Thursdays 11:00am - 12:00pm (EDT)
WHAT WILL THE AUDIENCE LEARN?
Listeners will be inspired to reflect on their own stories and what calls them to the work of social justice.
EPISODE SUMMARY:
Join Rev. Dr. TLC and guest host, Angela Todd (historian and archivist) as they delve into Part 2 of What Made Me Who I Am." They will take a look at some of the powerful women in Rev. Dr. TLC's small community in Mississippi who helped to shape her life. Their faith, resilience, love, and strong sense of community and justice are the foundation on which Rev. Dr. TLC stands. Listen in to hear personal stories that will inspire and encourage you to commit to the sacred intelligence journey of faith to dismantle racism.
Rev. Dr. TLC invites you to share your response to the question "What made me who I am?" Write into the show or listen live to comment. Your response might be read on the air.
Tune in for this important conversation at TalkRadio.nyc.
Segment 1
Segment 2
Segment 3
Segment 4
00:00:48.920 --> 00:01:09.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I have to come off mute here. Hello, and welcome to the dismantled racism. Show where our goal is to create a world where racial equity is the norm. We are here to help you to uncover and to find ways to dismantle and eradicate racism. I'm. Your host, the Reverend Doctor T. L. C.
00:01:09.960 --> 00:01:23.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But today I actually have a guest host, archivist, historian, Angela Todd, and we are going to continue the conversation that I started last week with the Reverend Dr. Carlton Smith
00:01:23.810 --> 00:01:30.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: this month. We're really talking about what made me who I am.
00:01:30.260 --> 00:01:33.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We are all interconnected, as you know.
00:01:33.390 --> 00:01:44.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so it takes the learning from the people who came before us. The people who are with us right now for us to stand up and to be our greatest sales.
00:01:44.060 --> 00:01:47.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So on last week's show, I talked about
00:01:47.750 --> 00:02:00.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the women because this is also women history month. There are lots of men who've been influential in my life, but i'm specifically highlighting women. And we talked about the women from history
00:02:00.620 --> 00:02:02.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: who've impacted my life.
00:02:02.740 --> 00:02:20.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: People like Fanny Lou hammer truth. Harriet Tubman, Diane, Nash, and the names go on and on and on, even folks that I didn't really know about and hear about like Ella Baker or Joanne Robinson. Those were people that I didn't hear about as much.
00:02:21.180 --> 00:02:34.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But what they did mattered. And so that's why we're highlighting them, and that's why I understand that even though I didn't know them personally, their work has made me into the woman that I am today
00:02:35.250 --> 00:02:39.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: on the show. Today I've invited my guest host here because
00:02:40.040 --> 00:02:44.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: she believes in restoring history, bringing out the history
00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:53.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of women. So we're gonna go a little bit more inward to talk about who are some of the people from my community.
00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:57.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and that community extends beyond the community that I grew up in.
00:02:58.490 --> 00:03:04.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But who are some of the people one pack of my life, and what do I learn from them? And then next week
00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:05.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Angela will be back.
00:03:05.790 --> 00:03:12.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and hopefully she will be back with my daughter, and we're going to hone it in and talk a little bit more about my family.
00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:22.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: My hope is that as I talk about the people who've inspired me. As I talk about my family as I talk about my community, you will reach back
00:03:22.410 --> 00:03:24.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and look at the legacy
00:03:24.870 --> 00:03:31.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that you are carrying and bringing forth and understanding again how what you do matters.
00:03:31.900 --> 00:03:34.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and also understanding to appreciate
00:03:34.610 --> 00:03:37.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the women who came before
00:03:38.710 --> 00:03:41.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the people who came before
00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:44.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're standing on their shoulders.
00:03:46.170 --> 00:03:54.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so we owe it to them. and we owe it to ourselves and to the next generation to create a better world.
00:03:54.440 --> 00:04:07.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We're gonna get started, and as always, I want to invite you into a time of meditation. I actually really need it this morning, so I am inviting you to to just quiet your spirit.
00:04:07.430 --> 00:04:12.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: close your eyes if you would. and just begin to breathe.
00:04:14.500 --> 00:04:16.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathing in and out.
00:04:18.510 --> 00:04:20.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: centering yourself.
00:04:22.270 --> 00:04:24.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting with your sacred source.
00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:30.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting with the essence of who you are.
00:04:32.940 --> 00:04:36.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to invite you to breathe in and out.
00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:41.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and just for a moment remember the ancestors.
00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:45.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Remember the women
00:04:45.350 --> 00:04:47.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: who impacted your life.
00:04:48.850 --> 00:04:51.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: The women who sacrificed for you
00:04:55.650 --> 00:04:58.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the women who sought to change the status quo.
00:05:00.630 --> 00:05:03.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the women who said it's not okay to be silent.
00:05:05.780 --> 00:05:09.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: or the women who moved mountains. Even in
00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:18.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: there's silence. The ones who worked behind the scenes that we don't even know their names.
00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:21.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They were thinking of us
00:05:23.650 --> 00:05:26.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so just breathe in and out, and give gratitude for that.
00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:36.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Connect with the women we're present in your lifeline.
00:05:39.340 --> 00:05:42.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Connect with the women who are present in your daily life.
00:05:44.550 --> 00:05:53.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: whether they're mothers or grandmothers or aunties sisters. Me sits
00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:57.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: friends, colleagues.
00:05:59.670 --> 00:06:01.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connect with the women
00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:05.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: who adore you, and you adore that
00:06:08.610 --> 00:06:13.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in and out and just say, Thank you.
00:06:18.150 --> 00:06:22.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Thank you for the ways in which you have poured into my life.
00:06:22.780 --> 00:06:25.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Even when I didn't know what was happening.
00:06:27.890 --> 00:06:29.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Breathe in.
00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:31.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe out.
00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:40.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: knowing that you are part of divine wisdom, and you are a part of that circle of women, no matter
00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:45.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: how you identify or show up in life.
00:06:46.180 --> 00:06:48.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You're connected with all those women.
00:06:52.820 --> 00:06:54.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They support you.
00:06:57.490 --> 00:06:58.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they love you.
