Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
Learn to build bridges within your communities, families, and workplaces in which polarization might otherwise result in division. This is a new way to think about the alignment of inner change and social change. You will be invited to recognize that empathetic and emotionally intelligent leaders have first built bridges in their inner worlds. We will explore example of leaders who show up in wholeness, revealing how they build the capacity to celebrate societies polarizing forces as dialectical challenges and optimize the fertility of diverse ecosystems with centeredness and connection.
How can storytelling, authentic relating, and inductive growth-work help leaders and teams use polarities as a strategy to unleash unrivaled creative advantages? How do we subconsciously conform in ways that inhibit leadership capacity? In relationships and leadership styles, our emotional intelligence, empathy, and capacity to be effective is limited by the extent to which we unconsciously allow social roles to govern our dynamics. Once we unpack these conformities, we begin to relate with our unique identity differently. This doesn’t mean we give up what makes us unique, it simply means we begin to relate with ourselves differently. This is the pathway to personal liberation that unlocks profound leadership capacities while simultaneously transforming social issues.
Gareth Gwyn is the author of the book “You Are Us: How to Build Bridges in a Polarized World.” The 13 stories in the book are from the perspective of 13 people who are radically different but are also unified by having done the work of inner reckoning with their trauma, pain, and socialized identity. Through the vulnerable illumination of each story, we learn how inner work translates into liberated leadership that serves community, workplace, and ultimately societal transformation. She is the founder of Let’s See Labs, a think tank that is the leading advocate for the radical notion that polarity is a creative engine in organizations. This work recognizes that our differences in identity are highly compatible, and can be a source of connection rather than conflict.
https://www.instagram.com/letsseelabs/
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https://www.letsseelabs.com/you-are-us
#empathy, #self-awareness, #identity, #emotionalintelligence, #leadershipdevelopment, #Leadershipcoaching #leadershipconsulting #TheHardSkills
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On this episode of The Hard Skills, Dr. Mira Brancu is joined by author and founder of the company Let’s See Labs, Gareth Gwyn, as they discuss how to build bridges in a polarized world. To start the discussion, Dr. Brancu shares the story of how Gareth and Dr. Brancu met and how she was very impressed with Gareth’s work. From there, Dr. Brancu decides to open the show with more light-hearted topics before diving into the deep meaningful ones, so she pulls out her Delv Deck of cards and plays a small game with Gareth before continuing their discussion. Gareth shares how she got to where she is today and what fascinated her to explore more about building bridges and leadership identity.
After the first break, we return to Dr. Brancu and Gareth answering another question from the Delv Deck before returning where they left off in their conversation. In the last segment, they dived into talking about societal messaging for women, and Dr. Brancu is very curious to learn more about a term Gareth used, which was passive conformities. Gareth describes it as a form of trauma. Gareth states, “We’re living, we’re adopting ways of being from an external environment, and from our dynamics and culture that takes us further away from our essence.” They both discuss ways to overcome passive conformities and how there can be consequences for breaking that cycle but it can be worth it in the end of the situation. From there, Dr. Brancu and Gareth discuss leaning into polarity as something valuable when developing a leadership identity.
Moving along, at the beginning of the show, Dr. Brancu and Gareth discussed that they met at a conference, where Gareth spoke and showed a video that they kept referring to throughout their conversation. So Gareth shares what that video was and the story behind it. They continue to share similar stories and take some time to view what leaders might be going through in their minds in certain situations. Dr. Brancu asks Gareth to explain the journey, from beginning to end, about how a leader goes through their coaching journey. Gareth explains what most people do or say in their sessions that demonstrate that the client is ready to grow and learn more about themselves.
As the episode comes to an end, Dr. Brancu recaps everything they have discussed in the previous segment, which is the different emotions and actions people may go through in a coaching session. Dr. Brancu touches more on the subject, particularly looking at vulnerability and touching into their emotions. Something that Gareth wants people to take away from this episode is for people to take the possibility that they can be a part of non-polarizing leadership from wherever they are whenever. For more information about leadership and the work Gareth does, please visit letsseelabs.com
00:00:48.050 --> 00:01:06.909 Mira Brancu: welcome to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabu, I work with leaders in healthcare research stem and other technical fields who want to develop an authentic leadership identity and create a healthy, inclusive workplace environment, to retain the best people, doing their best work, in other words.
00:01:06.930 --> 00:01:11.319 Mira Brancu: developing the hard skills needed to make a greater impact.
00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:35.169 Mira Brancu: Now, this season, we've been focusing on developing identity, the second stage of my strategic leadership pathway model. And in fact, I just finished up our towerscope Leadership Academy 9 week Beta test of our developing identity training. So I'm super excited to close that out. And to continue this conversation today with Gareth Gwynn
00:01:35.270 --> 00:01:42.639 Mira Brancu: on how to build bridges in a polarized world which, by the way, is the name of her book.
00:01:42.790 --> 00:01:53.640 Mira Brancu: So we value evidence-based practical solutions. Be ready. Take notes. I do reflect deeply, and identify at least one small step
00:01:53.740 --> 00:01:56.560 Mira Brancu: to further develop your hard skills muscles.
00:01:57.630 --> 00:02:06.150 Mira Brancu: Now, Gareth Gwynn is the author of the book. You are Us. How to build bridges in a polarized world.
00:02:06.710 --> 00:02:20.219 Mira Brancu: The 13 stories in her book are from the perspective of 13 people who are radically different, but are unified in having done the work of inner reckoning with their trauma pain and socialized identities.
00:02:20.550 --> 00:02:27.149 Mira Brancu: Identity is the topic of today. So this is very exciting to have her here. Through this
00:02:27.700 --> 00:02:37.359 Mira Brancu: she describes how inner work translates into liberated leadership that serves community workplace and ultimately societal transformation.
00:02:37.910 --> 00:02:43.299 Mira Brancu: She's also the founder of let's see labs A think Tank, that is the leading advocate
00:02:43.310 --> 00:02:47.469 Mira Brancu: for radical notion that polarity is a creative engine
00:02:47.530 --> 00:02:49.070 Mira Brancu: in organizations.
00:02:49.130 --> 00:02:57.690 Mira Brancu: This work recognizes that our differences in identity are highly compatible and can be a source of connection rather than conflict.
00:02:57.920 --> 00:03:17.400 Mira Brancu: I can't think of a better time to be focused on this topic than now. So welcome, Gareth, very excited to have you here today. Yeah, me, too. It's great to be here and excited about this topic as well. I really love the bringing in the identity piece and how that relates to polarization. Yeah, absolutely. Now.
00:03:17.410 --> 00:03:31.239 Mira Brancu: you and I met through the Athena Leadership Conference. Athena International is an international organization. But we went to Athena of the triangle, which is their local chapter
00:03:31.390 --> 00:03:40.939 Mira Brancu: and I believe the Leadership Conference was this year earlier this year, and the way that we connected is I went to your talk
00:03:41.370 --> 00:03:47.179 Mira Brancu: and I was blown away by, how quickly you got people talking about
00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:48.860 Mira Brancu: really deep.
