my inspiration. because not only is she my sister. she's a real human being.

00:12:03.680 --> 00:12:10.910 Brenda Lett: and sometimes in our community we have the tendency to not accept people that may look a little different.

00:12:12.900 --> 00:12:15.000 Brenda Lett: And so that is what

00:12:16.610 --> 00:12:19.150 Brenda Lett: helps me to continue to go off.

00:12:19.180 --> 00:12:20.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Know that

00:12:21.180 --> 00:12:23.250 Brenda Lett: everyone deserves love.

00:12:23.280 --> 00:12:33.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Hmm. You know, in in my book on Dismantling Racism. I start by saying: in order to do the work of social justice.

00:12:33.780 --> 00:12:36.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we have to have a sacred motive.

00:12:36.730 --> 00:12:39.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We have to know what our why is.

00:12:39.350 --> 00:12:45.170 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and you've identified that. Why, that Why, is always something that's bigger than us.

00:12:45.430 --> 00:12:51.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I talked about that like like the work that we do really isn't about us at all, is it

00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:54.460 Brenda Lett: at the end of the day? No.

00:12:54.570 --> 00:13:10.490 Brenda Lett: So one of the things I did. I went to the University of Dubuque. and I had a double major in special LED in psychology. And again, the special LED is what drove me my sisters, what drove me to do special education.

00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:19.270 Brenda Lett: But what I found is again. a lot of people. Are not that friendly towards people who are different.

00:13:19.290 --> 00:13:30.810 Brenda Lett: And again, that's one of the things that it inspires me and encourages me to continue so. Then, when you look at people of African descent.

00:13:31.980 --> 00:13:37.170 Brenda Lett: it's a very similar story. But just imagine what is like

00:13:37.330 --> 00:13:40.480 Brenda Lett: for families who may have

00:13:40.650 --> 00:13:45.570 Brenda Lett: people who are developmentally delayed in their families.

00:13:45.620 --> 00:13:51.070 Brenda Lett: The shame sometimes that's even associated with being a person of African descent.

00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:53.260 Brenda Lett: and then add on

00:13:53.270 --> 00:13:57.520 Brenda Lett: a disability. So it's been

00:13:57.530 --> 00:14:01.530 Brenda Lett: one of the things that has motivated me even till today.

00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:04.660 Brenda Lett: and my sister is 61 years old.

00:14:04.710 --> 00:14:13.840 Brenda Lett: My mother took care of her until she died, and now my brother takes care of her. So that's what motivates me

00:14:13.910 --> 00:14:20.360 Brenda Lett: that so it motivates you. I know we're gonna have to take a really quick break. But like

00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:32.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: what what helps you, though on the hard days do you have? Do you have a a self care, practice, or spiritual practice, or or support whatever it may be. What

00:14:32.580 --> 00:14:39.740 Brenda Lett: you know, i'm working on. No at 24, 7, yeah, i'm working on that. But I would. I would then say, God.

00:14:39.950 --> 00:14:42.740 Brenda Lett: and whatever God is to

00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:47.040 Brenda Lett: everyone else, God for me is a spirit

00:14:47.050 --> 00:14:49.760 Brenda Lett: and an energy that gives me

00:14:49.940 --> 00:14:55.000 Brenda Lett: what I need to continue so. It is the spirit.

00:14:55.260 --> 00:15:06.970 Brenda Lett: I would dare say it's the Holy Spirit, because it is the Holy Spirit of doing something good in this basis. Sometimes we don't always do the good things, but we have to tap.

00:15:06.970 --> 00:15:23.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We have to tap back into that right. That's right. That's right. But, Brendan, now I'm going to tell you that we have. Take it. I don't. I don't. I know you enough to tell this right so you said you. You said you need. You gotta get better at it.

00:15:23.290 --> 00:15:25.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We've met in Puerto Rico.

00:15:26.050 --> 00:15:36.970 Brenda Lett: Yes, we did. And what were you doing in Puerto Rico. She was working. She was working in Puerto Rico, because that's how she committed She is to doing this work, and and

00:15:36.980 --> 00:15:46.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: at the same time it's also important for us to refuel. So i'm I'm really kind of teasing you, but at the same time saying, hey.

00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:52.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we we're in Puerto Rico. We we we we we did have a good time

00:15:53.160 --> 00:15:56.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: talking and sharing there, but I made a commitment that when I went.

00:15:57.450 --> 00:16:00.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but no work, and there's a place for us

00:16:00.750 --> 00:16:06.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to do the advocacy, and there's a place for us to care for ourselves. So we have to take a quick break.

00:16:06.710 --> 00:16:14.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It will be right back it. If Brenda wants to time in to defend herself, she can, but otherwise I need to defend it.

00:16:14.520 --> 00:16:37.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: No, no, you don't. You don't need to defend yourself. Thank you. Thank you so much. You don't because I know that you receive what i'm saying in in pure love. And so when we come back, though I do want to hear about race between us. And so, right back with the dispensal racism show. I'm your host, the Reverend Dr. Tlc.

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00:18:13.620 --> 00:18:14.540 Christian.

00:18:16.420 --> 00:18:21.900 you're listening to talk radio, Nyc: uplift, educate and power

00:18:23.080 --> 00:18:24.260 the

00:18:37.060 --> 00:18:37.670 her

00:18:52.050 --> 00:18:59.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with the dismantle racism. Show my guest today is Brenda Bailey. Let Brenda before our

00:18:59.870 --> 00:19:01.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: commercial.

