Sandra Kearney has spent the last 8 years in Learning and Development. She launched her own firm, Human Power Solutions in December of 2019. It has been an immediate success due to her network and focuses on client experience. Sandy’s ability to network, serve others and connect people is a large part of her success. Covid-19 has brought some new challenges but also exciting opportunities in the networking world.
Sandra is focused on the current trends of developing new leaders and re-engaging company culture. Sandy earned her Master’s in Organizational Leadership from Nichols College in 2018 and has a BS in Chemistry from Assumption University. She lives in Westborough, MA, is the mother of three kids, 2 grandchildren, and has five siblings
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Graham opens today's show introducing his guest, Sandra Kearney. Sandra owns her own firm called Human Power Solutions and focuses on client experience. She comes to us from Boston Massachusetts. She tells Graham that when she owned a fitness center, she hired a coach to help her in her journey on where she was hoping things would go for her and her fitness center. She ended up working for her business coach after deciding to sell the fitness center seeing that it was doing very well. Sandra would go into organizations and figure out the root of problems. She decided to work on her Master’s degree in Organizational Leadership. She has always loved figuring out what’s happening with people and working with them. When talking about her fitness center, she says that she started her career in hospitality. Sandra dives into how she ended up there in her career as well as her experience with her fitness center which focused more on corporate clients. Sandra also talks with Graham about her work currently with her clients to become better leaders but also improve their relationship with their employees.
Sandra talks about her journey in college working on her degree in chemistry and then going into fitness. She says that although her career has shifted a lot, chemistry has helped her in terms of processes in between different problems; the process to get to the end. Sandra is very process oriented such as coming up with training plans. She collects personality data from her clients and employee engagement data and speaks about how it’s important to know “the pulse” of the company or organization. Sandra and her team have meetings with the company in several groups to get different perspectives about the workplace. The purpose of this is to make sure everyone is being heard on all levels in a company. She speaks about the current trends in management and employees in companies. Sandra also talks about employees moving to other jobs that fit their needs as well as people taking offers that they can’t refuse. She says that employers can improve their culture and find out what their employees want and need. Sandra mentions hybrid working and incorporating a structure that benefits everyone as long as work is getting done. Sandra also makes an interesting point of employers, managers and other leaders needing to set an example for their employees such as the way they work and take time off themselves.
Graham mentions a report from December of last year that stated one of the reasons 40% of people leave their jobs without another in hand is due to uncaring leaders. Another reason was due to unsustainable work performance expectations. Sandra says that soft skills are now essential skills in improving work culture. Sandra sees company culture based on how people treat each other, how decisions are made, and how collaboration is done and more. Sandra gives an example of a company she worked with recently as a client and how improving the culture at a company is everywhere in every industry. Sandra and Graham also speak about Silos in business, why this still exists as well as risk taking to create a culture of trust. They also talk about the skills needed for leadership development. The overall key topic here is communication.
Graham talks more with Sandra about risk taking and what does not work for her. For Sandra, not asking for help was a problem that of course did not work for her. She mentions her experience in the past in a work culture where she didn’t feel allowed to mention ideas or make mistakes. Sandra says that little initiatives and projects are a good way to start in improving trust and company culture. Graham asks what advice she would give her 18 year old self. Thinking about her own children who are around this age, she says to get into a big company first, get the training, delvelopent, network and just put yourself out there. She mentions getting foundational training. Coming out of college and going straight into her industry for example, isn’t necessarily impossible. But she says that you would be coming from an academic standpoint so at the same time, it would be beneficial to go through many experiences to get to where you want to be. If it weren’t for her experiences in her life, who knows where Sandra would be doing today. Graham also asks a question based on taking risks; he asks Sandra about how she knows when she knows enough to be able to do something. She mentions her decision early on to study organizational leadership in order to learn more about her role in helping leaders, speaking with her clients and how it helped her know more enough to ask the right questions. So you will never truly know everything but you will always keep learning and developing. Graham thanks Sandra Kearney for joining him for today’s show.
00:00:37.230 --> 00:00:42.000 Graham Dobbin: Welcome it's 6pm Monday in New York is 9am here in Sydney.
00:00:43.170 --> 00:00:53.310 Graham Dobbin: Australia, we have another episode of the mind behind rulership i'm very lucky to say today we have Sandra carry on with us i'm.
00:00:53.760 --> 00:01:05.760 Graham Dobbin: One of the things that we've noticed just over the last 18 months that we've been doing the show is that leaders are dealing with lots of different things it's a moving target on a regular basis.
00:01:06.360 --> 00:01:13.440 Graham Dobbin: Interestingly, the fundamental seem to still be there, they seem to have I was just looking at some notes and kind of the things that we're working with.
00:01:14.100 --> 00:01:27.090 Graham Dobbin: With readers couple years ago still stand really true today and we're going to put that to the test we're going to we're going to discuss that in a little bit more detail with Sandra who is right on the front line.
00:01:28.260 --> 00:01:30.660 Graham Dobbin: With making sure that leaders are ready.
00:01:31.290 --> 00:01:40.440 Graham Dobbin: To deal with everything this goal around at the moment, so I let me just introduce Sandra county, as I say, Sandra spent eight years, eight years now and learning development space.
00:01:40.800 --> 00:02:00.090 Graham Dobbin: And Sean stone firm human power solutions in December of 2019 and it was an immediate success, due to a large part and relationships, so all about a network and a focus on client experience and Sunday or Sandra as I always call it, you always get set up properly with me.
00:02:01.320 --> 00:02:11.130 Graham Dobbin: As ability to network several others connect with people make sure that you know there's those discussions going on a regular basis, and looking to make sure that.
00:02:11.790 --> 00:02:20.940 Graham Dobbin: People are looked after, has brought not just success, but I can have that continuity during the last couple years where we've had some serious changes.
00:02:21.480 --> 00:02:41.970 Graham Dobbin: And Sandra and her master's in organizational leadership from Nichols college in 2018 she's very clever and has a bs in chemistry from assumption university she lives in the westboro Massachusetts and as a mother of three kids two grandchildren and has five siblings Sandra.
00:02:42.690 --> 00:02:43.020 Sandra Kearney: hey.
00:02:43.470 --> 00:02:44.340 Graham Dobbin: it's great to see you again.
00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:46.710 Sandra Kearney: Nice to be here thanks for having me.
00:02:47.160 --> 00:02:52.320 Graham Dobbin: Here we go so calling in from sunny Sydney whatsoever like over there.
00:02:52.860 --> 00:02:58.140 Sandra Kearney: It is sunny and balmy 52 degrees in the Boston area right that today.
00:02:58.590 --> 00:03:01.530 Graham Dobbin: So you're in Boston you're keeping on a New York radio station.
00:03:01.590 --> 00:03:04.650 Sandra Kearney: Are we good with fine it's fine i'm a big red SOx fan so.
00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:08.820 Graham Dobbin: Here we got the we got the sports references and already.
00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:16.800 Graham Dobbin: Okay, what attracted you to organizational leadership development because this wasn't your original passion wasn't.
00:03:17.940 --> 00:03:33.210 Sandra Kearney: No, it actually wasn't at all I didn't even know that this kind of even existed and I when I owned my fitness Center I had hired a business coach to help me in the last couple years to figure out what I wanted to do, which direction, I want to go into and.
00:03:34.410 --> 00:03:43.800 Sandra Kearney: You know kind of looking at the lifestyle and what he did for our organization was pretty phenomenal So when I decided to sell the Center.
00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:54.060 Sandra Kearney: He asked me to come work for him and I said i'll give it a shot and I really went in there in a sales capacity just strictly to go and sell sell the training.