00:07:01.110 --> 00:07:06.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and they're watching out for you. even if they are in another round.
00:07:07.780 --> 00:07:15.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So breathe in and out, just being grateful and filling their spirits
00:07:16.300 --> 00:07:17.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and filling their love.
00:07:21.370 --> 00:07:23.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to invite you to take a deep breath in
00:07:25.410 --> 00:07:34.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: inside out, very slowly. recognizing that the power of one contributes to the power of community.
00:07:37.310 --> 00:07:48.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: One more deep breath in sign it out. and when you're ready. Open your eyes and last weekend.
00:07:51.100 --> 00:07:57.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, I am going to turn it over to my guest host.
00:07:57.830 --> 00:08:04.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Angela Todd, and i'm going to invite her to share about herself.
00:08:04.280 --> 00:08:05.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and then
00:08:05.540 --> 00:08:13.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: take it away. Angela. Thank you so much for being on the show and for agreeing to be the guest host today.
00:08:14.030 --> 00:08:33.250 Angela: Carolyn, it's always such a pleasure to be with you in person or on zoom. I've missed. We used to get together a lot in person, and I've missed that over the last couple of years. So thank you for having me. I am an archivist and a historian.
00:08:33.299 --> 00:08:34.809 Angela: focused on
00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:44.059 Angela: adding the records of women and historically excluded populations to the dominant archives that from which history are written.
00:08:44.130 --> 00:08:50.080 So you know women to make up half the country. But women are not half of history.
00:08:50.470 --> 00:09:01.130 Angela: But to get there Women have to be half of the archives first, so i'm on a mission to get women to insist on their own inclusion, and of course, for women of color
00:09:01.410 --> 00:09:04.420 Angela: it's even more urgent and more fragile.
00:09:04.460 --> 00:09:09.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So i'm delighted to be here and to jump in with you.
00:09:10.040 --> 00:09:25.000 Angela: So some interview questions that we talked about yesterday. So I listen to your last podcast, and I was so shocked that you did not know about I to be Wells having grown up in the same
00:09:25.170 --> 00:09:34.250 Angela: town with her, and I want to start with her because that seems like a link between the sort of big names in black women's history
00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:39.510 Angela: and your community right? So you grew up in the town where she was from.
00:09:39.680 --> 00:09:42.590 Angela: and I wonder if you could just say a few words about
00:09:43.220 --> 00:09:56.230 Angela: what impact you think she had on the town? The women in the town, I mean. I don't know that. How many generations before, like your mother and grandmother she was. I wonder if you could speak to that a little bit.
00:09:56.230 --> 00:10:05.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So it's really hard to speak to it, Angela and i'm and I'm. I think i'm shocked that you're shocked that I didn't know about her, because that's what
00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:23.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That's what white supremacy is right. This is keeping us excluded from history. And also that's what patriarchy is. So I don't remember my parents having conversations about I to be wells. I think I learned about I to be wells.
00:10:23.310 --> 00:10:24.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know.
00:10:24.660 --> 00:10:29.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Maybe in college, I think i'm not really sure when I learned about her, but
00:10:30.910 --> 00:10:37.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it wasn't in the history books, but what I know about I to be wells is this.
00:10:37.050 --> 00:10:49.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She was a pioneer in her, in in the sense that this was a woman who lost her mother and father very early on in life, and was committed to raising her younger siblings.
00:10:49.010 --> 00:11:02.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And then she started reporting about lynching, and that was at the age of like 26 when she started her newspaper. I mean my goodness, that was really young, and she put her life out there
00:11:02.430 --> 00:11:11.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: on the line for this, and if i'm not mistaken, she was also one of the founders of the Naacp. If i'm not mistaken.
00:11:12.610 --> 00:11:21.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so I can't speak to the impact that she had on the lives of the women there, and I don't know that she had a direct impact
00:11:21.370 --> 00:11:37.650 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: on me because I didn't know about her. But in directly. Here was her energy, energy, and spirit being in the same town. So I have to think especially energetically, that I got something from this powerful woman who said, No.
00:11:37.650 --> 00:11:43.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: this is this is not right. I mean, this is a woman who, when she left Mississippi
00:11:43.610 --> 00:11:54.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and moved to Memphis, Tennessee, and was writing about these things. She had to eventually flee to Chicago because they burned down her newspaper
00:11:54.590 --> 00:11:55.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: phenomenal.
00:11:55.950 --> 00:12:07.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Now here's what I will say. There's an I to be Wells Museum in Mississippi now. So things have changed because there were some people who came along since that time and say, wait a minute.
00:12:07.750 --> 00:12:17.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: This is a woman that we ought to know. And so i'm so excited that there is a museum there, and it actually
00:12:19.350 --> 00:12:30.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: what do what do they call the curator of the Museum, or whatever the name there's a there's another proper name for it. But she actually said that we could put a a room there to my mother
00:12:30.800 --> 00:12:41.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in that library. So I know that would make you happy because you're as a historian, so that is something that we are definitely needing to to work on.
00:12:41.810 --> 00:12:55.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We're gonna talk more about that next week. You have questions, and i'm sure you'll tell me lots that you think should go in here as well. And so I I just want to say
00:12:55.500 --> 00:13:10.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that that's a part of the uncovering that's why we need to talk about women's history. That's why we need to talk about black history, so that we know about people like I to be. Well, I don't even know if I knew about Fanny Lou Hammer, because here's the thing.
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:21.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When I ask my parents and I know we're going to talk about them next week. But when I asked my parents in later years about racism. I think the ones were so deep
00:13:21.290 --> 00:13:27.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that it wasn't something that they wanted to talk about very much, and they also didn't want us to get stuck
00:13:27.950 --> 00:13:29.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: on racism.
00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:35.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because they never ever said that we were limited by anything, even when they said.
00:13:35.850 --> 00:13:47.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know my parents. you know, would refer to white people as yes or no. So for a pretty good time of the period in my life, you know. Up until I would think I was about 12. I think that's what's in my memory.