00:19:01.330 --> 00:19:17.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We were talking about your book race between us. If people have not gotten a copy of race between us. I want to invite you. Please make sure you do get a copy of the book and Brunter you co-wrote this book with Laura Lee Roy, who is a white woman.

00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:25.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: tell us, before getting into the book necessarily tell us a little bit about what inspired you

00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:28.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to co-author this book with her

00:19:28.940 --> 00:19:38.740 Brenda Lett: There was pretty much one incident: Laura Lee was experiencing. We we worked at the New Hampshire State Prison for men at that time.

00:19:39.100 --> 00:19:45.690 Brenda Lett: and she was experiencing a lot of negative.

00:19:46.760 --> 00:19:55.240 Brenda Lett: Well, she was experiencing a lot of negative things. So what ends up happening a lot of times with Europeans

00:19:55.310 --> 00:20:03.130 Brenda Lett: is that they'll come and find a person of African descent because they figure you understand their pain.

00:20:03.310 --> 00:20:15.190 Brenda Lett: So she came, and she said, listen. They're treating me really unfair to describe what was happening, and I said, yeah, they are doing that. They are treating you unfair.

00:20:15.410 --> 00:20:20.000 Brenda Lett: I said. However, that line for unfair treatment starts behind me.

00:20:20.420 --> 00:20:24.720 Brenda Lett: and we just became fast friends after that.

00:20:24.800 --> 00:20:29.510 Brenda Lett: and then we noticed that we had a lot of similarities. We were

00:20:29.670 --> 00:20:40.250 Brenda Lett: both very much close to our fathers. We were a family of 6. I was the oldest. She was the youngest

00:20:40.620 --> 00:20:44.310 Brenda Lett: we had brothers who had passed.

00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:50.700 Brenda Lett: and so we had a lot of similarities, and but we ended up coming

00:20:50.770 --> 00:20:52.710 Brenda Lett: to realize is that

00:20:52.930 --> 00:20:55.230 Brenda Lett: she really wasn't white.

00:20:55.360 --> 00:21:02.990 Brenda Lett: because, as we know, the color white is the void of color at all right.

00:21:03.340 --> 00:21:05.990 Brenda Lett: and she was more pink.

00:21:06.330 --> 00:21:09.640 Brenda Lett: and I wasn't black. I was more brown.

00:21:09.730 --> 00:21:15.420 Brenda Lett: so it became an issue around. We were just really people.

00:21:15.470 --> 00:21:21.850 Brenda Lett: And the more and more we we talked and engaged we realized that we had a lot more in common.

00:21:22.100 --> 00:21:29.750 Brenda Lett: Then we did not because basically we were. We were human beings both in marriages.

00:21:29.860 --> 00:21:41.550 Brenda Lett: As I said, both had siblings, and both worked at a prison. She was a teacher, and I was a counselor at the time.

00:21:41.560 --> 00:21:42.590 Brenda Lett: so

00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:50.450 Brenda Lett: we just became fast friends, and we are friends today. I consider her very much part of my family

00:21:50.620 --> 00:21:53.060 Brenda Lett: in the sense of a community.

00:21:53.610 --> 00:22:02.070 Brenda Lett: So so we decided to no longer use those terms of black and white. And I don't really use those today a lot

00:22:02.360 --> 00:22:08.590 Brenda Lett: because one of the things that I've observed about this concept of white

00:22:09.860 --> 00:22:11.780 Brenda Lett: is that somehow

00:22:12.020 --> 00:22:24.670 Brenda Lett: people of European descent get a real pride out of saying they're white. It's like It's some kind of prize, or it, or something. And then, when they want to talk about

00:22:25.250 --> 00:22:27.550 Brenda Lett: me. they want to

00:22:27.800 --> 00:22:32.230 Brenda Lett: characterized me as being black as if, though that's like a bad thing.

00:22:32.360 --> 00:22:35.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, but of course, when you look it up in the dictionary.

00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:43.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: if you look up the word black, everything about black is negative. That is correct. So so. And that's strategic.

00:22:44.360 --> 00:22:53.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If you think about, you know. And what we've done is people of African descent. We brought a pride to it.

00:22:53.860 --> 00:23:03.840 Brenda Lett: James Brown, Atlanta, right? So we we we brought, you know. We brought a lot of positive energy to

00:23:04.300 --> 00:23:07.390 Brenda Lett: that characterization. However.

00:23:07.650 --> 00:23:10.240 Brenda Lett: I just think eventually we're going to have to

00:23:10.460 --> 00:23:23.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: get away from those. So it's interesting when we talk about getting away from those descriptions, and because we know that race is a social construct.

00:23:23.540 --> 00:23:26.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And at the same time, though

00:23:27.470 --> 00:23:32.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: some things are just what they are in terms of identifying

00:23:32.540 --> 00:23:34.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: us, culturally

00:23:34.210 --> 00:23:37.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: or or identifying. Like you, said I.

00:23:37.580 --> 00:23:40.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Listen. When I come back I want to be a black person

00:23:40.590 --> 00:23:52.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because I love my culture. I love what I bring it doesn't mean I can't experience it in any others. I just know. I just know this one, but probably in some other lifetime I was something something else, anyway.