00:03:55.500 --> 00:04:02.790 Sandra Kearney: What I found after the first year was that I loved it I loved what we did I love to go into organizations and kind of figuring out.
00:04:03.090 --> 00:04:12.330 Sandra Kearney: what's going on and really get to the root cause of what's happening, and it was just really, really fun and I i've always loved to be around people and just get with what's happening with them.
00:04:12.900 --> 00:04:19.140 Sandra Kearney: So I decided to go back and get my master's in organizational leadership, because I just didn't think I just didn't think I knew enough.
00:04:19.620 --> 00:04:26.070 Sandra Kearney: To really go in and do do those kind of deep dives and I, this is what I will do for the rest of my life.
00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:28.260 Graham Dobbin: um.
00:04:29.370 --> 00:04:30.270 Graham Dobbin: that's a big statement.
00:04:30.960 --> 00:04:32.820 Sandra Kearney: yeah but I love it so fun.
00:04:33.960 --> 00:04:37.650 Graham Dobbin: cool that number, I have no idea what would it be when I grow up.
00:04:37.950 --> 00:04:39.000 Graham Dobbin: yeah This is great.
00:04:39.690 --> 00:04:46.110 Graham Dobbin: i'm curious, so you just automatically you you you left school and opened up a fitness Center Is that correct.
00:04:46.530 --> 00:04:48.420 Sandra Kearney: yeah yeah.
00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:51.180 Graham Dobbin: bro you to fitness Center.
00:04:52.110 --> 00:04:58.350 Sandra Kearney: i'm a lot of things just life, so I started my career off in hospitality I worked for Mary out for six years, I worked.
00:04:58.350 --> 00:05:09.900 Sandra Kearney: For brinker international who on chilis for three and I was like the hospitality space, I was always in that in that arena thought I would open up a restaurant because that's really what my love is is food.
00:05:11.010 --> 00:05:18.210 Sandra Kearney: But have my kids and I did restaurant lifestyle wasn't conducive to raising children so.
00:05:19.530 --> 00:05:27.330 Sandra Kearney: My kids had some different issues, and I was home for a little while and went and got my personal Training, Certification says that was flexible and.
00:05:27.840 --> 00:05:35.400 Sandra Kearney: went to work for gym and thought I could do that better, so I opened up my own and that's kind of who send us transition into life.
00:05:35.730 --> 00:05:41.280 Sandra Kearney: But being a personal trainer the fitness and our eye on for seven years was a corporate based fitness Center so.
00:05:41.520 --> 00:05:52.770 Sandra Kearney: We had people from the public, but we really cater to executives, so I spent a lot of time with different levels of CEOs and Vice Presidents and one on one time and being a personal trainer you're.
00:05:53.190 --> 00:05:58.590 Sandra Kearney: you're working with them on their on their personal stuff you don't really dive into business, but it does kind of meld together.
00:05:58.830 --> 00:06:07.560 Sandra Kearney: So now being on this side of it, you know, one of our biggest philosophies is that your CEOs and your Vice Presidents are human they get up in the morning, they take a.
00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:08.280 Sandra Kearney: shower they have.
00:06:08.310 --> 00:06:17.970 Sandra Kearney: breakfast and they leave and I actually like I started off on that side like knowing that they're just human beings, just like everybody else so it's interesting how life happens I guess.
00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:23.010 Graham Dobbin: This is really interesting we've discussed this before I.
00:06:23.400 --> 00:06:25.890 Graham Dobbin: Think you've ever mentioned that part of it about.
00:06:27.090 --> 00:06:39.870 Graham Dobbin: Who your clients were so was there a point where you were training someone and they said something or they did something or there was a continuation of a conversation where you went wow not no that's not just changed my view.
00:06:40.500 --> 00:06:49.950 Sandra Kearney: yeah absolutely I mean you're with these people twice a week at you know, five or six in the morning for an hour before they head out or after work when they're stressed out and they've had a day.
00:06:50.310 --> 00:06:57.450 Sandra Kearney: it's just like it's kind of like being a hairdresser you hear everything you're a safe third party you don't know anyone that they're working with so.
00:06:57.690 --> 00:07:10.110 Sandra Kearney: We talked about we just talked about a lot of different things, and because I, you know, had a lot of different experiences in corporate America, and you know fairly smart person, it was you know really interesting to me to have these conversations.
00:07:13.260 --> 00:07:21.480 Graham Dobbin: Football with the surprises with it was it just that they were human you kind of mentioned that that they get up and do these do these regular things or was it.
00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:24.750 Sandra Kearney: Something yeah yeah their stresses are just like everyone else's they.
00:07:24.750 --> 00:07:40.800 Sandra Kearney: Have kids with with issues they've got parents that they're taking care of it's it's they're no better than no better no worse, they just make a little more money and have a have a higher title, but the problems are bigger I think at some at some level.
00:07:41.850 --> 00:07:56.010 Sandra Kearney: But I really you know they're just I think when they came in to see me it was just relax like Oh, I can just be myself, and I think that was the biggest thing is just how they're all human everybody's human we're all the same, regardless of our title.
00:07:56.460 --> 00:08:01.170 Graham Dobbin: It you know we do hear this a lot that is lonely at the top.
00:08:01.860 --> 00:08:02.280 Sandra Kearney: mm hmm.
00:08:02.370 --> 00:08:12.570 Graham Dobbin: um I know that there's a number of books about it and there's been a lot of kind of podcasts and everything just talking about how leaders deal with that.
00:08:13.200 --> 00:08:24.120 Graham Dobbin: And i'm just curious just from what you've said there, and whether we should be kind of speaking to the employees a little bit more than letting them know what's happening up there when decisions are being made.
00:08:25.980 --> 00:08:35.670 Sandra Kearney: I think that that's a big part of the executive leadership training or sessions or workshops when we're doing our retreat with executives.
00:08:36.540 --> 00:08:51.300 Sandra Kearney: or even when we're having a one to one sessions with executives, my question is how well do you know your employees, I think, because that's just real key employees aren't going to come up to an executive and go, how was your weekend until they until they're.
00:08:51.450 --> 00:08:54.210 Sandra Kearney: given permission, either by the executive doing that.
00:08:54.960 --> 00:09:05.460 Sandra Kearney: or just that's just the culture of the company, so I firmly believe that the executives, are the ones that drive that kind of relationship it's not going to come from the employees, I don't think.
00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:14.610 Graham Dobbin: So that so that the cello people to access to kind of understand what's going on, on a daily basis, the stresses and strains and everything.
00:09:14.940 --> 00:09:15.330 Sandra Kearney: Will.
00:09:15.570 --> 00:09:18.510 Graham Dobbin: be approaching and making themselves a little bit more often.
00:09:19.230 --> 00:09:22.050 Sandra Kearney: yeah just more visible, if you if you work in up, I was at a.
00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:25.770 Sandra Kearney: manufacturing company last week or two weeks ago and.
00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:29.370 Sandra Kearney: You know that was one of the biggest things that that it was.
00:09:29.940 --> 00:09:35.490 Sandra Kearney: fairly new CEO and you know, and they were like we don't really know him, I mean he worked here, but we don't really know them and.
00:09:35.760 --> 00:09:45.000 Sandra Kearney: And that was kind of the feedback that we got from the production area so that was one of the first thing we're back to the executive team said start walking around don't look for problems just say good morning.
00:09:45.540 --> 00:09:45.720 See.
00:09:47.820 --> 00:09:56.130 Graham Dobbin: here's the thing don't look for problems because that tends to be good, and this difficult conversations were having so regular ones that we need to have.
00:09:56.580 --> 00:10:08.790 Graham Dobbin: Just the everyday conversations there's an exercise that I do, and I do almost every single section know which is this kind of five minutes or getting people to get to know each other, Linda slight we structured the way.