00:03:48.970 --> 00:03:53.539 Mira Brancu: difficult conversations and the passion that you had for this
00:03:53.590 --> 00:03:59.169 Mira Brancu: and you showed us this film clip that was
00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.770 Mira Brancu: challenging to watch. And
00:04:04.010 --> 00:04:06.290 Mira Brancu: I think because it touched our humanity.
00:04:06.320 --> 00:04:11.850 Mira Brancu: And so I had to talk with you more, and we got to talking. I just
00:04:11.970 --> 00:04:15.459 Mira Brancu: love your perspective. I loved everything that you had to say.
00:04:15.490 --> 00:04:24.309 Mira Brancu: And so that's how we ended up here today with you on the show. And hopefully, we'll get into some of those beep, meaningful conversations. But I figured.
00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:30.299 Mira Brancu: let's just start with something a little bit more light hearted. Just ease into this. Okay.
00:04:30.380 --> 00:04:39.609 Mira Brancu: I have decided to play around with this delve deck that I just bought. No, they're not paying me for this.
00:04:39.960 --> 00:04:48.770 Mira Brancu: but you know, hey, delve deck folks if you want to sponsor me. That's cool, but it's like, just like, you know, card you take from a deck
00:04:49.150 --> 00:04:58.400 Mira Brancu: they have like light hearted deeper, deeper, more meaningful. I'm just gonna keep it light. I'm gonna ask you a question that I pulled.
00:04:58.420 --> 00:05:00.470 Mira Brancu: and if you want to pass
00:05:00.620 --> 00:05:07.629 Mira Brancu: pass, I've got 3 options, so you can pass twice. Here's the first question.
00:05:07.710 --> 00:05:12.420 Mira Brancu: what is the most underwhelming tourist trap you've ever seen?
00:05:13.580 --> 00:05:25.109 Mira Brancu: The most underwhelming tourist trap. Yes, and I can start. I can start I was in the middle. It's in the midwest.
00:05:25.140 --> 00:05:35.800 Mira Brancu: and you start seeing these signs, probably 200 miles from when you finally get there, I think it's called like, wall, wall, kill.
00:05:35.850 --> 00:05:37.509 Mira Brancu: Welcome to wall, kill
00:05:37.540 --> 00:05:49.899 Mira Brancu: you know all of this amazing stuff about wall kill. I'm like I have to get there. I have to get there. It sounds amazing. What is this thing? And we finally get there. It's like this small convenience store.
00:05:50.590 --> 00:05:55.490 Mira Brancu: It was brilliant marketing. It was so underwhelming.
00:05:56.250 --> 00:06:24.409 Gareth Gwyn: Yes, yeah. But led up to it. You thought you were. Gonna get something. And then, just like, what is this brilliant marketing I've ever experienced? That's funny. Yes. So what comes up for me is also has that element of like seeing a bunch of billboards and being drawn into something. But for me it was around the Casino. It was like, I've never been to a Casino before, and I'll try it out, you know. Maybe there's there's fun in there. And and I felt very much, very much underwhelmed, very much like.
00:06:24.490 --> 00:06:40.880 Mira Brancu: Okay, II can see how maybe people get into this. But for me it didn't resonate. And so I was just like, Okay, well, gave that a shot once. That's hilarious. Also kind of funny, because my spouse and I go to Las Vegas
00:06:40.960 --> 00:06:43.160 Mira Brancu: more often than
00:06:43.230 --> 00:06:47.329 Mira Brancu: makes any sense, because we don't gamble
00:06:47.380 --> 00:06:48.979 Mira Brancu: and we don't drink.
00:06:49.010 --> 00:07:11.390 Mira Brancu: and we don't party. We don't stay up late and like that's like that, we find all of that underwhelming or like more interested in the show. So it's just really funny. That is funny. Yeah, alright, make sense. Alright. So let's get down to the first real question of today, which is, how did you get into this kind of work.
00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:13.270 Gareth Gwyn: Yeah. So
00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:39.569 Gareth Gwyn: I, the number one response, that is curiosity. And how that evolved was really feeling impressed and inspired by nonviolent activists, people who were really able to actually like pursue nonviolence in moments that it really mattered. And so, feeling that that draw to those kinds of leaders for a lot of my life. But I would say the thing that actually catalyzed me into the the capacity to to
00:07:39.570 --> 00:08:02.609 Gareth Gwyn: start to embody that myself and really, you know, explore that personally was being able to actually take a lot of what I was learning around shadow work, around transformation, around healing and self realization, and apply that to the socialized identity aspects of myself, to understand how passive conformities and traumas.
00:08:02.860 --> 00:08:27.690 Gareth Gwyn: what played a role in the subconscious development of my identity, and how to really use shadow work to break through and and come to know myself beyond those aspects of my identity which doesn't necessarily mean giving them up, but relating with them differently. And so, as I began to do that, I realized how you know, impactful that was for my own journey and feeling more free. And
00:08:27.690 --> 00:08:51.520 Gareth Gwyn: and when I say free, I mean free to respond to the world and free to respond to people instead of being clung in reactivity. And so realizing that that that really did, you know, catalog a lot of my capacity in that area and so led me to want to find examples of people who have done this in the world in some of the most polarizing contexts, and really learn from their stories, and find the patterns in those stories, and then see, how can we take those patterns
00:08:51.520 --> 00:09:08.219 Gareth Gwyn: while they have their distinctness, find the universal patterns, and then build that into leadership workshops and programs, which is, you know, the philosophy in the book, but also in the programs that we deliver. So people can learn to actually break free from, you know, these subconscious
00:09:08.700 --> 00:09:10.460 Gareth Gwyn: identity aspects.
00:09:10.700 --> 00:09:12.600 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I
00:09:12.730 --> 00:09:19.390 Mira Brancu: Gosh, I love this so much. This is why we connected, by the way, because, you take
00:09:19.760 --> 00:09:31.719 Mira Brancu: such a unique perspective to leadership workshops. And it's a sort of similar perspective that I take, which is, there was something missing that I felt
00:09:31.950 --> 00:09:34.090 Mira Brancu: when it came to leadership development
00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:42.460 Mira Brancu: and especially for women and marginalized leaders around leadership identity development. Because.
00:09:42.490 --> 00:09:46.570 Mira Brancu: the most traditional leadership development programs
00:09:46.920 --> 00:09:49.940 Mira Brancu: do not get into how
00:09:50.180 --> 00:09:52.020 Mira Brancu: difficult it is
00:09:52.490 --> 00:09:57.049 Mira Brancu: to enter into a traditional model of leadership
00:09:57.120 --> 00:09:59.580 Mira Brancu: and their definitions
00:09:59.670 --> 00:10:06.439 Mira Brancu: when it's so different than the messages that you've gotten and how you see yourself.