00:13:47.710 --> 00:13:55.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and and I remember when my brother said, Why do you do that? And they said, Well, that's just the way things are. But then I noticed they stopped
00:13:56.020 --> 00:14:06.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right. So even with noticing that that's the way things are, they didn't want us to believe that we had to walk that path right? So
00:14:06.700 --> 00:14:19.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I I want to. I want to pause because I don't want to go into too much about my family in the ways in which they raised us, because I want to be respectful, that we want to do it next week, and so i'll stop for now.
00:14:19.940 --> 00:14:26.970 Angela: So what I want to say is an archivist about Ida B. Wells reportage of the Lynchings
00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:38.380 Angela: is, we see in her story the power of her stories and her witness, and her the knowledge that she saved and printed and reified by printing it right.
00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:43.650 And so she has saved a portion of history that may have just been swept away.
00:14:43.650 --> 00:14:59.670 Angela: and we all have the power to save our little slice. I think a really important thing that I hope your readers can take away as we talk about the women in your community. And before this interview we talked about what we're gonna do. And I said at the end.
00:14:59.760 --> 00:15:06.660 Angela: You know those interviews need to go in your archive, Carolyn. I'll talk a little bit more about that later. But
00:15:07.150 --> 00:15:11.210 Angela: what you're doing is an amazing historical feat.
00:15:12.370 --> 00:15:18.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So let's move from I to B. Wells to your
00:15:19.110 --> 00:15:32.140 Angela: church and neighborhood because we talked a little about we. Well, we've talked a lot over the years about Mississippi and the church, and the people that raised you and one of the people that we talked about
00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:52.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: discussing here today. It was Miss Matty Wilson, and I wonder if you'd talk to us about her? Well, I will, but it looks like we have to take a break, and so I will talk about Miss Maddie as soon as we come back from the break. My guest to today is Archivist Angela Todd, and I'm. Your host, the Reverend Dr. Tlc. Will be right back.
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00:17:28.900 --> 00:17:29.800 Christian.
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00:18:08.260 --> 00:18:15.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We are back with the Dismantle racism show. So before the break, Angela, you ask me
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:17.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about Miss Maddie Wilson.
00:18:19.120 --> 00:18:22.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and it's interesting when you're growing up.
00:18:23.210 --> 00:18:27.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Perhaps you don't always understand how people are impacting your life.
00:18:28.130 --> 00:18:36.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But as you grow older and you can look back on who were some of the people that that nurtured you and helped you to go spiritually.
00:18:36.870 --> 00:18:39.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I think about people like Miss Maddie.
00:18:40.050 --> 00:18:51.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So Miss Maddie died at 101 years old, and I write about her in my first book. So it sacred intelligence, the essence of sacred, selfish, and shared relationships.
00:18:51.950 --> 00:18:57.440 And the reason why I wrote about her is because I was talking about
00:18:57.510 --> 00:19:02.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the people who are a bomb for our souls.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:15.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and who reach us even when we they may not even realize their impact. So when I was younger. Miss Maddie was actually a member of another church.
00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:21.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But during the summers the churches would come together and have vacation Bible school.
00:19:22.060 --> 00:19:24.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and she was my teacher
00:19:25.830 --> 00:19:28.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: now. She never called my name right.
00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:47.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because I don't know why. So my middle name is Lisa, and that's the name that home folks call me. So if someone calls me Lisa, I know someone who knows me from home right? So I just shared a little bit with my audience there. So, for whatever reason, she and another older gentleman in the neighborhood.
00:19:47.980 --> 00:19:50.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they would always call me lead the.
00:19:51.790 --> 00:19:54.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and it never bothered me
00:19:56.070 --> 00:20:05.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because it actually felt a little endearing. and I understood it wasn't that they didn't know who I was. They absolutely did.
00:20:05.760 --> 00:20:23.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so Miss Maddie Wilson, when she taught us vacation Bible school. In my mind I could just, I I feel like I can remember her hugging us, and I don't know if she did or did. But I just feel it in my mind, even as i'm talking. I feel like the essence of her spirit here with me.
00:20:23.690 --> 00:20:34.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and the ways in which she smiled when she talked. She also encouraged us, and she just loved on us and made us feel imported.
00:20:35.740 --> 00:20:39.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She didn't make us think that we were less than
00:20:39.700 --> 00:20:46.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in the way that she taught us. It was all about loving us enough
00:20:46.560 --> 00:20:51.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to want the very best for us, and to have us to
00:20:52.130 --> 00:21:02.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: aspire to the best in life. And so that's why I talk about her. I just remember her being this great influence, and and of course there were lots of others, but she just stands out to me
00:21:03.070 --> 00:21:04.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I adore.
00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:07.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I know she's dead, but I just adore.
00:21:07.570 --> 00:21:22.690 Angela: I can hear it in your voice that's so wonderful. So we talked a little about her, and he called her one of the church mothers, but I hear you say that she wasn't part of your church, and I wonder if you could talk about the difference between, or if there is any
00:21:22.800 --> 00:21:29.420 Angela: church and community. So we kept kind of blurring into, like your church community, your neighborhood.
00:21:29.530 --> 00:21:34.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I absolutely think it's blurred, because.
00:21:34.410 --> 00:21:36.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because, to be honest.
00:21:37.020 --> 00:21:54.780 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we often think of church mothers as the older women who are in the Church, that we, of course, have this great respect for who are always in closing us in love and mothering us, whether it's top the tough love or or otherwise. And in my community
00:21:55.350 --> 00:22:12.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I I would like to say that actually there wasn't a difference, because all those older women who were in the community, they were either a part of our church or a part of the neighboring church, and we went to one another's churches so much that it does blur the lines, and it it was never about
00:22:13.470 --> 00:22:30.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: a distinction. There was no us in them. We were all one community, and that I think we are lacking to this day. I mean they live down the road a piece from us. But if something happened, you were getting in your car or walking
00:22:30.130 --> 00:22:49.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: down the road, and I do mean the road. I don't need a highway down the road to go check on them like I can remember when a tornado hit our community and actually Miss Maddie's house. I think she and her husband lived in a trailer. It was demolished. You go out and you check on people. It's so
00:22:49.840 --> 00:22:56.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because our community was also one of faith. The community itself.