00:10:10.020 --> 00:10:19.320 Graham Dobbin: I continuously people we've worked together for years know each other, personally, and all of a sudden more information POPs out and five minutes than they've ever had in the past.
00:10:19.740 --> 00:10:24.120 Sandra Kearney: yeah yeah we did it we do a really fun exercise that we've been doing lately.
00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:34.860 Sandra Kearney: That we have everyone write down on a piece of paper why they why they joined the industry, and so the whole group writes it down like why they join this particular industry and then.
00:10:35.250 --> 00:10:39.180 Sandra Kearney: One of us will read it out, and they have to guess who the person is it wrote it down.
00:10:39.660 --> 00:10:55.890 Sandra Kearney: So it really it's really kind of a cool exercise so they're like oh I didn't know that your your uncle worked here, or you know I didn't know that you did this first and so those conversations are pretty they're pretty funny so i'm just doing things to connect people.
00:10:56.160 --> 00:11:01.410 Graham Dobbin: You know when when I know you and I have spoken about this before one of the one of the things that.
00:11:02.250 --> 00:11:09.900 Graham Dobbin: I always take into any sections that we're working with, even if it's in house everybody's got a different story a different journey to work.
00:11:10.170 --> 00:11:18.390 Graham Dobbin: Different family situation to went to bed at a different time they got up at a different time so to treat everybody, the same it's just we can do it yet.
00:11:19.020 --> 00:11:27.750 Graham Dobbin: But been training that tends to happen we're kind of getting a syllabus and say do one, two and three and four it'll work and that's certainly not the case.
00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:34.950 Sandra Kearney: it's not it really isn't it's so I don't know I like I think you and I have talked a lot the.
00:11:35.370 --> 00:11:42.180 Sandra Kearney: training sessions or training, but if there were more workshop style where people are actually working together to fix to fix issues.
00:11:42.540 --> 00:11:51.150 Sandra Kearney: In that's really what I think is really important thing, and when they do a disc assessment or they do a predictive index, and you realize like who the team is and.
00:11:51.360 --> 00:12:02.850 Sandra Kearney: And what that is and putting those people together to say hey this is how you know this is how this person likes to be communicated to this yo you need this person in this conversation because they're going to look at it from from another lens and you are.
00:12:02.850 --> 00:12:04.230 Sandra Kearney: In your whole group right.
00:12:05.250 --> 00:12:05.940 Sandra Kearney: So yeah.
00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:09.270 Sandra Kearney: yeah the word training is challenging because it.
00:12:10.410 --> 00:12:12.180 Sandra Kearney: You know it's like you're training a dog.
00:12:12.330 --> 00:12:18.750 Graham Dobbin: Yes, absolutely so training isn't kind of one way train, I suppose, training and teaching suggest that's one way.
00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:25.950 Graham Dobbin: Whereas, whereas this is more facilitation we'll talk a little bit about and you've just kind of raised something there about.
00:12:26.400 --> 00:12:35.820 Graham Dobbin: Assessments etc and we'll talk about data, a little bit later because one of the things that certainly is jumping out is that we don't have enough data.
00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:51.690 Graham Dobbin: There what's going on and there's been so much change in the in the in the last year and also not going to let you get away with us, we spoke about fitness centers of kind of what i'm really, really curious if somebody has a degree in chemistry.
00:12:52.830 --> 00:13:02.460 Graham Dobbin: and ends up at your Center as well we're going to go for a break in a moment, and when we come back we'll talk about that we'll talk about data and then we'll get into what's really happening.
00:13:03.210 --> 00:13:10.500 Graham Dobbin: within businesses over the over the last over the last few months since we've last spoken and just kind of find out.
00:13:11.310 --> 00:13:12.690 Graham Dobbin: What the different approaches are.
00:13:13.140 --> 00:13:21.390 Graham Dobbin: Are we seeing something different, because one of the one of the unique things we've got here Sandra is that you're seeing in the US i'm seeing in Australia we're slightly behind the car fear of what's happening.
00:13:21.690 --> 00:13:26.430 Graham Dobbin: And everybody's gone through the same things, but in a in a slightly different way.
00:13:26.640 --> 00:13:41.100 Graham Dobbin: So let's kind of put that to test will come back after these messages and we'll just stick in that little bit For those of you listening to talk radio dot nyc the main buying leadership and we're lucky enough to have Sandra can be with us today we'll be back after these.
00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:45.750 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Are you a business owner, do you want to be a business.
00:13:45.750 --> 00:13:46.050 Sandra Kearney: owner.
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00:15:58.830 --> 00:16:10.320 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back you're listening to the mind buying leadership live on talk radio dot nyc live from Sydney in New York talking to somebody in Boston This is all bit weird i'm.
00:16:11.130 --> 00:16:24.000 Graham Dobbin: curious, you mentioned the exercise that one of the things you do cannot allow allow everybody to see the background off of other people how they got into business how they kind of got to that point, how did you go from chemistry to fitness Center.
00:16:25.170 --> 00:16:33.600 Sandra Kearney: You know I think going to college added to a team at that I want to be a doctor so that's what I majored in took a year off and.
00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:39.870 Sandra Kearney: I just really loved hospitality, so I put my way through college I cooked I was always in the back of the House.
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:47.640 Sandra Kearney: Two summers down Cape cod, where I grew up and through school, you know made pizzas all that and I just love the industry so.
00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:53.310 Sandra Kearney: When I was going to take a year off mariette actually had our contract at call, and in my at my school.
00:16:53.610 --> 00:17:02.460 Sandra Kearney: And I was a student manager there and I was like i'm taking a year off and she's like I want you to apply to the management program and Marriott and that was it so it was just one of those things.
00:17:02.730 --> 00:17:11.160 Sandra Kearney: But what chemistry has provided with for me is processes, because you know there's always an answer, there is always a process to get to the end.
00:17:11.610 --> 00:17:27.780 Sandra Kearney: So you know I I always look at everything that's happened and that's just foundational Lee i'm very process oriented, so I mean it really has helped me especially in this arena, where we're coming up with training plans and we're kind of trying to go after problems what.
00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:35.640 Graham Dobbin: Was the challenge with coming up with with training plans and kind of deciphering the the the part information that you get.
00:17:36.690 --> 00:17:42.630 Graham Dobbin: Because that's what I that's how it is a lot of the time is a you know people don't kind of know what information they need to be giving out.
00:17:43.710 --> 00:17:52.770 Sandra Kearney: yeah a lot of times, we will talk as well when we're meeting with our teams and the managers and for doing a discovery day.
00:17:53.250 --> 00:18:04.020 Sandra Kearney: i'll come up with or one of our team will come up with hey, this is what we think, and this is what we plan to do but and we've warned them oftentimes we get in and plan changes completely.
00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:04.560 Graham Dobbin: Once we.
00:18:04.830 --> 00:18:11.550 Sandra Kearney: really get in there, you know you do the best you can you ask, as many questions as you can but it's only as good as the information that you get.
00:18:12.690 --> 00:18:14.250 Graham Dobbin: So we're back into data.
00:18:14.850 --> 00:18:16.110 Sandra Kearney: We are love data.
00:18:17.490 --> 00:18:22.410 Graham Dobbin: um talk me through how, how do you get data to put you into a position where.
00:18:23.730 --> 00:18:32.310 Graham Dobbin: you've got that confidence that you're saying this, this is where we need to be going, this is what we're seeing that it's not necessarily jumping out in the business, what kind of things do you do.
00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:40.950 Sandra Kearney: This there's two kinds of data right there's the personality data, which is the desk or predictive index we use predictive index for the most part, with our clients.