00:10:06.540 --> 00:10:13.339 Mira Brancu: and it takes you taking some time to break it all down and separate. Who am I
00:10:13.820 --> 00:10:19.810 Mira Brancu: from? What are the societal messages that have been told to me about who I am and how I should be
00:10:20.260 --> 00:10:24.300 Mira Brancu: versus what you know, where, where someone else comes in.
00:10:24.340 --> 00:10:34.079 Mira Brancu: and being able to separate, that takes some work, and we don't spend enough time on that. And so we constantly perpetuate the same challenges. So
00:10:34.150 --> 00:10:42.189 Mira Brancu: you take a specific perspective around that that I really appreciate and value in. You know the work that I do as well.
00:10:42.880 --> 00:10:51.090 Mira Brancu: Now let's let's break down some of the words that you use that I suspect people are wondering about.
00:10:51.140 --> 00:10:54.639 Mira Brancu: The first thing that you use is shadow work. What is that?
00:10:55.050 --> 00:11:16.520 Gareth Gwyn: Yeah. So it's a term that's kind of thrown around and like the self growth community. But what I mean by that is saying that what are the parts of us that we've rejected, or that, you know, we haven't fully accepted or loved. And so in relationship dynamics, they can show up. When we feel triggered, we feel defensive, we feel reactive.
00:11:16.630 --> 00:11:28.029 Gareth Gwyn: and that can be a guidepost to understanding. Okay, which what parts of of myself are still operating in the shadow that I need to bring into the light, and then learn how to love myself more wholly.
00:11:28.180 --> 00:11:53.199 Gareth Gwyn: And so, as I'm doing that, I'm reclaiming my wholeness part by part. And so then, when the external world brings that same trigger to me. I have an you know, the spaciousness to say, Hey, I don't have to conform to the external world. I also don't have to react to it. I can still show up and have a boundary. I can show up and and say yes and no, and I have spaciousness to make choice. And so I think, as we
00:11:53.200 --> 00:12:04.019 Gareth Gwyn: get curious, and and, you know, find those shadow parts of ourself, if we have the desire and the will to do that, then it can. We're. We're ultimately on a pathway of reclaiming our wholeness.
00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:13.070 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And I think that's really important. because if there are parts of ourselves we
00:12:13.220 --> 00:12:15.480 Mira Brancu: do not and cannot accept
00:12:15.970 --> 00:12:16.800 Mira Brancu: right.
00:12:17.040 --> 00:12:20.470 Mira Brancu: we are more likely to become very
00:12:20.580 --> 00:12:29.629 Mira Brancu: defensive. or, as some people say, triggered. have strong reactions. Take it out on other people.
00:12:29.710 --> 00:12:36.480 Mira Brancu: take it out on ourselves. Sabotage our success because it's something that is so wrong
00:12:36.830 --> 00:12:41.230 Mira Brancu: that and and we haven't worked through it.
00:12:41.450 --> 00:12:42.390 Mira Brancu: If
00:12:42.580 --> 00:12:45.929 Mira Brancu: we can recognize what that is
00:12:46.270 --> 00:12:53.829 Mira Brancu: and accept it as just part of who we are, there's always a shadow side to all of our strengths. Right? Every, even, every strength, comes with
00:12:53.980 --> 00:13:07.210 Mira Brancu: a liability when you over utilize it right? So when we can identify what those are and be okay with it. You have a lot more agency and control about what to do with it, that there's a lot more control in that right?
00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:32.710 Gareth Gwyn: Yes, there, there's a lot more agency. And I think that another extension of that capacity is inspiring other people, instead of engaging them back into the battle where you stay trapped in that sort of monetary battle. You actually, you know, people can see new possibility because you've been able to present the spaciousness for new possibility to be there. So I think that's where it can translate into leadership as well in terms of inspiration, and living through that through that example.
00:13:32.980 --> 00:13:55.220 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And we see that, you know when we go online. And there's you know, somebody we really admire and and look up to, you know, most of the time. It's not because they have a lot of bravado, you know. It's because they've demonstrated that they've overcome some kind of adversity or challenge, and accepted it and embrace it, and
00:13:55.290 --> 00:14:02.020 Mira Brancu: then share with others how they did that right. And that is really inspirational. So absolutely. I resonate with that?
00:14:02.280 --> 00:14:06.889 Gareth Gwyn: Yeah, very much. So. Yeah. And that we all have the capacity to do that.
00:14:07.150 --> 00:14:12.750 Mira Brancu: Yes, absolutely. So with that, said we're nearing an ad break
00:14:12.880 --> 00:14:42.750 Mira Brancu: after the ad break. I'm gonna ask you about passive conformities. That's another thing that you brought up that I think people are gonna be asking about. So you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mara Bronco and our guest, Gareth Gwynn. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern. If you would like to join our online audience right now and ask questions. We are here. We're available to respond in real time on Youtube or Linkedin at talk radio, Nyc, and we'll be right back with just a moment
00:14:42.930 --> 00:14:43.950 Mira Brancu: with our guest.
00:16:56.680 --> 00:17:19.949 Mira Brancu: alright. Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Mira Bronku and our guest, Gareth Gwynn Gareth, are you ready for another random question from my dell deck? I'm having. What overused word are you tired of hearing? I will share mine only because it's come up
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.500 Mira Brancu: recently.
00:17:22.660 --> 00:17:36.410 Mira Brancu: because the Oxford Dictionary, and Miriam Webster has name this like the name the word of the year riz, which my kids use. Well, my 14 year old uses all the time.
00:17:36.430 --> 00:17:39.800 Mira Brancu: and comes from charisma.
00:17:39.930 --> 00:17:58.350 Mira Brancu: But I've heard it so many times this week. I'm done. Yes, okay, I'm with you. So okay, so my response is, it's really personal. It's the word awesome. I found that. I say, it's too much like there's an automated response that comes when I say awesome. And II need to catch myself into like.
00:17:58.350 --> 00:18:12.710 Gareth Gwyn: you know, the word awesome is a good word, and it's full it's full of. I'm you're experiencing, full of awe, you know, and I want to be able to use it in the real context. I mean it and not just be on autopilot in a response with it. So I'm tired of myself hearing that from myself.
00:18:13.190 --> 00:18:32.240 Mira Brancu: Awesome.
00:18:32.260 --> 00:18:37.869 Mira Brancu: Okay, so back to like seriousness here. one other.
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:44.419 Mira Brancu: term that you used that. I think people are going to be curious about when we focus in on
00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:56.159 Mira Brancu: liberating, you know, structures and separating ourselves from societal messaging and norms is passive. Conso conformities
00:18:56.300 --> 00:18:58.370 Mira Brancu: you used. What is that about?
00:18:58.770 --> 00:19:16.519 Gareth Gwyn: Yeah. So I think you know, the word trauma gets used a lot, and it can be a big term that can, you know, mean a lot of different things to different people. But I would say that one way to view trauma is to break it down into like acute trauma. You know things that happen like a molestation or abuse.