00:23:53.620 --> 00:23:58.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and so we have to find ways. And i'm wondering if you know as you're

00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:09.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: as you all have written this book. What then? Do you want people to take away. When you say we have to find something other than these descriptors. Tell us

00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:12.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: how your book addresses that issue.

00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:14.090 Brenda Lett: Well.

00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:22.660 Brenda Lett: the book then starts. The book is a back and forth right? Laura Lee gives a perspective. I give a perspective.

00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:23.840 Brenda Lett: and what

00:24:23.930 --> 00:24:32.480 Brenda Lett: Not only do I, i'm, inspired by my sister. But i'm also inspired by the Angus Osava. Right? Yeah.

00:24:32.690 --> 00:24:35.000 Brenda Lett: The 7 Principles

00:24:35.300 --> 00:24:41.730 Brenda Lett: right of blackness. So if we look at those principles, I'm inspired by unity.

00:24:41.750 --> 00:24:49.960 Brenda Lett: Yeah, Moja i'm. Inspired by self-determination, Kuji Chakalia i'm inspired by collective work and responsibility.

00:24:50.600 --> 00:24:51.620 Brenda Lett: Ojima

00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:59.620 Brenda Lett: cooperative economics, booja Ma so i'm inspired by all of those principles particularly

00:24:59.950 --> 00:25:04.420 Brenda Lett: Imani. which is great. Ruben's faith. Yeah, which is faith.

00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:18.570 Brenda Lett: But even though which is purpose because you're living out your purpose. Exactly. So. So so you and then we just told you how to the 7 principles of quasi. So that's right. And so and so what we want to do just like with

00:25:18.760 --> 00:25:31.940 Brenda Lett: Christmas. We want to be able to live out those positive aspects of what those holidays bring. And so over the course of the year

00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:39.030 Brenda Lett: we want to live out there in Goose Osama. So that is one of the other areas that I really work real hard

00:25:39.080 --> 00:25:47.940 Brenda Lett: to see if I can live by those principles as well. So that was one of the things that she and I talked about. She happens to be a Catholic.

00:25:48.090 --> 00:25:57.580 Brenda Lett: So during the time of the Hurricane Katrina. So when we wrote the book, of course, as you know, you got to do some research. So we went down to New Orleans

00:25:57.760 --> 00:26:04.710 Brenda Lett: to the lower line. and you know we were able to experience a lot of things together.

00:26:04.930 --> 00:26:14.910 Brenda Lett: and that also helped bond us as being human beings and being able to see things differently, but not as a person

00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:23.860 Brenda Lett: of European descent or of African descent, but just as a person, and that became more clear and clearer to me.

00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:42.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I grew up through that process. So here I what I hear you saying throughout all of this, from even the moment that you started talking about how you all came to write this book is that there's a relationship. First of all, there was a relationship between the 2 of you.

00:26:42.740 --> 00:27:01.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and that's important, because a lot of times white people in particular want to come and start asking us questions, and you know, connect to we we're if we're not connected. Don't. Just come pick my brain, or whatever like come for the human experience, Develop that relationship, and we'll tell you whatever it is that you need to know absolutely.

00:27:01.650 --> 00:27:05.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But the other thing I heard you say is, you gave her a response

00:27:06.250 --> 00:27:08.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that she could have very easily gotten

00:27:09.090 --> 00:27:26.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: defensive about. That is correct, but cause you because you's like honey, and this and the line is back here. But she saw something, and that's what I want to particularly encourage white people to do is to but just be open to listen to the experience.

00:27:26.360 --> 00:27:43.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right now. We do know that oppression has no hierarchy. Yes, and and that is important for us. So so you could say to her, Listen, we've all been treated unfairly. And now how we're going to work this out together. So the 2 of you developed a relationship.

00:27:44.620 --> 00:27:50.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The 2 of you were also willing to see the others perspective, because when

00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:59.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when we, as black folks are having conversations with white folks, and then I'm just gonna say black, because

00:28:01.180 --> 00:28:04.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I have to be open to what they are saying.

00:28:05.040 --> 00:28:20.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because it can't just be through my lens only, and I don't hear what it is that you're saying. We will never be able to extend the conversation. We'll never be able to walk across any line if i'm just so stuck on my wounds.

00:28:20.860 --> 00:28:22.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: My.

00:28:22.450 --> 00:28:32.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: how will I help you to understand what is like for me on a day to day basis. If I can't even hear what it's like for you as a white person.

00:28:32.530 --> 00:28:38.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because everything is not sugar and candy for white people, either as a relationship.

00:28:38.870 --> 00:28:44.980 Brenda Lett: So then, we have to connect on a human level the title of the book.

00:28:45.010 --> 00:28:55.440 Brenda Lett: Racism is a human experience where Europeans experienced it as well. So if we think about the people that were hanging brothers and sisters right

00:28:55.860 --> 00:29:08.510 Brenda Lett: so normally, what we see is a picture of the people hanging from the truth. But what we don't see is the people that was doing the hanging. Imagine the emotion

00:29:08.970 --> 00:29:12.510 Brenda Lett: and the adrenaline that was going through that person's

00:29:12.890 --> 00:29:14.230 Brenda Lett: spirit

00:29:15.060 --> 00:29:23.590 Brenda Lett: to be doing something like that, the cutting off of, and that kind of thing, what is going on up there

00:29:23.650 --> 00:29:31.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in your spirit, in your soul as a human being. And so it and it's like.