00:18:41.130 --> 00:18:52.620 Sandra Kearney: But we know disk and HP di you name it the science is all the same, so you know we get the data on the on the team and with the team composite is, but then there's also the employee engagement data.
00:18:53.280 --> 00:19:03.510 Sandra Kearney: So you know we oftentimes will ask our you know our clients, have you done employee engagement survey, do you use software like whoa what is it that you, you know how do you.
00:19:03.870 --> 00:19:11.280 Sandra Kearney: How you gauging how engage your employees are, and I think that that is is really important, if you have both of those.
00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:15.270 Sandra Kearney: Because, then you then you kind of have a pulse of the organization.
00:19:15.510 --> 00:19:23.820 Sandra Kearney: The other thing that we do is we love to do our discovery days, where we meet our executive team and we sit down for an hour hour and a half, with them on what they perceive as being the issues.
00:19:24.120 --> 00:19:32.370 Sandra Kearney: And then have a meeting with the middle management team and what they perceive as the issues and then have a meeting with some focus groups in production or wherever you know, wherever they are.
00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:44.820 Sandra Kearney: And then kind of marrying those those things together, so the questions are really the same about with all three of those groups, you can really get a lot of information out of that out of those sessions, so what really.
00:19:45.870 --> 00:19:46.890 Graham Dobbin: Why those important.
00:19:47.970 --> 00:19:50.580 Sandra Kearney: Well, everybody has a different perspective.
00:19:50.820 --> 00:19:52.980 Sandra Kearney: And everyone's coming from a different lens and everyone is.
00:19:52.980 --> 00:20:02.760 Sandra Kearney: Coming from a different walk of life and different philosophies We always talk about how everyone has their own stories, you know you always get your story that you have in your head that you've been told.
00:20:03.150 --> 00:20:06.630 Sandra Kearney: And I think people at different levels in the organization either.
00:20:07.620 --> 00:20:13.380 Sandra Kearney: If you're at the executive level sometimes you're thinking, the whole picture you know the end game, and all that.
00:20:13.620 --> 00:20:23.760 Sandra Kearney: And you know people in a lower level thinking can I put food on the table and can I get do I have enough money for gas or front for my medicine right look at the gas prices now it's big.
00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:36.450 Sandra Kearney: So you know just getting all those different perspectives and what's important to everybody, and how can you how can you really relay that message all all around so people feel like they're being heard on every level.
00:20:37.800 --> 00:20:38.310 Graham Dobbin: um.
00:20:40.500 --> 00:20:49.710 Graham Dobbin: it's interesting i've seen so many different different ways of looking employee engagement gathering that type of data, how do we make sure that's accurate.
00:20:51.060 --> 00:20:53.970 Sandra Kearney: I think, offering that safe space doing it live.
00:20:54.330 --> 00:20:59.970 Sandra Kearney: is one thing, like really getting groups together and offering a really safe space if i'm sitting down with a group.
00:21:01.140 --> 00:21:10.290 Sandra Kearney: They get it, they know that's just my vibe right, so they know, whatever they say is is what they say and you know, for me, when i'm talking to them.
00:21:10.710 --> 00:21:17.340 Sandra Kearney: To any level it's you know if you don't tell me, we don't know and we can't create design programs that are going to be effective here.
00:21:17.670 --> 00:21:30.390 Sandra Kearney: So you know if you're looking for a check the box training and you think you're telling me what I want to hear we're not your company so that's really I think it benefits everyone in the organization if they're honest and open so.
00:21:30.870 --> 00:21:34.620 Graham Dobbin: So, so what you're seeing at the moment, who appears to focus coming out now.
00:21:35.790 --> 00:21:36.120 Sandra Kearney: merging.
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:43.440 Sandra Kearney: The middle management new supervisor hybrid environment is really hard to navigate.
00:21:45.150 --> 00:21:58.290 Sandra Kearney: managers who are we're okay before the pandemic are now being kind of like they're wide open now it's now they're being exposed so in the end, the lack of skill and the lack of training.
00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:01.080 Sandra Kearney: They promote from within is great.
00:22:02.250 --> 00:22:20.730 Sandra Kearney: If there's a training program to allow them to succeed, a lot what we're seeing now is this poor managers that have been promoted to management with zero training and support so we're we're seeing a lot of turnover in that regard lot of frustration and you know just.
00:22:22.110 --> 00:22:31.410 Sandra Kearney: Just the staffing piece, you know, we need to retain our employees, we need to retain our employees by treating them the right way and be able to talk about conflict and delegate and all those good things.
00:22:31.890 --> 00:22:43.440 Graham Dobbin: But we don't we with again really curious about this, because this seems to tie in where are we with the what was known as a few months ago, the great resignation, it seems a real your town, no.
00:22:43.830 --> 00:22:54.360 Graham Dobbin: I don't know why it just seems to be a day, and there was only like three or four months ago that it was the in thing that everyone's talking about and Twitter without without can add that what force movement.
00:22:55.050 --> 00:22:59.490 Sandra Kearney: Is not resignation they're moving to moving into environments that they want to be in.
00:23:00.450 --> 00:23:10.950 Sandra Kearney: They move into you know employees that will employers allow people to work hybrid late or fully remote, I mean that's what you're saying and then you're seeing dollars being thrown at people.
00:23:11.580 --> 00:23:18.750 Sandra Kearney: I mean, I talked to one client today prospective client today and he's like i'm losing my best person she took an offer, she can't refuse and we can't beat it.
00:23:20.040 --> 00:23:30.510 Sandra Kearney: And that's what's happening so talent is you know they are, they are in control, right now, so I don't really think it was a resignation I just think it was people looking for a better situation.
00:23:31.170 --> 00:23:34.800 Graham Dobbin: Okay, and so that's that's still very relevant to the woman over there.
00:23:35.010 --> 00:23:37.380 Sandra Kearney: yeah yeah definitely yes, yes, definitely.
00:23:38.820 --> 00:23:41.760 Graham Dobbin: What can employers do the budget would it be think.
00:23:43.140 --> 00:23:44.490 Sandra Kearney: A improve their culture.
00:23:45.750 --> 00:23:54.780 Sandra Kearney: Talk to their employees more find out what they want, what they need set clear be decisive, you know set clear expectations but have conversations about those.
00:23:54.780 --> 00:24:01.980 Graham Dobbin: expectations, this is still just soft stuff improve culture and talk more another thing bye bye bye bye doesn't make a difference.
00:24:04.230 --> 00:24:06.600 Sandra Kearney: that's what people are looking for now hi.
00:24:06.780 --> 00:24:09.120 Graham Dobbin: So they're looking for that connection, rather than.
00:24:09.300 --> 00:24:12.930 Graham Dobbin: kind of the nine to five are going to do this process or do this function.
00:24:13.350 --> 00:24:13.950 and
00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:16.650 Sandra Kearney: Why can't wait, you know and.
00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:17.640 Sandra Kearney: yeah I mean.
00:24:19.230 --> 00:24:27.000 Sandra Kearney: it's it's just everyone, not everyone, but a lot of people want that flexibility, the hybrid they work in two days a week or three days a week in the office.
00:24:27.360 --> 00:24:34.560 Sandra Kearney: is really working for a lot of people that's what we're finding people definitely want to go back to the office but they don't want to go back full time.
00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:51.390 Sandra Kearney: And so I think that it's if the job can be done, you know both ways, you know, have a structure, you know put some structure in place around it, you know, like everyone's in the office on Thursdays, you know, so we can all be together on Thursday whatever whatever that is.
00:24:51.420 --> 00:24:51.900 Sandra Kearney: Right yeah.
00:24:52.260 --> 00:24:58.020 Sandra Kearney: um but it, it is a, it is a culture shift, but it can be done really well.
00:24:59.370 --> 00:24:59.820 Graham Dobbin: um.