00:22:56.120 --> 00:23:00.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: whether people attended church or not, and most people did.
00:23:00.820 --> 00:23:08.170 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We knew about faith in God, which is why for me, all of my work centers on the sacred, because I don't know anything differently
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:10.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: than having faith.
00:23:10.700 --> 00:23:12.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so those women
00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:31.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in my community and in my church they taught me what it was to have faith in the midst of troubling times they taught me what it was like to love. In the midst of troubling times they taught me what it was like to look out for one another in the midst of troubling time. So there is no separation
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:40.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: for us, you know. I think, in my community. It's different than a big city where people are coming to a church from all over the city. Now
00:23:40.470 --> 00:23:45.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're all coming to church. It in the church is right down the road from your church
00:23:45.790 --> 00:23:53.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right? And even when it wasn't right down the road, it was still, because, because, quite frankly, Angela, I grew up
00:23:53.830 --> 00:23:56.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: where we visited multiple churches.
00:23:56.900 --> 00:24:09.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and that i'm just gonna say you told me if I were read a poem at my church the next week. I'd be reading that poem at this exactly because we would have children's day for Mother's day.
00:24:10.170 --> 00:24:19.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You always had to do something as a child, and that was the thing about church. So if we want to talk about the church community. that's where I learned to speak, Angela.
00:24:19.730 --> 00:24:27.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That's where I learned, you know, in addition to my father as well, teaching me that my voice was imported. Do you know
00:24:27.770 --> 00:24:28.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that?
00:24:29.590 --> 00:24:33.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I ran for Miss Holly? High
00:24:33.740 --> 00:24:48.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right, my schools, you know. So I ran that. So you're learning a lot about me. So I did. James Weldon. Johnson wrote a series of 7 sermons called God's trombone.
00:24:48.450 --> 00:24:59.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I ran by doing a dramatization of Go down. Death got a standing ovation for it. so of course, my mother said, you have to do it at church.
00:25:00.540 --> 00:25:03.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so I did it at church.
00:25:03.800 --> 00:25:09.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I remember my cousin E. Though, coming up saying, When did you become ordained?
00:25:10.350 --> 00:25:20.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So when I applied to Yale when I applied to Harvard Seminary because I went to Harvard Seminary before going to Gail. That was a part of my essay going back to my community.
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:23.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and understanding that
00:25:23.760 --> 00:25:37.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: my cousin was speaking a life calling over me, even though she may not have known it at the time to say when that you become ordained. I wasn't even thinking all I was doing was being dramatic.
00:25:38.410 --> 00:25:41.460 Angela: It suits you.
00:25:41.660 --> 00:25:54.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but she saw something, and that is the importance of us going back looking at our stories, looking at the people who help to shape us. Sometimes all they're doing is planting a seed.
00:25:54.140 --> 00:26:12.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and that seed may not sprout to years later. Those are the women that I grew up with in my neighborhood. Those were the women who who taught me to act as if you are more than what you are in this moment, the world cannot tell you who you are.
00:26:12.310 --> 00:26:20.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You have to know it for yourself. And so, Angela. That's the blurry of the church and the community. There's no separation
00:26:20.310 --> 00:26:21.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: for me.
00:26:21.490 --> 00:26:32.010 Angela: I'm struck to. By the way, you're talking about how there was a children's day. The children were the center of the church in the neighborhood, or at least occasionally, in the church.
00:26:32.080 --> 00:26:33.800 Angela: and I wonder if you could
00:26:34.330 --> 00:26:37.230 Angela: flip it and talk about the how the
00:26:37.250 --> 00:26:48.090 Angela: older generation or the elderly showed up in the church and neighborhood, and what kind of impact and power they had
00:26:48.460 --> 00:26:54.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they showed up in the ways in which they modeled to us how we had to be and to behave.
00:26:54.690 --> 00:26:56.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I will tell you.
00:26:57.090 --> 00:27:01.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They showed up in the ways in which teaching us how to pray. Angela.
00:27:02.130 --> 00:27:04.470 Angela: Hmm. Say a little more about that
00:27:04.560 --> 00:27:07.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: now. Okay, i'm gonna shift to a man just for a second.
00:27:07.930 --> 00:27:16.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because I adored him to, and his name is Mr. Melvin Ford, and he died. I think it was like a 102 or 103.
00:27:17.300 --> 00:27:30.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I can remember when I went to Yale they were asking us about who were the people who who have impacted us spiritually, and he was whatever came to mind instantly, because I could recall how he prayed in church.
00:27:30.690 --> 00:27:38.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and the fact of the matter is when he prayed and church he would. He would call God's name, and then he would pause for a really long time.
00:27:40.020 --> 00:27:42.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I will be thinking, Can you just hurry up
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:47.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and just pray? But now as an adult, I know now that he was waiting
00:27:47.300 --> 00:28:00.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to listen to that powerful voice of the sacred speaking, and then I can think about the women who prayed in church, the women who sang in church, the women who embraced me in church.
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: both women.
00:28:04.470 --> 00:28:06.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They were encouragers.
00:28:06.940 --> 00:28:20.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: supporters. They were uplifters. If we said a piece in church, and even if we didn't do a good job, they would be like that's great that's great. Give her, Give her a hand clap.
00:28:21.300 --> 00:28:26.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They were going to encourage you to get up there, and even if all you could do was, say your name.
00:28:26.140 --> 00:28:30.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: get up there, be seen. That's incredible.
00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:37.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's incredible. And so I believe that they showed us what love is
00:28:37.800 --> 00:28:44.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in terms of again just showing us how to be concerned for one another
00:28:44.330 --> 00:28:48.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in the ways in which they showed up in the community.
00:28:49.530 --> 00:29:01.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when something happened in the ways in which they spread the word. If something was, and we didn't have telephones until, like I would say, we didn't have a phone in our house until, like mid seventies.
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:06.510 Angela: we do have to go to brick, and I don't want to eat off this topic.
00:29:06.530 --> 00:29:17.640 Angela: And so when we come back we're going to keep talking about instead of phones you had feet. I guess you'd run down, and the word would spread just like that.