00:29:31.130 --> 00:29:33.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What what are you?

00:29:33.820 --> 00:29:48.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What what do you devoid of it for me to devoid of the god in you right, because that's where I go with the sacred part. You're devoid of that. But let's just talk about this for a minute. I know we have to go to break. But but when I have thought about those lenses.

00:29:49.890 --> 00:30:03.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I've also thought about what is it doing to the people who are just a part of the mob, because that is the Zeitgeist of the time, and they are having to watch that. What about those people who are standing there going. Wait a minute. I don't.

00:30:03.280 --> 00:30:08.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: People want to be a part of this, but I gotta be a part of this to save my skin or what about the children.

00:30:08.990 --> 00:30:13.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yeah, but their trauma associated with that. Because, let me tell you.

00:30:14.510 --> 00:30:27.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: even when you see an animal get hurt you you you're like, oh, My gosh! So I even think about that trauma. I think about the people

00:30:28.280 --> 00:30:38.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when we see the photos of those white people who we're yelling and screaming at Ruby Bridges or the little rotten I think about where those people are today.

00:30:38.990 --> 00:30:47.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I'm going, man, you are down in history with that on your face. And what have you had to overcome

00:30:47.080 --> 00:30:48.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: for you

00:30:48.550 --> 00:30:53.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to forgive yourself and to get?

00:30:53.460 --> 00:31:00.500 Brenda Lett: You have to do some work, and you and that's where we are with this thing. We have to do the work

00:31:00.600 --> 00:31:01.990 Brenda Lett: right

00:31:02.050 --> 00:31:20.170 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right. He would win Puerto Rico. We still had to do the work. Well, we listen. We got to work, but we sometimes got to take a break, and we have to take a break right now for a commercial break. But we will be right back with my guest today. Brenda Bailey let on the dismantled racism. So we'll be right back.

00:31:21.840 --> 00:31:36.160 Are you passionate about the conversation around racism? Hi i'm Reverend Dr. Tlc. Host of the Dismantle Racism show which airs every Thursday at 11 a. M. Eastern on talk radio in wise

00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:48.690 join me and my amazing guest as we discussed ways to uncover, dismantle and eradicate racism. That's Thursdays at 110'clock a. M. On talk radio and Nyc.

00:31:51.350 --> 00:32:19.150 In that moment you may have many unanswered questions regarding your health. Are you looking to live a healthier lifestyle? Do you have a desire to learn more about mental health, and enhance your quality of life. Or do you just want to participate in self-understanding and awareness? I'm Frank R. Harrison Host of Frank about health, and each Thursday I will tackle these questions and work to enlighten you. Tune in everything at 5 P. M. On talk, radio and Nyc. And I will be frank about help to advocate for all of us

00:32:24.420 --> 00:32:48.320 everybody. It's Tommy deed and non-profit sector connector coming at you from my adding each week here on talk radio and Nyc I host the program. Philanthropy and focus nonprofits impact us each and every day, and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their story. Listen. Each week at 10 a. M. Eastern standing time right here on talk radio, Dot, N Myc.

00:32:49.530 --> 00:32:59.970 You're listening to talk radio and Yc. At Www: talk, radio and live, c. Now broadcasting 24 h a day.

00:33:00.500 --> 00:33:01.470 The

00:33:22.180 --> 00:33:30.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with the dismantle. Racism show before the break. We were talking about Brenda's book race between us at

00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:36.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it's a human experience. I love that. You say that here, because ultimately

00:33:37.020 --> 00:33:46.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I believe that we are all divine beings absolutely. We're just having this human experience, and if we could call ourselves back to that.

00:33:47.250 --> 00:33:49.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: back to that sacred part of us.

00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:56.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we could get rid of racism, because ultimately it's about spreading love to one another. Right?

00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:57.400 Brenda Lett: That's true.

00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:00.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But I want to shift us, if we could.

00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:14.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to this conversation about reparations, because I want to make sure that we have enough time to cover that, and anytime you want to float back and forth to your book. Please do that as well. But

00:34:16.600 --> 00:34:27.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: at the beginning of the show. I talked about us often, thinking about reparations as a financial thing, and I made the comment that really you can't

00:34:27.670 --> 00:34:37.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you? You really can't even pay us enough for the everyday experiences that we go through. And sometimes, as people of color.

00:34:37.949 --> 00:34:50.449 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: not sometimes really all the time like we're thinking about race, even in the back of our minds, even when we're out having a good time about things. And so there's no amount of money

00:34:51.330 --> 00:35:04.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that can really address that right. We have lived in a country that's been built on racism and white supremacy. and it will take a while for us to even deal

00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:13.170 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: with as individuals, our own trauma around it, with society to deal with how we are treated.

00:35:13.750 --> 00:35:21.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so it's important for us to go through this process of having conversations that help us to heal

00:35:22.060 --> 00:35:32.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and reparations. It's one of those conversations. so i'd like to before we even get too much into what does it look like, and all of that?

00:35:33.140 --> 00:35:43.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Tell us what you mean when you say the word reparations. because for any of us it could mean something completely different. So

00:35:43.180 --> 00:35:44.400 Brenda Lett: but yeah.