00:19:16.520 --> 00:19:40.740 Gareth Gwyn: and then I would actually put passive conformity as a type of trauma where it's more actually, as we're living, we're adopting ways of being from the external environment and from our dynamics and culture that take us further away from our essence. We're not entirely sure that that's happening because it's a gradual additive process over time. So one example that you know I can use about myself is like
00:19:40.740 --> 00:20:04.499 Gareth Gwyn: we, we're talking about gender and women in leadership is saying, Okay, what? What cult, like passive conformities have I adopted through just being identified as a woman in society? And if I break those down, I can say, Okay, which ones reveal my shadow. That's really not me. And which ones do I want to keep, you know, and have that choice to say I get to be the one developing my identity
00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:26.679 Gareth Gwyn: and not that culture is the one that is actually passively developing my identity. And I and that guide post kinda comes back from what we were sharing about that reactivity, where, if I find myself in a dynamic and I'm reactive or defensive, if I get curious, sometimes I can lead to understanding how. Oh, as a woman, I've learned how to make myself inferior in certain contexts.
00:20:26.770 --> 00:20:40.109 Gareth Gwyn: and so really taking responsibility instead of asking some one else to change, saying, Oh, I'm the one who somehow subconsciously is stepping into an inferiority. And how can I step further into my wholeness and taking responsibility to do that.
00:20:40.290 --> 00:20:42.830 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I
00:20:43.170 --> 00:20:59.760 Mira Brancu: I really appreciate that. And it's making me think about. And I'm gonna share an example. Let me know if this fits this definition of passive conformity. So in our Leadership Academy, which is, you know, mostly for people who who identify as women.
00:21:00.100 --> 00:21:07.309 Mira Brancu: we talk about our leadership styles, and how those of us who
00:21:07.460 --> 00:21:12.640 Mira Brancu: are much more naturally inclined to be
00:21:13.090 --> 00:21:21.080 Mira Brancu: assertive drive things directive, decisive.
00:21:21.290 --> 00:21:25.270 Mira Brancu: You know those are positive things.
00:21:25.470 --> 00:21:40.950 Mira Brancu: but from a societal perspective. We are told earlier in our careers, at least as women, that those are not valued for people who are women who, you know in leadership roles. So instead, what happens is
00:21:41.190 --> 00:22:03.319 Mira Brancu: we find ourselves trying to tamp it down so that people don't see us as aggressive or loud or abrasive right? And unfortunately, that means we lose a part of ourselves in our power because we're trying so hard to tamp down this piece of us. That is a very natural way of who we are, and once we
00:22:03.670 --> 00:22:15.099 Mira Brancu: are able to sort of move into a different space to reclaim. That is a piece of me, and I'm okay with that. And how do I show up now in that? It's
00:22:15.210 --> 00:22:33.019 Mira Brancu: as you say it. It's very liberating right to be able to do that. Does that fit into kind of how you're thinking about passive conso conformities? Yes, I think that's a really good example. And what's interesting about that is, I think that the more that we're able to really, truly, authentically own that expression, the less sort of
00:22:33.020 --> 00:22:57.760 Gareth Gwyn: chaos or circ or consequences will emerge. And as we learn to do that, at least in my experience, there are some consequences. It's like, Okay, I'm gonna learn to be more assertive. And then, as I do, that I have to let go of managing other people's reactions, other people's emotions, what they think of me, you know, and free myself from those expectations as well, and maybe there will be some consequences that I don't
00:22:57.760 --> 00:23:20.119 Gareth Gwyn: feel good about, but but being able to express my full self is still worth it. And over time I think that those consequences lessened because we're more embodied in that expression. But for that short period of time I do think there can be a little bit of a transition time that that we have to let go of those external the expectations of how this external world likability and and pleasing people.
00:23:20.300 --> 00:23:30.159 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's interesting. I just sent out a newsletter about navigating, identifying and then navigating emotional labor
00:23:30.410 --> 00:23:33.460 Mira Brancu: and part of what you're saying. Here
00:23:33.580 --> 00:23:44.290 Mira Brancu: is what we, you know, as as women often find ourselves doing, as well as people in certain professions, especially service oriented professions like medical professionals, where we learn
00:23:44.320 --> 00:23:47.369 Mira Brancu: how to manage other people's reactions
00:23:47.410 --> 00:23:54.460 Mira Brancu: so well that we don't realize the amount of energy that it takes. And
00:23:54.560 --> 00:24:02.979 Mira Brancu: you know, women and marginalized folks within organizations are often expected or feel compelled and pulled into
00:24:03.130 --> 00:24:08.499 Mira Brancu: doing more of this emotional labor work, doing more more of this work, that
00:24:08.580 --> 00:24:20.169 Mira Brancu: where you're managing other people's emotions, managing reactions. That is an amazing skill set to be able to do right. But at the same time recognizing that it does take energy.
00:24:20.210 --> 00:24:38.940 Mira Brancu: And we need to sort of realize when it's not valued and what to sort of do with that right? Yeah, and that we don't have to do that if we don't want to. That's right. That's right. So with all of that, now, we've gotten all the definitions, all of the jargon verbage on the table. Okay,
00:24:39.090 --> 00:24:42.350 Mira Brancu: when we think about developing leadership identity.
00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:47.479 Mira Brancu: how? Let's let's talk more about this leaning into polarity
00:24:48.170 --> 00:24:57.140 Mira Brancu: as something that is valuable when we're developing our leadership identity. See? A little bit more about that piece?
00:24:57.370 --> 00:25:22.649 Gareth Gwyn: Yeah. So in the macro sense, it's like we we think of polarization, these 2 different in the cultural wars, right and different. Groups of people being pitted against each other. And in the microcosm of our bodies. It's like, Okay, well, how does polarization present inside of our body? And oftentimes that presentation is in the activation of the central nervous system. It's saying, Oh, I detect a threat.
00:25:22.660 --> 00:25:36.010 Gareth Gwyn: I need to protect myself. And so if we can regulate our nervous system like, you know, then we get that spaciousness to be able to choose. And if we can't, oftentimes that translates into
00:25:36.130 --> 00:25:49.129 Gareth Gwyn: polarizing leadership instead of nonpolarizing leadership. And so when we add that up in the aggregate. We get this macro reflection of what's happening inside of ourselves, really, that the the wars of ourselves and trying to to
00:25:49.140 --> 00:26:05.899 Gareth Gwyn: work through our own emotional experience. And so in terms of polarizing, showing up as a non-polarizing leader, or we use the term in our workshop. Liberated leader is liberating ourselves from how those triggers control us.
00:26:06.010 --> 00:26:13.500 Gareth Gwyn: and from how you know the identity. Po is a great place to to point us to the guidepost of where we might be stuck.
00:26:13.790 --> 00:26:27.600 Gareth Gwyn: Our identity facets. But ultimately it's really just anywhere we feel we're giving our power away to something we call an enemy to something. We blame someone else, we judge someone else. And so
00:26:27.830 --> 00:26:41.870 Gareth Gwyn: we get vulnerable to collapsing into polarization when we're giving our internal power away. And so, assuming that the world. The external world needs to change in order for us to feel okay.