00:29:17.890 --> 00:29:20.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But yes, we have to take break. We'll be right back.
00:29:22.130 --> 00:29:36.450 Are you passionate about the conversation around racism. Hi! I'm. Reverend Dr. Tlc. Host of the Dismantle Racism show which airs every Thursday at 11 a. M. Eastern on talk radio and nyc
00:29:36.450 --> 00:29:49.000 join me and my amazing guest, as we discuss ways to uncover, dismantle and eradicate racism. That's Thursdays at 110'clock a M. On talk radio and Nyc.
00:29:51.600 --> 00:30:19.420 www.TalkRadio.nyc: In a Post- movement world. You may have many unanswered questions regarding your health. Are you looking to live a healthier lifestyle? Do you have a desire to learn more about mental health and enhance your quality of life? Or do you just want to participate in self-understanding and awareness? I'm. Frank R. Harrison host of Frank about health, and each Thursday I will tackle these questions and work to enlighten you. Tune in every Thursday 5 P. M. On talk radio and Nyc. And I will be frank about help to advocate for all of us.
00:30:24.690 --> 00:30:48.800 Hey, everybody! It's Tommy Dee, the nonprofit sector Connector, coming at you from my attic each week. Here on top radio and Nyc, I hosted program for Lambda in focus. Nonprofits impact us each and every day, and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their story. Listen: Each week at 10 a. M. Eastern standard time until 11 a. M. Is from standing time right here on talk radio, Dot: Nyc.
00:30:49.820 --> 00:31:00.290 You're listening to talk radio and Yc: at Www: talk radio and live Scene: now broadcasting 24 h a day.
00:31:00.780 --> 00:31:01.760 the
00:31:07.090 --> 00:31:07.700 a
00:31:11.170 --> 00:31:11.750 her.
00:31:23.190 --> 00:31:35.890 Angela: Okay, Welcome back to dismantling racism. I'm your guest host, Angela Todd I'm archivist and historian specializing in the history of women and historically excluded populations
00:31:36.090 --> 00:31:40.100 Angela: Carolyn when we cut for the break we were talking about.
00:31:40.310 --> 00:31:53.020 Angela: You didn't have phones. And so, if something happened, people would run to each other's houses and talk about what was going on, and how the community was gonna handle it. And we've talked about the women in your community and how they
00:31:53.320 --> 00:31:57.280 Angela: taught you how to pray and love and recognize each other.
00:31:57.450 --> 00:32:16.970 Angela: and I want to shift a little bit to your school situations and your school experiences, and I want to bridge it by asking how the community felt about school. Now I've interviewed your mom, and I know how she felt about school. But talk about Miss Maddie and the other women in the or the other people in your neighborhood, and
00:32:17.090 --> 00:32:20.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: what you knew from them
00:32:21.350 --> 00:32:28.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: well. What I knew was that education is important right. So my
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:39.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: older siblings can tell a story about one room school houses that I can't tell in the beginning right? They didn't. They didn't necessarily complete high school in that.
00:32:39.470 --> 00:32:47.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but I can grow I. When I grew up I remember that we actually had the All One Room school house still there.
00:32:47.250 --> 00:32:57.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so I could see it. It wasn't torn down. and I could remember the teachers in my neighborhood like Miss Alberta Porter
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:01.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and those people who taught
00:33:02.190 --> 00:33:10.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in neighboring schools. So education was really important, and I think when they would have us to stand up and to do a piece
00:33:11.180 --> 00:33:21.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of poetry or a poem in church. I think that that was a way of educating us, you know, still teaching us to keep rising.
00:33:21.250 --> 00:33:22.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And one thing
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:29.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: just to add in terms of even church. We had to learn how to when we had Sunday school.
00:33:29.780 --> 00:33:34.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Sometimes we were the Secretary of the Sunday School, the children Secretary of Philly school
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:46.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right? We might help count the money for Sunday school, so they're teaching us how to be, how to how to behave. We might be a junior officer in the church.
00:33:47.250 --> 00:33:55.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So these people were teaching us how valuable school and schooling was.
00:33:57.890 --> 00:34:02.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So when I grew up I began school at a segregated school.
00:34:03.170 --> 00:34:13.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and my mom and dad had to make the decision to send us to to a school that was predominantly white, and I never asked them about that, and so
00:34:13.620 --> 00:34:15.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I don't have
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:26.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that history. But I could probably ask some of my older siblings if they remember any of the conversation around desegregation, because it wasn't always the best thing for everyone
00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:31.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right. But I remember
00:34:31.750 --> 00:34:39.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they along with my uncle and aunt and other a few other people in the neighborhood, making a decision
00:34:39.500 --> 00:34:41.449 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to send us to the other school.
00:34:42.540 --> 00:34:45.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and it wasn't because the Black School wasn't valued
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:52.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it was but they, I I think they had other reasons for deciding now. Ultimately I
00:34:52.900 --> 00:34:58.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: went back to a predominantly black high school, but I spent my elementary school years.
00:34:58.070 --> 00:35:01.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I know that was second grade.
00:35:02.120 --> 00:35:07.060 Angela: and then, when we were talking, you said that your third grade teacher, Miss Ray.
00:35:07.240 --> 00:35:10.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: a big impact on you.
00:35:10.680 --> 00:35:17.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So again I think it's important for us to look back at all the women who impacted us.
00:35:17.730 --> 00:35:23.110 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I, in second grade, went to a predominantly white school. So I I change schools.
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:39.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and for the life. I can't remember my second grade Teacher's thing, but I think she was related to Miss Ray. Actually they might have been. They might have been sister in law, so her name could have been miss right, too, for all I remember. But I but but the point that I wanted to make about my third grade teacher was this.
00:35:40.520 --> 00:35:42.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: she saw me
00:35:42.720 --> 00:35:53.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: for who I was at the time. So those of us who worked in the education system we know about tracking. and we also know about
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:59.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: children of color, particularly black children, being seen as less than
00:35:59.670 --> 00:36:16.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so. For for your listeners say just a few words about tracking if you would. So tracking is really about when you put some students in a. P. Some students and honor some students, and just re regular LED and then other students and special LED. And then you keep those students there.