00:35:44.600 --> 00:35:49.520 Brenda Lett: for for me, reparations is really about repair.

00:35:49.600 --> 00:35:54.930 Brenda Lett: So it's really about repair of the human spirit.

00:35:55.680 --> 00:35:58.600 Brenda Lett: So we know that we

00:35:58.720 --> 00:36:07.340 Brenda Lett: often are traumatized. We can be traumatized by an accident if we hurt ourselves, break a leg or or something like that.

00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:16.230 Brenda Lett: So trauma is very much a part of life. But when you're traumatized because of the way you were born.

00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:21.950 Brenda Lett: that's something that goes a little bit more deeper. and

00:36:24.270 --> 00:36:29.610 Brenda Lett: breaking an arm or something. So for me reparation means repair.

00:36:29.660 --> 00:36:34.740 Brenda Lett: and as you shared, I am a a member of in Cobra.

00:36:34.950 --> 00:36:43.220 Brenda Lett: I'm actually a life member. and I am involved in a project. Or we're looking at coordinating reparations.

00:36:43.330 --> 00:36:54.180 Brenda Lett: And in order to do that, what I found is, it makes sense for us to look at it from the perspective of then cobra, first in terms of I mean, how can you coordinate

00:36:54.750 --> 00:36:56.320 Brenda Lett: until you figure out

00:36:56.580 --> 00:37:10.150 Brenda Lett: what's going on? You can't coordinate until you know what's happening. So we we're taking some time to do that type of research. And so we have 5 injury areas and 5

00:37:10.160 --> 00:37:12.210 Brenda Lett: forms of repair.

00:37:12.890 --> 00:37:22.030 Brenda Lett: The injury. Areas are people who and nationhood. And that's basically around the destruction of our culture

00:37:22.270 --> 00:37:29.300 Brenda Lett: of our the way we dress the full we ate how we worship.

00:37:29.410 --> 00:37:35.670 Brenda Lett: It was our basic way of living. We were mining our own business where we were

00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:42.120 Brenda Lett: doing our own thing as human beings, so that was taken from us, and that was an that's an injury.

00:37:42.220 --> 00:37:49.580 Brenda Lett: One form of dealing with the repair on that is to restore.

00:37:49.720 --> 00:37:59.070 Brenda Lett: Restore us to our human selves, and that's why for me the black thing doesn't work that. Well, because there is no black land.

00:37:59.150 --> 00:38:00.820 Brenda Lett: you know they.

00:38:00.950 --> 00:38:13.260 Brenda Lett: But anyway, so you asking for my perspective, i'm sure, and then another, before before you go to your next injury. Yes, ma'am.

00:38:15.500 --> 00:38:32.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so there's there's something that you said in terms of taking a look at in Cobra itself, which is the for for those of you who are just joining us in cobra stands for the national coalition of blacks for reparations in America.

00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:43.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and and I heard you say that you have to take a look within yourself. So it sounds to me that as we talk about this word repair

00:38:43.260 --> 00:38:50.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that we've got our own healing that we need to do as well, because we've been stripped of something.

00:38:50.360 --> 00:39:00.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and we've also bought into something else right, so we've been stripped of it. We've been brought it. We bought into something else. and I hear you saying that if we're going to repair.

00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:11.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we've got to repair that which was lost within us, as it relates to our culture, as it relates to. You know our spirituality, so is that

00:39:11.830 --> 00:39:18.100 Brenda Lett: what you're talking about. Yes, yes, ma'am, that's exactly what I'm talking about. We have to do our own

00:39:18.260 --> 00:39:32.780 Brenda Lett: internal reparations. We cannot expect others any others to do that for us. That's why it's so important and so critical for us to develop the kind of unity emoji.

00:39:32.810 --> 00:39:36.770 Brenda Lett: so that we can learn how to work together. We don't have to like each other

00:39:36.790 --> 00:39:51.780 Brenda Lett: all the time, but we need to learn how to work together right so. But just to go through the other injury areas. We have 5 of them, the other one that another one is education, as you know. We would deny the right

00:39:51.790 --> 00:39:56.870 Brenda Lett: for education, and it was a crime. It was a crime for a people

00:39:56.890 --> 00:40:06.540 Brenda Lett: to, for the enslaved, for enslaved answers to be taught to learn, and anyone who tried to teach them. That includes Europeans who tried to teach them

00:40:07.080 --> 00:40:20.560 Brenda Lett: so a form of repair would be satisfaction that we need to have. We we need to be re-educated, not just as a. P. Not just as African people, but people period.

00:40:21.160 --> 00:40:23.910 Brenda Lett: One of the other ones is health.

00:40:23.970 --> 00:40:39.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So, of course, of course, i'm going to stop you between each one. Do your show, because when I hear you talk about the repair of education, that one of the ways that we repair is to know that

00:40:39.950 --> 00:40:51.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we actually education itself. We we were one of the first, if I'm. Not mistaken, University of Tempo 2 was one of the first universities

00:40:51.630 --> 00:40:54.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to offer education, and there were.

00:40:54.890 --> 00:41:07.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: how many different languages Was it like 22 different languages, or something spoken there? So our part of our own repair is to become educated to know that we are not

00:41:07.090 --> 00:41:14.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ignorant or dumb people. There's something that that society tells us about ourselves.