00:25:01.890 --> 00:25:04.080 Graham Dobbin: it's interesting one of the things that happens.
00:25:05.130 --> 00:25:10.560 Graham Dobbin: When this kind of hybrid start off where we were forced to move and work from home.
00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:26.610 Graham Dobbin: Was that people did kind of that demarcation it didn't know when to stop working when to start working the but answering emails at all times, but I have some from so many companies, this is great everybody's been really productive and right away, we knew that was going to be a problem.
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:29.010 Graham Dobbin: That people weren't switching off.
00:25:29.430 --> 00:25:30.780 Graham Dobbin: So they went looking after themselves.
00:25:30.990 --> 00:25:34.740 Graham Dobbin: How is that working you mentioned processes is that change, do you think.
00:25:35.730 --> 00:25:44.220 Sandra Kearney: I think so, one of our focuses is if we're doing a training plan for our employee our companies, we always put in a workplace wellness module in there.
00:25:44.490 --> 00:25:45.750 Sandra Kearney: To help people like.
00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:48.420 Sandra Kearney: How did that, how can you manage your time.
00:25:48.600 --> 00:25:57.000 Sandra Kearney: You know what kinds of things can you do to distress yourself that's a big part of what of what we do, because i'm i'm a firm believer in that.
00:25:57.900 --> 00:26:09.450 Sandra Kearney: I think that you know employers need to employers and managers need to take the lead, they need to take a break, they need to shut down, they need to turn themselves on read.
00:26:10.110 --> 00:26:15.900 Sandra Kearney: From 12 to one or that they're taking a lunch, because they because what's happening what we're seeing what's happening.
00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:22.500 Sandra Kearney: Is that your leaders are just go and everyone is just going to work in their work and they're not taking the downtime so the employees are like.
00:26:23.310 --> 00:26:31.500 Sandra Kearney: I can't take that i've got to work, the same way, so we're asking our leaders to you know you need to set the example.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:42.300 Sandra Kearney: Of that this is really what you want them to do, and you need to check in and say hey Have you taken a break today and not shut down and go regardless of what's going on 10 minutes isn't going to kill anybody.
00:26:43.410 --> 00:26:56.310 Graham Dobbin: To close, the things that doesn't happen that that's that's really interesting I kinda i've seen that in so many different ways, obviously I think you've just kind of frame this slightly differently there what's the danger for the leaders don't do that.
00:26:57.690 --> 00:27:01.770 Sandra Kearney: You know that they're going to create a culture where people are afraid to take that time.
00:27:02.790 --> 00:27:07.590 Sandra Kearney: or they just don't know how to ask for it, or they just don't know how to set their own boundaries.
00:27:08.280 --> 00:27:22.350 Sandra Kearney: So, and then that burnout happens and then all of that, and then all of a sudden they're moving they're losing top talent, to go somewhere else, that that is conducive to that environment so that's what that's the danger you're going to lose people.
00:27:24.060 --> 00:27:35.190 Graham Dobbin: Interesting what I think that we've done in the office can everybody in on a Monday and Friday part from this is a bit of a bit for free rein, being able to walk away and.
00:27:36.780 --> 00:27:42.060 Graham Dobbin: When we come back after the break i'm really curious to dig into what What challenges we're seeing with that remote working.
00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:56.100 Graham Dobbin: Because we do we talked about it's working we're getting productive people are enjoying it, but I know that there are challenges as well, especially around communication we're working there, and you mentioned company culture earlier.
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:14.970 Graham Dobbin: A great a great believer in not playing it safe doing something slightly different so i'm going to just know interested to find out if you've got any any companies or do something that just just that little bit different to engage people to see it in a slightly different way.
00:28:18.510 --> 00:28:31.620 Graham Dobbin: And you mentioned something earlier, how do you know when you got enough or how'd you know when you got enough knowledge to set you said earlier, you didn't know if you knew enough about something and then were you did you moved on.
00:28:32.490 --> 00:28:36.720 Graham Dobbin: curious about how do we help people to know that then we're not actually to take a risk.
00:28:37.290 --> 00:28:46.080 Graham Dobbin: Because everything i'm hearing today is about taking risks you take you've taken lots of risks in what you've done applying you know study for Chemistry then decided to take a change.
00:28:46.830 --> 00:28:54.960 Graham Dobbin: becoming a becoming a fitness and shopped at and opening up a fitness Center and then having a coach, which is a.
00:28:55.680 --> 00:29:13.980 Graham Dobbin: risk a business coach and name changing industry completely so kind of want to understand where risk comes into this for leaders is going for rejoicing, to the main bind leadership we have Sandra Kennedy from human power solutions on your on talk radio dot nyc will be back after these.
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00:31:23.370 --> 00:31:29.010 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back to the mind behind leadership we have Sandra kidney on here from human power solution Sandra.
00:31:29.580 --> 00:31:46.200 Graham Dobbin: Sintra so we're just talking about data and you had something you know just grabbed it and McKinsey report from the end of last year from December last year top reasons why people leave the job without without even another enhance 40% of them i'm kidding leaders.
00:31:47.550 --> 00:31:53.640 Graham Dobbin: uncaring readers and just under that was unsustainable what performance expectations.
00:31:55.110 --> 00:32:05.820 Graham Dobbin: So you know we can talk about a whole load of other ideas and thoughts and everything out, but when uncaring leaders comes into its this is this changes the game completely doesn't it.
00:32:06.330 --> 00:32:21.570 Sandra Kearney: It does it does and it's been a hard transition for our leaders to wrap their brains around that it really has been so I know you've kind of made fun of me a little bit about being soft but it's essential skills anymore they're essential skills, you have to have them.
00:32:23.310 --> 00:32:24.240 Sandra Kearney: I had a.
00:32:24.270 --> 00:32:30.300 Graham Dobbin: hard time grandma yeah I just I just think it was giving me a hard time, I think it was being provoking I think that's it that's it that's it.
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:44.610 Graham Dobbin: So let's talk about culture, I see so let's talk about culture, because I hear this word thrown around so many times and there's so many things, and you know we we have pizza Friday, or something and that creates a culture or.
00:32:45.810 --> 00:32:52.920 Graham Dobbin: One of the things let's talk about what speaks he really interested, you know this was a company, I was, I was heavily involved with in New York was we work.
00:32:53.430 --> 00:32:54.120 Graham Dobbin: And how.
00:32:55.080 --> 00:33:05.550 Graham Dobbin: So many programs know come about what happened there was a business model but let's look at what their culture was that they tried to create you know, having free coffee.
00:33:05.970 --> 00:33:15.810 Graham Dobbin: breakout areas beer all this kind of stuff that's kind of labeled as culture that's that's stuck in the box, but how do you see company culture.
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:20.310 Sandra Kearney: I really I really see it is how people are treating each other.
00:33:20.550 --> 00:33:26.550 Sandra Kearney: that's really how I see it, how decisions are made, what kind of collaboration, they have.
00:33:27.570 --> 00:33:38.670 Sandra Kearney: How their meetings are run you know, is a respect for time I think so much of it yeah you can do pizza and you can do whatever like all that stuff is all good fine.
00:33:39.630 --> 00:33:45.030 Sandra Kearney: But in the end, the real culture says, do you think about your family right you think about how you want.
00:33:45.360 --> 00:33:53.700 Sandra Kearney: You know, you want to have this this trusting environment where you know, hopefully, where you can you know talk to people and share ideas and you know.
00:33:54.120 --> 00:34:06.210 Sandra Kearney: innovate together collaborate versus those silos you know that's that's when I think about culture that's what we are always trying to create you know we're working in the autumn auto body industry.