00:36:16.660 --> 00:36:19.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right you you! You just decide.
00:36:19.780 --> 00:36:29.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: This is where they got to be. The rest of their their lives, unless they advocate, like my daughter to it at all. I I want to just digress for a minute, my daughter.
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:40.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know she, I I came home from a trip one day. She was eighth grade, I think seventh or eighth grade. I came home from a trip, and she says, Mom, I moved up in math.
00:36:40.810 --> 00:36:47.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I said, Well, what do you mean? She said, because I was in the math class, and I looked around, and I and I realized
00:36:47.840 --> 00:37:00.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I I didn't need to be in this math class. I was way smarter. She's, she said, in a different way than i'm saying it now. It's like I was way smarter than these kids and I need. And she went to her math teacher, and she told her I need to be moved up.
00:37:00.170 --> 00:37:02.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and she was moved up to Honors class.
00:37:02.470 --> 00:37:11.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and then eventually she was taking ap courses. So I love that she advocated for herself. But that's not always the case. And so when I got to
00:37:12.260 --> 00:37:14.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: this school
00:37:14.520 --> 00:37:23.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in second grade, I I think I was just in a regular reading group, and then when I got to Miss Ray's class, I was in a regular reading group.
00:37:23.160 --> 00:37:40.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I will never forget the day when she took some students so she could help them to read, and then she placed me in her group, and she said, Lisa, I want you to listen to the other students reading correct them when they make a mistake, and blah blah blah blah blah! Right
00:37:40.710 --> 00:37:46.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So at the end of our reading time
00:37:46.130 --> 00:37:51.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: she said to me from now on you're moving up to the higher level Reading Cloud Group.
00:37:53.000 --> 00:38:06.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because I guess she understood. If I could correct all the other students that maybe I needed to be in the higher reading group. And what I loved about that is because she saw me, Angela, she didn't just say not. There were other students of color in that
00:38:06.940 --> 00:38:10.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: reading group as well. But she could have said.
00:38:10.430 --> 00:38:14.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I'm going to just keep you in that class, because
00:38:14.900 --> 00:38:17.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: bringing this forward to my children again.
00:38:17.660 --> 00:38:21.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When one of my daughters was in the higher reading group
00:38:22.370 --> 00:38:28.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: for her school the next year, when some other students came over from a school that closed down.
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:47.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They then put those students in a higher level reading group, and some of the students who had been. They moved into just a regular rating group. And well, these students had more experience than you all did. How dare they? But I digress right. This stuff happens all the time.
00:38:47.050 --> 00:38:49.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and me sharing both of those stories to say
00:38:50.080 --> 00:38:52.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Miss Ray, who was a white woman.
00:38:54.180 --> 00:38:56.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: did it just go with the flow.
00:38:57.030 --> 00:39:05.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and the Zeitgeist of the time and say, we're going to leave this black child in the lower level reading class.
00:39:05.610 --> 00:39:06.370 Angela: right?
00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:12.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And and advocating for racism is about what you do day in and day out.
00:39:13.540 --> 00:39:14.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and that's what she did.
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:24.220 Angela: And i'm gonna jump in and say what we do day in and day out, is the stuff that's lost to history.
00:39:24.290 --> 00:39:25.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That's right.
00:39:25.560 --> 00:39:30.850 Angela: So we got 5 of your little classmate. Well, I mean your grown classmates together
00:39:31.080 --> 00:39:50.330 Angela: to talk about Miss Ray. It would be great contribution to you know what really did happen in Mississippi education, in whatever decade that was, and what a difference she made over the whole community. So thank you for sharing that. I I really
00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:57.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: appreciate the story, and it allowed me to give this little blip about how important she was. Okay.
00:39:57.990 --> 00:40:00.130 Angela: So then, third grade.
00:40:00.270 --> 00:40:12.750 Angela: You went to fourth grade and had a teacher, and then in fifth grade you had Miss Newman, and you marked her as one of your big influences as well.
00:40:13.490 --> 00:40:31.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Miss Newman was also a white woman and angel. I think it's important to say that fourth grade experience that was in was a black woman. And I say, I, I say that because I want us to understand that we have to work across the lines racially.
00:40:31.790 --> 00:40:41.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and there's some people out here. Who are? Why, we're going to help you there. People who are black who are going to help you and their people were black. We're not going to, and their people are white. We're not going to.
00:40:41.970 --> 00:40:46.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but we have to be able to see the hand that's extended towards us.
00:40:46.200 --> 00:40:49.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It's my fifth grade teacher was Miss Newman.
00:40:50.010 --> 00:40:54.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And why did I love this Newman
00:40:54.130 --> 00:40:58.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: again? Because she treated all of us like we were human.
00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:04.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and what she did for us girls. Now this was You could never do this today.
00:41:04.570 --> 00:41:08.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but she asked us who wanted to learn how to crochet.
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:20.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so we brought our little crochet needles, and they'd probably be considered a weapon now, so you can't bring them in. So we brought our crochet needles in and during recess she taught all of us how to crochet.
00:41:21.650 --> 00:41:25.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I just remember the loving way
00:41:26.160 --> 00:41:39.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it would. She interacted with us. She did not make us feel less than she didn't make us feel stupid if we didn't know anything. She was always encouraging, you know.
00:41:39.790 --> 00:41:53.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know we always think that there's a favorite, or there there's a teachers yet, but I don't know that she had one necessarily. But we do know that there was one student, and we all do. He was the smartest to Mark Williams.
00:41:53.770 --> 00:42:01.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the smartest student in the class. There's no doubt about it. So if she called on him, she was calling on him because he was a smart student
00:42:01.990 --> 00:42:13.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in the in the class. It's so. I can say that with without any any judgment, because she also made the rest of us know that we were smart, at least from where I stood.
00:42:13.630 --> 00:42:18.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She did. And so I I just want to add that even in Mississippi.
00:42:20.030 --> 00:42:23.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: during a time where.
00:42:23.160 --> 00:42:31.780 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know racism is. Was it was the norm and is the norm. I think racism in this country is the Norm people just Don't believe it is.