00:26:42.410 --> 00:27:09.210 Gareth Gwyn: And so it's really difficult. And and I think one thing that's particularly important to to say around this, too, is that we do need an environmental context where we have the space to be able to regulate our nervous system, and being in a war zone where we're just, you know, there's just so much stimulation of the nervous system. We may not have the capacity to be able to do that. So if we can, to find spaces where we can build that
00:27:09.210 --> 00:27:14.759 Gareth Gwyn: and learn to relate with our emotions in a way that we don't collapse into polarization.
00:27:15.330 --> 00:27:17.400 Mira Brancu: Yeah, so
00:27:17.910 --> 00:27:19.639 Mira Brancu: it sounds like
00:27:19.930 --> 00:27:23.739 Mira Brancu: What you're saying is.
00:27:24.670 --> 00:27:26.330 Mira Brancu: if first
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:33.700 Mira Brancu: we can identify when we're triggered or reacting
00:27:33.710 --> 00:27:40.359 Mira Brancu: to something where? It feels threatening. But maybe it's not threatening
00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:54.330 Mira Brancu: right in in reality. But we're ha! We're having some reaction that it feels threatening. If we don't recognize that we're doing it, we're more likely to become a polarizing leader or non liberated. If we can identify
00:27:54.770 --> 00:27:56.440 Mira Brancu: and do something with that
00:27:56.540 --> 00:28:09.249 Mira Brancu: regulate a little bit, those emotions, those reactions. We can better be able to navigate. Really stressful.
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:12.620 Mira Brancu: you know, really sort of
00:28:12.710 --> 00:28:19.909 Mira Brancu: threatening feeling situations. Is that right? That's accurate, and whether it is a real threat or a perceived threat
00:28:19.950 --> 00:28:26.549 Gareth Gwyn: either way, if we're able to do this, we still have more agency to show up and attend to the real threat
00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:33.319 Gareth Gwyn: or to to realize there's just was a perceived threat, and there's no problem. So either way, it serves that leadership.
00:28:33.540 --> 00:28:40.790 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. Now, folks, this sounds easy. It is not easy
00:28:40.820 --> 00:28:42.090 Mira Brancu: to do this.
00:28:42.210 --> 00:28:55.530 Mira Brancu: It's not easy. And that reminds me of the video of the Palestinian that we we connected around, and how he did that in the middle of a situation that was incredibly hard to imagine being able to
00:28:55.650 --> 00:29:01.920 Gareth Gwyn: relate that way, you know. And so it's inspiring to see people do it, to know that it's possible, because it's rare.
00:29:01.980 --> 00:29:06.420 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. So that's a great place to
00:29:06.650 --> 00:29:31.679 Mira Brancu: stop for an add break. And when we come back let's find out about that film clip that we keep referring to, and what this Palestinian was able to do in that situation. And why, it's so inspiring. But such a challenging situation. So as a reminder. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabanku and our guest, Gareth Gwynn.
00:29:31.700 --> 00:29:47.659 Mira Brancu: We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Please feel free to leave us any question or comments online. Right now we are live at talk radio, Nyc at Youtube or Linkedin, and be, we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.
00:31:48.310 --> 00:31:53.890 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabonu and our guests, Gareth Gwynn
00:31:53.940 --> 00:32:09.560 Mira Brancu: and some of you heard me coughing before. I am on week. 3 of this cough that won't ever end so. Yes, I'm trying so hard. I've got my halls. I've got my tea still, I'm doing my best, but
00:32:10.190 --> 00:32:14.240 Mira Brancu: you will probably hear me still coughing and
00:32:14.690 --> 00:32:23.310 Mira Brancu: grumbling, and things like that, anyway. Welcome back. So Gareth. Yes, the film clip that you showed
00:32:23.530 --> 00:32:26.250 Mira Brancu: I had, and a really
00:32:26.270 --> 00:32:41.189 Mira Brancu: sort of interesting, you know, strong reaction to it was a good reaction, you know. Thought provoking. Share a little bit about this among the the many film film clips you had share a little bit about this one and what it portrayed.
00:32:41.570 --> 00:33:11.269 Gareth Gwyn: Yes, great! And I'd love to hear also more about your specific. What came up for you as well in the story. But so the film clip that we're referring to is my friend Shadi, and Shadi is Palestinian, and through an interview with him. We put together like a very short video clip about his transformation journey, and how he learned to remove himself from the victim, oppressor duality, and really, see, his identity as a human and part of his story talks about how
00:33:11.350 --> 00:33:25.419 Gareth Gwyn: growing up in the west bank, he was just constantly around violence and around threats and his nervous system. And he was always activated. And he was feeling a lot of anger. So anger was a big part of his
00:33:25.420 --> 00:33:48.670 Gareth Gwyn: childhood growing up, and fear as well. And so he talks. About one time he came to an intersection where there was an encounter of 3 different people, one of them, including an Israeli with a you know, an armed Israeli with a gun, and he, Sharif's intention was to help a woman cross the road. But there was misunderstandings. Once the Israelis saw and recognized, he was Palestinian.
00:33:48.670 --> 00:34:01.489 Gareth Gwyn: So all of a sudden, in what would have been just a normal situation of him to help a woman cross the road became amplified into this identity crisis, where it it transformed into the you know.
00:34:01.570 --> 00:34:04.239 Gareth Gwyn: the potential of violence to erupt.
00:34:04.710 --> 00:34:31.999 Gareth Gwyn: and he said, in that moment he felt his anger just coming fully through him, and he he was very tempted to defend himself and become violent into the situation, and say, This is wrong, you know I and but he said there was something in that moment that allowed him to recognize his identity beyond being a Palestinian, that he was actually a human, and that this Israeli was a human, and that this woman in the Street was a human, and that
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:48.999 Gareth Gwyn: he recognized that what was controlling the situation was actually fear, and everybody was in a fear state. And that fear can trans. You know, be presented into violence and anger when it's not acknowledged as the the foundational activation of fear that it is. And so, as he was able to.
00:34:49.000 --> 00:35:07.319 Gareth Gwyn: you know, regulate that, and and recognize the both the humanity and the commonality of the fear that was governing governing the situation. He was able to de-escalate himself and remove himself from the temptation to engage in that violence. And so it's really inspiring in the sense that he was able to do that in such a
00:35:07.430 --> 00:35:30.940 Gareth Gwyn: heightened state of of threat, and that, you know, I find that really inspiring and rare, that when people are able to do that. And so Shadi also now works with Israelis in helping to build these bridges and understand how these identities are presenting as fear. And how we can, you know, pull back and actually understand our humanity underneath it all
00:35:31.520 --> 00:35:46.749 Mira Brancu: amazing? Yeah. it's really it's really inspiring. It's really powerful. You know. I think that the thing that that came up for me is the empathy that I felt for him
00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:51.100 Mira Brancu: in that moment trying to sort of work through all of
00:35:51.260 --> 00:35:55.499 Mira Brancu: that. You know, and both feeling
00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:58.390 Mira Brancu: legitimately, understandably threatened
00:35:58.540 --> 00:36:05.640 Mira Brancu: and because it was a dangerous situation, and at the same time trying to
00:36:05.690 --> 00:36:10.509 Mira Brancu: Make the best of it and make a human decision a decision.