00:34:06.540 --> 00:34:19.080 Sandra Kearney: Emily right now for and so we're doing a lot with them and, last week I was with one of our groups and I don't do a ton of training myself, these days, but I, but I pick and choose the clients and things that I love to do and.
00:34:19.740 --> 00:34:24.570 Sandra Kearney: Last week I was with one of my shops and we had people from paint from.
00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:34.890 Sandra Kearney: From the welding from management with everyone in the group everyone together and there was a bunch of side conversations that were going on, which was, I was kind of.
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:44.490 Sandra Kearney: asking them certain processes and things that they were doing customer the customer experience and they solved a bunch of problems that day because.
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:57.630 Sandra Kearney: There they were in silos and they didn't understand why one group was doing this, they just didn't know and I got an email today from the owner saying hey can we talk about creating some Ambassador committee groups, because what we did last week was.
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:03.630 Sandra Kearney: he's like we have we there was a lot of breakthroughs because we're all we're talking into departmental.
00:35:03.900 --> 00:35:14.430 Sandra Kearney: So we have a call next week to talk about you know how do we create Ambassador groups, and this is an out of body industry this isn't you know this isn't your CPA firm your law firm this This needs to happen everywhere.
00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:24.660 Graham Dobbin: But this isn't you we've been talking about this weight, since the 60s and 70s, Jim Collins writes about to we talk about silos why Why is this happening.
00:35:26.160 --> 00:35:40.410 Sandra Kearney: I have no idea I really don't I think people get comfortable they get comfortable in their roles they get comfortable in their positions they you know it's hard to change is hard to like you were like we're saying before the break.
00:35:40.590 --> 00:35:44.460 Sandra Kearney: it's hard to take risks, because the risks are scary.
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:48.450 Sandra Kearney: But the reward at the end is pretty incredible so.
00:35:49.590 --> 00:35:52.980 Graham Dobbin: And here's the thing, most people have actually taken lots of risks and the life.
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:56.520 Graham Dobbin: They just don't necessarily recognize it as a risk at the time.
00:35:57.120 --> 00:35:59.490 Graham Dobbin: And we look, you know.
00:36:01.200 --> 00:36:08.430 Graham Dobbin: What one of the things I always think is when we talked about sales were talking with people working we hear these words we actually dig into what the meaning of them are.
00:36:09.060 --> 00:36:26.010 Graham Dobbin: Of what the impact of it is or how does it show up, how do we know that that's happening so we can have any time to speak to our company, we talked about silos they say yes that's not good i'm not convinced actually know why it's not good, or what actually meal what a sale looks like.
00:36:27.030 --> 00:36:32.910 Graham Dobbin: And and annoying organizational development learning development that a lot of the times we use kind of jargon.
00:36:33.930 --> 00:36:46.170 Graham Dobbin: And, and sometimes it's just breaking that down see that's how it feels nice a result of it, this is what comes out when you do it that way, so I don't care if we call a siloed anything you say.
00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:50.700 Graham Dobbin: It just they just kind of need to do something slightly different so.
00:36:52.380 --> 00:36:59.610 Sandra Kearney: I think it's like a trust you know I think people stay in their comfort zone, because it's lack of trust you they trust themselves or trusting the other people.
00:36:59.670 --> 00:37:00.120 Sandra Kearney: So.
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:06.420 Sandra Kearney: You know, and I think you're right when us when we use terms you know all these kind of terms that i've never been a big fan of.
00:37:06.720 --> 00:37:19.200 Sandra Kearney: it's like when your personal training and Oh well, you have to you know kind of train your your hip flexor in your whatever it's like no it's it's it's your hip you know roll your hip hop it's it, you know that all the jargon is fine.
00:37:19.680 --> 00:37:22.290 Sandra Kearney: But give people some things that they can understand.
00:37:25.230 --> 00:37:31.740 Graham Dobbin: for survival rates a personal trainer he was asked me to do things of what i've no idea will pop up, that is just no idea.
00:37:34.350 --> 00:37:35.040 Sandra Kearney: it's like I don't care.
00:37:36.150 --> 00:37:38.010 Graham Dobbin: it's a really good analogy yeah.
00:37:39.120 --> 00:37:41.910 Sandra Kearney: You don't care how much you know it's what results can you get.
00:37:42.330 --> 00:37:43.170 Sandra Kearney: What results.
00:37:43.200 --> 00:37:52.230 Sandra Kearney: What is the end result I you know I i'm not a jargon person, but I know that will get you the results you're looking for things change.
00:37:52.410 --> 00:38:03.570 Graham Dobbin: yeah when when I was out for a persona a social gathering, a few weeks ago, and someone asked me why did Buddha spoke about leadership development descent to me.
00:38:04.260 --> 00:38:15.570 Graham Dobbin: get this I don't believe in any of that that's just rubbish and I went wow and she said, do you actually believe in it and I quite possibly yes it's something I do.
00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:32.280 Graham Dobbin: And I can hold it hold of persuade someone that they actually doing something, the only thing I could come up with was look at every one of the biggest companies and most successful companies in the world, we invest more on the people than anything else.
00:38:33.540 --> 00:38:44.130 Graham Dobbin: Non technology not and everything else that technology is only used if the people are there for it it's only used properly, in the end in and the creativity comes not through.
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:52.350 Graham Dobbin: Just not through technologist it's the people's the brain power that actually does it, and given that safe space, which then takes us into risk.
00:38:53.460 --> 00:38:59.820 Graham Dobbin: How do we create that that environment where risks that you mentioned emerging leaders is that is the big thing at the moment.
00:39:00.750 --> 00:39:07.050 Graham Dobbin: I agree we're seeing that exactly here that's exactly what's going on, but people can look at succession planning.
00:39:07.620 --> 00:39:13.740 Graham Dobbin: or even from graduate level graduate programs and know coming in with leadership elements to it.
00:39:14.550 --> 00:39:30.180 Graham Dobbin: of how do we, how do we add in doors, if we want to call them soft skills which i'm never quite comfortable with that term particularly you know away from the just the technical side and how do we build in that creativity that risk or push what's your thoughts on that.
00:39:31.170 --> 00:39:39.750 Sandra Kearney: I think its first of all, it starts with with training doing some workshops, you know teaching those skills that you need do those.
00:39:40.200 --> 00:39:48.120 Sandra Kearney: The critical thinking that decision making trees root cause analysis I think they I think you need to do anything you think you need to do hard skills.
00:39:48.390 --> 00:40:03.900 Sandra Kearney: To to give people the tools that they need to be able to innovate and take those risks and to be able to calculate those risks right, and then you need, then, the culture of trust, so that hey yeah go ahead and try that idea, and if it falls flat it falls flat.
00:40:04.950 --> 00:40:16.170 Sandra Kearney: So Okay, you know I mean I think you've got to allow people to make mistakes and and that's how they're going to grow, obviously, if it's a big project that's that's cost millions of dollars or.
00:40:16.380 --> 00:40:26.460 Sandra Kearney: You know there's gonna be some some oversight, but you know you know you've been through this before the situational leadership and in the quadrants where you're in that your directive stage and you go the coaching stage and.
00:40:27.060 --> 00:40:37.230 Sandra Kearney: All that right it's it's it's understanding that when you're asking when you create that culture of risk, you have to also have to understand the person's competency.
00:40:37.710 --> 00:40:44.070 Sandra Kearney: So how well how competent that person is that you're giving this project to or you're saying this is your project.
00:40:44.430 --> 00:40:50.490 Sandra Kearney: And you can go ahead and do is it as you see fit, make sure they have the competency it and do that, and if they don't.
00:40:50.730 --> 00:41:02.070 Sandra Kearney: Then let them know i'm going to check in with you all along the way it might seem like i'm micromanaging you, but I want to help you learn this skill, so the next project I can delegate a little bit more to you.