00:41:14.090 --> 00:41:23.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But really, when we're speaking in a certain way. We're not talking white where you don't like brick. We we gotta get out of that whole thing, too.

00:41:23.240 --> 00:41:25.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We are. Look

00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:40.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the fact that our language was stripped from us when we got over here, and we still figured out how to communicate with one another, we still figure it out, even if you think in the form of

00:41:40.460 --> 00:41:45.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of music, for instance, which we use the drums to communicate in our native land

00:41:46.930 --> 00:41:57.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that was stripped from us when we came here. But what did we do? We developed something called Hammond, where you could use the body to be able to. You see, if we were to like. Look at

00:41:57.910 --> 00:42:04.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: all of those wonderful things about us, and how we've overcome. That's a part of the reparations that

00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:15.980 Brenda Lett: absolutely and absolutely we use our creativity or our cooper in order to do that. So, of course, health we know about the Tuskegee

00:42:16.090 --> 00:42:25.970 Brenda Lett: situation with the syphilis and and all of that, and even fast forward to. Now many of us feel uncomfortable going to the doctor.

00:42:26.310 --> 00:42:31.520 Brenda Lett: because sometimes we either misdiagnosed or they won't even listen to

00:42:31.570 --> 00:42:40.640 Brenda Lett: what we're telling them about our own bodies. So a form of repair there has to be rehabilitation

00:42:40.650 --> 00:42:48.860 Brenda Lett: where they now begin to. All of this really goes back to being treated like a human being. That's that's that's it.

00:42:48.870 --> 00:43:05.570 Brenda Lett: And then criminal punishment, which is again where I just wanna make sure that you are saying such powerful stuff. I just want to make sure that people

00:43:05.610 --> 00:43:07.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: can really absorb

00:43:07.670 --> 00:43:15.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: what you're saying. And then, plus, we're going to have to go to break in just a minute, so you can come back and talk about your other 2 after that. But but like when I think about

00:43:16.740 --> 00:43:20.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: our reparations like the self advocacy

00:43:20.790 --> 00:43:39.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: for us to learn how to advocate for our sales. Sometimes we have to teach the health care practitioner. Now we are talking about what we need to do for reparations. But please white people who are listening to this as well. There are lessons in here for you in terms of how

00:43:39.820 --> 00:43:49.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you can provide reparations for us in terms of the repair work. So if you are a doctor and you're listening to this, and we're talking about health care disparities.

00:43:49.970 --> 00:44:06.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Hear us when we say that we are treated differently. When we come into your office. You may be unconscious about how you're treating us. You may do what my doctor said when I mentioned something about race, and she said, I don't get into that political stuff, and i'm like My body is not political.

00:44:06.380 --> 00:44:15.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but you have to. If you're treating me, you have to know the daily stressors that i'm under. So please no reparations. The repair work

00:44:15.540 --> 00:44:18.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: begins in the listening

00:44:18.660 --> 00:44:19.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right

00:44:19.650 --> 00:44:25.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: us listening to our bodies and teaching other people how to listen to us. And then for other folks to listen.

00:44:26.180 --> 00:44:38.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Brenda, we have to take a quick break, and when we come back I want you to talk about your other 2 pillars of reparations as we wrap up the show. In just a few minutes we'll be right back.

00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:39.850 www.TalkRadio.nyc: That's what.

00:44:41.830 --> 00:45:05.730 Hey, everybody! It's Tommy Deed a nonprofit sector connector coming at you from my attic each week here on top radio and Nyc. I hosted program for land, but in focus non-profits impact us each and every day and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their story. Listen each week at 10 a. M. Eastern standard time until 11 a. M. Is from standing time right here on talk radio and myc

00:45:06.530 --> 00:45:34.550 www.TalkRadio.nyc: in a post- movement world. You may have many unanswered questions regarding your health. Are you looking to live a healthier lifestyle? Do you have a desire to learn more about mental health and enhance your quality of life? Or do you just want to participate in self-understanding and awareness? I'm. Frank R. Harrison host of Frank about health, and each Thursday I will tackle these questions and work to enlighten you. Tune in every Thursday 5 P. M. On talk radio and Nyc. And I will be frank about help to advocate for all of us.

00:45:37.060 --> 00:45:44.480 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Are you a conscious Co-creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness.

00:45:44.530 --> 00:46:08.360 I'm. Sam Leibowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen. Live at our new time on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern time. That's the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. Thursday's 12 noon on talk radio and nyc

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00:46:28.720 --> 00:46:29.290 from

00:46:43.790 --> 00:46:54.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with this the dismantle racism show my guest today is Brenda Bailey. She's been giving us such good wisdom around reparations. And

00:46:54.820 --> 00:46:58.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Brenda, there were 2 more, I think.

00:46:58.310 --> 00:47:09.020 Brenda Lett: rooms that you call them that you wanted to share with us. So so please tell us about the criminal punishment which you started to share a little bit.

00:47:09.020 --> 00:47:20.470 Brenda Lett: and and we refer to them as injuries, but they are wounds. Okay? No, no, no, you know there's a lot of different words. So tell me, tell me, tell me the difference. Just so.

00:47:20.660 --> 00:47:23.730 Brenda Lett: Yes, of course I can tell you a difference.