00:36:10.550 --> 00:36:11.580 Mira Brancu: Jenna.
00:36:11.620 --> 00:36:14.420 Mira Brancu: careful and thoughtful about other people.
00:36:14.620 --> 00:36:18.890 Mira Brancu: and you know how how rare that happens, and you know
00:36:19.070 --> 00:36:21.099 Mira Brancu: you know, on a personal level.
00:36:21.460 --> 00:36:27.739 Mira Brancu: I am A Jewish person who has family in Israel.
00:36:27.810 --> 00:36:33.979 Mira Brancu: and I also have a lot of good friends and colleagues, who are both Palestinian and Muslim.
00:36:34.160 --> 00:36:39.979 Mira Brancu: and because I grew up with a really close friend who was Muslim.
00:36:40.230 --> 00:36:44.320 Mira Brancu: I have a deeper, more special understanding and relationship
00:36:44.340 --> 00:37:00.810 Mira Brancu: with people who are Muslim. And I feel like we have a lot more in common than there are differences between people who are Jewish and people who are Muslim in those faith systems, and how we sort of focus on the good and peace, you know. And
00:37:00.860 --> 00:37:05.210 Mira Brancu: and yet we're constantly receiving messages
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.190 Mira Brancu: that these groups of people
00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:11.520 Mira Brancu: should be against each other for one reason or another.
00:37:11.530 --> 00:37:14.419 Mira Brancu: and sometimes to the point where.
00:37:14.650 --> 00:37:20.420 Mira Brancu: You know. I want to lean into the discussion of like, you know.
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.139 Mira Brancu: our humanity. And yet
00:37:25.340 --> 00:37:36.309 Mira Brancu: sometimes people don't want to go there, you know, some people. Get upset. When you want to have those kinds of conversations. Right? So
00:37:36.430 --> 00:37:38.500 Mira Brancu: what I'm curious about is
00:37:39.350 --> 00:37:42.770 Mira Brancu: for leaders who are in this situation right like
00:37:43.370 --> 00:37:49.970 Mira Brancu: here. Here are people in, let's say, official leadership capacities within organizations.
00:37:50.310 --> 00:38:04.420 Mira Brancu: And you know, they're constantly trying to figure out how to respond to these national and international crises. you know, and to to sort of be able to
00:38:04.630 --> 00:38:09.439 Mira Brancu: bring people together within their organizations. And especially if you're like in a global company.
00:38:09.500 --> 00:38:20.620 Mira Brancu: You have sometimes have people who work in those areas that are fighting against each other. You you might have a branch in the Ukraine and another in Russia, for example, or whatever right?
00:38:20.640 --> 00:38:22.719 Mira Brancu: So
00:38:22.940 --> 00:38:24.839 Mira Brancu: you're always thinking.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:30.850 Mira Brancu: what do I say? Do I say anything? And many leaders want to stay silent.
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:35.910 Mira Brancu: and or they find that when they're not silent and they want to say something
00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:39.310 Mira Brancu: sometimes it can be polarizing, depending on what they say.
00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:49.959 Mira Brancu: A lot of times, though. Leaders are humans, too. and they're working and processing through their own reactions like trying to make sense of it for themselves before
00:38:50.010 --> 00:38:55.090 Mira Brancu: trying to know how to respond. So I'm curious if you have any frameworks
00:38:55.240 --> 00:39:02.720 Mira Brancu: about how leaders can be thinking about approaching these conversations and bringing people together.
00:39:03.040 --> 00:39:14.269 Gareth Gwyn: Yeah, definitely. So this is at the heart of what our leadership development programs offer at. Let's see labs, which is amazing. So we and one of the things we really focus on. And why we look at story telling is
00:39:14.290 --> 00:39:28.609 Gareth Gwyn: is sharing how? What are the stories we're de we're develop. We're what are the stories we're creating about other people. What are the stories we're creating about ourselves? And how are those stories perpetuating the Us. Versus them
00:39:28.940 --> 00:39:55.880 Gareth Gwyn: duality? And if we're willing to examine those storylines and those narratives. We get the shadow work. We get these these places, we can go, and then, you know, find out where we, as as an individual, can pursue our own healing journey, to then show up in nonpolarizing leadership. But we also get to be able to start to look at vocabulary and the ways in which we're perceiving and intaking reality and taking responsibility for that.
00:39:55.950 --> 00:40:04.269 Gareth Gwyn: And so I think ultimately, we we look at how, at an individual level. That's where we have the the
00:40:04.530 --> 00:40:06.730 Gareth Gwyn: place where we can make change.
00:40:06.750 --> 00:40:29.550 Gareth Gwyn: And then that raises the probability that as we continue to do that on our journey we're showing up differently and exemplifying that behavior which increases the probability that invite someone in to that different paradigm, that different view that different story that we're telling of the world. So as you said, Yeah, we're constantly getting these messages that are pitting us against each other.
00:40:29.600 --> 00:40:34.550 Gareth Gwyn: If we say, Whoa, you know, wait a second. Come back. What's the story line at play here?
00:40:34.680 --> 00:41:02.569 Gareth Gwyn: And we take responsibility to expand upon that story? And instead of being in mutually exclusive narratives. We can see how there are many coexisting narratives can happen. At the same time we can begin to change the languaging and the narratives around the culture and an environment in which we're embedded, in which we exist. And I think to your point that does take that individual leader pursuing their own transformation in alignment with that as well.
00:41:02.950 --> 00:41:06.579 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So can you give us an example of
00:41:06.690 --> 00:41:08.370 Mira Brancu: what this looks like
00:41:08.490 --> 00:41:29.859 Mira Brancu: for a leader to go through this journey from start to finish. You know, it could be like 3 through your program. What does it look like? Or just from what you've seen, the people you've coached, the people that you've consulted with. What? Where do they start? What is what is their thinking? What what do they usually say? And what does it look like?
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:36.690 Mira Brancu: As you see them moving into this kind of new space? Umhm, yeah. So
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:59.480 Gareth Gwyn: so everyone's, you know, story is so incredibly distinct. So what we try to do is maintain the paradox that everybody's story is different. And we have these universal patterns. So we really want to emphasize both of those. But when you start to look at the universal patterns of of leaders going through these journeys, it usually does start with resistance.
00:41:59.490 --> 00:42:21.969 Gareth Gwyn: Usually that is a really good sign. And so that's why, you know, in the when we talk about leaning into polarization, it's saying, leaning into where we're called into a polarity and collapsing into that and saying, Oh, I'm feeling a lot of resistance to what's being presented. And so we create a lot of space for the resistance to be invited, and actually a good sign that we're getting to territory that is not been explored.