00:41:02.550 --> 00:41:09.090 Sandra Kearney: I mean it's just creating that culture of trust me i'm going to get you there and then you're going to get yourself there after we're done.
00:41:10.410 --> 00:41:23.580 Graham Dobbin: i'm a supposes that there's a, especially as we get older and people make a little bit more protective and the rules if that if that in a in a job that is probably a great desire to play it safe at times.
00:41:24.810 --> 00:41:39.870 Graham Dobbin: and especially with of teams so, is it the emerging leaders that we need to work with to allow them to have that creativity things slightly differently, or is it kind of those more experienced leaders and say if we keep playing it safe, this is where we're going.
00:41:40.770 --> 00:41:48.960 Sandra Kearney: I think it's a combination, I think you need to do generational training, I think that you know, we need to make sure that each generation that's in the workplace.
00:41:49.740 --> 00:41:58.500 Sandra Kearney: Is is working together and understand that each generation has their strengths that they bring to the table and how do you draw upon those strengths and not say well.
00:41:58.770 --> 00:42:06.210 Sandra Kearney: I know better i've been doing this for 30 years you know, this is the way we've always done it versus someone looking at it gone wait, I think we can do it this way.
00:42:07.080 --> 00:42:21.120 Sandra Kearney: How do we, how do we help them communicate and come together, so I don't think it's one or the other, I think it's you know getting people together, you know again grandma's communication right it's just communication it's not that hard.
00:42:23.370 --> 00:42:25.530 Graham Dobbin: As if we don't know it that's and.
00:42:25.530 --> 00:42:27.300 Graham Dobbin: that's probably the key.
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:41.070 Graham Dobbin: Is that one of the things that's may be obvious to you and I, because we're working with so many different companies is is just looking at it just ever so slightly These are big shifts but looking at it slightly.
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:50.190 Graham Dobbin: A different way and we're talking about risk we're talking about movement we're talking about different things that are happening in teams even even know it's.
00:42:50.580 --> 00:42:57.660 Graham Dobbin: Some of its obvious we're going to have a final break when we come back i'm curious really curious now Sandra.
00:42:58.200 --> 00:43:11.850 Graham Dobbin: what's kind of some of the things that's not what for you, we talk about things that have worked for us all the time, a resumes are full of all these successful things and we did this, we did they're going to be curious and business.
00:43:12.600 --> 00:43:17.610 Graham Dobbin: kind of course maybe not what are you would change have a slightly and.
00:43:18.120 --> 00:43:30.090 Graham Dobbin: And also dig in just a little bit one of the first culture, how we get that how we get that feeling of of being able to to be creative as every one of the biggest companies in the world do.
00:43:30.540 --> 00:43:41.700 Graham Dobbin: you listen to talk radio dot nyc my name is Graham dobbin we've got Sandra Kenny with us from human power solutions and you're listening to the mind behind leadership will be back after these.
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00:45:46.200 --> 00:45:51.000 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back to the mind buying leadership soundtrack you know even dancing to the music, this time, disappointed.
00:45:52.530 --> 00:46:13.050 Graham Dobbin: disappointed i'm so curious we're talking about risks were caused by creating that culture and bit risks have inherently right or wrong, they could go either way because it's just us nobody else is listening, you can tell me what's not what for you.
00:46:14.700 --> 00:46:19.650 Sandra Kearney: When i've tried to do everything all by myself when I have not asked for help.
00:46:21.240 --> 00:46:29.970 Sandra Kearney: And i've not seen where i've been too proud or too afraid to say, I don't understand this.
00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:40.620 Graham Dobbin: bizarre afraid it's a cutie again is this a personal thing you're afraid of that culture that you were working with the that you couldn't see that.
00:46:41.220 --> 00:46:56.580 Sandra Kearney: So there was one, where I was absolutely was not able to say what I thought so that was a really terrible thing, I think, because you know it ended up that I didn't stay.
00:46:58.140 --> 00:47:07.500 Sandra Kearney: Where I am now and then the, the other side of it is you know just confidence in myself I just I was afraid to look stupid.
00:47:10.290 --> 00:47:11.040 Sandra Kearney: So selling.
00:47:12.030 --> 00:47:20.190 Graham Dobbin: So what what what kind of what kind of thoughts, can you give will have a leader sitting on here we'll have people who are you've got teams there.
00:47:20.730 --> 00:47:31.320 Graham Dobbin: what's kind of what do we think the first stage to create that that environment where it's safe to be creative safe to have ideas but also safe to make mistakes.
00:47:32.370 --> 00:47:38.430 Sandra Kearney: I think starting off with little things little projects little little initiatives, just to take the baby steps.
00:47:38.460 --> 00:47:44.430 Sandra Kearney: knock him not do something really we're going to we're going to change 180 degrees and go this way you know.
00:47:44.700 --> 00:47:51.000 Sandra Kearney: What about one small little change that we can make let's see how that work, what are your what's your idea about this and let them take it.
00:47:51.300 --> 00:48:05.430 Sandra Kearney: Let them take so that's what I think I think it's if it's not in your culture, right now, you know teaching leaders, how to delegate teaching them how to step back and say let them see how it goes, but not with a huge project to start with something small.
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:20.040 Graham Dobbin: It every leadership program i'm working with we talked about delegation, and this is it one of the problems I think we've got as we use words like delegation and there's all of a sudden, there is this in bill 20 3040 year, however, old we are.
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:26.430 Graham Dobbin: idea of what that actually means rather than looking at what processes that tools other people in.
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:32.850 Graham Dobbin: and completely agree with that that creativity, take the small steps, I remember it was working with one company, I said there's.
00:48:33.210 --> 00:48:45.270 Graham Dobbin: there's always an opportunity to do something slightly differently there's always a slightly different way if we ask people to do it, and he said there isn't grim that isn't not for us, I forgot was working with a nuclear processing plant.
00:48:45.630 --> 00:48:47.130 Sandra Kearney: They have to be quite precise.
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:56.550 Graham Dobbin: You know fitness was was was I put my hands up and said Okay, maybe sometimes the process just needs to be followed.
00:48:57.390 --> 00:49:10.080 Graham Dobbin: We had an interesting discussion of the p2p be creative and the actually came up with a whole world of things around the process, how they worked with each other, how do they could be creative and take a few risks it couldn't take a risk of the process.
00:49:10.470 --> 00:49:11.700 Graham Dobbin: Which is, which again.
00:49:11.730 --> 00:49:13.620 Graham Dobbin: So we talk about farmer, we talked about.
00:49:14.790 --> 00:49:23.580 Graham Dobbin: euclid process and got huge manufacturing plants like cars, etc, etc, we get it, that we can you know go out and just take risks.
00:49:24.300 --> 00:49:35.340 Graham Dobbin: bit around the team around the communication, how they work together, yes, we can so it's making that so just in case anybody's listening to you know it's okay for another company, but not for us.
00:49:36.240 --> 00:49:45.540 Graham Dobbin: think the problem, the provocation, that would have here is how could you take those just quit quit do you have that little bit creativity and.
00:49:47.370 --> 00:49:57.030 Graham Dobbin: What advice would you give to yourself that we spoken about kind of your chemistry you fell into hospitality you've done fitness you've gone away and got a degree.
00:49:57.660 --> 00:50:05.970 Graham Dobbin: In organizational leadership you started up your company have set up more than one company what advice would you give an 18 year old Sandra.
00:50:07.350 --> 00:50:20.130 Sandra Kearney: So i've got three kids and one of mine is graduating from college and one is two years out of college i'm just going to go i'm going to frame it around them my daughter's working for a big company right a big financial company.