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:36.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but I never got that from her. I never got
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:40.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that. We're supposed to be different because we're black.
00:42:41.150 --> 00:42:48.140 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I have. In fact, I even have another teacher I can think of in the seventh grade never got that from her, either. So.
00:42:48.500 --> 00:42:54.910 Angela: and it seems like you were set up by your community to believe in yourself worth in a way that
00:42:55.000 --> 00:43:03.190 Angela: you could allow that to happen in school right? It seems like a continuation to me.
00:43:03.820 --> 00:43:06.960 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: even to this day. No one can tell me who I am.
00:43:07.090 --> 00:43:14.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because I know who I am. and I know who's that. Yeah, because of what was poured into me.
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:21.150 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I know supreme love divine love. I know human love.
00:43:21.460 --> 00:43:28.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and no one can tell me anything differently. and that's what sacred intelligence is all about tapping into that part of you
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:41.880 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: where you can feel the presence of of of what's holy and sacred in your life. There's a lot of crap that's gonna happen to us in life, and you can choose whether you're gonna let that take you backwards.
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:59.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: or you can choose to say. But I still rise because of the people who have to raise me up. It may not be your mother, your father, your grandpa. It may not be those people, but who are the people we can look at in our lives. Who are the people we can look at in his
00:43:59.050 --> 00:44:11.350 Angela: who said, I am more than what you're calling me to be. Yes, i'm gonna let you go ahead and ask. I know i'm sorry I got to go to break, but when we come back i'm gonna ask you again about what you mean
00:44:11.460 --> 00:44:17.170 Angela: when you say I know who's I am? Don't? Answer me now. We'll get the answer to me come, back.
00:44:21.500 --> 00:44:45.550 Everybody. It's Tommy deed and non-profit sector connector coming at you from my attic each week here on talk radio and nyc I hosted program for lamb of game focus nonprofits in cocktails each and every day, and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their story. Listen: each week at 10 a. M. Eastern standard time until 11. A. M. Is for standard time. Right here on talk radio, Dot Nyc.
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00:45:17.740 --> 00:45:48.030 Are you a conscious co-creator? Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? I'm Sam Libelich, your conscious consultant, and on my show the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen. Live at our new time on Thursdays, at 12 noon Eastern time. That's the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. Thursday's 12 noon on talk, radio and Nyc.
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00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:44.940 Angela: Okay. We're back. I'm your guest host for the week. Angela L. Todd. I'm. An archivist and a historian specializing in Women's history and that of historically excluded populations. And we're talking with Dr. Carolyn L. Curry Avery today about who made her what and who she is.
00:46:45.020 --> 00:46:55.570 Angela: and before the break I wanted to go back to, and I've heard you say this for years. I think we've been friends and colleagues for a decade, and you say I know who I am.
00:46:55.940 --> 00:47:06.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I want to. I want you to say a few words about that, because I understood it one way all these years. And then today I feel like I have a new understanding of what that means.
00:47:06.530 --> 00:47:21.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, it basically means that I am a child of God. I am the Manifestation of God. I am a Divine Being, and as long as I understand that I am enclosed in that love.
00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:25.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you can't tell me who I am. because
00:47:27.140 --> 00:47:27.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: late.
00:47:27.930 --> 00:47:39.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It it it's it's. It's almost inexplicable sometimes, because I, because that community raised me so much to believe in God, despite what was happening in the world.
00:47:39.750 --> 00:47:50.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That's the thing that people have to understand is like, Remember who you are, and if I know that i'm more than this skin color
00:47:50.830 --> 00:47:55.550 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that I am a sole being that's connected to something greater.
00:47:57.620 --> 00:48:06.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Then I don't have to give into the lies that the world tells me. And so, whenever I say whose I am, it just means that me and God like this.
00:48:07.030 --> 00:48:11.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: there's no separation from me and God. I am made
00:48:11.150 --> 00:48:23.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in the lightness of God I made in divinity. I, when God looked to me just like God, looked upon everybody else, that that God said that there is a certain reverence in you.
00:48:23.520 --> 00:48:29.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: There's a Scripture that says You're fearfully and wonderfully made. and that's what I hold on to
00:48:29.550 --> 00:48:34.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right there. So that's what I mean about who I am, and on top of that
00:48:34.870 --> 00:48:38.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I am also El Myra and Lq's daughter.
00:48:38.740 --> 00:48:53.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I you're a child of Holly Springs, the church and the school continuum of love around this in that neighborhood. That's right. And and and and again.
00:48:53.540 --> 00:49:01.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: being a child of Lq. And L. My curry, and then my my ancestors. You know my grandparents, which we can talk about next.
00:49:01.210 --> 00:49:09.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: like I know who I come from. I'm their i'm their child, and so there's a certain way, because i'm their child that I must show up in the world.
00:49:10.610 --> 00:49:13.010 Angela: Yeah. I love that.
00:49:13.080 --> 00:49:24.830 Angela: So we've been through the church neighborhood continuum, and we talked about some important teachers that have been helpful in shaping you and helping you rise up.
00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:38.410 Angela: And I wonder if you want to say if now you went to a lot of post secondary schools, I don't know if we have time to talk about them all.
00:49:39.670 --> 00:49:43.080 Angela: We had a good talk about your
00:49:43.490 --> 00:49:51.690 Angela: your Ph. D. Committee and your Yale advisors or professors that you really spoke highly of.
00:49:51.790 --> 00:50:09.530 Angela: And then, after we do that, i'm going to ask you for some tips at the end, so let a rip terrier. We. We only have so much time, so we might have to pick it up. So before we go to my pastday program. I want to start by Howard University because i'm a bison.
00:50:09.530 --> 00:50:14.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I went to a historically black College University Wells women
00:50:15.030 --> 00:50:16.520 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and professors.