00:42:22.040 --> 00:42:39.709 Gareth Gwyn: And once we are able to, you know, work with that resistance, then we can get into, like the specifics of individual stories, and where people are clinging to different parts of their identity and subconsciously trying to defend it. So we kind of can work through individual stories and triggers and things like that. And then we really
00:42:39.810 --> 00:42:50.819 Gareth Gwyn: also one thing that's super important in the pattern is the learning how to feel. learning how to grieve. learning how to be willing to feel something instead of
00:42:50.850 --> 00:42:54.560 Gareth Gwyn: resist that feeling. And so we really focus on
00:42:54.680 --> 00:43:23.900 Gareth Gwyn: just you know, it's it, it seems simple to say, learn how to feel, but it can be really elusive. So we really try to like bring exercises around. What does that even mean? And how can we invite people into that? And once people are doing that, there's this, there there tends to be a lot of humility, a lot of that empathy and humility start to emerge where? Oh, I'm starting to see how previously I was in such tunnel vision. And now that my my body is opening to feeling the stories of other people's realities
00:43:23.970 --> 00:43:47.789 Gareth Gwyn: there, there can be a sense of shame. Oh, I'm I'm shame that that I previously didn't see this. And so we we love. We. You know that that experience of humility and shame we try to work with that and process those emotions. And ultimately, there's that access to that love, that universal capacity to see that, you know we're all that human, the humanity beyond what it is we were previously blaming or judging or defending.
00:43:47.970 --> 00:43:58.559 Gareth Gwyn: So those are some of the patterns that we see happen. And through that, like I said, one of the tools we work with is understanding, story telling and narratives that are driving the fundamental belief systems that govern our reality.
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:04.590 Mira Brancu: Yeah, it sounds like. first of all, this takes a lot of vulnerability.
00:44:04.790 --> 00:44:07.310 Mira Brancu: You ha! You have to be willing
00:44:07.980 --> 00:44:12.789 Mira Brancu: to be honest with yourself and with other people, and
00:44:13.140 --> 00:44:15.360 Mira Brancu: that's a lot to ask of some people.
00:44:15.590 --> 00:44:36.889 Mira Brancu: Yes, yes, and II really appreciate you pointing to that, because that also speaks to some of the authentic relating piece that we bring in as well. That's really important. And so that's another tool. That's a really important takeaway that we can use in real time dynamics. Yeah, yeah. So I have a million questions. But we're going to go into an add break first.
00:44:37.080 --> 00:44:46.379 Mira Brancu: and then I'll ask my 1 million questions. Great! You're listening to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mirabranku and our guest, Gareth Gwynn, will be right back after these messages.
00:46:44.970 --> 00:46:50.030 Mira Brancu: welcome back to the hard skills with me, Mira Bronco and our guests, Gareth Gwynn.
00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:52.500 Mira Brancu: I have a million questions.
00:46:52.530 --> 00:46:55.840 Mira Brancu: and I have literally like 2 or 3 min
00:46:55.990 --> 00:47:00.170 Mira Brancu: to extract all of your knowledge. So let's get to it.
00:47:00.610 --> 00:47:08.970 Mira Brancu: So you were talking about some universal experiences. When people go through this work, resistance
00:47:09.180 --> 00:47:15.330 Mira Brancu: make sense. defending their story. Then feeling grieving
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:18.449 Mira Brancu: humility, empathy.
00:47:18.820 --> 00:47:23.120 Mira Brancu: and also perhaps shame all of the feelings, all the feeling
00:47:23.180 --> 00:47:27.309 Mira Brancu: and liberation of courses and liberation liberation. Okay?
00:47:27.380 --> 00:47:39.259 Mira Brancu: And so, boy, does it sound a lot like the Kubler Ross? Grieving model, doesn't it? Letting go so
00:47:39.780 --> 00:47:46.379 Mira Brancu: let's talk just about like the we were saying how it it takes quite a bit of vulnerability
00:47:46.540 --> 00:47:49.520 Mira Brancu: to move into this.
00:47:50.080 --> 00:47:55.360 Mira Brancu: And when you're having some difficult conversations, and especially if they're
00:47:55.580 --> 00:48:03.220 Mira Brancu: about quote unquote, touchy topics, polarizing topics, racism, sexism, all the isms, for example, right?
00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:06.920 Mira Brancu: What?
00:48:07.510 --> 00:48:16.230 Mira Brancu: How do people who have already been in positions of vulnerability? Most of their lives, like people from marginalized backgrounds, right? Who have already faced
00:48:16.240 --> 00:48:27.760 Mira Brancu: racism and you know all the isms right? And they've learned how to protect themselves smartly. So right
00:48:27.900 --> 00:48:38.789 Mira Brancu: to now lean into these conversations in a different way, and still allow themselves to be vulnerable, but perhaps in a different way. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that.
00:48:39.040 --> 00:49:03.079 Gareth Gwyn: Yeah. Well, I would say, first of all, I think, having the self awareness to know when we have the capacity to engage in a situation versus when we don't, and being willing to say I don't have capacity right now and then returning to the situation when we do. If we feel like it, I think that's part of it as well. And the other thing I'll say is you. You mentioned the distinction between maybe showing up in a different type of vulnerability.
00:49:03.080 --> 00:49:15.849 Gareth Gwyn: and I think one aspect of that is recognizing what that that vulnerability is ultimately for us. Now the by product is that it often very much helps other people and inspires them.
00:49:15.910 --> 00:49:30.269 Gareth Gwyn: But the liberation and the the vulnerability, and and our capacity to and expression of that is for our own freedom. It's for our own full expression of living a life where we have more access to expression and joy.
00:49:30.390 --> 00:49:43.339 Gareth Gwyn: And so, maybe just shifting that kind of where's the motivation coming from. And if it's the kind of vulnerability where we're really facing a new part of ourself and and on our growth edge. Most often we do feel a sense of
00:49:43.620 --> 00:50:06.679 Gareth Gwyn: energy, it becomes energizing and not exhausting. So I think that's one way to maybe begin to tell as an indicator it what kind of vulnerability we're in if we're in the exhaust, exhausting side of it. Maybe it's not quite on that liberatory vulnerability. And it's more in the reactive piece. I really am resonating
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:10.350 Mira Brancu: with this idea that it's in service
00:50:10.640 --> 00:50:18.290 Mira Brancu: to yourself and your desire for that feeling
00:50:18.350 --> 00:50:21.010 Mira Brancu: of liberation or letting go
00:50:21.040 --> 00:50:32.209 Mira Brancu: of things that have been unhelpful and harmful, you know, in the past to you. But it's in service to self, because going back to the emotional labor. It's when we're trying to.
00:50:32.410 --> 00:50:49.419 Mira Brancu: you know, be vulnerable for other people. But it's not in service to ourselves necessarily. That's when it gets exhausting and we get resentful, you know, and and and makes sense. Now, one last question.