00:50:20.130 --> 00:50:26.520 Sandra Kearney: Right now, and the advice that i'm given to both of the my older boy is does technical stuff he doesn't he works in manufacturing.
00:50:26.970 --> 00:50:36.960 Sandra Kearney: The younger two are both just getting started in their careers my advice was to them get him with a big company first get some really great training grounds.
00:50:37.470 --> 00:50:45.270 Sandra Kearney: You know you're going to get the training the development you're going to network, you know with these you're going to build your network up with with these people.
00:50:45.780 --> 00:50:55.950 Sandra Kearney: In and just get your support yourself out there, and my daughter has taken that to heart and she is just you know she's in a call Center at a big financial company and.
00:50:56.610 --> 00:51:05.430 Sandra Kearney: But she's doing the book clubs she's networking she's crazy she's she's making Bowling nights for her team like she's she's organizing those.
00:51:05.820 --> 00:51:13.200 Sandra Kearney: My younger son is you know, looking at a couple of big companies and they've got sales training programs so that's you can.
00:51:13.680 --> 00:51:23.220 Sandra Kearney: You know, you can have a passionate go after what you want, but get some foundational stuff first and some of these big companies have a lot of really good foundational training to learn.
00:51:23.730 --> 00:51:35.460 Sandra Kearney: To help them, learn and then you know, then five years six years, seven years out, you know she'll want to open a coffee shop but she's gonna have a lot of things behind her in order to give her some a really solid foundation.
00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:51.420 Graham Dobbin: it's interesting I wonder about own industry um can you go straight from college and go into organizational development or what's the dangers of doing that rather rather than seeing that you can what's kind of the dangers of what's the benefits of not.
00:51:52.350 --> 00:52:03.810 Sandra Kearney: I think, having the experience I mean I I don't know if coming out of you know college, I could have done what i'm what i'm doing now, without all the with all the LIFE experiences.
00:52:03.810 --> 00:52:07.530 Sandra Kearney: That i've had you know I don't think it's impossible.
00:52:08.550 --> 00:52:14.220 Sandra Kearney: But I think you I think when you're coming out of college, you know you might be coming at it from an academic standpoint yep.
00:52:14.670 --> 00:52:24.690 Sandra Kearney: You know more, more or less of the experience standpoint, I think, for you know, for you and I we've had a bunch of experiences so we can share a lot of stories, you know.
00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:35.220 Sandra Kearney: So I think and that stories really resonate with people when you're when you're talking about a concept I don't think I don't think it cannot be done, but.
00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:36.300 Graham Dobbin: You know yeah.
00:52:36.330 --> 00:52:37.710 Sandra Kearney: Give me some berries first.
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:42.480 Graham Dobbin: Suppose this about awareness again kind of a weird of all what what we don't know.
00:52:42.990 --> 00:52:45.870 Graham Dobbin: And coming out and then and then being curious about.
00:52:46.020 --> 00:52:50.880 Graham Dobbin: Final Report is really like absolutely right i've learned more from my bruises then my trophies.
00:52:51.720 --> 00:52:52.740 Graham Dobbin: We say that you know.
00:52:52.980 --> 00:53:03.450 Graham Dobbin: There are lots of things we can turn around and say that we've done over we've achieved or clients with what with, but if you're in sales are the ones I learned most from it's the ones that have lost I thought I was going to win.
00:53:04.110 --> 00:53:05.790 Graham Dobbin: Or you know the programs that.
00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:17.130 Graham Dobbin: don't quite hit the mark and we've got to go back in and do something slightly different because to suggest that everything hits the mark would be would be false that's just not the case, would be dealing with humans.
00:53:20.250 --> 00:53:27.450 Graham Dobbin: But being able to you know, the more experienced would get is being able to kind of navigate through that what do you, what do you think the biggest myth about this.
00:53:28.590 --> 00:53:35.370 Graham Dobbin: Because it is there's a lot of misperceptions about this industry about the approaches for leadership, what do you think the biggest myth.
00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:43.440 Sandra Kearney: I think what you just said, I mean that it's not effective, you know when you when you talk about these these you know essential skills or soft skills.
00:53:43.470 --> 00:53:44.640 Graham Dobbin: And you know.
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:52.800 Sandra Kearney: Why bother I think that's the biggest I think people are not understanding, you know how important this part is.
00:53:52.830 --> 00:53:54.210 yeah you know.
00:53:55.290 --> 00:54:00.060 Graham Dobbin: um you mentioned earlier when we finally got three or four mostly and.
00:54:01.110 --> 00:54:05.070 Graham Dobbin: But you mentioned earlier that you know something about that, when you knew enough.
00:54:06.270 --> 00:54:16.620 Graham Dobbin: You were able to do something, how do you know when you know enough, this is good kind of a question, it seems to come up regularly with people taking not taking action, how do you know so.
00:54:16.980 --> 00:54:26.220 Sandra Kearney: It was more of more of like I didn't know enough, so I want to get it, I want to learn more, so I think we have I have like an ever I never know enough.
00:54:26.700 --> 00:54:40.440 Sandra Kearney: But now I know enough that I can go and talk to someone intelligently and ask the right questions, so I think it's as you get more confident and you continue to learn and listen to podcasts and you know read books and.
00:54:40.740 --> 00:54:52.980 Sandra Kearney: just continue to feed yourself personal development wise, both personally and professionally to help yourself grow, so I think we should be all be continuous learners I mean that's the buzzword but it truly you know, one of those things.
00:54:54.180 --> 00:55:00.450 Sandra Kearney: Is when you feel confident and when you, and when you can see a change in someone something that you did I think it's pretty cool.
00:55:00.870 --> 00:55:06.060 Graham Dobbin: What are what are the things that jump so completely in agreement well it's things that jump So for me as a leader doesn't need to know everything.
00:55:07.020 --> 00:55:07.260 Sandra Kearney: yeah.
00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:15.420 Graham Dobbin: You don't need to know everything but kind of need to know where to get the answers from and maybe number opinion on most things, but not not be the smartest person in the room.
00:55:16.770 --> 00:55:22.020 Graham Dobbin: Because that that's that's what can make a huge huge difference and.
00:55:23.700 --> 00:55:31.410 Graham Dobbin: Finally, very final question and pain, will you know that you know enough.
00:55:33.810 --> 00:55:34.440 Sandra Kearney: i'm dead.
00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:38.490 Graham Dobbin: it's a trick question good question.
00:55:40.230 --> 00:55:53.520 Graham Dobbin: Probably will never be able to get to and here's the thing so what's coming up what's come out or today common myth is that cubby need to know everything and it's always as it is but one of the big things is jumbo is about risk taking.
00:55:55.230 --> 00:56:09.060 Graham Dobbin: You know, we need to take appropriate risks and build a culture that allows that and data is absolutely huge gathering as much data as possible is on on our people have any final thoughts.
00:56:11.190 --> 00:56:21.630 Sandra Kearney: I i'm excited to see where people are what people are doing that we're getting more and more calls for those emerging leaders and that middle management we're getting more and more calls for that, so I think that.
00:56:21.990 --> 00:56:28.980 Sandra Kearney: People are seeing that how valuable training is on on this side some super encouraged by what's happening right now.
00:56:29.250 --> 00:56:32.880 Graham Dobbin: Sunday candy Thank you so much for being open, honest.
00:56:33.990 --> 00:56:37.800 Graham Dobbin: And as a leader should be vulnerable as always.
00:56:38.340 --> 00:56:47.160 Graham Dobbin: Sunday candy from human power solutions, I you've been listening to the mind buying leadership Thank you so much for dylan Nelson keeping us right in the background.
00:56:47.490 --> 00:56:54.210 Graham Dobbin: We will see you again next week for another episode of the mind behind leadership have a good evening and a good day bye bye.
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