00:47:26.980 --> 00:47:43.160 Brenda Lett: I'm had to think about it. Okay, all right, because what i'm doing is, i'm just sharing with you in Covid's position. Okay, what we say Won't: When you say room, a wound is very similar to an injury, and Andrea similar to a to a. So there are 2 words that mean

00:47:43.580 --> 00:47:56.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: similar thing. Okay, all right, because some people are very, you know. There, there's a reason why they choose to use certain things. So I just was wondering. But let's let's take the time, then, to

00:47:56.580 --> 00:48:10.590 Brenda Lett: share the criminal punishment that you started to share absolutely and again, these in Covid 5 injury areas. So the criminal punishment was really the enslavement of African people

00:48:10.630 --> 00:48:16.420 Brenda Lett: and the development of a dual punishment system that really exists

00:48:16.580 --> 00:48:24.130 Brenda Lett: even today, and why we know it exists today is because in every state in this country

00:48:24.350 --> 00:48:26.460 Brenda Lett: it is disproportionate.

00:48:26.700 --> 00:48:44.860 Brenda Lett: The amount of people of African descent that are in prison, even in states like Utah, in Wyoming, when there is not very many of us there in the State. I live in New Hampshire. Not a whole lot of people of African descent here, but

00:48:44.980 --> 00:48:50.520 Brenda Lett: the prison had quite a few African American brothers

00:48:50.830 --> 00:48:53.620 Brenda Lett: there disproportionately to the State.

00:48:53.690 --> 00:49:09.240 Brenda Lett: So one of the forms of repair around. That would be to address the criminal justice system. And of course, that includes the police, the military, and all of that. And then the last one, which is one that most people talk about

00:49:09.260 --> 00:49:11.920 Brenda Lett: is the one around wealth and poverty.

00:49:11.930 --> 00:49:23.760 Brenda Lett: So we know that we did a lot to help build this country, and we know that when we built built our own communities that people came in and then wanted to take what we built.

00:49:23.790 --> 00:49:36.950 Brenda Lett: Hmm. Like what happened in Tulsa and in Rosewood, Florida, Tulsa, Oklahoma. So many of us are familiar with that. But the biggest thing, if people don't remember anything about our show today

00:49:37.190 --> 00:49:38.310 Brenda Lett: is that

00:49:40.240 --> 00:49:46.060 Brenda Lett: money is insufficient. and that's the word

00:49:46.410 --> 00:49:49.860 Brenda Lett: that I use it's insufficient

00:49:50.080 --> 00:49:51.310 Brenda Lett: to cover

00:49:51.670 --> 00:50:02.620 Brenda Lett: the injuries. So there's a note so we're in the green. There's no amount of money only being treated like a human being. Right?

00:50:02.670 --> 00:50:07.880 Brenda Lett: So so money is insufficient. Now it doesn't mean we don't want

00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:13.620 Brenda Lett: money, right, or resources.

00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:20.270 Brenda Lett: But what we need across the board is changes in the policies, but the biggest thing we need

00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:24.560 Brenda Lett: is to come together as people.

00:50:24.750 --> 00:50:32.270 Brenda Lett: and understand that we all human beings, and I know it sounds really silly, or really Poly Anneish.

00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:49.080 Brenda Lett: but that's really what it's about, and i'll take you back to my sister. One of the biggest challenges my mother had, after I got my degree in special air, came home, wanted to help get my sister into some of the programs that they have for a special children with special needs.

00:50:49.210 --> 00:51:01.200 Brenda Lett: and my mother didn't want to do it Well, my mother didn't want to do it because she felt uncomfortable. and she didn't want people to look at my sister as if though she was a monster or an animal.

00:51:01.410 --> 00:51:05.910 Brenda Lett: and people do that, and I don't think they do it because they're me.

00:51:06.210 --> 00:51:21.280 Brenda Lett: They just do it because they are uncomfortable, and that and that we fast forward back to these Europeans. They are uncomfortable in their own scan. They know the kinds of things that they've been doing, and their ancestors have been doing, and it's still going on.

00:51:21.860 --> 00:51:26.650 Brenda Lett: That's what the George Floyd thing was all about. People couldn't look away from that.

00:51:26.740 --> 00:51:36.560 Brenda Lett: you know. So that's the kind of thing that we have to deal with. We have to deal with this question around our humanity. And again, money

00:51:36.820 --> 00:51:52.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: does not address. I so love what you are saying so. I I I agree with you wholeheartedly. If people take nothing else away to know that money can't cover that, because if you're if you go back to all of those injuries.

00:51:53.350 --> 00:52:10.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and you still have the criminal justice system, which is mass, mass incarceration being the money is not gonna fix that money. The health disparities. If you can't recognize it, it's like gonna fix like the the the cultural issue, you know. Look.

00:52:12.240 --> 00:52:21.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I I had an incident the other night that that happened to me. I was meeting a friend. and we were going to go out.

00:52:21.740 --> 00:52:27.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and just really for a cup of coffee, and where or T, or whatever, where I live.

00:52:27.430 --> 00:52:34.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: things close early where I live. So we found one place that was open late.

00:52:35.040 --> 00:52:44.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I walked in that place, and there was no one that looked like me. There, now, that's not unusual. But there was just something I was like, i'm not really sure. This is this is the place for us to be.