00:50:49.790 --> 00:50:57.330 Mira Brancu: When people start feeling the feelings right, the the feelings that they did not want to feel
00:50:57.610 --> 00:51:08.600 Mira Brancu: right. And that's not humiliating and empathy, which usually feels okay. But the shame feels bad, and the shame causes people to go back to resistance, doesn't it? So I'm wondering, like, what?
00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:10.599 Mira Brancu: How you keep people
00:51:10.870 --> 00:51:14.180 Mira Brancu: from going right back to their usual.
00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:19.880 Mira Brancu: No, I'm gonna shut this down. This feels really bad. I feel like a bad person, you know that kind of thing.
00:51:19.910 --> 00:51:23.329 Gareth Gwyn: So this is one reason why we do this work in community.
00:51:23.380 --> 00:51:36.140 Gareth Gwyn: So we like to work with teams or groups of people, because we, when we go into shame to have other people offer reflections of love. If we don't have in that moment the access to self love.
00:51:36.140 --> 00:52:00.160 Gareth Gwyn: Then other people, reflecting that love back can help us access that love ourselves. And so, instead of going off into like a shame loop where it's we can get out of control. We're able to kind of break that cycle and use each other in community and reflection, to actually learn the frequencies of love, the access of love, the the the ways we can find that. And then ultimately.
00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:28.259 Gareth Gwyn: we, we encourage people to be able to do that themselves, to find self love and and halt their own shame loops. But that journey often does need community support, and so, being able to reflect that and empathize with each other as we're in those really difficult moments is important, and being able to reach out and say, Hey, I need support. I need help, you know, cause we are interdependent as humans. And so I think that's where the community keep piece comes really into play. Yeah. And I appreciate that also, because
00:52:28.470 --> 00:52:32.300 Mira Brancu: shame often comes from
00:52:32.470 --> 00:52:35.890 Mira Brancu: the negative and harmful societal messages
00:52:36.120 --> 00:52:38.830 Mira Brancu: and the stories that we've told ourselves
00:52:39.130 --> 00:52:40.380 Mira Brancu: about
00:52:40.450 --> 00:52:46.759 Mira Brancu: our actions, our beliefs, our feelings. And if you could find a community that helps you break
00:52:47.090 --> 00:52:50.029 Mira Brancu: this experience of
00:52:50.380 --> 00:53:03.629 Mira Brancu: feeling like you're a bad person for having a feeling right or finding another way to think about how to lean into these difficult conversations. But in a supportive way it is
00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:18.140 Mira Brancu: quite transformational. Yes, yes. And then we can actually begin to have the openness to, to get curious about it and say, Oh, is shame! An indicator that I'm believing about something about myself that might not be true.
00:53:18.230 --> 00:53:27.970 Gareth Gwyn: Oh, okay, well, what is true, you know, and so that there's a there's an openness there where curiosity can come back in a little bit instead of being trapped in that.
00:53:28.230 --> 00:53:39.239 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. So, Gareth, out of all of the things that you shared. It's a lot there. What is the one thing that you would like people to take away from today?
00:53:40.370 --> 00:54:03.330 Gareth Gwyn: I would like people to take away the possibility that they can be a part of non-polarizing leadership, liberated leadership from wherever they are, whenever they are, that every single human has access to it. And it's our willingness that we can turn on inside to be able to step into like. What you said earlier is a really hard journey, but it's ultimately very rewarding, and everybody can do it from wherever they are.
00:54:06.180 --> 00:54:12.469 Mira Brancu: Yes, absolutely. And so where can people find you?
00:54:13.430 --> 00:54:41.429 Gareth Gwyn: People can find up more about the leadership development programs that we have at. Let's see, labs.com. That's let's see, like, let's see what happens. Let's see each other. And let's see these short films that offer us examples of this kind of leadership. So that's let's see, labs.com. And my book. You are us how to build bridges in a polarized world is also there's links to that on there as well. So you can sign up to connect with one of our facilitators or get the book and read more of these stories and learn more about this approach to leadership.
00:54:41.610 --> 00:54:57.540 Mira Brancu: Awesome and for those of you who are watching the live or later recorded version. Here is a little bit about let's see, Labscom, I'm showing you this gorgeous website
00:54:57.710 --> 00:55:06.260 Mira Brancu: in and of itself, you just visit because it's a beautiful website. But you can find out all about the programs and
00:55:06.320 --> 00:55:12.309 Mira Brancu: what you can learn. There's a lot of resources here. So thank you for sharing that the
00:55:12.690 --> 00:55:22.470 Mira Brancu: the takeaway for me. because I want to sort of bring this back to leadership. I think a lot of people don't recognize like, what does this have to do with leadership, development.
00:55:22.520 --> 00:55:28.930 Mira Brancu: everything I mean leadership, development. I keep saying this all the time. But leadership. Development is personal development
00:55:29.710 --> 00:55:31.350 Mira Brancu: and personal development
00:55:32.160 --> 00:55:35.599 Mira Brancu: can turn you into a leader in all spaces
00:55:35.660 --> 00:55:38.569 Mira Brancu: you have to. You do not have to
00:55:38.580 --> 00:55:50.549 Mira Brancu: hold an official position of power or or authority in an organization to be a leader in other people's eyes, and being able to
00:55:50.670 --> 00:55:52.929 Mira Brancu: experience this process.
00:55:53.000 --> 00:56:07.410 Mira Brancu: will help you become a more sort of influential agent of change, because you understand yourself well enough to know how to
00:56:07.560 --> 00:56:10.459 Mira Brancu: be in the world with others. Right?
00:56:10.590 --> 00:56:24.029 Mira Brancu: Very well said, yes, II resonate deeply with that. So, audience, what did you take away? And, more importantly, what is one small change that you can implement this week, based on what you learned from Gareth.
00:56:24.080 --> 00:56:31.890 Mira Brancu: Share it with us on Linkedin, at Mirabu or Gareth Gwin, and at Talk, radio Nyc. Where we could cheer you on
00:56:32.030 --> 00:56:42.249 Mira Brancu: we're also on Facebook, Instagram Twitter twitch all over the place, but I live on Linkedin. I think Garrett does, too. So come, visit us there.
00:56:42.370 --> 00:56:51.780 Mira Brancu: We are also on itunes and spotify. Please go, subscribe to our podcast leave a review, share with others, to increase our visibility and reach
00:56:51.930 --> 00:57:04.799 Mira Brancu: and look for more information about our upcoming towerscope Leadership Academy, which opens again in 2,024. We're gonna open up applications very soon. Do not miss it.
00:57:05.520 --> 00:57:34.630 Mira Brancu: In this episode we describe one of many aspects that we'll be talking about in developing the nuance hard skills needed to become an exceptional leader who can drive significant systemic change, make real impact. So visit us@gotowerscope.com. If you're interested. Thank you to talkradio dot Nyc. For hosting. I'm Dr. Mirabanku, your host of the hard skills. And this was our guest, Gareth Gwynn, have a great rest of your day, wherever you're coming in calling in from
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