00:50:16.890 --> 00:50:35.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Really, my, you know. So my community was the foundation, and they really just drove it home, and that's when I could learn about Mary Macleod with Dune and all those other individuals, so I felt extremely supported, and I understood
00:50:35.940 --> 00:50:40.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that those professors. while they were there to
00:50:41.160 --> 00:50:58.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: nurture me, I could academically and hold me to a high standard because they were gonna kick my butt if I didn't know stuff. I also felt like there was a love and support there as well, because they weren't going to let me slide. That was the thing
00:50:58.170 --> 00:51:15.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that that is the love, because, Angela I also knew that I was representing my community, not just the community of Waterford, Mississippi, but I was representing the African American community, and those professors had high standards of me. So they were an extension of my community. So I think it's important to say that
00:51:16.030 --> 00:51:23.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they were an extension of that, and I think anybody that goes to an Hbc. You especially during that time. You knew that they were an extension.
00:51:24.040 --> 00:51:26.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Don't come to school acting like you don't have any set.
00:51:28.350 --> 00:51:38.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That's it. That because because you do, you wouldn't be if you did so that's the first thing. My, i'm a monitor that the number one Hpc. You right
00:51:38.690 --> 00:51:40.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Then when I
00:51:40.870 --> 00:51:51.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: well, i'll skip over this. I went to another school and got a masters before the Phd program. But I will say this in my Phd. Program, my Dissertation committee.
00:51:52.100 --> 00:51:56.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the advisor that I had. Dr. Norita Millburn
00:51:57.090 --> 00:52:05.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: was an African American woman, and I think I shared this with you. She's the only person in my life who ever intimidated me.
00:52:05.420 --> 00:52:07.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She was tough.
00:52:07.620 --> 00:52:13.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: she was absolutely tough, but she had again high expectations with me.
00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:21.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and when I had to change something on my forum as you're trying to get this dissertation together, they make you write and rewrite and rewrite.
00:52:21.510 --> 00:52:32.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and she's like Carol, and I wouldn't ask you to do it if I didn't think you could do it, but you can do it. And so she kept pushing me more and more and more so. My dissertation committee was made up
00:52:33.700 --> 00:52:37.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of a black woman. a Japanese woman.
00:52:38.090 --> 00:52:40.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Colombian.
00:52:40.150 --> 00:52:49.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and then I had 2 males, 2 black males on my committee, and when I left the room after I defended my dissertation, they said, Taro, it is brave.
00:52:49.680 --> 00:53:02.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but I was brave, because my community had already, in addition to my family, who we'll talk about next week. They already taught me who I could be and what I could do, and then, of course, I walked with God all the time right.
00:53:03.050 --> 00:53:10.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I knew that they weren't going to let me get away with not being the best. and I need to be the best in order to
00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:20.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: a especially as a black woman, because no one is going to necessarily give me anything right, so I know that they need to hold me to those high standards. Those were the women.
00:53:20.670 --> 00:53:31.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: cool I really loved and adored. And then, even as I went on to get my masters of divinity. There were also women who supported me as well on the joining.
00:53:32.030 --> 00:53:48.660 Angela: We have 4 min. I've just been alerted, so we've talked about your community in different ways all the way through this show today, and I I know that they taught you how to build communities. And one of the things I love about you is how you do build community wherever you go.
00:53:48.950 --> 00:54:05.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Can you give us 3 tips for building communities? Yes, so so real quick communities have to to to create a place of safety. I felt safe in in all of those communities. I felt safe because I felt
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:12.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that they want it the best for me that they heard me. and that they saw me.
00:54:12.090 --> 00:54:22.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So if we want to build community just like what i'm teaching my classes, building that community is helping people to feel safe enough with me that they will talk about racism.
00:54:23.220 --> 00:54:36.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that they will talk about their own racism. People aren't going to do that if they don't feel safe, the second thing is is to lead with love. Yes, I lead with love with every single thing that I do.
00:54:36.410 --> 00:54:44.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because when people say crazy stuff. I've gotten better. I don't react. I respond from a place of love.
00:54:45.200 --> 00:54:46.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Go to my high yourself.
00:54:48.010 --> 00:54:55.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And the third thing is, and there are slots more. But I know we're running out of time. The third thing is is to build trust
00:54:55.680 --> 00:55:04.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to be consistent with my word, Don't, say one thing and then do something different. That's who I am.
00:55:04.520 --> 00:55:10.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So it's about creating security and safety love, and then trust
00:55:12.020 --> 00:55:27.720 Angela: that's wonderful. That's wonderful. And some of them depend on each other. Right? So if you're in the and I know that you create a safe place in the coaching and private work that you do so that people can come to that space with love, and they know that
00:55:28.030 --> 00:55:37.760 Angela: it's an agreement right on your side and their side, that we're all I always say there's no them. There's only us. And so we're all in this together, and we're all
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:43.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: safe and trying our best, even if it gets awkward and uncomfortable, right? Right?
00:55:44.910 --> 00:55:47.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because love can hold you through the discomfort.
00:55:48.630 --> 00:56:05.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right? That's important. That's very important. So we're coming to the end of our time together. This has been a delight, and I do hope that you put the recording of our interview in your archive. I will definitely do that, Angela, you
00:56:05.630 --> 00:56:23.120 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: have been a supreme, supreme guest host, and I love the fact that you are a historian who helps me to remember as well. You know, because you pull out the questions that need to be asked in order for me to remember my history in such a way.
00:56:23.170 --> 00:56:30.820 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because I have it. I have people that I remember, and you bring out even more in the questioning. So thank you so much
00:56:30.820 --> 00:56:47.900 Angela: on my show today. I do hope people now, Angela, how can people get in touch with you real quick? Oh, my website is Angela L. todd.com. You can email me, angela@angela.com. I'm on Instagram. Come around.
00:56:47.900 --> 00:57:00.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, and you'll see more of her next week when she comes back to the show to help me really kind of unearth how my family of origin this made me who I am.
00:57:00.430 --> 00:57:06.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Thank you so much to our listeners today. Please stay tuned for the conscious consultant hour with Sam. Leave it with.
00:57:06.770 --> 00:57:30.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Thank you again, Angela Todd, and May. Today you tap into that secret part of you that allows you to make choices that manifest the good, and you and those around. You know that we are all one, and exist because of one another. Make it a priority to share love, whole compassion and peace. Today be well, be safe. Be encouraged until next time, Bye, for now
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