00:52:45.040 --> 00:52:52.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and when my friend met me they said the same thing like, what kind of place are we in? So we sat in the car and talked.

00:52:54.090 --> 00:52:55.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: No, it was at night.

00:52:56.070 --> 00:53:00.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So is that the cars called like the you know, the the cars running.

00:53:01.160 --> 00:53:06.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but we each had this thought that we shared with each other later

00:53:06.900 --> 00:53:07.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: was

00:53:07.990 --> 00:53:17.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we were so conscious that the police could roll up at any time we're in all white area the police could roll up at any time and say, Why are you sitting in the car?

00:53:17.200 --> 00:53:23.220 Brenda Lett: That's a function of not being treated as human in this country, and seeing

00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:39.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: George Floyd and others murdered and lynched that to say that you don't matter, and that's why we have to have our own sense of pride, and knowing that we are children of the most hive right.

00:53:39.150 --> 00:53:44.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so the financial reparations will do nothing if we can't get rid of

00:53:45.300 --> 00:53:48.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the other, or if we can't repair.

00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:51.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because I love for repair, and he

00:53:51.630 --> 00:54:05.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so, Brenda, we are almost out of time, and I just want it. I know that you've got to leave us with the words of inspiration in just a few minutes. But before we do that. is there anything else that we Haven't talked about or covered that

00:54:05.600 --> 00:54:12.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you feel like it's important for our audience to know. Yeah, I I would like to really talk a little bit about races.

00:54:13.270 --> 00:54:22.230 Brenda Lett: You know the the the thing is the People's Institute out of New Orleans. They train.

00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:26.720 Brenda Lett: I I almost want to say millions, but I know it's not me, but it's surely thousands

00:54:26.740 --> 00:54:30.860 Brenda Lett: of people with a 2 and a half day workshop call undoing

00:54:31.370 --> 00:54:47.320 Brenda Lett: racism, and that workshop takes 2 and a half days. It actually takes 2 days just talking about things they have nothing to that's not even about racism. But at the heart of it is this still this thing about being human

00:54:47.380 --> 00:54:58.460 Brenda Lett: and being treated as a human being, and so I would encourage people to get your book and other books, but I would also encourage them to do some

00:54:58.670 --> 00:55:01.830 Brenda Lett: undoing racism. workshop.

00:55:01.990 --> 00:55:12.580 Brenda Lett: and so that you can engage with other people. And then the other thing is. it's really not about the color of someone's skin, because we know.

00:55:13.040 --> 00:55:20.040 Brenda Lett: in order for us to get out of enslavement. There were people that didn't look like us.

00:55:20.110 --> 00:55:26.680 Brenda Lett: We we know that. And so at the heart of that was a human being

00:55:26.940 --> 00:55:35.800 Brenda Lett: with someone who cared about another human being. And to me that's what it's all about. Thank you Thank you for that. Because

00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:44.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is our shared humanity. Right? That's exactly what it's all about. So what words would you leave us with today? Is.

00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:50.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know we prepared to go. How how can you inspire us

00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:53.760 Brenda Lett: to keep them on? Goodness! Oh, my goodness.

00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:56.300 Brenda Lett: you know I am

00:55:57.750 --> 00:56:06.050 Brenda Lett: i'm a Christian. Is this I I struggle saying it because you know I don't do everything I need to do, and that's why. But I want to go to the Bible

00:56:06.650 --> 00:56:08.300 Brenda Lett: first. Corinthians

00:56:08.720 --> 00:56:12.770 Brenda Lett: 1313, which is my favorite description.

00:56:12.880 --> 00:56:17.450 Brenda Lett: and it reads. And now, at bias. faith.

00:56:17.640 --> 00:56:19.460 Brenda Lett: hope, and love

00:56:19.670 --> 00:56:20.800 Brenda Lett: these 3.

00:56:21.710 --> 00:56:25.130 Brenda Lett: But the greatest of these is love.

00:56:26.240 --> 00:56:28.790 Brenda Lett: I mean that just it just touches me

00:56:28.900 --> 00:56:36.930 Brenda Lett: right right? I love that's what that's what I want to leave your audience and thank you again so much for having me today.

00:56:37.100 --> 00:56:44.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You have been a delight. I know there's probably much more we could could have talked about on the show, but

00:56:44.620 --> 00:56:49.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: really just explaining those those pillars of reparation

00:56:49.110 --> 00:56:57.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: was very important and dynamic conversation. And also we want to remind people to get race between us.

00:56:57.950 --> 00:57:10.080 Brenda Lett: which is Brenda's book. And how can people get in touch with you, Brent? If they want to reach out to you, they can get in touch with me by Send me an email race between us@gmail.com.

00:57:10.120 --> 00:57:18.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Okay, Great Great Great Reach out to brenda@racebetweenusatgmail.com.

00:57:18.280 --> 00:57:40.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a delight to have you all for your time, and I thank you, my listeners, for listening in today. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Please remember to comment and to ask your questions and stay tuned for the conscious consultant hour with Sam. Leave it with where he helps you to walk through life with the greatest of ease and joy.

00:57:40.720 --> 00:57:50.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and i'm his guest today. Yours truly the so please hop on over to the show, which is Eric, which is coming up in just a few minutes.

00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:52.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Beloved, be well.

00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:57.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: be safe. Be encouraged until next time, Bye, for now